This is what we have to deal with

[H0wardmoon]

I should start by saying that I'm not a transgendered person, but I think that transgendered people are often victims of a certain subset of homophobia that is particularly vicious precisely because they challenge gender roles.

There has been a major case in Canada involving David Russell Williams, an air force colonel who has been found guilty of murder and horrible sex crimes. The crimes are too awful to detail here.

However, the Canadian media have focused on one lurid aspect of the case: Williams liked to wear women's underwear, some of which he stole in break-ins. The pictures of the colonel in women's underwear have been plastered over the newspapers. (One had the headline "PERVERT RAPIST MURDERER")

Now, Williams is not transgender, and no one is suggesting he is. However, I find it troubling that this is the one aspect about this that people are focusing on. I can just imagine it: "he was a killer, but what's worse is he wore women's clothing!"

Am I overreacting here? Transgender (or even str8 crossdressers) have to deal with enough crap without having to deal with this.

[DuckiesDarling]

Howard, I read an article on that Canadian "serial killer" and it seems to me they focused more on his crimes while there was a mention of having pictures of himself posing in a girl's underwear it didn't come off to me as being the focus.

He murdered two people and raped more while taking pictures. All while being a member of the Canadian military and discharging his duties with valor.

Sometimes reading the news is very depressing but in this instance I don't think they are playing the crossdressing card as much as outlining the various things he did. For him it wasn't about dressing in girl's underwear, it was him remembering what he did to that girl. That's not a gender thing that's a pure recollection while stroking his trophy from the crime.

[H0wardmoon]

Howard, I read an article on that Canadian "serial killer" and it seems to me they focused more on his crimes while there was a mention of having pictures of himself posing in a girl's underwear it didn't come off to me as being the focus.

He murdered two people and raped more while taking pictures. All while being a member of the Canadian military and discharging his duties with valor.

Sometimes reading the news is very depressing but in this instance I don't think they are playing the crossdressing card as much as outlining the various things he did. For him it wasn't about dressing in girl's underwear, it was him remembering what he did to that girl. That's not a gender thing that's a pure recollection while stroking his trophy from the crime.

Maybe so. However, the front page of both papers put the pictures of him in the underwear right smack on the front page, and TV news reports included the phrase "observers were shocked to hear of him dressing in womens' clothes."

That, to me, is pushing some buttons.

[DuckiesDarling]

Ah, well there is no accounting for journalism in some places. Perhaps they don't feel the crimes themselves are as deserving of a front page as the sensational fact he had pics in the underwear? Sometimes it's all about what sells more papers :(

What's the max penalty he can get in Canada anyway? Here, depending on what state he committed the crimes in, he could face the death penalty.

[BfloBiFun]

I agree, sell more papers . . . I do crossdress & do go out in public at times (see my profile), I also do not consider myself a TG person. But do enjoy the total reversal of roles and the fem experience, I meet with other CD'ers & TG people. 90% are "normal" working upstanding people. Its to bad this shit-stick wacko did what he did and the media had to put the panties in the forefront. I don't want people looking at me and think that I'm anything like that, but people like to stereotype and news articles like this do not help . . . . . Thanks for bring attention to this !!

[H0wardmoon]

^This.^

The guy killed people and did horrible things to them.

He's not a martyr or victim of any sort of homophobia, transphobia, or hatred of cross dressing so why paint him as one?

Because if the only people that are presented as crossdressers are misogynist murderers, it affects how other crossdressers and trans people are perceived.

Remember Silence Of The Lambs? Dressed To Kill? The notion of the crossdresser as woman-hating killer goes way back.

You're right, he's not a martyr for these things. So why did the media feel the need to emphasize the images of him in women's clothing, as if that was the worse crime? Why not simply show him in his military uniform?



It is too bad that Canada does not have the death penalty anymore. People like this guy should not be allowed to sit and rot in a prison cell for the rest of their natural lives.

There's a very good reason we don't have the death penalty in Canada: Innocent people have been convicted.

[Long Duck Dong]

in the eyes of the public, they will see a person with a twisted mindset that has killed and that will be the main aspect, the secondary aspect is he wore females clothing but that he would break in to places to get them......

that alone would seperate him from the tg / cross dressers of the world..... as the crimes would outweigh the wearing of clothing...

with tg / cross dressers the main aspect is the wearing of females clothing ( wearing of male clothing is accepted more )

so using the pics of him in females clothing adds to the * omg, sick and twisted person * value....and encourages more of a public reaction... and that in effect creates a barrier between him and the tg / cd community.....

unless you have people that just want any excuse to hate tg/ cd...and will use this as a reason to further that hatred......

[H0wardmoon]

in the eyes of the public, they will see a person with a twisted mindset that has killed and that will be the main aspect, the secondary aspect is he wore females clothing but that he would break in to places to get them......

that alone would seperate him from the tg / cross dressers of the world..... as the crimes would outweigh the wearing of clothing...

with tg / cross dressers the main aspect is the wearing of females clothing ( wearing of male clothing is accepted more )

so using the pics of him in females clothing adds to the * omg, sick and twisted person * value....and encourages more of a public reaction... and that in effect creates a barrier between him and the tg / cd community.....

unless you have people that just want any excuse to hate tg/ cd...and will use this as a reason to further that hatred......

I should point out that the main paper in question is a conservative law-n'-order tabloid.

But I did a google search and the phrase "crossdressing" came up in many of the articles. To be fair, many others didn't mention it all, but that only begs the question of why make it a part of the coverage, other than to play on people's discomfort with crossdressing?

[tenni]

hmm
Today, Vic Toews, MP, minister of Public Safety, was talking on the CBCnewsworld. The language that he chose to use to describe how the media was covering this trial was telling and yet a bit unclear. He made negative vague references to how desplicable the acts were. Yesterday, images of Williams in women's clothing was widely distributed. However, information about what he had been doing with women's clothing and how he obtained it had been previously released. I am inclined to think that the disturbing part for many of us was about how he stole women's and young girls clothing from clotheslines and home invasions. Yesterday's reference to the fact that he meticulously photographed himself and documented in a very high degree of organization was pointed out. Both the police detective and Toews made vague references to how the public needed to learn about the evil that is within our society. Both left it vague if it was the cross dressing, fetish theft of women's clothing, or brutal murders were the "evil" in our society.

I also wondered about the reference to cross dressing if that was the evil. I'm not sure but I can understand your concern. However, he did do these things in combination rather than isolation. The shock factor is his position within the military and that he killed a woman soldier by rape, degradation and photography/video taping her. The fact that he broke into people's homes and violated their safety by stealing these women's clothing for many many months without being caught.

I don't know how you can present cross dressing in a positive manner to the mainstream society. He did look ridiculous with his rather masculine body in far too small women's teddy. I'm not sure that the media is emphasizing the cross dressing but those are the visual images presented.

[Long Duck Dong]

I should point out that the main paper in question is a conservative law-n'-order tabloid.

But I did a google search and the phrase "crossdressing" came up in many of the articles. To be fair, many others didn't mention it all, but that only begs the question of why make it a part of the coverage, other than to play on people's discomfort with crossdressing?

shock factor.... it makes the crimes appear more vile...and the guy to be a seriously sexually twisted and demented pervert.....

to vanilla people.... this guy will stand out more than someone that is a plain and simple serial killer.... cos of the female clothing aspect....

while it can be argued that showing the guy wearing the clothing, shows the seriousness of the crimes..... wearing female clothing is not a crime..... the breaking and entering is..... so they use the female clothing as a motive for the break ins..... and you get a person that is so obsessed with female clothing that he breaks into places, to steal them, wear them and get a sexual thrill.......


based around what I have read, hes not sociopathic, nor psychopathic... he is emotionally devoid and very frustrated by that aspect in his life....
while he is extremely intelligent and military minded, he lacks the ability to socially interrelate with people....
the breaking and entering is not sexually motived, its a form of expression within himself, it makes sense to him.... and its like a separate aspect of himself from the man the public sees.....
he breaks into homes and takes the photographs of him in the clothing, as a way of expressing that hidden aspect of himself, then returns to his * normal * life.. the pictures are like trophies.... memories of the event in a sense.... of a life he can not live.....

the killings too, are not sexually motived, tho there is a sexual element to the over all picture, its not the primary factor to him.... only to the public....
again it comes down to the hidden aspect of himself and the emotional retardation.........
the public will see the sexual aspect as the motivation and the prosecution will play that aspect to the hilt, relying on the jurys lack of understanding......

the rape, binding and torture is a form of seeking answers in himself, as to why and how he is not able to interrelate.....
in the military, him seeking counselling would be pretty much be a death sentence to his position and career... so it would have not been a option for him......

in a sense, the military helped create the killer that the public now sees...... and if he was not in the military and in such a high position, its possible this may have never happened.... or it could have been a lot worse......

how do I know this.... well, I have dysthimia, which is a form of depression, the majority of dysthimia is identical to sociopathic tendacies..... and I have a background in counselling and therapy, I am ex military...... and I have a long running interest in sociopaths, pychopaths, serial killers and the clinic studies and reports........

in simply terms, I have a better understanding of serial killers as I can think and feel the way they do.. and it makes far more sense to me, than a emotionally full ranged person that has studied at uni and is a advanced expert....... and the key difference is I have no emotions cos of the dysthimia..... thats not something you can teach to anybody....

so yes my reaction to the guy is cold, clinical and understanding....... but I do not excuse his actions or behievour...and yes send him to trial to be judged by a jury of his peers...... regardless of mental and emotional states of mind, he committed criminal acts..... and be judged according to them..... not according to public opinion

[tenni]

"this guy will stand out more than someone that is a plain and simple serial killer.... cos of the female clothing aspect...."


Within Canada, that statement is false. He is standing out because:
a/ he brutally murdered two women while being the top commander on a military base. The military, itself, is feeling a great deal of pressure as to how this type of person might reach such a high ranking and not be detected. The military has stated that they will quickly remove him from the military. Aspects about removing any chance of receiving a military pension have been mentioned in the media but the military has not announced any such plans. There has been some discussion about the shame that he has brought to the military.

b/ he stole the women's clothing from home invasions and off of clotheslines, leaving many people feeling violated and their safety at risk

Connected to this second reason are public statements about "evil" that are not clarified and yes...it does leave the mark on cross dressers in the Canadian media. However, I think due to the vague reference of "evil", it will be the minds of the individuals to determine which is the evil aspect of this case

[Long Duck Dong]

"this guy will stand out more than someone that is a plain and simple serial killer.... cos of the female clothing aspect...."


Within Canada, that statement is partially false. He is standing out:
a/ he brutally murdered two women while being the top commander on a military base
Second reason is
b/ he stole the women's clothing from home invasions and off of clotheslines, leaving many people feeling violated and their safety at risk

Connected to this second reason are public statements about "evil" that are not clarified and yes...it does leave the mark on cross dressers in the Canadian media. However, I think due to the vague reference of "evil", it will be the minds of the individuals to determine which is the evil aspect of this case

I was pointing out the fact that he is not like ted bundy, albert fish, zodiac, wayne gacy....... etc....

the female clothing stands out..... and presents him as a deviant.... so it adds the * shock, horror * aspect.....

military personnal that kill is not as much as a shock horror thing as part of the military role can be to kill......
and the stealing of females clothing off clothelines..... thats a minor offence....
a serial killer is a person that kills 3 or more people over a period of more than 30 days........ so he is not a serial killer.....

so the biggest shock horror factor is the pics....... and so its used to further shock the nation......

[tenni]

"military personnal that kill is not as much as a shock horror thing as part of the military role can be to kill......
and the stealing of females clothing off clothelines..... thats a minor offence....
a serial killer is a person that kills 3 or more people over a period of more than 30 days........ so he is not a serial killer.....

so the biggest shock horror factor is the pics....... and so its used to further shock the nation......"

If I may add, in LDD's "personal" opinion.

From Canadian media reports
1/ the fact that he was a military leader was quite the shock horror reaction in the community where it happened.
2/ stealing of women's clothing was a shock factor that created a general public comment of bizarre and the home invasions created reported tension and confusion in the community where they happened.( a precursor that was known for months before these images were made public the other day)
3/ unlike LDD and perhaps NZ media, no Canadian media report has referred to Williams as a "serial killer" but a report today refers to a Paul Bernardo comparison. Bernardo was a multi rapist murderer sociopath of two young women that he tortured before kiling them. (later during the trial a third was connected when it was reported that both he and his girlfriend raped and "accidentally" killed her 16 year old sister) Both men were very successful at hiding the darker side of their personality and created shock and fear in their communities. Both escalated from a sexual crime to murder. There are similarities and differences. I think that one of the shock factors was the use of video taping the victims but that is not yet generally known widely in the public yet.

Williams does differ substantially from Bernardo in his sexual fetish connection to collecting women's underwear which is connected to a sexual "thrill" of stealing these pieces of women's underwear. It was the thrill of the clothing theft that was his initial excitement. I believe that a psychiatric report was recorded into the trial that he murdered when the sexual thrill of the theft of women's clothing reduced.

I would agree with the OP that it is the sexualized fetish of wearing women's undergarments has been connected to the sensationalizing of this murderer. However, is the OP stating that wearing women's underwear is not a sexual fetish? It may not be for a transgendered person but is it not a sexualized fetish for CD's?

[Long Duck Dong]

"military personnal that kill is not as much as a shock horror thing as part of the military role can be to kill......
and the stealing of females clothing off clothelines..... thats a minor offence....
a serial killer is a person that kills 3 or more people over a period of more than 30 days........ so he is not a serial killer.....

so the biggest shock horror factor is the pics....... and so its used to further shock the nation......"

If I may add, in LDD's "personal" opinion.

From Canadian media reports
1/ the fact that he was a military leader was quite the shock horror reaction in the community where it happened.
2/ stealing of women's clothing was a shock factor that created a general public comment of bizarre and the home invasions created reported tension and confusion in the community where they happened.( a precursor that was known for months before these images were made public the other day)
3/ no media report has referred to Williams as a "serial killer" but a report today refers to a Paul Bernardo comparison. Bernardo was a multi rapist murderer sociopath of two young women that he tortured before kiling. Both men were very successful at hiding the darker side of their personality and created shock and fear in their communities. There are similarities and differences. I think that one of the shock factors was the use of video taping the victims.

Williams does differ substantially in his fetish connection to collecting women's underwear. There is no denying that the brutality and the fetish collecting /theft of women's underwear has caught the eyes of the international media but so has his public role and position in the military. (at least in Canada)

and that has to do exactly what... with the publishing of pics of the guy in females clothing in a newspaper / website......which I am talking about

if you would like to read the original post, that states The pictures of the colonel in women's underwear have been plastered over the newspapers. (One had the headline "PERVERT RAPIST MURDERER")

hence I have been talking about the pics.... pictures...... images... photos... still life...... colour and B/W stills.........

please show me where is the statements you are referring to, are written in the pics.....

[tenni]

I disagree with the OP that up until recently with the release of the photo's that it was still a sensationalized rapist murder case and known to be connected to the stealing of female clothing items had been widely reported. Reports by those at the trial including a police detective and the MP were specifically vague as to what was "evil". The OP did not report which paper used that title but most did not use those words as a headline.

[H0wardmoon]

Yes you are.

DD, LDD, and myself have said how this guy is NOT a CD/TV/Trans person.

He's a human monster and not even close to being a CD/TV/Trans person. Why are you claiming that what he's going through with the tabloids and news papers showing him in underwear is anywhere near Transphobia? He's probably enjoying all of the media attention and like DD said people like this guy see the underwear as a "trophy" from a victim.
[/QUOTE}

Then *why* put it on the front page of the papers? Why refer to him as a "cross-dressing killer?" It seems sensationalist and designed just to play on people's discomfort towards cross-dressing. Several news outlets either downplayed it or didn't mention it at all.

[QUOTE] People like this guy would have been put to death had he been in the United States and tried under our justice system.

The death penalty is a separate issue. I'm against it for a variety of reasons, but the main one being that people who have been innocent of any crime have been condemned to death.

[H0wardmoon]

I disagree with the OP that up until recently with the release of the photo's that it was still a sensationalized rapist murder case and known to be connected to the stealing of female clothing items had been widely reported. Reports by those at the trial including a police detective and the MP were specifically vague as to what was "evil". The OP did not report which paper used that title but most did not use those words as a headline.

Which words? The Canadian Press article yesterday used the following lede:

" In the warrior culture of the new Canadian Forces, it couldn't get much more humiliating.
His crimes were heinous but images of Col. Russell Williams, the confessed murderer, frolicking in women's and girl's underwear added a new, unexpected layer of shame for the straight-laced military community."

http://www.news1130.com/news/national/article/116700--cross-dressing-colonel-to-be-stripped-of-rank-medals-booted-out-of-forces

What the hell does that have to do with the murders?

[H0wardmoon]

I would agree with the OP that it is the sexualized fetish of wearing women's undergarments has been connected to the sensationalizing of this murderer. However, is the OP stating that wearing women's underwear is not a sexual fetish? It may not be for a transgendered person but is it not a sexualized fetish for CD's?


And *what if it was*? How is having a sexual fetish of any relevance to the murders? (The argument is that they were trophies, but again, what does that have to do with the photographs? Again, some new outlets - the CBC for example - managed to do it without referring to those photographs.)

The man committed horrible crimes, but the media seemed more focused on his desire to wear women's clothing. That's my main point.

[tenni]

And *what if it was*? How is having a sexual fetish of any relevance to the murders? (The argument is that they were trophies, but again, what does that have to do with the photographs? Again, some new outlets - the CBC for example - managed to do it without referring to those photographs.)

The man committed horrible crimes, but the media seemed more focused on his desire to wear women's clothing. That's my main point.

As I have already written, most definitely it was pointed out that his sexual fetish had a lot to do with the murders. He was very meticulous about how he stored images of himself in the stolen garments. He kept boxes of stolen clothing. He did this for a long time in at least two locations. It didn't seem to be about just wearing women's clothes but the theft was an important ? part as well. I recall a statement from a psychiatrist that the breaking into houses and stealing women's clothing was losing its sexual appeal and he escalated his behaviour. In one murder he was caught in the house by the woman. It may not have been his intent to murder her but he was caught. His purpose for being in that house was to steal her clothes and switched to rape, beating and murder.

In today's Globe and Mail as well as the Toronto Star, the reports are discussing whether all the graphic details are really needed to be presented as evidence. There is no specific separating the fetish of the clothes and yesterday seemed to be more focused on more vague references to how he brutalized the victims. The statements that the victim's made before being killed was reported.

[tenni]

Which words? The Canadian Press article yesterday used the following lede:

" In the warrior culture of the new Canadian Forces, it couldn't get much more humiliating.
His crimes were heinous but images of Col. Russell Williams, the confessed murderer, frolicking in women's and girl's underwear added a new, unexpected layer of shame for the straight-laced military community."

http://www.news1130.com/news/national/article/116700--cross-dressing-colonel-to-be-stripped-of-rank-medals-booted-out-of-forces

What the hell does that have to do with the murders?

I did check this website. It seems to be a website for a Vancouver based station but I don't know if it is radio, print media or ?

What does it have to do with the murders?
It has to do with the military and that they are ashamed of his behaviour while he is a Colonel who was in charge of a large military base. I must agree that is the most unusual way of describing him.

I will post the National Post live coverage list web page. It goes into details about what this source refers to as "frolicking". I won't write the details except to say that if a man is "sexually aroused" while wearing a 12 year old girl's soiled underwear in her bedroom and he take photos of this as well as a lot of her personal items, I can not understand how you consider this "just cross dressing" and not a disturbing event? He was found guilty of 82 fetish home invasion robberies as well as the two (3) rapes and two murders. Is this what many cross dressers do? I don't think so. Cross dressing is not illegal. What Williams did in an escalating manner is illegal.

http://live.nationalpost.com/Event/Live_coverage_The_sentencing_of_Col_Russell_Willia ms

[Long Duck Dong]

As I have already written, most definitely it was pointed out that his sexual fetish had a lot to do with the murders. He was very meticulous about how he stored images of himself in the stolen garments. He kept boxes of stolen clothing. He did this for a long time in at least two locations. It didn't seem to be about just wearing women's clothes but the theft was an important ? part as well. I recall a statement from a psychiatrist that the breaking into houses and stealing women's clothing was losing its sexual appeal and he escalated his behaviour. In one murder he was caught in the house by the woman. It may not have been his intent to murder her but he was caught. His purpose for being in that house was to steal her clothes and switched to rape, beating and murder.

In today's Globe and Mail as well as the Toronto Star, the reports are discussing whether all the graphic details are really needed to be presented as evidence. There is no specific separating the fetish of the clothes and yesterday seemed to be more focused on more vague references to how he brutalized the victims. The statements that the victim's made before being killed was reported.

his wearing of the underpants is not a sexual fetish........he was not getting sexual gratification from the wearing of the underwear.....

and as for the psychiatrist...... breaking into a house to steal underwear.... and killing a person are two totally different aspects of behievour..... but hey its the media..... and they are dealing with uninformed people......so it will be easy to fool people into believing something far from the truth......

if the trial transcripts become viewable to the general public, there will be experts testifying in court...not psychs making statements to a media, .... and then you will see statements that totally contradict the psych that thinks that wearing underpants will result in people killing others.....

if that statement by the psych was true, then most of the serial killers and murderers in the world are people that wear females under garments and most cross dressers are actually people that have not killed but when the attraction wears off, they will start killing people.....

there is also the aspect of the military training and mindset... but once again, people that have never served, would have no idea what I am talking about.......

[AidanS57]

This guy is a killer. Society wants to see him as deviant in some way because they can't understand why a person would rape and murder someone else, no matter how many times it happens around the world every day. It's just human nature to try and look for a reason that he did it.

[H0wardmoon]

I did check this website. It seems to be a website for a Vancouver based station but I don't know if it is radio, print media or ?

What does it have to do with the murders?
It has to do with the military and that they are ashamed of his behaviour while he is a Colonel who was in charge of a large military base. I must agree that is the most unusual way of describing him.

I will post the National Post live coverage list web page. It goes into details about what this source refers to as "frolicking". I won't write the details except to say that if a man is "sexually aroused" while wearing a 12 year old girl's soiled underwear in her bedroom and he take photos of this as well as a lot of her personal items, I can not understand how you consider this "just cross dressing" and not a disturbing event? He was found guilty of 82 fetish home invasion robberies as well as the two (3) rapes and two murders. Is this what many cross dressers do? I don't think so. Cross dressing is not illegal. What Williams did in an escalating manner is illegal.

http://live.nationalpost.com/Event/Live_coverage_The_sentencing_of_Col_Russell_Willia ms


No, it's not illegal. And that's not the point. I never used the phrase "just cross-dressing." My point was that *why mention the cross-dressing at all*, other than to play to people's prejudices? Is it not disturbing enough to say that he broke into people's houses and sexually assaulted and murdered women? Why make a reference to his cross-dressing, especially in the lede?

And if you looked at the top of the article, you would see that was the Canadian Press article, the equivalent of a UPI or AP article - in other words, the article that most papers and outlets without a reporter there would print. In other words, the national press service thinks it's important to point out the cross-dressing aspect.

I'm not doubting that what he did was different from the average cross-dresser. THAT'S THE POINT. Why dwell on it, then? Why point it out?

[H0wardmoon]

This guy is a killer. Society wants to see him as deviant in some way because they can't understand why a person would rape and murder someone else, no matter how many times it happens around the world every day. It's just human nature to try and look for a reason that he did it.

I understand. I just found it disturbing that they had to focus on this one aspect. The local paper got several letters complaining about the exploitative nature of the front page pictures, and how it was damaging to the victims and their families. I totally agree with that. However, inevitably there was a letter that said that the photos were offensive because they showed a member of the military cross-dressing. Apparently, for the letter writer, it was more disturbing that he wore women's clothing than that he murdered the women in the first place.

[H0wardmoon]

As I have already written, most definitely it was pointed out that his sexual fetish had a lot to do with the murders. He was very meticulous about how he stored images of himself in the stolen garments. He kept boxes of stolen clothing. He did this for a long time in at least two locations. It didn't seem to be about just wearing women's clothes but the theft was an important ? part as well. I recall a statement from a psychiatrist that the breaking into houses and stealing women's clothing was losing its sexual appeal and he escalated his behaviour. In one murder he was caught in the house by the woman. It may not have been his intent to murder her but he was caught. His purpose for being in that house was to steal her clothes and switched to rape, beating and murder.

In today's Globe and Mail as well as the Toronto Star, the reports are discussing whether all the graphic details are really needed to be presented as evidence. There is no specific separating the fetish of the clothes and yesterday seemed to be more focused on more vague references to how he brutalized the victims. The statements that the victim's made before being killed was reported.

So you apparently believe that cross-dressing is a fetish that leads to violence. Good to know.

That is essentially the stereotype that I was trying to point out.