A Date

[Katja]

Earlier this week I had a date with a pretty young girl of 20 who is struggling with herself. The evening went well until the last hour or so when it seemed to me she began to draw into herself and become much quieter and less forthcoming. She touched less and began to avoid my gaze and I had the feeling somewhere down the line I had either wrecked the date somehow or she had decided I wasnt for her.

I walked her up to the railway station and hardly a word passed between us. Just as she climbed into the coach she turned and hugged me, kissed me on the cheek and said thank you for a lovely evening. Nothing said of a second date, nothing of telephoning or speaking again. Not a 'See you soon'. I had blown it somehow. Whether it was something I'd said or did I didn't know, but the feeling of a failed date was very evident.

I like her. I like her a great deal. Whether she feels Im too old for her (at 27) or whether she had decided during the course of the evening that she wasn't ready to same sex date I still don't know.

Imagine my surprise therefore last night when a man and woman came to my home, introduced themselves and warned me to stay away from their daughter. It appears they have plans for her and I would not be allowed to interfere with those plans. I was informed that serious consequences would befall me if I persisted or attempted to contact her. I was furious at their impudence and told them so. I said things in the heat of the moment that probably I should not, but don't like what I perceive to be both an ultimatum and a threat.

I have not spoken to the girl although I have tried to make contact. She has not answered texts or emails so I dont know why or how her parents have acted in what I deem to be a very offhand and unpleasant, quite nasty manner. As far as I was aware, her parents knew nothing of me or the girls struggle with her sexuality, so their visit was a complete surprise. What happened at home and how they found out about me for these events to come to pass I wish I knew, but know nothing.

As I said previously, I like the girl a great deal and would like to see her again. But if it is her choice not to see me then that is something I will regret but have to live with. I've had failed dates before, and no doubt shall again. I do however, want to know she is all right and that it is her choice, and not that of overbearing, prejudiced and domineering parents. What I do not wish to do however, is to make things worse for her than they may already be.

I don't actually have her address so I couldnt go and kick up a stink anyway, although I do know the area in which she lives and it probably wouldn't be that difficult to track her down. The question is whether I should try and find her or just let sleeping dogs lie? I am taking the weekend to think things through before deciding whether or not to proceed.

[DuckiesDarling]

Katja, I feel for you but you need to let this one go. The daughter is struggling with her sexuality and it seems as though on the date that she decided she wasn't ready for same sex dating or maybe that she wasn't ready for you. You didn't mention how you got to go on a date in the first place, but if she was furtive in setting up and keeping the date, then chances are her parents had not a clue her date was with another woman.

I think her parents were in the wrong to come to your home and threaten you but you don't know what if anything the daughter said about you to them. Sometimes it's easier for parents to look for someone to blame when something is going on with a child than face up to the fact that their perfect child doesn't always conform to their plans.

Give it time, if it's meant to be she will contact you again, but do not leave yourself open to legal repercussions by continuing to attempt contact when you do not know exactly what has happened and who is really recieving the communications.

[Realist]

I see a possibility of several controlling pressures being exerted on your date, here.

For one, it's obvious that her parents are a strict, dominating factor in her life and, like many parents, they probably think they know what is best for her. (More than likely, completely unconcerned about what the girl wants for herself. Her entire life may have been planned for her, at birth!)

Two, because of the pressure she feels from her parents, she can be torn between her desires to date you and her loyalty to them. She may even be afraid of what they will do to her if she doesn't conform to their wishes. I know that sometimes parents brain-wash, intimidate, and cajole, their children. If they fail to do their bidding, the child can expect dire retributions.

I agree with DD, if the girl really wants to see you and, if she chooses to go against her parent's directions, she will contact you. She might have to wait until the heat is off her, first.

Patience would certainly be a virtue, here. Who knows what pressures her parents will exert on her, if she attempts to see you again, or you persist in trying to contact their daughter? How her family will react, if this continues?

You should do what you feel is best for you. But, if you step back and look at the over-all picture, you may see that you could cause irreparable damage, to any possible future with this girl, if you act now.

Best of luck to you, no matter what you decide.

[quietbi]

Hi Katya, what an awful experience with the parents and I agree it is better to do nothing as it clearly looks a volatile situation.

I think the clue is nothing to do with anything you have done but with her relationship with her parents. You say they have plans for her and you are not to interfere and that if you do there will be serious consequences suggests to me she may be from a culture of the arranged marriage.

As your date is of legal age the parents' action amount to intimidation and possibly towards your date too. As it also looks this was your only date and you do not know how your address was obtained I would suggest that you seek legal advice or that of your local police.

For me the more important issue is your privacy has been violated and you have been threatened at your home and if your date is still being questioned by her parents you could get another visit even doing nothing.

Hope it works out okay, you never know she may come back to you but it would be a long term hornets nest.

[darkeyes]

I think the advice you have received so far is pretty sound Kat hun.. I think you know that yourself by your statement that you don't want to make things worse for her.. I too would seethe just as you have and rage at the parents, but in the end it is she who must make any move. Since it seems to have been a first date and you know so little of her circumstances. I must admit the thought of marriage did enter my head, but where you live is hardly a hotbed of Islamic fundamentalism so the thought of an arranged marriage did not. The actions of her parents seem as much to me to be the actions of Nob parents (something of which I do have experience having had a nob mother in law and mixed in nob circles once a long time ago) as do the kind of things you claim they have said... as they ever are of immigrant parents... But if she is engaged then that is a problem she will have to resolve for herself considering her probable struggle with herself abd obviously her upbringing. But there may be other things of which you are unaware, so for now I think it best you just write it off (much as it goes against the grain to say so) as a busted flush.. for now..

.. but from what you say she seems to be reasonably local.. so who knows who u will bump into as u drive around the lanes of the Lakes...);)

[Realist]

I was and, have known a few others, who's whole life was planned for them by the time they were born. I'm not saying that this girl's in the same situation, but it does appear that she is under her family's thumb.

Until the day I finally broke away from my family's grip, I was expected to follow a set pattern and focus on their plans for me. My opinions, interests, or aptitudes, had nothing to do with the goals they made for me. I was never asked what I wanted to do with my life. Even though neither of my parents were from societies where arranged marriages were prevalent, they had often talked of picking out the GIRL they thought I should marry.

Even today, some time after they both died, I shudder at the thought of them finding out I was bisexual!

If this girl is in a similar situation, she may be ill-prepared for a loving relationship with anyone....much less someone of the same gender.

[Katja]

Thank you for your advice and comments all. I remain angry but am more concerned about her well being than any slight or hurt which I may feel. The last thing I want is for her to be in trouble with family on my account. Yet it seems to be.

I know what it is like to be ostracised from family. It is not something I wish for anyone. Many of the thoughts you have expressed between you have been in my mind also. She is not from a culture where arranged marriages are common. She is, like me, a girl who is privately educated and from a well to do family. A 'Nob' family if you like, darkeyes, as I am myself.

I know she had recently ended a relationship with a boy, although this may have been a smokescreen, and actually be a lot of tosh. She seemed genuine, and very nice if a little lacking in confidence. Having met the parents, I do understand why this would be the case. Well to do families often have plans for their daughters which have nothing to do with marriage, but often marriage between a daughter and a long standing well connected boy friend approved of and supplied by the family from within its circle of friends is expected. Darkeyes from her personnal history will know of this phenomenon also. Whether that is the case I am unable to say. I do know there was no tell tale sign on her wedding finger.

For your information DD, although I don't think it particularly relevant, we met on a sponsored walk over the Cumbrian fells and somehow she stuck to me like glue. We walked for 12 miles over the fells talking of many things, including at one point being open enough to tell me about questioning her own sexuality in response to a remark I made about my own life. It was her determination stay with me, as well as the fact I found her very good company and liked her a great deal, and that little while we discussed sexuality which made me pluck up the courage to ask her out.

I liked and like her but will not wait around in false hope. We hardly know each other, but I did get to know her well enough to know I wish no harm and unhappiness to come her way. It is that and that alone which makes me want to know she is well, but equally I am all too aware what any unwelcome intrusion by me could mean.

[Darkside2009]

If her parents came to your home then obviously the girl has your address and will no doubt get in touch once the furore has died down.

The situation does seem rather odd though. I could understand the parents having a row with the daughter but it seems rather excessive to come to your home and threaten you.

Was she so late returning home that they thought something had happened to her? As you stated you walked her to the train, I'm assuming the time wasn't too late.

She obviously told them something for them to react in this manner, she could just have said she was visiting a girlfriend and missed the earlier bus or train. My guess is she must have arrived home in a distraught strait, that has led to the questioning and the garnering of the information as to where you lived.

You mentioned that she seemed more subdued as the evening progressed and perhaps she has settled in her own mind these doubts she was having over her sexuality. That may be why she has not arranged a further meeting with you. Once alone in the train carriage, guilt and remorse may have set in, so that once she arrived home she was in a tearful state that has provoked this reaction from the parents.

I would let her contact you, rather than you trying to contact her. You might not get an explanation or a call from her, if so just chalk it up as another experience.

[Katja]

If her parents came to your home then obviously the girl has your address and will no doubt get in touch once the furore has died down.

The situation does seem rather odd though. I could understand the parents having a row with the daughter but it seems rather excessive to come to your home and threaten you.

Was she so late returning home that they thought something had happened to her? As you stated you walked her to the train, I'm assuming the time wasn't too late.

She obviously told them something for them to react in this manner, she could just have said she was visiting a girlfriend and missed the earlier bus or train. My guess is she must have arrived home in a distraught strait, that has led to the questioning and the garnering of the information as to where you lived.

You mentioned that she seemed more subdued as the evening progressed and perhaps she has settled in her own mind these doubts she was having over her sexuality. That may be why she has not arranged a further meeting with you. Once alone in the train carriage, guilt and remorse may have set in, so that once she arrived home she was in a tearful state that has provoked this reaction from the parents.

I would let her contact you, rather than you trying to contact her. You might not get an explanation or a call from her, if so just chalk it up as another experience.

When I began opening up for business this morning I found a hand written note. We were spotted apparently, with me stroking her hair. Two and two was put together and I suppose the right answer thrown up. There wasnt much more information except to say she was sorry, for what wasn't made clear. I was also asked not to try and make contact, and nothing was said about her contacting me.

At first I wasn't sure it was a parental trick or done under duress but there was a very pretty photograph and of all things a Scottish pound note inside the envelope and I don't know at all what to make of that. Am I being told something? Your guess is as good as mine. Or is she simply playing games with my head?

[DB Forever]

Katja you are in a tough situation. Be careful about how you proceed from here, unless you are ready to take on the girl's parents. It is clear that the girl wants to be with you but her parents are preventing any association. It is also clear that you and the girl recognize the connection that you have. As others have said to you, I think you should follow your heart, but go with your eyes open and recognize the problems ahead.

DB

[Darkside2009]

Intriguing, I would say the letter is from her rather than her parents. I do not think you will hear from them again unless you try to contact her.

She is obviously embarrassed at the actions of her parents and the letter is by way of apology. The photo would be from her and not her parents, the parents would not have included a photo as it might have encouraged you to contact her again. I would think she means the photo as a fond memento of the time you had together and I would take it as such.

As to the pound note, as far as I'm aware, pound notes are no longer legal tender throughout the UK, perhaps it has an intrinsic value in itself. I would surmise that fewer Scottish notes were printed than English notes and this might have increased its value. You would need to contact a business specialising in rare coins and notes to find out.

If she is not Scottish herself it might be her quirky way of having you remember her, she is very young after all. Most English people would not carry outdated, Scottish money in their purse or wallet, unless it had some sentimental value to them.

I wouldn't take it as some kind of rebuff or payment for services received, I would just accept it as a memento from an awkward young woman, with little or no experience of life.

Look at it this way, at least you won't forget her. She obviously knows how to get in touch with you if she wishes, I'd just chalk it up to another experience, part of Life's rich tapestry and move on.

[sammie19]

The Royal Bank of Scotland still produces some pound notes but are the only Scottish bank to continue this practice, but not nearly in the numbers of once upon a time. I have one in my purse whiich was given to me as change in Greggs yesterday and it is as spendable now as they ever were.

I have no idea what is in the girl's mind Katja, and won't try and second guess her. She does intend something, but Darkside may be right that she has sent you momentoes. That is a suprising thing for a someone to do after a first date however it turned out. I think the fact that she has made an effort to contact you and has sent you the pic and pound tells me you made a bigger hit with her than you think. What she intends to do about it I won't second guess that either but don't be surprised if she pops up when you least expect it. :) One thing just entered my head. Her parents know you home address, but I don't think they do your work address. Hence the note. I find that thought a little intriguing. I hope for your sake they never find out either.

But if she does appear from nowhere, and you do pick up where you left off and form some kind of relationship, expect a rough ride cos I think her parents will give you it. How tough are you?

[Bicuriousity]

I am sorry to hear you went through this. I had pretty strict parents growing up as well but could never imagine them going to the house of someone i dated and telling them to stay away.

What an awkward and uncomfortable situation to put you in.

Unfortunately i fear this youn women will struggle from issues that her overbearing parents create for her.

[Katja]

I am sorry to hear you went through this. I had pretty strict parents growing up as well but could never imagine them going to the house of someone i dated and telling them to stay away.

What an awkward and uncomfortable situation to put you in.

Unfortunately i fear this youn women will struggle from issues that her overbearing parents create for her.

I fear you are right. She will suffer the same angst and self hatred I have had to endure. Thinking about her situation, it may be that very vulnerability which attracts me with the added desire of helping her avoid that fate which we both dread. Until such times as we can meet again there is nothing I can do. That unfortunately, is in the lap of the Gods.

[gooniegoogoo]

Her parents have probably threatened her as well and given her an ultimatum. Maybe even stuff like disowning, bla bla. Give it some time, maybe you'll see her again, but you can't force this one.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Ok..I'm confused. Was the picture taken with your knowledge, or was it one taken from afar, and from someone you Didnt know? And I dont get the significance of the pound. Was that to reimburse you for the date, or what? And I would have been Furious to have someone show up at my door to tell me to back off. I hope you explained that it was just a coffee date/dinner for two new friends to get to know each other?
I dont know what to tell ya, Girlfriend, but I would just wait and see how things unfold. I'm still just slightly baffled at the money thing...
Good luck Hon
Cat

[Katja]

The photograph was of her, not me, Cherokee. Its a very nice photograph and the more I look at it the more I see a sadness in the eyes. I had a friend stay over last night who thought it my imagination and that may be so.

What the significance of the pound note is I have no idea. That it means something I have no doubt, but what? My friend joked that it is payment for a kiss. If that's the case she has paid over the odds since it was me who was kissed on the cheek.

I do agree with gooniegoogoo that she may have had an ultimatum and even threatened with worse. It happened to me and my background is similar to hers. I was much older when these things happened and better able to handle it. Disowning is extremely unpleasant for we are suddenly cut off from most of what and who we have known and loved all of our lives. I was lucky as I had my own means to survive, my own home and a reasonably successful business which pays the bills and better. At 20 most of us are much less resistant to parental pressure since we do not have the experience of life, the confidence in ourselves, and the resources to suddenly be cast adrift.

I have decided to leave well alone which I think is best and in everyone's interests. If at some future time she makes contact then will be the time to assess what I do. It may be that my life is so changed that I will not be interested in her as a potential partner or girl friend, but if help and advice is needed, I shall be there to provide that at the very least.

[Darkside2009]

Sigh! If that is the going rate for kisses these days, it seems I'm destined for the 'Poor House' lol

Can anyone lend me a fiver until pay-day? lol

[Katja]

I was in Lancaster a few days ago on a date. Sitting in a pub awaiting the arrival of my date, the 'Pound Note Girl' as I have come to think of her entered with a guy about her own age and sat at the other end of the bar whispering quietly and it was obvious they were romantically linked. How seriously is anyone's guess.

We didnt speak, although we did nod to each other across the pub, mouthed a 'hello' and exchanged smiles. My date arrived within a few minutes and we too were soon busy in chat, but as we talked my eyes kept drifting over to where the couple were sat. It was difficult not to notice that she too was doing quite the same thing and several times our eyes met and were held for a moment longer than were we total strangers.

Unfortunately I did not get the opportunity to speak to her because in the first instance I did not wish to embarrass her in any way and in the second there was my own date to consider, but they left before I had the opportunity of doing so in any case. My date glanced up at them as they left but thankfully no hint of recognition came from either and I was quite sure they did not know each other

The interesting thing was that she dressed like a student, was wearing a university top and carrying what were obviously her course paraphernalia. I had not been aware she was a student for she had never said, but should have realised it by the way she spoke and her family background, but it never come up nor did it even enter my head.

Now I know where she is, I do not intend to pursue her, but was glad to see that she was looking well and hope, that if my own relationship continues, that we shall bump into each other again and am able to satisfy my curiosity about this damnable mystery of the Scottish pound note.

[elian]

Hello Kat,

I remember being very, very confused and frustrated at first about my sexuality vs. pressure from society and parents. When I first started dating guys (in my 30's even) I travelled a long way to meet the first one and as we were driving down the road he looked at me and said "What's wrong?" I was sad because I had just realized that for the first time I was happy about a relationship, and secondly - that I was a very, very long way from home and couldn't stay with him.

Your friend probably feels intense pressure about her sexuality, expectations from her parents, pressure from school.

Although it may not seem fair, if she is still at home with her parents give her time to grow into her own person. Hopefully she can be independent. If she gets her own place and establishes her own life then maybe some day she'll be more willing to pursue whatever feelings she does have. If I knew what didn't know when I was 20...and I'm still learning, it never stops.

If you ever do speak with her again I would reassure her that she is a good person no matter what she chooses to do, a lot of "teens" ought to know that they are loved no matter what. I know it can hurt if you genuinely have feelings for someone but it sounds like she needs a friend more than a lover at this point. In time let's hope that she finds her way.

At least you gave her the opportunity to have a nice date with a friendly person.

-E

[Long Duck Dong]

lol a love story..... lol..... thanks for updating this, katja....... it makes a change to read something that has a air of mystery and intrigue.......
and I am looking forward to one day, learning the mystery of the one pound note myself lol

[Katja]

A love story is perhaps a little bit strong, LDD but it is a mystery which I do think may be solved by Tuesday. A friend of hers called in to the shop yesterday and gave me her mobile number with a message to call her on Tuesday. Curiouser and curiouser.

[Katja]

Last night I drove down to Lancaster to meet my girlfriend. We weren't due to meet till 7.30, but I drove down early to have a drink with and meet with the 'pound note girl'. I had telephoned as she requested, but she evaded my question about the note. We arranged to meet because I was down there the following day and spent a nice hour and a half chatting and finding out a little more about each other.

She apologised for the third time about her parents and I waved away the apologies telling her that it was history and it is best to look forward and not dwell on what has gone before. The previous evening on the phone she had evaded my question about the Scottish pound note, and I pressed her and she laughed a little nervously and finally relented.

'It's a bit like me' she said 'it is fake. I am a fake.' She carried on to say that she had a number of counterfeit notes and that was her way of telling me that she was not all she seemed. I knew that from our limited experience of each other but it had never entered my head to check whether the note was genuine even although I do have equipment at the shop which can determine whether or not it was counterfeit. What she was trying to tell me was that she likes and is attracted to women, likes and is attracted to me, but could never in a million years become serious with one. When they get close she clams up and becomes a shrinking violet. The more she spoke the less genuine she seemed to become.

Finally I became somewhat irate and said 'So you were fucking using me? You're a fucking tease?' Looking pensive, nervous and quiet for a moment she looked up and said 'Yes, but no too.' She claimed she was using me as she does every girl she dates to try and break down her barriers, explore and discover herself but that it has never worked and that it will never work. She far too inhibited to let herself go.

The more she talked the more irritable I became. Finally I'd had enough and stopped her speaking and said quietly. 'Darling, you have problems. When you begin to deal with those problems get in touch. Until then stay away. One of these days some girl is going to be less nice than me, and ruin that pretty face. Come to terms with yourself and stop fucking using other people.'

So the mystery is solved. The mystery of a young girl who like so many others is mixed up, emotionally unstable, scared and will try and conform to the prevalent view of the world. It will be interesting to see what kind of person she turns out to be in a decade or so. I suspect she will leave a trail of debris behind throughout her life unless she can come to terms with herself, but it is not a trail upon which I wish to be a casualty.

Speaking to my girl friend afterwards, she asked, a little concerned whether I had gone hoping for something else. I shook my head but didn't really have an answer for her because I don't know myself for certain. Fundamentally it was curiosity, but I would be lying if I didn't acknowledge an attraction for the girl. So in a sense, maybe looking back now, I was using her just as she was me.

[Gearbox]

I didn't like to say that the girl is a nutter and you were destined for La La land with her.:rolleyes:
But I'm glad I got you wrong. Your not as daft as she/I thought you were.:)

[Pasadenacpl2]

Katja,

Yes, she used you. But,I don't think maliciously. She told you. That speaks volumes. She is afraid. But she let go of her fear enough to come clean to you. She was hoping. Hoping you'd be understanding. Maybe not as a lover or future girlfriend, but maybe as someone who can relate. I'm betting she has no one she can confide in. You should know what that is like. We all do.

If I may make a suggestion. Call her. Talk to her, and be that sympathetic ear. I know that fear she has. Most of us do. The fear of losing it all. Even if you never do more than listen and offer a kind word or two, you might be the difference in her life.

The closet is a terrifying place. When someone reaches out, even when they fuck it up, we need to be compassionate. I know you were hurt. I get that and don't blame you for feeling that way. But I urge you to see past the hurt and see her pain.

Pasa

[Long Duck Dong]

a counterfeit note..... interesting way of communicating......

thanks for sharing that, katja... and yeah my advice would have been the same, to the young girl.....

[Katja]

Katja,

Yes, she used you. But,I don't think maliciously. She told you. That speaks volumes. She is afraid. But she let go of her fear enough to come clean to you. She was hoping. Hoping you'd be understanding. Maybe not as a lover or future girlfriend, but maybe as someone who can relate. I'm betting she has no one she can confide in. You should know what that is like. We all do.

If I may make a suggestion. Call her. Talk to her, and be that sympathetic ear. I know that fear she has. Most of us do. The fear of losing it all. Even if you never do more than listen and offer a kind word or two, you might be the difference in her life.

The closet is a terrifying place. When someone reaches out, even when they fuck it up, we need to be compassionate. I know you were hurt. I get that and don't blame you for feeling that way. But I urge you to see past the hurt and see her pain.

Pasa

Pasadena, I did not leave her with completely harsh words. It is because I do care that I deliberately chose the expression 'begin to deal with your problems'.

I understand what it is like to be in the closet, but few will overcome those problems by teasing and using others as she has chosen to do. That I was never so uptight about my sexuality but indulged it however secretly and guiltily makes it difficult for me to entirely understand how she is.

That her parents bear much of the responsibility is undeniable from what I gleaned from our conversations, but she has chosen and bears responsibility for a dangerous path to deal with her sexuality that both she and others are going to suffer because of it in the long term. I do not intend to be one of those casualities.

Did she appeal for help? I don't know. I honestly don't think so. She had seen me in Lancaster, knew I was in a relationship and this sparked some twisted logic into play.

But if she does begin that process of dealing with the fundamental issue of what is troubling her then I am willing to help. I liked her and because she is rather selfish and acts stupidly does not alter that fact. Until she really wants to deal with her problems I honestly do not believe it is my responsibility to do the work and make the running to help her come to terms with who she is.