recovering bisexuals?

[slipnslide]

I hope this isn't too contentious, but do you think it's possible for someone to become a "recovering" bisexual, the same way one can become a recovering alcoholic? In thinking about it, I've come to realise there is nothing for me as bisexual. I can't see myself ever wanting to be in a relationship with another guy. I'm exposed to this seedy oversexualized underground community from which no positive can come - except maybe a position STI test. As a semi-closeted individual I hear how hetero people talk about bi/gay people when they're not around and realise that their sexuality limits them - for example, in their careers because they're not taken seriously. There's more to say here, but I think you all know the negatives. These threads are full of them as others try to cope also.

The positive side is that I'm attracted to women also - and there are WAY more women than gay/bi guys. Living that way just feels cleaner, brighter, and more positive. I was way happier in the days before attempting to understand my bisexuality. Really all I've learned from this forum and others, is that non-heteronormative lifestyles bring misery. So many sad and depressed people whose misery often stems from their sexuality.

So with that, I think I'm about to declare myself a "recovering bisexual". Like an alcoholic or any other addict, take it one day at a time and try to keep myself on the path that makes me happier.

It's been a crazy experiment, but overall, a failure.

[cornholejoe]

what are you recovering from you have tried men and dont like it

[tenni]

Ah, Slip :(
I have been enjoying reading some of your perspectives. I'm no expert but from what I've vaguely read about these conversions of gay to straight, many have been a false premise fundamentalist religious base that has failed. Do some research into those things, "cult" may apply? Dunno

Can you just stop cold turkey? Dunno.

As far as how to live as a bisexual, some bisexuals do seem to be happy in a cross sex relationship and do not need to have any sex with men. Some can not. I've not heard of a test that you can take to see which any of us are.

I don't know how old you are or how long you have been "living" aware of your bisexuality but from the above post, it may not be too long. There are several things that may happen with your sexuality. Remember the ebb and flow aspect. Remember that some have established cross sex relationships where they are "permitted" some same sex interaction within the marriage. Maybe, you will establish a relationship with a woman and not feel the need to be with men again? Maybe, your first step, is to get yerself a woman....:bigrin: not just any woman but a tolerant bisexual woman.;) With her, you might be able to find another bisexual man and establish a friendship that the wife accepts. Several on this site have.

Some bisexuals are happy in monogamous cross sex relationships. Some find a poly relationship that will work for them.

At any rate, I think that you bring forth the aspect that all bisexuals must seek. No one person has the solution for another person. Things change in life and that is the biggest aspect that you will not be able to control.

I don't think that you can be a recovering bisexual though. It is not a disease and it probably isn't the best way to look at it. I think that you may find a way to live as a bisexual that may work for you. It might have been an experiment to see if you would like same sex experiences but you are what you are.

If you are leaving the site, I wish the best fortune to you in your search. Just my three cents worth(inflation you know ;)

[void()]

"Living that way just feels cleaner, brighter, and more positive. I was way happier in the days before attempting to understand my bisexuality. Really all I've learned from this forum and others, is that non-heteronormative lifestyles bring misery. So many sad and depressed people whose misery often stems from their sexuality."

There may be truth for you in those words and do not let anyone dissuade you. Apologies if all you've seen is misery. Let me posit there is happiness oft in equal quantity and value mixed throughout living. I do not see that as an explicitly bisexual way of life. Everyone has good & bad times, a universal truth.

Perhaps, it may have fared well had you met a man whom truly loved you. But again, who is to know? All I may related is love can make a cosmos of difference in my experience. Despite thinking being a 'recovering bisexual' is a bit tongue in cheek, wish you well on that recovery if it's your choice. :) Live, laugh, love and be safe.

[Yoyome100]

Slip I wish you well. Your well being needs to be your primary concern. Personally my experiences have been just the opposite of yours.

Using the term "Recovering Bi" is sure to provoke responses deserved and not deserved. A simple farewell would have sufficed.

So long and fare thee well.

[Long Duck Dong]

slipnslide, if you want a simple answer, its yes....

you can be a recovering bisexual, a person that explored aspects of bisexuality and found that it didn't bring you the happiness and joy that you believed it would......

its like a drug addict in a way that grows tired of the sneaking around, the deceit, the underground community, etc and realises that yes they enjoyed the highs but they were fleeting when compared with the lows and the down times.....

we each walk our own paths and they are full of the choices we make and need to make, and our understanding of what choices we make and why... cos its our life....our future.....

may your feet never sink in the quadmire.....

[drugstore cowboy]

If you want to go back into the closet about your bisexuality or go back into complete denial about it that's your choice but it's not going to make things better, happier, or easier for you if you deny your sexuality or go back into a locked closet.

You seem to be in denial that women can and do have HIV and other STDs and do frequently infect men with HIV and give them other STDs.

If this is how you feel about yourself and your sexuality why not join an "Ex gay" group? :rolleyes:

[slipnslide]

slipnslide, if you want a simple answer, its yes....

you can be a recovering bisexual, a person that explored aspects of bisexuality and found that it didn't bring you the happiness and joy that you believed it would......

its like a drug addict in a way that grows tired of the sneaking around, the deceit, the underground community, etc and realises that yes they enjoyed the highs but they were fleeting when compared with the lows and the down times.....

we each walk our own paths and they are full of the choices we make and need to make, and our understanding of what choices we make and why... cos its our life....our future.....

may your feet never sink in the quadmire.....

Thanks. This shows that someone understands what I'm saying. I'm not condemning bisexuality, but have realised that the same-sex aspect of it brings nothing but lows. Your description of an addict is EXACTLY how I feel about my bisexuality.

[slipnslide]

If you are leaving the site, I wish the best fortune to you in your search. Just my three cents worth(inflation you know ;)

I hadn't really thought about leaving this site. I'm more thinking about not acting out on my bisexuality in my life. Posting here doesn't bring me misery.

[slipnslide]

If you want to go back into the closet about your bisexuality or go back into complete denial about it that's your choice but it's not going to make things better, happier, or easier for you if you deny your sexuality or go back into a locked closet.

You seem to be in denial that women can and do have HIV and other STDs and do frequently infect men with HIV and give them other STDs.

If this is how you feel about yourself and your sexuality why not join an "Ex gay" group? :rolleyes:

You missed a nuance here I think. It's not about being in the closet, or denial. I'm bi, I get that. But that doesn't mean I need to act on it. Acting on it only makes me miserable and who wants to go through life miserable? It's not unlike a diabetic. They may love sweets but alas, it does them no good so they have to avoid them.

[tenni]

"In thinking about it, I've come to realise there is nothing for me as bisexual. I can't see myself ever wanting to be in a relationship with another guy. "

Good to read that you are not leaving the site.

Let's see if I understand your perspective. You feel unhappy with the sexual activity that you have had with men. In part, due to a one time hook up scene? You do not wish to establish anything on going with another man though..even a fuck buddy concept? You wish to live as a non active bisexual as far as sex with other men.

I guess if the sex acts have left you feeling empty, it doesn't work for you. The lust factor for same sex is not that significant. Maybe, you are more hetero than bisexual?

[slipnslide]

Maybe, you are more hetero than bisexual?

I think that's the case.

[drugstore cowboy]

"In thinking about it, I've come to realise there is nothing for me as bisexual. I can't see myself ever wanting to be in a relationship with another guy. "

Good to read that you are not leaving the site.

Let's see if I understand your perspective. You feel unhappy with the sexual activity that you have had with men. In part, due to a one time hook up scene? You do not wish to establish anything on going with another man though..even a fuck buddy concept? You wish to live as a non active bisexual as far as sex with other men.

I guess if the sex acts have left you feeling empty, it doesn't work for you. The lust factor for same sex is not that significant. Maybe, you are more hetero than bisexual?


I think that's the case.

You're still bisexual even if you want to deny it or pretend that you're "mostly hetero".

If you really were heterosexual or "more hetero" anything you wouldn't have had sex with men or do anything like that.

Actual hetero/straight guys don't "experiment" by having sex with men not even once, and they don't have sex with men or question their sexuality.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Hey, if it makes you happy to think of yourself as "Recovering" then God speed to ya.
Take care
Cat

[Katja]

Disillusionment with who we are is common enough, darling, and with what, for people like ourselves, probably even more so. It doesn't really matter the reason why we become disillusioned but that we act to do something about it does.

The concept of 'recovering bisexual' brings to mind those who feel that they can force people to reclaim their heterosexuality by hook or by crook, but I know that is not how you mean it. It is an honest effort to heal your frustration with something that is a part of you and I wish you well.

Tenni is probably right when he suggests that you are probably closer to heterosexual, in the same way that those of us who are closer to being gay or lesbian still remain bisexual. Also for many of us our sexuality does fluctuate from one week to the next. Mine certainly does. However the strength of that fluctuation varies from one person to the next.

Some of us go through life moving in one direction and eventually declare ourselves gay or lesbian. I see no reason therefore why bisexual people cannot move back across the spectrum of sexuality and find that they have become heterosexual. I am not an adherent of the view expressed by Cowboy of once a bisexual, always a bisexual, any more than I am that those of us who are gay or straight will always remain gay or straight. I do believe it to be relatively uncommon but I do not accept that it does not happen. Human beings are much too complex and varied for such a simplistic view on life.

Many of us give up many things in our lives which were once important to us, and ceasing to actively express our sexuality is not uncommon. Many reasons exist for this from frustration and disillusion to reasons of conscience, belief, guilt and also because of a diminution of libido.

Whatever the reason darling, I do wish you well and hope and trust that you find the contentment and happiness you seek.

[tenni]

"Some of us go through life moving in one direction and eventually declare ourselves gay or lesbian. I see no reason therefore why bisexual people cannot move back across the spectrum of sexuality and find that they have become heterosexual."

I agree.

I think that the idea of fluidity of our sexuality throughout our life is very important to be aware of. Some bisexuals do seem to be closer to heterosexual while others seem a bit closer to being gay. The reality is though that we are not either. We do live in between and our attraction may change. We may intentionally try to change/control the intensity of our attraction to one gender over another but the attraction will remain for both. Whether we can will our actions and still be happy inside, I don't know.

[swmnkdinthervr]

Slipnslide,

I get the feeling your questions, confusion, issues with your sexual orientation have little to do with sexuality at all. It is apparent (to me at least) in your post you refer more to a morality issue than and a fear of how others might view you in that context if anyone found out about your bisexuality.

Your "misery" seems to be more a symptom of fear/guilt than experience, your notion that living outside this community "feels cleaner, brighter, and more positive" is (at least in my mind) a release of guilt fear associated with the notion that you need to hide from those who might judge you harshly based on their twisted sense of morality!

Indeed you may be more hetero than bi, in fact your post could be a subtle/subconscious attempt/plea to be recognized that way! Something you need to recognize...at least here on the forum. You have no need to "recover" unless you are addicted! You are who you are, you're accepted here in any orientation!

As an example my wife and I are both bisexual and the knowledge of that was totally freeing to us both and it lifted the weight of those same fears from our shoulders.

I might be way off base here and ALL the above are just my thoughts/feelings...just know we support you no matter your view. :bigrin:

[dickhand]

A recovering alcoholic is still an alcoholic . Is that what you are saying about your bisexuality ? You are still a bisexual .

[ChicagoNormalGuy]

I think you will stop pursuing men. And get all sorts of support here.

And in a while, a couple of months, maybe a year, you'll get the urge and pursue it again.

[matutum]

what are you recovering from you have tried men and dont like it

would he be considered an asshole that needs fucking?//lol lol

[BiDaveDtown]

I think you will stop pursuing men. And get all sorts of support here.

And in a while, a couple of months, maybe a year, you'll get the urge and pursue it again.

Right on CNG.

Slip it's not like your bisexuality is ever going to go away or your attractions to men are ever going to completely disappear and you're going to be heterosexual.

It does sound as though you're ashamed to be something other than heterosexual based on what you wrote.

[slipnslide]

A recovering alcoholic is still an alcoholic . Is that what you are saying about your bisexuality ? You are still a bisexual .

Exactly - but it doesn't mean that I have to behave as one.

[slipnslide]

Slipnslide,

I get the feeling your questions, confusion, issues with your sexual orientation have little to do with sexuality at all. It is apparent (to me at least) in your post you refer more to a morality issue than and a fear of how others might view you in that context if anyone found out about your bisexuality.

Your "misery" seems to be more a symptom of fear/guilt than experience, your notion that living outside this community "feels cleaner, brighter, and more positive" is (at least in my mind) a release of guilt fear associated with the notion that you need to hide from those who might judge you harshly based on their twisted sense of morality!

Indeed you may be more hetero than bi, in fact your post could be a subtle/subconscious attempt/plea to be recognized that way! Something you need to recognize...at least here on the forum. You have no need to "recover" unless you are addicted! You are who you are, you're accepted here in any orientation!

As an example my wife and I are both bisexual and the knowledge of that was totally freeing to us both and it lifted the weight of those same fears from our shoulders.

I might be way off base here and ALL the above are just my thoughts/feelings...just know we support you no matter your view. :bigrin:

I agree with some of what you've said about the morality issue. As I stated, since the people I work with don't know about my sexuality I hear all the homophobic commentary that goes on the world. Yet, something about what they say has merit.

(1) gay/bi guys are the primary carriers of STIs in my area (most areas are reporting STIs in gay/bi guys at 40x the general population)
(2) In north america 2-5% of the population carries 50% of the HIV infections (once you calculate out the infection density it's unreal) and the media has been reporting on this lately
(3) My city has had problems with men having sex with men in public parks, public buildings, etc.

So on the moral argument, whatever weight it carries, these are things that I cannot condone and do not wish to be associated. When people find out other people are gay/bi these are the associations that come to mind. Worse it's not mythology, it documented. In a world where we have to worry about what we put on Facebook or what we tweet, perceptions matter and can have a huge effect on people's lives.

If this wasn't so, the moral argument would likely be off the table for me. But again, being bi means I like both, so I can exclude that 2-5% of the male population as there is still 95% of hetero women.

[slipnslide]

I think you will stop pursuing men. And get all sorts of support here.

And in a while, a couple of months, maybe a year, you'll get the urge and pursue it again.

It's possible, but one thing that really irks my friends is my will power. They hate how I can cut something out and be done with it.

[slipnslide]

Right on CNG.

Slip it's not like your bisexuality is ever going to go away or your attractions to men are ever going to completely disappear and you're going to be heterosexual.

It does sound as though you're ashamed to be something other than heterosexual based on what you wrote.

That's a fair statement, and I think based on what I've written earlier there is some reason to be shameful about the gay/bi world.

A thought kept running through my head today: There's a reason people love Disney World.

[BiDaveDtown]

That's a fair statement, and I think based on what I've written earlier there is some reason to be shameful about the gay/bi world.

A thought kept running through my head today: There's a reason people love Disney World.

You're going by the assumption and bad stereotype that gay men, bisexuals, lesbians, and people who are not heterosexual somehow are highly promiscuous, that most non-hetero people have HIV/STDs, and lack morals and values.

These things are not true and I can see how someone who is closeted or an outsider such as a heterosexual would think such things.

Even if someone does have HIV or an STD there's nothing wrong with this. A lot of hetero women can and do have HIV and other STDs and either don't know it or know it and don't tell their male partners, and they infect men with HIV and other STDs.

Not even all bisexual and gay men like the "bi/gay" world and many of us find it rather boring and lacking and we don't want to stay in it all the time therefore cutting ourselves off from reality and anyone that's Heterosexual or not gay, lesbian, or bisexual or live in a gay ghetto 24/7 surrounded by nobody except rich white upper class gay men, bisexuals, and lesbians.

[slipnslide]

You're going by the assumption and bad stereotype that gay men, bisexuals, lesbians, and people who are not heterosexual somehow are highly promiscuous, that most non-hetero people have HIV/STDs, and lack morals and values.

These things are not true and I can see how someone who is closeted or an outsider such as a heterosexual would think such things.

If the perception of promiscuity is not true, to what do you attribute such a small population having 50% of the HIV infections, and 40x the STI rate of heterosexuals.

http://www.avert.org/usa-transmission-gender.htm

http://dgsma.wordpress.com/2010/03/11/u-s-gay-mens-astonishing-hivstd-rates/

[BiDaveDtown]

If the perception of promiscuity is not true, to what do you attribute such a small population having 50% of the HIV infections, and 40x the STI rate of heterosexuals.

Do more research and don't let your self loathing or dislike of bisexual and gay men and get rid of the dated 80s attitude that "HIV/AIDS is something that only bisexual men and gay men, and IV drug users have to worry about!".

You'll discover that most people worldwide who have HIV/AIDS or who died from HIV/AIDS are not gay or bisexual men but are heterosexuals, and they got HIV from heterosexual sex with opposite sex partners by not using condoms or correct safer sex practices.

[slipnslide]

Do more research and don't let your self loathing or dislike of bisexual and gay men and get rid of the dated 80s attitude that "HIV/AIDS is something that only bisexual men and gay men, and IV drug users have to worry about!".

You'll discover that most people worldwide who have HIV/AIDS or who died from HIV/AIDS are not gay or bisexual men but are heterosexuals, and they got HIV from heterosexual sex with opposite sex partners by not using condoms or correct safer sex practices.

You didn't answer the question though. Those numbers were for north america, that's where I live. If we count the US and Canada alone that's 350 million people. Hardly statistically insignificant. If we lived in Sub-Saharan Africa then it's a different conversation. You sort of proven my point for me though. No matter how much health officials scream that there's a problem here, the majority of bi/gay guys dismiss reality with a "yeah but" attitude and attempt some sleight of hand misdirection.

The facts are the facts. In the society in which we live, bi and gay guys are significantly more likely than heterosexuals to contract STIs and HIV. I asked why that is if it's not promiscuity, but you avoided that question. So I'll ask again, if promiscuity isn't behind those numbers, what is it?

[BiDaveDtown]

People (Heterosexuals included) are becoming HIV+ because they do not use condoms and do not have safer sex and it is their choice or decision to do this even if they're being foolish and clearly have a death wish.

It's been shown that with recent leaps and bounds with HIV medications and people no longer dying of AIDS fast like in the 1980s people seem to think that if they become HIV+ they can just go on medications or there are even people of all sexual orientations even heterosexual who believe they can have unprotected sex with whoever they want and they're not going to get HIV from it.

Just look at the number of posts here on this site where people will write about supposedly having unsafe sex or doing high risk sex acts, and then claim that they really know that their partner(s) are "clean". :rolleyes:

People like this are the human equivalent of lemmings.

It's entirely possible to have sex with someone that's HIV+ or who even has AIDS and if you have safer sex you're not going to get HIV from them or get infected at all.

[slipnslide]

People (Heterosexuals included) are becoming HIV+ because they do not use condoms and do not have safer sex and it is their choice or decision to do this even if they're being foolish and clearly have a death wish.

It's been shown that with recent leaps and bounds with HIV medications and people no longer dying of AIDS fast like in the 1980s people seem to think that if they become HIV+ they can just go on medications or there are even people of all sexual orientations even heterosexual who believe they can have unprotected sex with whoever they want and they're not going to get HIV from it.

Just look at the number of posts here on this site where people will write about supposedly having unsafe sex or doing high risk sex acts, and then claim that they really know that their partner(s) are "clean". :rolleyes:

People like this are the human equivalent of lemmings.

It's entirely possible to have sex with someone that's HIV+ or who even has AIDS and if you have safer sex you're not going to get HIV from them or get infected at all.

You're still avoiding the question:

If promiscuity isn't behind gay and bi men having significantly higher rates of STIs and HIV, what is it?

Is your argument that gay and bi men engage in riskier sex than heterosexuals?

If BiDaveDtown doesn't have an answer, does anyone?

[Darkside2009]

I think you are not alone, Slip, in the feelings you have described. I too wrestle with my conscience, trying to reconcile my sexual feelings with my religious beliefs.

These feelings have ebbed and flowed in intensity. I have often thought of them as similar to a smoker who has given up smoking but still has a craving for nicotine, so your analogy of the diabetic or alcoholic is similar.

I have often wondered what I'm doing on this site, as I feel I have so little in common with many here. The preoccupation with many for discussing penis or breast size, seems to me a little strange. As most of the Members live many miles apart and are unlikely to meet, what can it matter what size of penis or breasts they have. Yet those same polls, judging by the numbers viewing them, garner a great amount of interest. I can only assume the participants have a rich fantasy life.

To each their own I suppose, but these concerns seem very repetitious, so I tend to avoid them and concentrate on threads dealing with ideas and politics and how people deal with their every-day lives.

Every so often someone, such as yourself, sticks their head above the parapet and asks themselves fundamental questions. They are often derided or applauded in equal measure. Like you, I have no interest in an emotional relationship with a man, other than friendship. Others on this site feel differently and have stated they needed that emotional connection before any sexual activity could take place. That is their right and their decision and I don't have any problem with it.

For me the interest in men is purely sexual, I can only forge emotional attachments with women. I would agree that the statistics you quote indicate a greater deal of promiscuity in the homosexual and bisexual communities and this has certainly been my experience. Others might have a different experience, again I don't have a problem with that.

I have encountered homosexuals in the past who appear to actively court infection from HIV and STD's by attending sex parties where they engage with multiple partners in unprotected sex, whilst knowing these partners to be HIV+

I confess, I can't understand the logic of wanting to be infected with a life threatening illness. I can only surmise that such individuals in some way are seeking to become the centre of attention to fill a deficit they felt in the past.

As others have indicated, heterosexuals too, are just as vulnerable to HIV and STD's as are homosexuals if they don't practice safe-sex.

From what you have stated in this thread I have the impression that the moral question is upper-most in your mind. As you have already stated you have no wish to engage in an emotional relationship, or live with a man. Leaving aside safe-sex. That merely leaves a monogamous relationship with an uninfected women or celibacy.

I don't feel that our sexual preferences are set in concrete, if that were so, we would find that children experimenting with their sexuality, during puberty, with their peers, would be constrained to follow a homosexual lifestyle. That the vast majority grow-up as heterosexual, despite the past histories of many members related on this site, tends to prove my case.

So I wish you happiness and contentment in whatever path you decide for yourself. It is your life and you must decide for yourself what makes you happy despite any derision it may attract from others.

One must live according to one's conscience if one wishes to be content and happy.

[BiDaveDtown]

You're still avoiding the question:

If promiscuity isn't behind gay and bi men having significantly higher rates of STIs and HIV, what is it?

Is your argument that gay and bi men engage in riskier sex than heterosexuals?

If BiDaveDtown doesn't have an answer, does anyone?

The number of sexual partners one has, has nothing to do with if someone has HIV/AIDS or not.

What matters is if they are having safer sex and using condoms.

Nearly all HIV infections are caused by unprotected anal sex, unprotected vaginal sex, and IV drug use where the users share needles.

I know gay and bisexual men who've had a lot of sexual partners hundreds of them and they did not get HIV even when they'd had sex with HIV+ partners or people who had full blown AIDS because they had safer sex.

I know other gay men who did not use condoms at all and they were infected by the first or second person they'd ever had sex with or they were infected by someone who they were dating or partnered to.

I do not use any drugs let alone IV drugs but I know many people who have used/abused IV drugs in the past and IV drug use is a lot more common than people want to admit. There are some responsible IV drug users out there who never share IVs/rigs but a friend of mine who IV'd drugs for decades and did share needles and who did not get infected with HIV or anything else told me how when you use IV drugs how if you're with other people and there's only one needle and everyone wants to get high you are all going to share it since you have no other choice and you're putting getting high on drugs first in your life, instead of worrying about HIV or other diseases.

We all make our choices in life. I personally do not engage in high risk sex acts like I've posted about but I have friends who do or who have in the past.

I don't judge them or preach at them since it's 2011 and they know how to have safer sex yet for whatever reason they sometimes slip up or do not at times.

[void()]

"The number of sexual partners one has, has nothing to do with if someone has HIV/AIDS or not.

What matters is if they are having safer sex and using condoms.

Nearly all HIV infections are caused by unprotected anal sex, unprotected vaginal sex, and IV drug use where the users share needles."

The number of sexual partners one has, has nothing to do with if someone has HIV/AIDS or not.

I agree with this statement.

What matters is if they are having safer sex and using condoms.

I somewhat agree with this one. Because there is always what engineers, scientists and that ilk call a fudge factor. It may not even be about sex or i.v. drug use. For example, I've heard cases of prisoners with H.I.V biting guards and infecting them, and yes it is a reality. The saliva mixes with the blood and creates a bodily fluid exchange.

You might even get it off an unsanitary toilet seat although this is more unlikely. The virus can live for up to ten minutes outside the body if it contacts with bleach. Not sure how long if no bleach is involved. Know about ten minute bleach rule from running rescue squad calls. That is what a C.D.C representative told us, "wipe down the stretchers and mattresses with bleach, let stand ten minutes, then wipe with damp cloth using water, dry."

Nearly all HIV infections are caused by unprotected anal sex, unprotected vaginal sex, and IV drug use where the users share needles.

Ah, I see that someone else uses fudge factoring. Notice the phrase, "nearly all ...", and this is one I still do not fully agree with. I do think a variety of other means of infection exist. A prime example some folks overlook is called backwash. It's where you share a glass or bottle of a beverage, the person before you taking some in their mouth then letting return to the container. Maybe their saliva is in it, maybe not. It would be a shared biological fluid either way. There are other examples but it's too early for me to be thinking of Bubonic type of things.

BiDave,

I somewhat agree with you. I do think you are correct to point out we all need further education on H.I.V., and we ought not be as ostriches.

Slip,

While I may agree with BiDave, that does not imply an attempt to dissuade, saving to dissuade you from sheer terror. Please try to be courageous for I find Master Yoda to have been correct.


“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

And yes, barring all else even being an atheist, I believe in the Jedi way. :)

[slipnslide]

"The number of sexual partners one has, has nothing to do with if someone has HIV/AIDS or not.

What matters is if they are having safer sex and using condoms.

Nearly all HIV infections are caused by unprotected anal sex, unprotected vaginal sex, and IV drug use where the users share needles."

The number of sexual partners one has, has nothing to do with if someone has HIV/AIDS or not.

I agree with this statement.

What matters is if they are having safer sex and using condoms.

I somewhat agree with this one. Because there is always what engineers, scientists and that ilk call a fudge factor. It may not even be about sex or i.v. drug use. For example, I've heard cases of prisoners with H.I.V biting guards and infecting them, and yes it is a reality. The saliva mixes with the blood and creates a bodily fluid exchange.

You might even get it off an unsanitary toilet seat although this is more unlikely. The virus can live for up to ten minutes outside the body if it contacts with bleach. Not sure how long if no bleach is involved. Know about ten minute bleach rule from running rescue squad calls. That is what a C.D.C representative told us, "wipe down the stretchers and mattresses with bleach, let stand ten minutes, then wipe with damp cloth using water, dry."

Nearly all HIV infections are caused by unprotected anal sex, unprotected vaginal sex, and IV drug use where the users share needles.

Ah, I see that someone else uses fudge factoring. Notice the phrase, "nearly all ...", and this is one I still do not fully agree with. I do think a variety of other means of infection exist. A prime example some folks overlook is called backwash. It's where you share a glass or bottle of a beverage, the person before you taking some in their mouth then letting return to the container. Maybe their saliva is in it, maybe not. It would be a shared biological fluid either way. There are other examples but it's too early for me to be thinking of Bubonic type of things.

BiDave,

I somewhat agree with you. I do think you are correct to point out we all need further education on H.I.V., and we ought not be as ostriches.

Slip,

While I may agree with BiDave, that does not imply an attempt to dissuade, saving to dissuade you from sheer terror. Please try to be courageous for I find Master Yoda to have been correct.



And yes, barring all else even being an atheist, I believe in the Jedi way. :)

The problem I have with "The number of sexual partners one has, has nothing to do with if someone has HIV/AIDS or not." is the actuarial tables would disagree. It's the same way that the insurance company charges you more if you drive over a certain distance threshold every year - or at least they do in Canada.

It's a fairly simple principle, the more you X, the more likely a negative consequence of X will happen. So hopefully that shows that the number of sexual partners is strongly correlated with STIs. Somewhere our education systems are failing to help people understand this stuff. If you roll a die 6 times, there's a greater chance seeing a 3 than if you only roll it once

Really though, my purpose here was to highlight the irresponsibility of the community as a whole by challenging people and watching how they refuse to answer. When challenged with stats on STI and HIV infections in men who have sex with men there is no shortage of deflections. Yet, very few are willing to step up and say "yeah, we've got a problem here". I suspect that's because addressing a hedonistic lifestyle would require them to admit to themselves that they're doing something against the public health interest. That's too difficult because they just want a lot of sex with multiple parters. This is where the community needs leadership to drag people into reality - and I don't know where that leadership is going to come from. . .

[tenni]

"I can't see myself ever wanting to be in a relationship with another guy. I'm exposed to this seedy oversexualized underground community from which no positive can come - except maybe a position STI test."

Slip
Maybe, I was in the can when you answered this so let me see if I can get a clarification from you?:tong:

1/ You do not want to be involved in a casual multi partner same sex casual thing.
2/ You do not want to be in a relationship with a guy

What is wrong with the option of an on going friendship with benefits with one or two guys who are also not being promiscuous? (no "relationship but a friendship)

and a woman who accepts this guy friend with benefits package

[slipnslide]

"I can't see myself ever wanting to be in a relationship with another guy. I'm exposed to this seedy oversexualized underground community from which no positive can come - except maybe a position STI test."

Slip
Maybe, I was in the can when you answered this so let me see if I can get a clarification from you?:tong:

1/ You do not want to be involved in a casual multi partner same sex casual thing.
2/ You do not want to be in a relationship with a guy

What is wrong with the option of an on going friendship with benefits with one or two guys who are also not being promiscuous? (no "relationship but a friendship)

and a woman who accepts this guy friend with benefits package

I guess it just doesn't appeal to me. I'm a monogamous kinda guy once i'm in a relationship.

[BiDaveDtown]

The problem I have with "The number of sexual partners one has, has nothing to do with if someone has HIV/AIDS or not." is the actuarial tables would disagree. It's the same way that the insurance company charges you more if you drive over a certain distance threshold every year - or at least they do in Canada.

It's a fairly simple principle, the more you X, the more likely a negative consequence of X will happen. So hopefully that shows that the number of sexual partners is strongly correlated with STIs. Somewhere our education systems are failing to help people understand this stuff. If you roll a die 6 times, there's a greater chance seeing a 3 than if you only roll it once

Really though, my purpose here was to highlight the irresponsibility of the community as a whole by challenging people and watching how they refuse to answer. When challenged with stats on STI and HIV infections in men who have sex with men there is no shortage of deflections. Yet, very few are willing to step up and say "yeah, we've got a problem here". I suspect that's because addressing a hedonistic lifestyle would require them to admit to themselves that they're doing something against the public health interest. That's too difficult because they just want a lot of sex with multiple parters. This is where the community needs leadership to drag people into reality - and I don't know where that leadership is going to come from. . .

HIV doesn't care about statistics, data, or equations, the number of people who you've had sex with, if you're promiscuous or it's your first time having sex, or the fact that you want people to stop having sex or be completely monogamous neither of which are going to work.

The "community" already has had leadership about HIV it's been like this since bisexual and gay men were getting infected in the 70s and an entire generation died in the early and mid 80s.

It usually takes multiple exposures to HIV in order to get infected.

This not to say that you should go around and engage in high risk sex acts without worry but HIV is not that easy of a disease to get unless you're actively and purposely sharing IVs or not using condoms for anal and/or vaginal sex.

I do know people who have had unprotected anal sex with people who are HIV+ and they either came in them or had the other person cum in them not once but multiple times and these people did not get HIV at all but they are just damn lucky.

The people who are getting infected with HIV nowadays are ignorant about the disease and having safer sex. Many people think that getting HIV is not a big deal, that they can go on medications, or that nobody dies of AIDS anymore at all. Or then you have all the reasons why people make up excuses for not using condoms and you have people who do use condoms when having hook ups but they slip up and don't with a boyfriend or partner thinking that the person is HIV neg when they're really not.

Then you have men who think that because they only have sex with women or that they're heterosexual, or trying to be hetero when they're not that they're somehow not nearly at risk for getting HIV as bisexual and gay men are which is not true.

[biblkman]

I feel your pain....well at least i have in the past. from what i gather your starting to feel strong feelings of lonelyness, frustration. Your into women more than men so try and find a bi woman or bi male friendly woman you would be surprised how accepted and not alone u feel when u find someone who understand u.....forums like these help alot, the've helped me, but nothing compares to having someone to take on the world with, it makes the hardships more bareable. In your case u see your bisexuality as an obstical and a large part for your unhappyness....when u meet that special somone who accepts u ...the neggativity u see in your bisexuality will slowly disipate and u will just be u....hang in there

[NotLostJustWandering]

Hey, Slip. I imagine that because of what I've been posting lately (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11510) you might have expected me to get on your case for this, but I feel for you. It's a tough life having a complicated sexuality that can earn you rejection and abuse from monosexuals of either stripe. I've gotten the impression that you haven't had a lot of same-sex experience; don't know if that's true, but in any case I totally understand why you would like to forswear dating men. Men can be so awful. We're so ready to jump into the sack with anyone whose looks get us hard, and as soon as we're done, we're ready to run off to the next one. Having to compromise with women's desires keeps the excesses of our sexuality in check, but this doesn't happen when we get together with each other. (Don't get on my case for saying this, bros, I'm not talking about YOU in particular, or even myself, just what seems to be the overwhelming majority of us.)

You say you greatly prefer women, and are inclined towards monogamy. This is not a good recipe for same-gender relations. Maybe sticking to women is simply the wise thing for you to do. I would urge you, though, not to deny your bisexuality. As I stated in the post referenced above, it is a disservice to other bi people and to society in general for us to live our lives in a closet. I can, of course, see why you might want to keep secret about it until you have found your dream girl. But once you have safely established something serious and everyone knows you're a unit with a woman, why not let people know that you're actually bi? You could do so much to enlighten people, show people that being bi doesn't necessarily mean "living bi" as you erroneously call seeking lovers of both genders (shame on you!:tong:), and you might even prove a role model for a younger man who has the same issues as you. Think about it.

It was stated earlier in this thread that it is indeed possible to go from being bi to being truly monosexual, no longer desiring both genders at all. I must admit that while I seriously doubt that, I am open to hearing testimony from anyone who has had the experience.

In any case, I wish you the best and trust that you will do whatever's right for you.

[slipnslide]

I've gotten the impression that you haven't had a lot of same-sex experience; don't know if that's true, but in any case I totally understand why you would like to forswear dating men.

Not a lot, but just enough to know that it's like having a puzzle where none of the pieces fit together.


As I stated in the post referenced above, it is a disservice to other bi people and to society in general for us to live our lives in a closet. I can, of course, see why you might want to keep secret about it until you have found your dream girl. But once you have safely established something serious and everyone knows you're a unit with a woman, why not let people know that you're actually bi? You could do so much to enlighten people, show people that being bi doesn't necessarily mean "living bi" as you erroneously call seeking lovers of both genders (shame on you!:tong:), and you might even prove a role model for a younger man who has the same issues as you. Think about it.


It's not up to me to advocate for anyone other than myself.

[NotLostJustWandering]

Not a lot, but just enough to know that it's like having a puzzle where none of the pieces fit together.

Try lube. :tongue:


It's not up to me to advocate for anyone other than myself.

Spoken like a true American.

[niftyshellshock]

Try lube. :tongue:



Spoken like a true American.

I don't blame slip. If I was to stand up on a soapbox right now and tell the world I'm bi, I'd do no one any good, quite the contrary, I'd be ostracized back home, I'd lose respect from my peers, etc. etc.
If I was maybe some sort of public figure where my stepping out of the bi closet would provide a service to some struggling youth, then definitely, but I'm not.
The people that know I'm bi are my close friends. Society at large can stay the hell away from where my penis goes. Part of being an American is that in this country, we value individual liberty over some sort of lip service to a whole. If slip doesn't want to advocate bisexuality, that's his own choice, and saying "oh wah you're doing a disservice to everyone by your actions" does the "cause" more harm than good.

My name is nifty, I am an American, and I stand with slip.

[slipnslide]

Spoken like a true American.

Canadian.

[slipnslide]

I don't blame slip. If I was to stand up on a soapbox right now and tell the world I'm bi, I'd do no one any good, quite the contrary, I'd be ostracized back home, I'd lose respect from my peers, etc. etc.
If I was maybe some sort of public figure where my stepping out of the bi closet would provide a service to some struggling youth, then definitely, but I'm not.
The people that know I'm bi are my close friends. Society at large can stay the hell away from where my penis goes. Part of being an American is that in this country, we value individual liberty over some sort of lip service to a whole. If slip doesn't want to advocate bisexuality, that's his own choice, and saying "oh wah you're doing a disservice to everyone by your actions" does the "cause" more harm than good.

My name is nifty, I am an American, and I stand with slip.

I'm in the same situation in many regards. I'm okay with who I am, but would lose respect from co-workers and peers if they knew I was bi. If we construct a model of this I believe we see something interesting:

---
Some kid is miserable because he's bi and considers suicide.

Someone advocates that I be more openly bi to help this kid. I do it, I lose respect from family, friends, co-workers. I end up getting overlooked for promotions, etc. Now I'm miserable along with that kid. How does that help anyone?
---

Of course the rose-coloured glasses folks amongst us say "oh no no, by you being more open you'll be showered with praise and admiration". That doesn't happen though.

It all comes back to my primary point: the world regards us as disease-riddled deviants who are clogging up our sexual health clinics and sucking back a lot of tax dollars (at least in Canada).

The problem with this argument, is there is no way to combat it because the data shows it's true. That's part of the reason why so many of us can't be more open - because we'll be lumped into that group.

When I bring this up to gay and bi guys, lately the response has been "oh, it's not that big a deal, you just take one pill and it's gone". They COMPLETELY miss the point. Hedonism trumps responsibility with them.

Until gay and bi guys start cleaning up their act, there is no point in being more open.

[NotLostJustWandering]

Canadian.

Whoops. I'm terribly, terribly sorry.

[NotLostJustWandering]

I'm in the same situation in many regards. I'm okay with who I am, but would lose respect from co-workers and peers if they knew I was bi. If we construct a model of this I believe we see something interesting:

---
Some kid is miserable because he's bi and considers suicide.

Someone advocates that I be more openly bi to help this kid. I do it, I lose respect from family, friends, co-workers. I end up getting overlooked for promotions, etc. Now I'm miserable along with that kid. How does that help anyone?

The problems with your model are that you mention no contact with the kid and you assume that your coming out has no long-term effect on your people's views of bisexuals. Do you not command enough respect in their eyes to affect their views?



Of course the rose-coloured glasses folks amongst us say "oh no no, by you being more open you'll be showered with praise and admiration". That doesn't happen though.

No, in my experience the results of coming out fall somewhere in the middle of these two extremes. Some people, to your astonishment, don't blink an eye. Others find in your coming out a reason to dislike you -- especially if they disliked you in the first place. Others still -- and these are the ones who really count -- have an initial negative reaction, but then with a bit more time come around, realize you are the same person they've always known, and are forced to admit the humanity of the group they've stereotyped and despised. This is how you can help society progress. In my own life, I have forced people to confront their own homophobia, biphobia and Islamophobia, and grow beyond it. "Standing on a soap box" as another poster put it, is not how I would characterize my jihad. It's just about being myself, not hiding any aspect of myself, and constantly engaging with people so dialogue happens.

As for those who despise me for being myself, I prefer it that way than that we have a friendship that goes on for years based on a false premise. There is something to be said for being discreet with people until they get to know you: they might, had they known the full truth, keep their distance, and thus deprive you of the chance to illuminate them.


It all comes back to my primary point: the world regards us as disease-riddled deviants who are clogging up our sexual health clinics and sucking back a lot of tax dollars (at least in Canada).

The problem with this argument, is there is no way to combat it because the data shows it's true. That's part of the reason why so many of us can't be more open - because we'll be lumped into that group.

When I bring this up to gay and bi guys, lately the response has been "oh, it's not that big a deal, you just take one pill and it's gone". They COMPLETELY miss the point. Hedonism trumps responsibility with them.

No argument with you there. Nonstop casual sex is irresponsible to society at large as well as dangerous to ones own physical and spiritual health.


Until gay and bi guys start cleaning up their act, there is no point in being more open.

And if you were equally public with your sexuality and your disapproval of casual sex? How else are people going to learn we're not all recklessly promiscuous?

[Blue_duck_97]

This is an interesting post. I’m a male and I have had two male partners over the last 15 years. I do consider myself bisexual, but I’m not that active. Often, the desire for another cock is overwhelming. Strangely, I have not really become attached to the guy….just the cock. The last guy was really nice and I regret not spending more time with him. Prior to him, I fantasized only about the cock, but now I think more about the man. Maybe I was/am just looking for a fuck buddy and just realized there is more to it than that. Thanks for the thought provoking post.
bd

[Stardustwebcams]

I hadn't really thought about leaving this site. I'm more thinking about not acting out on my bisexuality in my life. Posting here doesn't bring me misery.

[Darkside2009]

I hadn't really thought about leaving this site. I'm more thinking about not acting out on my bisexuality in my life. Posting here doesn't bring me misery.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Very curious. Word for word the same as post number nine, does this confirm imitation is the sincerest form of flattery? lol

[bib4u]

When your misery from not acting on your bisexuality becomes something you must address, you will...or live a miserable existence.

Life is short..misery is self inflicted. Be nice to yourself and others.

If you can't do something for yourself or others, never do anything too them!

[matutum]

what are you recovering from you have tried men and dont like it

i find its about the chemistry.I have a wife who is my best friend.I like to be with a man once in a while.She doesn't she why she needs another man or woman.She is ok with that,but I'm choosey and tell others what I'm looking for.Luck to You

[BiDaveDtown]

When your misery from not acting on your bisexuality becomes something you must address, you will...or live a miserable existence.

Well said!

[vengful-tenkatsu]

the best i can say about this is that it seems to me you are merely ashamed of being bisexual or at least dwell to much on the negatives or had bad thing happen because of being bi i just recently came fully out about it my self and its the best thin i ever did be cause i can think clearer now about what i want male female both it dont matter but you just need to think why you feel the way you do and dont be ashamed of who you are or what you decide to to:bipride:

[BiBedBud]

I’d like to weigh-in on this very thought provoking thread, but first I must address some errata…

Saliva is not considered to be a common vector for HIV transmission. To quote from a US CDC website; “Exposure to saliva uncontaminated with blood is considered to be a rare mode of HIV transmission for at least five reasons: 1) saliva inhibits HIV-1 infectivity; 2) HIV is infrequently isolated from saliva; 3) none of the approximately 500,000 cases of AIDS reported to CDC have been attributed to exposure to saliva; 4) levels of HIV are low in the saliva of HIV-infected persons, even in the presence of periodontal disease; and 5) transmission of HIV in association with kissing has not been documented in studies of nonsexual household contacts of HIV-infected persons. However, rare bite-related instances of HIV transmission from exposure to saliva contaminated with HIV-infected blood have been reported.” Read the whole webpage (with references) here http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00048364.htm

The ‘transmission efficiency’ of HIV from one infected person to an uninfected person is predicated upon a number of factors; the combined effects of which will either result in an infection or a near miss. If the infected person has a ‘high viral load’ in his or her bloodstream and other bodily fluids (meaning that there are large numbers of virus per millilitre, or whatever), and his or her blood or other bodily fluids (notably semen) are ‘dosed’ to a receptive partner, in such a way that it can enter his or her bloodstream, then the chances for HIV transmission are very high.

So, for example, an infected man having unprotected vaginal sex with a woman would present a somewhat lesser risk of transmission than if he were having unprotected anal sex with someone, because vaginal sex is much less likely to result in bleeding than is anal sex. This is a part of the reason why men who have sex with men are more prone to HIV transmission than are heterosexuals.

Of course, statistically speaking, if the infected person has a ‘low viral load’, the chances of transmission are somewhat lower, though never zero (even with condoms, because condoms do break). Notwithstanding that last sentence; in theory, a single strand of virus could be enough to cause infection, if it is delivered into someone’s bloodstream. Additionally, there is evidence that mere contact exposure of an infected person’s blood or semen onto the ‘mucous membranes’ that are found on the inside of body orifices (including mouth, vagina, anus, urethra, etc.), may be enough to permit transmission, since the AIDS virus is small enough to pass through these ‘mucous membranes’. However, counter to what this suggests, the epidemiological evidence indicates that oral sex does not seem to offer the high ‘transmission efficiency’ that one might expect that it could, perhaps because “saliva inhibits HIV-1 infectivity”.

As far as I know; I don’t think that “backwash” has ever resulted in HIV transmission; and from what I understand, bleach (chlorine) would kill HIV on contact, and the ten minute wait is just to be sure. Bleach does not make HIV more dangerous, in fact, it kills it. I’ve also never heard of HIV transmission from a dirty toilet seat, but since I know that you can get crabs and other undesirable infections from dirty toilet seats, I’ve never sat, bare-assed, on a strange toilet seat. If I have the option and the requisite toilet paper, I make myself a ‘TP-barrier’, and if that’s not possible I do a ‘float’ job, hovering over top of the suspicious toilet in question. (Gotta love those flushable toilet seat covers – I always use them if they’re available.)

Other factors that may increase the risk for acquiring HIV include poor health and other infections, which weaken immune response and which may also weaken the skin with lesions and such (thereby permitting direct access for the virus into the bloodstream).

Drug use is also an increasingly important factor, notably all of these “party and play” (or pnp) men who have sex with men involving a “bump” of crystal methamphetamine shared by way of bare cock in strange ass. (Want to see something really scary? Go to Craigslist, in the “Men seeking Men” section and search for the term “pnp” or “Tina”. I just did this a moment ago in the Toronto craigslist, and found well over a hundred ads! If it were up to me, this is the group of people I would target for some invasive public health intervention.) In truth, it’s this lot that gives gay and bisexual men a bad name, because this is the real epidemiological ‘hot spot’ for HIV/AIDS and other STI rates going through the roof in recent years.

If you’re like me – the average bisexual man reading this website – you’d never in a million years even consider bending over for some strange junkie who is waving his meth-dusted cock in your direction, hoping to bareback you after that other junkie is finished doing the same. Sadly, there seems to be no shortage of men who do this kind of thing ten nights a week, sometimes with dozens of men at a time. The only reasons for it are stupidity and methamphetamine addiction.

Is it any wonder that AIDS/STD infections are spiking? These are the men who are giving the rest of us a bad name, and the media are in on it. When the media report on “Skyrocketing AIDS Rates the Scourge of Gay and Bisexual Men” – lumping the degenerate druggies in with the rest of us – they are tarring all of us with this very ugly brush. If there is a case for increased advocacy, it is to make this distinction clearer in the public consciousness, and in particular, to media outlets who are engaging in this destructive, maligning reportage that smears all gay and bisexual men as reckless hedonists. What their headline should read is “Meth Users Drive Up AIDS/STI Rates”.

Now on to the real topic of this thread….

slipnslide,

I can readily understand your desire not to be lumped-in with those diseased druggies – in fact I share that with you. Like you, I also don’t want to be sexualized in my everyday public life, where I try to make my way in the world as a professional that people can count on and call upon when they have a need for my services. This requires a certain amount of detachment, and it would not serve my interests for any of the people in my working life to know too much about me on a personal level. Any view of me other than as a skilled professional, would only detract from my effectiveness and my earnings.

I’ve always found that professionally and also interpersonally, the ‘air of mystique’ has always worked to my advantage. Accordingly, I take pride in my ability to get someone to completely open-up to me, and tell me all manner of things about their personal selves, without ever reciprocating the gesture of openness, or even causing the other person to be curious about me. What they are left with is an impression that I understand them, which is something I can bill; whereas their understanding me, on a personal level, can only work against me. In my line of work, the best vantage point is always behind a shadow. Not to mention, in my experience, most people would much rather talk about themselves than listen about me, anyways – and that’s true on the job and in social circles as well.

Over the years, I too have encountered a number of people who have expressed their hatred/fear of sexual (and racial) minorities to me, while I've been working. Sometimes, when I’ve thought it would serve a purpose, I would remark that “It takes all kinds to make a world”, or “To each his own”, or if necessary I’ve defended someone by explaining that “He/she’s a solid performer though, with strong skills and good reliability”, etc. Other times, if I’ve estimated that the person making the hateful/fearful remark is beyond redemption or not worthy of it; I’ve just shrugged and carried-on with what we were doing, at that time. But that is not where I would let things stand. You see, I think that these ‘hard cases’ are a real liability in any kind of workplace, and I have actively done things to remove them, whenever I’ve been able to do so. I don’t mean “when the opportunity presents itself”, I mean, whenever I can possibly manage it.

You will be happy to know that a number of bigots have lost their jobs because they’ve made an off-colour remark in my presence. Sometimes, I have been quite open about it with my (top) clients, and they’ve agreed with me that this kind of person can result in a lawsuit from a customer or a client or a coworker – and so they’re better off working elsewhere, because they’re “not management material” or they’re not “good team players”. Other times, when the situation was a little more complex, I would find another way to get them ‘moved on’, which usually meant ‘moved out’.

Would I have been as effective at this as I have been, had I been publicly “out” about my bisexuality? I don’t think so. In any case, in my opinion, it is better for me not to be “out”, because it affords me the opportunity to hear the unfiltered talk that I would be denied had I been “out”.

Additionally, in my working life, I have to be 100% ‘on the ball’, and my sexuality is not a part of that, so I don’t bring it in with me like some piece of baggage – it could only trip me up. Since I would never consider a relationship with anyone I’ve encountered through my working life, or even a hook-up, I truly don’t see the purpose of being “out” while on the job. In my personal life, if we’re not ‘involved’ then you’re not informed, either. My personal business is on a need-to-know basis, and if you don’t have a need to know, you won’t. I am happy to let others assume, wonder and guess as they will, and I really don’t see the purpose of being ‘in your face’ about my sexual preferences. For the people who sign my cheques, the only thing I need them to know is that I know what I'm doing for them. Anything else can only get in my way.

As for the issues surrounding “sexual identities”, I think there are many people who identify as somewhere on the bisexual scale (neither 100% heterosexual or homosexual); who do so based more on their fantasy life than on their actual life experience. Let me explain what I mean with that one…

Speaking from my experience, gained pretty much at the same time that I started masturbating (at age 10 or 11, I think); I discovered that my orgasms were much stronger if I included anal stimulation along with the usual penis-in-hand pumping. I guess it was a happy combination of curiosity and experimentation, but initially it wasn’t sexually-motivated by desire for same-sex relations. It was more purely sensual than overtly sexual.

Either I would sit on a pair of balled-up socks, strategically placed right where it counts, or I’d squeeze a purpose-shaped wad of toilet paper right between my cheeks, so that it would press against my asshole as I did my thing. It wasn’t long before I graduated to inserting objects, starting with my soapy fingers, then the test-tubes that came with my chemistry kit, smeared in Vaseline. (Luckily, I apprehended the danger of broken glass in my ass before it came to that, and I graduated to safer objects.) It was some years at this style of ‘enhanced play’ before I started fantasizing about what would be better in my ass than a hairbrush handle. This is how the idea of having sex with men first came to mind, and it added a whole other, exciting dimension to things.

I had discovered the eroticism of the taboo.

For years and years, my sexual interest in men only existed in my fantasy life, as I had discovered that thinking about men fucking me, while I ran a dildo in and out of my ass, really, really got me off in a major big way. Eventually, I sought-out the real deal.

That’s when I discovered the disappointment of reality.

Maybe I had gotten-down to it with the wrong man, I thought, so I tried another, and found a different kind of disappointment. Not one to be deterred, I tried another and another and another – each time discovering that the reality didn’t live-up to my fantasy. Was I really as bisexual as I had thought? I mean, I have no qualms about women – I love them from head to toe, and would put a whole woman in my mouth and swirl her around with my tongue, if only I could figure out how. But men – my interest in men – has always been more intense while I’ve been alone, playing with my dildos, then when I’ve actually been naked with one, in the flesh. I’ve tried, believe me, but I’ve never had the ‘sexual success’ with a man that I’ve had with virtually every women I’ve ever been naked with.

I think that by making my taboo, doable, that I took the edge off of what was an intensely erotic fantasy, by making it a comparatively less thrilling reality. Maybe it was the safer sex requirements that spoiled things, or perhaps my fear of catching something, or the fact that I really had no interpersonal connection with these guys, so the cachet wasn’t there. I really don’t know – so I am still curious about these things, and will continue to explore until I arrive at a better understanding of myself. That’s the real purpose of all this sexperimentation, I guess. If I were just to satisfy myself with what I know satisfies me, then I’d stick to women exclusively. The reason I don’t, for the time being, is because I’m single and still curious about myself and me with men. I guess that’s what makes me a bisexual.

What does this mean for my sexual identity? I don’t think I’m “straight” in the traditional sense – I’m far too open minded to be strictly heterosexual, and some of my homosexual experiences were a lot of fun, and I hope to have more fun of that kind in the future, but I’m not aching for it. That curiosity has already been satisfied. Could I ever settle down with one woman, and be monogamous with her? Absolutely I could, especially if she knows how to hammer me with a strap-on!

Will I still identify as “bisexual”, even if I’m in a monogamous relationship with a woman?

To paraphrase the Mexican banditos… “Badges? I don’t need no stinking badges!”:cool:

[slipnslide]

Thanks BiBedBud. We definitely have a similar vibe going about our sexuality.

[slipnslide]

the best i can say about this is that it seems to me you are merely ashamed of being bisexual or at least dwell to much on the negatives or had bad thing happen because of being bi i just recently came fully out about it my self and its the best thin i ever did be cause i can think clearer now about what i want male female both it dont matter but you just need to think why you feel the way you do and dont be ashamed of who you are or what you decide to to:bipride:

No, not ashamed. If you read BiBedBud's post it very closely mirrors what I think.

[BiDaveDtown]

BiBed you do realize that it's only a very small minority of bisexual and gay men who use crystal meth, cocaine, and other stimulants and have unprotected sex, right?

On Craigslist a lot of the ads posted on there are either from spam/bots and are fake, or are from the same people daily/weekly.

A LOT of heterosexuals use meth and other illegal drugs, don't use condoms or have safer sex, sleep around with a lot of sexual partners, and IV drugs and share needles. Yes you read that right.

All of these things are problems among heterosexuals even IV drug use and sharing needles even if people and even the media want to pretend that such things don't happen or that they're rare and that needle exchange programs aren't needed at all.

I do agree with vengful-tenkatsu all of the "No labels!" and "My sexuality is ONLY my business and not anyone else's at all!" people seem to be ashamed, closeted, and full of self loathing.

Even if you are only dating women or do settle down with a woman why wouldn't you tell any of them about how you're bisexual?

[BiDaveDtown]

I don't blame slip. If I was to stand up on a soapbox right now and tell the world I'm bi, I'd do no one any good, quite the contrary, I'd be ostracized back home, I'd lose respect from my peers, etc. etc.
If I was maybe some sort of public figure where my stepping out of the bi closet would provide a service to some struggling youth, then definitely, but I'm not.
The people that know I'm bi are my close friends. Society at large can stay the hell away from where my penis goes. Part of being an American is that in this country, we value individual liberty over some sort of lip service to a whole. If slip doesn't want to advocate bisexuality, that's his own choice, and saying "oh wah you're doing a disservice to everyone by your actions" does the "cause" more harm than good.

My name is nifty, I am an American, and I stand with slip.

Until you actually come out you're going to stay locked in the closet with the fear that if you do come out as bisexual and try to change things and become visible as a bisexual and as a person of the GLBT community-that coming out isn't going to do any of that and that you'll somehow be ostracized back home, rejected by your family, and somehow lose respect from your peers.

You're living in a world of theory and GLBT teens and even adults who are in worse situations than you are in have came out and they were not rejected by their families, friends, or by society at large.

By coming out you are showing people that you are not ashamed, closeted, or afraid to be who you are or to be bisexual like you are doing by staying closeted and living in fear.

By coming out and being visible you're helping other bisexuals who are closeted because of fear and you don't have to be a celebrity or some sort of public figure to do any of this.

I'm an American as well and I've been out for as long as you've been alive so don't tell me that in today's society and in 2011 that it's somehow very hard to come out since I've been out as bisexual since the late 70s and back then even if you were to come out as lesbian or gay it was not seen as a "good" thing like it is today.

[BiBedBud]

BiDaveDtown,

Jump to conclusions much?

Actually, I "do realize that it's only a very small minority of bisexual and gay men who use crystal meth, cocaine, and other stimulants and have unprotected sex", which was the point of what I wrote. These men are the reason for the increasing incidence of HIV/STIs among the broader group of gay and bisexual men. I thought I was clear about that.

I don't think you understand how spam bots work. They don't navigate their way onto Craigslist to post ads seeking pnp hookups. Real people do that -- perhaps the same real people, multiple times a day -- granted. But, they're real people, not spam bots, which are known to send emails and troll websites for email addresses -- but so far, are not known to navigate through 'captchas' very well (Google it).

As for the prevalence of unprotected sexual practices, I think the lack of fear of pregnancy has gone a long way toward increasing the free-wheeling attitude of many men who have sex with men. Believe me, if men who have sex with men were to worry about a paternity suit being brought against them for child support payments, there'd be more condom use among MSMs. On the other side of the same coin -- I think it is pretty rare for a woman who is not a prostitute or a porno actress to 'take it' from a dozen or more men at a time. Go to a gay bath house and you'll find a dozen such men who do, routinely.

You are entitled to your opinion and to "agree with vengful-tenkatsu". I must, however, remind you that opinions are like assholes -- everyone has one.

Personally, I'd rather live in a world where people are judged based on the content of their character, rather than on any sort of label that one might care to apply to them, or that someone might want to apply to themselves.

I guess that means that I'm just not as superficial as you or vengful-tenkatsu.

Lastly, whoever said I would hide my bisexual nature or my homosexual experiences from any woman that I became involved with on an intimate level? I never said I would, and I won't.


BiDaveDtown, please read my posts more carefully, next time. I'm rather busy these days, and I cannot work overtime to correct your misapprehension. That's not a dig -- it's a sincere request.

Thanks in advance,
BBB

PS: BiDaveDtown, if you're so "out" and "front and center" about it, how come your profile is so non-descript? Why not post your real name and a full face pic?

[BiDaveDtown]

BiDaveDtown,

Jump to conclusions much?

Actually, I "do realize that it's only a very small minority of bisexual and gay men who use crystal meth, cocaine, and other stimulants and have unprotected sex", which was the point of what I wrote. These men are the reason for the increasing incidence of HIV/STIs among the broader group of gay and bisexual men. I thought I was clear about that.

I don't think you understand how spam bots work. They don't navigate their way onto Craigslist to post ads seeking pnp hookups. Real people do that -- perhaps the same real people, multiple times a day -- granted. But, they're real people, not spam bots, which are known to send emails and troll websites for email addresses -- but so far, are not known to navigate through 'captchas' very well (Google it).

As for the prevalence of unprotected sexual practices, I think the lack of fear of pregnancy has gone a long way toward increasing the free-wheeling attitude of many men who have sex with men. Believe me, if men who have sex with men were to worry about a paternity suit being brought against them for child support payments, there'd be more condom use among MSMs. On the other side of the same coin -- I think it is pretty rare for a woman who is not a prostitute or a porno actress to 'take it' from a dozen or more men at a time. Go to a gay bath house and you'll find a dozen such men who do, routinely.

You are entitled to your opinion and to "agree with vengful-tenkatsu". I must, however, remind you that opinions are like assholes -- everyone has one.

Personally, I'd rather live in a world where people are judged based on the content of their character, rather than on any sort of label that one might care to apply to them, or that someone might want to apply to themselves.

I guess that means that I'm just not as superficial as you or vengful-tenkatsu.

Lastly, whoever said I would hide my bisexual nature or my homosexual experiences from any woman that I became involved with on an intimate level? I never said I would, and I won't.


BiDaveDtown, please read my posts more carefully, next time. I'm rather busy these days, and I cannot work overtime to correct your misapprehension. That's not a dig -- it's a sincere request.

Thanks in advance,
BBB

PS: BiDaveDtown, if you're so "out" and "front and center" about it, how come your profile is so non-descript? Why not post your real name and a full face pic?

You're the only one jumping to conclusions.

You can't claim that most gay and bisexual men do use crystal meth, that these men who use illegal drugs are somehow infecting other men with HIV, or that heterosexuals are so innocent and free from HIV, drug addiction, and deciding to have sex without condoms as we're now seeing a high rate of new HIV infections among heterosexual men and women, and not just bisexual and gay men.

It takes two to tango, men who use crystal meth and other drugs are not solely responsible for HIV infections.

There's such a thing as having safer sex and using a condom that I wrote about in a previous post, perhaps you've heard of doing this? You can have safer sex and use a condom correctly with someone who has HIV and you're not going to get infected.

The men who are getting infected with HIV are intentionally purposely deciding not to use condoms or have safer sex.

The fear or pregnancy does not stop hetero men and women from deciding not to use condoms as many heterosexual see condoms as something only to use when the woman is not on the pill or another type of birth control.

I know a lot of heterosexual men and women who don't get tested, don't use condoms or have safer sex, and think that they don't have to worry about HIV even though a lot of Hetero men and women are HIV+ and don't know it, or know it and don't tell.

We're also seeing the effects of this as we're now seeing a high rate of new HIV infections among heterosexual men and women, and they're getting infected from heterosexual sex with each other and not IV drug use or other ways.

[vengful-tenkatsu]

No, not ashamed. If you read BiBedBud's post it very closely mirrors what I think.

well i just said it may be that part of you shames you for being bi but with what ever you do be who you are because if you stop doing that you'll lose your self

[slipnslide]

well i just said it may be that part of you shames you for being bi but with what ever you do be who you are because if you stop doing that you'll lose your self

This is becoming drivel.

[slipnslide]

This thread has made me happy that I chose to not tell a lot of people about my sexuality. I've also gone back and updated a dating profile to no longer mention I'm bi. If I meet someone there's a time for bringing the subject up.

I've also nuked my grindr profile. I've made some friends from there, but along the thoughts of BBB, that could have professional implications for me. The air of mystique is way more fun anyhow.

[Maggot]

About as possible as I can be of becoming a recovering woman.