Huff Post: Bisexual Invisibility Has Dangerous Consequences

[Brian]

From the Huffington Post:

By Emily Dievendorf

Bisexual Invisibility Has Dangerous Consequences

The first time I was called "greedy" it was by a drag queen at the Michigan Pride Festival. She wasn't talking to me directly. She was calling out audience members in the unapologetic, hilarious, and crass way only a drag queen can, asking one attendee if she was a lesbian. The woman said, "No, I'm bi." The drag queen responded, "Oh, you're GREEEDY." Everyone laughed, myself included. But I also left thinking, "So that's how it is."

More... (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/emily-dievendorf/bisexual-invisibility-has_b_1370079.html)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/emily-dievendorf/bisexual-invisibility-has_b_1370079.html

[Long Duck Dong]

much of what is written in that article, is very accurate...... and its nice to read something by a person that tells it like it is without sugarcoating things.......

but the trouble is that she rolls out the same statements that so many roll out without dealing with the aspects of why what she is saying is true......


Bisexuals are seen as promiscuous, confused, invalid, incapable of monogamy, oversexed, greedy, going through a phase, and on and on...

most of that is correct for many bisexuals.... so to say that its wrong for people to see bisexuals that way, would be incorrect..... but its not always a insult to many bisexuals, its a reality....and if we deny that much of the bisexual community do not deal with those issues, then it is us that is practicing bisexual issue invisibility

promiscuous is something that we see a lot in the forums, its a aspect of any sexuality,....... confused? yes, bi curious, attraction confused, sexuality confused, many of us have been confused about ourselves and our sexuality at times....... oversexed, not me, but yes, some bisexuals can have a hypersex drive or a sexual addiction issue..... greedy, yes, some bisexuals want the best of all worlds........ going thru a phrase ? well for many our sexual attraction and interest does shift, but it doesn't make us any more or less bisexual......

but the above aspects are true of any sexuality...... and I can not help but notice that the author is unhappy cos much of the labeling of bisexuals doesn't really apply to her and so its kinda insulting......and I guess that can be true of any of us....... but the only way that she is going to make people more aware of how her bisexuality works for her, is to be out, visible and open to people about the way her sexuality works..... and she will be competing against bisexuals whose lifestyle match more of what is said about bisexuals........

bisexuality is a individual aspect as its unique to each person and therefore the way they express their sexuality, is different to the person standing each side of them......and the issue is that in order to clear up how your sexuality works for you, is to be out and open with people, .... so much for your right to privacy, lol

is it any surprise that the wearing of a label and living a difficult lifestyle, can affect so many bisexuals in the ways of depression, mental health, drug and alcohol abuse etc....... no, not to people like me that have spent years working to help people try and hang on to their sanity....... and the whole time they are dealing with pressure from within the bisexual community to conform to a *image * of bisexuality as people that enjoy both sexes, enjoy sex with both sexes, and need sex with both sexes... and in doing so, can *conform * to a lot of the stereotypes that are connected with the bisexual label

yes bisexual invisibility is bad alright, but the place it is starting is within the bisexual community as they seek to *weed* out the people that do not *fit * the bisexual label and * force * others that are bisexual but not using the label, to use the label.......and the label pushed forward, is the label that is supporting the stereotypes......

so.... how do we fix the unfixable ? ... by proving them right ?

[void()]

Another perception of bisexuals I love is that we are selfish. This one really puzzles me a great deal. I am the type of person that once I love you, it is eternal and unconditional. I will die, live, kill, let live for you if I love you.

"Honey, kill so and so ."

"erm, honey?"

"Sorry, needed to clean up gsr."

"I was joking."

"Oooops."

How can loving in such a way be selfish? So, I wind up lost when people toss this aspersion out there.

[Long Duck Dong]

void, it has a lot to do with the bisexuals that place their sex life before their partners, their families, their relationships etc..... and use the excuse that its cos they are bisexual.....

bisexuals are not selfish, its people that are selfish, bisexuality is the excuse that some of them use to justify their actions.... and then they blame their partners for everything else......

[Gearbox]

void, it has a lot to do with the bisexuals that place their sex life before their partners, their families, their relationships etc..... and use the excuse that its cos they are bisexual.....

bisexuals are not selfish, its people that are selfish, bisexuality is the excuse that some of them use to justify their actions.... and then they blame their partners for everything else......
How could promiscuity be selfish? Surely it's the complete opposite?:bigrin:
The people of any sexuality who demand sexual exclusivity are the selfish ones. They have no excuse at all for their actions, and would put themselves before the needs of their partners.
What exactly justifies their spite?

[Long Duck Dong]

lol ok....

monogamous people are not selfish, any more than open relationship people are selfish.... as there are a good many people in those types of relationships that are very happy and contented.......

the issue is when you get one of each person in a relationship, then the monogamous person is regarded as selfish but the open natured person is not regarded as selfish....
and it is interesting that people say its ok to force people to open up a relationship for the benefit of one partner, but its not ok for a person to say no, they do not wish to be in a open relationship......

as for having no reason,... there are a good many people that are monogamous natured cos they can not handle open relationships, yet they are quick to be labeled as insecure, selfish, needy people..... most of them are not, they just have no interest or desire in a open relationship... in the same way that you want a open relationship, but it doesn't mean that you are needy, greedy, unable to commit etc.. it just means that you are not a person that wants a monogamous relationship......

I am a firm believer in that monogamy doesn't work for everybody and nor does a open relationship.. so each to their own, and all the best.... but also, I am firm in my stance that there can never be a compromise in a relationship between a open and closed relationship as it can only be one or the other... and most of the time, its the monogamous natured person that ends up as the victim of cheating, lying and deceit....

btw, did you know that a monogamous and faithful person will never cheat on you..... but a person that is not monogamous, can cheat on you in a open relationship...lol

[Jobelorocks]

I've been called greedy by a friend because I was bisexual. I have been told that we can't truly love by a lesbian woman. If I can't love I don't know what I have for my husband. I left my family, friends, got excommunicated from my Church (when I could have broken up with my now husband then boyfriend and not have been), and moved across the country all for my husband. I would call that love. People just don't have an understanding of bisexuality and we are also not so visible and many fear it.

Also so many have had those negative experiences of a bisexual using their sexual identity as an excuse for cheating and lying. That gives us a bad name as a group (even though many of us are not that way) and has created a stereotype. The more we as a society learn the truth about bisexuality the more we will find acceptance.

[tenni]

I think that the article does a good job at raising consequential issues of Bi Invisibility as reported by such things as the San Fransico study peripherially . I think that she should have focused more on the consequences of Bi Invisibility. She makes no reference to media or organizational structures which were highlighted in these reports. I didn't really find that she pulled her thoughts together and only superficially pointed out the consequences. I didn't find that she had clearly connected her own personal experiences with the consequences of Bi Invisibility.

She writes "In gay rights we fight for the freedom to love and the freedom to express our desire without shame." So, once again do I see the use of "gay" as a generic term for being non heterosexual? Bisexuals and gay are synonymous?

She seems to write a bit more about acceptance from the gay community than the heterosexual mainstream society. She points out the myths held by gay/lesbians. She points out the sexuality of a couple is not what it may appear but I didn't quite understand her comment about her date disclosing her sexuality? Hopefully in some context or it would be strange for her to expect him to keep saying "Emily is bisexual you know" out of no where...lol

Bisexuals do not seem to have bisexual rights do we? Rights specific to bisexuals that at not about being gay do not seem to exist. Something to work on bisexuals? It seems that gay/lesbian are too busy with their own needs and rights.

As far as promiscuity. I personally think that needs a better branding when it comes to bisexuals. Bisexuals need to present that in a positive as it is generally seen as a negative...particularly by some vocal monogamists on this site who prostelize constantly.

[void()]

void, it has a lot to do with the bisexuals that place their sex life before their partners, their families, their relationships etc..... and use the excuse that its cos they are bisexual.....

bisexuals are not selfish, its people that are selfish, bisexuality is the excuse that some of them use to justify their actions.... and then they blame their partners for everything else......

Comes back to personal choice and acceptance of responsibility. First, I am a human being. I eat, sleep, shit, fuck, fish, hunt, write, jump off bridges, drive forklifts, toss around 250lb wooden apple bins, watch movies, listen to music, play with my dogs, mow lawns, use weed eaters, ... etc.. The point being I try to not use any of these as an excuse or justification.

I understand that people can make mistakes. I know I have and probably will continue doing so. I try to keep from repeating mistakes. If you don't learn from a mistake, you haven't gained experience.

Yes, being human is a valid excuse. It is because we are subjective animals whom grapple with objective ideas and abstractions. Subjectivity and objectivity are not always mutually exclusive but find them in sync is a real trick. We do need both lest we have neither.

Choosing not to learn, to not accept responsibility in my opinion isn't. Others have differing opinions. This only serves to illustrate our subjective natures. What may be correct for one is not specifically correct for all. We need to learn to agree to disagree and move forward. It is the twenty first century but we still have two main dogmas destroying our world over disagreement.

Both dogmas teach worship of the same god. That same god allegedly loves us all. Except both dogmas tell us he hates queers, dikes, trannies. At least they agree on something! Now, if we can get them to realize hate kills us all and they need to share with all, we might be okay.

Won't hold my breath.

Apologies for winding this in such a direction. It's all congruent to me, often forget it is not for everyone else, or everyone else chooses to not let it be. *shrugs*

[darkeyes]

Bisexuals do not seem to have bisexual rights do we? Rights specific to bisexuals that at not about being gay do not seem to exist. Something to work on bisexuals? It seems that gay/lesbian are too busy with their own needs and rights.


I do wish sometimes u would stop sounding so bitter an' twisted, tenni.. u have the right to fuck a guy and u have the right to fuck a girl.. u have the right to fuck both and as many of each as u can cope wiv in the same session.. that, sweetheart, is bisexual rights.. its a human right.. as long as its all done consensually.. of course we are busy with our own needs and rights.. but not all of us forget urs as u seem 2 make out.. what specificly bisexual right do u not have? The right to call urself bisexual and recognised as such? U have that.. I agree there are those in both the straight and gay communities who don't accept it, but most do... but legally u have that right.. and in time u'll get there.. but that is as much in the hands of the bisexual community as the gay, lesbian or str8 communites..

[tenni]

REALLY darkeyes! OH thanks. So no bisexual will ever be told that they are wrong, greedy, you're really gay, etc. from now on. We may turn to our laws and see such rights.

Legally, bisexuals do not have the right to have both a male and female partner with all the rights of marriage. There's one for ya fran.

[darkeyes]

REALLY darkeyes! OH thanks. So no bisexual will ever be told that they are wrong, greedy, you're really gay, etc. from now on. We may turn to our laws and see such rights.

Legally, bisexuals do not have the right to have both a male and female partner with all the rights of marriage. There's one for ya fran.
Bigamy or polygamy aren't specifically bisexual rights... it is perfectly feasible for heterosexual people to enter into polygamous or bigamous marriages and they do in cartain parts of the world as u well know..... however where such marriages are legal, these tend to be for the benefit of the male..... so we have a sexist issue at least as much as we have a bisexual issue... arguably more so.. and neither can gays or lesbians marry or be legally partnered to more than one person in most countries that allow such marriages or partnerships.... I said specifically bisexual, tenni... nothing u have outlined is specifically bisexual...

..and of course u will be called names... so are gay and lesbian people... by both heterosexual and bisexual people... as are straight people by people across the lgbt... and the transgendered by others in the lgbt and by heterosexuals... that it shouldn't occur I agree, but bisexuals aren't the only ones who are insulted by those of other sexualities.. a little education and good manners wouldn't go amiss.. but things are getting better but still have a long way to go.. o yea while I think of it, neither would a little greater thickness of skin be a bad thing...

[tenni]

Bigamy or polygamy aren't specifically bisexual rights... it is perfectly feasible for heterosexual people to enter into polygamous or bigamous marriages and they do in cartain parts of the world as u well know..... however where such marriages are legal, these tend to be for the benefit of the male..... so we have a sexist issue at least as much as we have a bisexual issue... arguably more so.. and neither can gays or lesbians marry or be legally partnered to more than one person in most countries that allow such marriages or partnerships.... I said specifically bisexual, tenni... nothing u have outlined is specifically bisexual...

..and of course u will be called names... so are gay and lesbian people... by both heterosexual and bisexual people... as are straight people by people across the lgbt... and the transgendered by others in the lgbt and by heterosexuals... that it shouldn't occur I agree, but bisexuals aren't the only ones who are insulted by those of other sexualities.. a little education and good manners wouldn't go amiss.. but things are getting better but still have a long way to go.. o yea while I think of it, neither would a little greater thickness of skin be a bad thing...

I sense that we are going in circles. Same sex marriage is not "specifically a bisexual right" either but it benefits your bisexual partner. What concerns me about your speaking out on denying any discussion of bisexual rights as unique to bisexuals is that you are speaking from a lesbian perspective and feel entitled to do so because you once saw yourself as bisexual. This is an on going issue on this site and a flaw imo.

Whether a more open or poly marriage would benefit others than bisexuals does not eliminate it as a need for a bisexual right imo. It doesn't mean that sincere bisexual social activists might begin to formulate a presentation to contexualize bisexuality and multi partners as being needed. I think that one reason why same sex marriage argument worked for gays is that they did mimic what heteros do as far as coupling. There are gays living a poly lifestyle and are very multi partner active. Politically that and gay promiscuity was all toned down as gays began to demand marriage rights like heteros. Is there a more logical rationale for a bisexual's need for multi partners? Which is more rational and logical heteros, gay or bis? I don't think that a majority of bisexuals would initially want a multi partner marriage based on cultural background just as many gays rejected same sex marriage as just copying heteros form of relationship.

Based on your words I can not but wonder if you are practising bi erasure? Oh, those bis are like the rest of us human? No need to look any further. There were a lot of gays who didn't want same sex marriage as I recall in my area. Still some activists went ahead formulating a presentation.

I do not feel confident that much comes out of this site as far as bi politics are concerned. Yet, we are told make ourselves out. What for? What benefit is there? If there was a cause, I might join it. I'm inclined that way. A lot of other bisexuals on this site may not be so inclined. This is a frustrating and depressing site at times.

NOW...ALL of this discussion is more likely off topic with regard to the article but then the article is a bit messy in its presentation as well. I've taken us off the topic a bit by focusing on her one sentence. Sorry.

[darkeyes]

I sense that we are going in circles. Same sex marriage is not "specifically a bisexual right" either but it benefits your bisexual partner. What concerns me about your speaking out on denying any discussion of bisexual rights as unique to bisexuals is that you are speaking from a lesbian perspective and feel entitled to do so because you once saw yourself as bisexual. This is an on going issue on this site and a flaw imo.

Whether a more open or poly marriage would benefit others than bisexuals does not make it a need for a bisexual right imo. It doesn't mean that sincere bisexual social activists might begin to formulate a presentation to contexualize bisexuality and mulit partners as being needed. I think that one reason why same sex marriage argument worked for gays is that they did mimic what heteros do as far as coupling. There are gays living a poly lifestyle and are very multi partner active. Politically that was all toned down as gays began to demand marriage rights like heteros.

Based on your words I can not but wonder if you are practising bi erasure? Oh, those bis are like the rest of us human? No need to look any further. There were a lot of gays who didn't want same sex marriage as I recall in my area. Still some activists went ahead formulating a presentation.

I do not feel confident that much comes out of this site as far as bi politics are concerned. Yet, we are told make ourselves out. What for? What benefit is there? If there was a cause, I might join it. I'm inclined that way. A lot of other bisexuals on this site may not be so inclined. This is a frustrating and depressing site at times.
For goodness sake, tenni, I know very well what bisexuals go through and the difficulties they face.. I was actively bisexual for a dozen years and more so wheesht man about this being from a lesbian perspective.. it is not.. for a start me partner would be down me neck if she thought that.. an' not sexually either.. when u come up with something that is specific to bisexuals and bisexuals alone I will agree with u.. when u rabbit on about things which can be applied to other sexualities and claim them as bisexual alone then I will take issue with u..

I am as supportive of bisexuals as anyone... even u.. the fact that u and I may disagree about some things doesn't change that.. if this argument is circular it is because what u perceive as specifically bisexual issues are in fact human issues applicable to more than bisexuals and bisexuality.. but u just can't see that.. it is not just gays who started to argue for same sex marriage rights but bisexuals too for many same sex couples are bisexual and many more have both a bisexual and gay or lesbian as part of the pairing.. even many heterosexuals, long since supporters of gay and bisexual rights, have long argued for marriage equality for same sex couples..

This site can be depressing sometimes I agree, but not in this instance.. it is not depressing because it shows that people think about the issues and are trying to do something to help resolve them.. and I include u in that number, tenni, even if I think u talk through ur hat sometimes and no doubt u gnash ur teeth in frustration when u think I do through mine.. we have precisely the same goals in mind, tenni... our arguments may differ, but that's all..

[slipnslide]

Bisexuals do not seem to have bisexual rights do we? Rights specific to bisexuals that at not about being gay do not seem to exist. Something to work on bisexuals? It seems that gay/lesbian are too busy with their own needs and rights.



What are you talking about? Is there a single law that explicitly addresses any specific sexuality?

[Gearbox]

lol ok....

monogamous people are not selfish, any more than open relationship people are selfish.... as there are a good many people in those types of relationships that are very happy and contented.......

the issue is when you get one of each person in a relationship, then the monogamous person is regarded as selfish but the open natured person is not regarded as selfish....
and it is interesting that people say its ok to force people to open up a relationship for the benefit of one partner, but its not ok for a person to say no, they do not wish to be in a open relationship......

as for having no reason,... there are a good many people that are monogamous natured cos they can not handle open relationships, yet they are quick to be labeled as insecure, selfish, needy people..... most of them are not, they just have no interest or desire in a open relationship... in the same way that you want a open relationship, but it doesn't mean that you are needy, greedy, unable to commit etc.. it just means that you are not a person that wants a monogamous relationship......

I am a firm believer in that monogamy doesn't work for everybody and nor does a open relationship.. so each to their own, and all the best.... but also, I am firm in my stance that there can never be a compromise in a relationship between a open and closed relationship as it can only be one or the other... and most of the time, its the monogamous natured person that ends up as the victim of cheating, lying and deceit....

btw, did you know that a monogamous and faithful person will never cheat on you..... but a person that is not monogamous, can cheat on you in a open relationship...lol
You must know that cheaters claim to be monogamous and faithful? That's why they are cheaters.lol
Have you never heard, "I had a few too many, and one thing led to another.....", from the devout faithful? They are mere mortals after all.

Nobody can make a monogamous partner sleep around. They can encourage them to, and even supply the people to sleep around with. But forcing them to have sex is rape. That is thankfully very rare as far as I know.
No, they can be as monogamous as they like. But they also want their partners to be as monogamous as they like too, and that's where selfishness comes in. The partner who opts for 'sleeping around' is blamed for selfishly depriving the other of his/her sexual exclusivity, which is a selfish desire in itself. Spiting the spiteful?lol

When monogamy works, it works wonders! When two (or more) people are quite happy to focus all their sexual needs and emotions on each other, it can be a haven of calm and contentment. I've been monogamous and it does cut a lot of crap out of life. Which we could ALL do with.
But for that to really work, not just pretend that it does, or to just make do with it etc, both/all partners need to be emotionally, sexually contented and honestly satisfied within their own sexuality exploration. Or one day it will suddenly dawn on them that they are not free as a person.

Honesty is harder to find in a monogamous relationship. It's rules inspire deceit and suppression, as each are wardens of the other. BUT not surprisingly, if monogamy is the result of denying any reigns on each other, it has more chance of surviving as such. No insecurities, no fears, no conditions, just the pleasure of each other as whoever or whatever they may be and do.

Some will still cheat, and some will still possess. They are no better than each other.

[Long Duck Dong]

yes i know that cheaters claim to be monogamous and faithful...... lol ......

lol the few too many is something that I have seen many times, and I do feel sorry for most of the people... specially the ones that normally do not have a few too many... and it goes wrong... cos some of them set the world record for feeling so guilty.... its the people that will always blame the drink or the other person or the south wind shifting to the east as it moves a iceberg over the dead sea, that I am inclined not to see in the same light....

personally I would blame myself...but I am not one for using excuses for my behievour.....and I have done some real stupid things in my life......

sexual expression is often selfish as its about you, not your partner.... so people seek to change the relationship for themselves, not themselves and their partner.... in the same way that monogamy ( possessive monogamy I should say ) is about ones own needs, wants and desires, not the desires of both partners..... so yes, I agree with you.... but I just do not or will not blame one person for things, when it takes two people ( or more ) to have a relationship.......

monogamy is often freer and more open than a open relationship and more honest too.... as your partner knows that you are committed to the relationship and to them.... most open relationships have to make rules about the level of honesty in the relationship.... how amusing is that... people have to make rules to define honesty with a partner lol

gear, as a person that is open about their interest in a working open relationship, you have my respect... cos it shows a level of honesty that can be hard on a person when it costs them the chance at a good relationship cos one person wants monogamy and you say no thank you, I would rather be single.... people may see you as selfish and only thinking of yourself... but honesty, I see that as walking a hard road but being honest and true to yourself, without costing others their dream relationship

[tenni]

What are you talking about? Is there a single law that explicitly addresses any specific sexuality?

An interesting point. Many might argue that same sex marriage and equality issues on sex has been based on the demand from gays and lesbians. It is only peripheral that it may involve bisexuals. That doesn't really deny the need for bisexual rights being denied via Bi Invisibility.

The fact that bisexuals suffer from illness etc. at a higher incidence than G&L etc. indicates that all is not well. Bi Invisibility may have many/most bisexuals not really capable of coming up with rights that may help with these consequences of Bi Invisibility. Where are the studies and researchers philosophizing about bisexual needs? Where is the money for these studies being spent in the GLBT organizations if bisexuals are the largest group and suffering?

[slipnslide]

The fact that bisexuals suffer from illness etc. at a higher incidence than G&L etc. indicates that all is not well. Bi Invisibility may have many/most bisexuals not really capable of coming up with rights that may help with these consequences of Bi Invisibility. Where are the studies and researchers philosophizing about bisexual needs? Where is the money for these studies being spent in the GLBT organizations if bisexuals are the largest group and suffering?

I haven't seen anything that says the numbers are or aren't statistically significant. Then we haven't seen anything that implies correlation or causation for those numbers. Is their sexuality causing the illness, or is bisexuality a consequence of the same mechanisms that cause the illness?

Either way, no law will fix any of this.

[tenni]

I haven't seen anything that says the numbers are or aren't statistically significant. Then we haven't seen anything that implies correlation or causation for those numbers. Is their sexuality causing the illness, or is bisexuality a consequence of the same mechanisms that cause the illness?

Either way, no law will fix any of this.

Look up (google) the San Francisco study on Bi Invisibility by the San Francisco Human Rights Commission. It comes up on google as Bisexual Invisibility for my search.

This SF report (maybe the most recent British report as well) is where I suspect that the author of the article got a lot of her information from. I recall some studies were done in Canada and other countries. That SF report referred to studies about the illnesses, depression, issues about couples one bi one monosexual I recall. The report also refers to studies that found the numbers of bisexuals as being the largest group in the GLBT umbrella.

As to laws, well all things are not covered by laws(ie representation on GLBT boards having no or under represented numbers of bisexuals). Funds that may come from government agencies for GLBT organizations may be pressured to insist that a greater percentage of fund be spent on bisexuals counselling (separate from gay & lesbian). I am uncertain and suspect that no government funds go to such organizations in Canada though. The inequity found in the SF report indicates that at least there there is an error and injustice as to how bisexuals are treated in some GLBT organizations.

[slipnslide]

Okay, but when it comes to bisexuals who care, you're now talking about a small fraction of a small fraction. That hardly warrants public funding.

The politically active class of bisexuals doesn't speak for the majority. In most situations, the political activists are way off at the edge of the issue.

Once you're out of that bubble, there is no issue. I, and others on this site, are perfectly happy with the state of bisexuals in the world. There is nothing that needs to be fixed.

I believe too many bisexuals are taking their own problems, blaming it on their sexuality, and then looking for someone else to take responsibility.

Can you name a specific issue that stems from your sexuality that is the public's responsibility to tackle?

[drugstore cowboy]

I do wish sometimes u would stop sounding so bitter an' twisted, tenni.. u have the right to fuck a guy and u have the right to fuck a girl.. u have the right to fuck both and as many of each as u can cope wiv in the same session.. that, sweetheart, is bisexual rights.. its a human right.. as long as its all done consensually.. of course we are busy with our own needs and rights.. but not all of us forget urs as u seem 2 make out.. what specificly bisexual right do u not have? The right to call urself bisexual and recognised as such? U have that.. I agree there are those in both the straight and gay communities who don't accept it, but most do... but legally u have that right.. and in time u'll get there.. but that is as much in the hands of the bisexual community as the gay, lesbian or str8 communites..
REALLY darkeyes! OH thanks. So no bisexual will ever be told that they are wrong, greedy, you're really gay, etc. from now on. We may turn to our laws and see such rights. Legally, bisexuals do not have the right to have both a male and female partner with all the rights of marriage. There's one for ya fran. There you have it Tenni. What Darkeyes said is a classic defense by biphobic gay men and lesbian women. Biphobic gay men and lesbians love to push bisexuals and our rights to the back of the bus and claim that the rights of gay men and lesbians are somehow more important, pressing, and whatever other BS they spout out of bigotry.

[tenni]

Slippy (post 21)

I agree and I suspect that activist for various causes are out there ahead of the mainstream attitude. In the case of bisexuals many bisexuals are struggling trying to be monosexual monogamists etc. The stats are in the study as to bisexuals problems and issues. You may accept them or reject them and blame these people in the studies for blaming their problems on their sexuality(which the studies disagrees with I believe).

I don't think that my own situation falls under the category of depression etc. due to my sexuality. It may have at certain earlier times of my life though. In our (Canadian) society, we do believe that counselling etc. may be paid for by the state depending upon a variety of factors. One of those factors may end up being pressure on the medical and political system to provide assistance. We see it all the time in Canada. Whether more research or pressure via activism is needed I don't know. I think that we all can have moments. I am finding that reaching out to bisexual men in person is helping me. I am finding validation (which flies in defiance of some vocal posters here) from these bimen that I speak with in person or one on one.

[darkeyes]

There you have it Tenni. What Darkeyes said is a classic defense by biphobic gay men and lesbian women. Biphobic gay men and lesbians love to push bisexuals and our rights to the back of the bus and claim that the rights of gay men and lesbians are somehow more important, pressing, and whatever other BS they spout out of bigotry.
Is it painful talking out of ur arse? I really think u should take more care in studying what people say before u do it...

[drugstore cowboy]

Is it painful talking out of ur arse? I really think u should take more care in studying what people say before u do it... Your nonsense and drivel doesn't even merit a reply. I'm not talking out of my ass unlike everything you post which just shows how little you know. What I wrote is true even if Gay and Lesbian Inc. wants to pretend that they're all for bisexuals many will tell you that the rights of bisexuals, and even Trans people don't matter compared to those of gay men and lesbians.

[slipnslide]

Your nonsense and drivel doesn't even merit a reply.

BUT HERE'S ONE ANYWAY!

:rolleyes:

[IanBorthwick]

What are you talking about? Is there a single law that explicitly addresses any specific sexuality?

Hate Crime laws in the US now specifically state the LGBT community and all sexualities incorporated within that community to be specifically protected within that sphere of context, I know this because an FBI employee/Agent shoved a leaflet into my hand at Pride. I recommend going now and then.

Same Sex marriage laws are specific to the LGBT community and all the sexualities within also, either exclusory or inclusory dependent on the laws or acts invoked in the states. I think you're smart enough not to need the reasons and the sexualities named in those laws, right?


I haven't seen anything that says the numbers are or aren't statistically significant. Then we haven't seen anything that implies correlation or causation for those numbers. Is their sexuality causing the illness, or is bisexuality a consequence of the same mechanisms that cause the illness?

Either way, no law will fix any of this.

Then I wonder if the world has to be served to you on a silver platter for you to see anything, or if you're operating with your eyes Wide Shut.

Here's what I got in a few minutes of looking, of course, I had to do some work to get specifics, but I'll stick to one that I believe is significant.

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html

Suicide is the 11th leading cause of death in the US, as of 2001. By 2012 it rose in rank and numbers by 6000 deaths, 90% of which were men. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm

Bisexuals have a 3 times greater chance of successfully committing suicide than heterosexuals. The clip below is not totally accurate as it lumps gay men into the same category but are actually double the rates of Heteros.

http://www.gaypasg.org/gaypasg/PressClippings/2002/August%202002/Suicide%20Rate%20for%20Gay,%20Bisexual%20Men%203%2 0Times%20Higher.htm

HIV Deaths per year in the US are WELL below the 23,000 mark, not even nearing the suicide deaths per year, which our community is at major risk for, and it has beau coup funding both governmental and private/charitable donations for.

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=us&v=37

So one has to ask, is your lack of seeing this myopia or just a bias in the Christian metaphor of "None so blind..."? With a little effort and imagination, as Sherlock Holmes knew, one could piece together the facts. You, sir, seem to have no motivation to know the truth, and seem to me, in all honesty, to want Bisexuals NOT to have their own identity and care. But the facts are that you want data served to you without effort and have a complete lack of desire to see that there are reasons we need to have Visibility int he world at large. YOur very question of whether it is our sexuality that causes the issue or our treatment INDICATES a need to know MORE, but we already know enough to know we don't know enough and we need to pursue this. Your statement makes that ridiculously clear.


Okay, but when it comes to bisexuals who care, you're now talking about a small fraction of a small fraction. That hardly warrants public funding.

The politically active class of bisexuals doesn't speak for the majority. In most situations, the political activists are way off at the edge of the issue.

Once you're out of that bubble, there is no issue. I, and others on this site, are perfectly happy with the state of bisexuals in the world. There is nothing that needs to be fixed.

I believe too many bisexuals are taking their own problems, blaming it on their sexuality, and then looking for someone else to take responsibility.

Can you name a specific issue that stems from your sexuality that is the public's responsibility to tackle?


Translation: In YOUR opinion there is no reason to think that it's more than a few people puling and whining, after all, who cares about the minority and how they are treated in this world. And most of the people active in politics, in your opinion, do not speak for YOU. But somehow YOU speak for many bisexuals and your words, despite being all opinion, have as much weight as fact or MORE when dealing with those who have issues with the state of how we're treated. And you want to know specific issues so you can take a Right Wing stance against the public doing ANYTHING to curb its bad behavior so you want to know what issues stem our sexuality so you can argue them down with more opinion and less fact. And this entire passage is my OPINION and I give it more weight than your experiences....

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
― Isaac Asimov (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/16667.Isaac_Asimov)

The issues have names, ones you don't like but are there still. Bi-Erasure, Bi-invisibility and the simple fact we're discriminated against in our own community. had some of us not encountered it, there would be no names for the type of bigotry nor people who could recount tales of it happening which this site is filled with, more so than the tale you tell of those who say they are "Happy with the state of things."

YOU, sirrah, don't speak for me. Both you and Fran have your heads int he sand and pretend to speak for us as if we were either dotards or infants incapable of seeing the real world. No matter how many facts we toss your way or things we've seen, or numbers of people who have seen then, your stance is you are the only wisdom that has graced this site and all other are invalid by the very fact it doesn't flow from you and others who think like you. You suffer from a level of cognitive dissonance that is absolutely surreal, and your desire to seem valid by indicating a fatuous reality that there are more who are like you than not is a pathetic attempt to create Argumentum Ad Numerum. Sad, really, since that attempt means that if you have more people siding with you(you don't don't, but to play this stupidity out) their uninformed opinion counts more than facts. To wit, if you had enough of them together you could vote gravity out of existence or the Earth back to being flat.

Epic in its failure when you look at it without the Rose Tinted glasses.

[void()]

When the issues these bisexuals care about affect the public interest,
then yes the public should aid in their cause/s. Use of fear and hate
against others whom are different is an atrocity. It is one we as the
whole of humanity must stop.

I suffer from depression not wholly based upon sexuality. There are
other factors involved. One is a need of testosterone, it helps
restore chemical balance in my body. Take a look at the recent cost of
this (1). I was able to attain the 15ml vials for $25 each. These gave
me access to about three to four months of doses.

Then, out of the blue in about 2002 15ml suddenly became $99 each. I
contacted my doctor's office regarding this. They said to talk to the
FDA. The FDA it turns out had shut down one of two companies in the
U.S. producing the medicine. But they said as a government agency they
could not endorse any one particular company.

Now, a 5ml dose which is only 1 shot costs $83-$100. I have a legitimate
and legal prescription for it. My body needs it. But I have not taken
it since about 2002 because it is unaffordable, and seeing a doctor to
reinstated or deny the prescription would be as well. We have no
insurance because it too is beyond our means to afford.

Another factor is incurred in the media and our current state of
America as a battlefield. And before anyone suggests this is paranoia,
ask any U.S. soldier what the order to rout out any domestic
insurgency by whatever is needed, means.

My time as a soldier taught me that meant anyone you suspect as an
insurgent is automatically classed as a hostile enemy combatant,
therefore lethal force is authorized. You're wearing a bandana as a
mask while mowing your front yard on main street? Pow! You were seen
as a threat.

Luckily, so far cooler heads prevail. Read the articles about the guys
in Afghanistan posted here recently? These guys are coming home all
bent and twisted. How long before cooler heads vanish?

I am also depressed about clear cutting of forests just to make a
sheet of notebook paper. Depressed over a plethora of environmental
issues which culminate into something called climate change. Look at
the record heat waves going on recently. Dare you to tell me something
isn't wrong or at least different. Go on tell me how it's all in my
head.

Depressed to that I can not attain adequate employment without needing
to work six days a week, 12-16 hours a day to just afford
living. Forget going to school too, that's as costly as medical if not
more so.

I'm lucky to find a free system admin course at a local technical
center. Will probably bear paying for books and certification tests,
will have to try to do that too. I seem to have a bit of a knack with
computers. The field does not exactly require I have a sense of smell
either.

Yeah, lots of jobs require or infer required sense of smell. I have no
sense of smell. I'm not angry at these jobs. There are valid reasons
for such a requirement. It does limit what I can legitimately do,
though.

I also do not drive cars. I can operate a forklift, a tank, riding
tractors or mowers, some helicopter/s and jet/s, boats, cars are a
problem. Don't know why. Figure that's better left to the mental
experts.

And yes, I have tried driving cars, had people take me out to learn. I
do okay but mentally there is a huge block and I get scared really
bad. That fear paralyzes me in a car, not good. So, I don't drive
them. Point being I don't technically drive. Another limit.

Causes of depressions are not expressly due to one's sexuality or lack
of it. Sexuality is part of human nature, as are the subjects I write
about above. I do not blame anyone. Things are as they are. It seems
there isn't much anyone can or wants to do about them. I got tired of
kicking dead horses.

No reason to keep point out these huge flaws or failures. No one gives
a shit. And the mental experts I have talked with just offer a pill to
get legally stoned on. It helps a bit, yet like getting drunk to
forget doesn't really help.

People here bitch and complain. Solves nothing. Going to be what it is
and tough shit if you don't care for it. Bohica. My responsibility in
it is simple. I stop caring too, stop bothering to bitch, life moves
along a little easier. Acceptance is not compliance nor does it infer
liking it. Acceptance is a means of survival, coping.


(1) Example cost of testosterone: http://goo.gl/331Be

[slipnslide]

Hate Crime laws in the US now specifically state the LGBT community and all sexualities incorporated within that community to be specifically protected within that sphere of context, I know this because an FBI employee/Agent shoved a leaflet into my hand at Pride. I recommend going now and then.

Same Sex marriage laws are specific to the LGBT community and all the sexualities within also, either exclusory or inclusory dependent on the laws or acts invoked in the states. I think you're smart enough not to need the reasons and the sexualities named in those laws, right?

Can you post a link to one of these laws? Canadian law simply states you cannot discriminate. It doesn't actually attempt to itemize all sexualities.

You're completely missing the point about suicide. Simply stating that this group's suicide rate is X and this group's suicide rate is Y and X is some multiple of Y therefore this group is X/Y times more likely is poor science. You need to determine whether those numbers are statistically significant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_significance

In fact, one of those links you posted even says that the previous research was a mess and the current numbers are lower - but doesn't address whether given sample size differences, etc, that those numbers actually mean anything.

The world was appalled at the Foxconn suicide numbers - then they found out they're similar to the rates for the rest of China. Data analysis matters.



YOU, sirrah, don't speak for me. Both you and Fran have your heads int he sand and pretend to speak for us as if we were either dotards or infants incapable of seeing the real world. No matter how many facts we toss your way or things we've seen, or numbers of people who have seen then, your stance is you are the only wisdom that has graced this site and all other are invalid by the very fact it doesn't flow from you and others who think like you. You suffer from a level of cognitive dissonance that is absolutely surreal, and your desire to seem valid by indicating a fatuous reality that there are more who are like you than not is a pathetic attempt to create Argumentum Ad Numerum. Sad, really, since that attempt means that if you have more people siding with you(you don't don't, but to play this stupidity out) their uninformed opinion counts more than facts. To wit, if you had enough of them together you could vote gravity out of existence or the Earth back to being flat.

Epic in its failure when you look at it without the Rose Tinted glasses.

You're clearly very angry. I suspect that growing up people often spoke down to you so now you suspect everyone is doing that and you lash out and attempt the same.

As such, I'm not going to justify any further responses to your foaming and frothing rants.

[slipnslide]

When the issues these bisexuals care about affect the public interest,
then yes the public should aid in their cause/s. Use of fear and hate
against others whom are different is an atrocity. It is one we as the
whole of humanity must stop.

Are you okay void? This was kind of all over the place and I'm not sure what you were saying.

[void()]

I am saying there is a lot of crap bothering everyone. When bisexuals tackle crap that bothers everyone, then yes everyone else should support them.

Further saying, I don't point fingers or call out blame any more. There's no point because no one gives a rat's ass. Just fix all the crap.

If you aren't helping fix it, then you're part of the crap. Sorry for seeing it that way but there's really not much other choice in how to see it. If that bothers you, might consider trying to be helpful.

And I'm also saying that yes, I know that mental issues cause me to see things differently. That doesn't excuse crap being crap, especially not when I'm not alone in seeing it for crap. Apparently I can at times see things clearly.

I can also say things clearly at times too and thought I did a fair job of it. I am going to start hiring a translator so, when I tell someone "fuck you" then the translator can politely convey that I said fuck you.

And no, "fuck you" was not what I intended to say in the last posting. Just in case you think that was the summation of the post. There's a lot more empathetic evocation behind it than a simple "fuck you".

And now back into ignore land for you because I recall why you are there.

[slipnslide]

I can also say things clearly at times too and thought I did a fair job of it. I am going to start hiring a translator so, when I tell someone "fuck you" then the translator can politely convey that I said fuck you.

And now back into ignore land for you because I recall why you are there.

LULZ.

[pepperjack]

Comes back to personal choice and acceptance of responsibility. First, I am a human being. I eat, sleep, shit, fuck, fish, hunt, write, jump off bridges, drive forklifts, toss around 250lb wooden apple bins, watch movies, listen to music, play with my dogs, mow lawns, use weed eaters, ... etc.. The point being I try to not use any of these as an excuse or justification.

I understand that people can make mistakes. I know I have and probably will continue doing so. I try to keep from repeating mistakes. If you don't learn from a mistake, you haven't gained experience.

Yes, being human is a valid excuse. It is because we are subjective animals whom grapple with objective ideas and abstractions. Subjectivity and objectivity are not always mutually exclusive but find them in sync is a real trick. We do need both lest we have neither.

Choosing not to learn, to not accept responsibility in my opinion isn't. Others have differing opinions. This only serves to illustrate our subjective natures. What may be correct for one is not specifically correct for all. We need to learn to agree to disagree and move forward. It is the twenty first century but we still have two main dogmas destroying our world over disagreement.

Both dogmas teach worship of the same god. That same god allegedly loves us all. Except both dogmas tell us he hates queers, dikes, trannies. At least they agree on something! Now, if we can get them to realize hate kills us all and they need to share with all, we might be okay.

Won't hold my breath.

Apologies for winding this in such a direction. It's all congruent to me, often forget it is not for everyone else, or everyone else chooses to not let it be. *shrugs*


"If you don't learn from a mistake, you haven't learned experience." Hypocrisy! "Apologies?" Phony head-game! The unemployed, defeated-by-the world sage presumes to cast judgment.:smilies15

[pepperjack]

When the issues these bisexuals care about affect the public interest,
then yes the public should aid in their cause/s. Use of fear and hate
against others whom are different is an atrocity. It is one we as the
whole of humanity must stop.

I suffer from depression not wholly based upon sexuality. There are
other factors involved. One is a need of testosterone, it helps
restore chemical balance in my body. Take a look at the recent cost of
this (1). I was able to attain the 15ml vials for $25 each. These gave
me access to about three to four months of doses.

Then, out of the blue in about 2002 15ml suddenly became $99 each. I
contacted my doctor's office regarding this. They said to talk to the
FDA. The FDA it turns out had shut down one of two companies in the
U.S. producing the medicine. But they said as a government agency they
could not endorse any one particular company.

Now, a 5ml dose which is only 1 shot costs $83-$100. I have a legitimate
and legal prescription for it. My body needs it. But I have not taken
it since about 2002 because it is unaffordable, and seeing a doctor to
reinstated or deny the prescription would be as well. We have no
insurance because it too is beyond our means to afford.

Another factor is incurred in the media and our current state of
America as a battlefield. And before anyone suggests this is paranoia,
ask any U.S. soldier what the order to rout out any domestic
insurgency by whatever is needed, means.

My time as a soldier taught me that meant anyone you suspect as an
insurgent is automatically classed as a hostile enemy combatant,
therefore lethal force is authorized. You're wearing a bandana as a
mask while mowing your front yard on main street? Pow! You were seen
as a threat.

Luckily, so far cooler heads prevail. Read the articles about the guys
in Afghanistan posted here recently? These guys are coming home all
bent and twisted. How long before cooler heads vanish?

I am also depressed about clear cutting of forests just to make a
sheet of notebook paper. Depressed over a plethora of environmental
issues which culminate into something called climate change. Look at
the record heat waves going on recently. Dare you to tell me something
isn't wrong or at least different. Go on tell me how it's all in my
head.

Depressed to that I can not attain adequate employment without needing
to work six days a week, 12-16 hours a day to just afford
living. Forget going to school too, that's as costly as medical if not
more so.

I'm lucky to find a free system admin course at a local technical
center. Will probably bear paying for books and certification tests,
will have to try to do that too. I seem to have a bit of a knack with
computers. The field does not exactly require I have a sense of smell
either.

Yeah, lots of jobs require or infer required sense of smell. I have no
sense of smell. I'm not angry at these jobs. There are valid reasons
for such a requirement. It does limit what I can legitimately do,
though.

I also do not drive cars. I can operate a forklift, a tank, riding
tractors or mowers, some helicopter/s and jet/s, boats, cars are a
problem. Don't know why. Figure that's better left to the mental
experts.

And yes, I have tried driving cars, had people take me out to learn. I
do okay but mentally there is a huge block and I get scared really
bad. That fear paralyzes me in a car, not good. So, I don't drive
them. Point being I don't technically drive. Another limit.

Causes of depressions are not expressly due to one's sexuality or lack
of it. Sexuality is part of human nature, as are the subjects I write
about above. I do not blame anyone. Things are as they are. It seems
there isn't much anyone can or wants to do about them. I got tired of
kicking dead horses.

No reason to keep point out these huge flaws or failures. No one gives
a shit. And the mental experts I have talked with just offer a pill to
get legally stoned on. It helps a bit, yet like getting drunk to
forget doesn't really help.

People here bitch and complain. Solves nothing. Going to be what it is
and tough shit if you don't care for it. Bohica. My responsibility in
it is simple. I stop caring too, stop bothering to bitch, life moves
along a little easier. Acceptance is not compliance nor does it infer
liking it. Acceptance is a means of survival, coping.


(1) Example cost of testosterone: http://goo.gl/331Be


CRY ME A RIVER! Why am I thinking Sandra Fluke while reading this? Try a steak with potatoes and a nicely chilled beer.:rolleyes: