Monogamist "natured" versus non monogamous "natured"

[tenni]

Yep...another one of those threads...:love87::yikes2:

Some posters lately have been referring to "monogamist natured" or "non monogamist natured". I suspect that "they"will come to this thread to educate and explain these terms as not connected to nature but yada yada ... Until then or probably after..... ;)

It is the ol question of "nature versus nurture".
Are we born in a certain way or are we conditioned to act in a certain way? (ie. society rewards us for being either monogamist or non monogamist)

No one is proven to be born monogamist or a non monogamist.

Monogamy has not been proven to be genetic, natural or natured based in humans (whatever buzz words some people are picking up/using on this site). It is much more influenced by social conditioning imo. Mainstream morality supports monogamy as "good" and non monogamy as "bad". We are encultured with these thoughts to a great extent.

Although there has been some speculation that in heterosexual voles(non human) there may be hormonal factors involved in voles (non human) monogamy. There seems to be no study nor evidence or proof about bisexuals. Even the heterosexual study is highly speculative when it comes to observing heterosexual men based upon a gene (RS3 334). Next the same scientist were going to examine altruism and jealousy with the same receptor.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14641-monogamy-gene-found-in-people.html

[DuckiesDarling]

Since you posted an old news article, I'll post a writing I found on fetlife that very eloquently explains how it can be both, nature and nurture but always a choice. People change as they grow in life but some are just not able to "share" and they should not be denigrated or called jealous and insecure they are free to have their choice as those that want to be poly have the freedom to make that choice but mixing the relationship can lead to heartache as has been posted on here many many times, only if all agree in a relationship (and yes I mean only those in the relationship not vocal antimonogamy people who think everyone should be allowed to sleep with everyone, it ain't gonna increase your chances of getting laid so why do you care???) and let everyone enjoy the relationships they have without trying to destroy or devalue them.


Let me preface this with saying that my views and opinions are mine alone. This is what works for me. I am very happy there are poly's, swingers, exhibitionists, sadists, masochists, etc. I love the diversity and I love that people can be who they are without judgement...for the most part. People keep trying to change me and some have in some ways. I have an open mind and who knows what could happen in the future? However, for me, for now, for this moment, this is how I feel. Here goes!

Monogamy to me is something sacred. It goes beyond simply being physical with only one person. See, I have a lot to give. I'm not kidding. When I'm committed to a man, I give my all. I am there for him, I do for him, I love him with every ounce of my being. Its important for me to do this for the man I love. It comes naturally for me to be this way. I've tried seeing two men at the same time and to split my affections is just too much for me. I guess I'm hard wired this way. I prefer giving 100% to the man I'm in love with. I like the idea of growing, learning, expanding limits, falling deeper in love every day and learning how to make it all work in the real world too. Focusing on one man gives me peace and energy and a feeling of being centered and very well loved. I know this may sound like a bunch of crap to some of you but please, let me remind you that this is how I feel. How it works for ME.

Now, here are some of the reasons I hope the man I fall in love with also chooses monogamy. I think some of this has to do with past baggage on my part. Only once in my life have I been with a man who was so into me and so in tune with me that everything just seemed to click. No, we're not together anymore due to some unfortunate circumstances but he showed me what very hot monogamy can be. He was one of those naturally dominant guys I talk about in my profile. He wasn't at all in the scene and wasn't interested in the whole BDSM aspect of things. But, he was so naturally dominant that everything was fulfilled in other ways.

Enough about him. That was many years ago. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the poly lifestyle. I know some people who are currently involved in poly relationships and while everything seems hunky dory on the outside, when I sit down and talk with some of the women in private (yes, its the women I talk with) they're not all that happy but they will never let their Dom or Master know nor will they let their sister sub/slave(s) know either. It seems they suffer in silence. There is always the complaint about not having enough time with their Master/Dom. There are always jealousies. I mean, always. With every single woman I speak with. It may come out in a nonchalant attitude but I can see the pain on their faces. I can hear the pain in their voices when they say oh, its ok...this is what I signed up for. They are resigned to the fact that their Master chooses poly and if they want to be with him, they just have to accept it. I don't get it. But again, that's just me. I don't know of any man who can make more than one woman feel completely loved and cherished. With that being said, I'm sure there are some out there who work very hard at it and make the whole thing work!! Which makes me very glad. I am a sucker for people being happy and enjoying their lives to the fullest. I guess if a woman is bisexual that helps too. I'm not. I tried it once, it was a very good experience but it did nothing for me at all. I'm just way too into men! lol

For a monogamous couple (remember, this is MY opinion only!), I believe they can transcend so many issues if they work together. Hard core, blunt and honest communication is the only way. Can you imagine, a Dom and sub get together. She is relatively inexperienced regardless of her time around the scene. (Yeah, I'm talking about me!) He may or may not be experienced but he is definitely a died-in-the-wool dominant male. Can you imagine the journey these two types can have? He knows her completely because he only has her to focus on, to get to know, to learn every intricate detail of her. She may say "no" right now to some things she perceives as hard limits but a man who is so in tune with her can gently push her to new limits, to new heights. Only because he's taken the time to gain all her trust, all her love, all her adoration and well, her soul. This is not a six month endeavor. This is not a couple of years endeavor. This is a lifetime of learning. People change and evolve. How is it possible to really get to know someone fully and then have another who he would want the same type of relationship with? The couple, to me, must always work hard to stay connected to each other, to keep trust with each other and to love and adore each other. There is only one Yin...only one Yang. Balance.
Sex is also sacred to me. I'm a very affectionate, touchy-feely kind of girl. I am not really able to have casual sex. For me, having any kind of sexual involvement with a man who I am not in a committed relationship with goes all haywire for me. My heart and my libido are firmly attached! When someone has an orgasm, to me, its going into another realm. Its very personal to me and I just don't want to share that kind of power and amazement with just anyone or more than one. I've tried it and again, it just fucks with my head. For me, sex is also something that can be enhanced by being with only one person. Want new ideas? Watch some porn together. Want to try new things or see what new things there are to do? Go to BDSM parties, events, socials, etc. If there is something new to try, there are plenty of people who would be glad to show me and my special guy how to do these things safely. We can learn the basics and then make it our own however we want it to be! I believe I'm also a voyeur. While I love watching, I don't want to do with anyone but the man I adore.

I have a life. I have friends. I have family and I have other interests. I know I talk here about devotion, commitment, etc. but that doesn't mean I'm going to be clingy or not want to still maintain my individual time. I think a couple needs that. Does this mean going out and having sex, flirting with or playing with others? No, it means living life. I prefer including my man with a lot of the things I do but I need girl time as I'm sure he'll need guy time.
Now, I mention playing with others. Some people see some play as completely platonic. I'm not sure how as the whole BDSM scene is very sexually charged. When someone gets naked, its sexual! lol At this point in my life, I would prefer that the man with whom I become involved wants only to play with me. If I end up trusting him completely, knowing he would never do anything to hurt me or endanger our relationship, that could change. Maybe. lol I try to never say never. I do know though that poly just isn't for me.

Well, I'm sure I've pissed a lot of people off. I'm sure there are some who are silently cheering me from their corner and I'm sure there are some who like what I had to say. I'm glad I have a venue in which to express myself. Thank you for your kind indulgence.

[Long Duck Dong]

A picture is worth 1000 words

7122

[tenni]

Post 2
Scientific studies done under specific controlled conditions do not make the study "old" in three to four years. A four year old study is not old by scientific research criteria. It is new in the discourse of research in biological or environmental factors ("natural" or sociological) connected to sexual behaviour.

If something is a choice as your refer to in your first sentence it would indicate no natural factors are involved. A migrating bird on its first journey from A to B has it imprinted biologically to leave an areas when certain factors such as weather change or food availability reduction. There is no choice if X is natural. Choice does come into play when behaviour has been shaped by environmental factors. Environmental factors such as parental influence and the morality perspectives of those of major influence in a person's development and attitudes about sexual behaviour etc.

The "fetlife" statement falls in to the catergory of self disclosure. There is a place for such research but her statements are not under controlled conditions. They are opinion based and not scientific based. When she writes about being "hard wired" to be monogamous, that is self disclosure. In order to examine it from a controlled scientific approach, the cause of "feeling" hard wired to be monogamous would need to be studied through either biological examination of her chemical make up while experiencing an emotion connected to her words "hard wired" or questions collecting her sociological history.

I am sure that it is very true that some people do feel "hard wired" to be monogamous. The question about being "mongamous" for biological reasons (natural) such as hormone or receptor based has not been furthered by her statements. The study using voles to determine certain biological factors along with the presence or absence of certain behaviours like monogamy or non monogamy are scientific and hold validity to some degree or other.

Her adding statements about spirituality and religion only further muddy an academic discussion on whether a person "is born that way" or whether they have been socialized by societal morals to believe that they need to be monogamous.

But no, these statements do not indicate whether this person is "naturally" monogamous or not. It indicates that she is comfortable behaving in a certain manner. The reasons as to whether it is caused by how she was raised are not explored. How her relationships and past behaviour has shaped her perspective are not examined. It does not validate using a tag such as "natured" to the words monogamy or non monogagmy with reference to sexual behaviour.

To introduce the term "jealousy" does seem to be off topic of this thread. Jealousy is an emotion impacted by environmental factors and psychological make up such as self esteem being self actualizing or not. Perhaps, you are attempting to give the non natural argument a boost of support? Introducing "judgment" words like "denegrate" seems a bit harsh and again I do not see the connection to using the term "natured" to support monogamy as in "monogamous natured".

Thank you for your contribution though.

[blugirl789]

i read the article. it's not convincing of anything. 552 swedish men in a diverse world of how many billion? and they don't break down any data. for example, what was the age group? how long were each married? how long did they follow the men? who had kids? who didn't? was money a factor? all these can factor into whether someone stays monogamous or not. there are several variables that can cause a marriage to disintegrate. although personally, i do think that hormones play a tremendous role in human behavior and monogamy or lack thereof.

though monogamy is nurtured in society, nonmonogamy still runs rampant. society doesn't reward this behavior, yet it continues. this must be nature with all her masterful trickery. hormones surging in young individuals can lead them astray from "proper" behavior. they do things they think are bad, yet can't resist the calling. nature...whatever it takes to ensure the human race.

this topic is always interesting and never gets old.