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View Full Version : whats going on here? can you help me out please? open relationship request



cherry88
Sep 10, 2012, 7:23 PM
hi everyone its been so helpful reading this site..... i know almost nothing about this topic... im really hoping that some people here can help me understand what it is im missing here, or give me some info they can see but i cant...

im real confused and am just gonna try to explain this situation in chronological order as much as possible. i just have no experience to compare this to and want to run this by people who have more experience or who might have seen some of this before or know what it means.



so - im 46, with bf 2 1/2 years. hes a bit younger but honestly noone notices. its been a good relationship and i really care about him. i knew very early that he had only been in 2 relationships before (also his -only- sexual partners, hes had 3 -total- including me) and both times he 'made a big deal' (his words) about having 'open relationships'. he said something about feeling like he was young and wanted to be committed to his gf's, but that if 'something happened' that it wouldnt necessarily 'ruin the relationship'. that was his explanation and then we kinda let it go.

i asked him at that time very directly twice if he wanted that with me, and both times he said no... he also told me that in both those relationships (totaling ten years) he -never- one time ever, took advantage of it. not once in ten years. he didnt say why. but it didn't seem like that huge a deal so i kinda forgot about it.

so now two years later, as far as i can tell our relationship is going super great.... i thought wed kinda worked out all the major relationship stuff and were kinda ready to just enjoy each other.. (guess i was wrong) so for some reason just when im starting to relax now is the time he brings up open relationships. AGHGHGH.

he said, that he was bringing it up -becuase- things are going well. he said he was feeling like he really liked me and wanted to stay with me long term so he needed to get this 'over with' or out in the open or something. he said he was doiing it -because- he wanted to be with me a long time. that to start out with was confusing for me.

but that was really not a huge deal actually..... its what happened next, how the discussion actually went, that was much much worse... the fact that he asked for it, is not all that huge a deal for me. i told him straight out that im ok with parts of that.... for instance im into sleeping with other people together... and im also fine with occasional 'passes' to be with others alone on like kinda 'special occasions'.

its always been normal between us to joke about that stuff, its ok if my guys watch porn and flirt and i expect them to be attracted to other people, (like i am sometimes) so that part realy isn't a big deal... but i like to keep that mostly as a fantasy, i realy really balk at the concept of actually involving other livign people in my intimate life... i just have some kinda deep trust issues........ and becuase of that i just tend to prefer few, close relationships in general in my life.. its just a personal thing and its just what i prefer.

so i think because of that i tend to prefer mostly physically monagamous relationships. i dont care what my lovers think about or fantasize about or do with their thoughts and im even partially turned on by that but physically it feels too complicated for me to involve other humans except on like special occasions.. or if we do stuff together.. or if the level of safety and stuff between us is -exceptionally- high.. thats kind of how i feel for the most part.

so basically i didnt say no at all, not even close.... i didnt really explain all that at first i just explained what i was into and what i -was- ok with, that i totally respected his (and my) right to be attracted to other people and want to sleep with them and even do it -occasionally- but that other than that really i basically preferred monagamy. i did tell him that there wre definitely parts of me that were into it and if what we want matches up i thought we could both really enjoy that.... he was like 100% sure that this would be no problem and id be totally ok with it (thougth i still dont know the details)

however at that point, somehow the conversation totally fell apart...... and thats what im tryign to figure out right now.

basically what happened was he apparently honestly said he thought it wouldnt be a big deal to me.... (which amazed me) hes brought up other kinks before just between us and ive always been totally into it so i gues he felt i would be the same way..

he said he really felt this conversation was like 'a formality' and that he had just wanted to 'get it over with' and that he felt it would cause like absolutely no change in our relationship, at all...... /// which is where things started falling apart. his really casual attitude started freaking me out cause to me this was a huge deal and i had a ton of questions and concerns. i liked stuff the way it was and i was very scared that it would change everythign and i would totally lose control of like all sense of safety in my personal life and that i would have to leave him, and i was totallly heartbroken. to me it was a very big deal.

i also asked him directly if since he never actually did it before, if this was maybe more about principles or permission or something like that, and i told him i was totally ok with all that and yes i supported that totally i just wanted to know if thats what he thought it was... and he gave me a really cryptic answer like 'well i wouldnt ask about doing something if i didnt really want to do it' which to me was just really not clear or helpful at all and started making me even more uncomfortable. the fact that he never commented on what i -was- ok with and -was- wiling to do or accept, made me feel really uncomfortable. we were doing all this by email which was probably stupid. its so easy for stuff to go wrong.

either way i started asking all these questions like about std's and awkward social situations and stuff.... but he very quickly started getting upset and saying that i was bringing in 'extra stuff' and trying to 'roadblock' the discussion... whicih made me really sad cause i honestly thought i was being really open to it.

however he was quite impatient with me and after only a short while and only a very few attempts to answer my questions, he got very frustrated and said i was being stubborn and difficult and actually got very upset with me and blamed me for the entire thing going wrong at one point.... i mean ive like never seen him be like that.... i was really trying to control my emotoins and stay focused on the discussion......... but it got harder and harder since he was just so -totally- intolerant of my fears and issues. i mean im usualy sooo laid back and prety open minded....... but isnt it -kind- of to be expected that someone -might- freak out a bit, and have worries and fears about something like this?

he -always- asks me to tell him how i feel.. so i tried to explain what i was thinking, (that our social life would be totally f@cked, that he would start ignoring me all the time and taking me for granted, that he was saying i wasnt doign it for him or that he didnt like beign with me, etc) and honestly i mean, i couldnt believe how totally unsympathetic he was. i mean he totally acted like i was being a total baby about nothing. he said i was acting 'like it was the end of the world already' (!!) i thought that was a bit insensitive.

and he never said thank you for listening or for not just saying no or anything like that, he never one time thanked me for or even mentioned, me being open to any of it.... he just kept acting like i was being super unreasonable and -completely- out of line.... that really kind of made me angry after awhile. and made me want to stop trying. and really hes not like that usually he is usually very very nice guy who is sensitive and considerate and trustworthy and cares about my feelings and thats why im with him. // so this all was prety out of character and thus even more disturbing.

so i dont know what to do now..... we really actually do have fairly good communication usually and usually we talk about a lot of stuff so im honestly really astounded that went -sooo- bad.

we agreed to just take a break and start over in a bit.

at this point i honestly feel like if he were more sensitive about my concerns i might actually honestly be into it and we would be ok.... but this was just terrible for me and its the number one reason why i think at this point i dont feel at alll good about it... and i really really wanted to feel good about it.. i really tried.... //


so at this point we havent even discussed the actual details of what he wants becuase we are both so frustrated and upset and tired and angry and pissed off we have just called a break. im really, really scared to go further cause i dont want to get all upset again cause the casual way he talks about it has been super hurtful so far and hes been like almost no help.

he says repeatedly hes totally into 'negotiating' and 'figuring out an agreement that works for both of us' and 'taking my feelings into account' and usually i would completly trust him on that...... however, this converstaion has gone sooooo bad that im totaly scared to continue talking about it.

admittedly as a trauma case im a bit 'special needs' but really its not a big deal..... but i do kind of feel its kinda part of who i am and i feel like if he truly wants to be with me, the real me, and if he wants to do this thing that -is- admittedly somewhat emotoinally triggering for lots of people not just those with severe trust issues, then he kind of would be accepting of my feelings and thoughts a little more, and be ready to help me work with them a bit more than this...... its still the way i feel and i try to work with it, but i am who i am you know.


i love this guy we have a great sex life and hes really a decent, awesome, very special guy and id -love- to be with him a long time... in most ways we get along really well. i -do- think from his history, its very possible what we want might actually work together... but the way this conversation has gone has made me feel terrible......... im just astounded he got so upset and impatient... i cant really believe he was -that- surprised i would be upset or have concerns.. // usually hes a lot more normal and laid back and not like that at all.....

please, what do you guys think. what am i missing. what can i improve on. whats 'normal' in these situations. how can i help us communicate better about this?? hope you can help. thanks for listening.

Howtobe
Sep 10, 2012, 8:16 PM
imho if you are both really into working through this, then see a mediator/therapist/counsellor what ever you want to call it.

Having someone between the two of you to guide you through this swampy mess has to be the answer....at least for me and my hubby!

falcondfw
Sep 11, 2012, 2:29 AM
Wow. A lot to chew over there.

First, Please, allow me to say I am not a psycowatrist, nor do I play one on the tv, the radio, or the bus stop. But i am a caring person who is a bit screwed up meself and I have made a lot of mistakes in life and learned a few things. I would be glad to try and help, if you will indulge me.

I think it is maybe very telling that in your first sentence you tell about the 2.5 year relationship and how great it has been . . . and then you close with "I care a lot about him.". You never say you love him until the very end of the post. Did you notice that? I will put it down to you still being upset with what happened, because it really does seem like you love him. I just thought that was interesting.


i asked him at that time very directly twice if he wanted that with me, and both times he said no... he also told me that in both those relationships (totaling ten years) he -never- one time ever, took advantage of it. not once in ten years. he didnt say why. but it didn't seem like that huge a deal so i kinda forgot about it.


So, by the rest of your post, he lied from the start by saying he did not want an open relationship with you. Not a good way to start trust, honesty, or communication in a relationship.


we were doing all this by email which was probably stupid. its so easy for stuff to go wrong.

Good thing you recognize it. Something this important should always be discussed in person. That way you can see "body talk" and other non-verbal indicators. From this alone, I would suggest both of you drop it until you can discuss it in person. But there is much more.

If discussed in person, people don't have time to think up covering stories and half-truths, because many people are not quick enough on their feet and their body language will give them away as making up a fib.

But another sign of warning is, you were discussing it over email, so he had time to think over his answers before he sent them to you. And he STILL became defensive, upset, and then tried to blame you? Not a good sign at all.


i also asked him directly if since he never actually did it before, if this was maybe more about principles or permission or something like that, and i told him i was totally ok with all that and yes i supported that totally i just wanted to know if thats what he thought it was... and he gave me a really cryptic answer like 'well i wouldnt ask about doing something if i didnt really want to do it'

Guyspeak translation = I've already done it and i just wanted to see how much trouble I am in. I could be wrong, but i doubt it.


he said he really felt this conversation was like 'a formality' and that he had just wanted to 'get it over with' and that he felt it would cause like absolutely no change in our relationship, at all...

Very arrogant of him and not very considerate of your feelings. Just assuming. Another bad habit (I know. I do it all the time. But I'm getting better . . Getting better . . . Getting better . . . all the time).


however he was quite impatient with me and after only a short while and only a very few attempts to answer my questions, he got very frustrated and said i was being stubborn and difficult and actually got very upset with me and blamed me for the entire thing going wrong at one point.

Very immature and manipulative and controlling of him. Basic psych 101. You hurt his ego when you actually questioned him, so he has to re-establish his dominance and control over you.


and he never said thank you for listening or for not just saying no or anything like that, he never one time thanked me for or even mentioned, me being open to any of it.... he just kept acting like i was being super unreasonable and -completely- out of line

He was expecting a rubber stamp to do what he wants when he wants and you had questions. HOW DARE YOU?!?!?!?! lol. You caused a few short circuits in his thinking pattern when you didn't just say "Yes dear. Whatever you want dear.". He's not going to thank you for shattering the illusion he had of himself and the relationship. lol. But sometimes it is a good thing to shake things up a bit.'


either way i started asking all these questions like about std's and awkward social situations and stuff....

Only natural questions to ask in today's world.


but he very quickly started getting upset and saying that i was bringing in 'extra stuff' and trying to 'roadblock' the discussion

Then you are not dealing with a man. You are dealing with a child who is used to having his own way. If he can't get his way, he will try to manipulate you into it. If that doesn't work, he will blame you. If that doesn't work, he will say something like "Well, if you REALLY loved me, you would ...". If that doesn't work he will beg. My step father was very classic that way. Seen it WAY too many times.

My conclusion: There are a lot of serious warning signs of trust, honesty, and communication issues. BUT, if you want to have a chance for the relationship to work and he does as well, you both need to go to therapy or counseling. Separately, and as a couple. If for no other reason than to learn how to better communicate with each other.

Communication is different between different couples. There are so many factors involved. What works for one couple, will make another come totally unglued. I have seen couples that speak volumes with just a look. And i have seen others that couldn't communicate to where each other could understand, with a megaphone.

Good luck and we are here if you need to talk.

DuckiesDarling
Sep 11, 2012, 4:47 AM
tired of being trollbait so replied in pm to you Cherry, welcome to the site and good luck.

tenni
Sep 11, 2012, 6:29 PM
Based on reading your perspective about what has transpired, I found both of you contradicting yourself. You want monogamy but it may be ok for him to have sex with "someone" else. You may need to make the rules clearer because you seem confusing on your position. He wants an open relationship but does not/has not want to do it.

I suspect that you really want a monogamous relationship but want to look to have a more open attitude than you are.

I think that your fears should be dealt with and you do not seem to have resolved how to deal with your fears and trust issues. He is not helping either. I agree with falcon that some individual and couple counselling is probably the only way that you both can clear up your real desires to determine if you are compatible. I have not read your profile but is this a same gender option or cross gender option too for him and you?

cherry88
Sep 13, 2012, 11:44 PM
thank you howtobe! yes if we decide to stay together i think definitely therapy or just mediation would definitely help. really appreciate you taking the time to comment :> hope stuff is ok with your husband. i know its being tough for you guys right now. :>

cherry88
Sep 14, 2012, 12:21 AM
Based on reading your perspective about what has transpired, I found both of you contradicting yourself. You want monogamy but it may be ok for him to have sex with "someone" else. You may need to make the rules clearer because you seem confusing on your position. He wants an open relationship but does not/has not want to do it.

I suspect that you really want a monogamous relationship but want to look to have a more open attitude than you are.

hi thanks for your comment.. ok so well really im just trying to be flexible and im trying to be fair. the reason i might want a monagamous relationship but 'might be ok' with exceptions is becuase i really do want the people im with to be fulfilled in their life and i try to allow that in any way i can that really wont be a problem for me. so yeah i consider all requests like that cause being fulfilled is what i want for the people i care about. (and also, for myself)

im not entirely sure yet whether or not this will be a problem but without knowing, i always try to fairly consider stuff. i mean a lot of people think what hes asking for is totally normal. so i feel a duty to give it a fair hearing. theres lots of stuff about life i dont know and i try to be open minded. thats really the main reason i would consider it. we have talked in person and are working on the definitions of stuff like that right now..... a lot has happened with clarifying stuff after we talked in person thats for sure.

also, i wouldnt mind the option to sleep with others recreationally myself, even though i might never really want to do it, i also like having the freedom to feel like i can, if i wanted. so i support that on those levels.



I have not read your profile but is this a same gender option or cross gender option too for him and you?

well one of the other gems of knowlege i learned in the last 24 hours is that he is 'not entirely heterosexual' /// which -also- we talked about before, the same time we talked originally about open relationships. at that time he was pretty adamant he 'isn't into guys' so im just starting to really think theres just a hell of a lot he isn't telling me.

you know, im going to have a mini rant right now...... ive just seen a lot of discussions here about monagamy and non monagamy and relationships and honestly, you know, i just feel like if a person really knows they are not monagamous, why would it seem like a good idea to mislead someone into thinking you are into monagamy and then spring it on them later??? why not just say that up front you know, and make sure you are finding someon who will be into that. i know its not that easy but i honestly think that would save alot of people a lot of problems if more people started out relationships completely honest about their desire for non monagamy.. (end rant) i know its not that easy. im just frustrated. //

either way he doesnt seem to want to be wiith guys without me, but he does want to be with guys, -with- me (!!) which personally i find a turn on. so thats what weve figured out so far.

we spent a bit of time talking in person and a lot happened. i will write more about it in my other reply :>> thanks very much for your help. you guys have really helped me feel a lot more grounded about this and not so on the defensive and i really appreciate that very much. :>>

cherry88
Sep 14, 2012, 12:32 AM
thank you duckiesdarling! haha, my bf loves ducks and he calls me darling. // hehe. your name reminds me of him like that. so we did talk in person and im gonna write more about it.... you guys are really helping me so thanks very very much.

cherry88
Sep 14, 2012, 5:22 AM
First, Please, allow me to say I am not a psycowatrist, nor do I play one on the tv, the radio, or the bus stop. But i am a caring person who is a bit screwed up meself and I have made a lot of mistakes in life and learned a few things. I would be glad to try and help, if you will indulge me.


i just want to say thank you so much for such a thoughtful answer i really really appreciated it extremely much..... and i also think that google should have a guyspeak translator without any doubt. :>> so we spent a few days talking it out and it was super exhausting and all kinds of stuff happened and im just too tired still to really talk clearly about it.

so im just saying thank you very much cause you guys and this site have helped me quite a bit with this.... it was a lot better at least talking in person thought it was not an easy conversation at all. but at least a few things got kind of sort of figured out. id like to write more in a bit my brain is just like jello right now..... :>> thanks again very much for the help it was pretty spot on so far.

falcondfw
Sep 14, 2012, 11:00 AM
Anytime Cherry. Glad it was helpful. Rest. Process Things. Then I hope you will be able to tell us at least some of what happened when you talked face to face.

gen11
Sep 14, 2012, 11:49 AM
What falcondfw said -- he wants a rubber stamp; he's an emotional child; he's (probably) done it before; he probably has a specific person in mind now and may already be sexually active with that person; all he wants from the discussion is permission to run amok.

csrakate
Sep 15, 2012, 11:26 AM
Just thought I'd share this article. And please, I know Dan Savage is mentioned and some of you don't care for him...but please keep an open mind. It's not really about Dan Savage or his "study". The title is simply making a reference about how an independent scientific study correlated with some of his findings. There are some things in this article that some may find useful, especially about trying new things and how it improves communication and intimacy. This is by no means an invitation to debate Dan Savage. Please take from it what you find useful and leave the rest.:bigrin:

Here is the last paragraph as a summary, to give you an idea of the gist of the article.



Nearly all couples have different wants and needs, likes and dislikes, when it comes to sex. And that’s OK. Very few couples line up exactly in terms of how often they want to have sex, the positions they want to twist their bodies into, how long they want to spend from kissing to falling asleep, and the types of sex they want to engage in. What matters is how couples fill in those gaps — how they make changes for each other, how they feel about and approach the ways they’re willing to bend, and how they stay connected through affection. It’s all OK – or at least it can be, if you and your partner are willing to take a cue from Dan (and now from scientists) and give the third G an honest shot.


http://www.salon.com/2012/09/12/science_proves_it_dan_savage_is_right/

tenni
Sep 15, 2012, 2:03 PM
Kate
I think that the basic message in the study of being flexible is a general good one. I re read in part the OP comment and she refers to wanting to be flexible in her approach. Removing Savage from the issue is easy because his phrase is simple. In some respects just as the message from the study.

A couple of negative points that came to my mind while reading the article have to do with it being a "couple" study. ...duo. In many cases with bisexuals we differ as the flexibility not only is connected to couple but poly gender. Add that the study is heterosexual and not bisexual, does that change the message? No, it doesn't because it is a broad brush as the writer stated. It would be interesting to read about the results if it were bisexual based.

" A willingness to be flexible about the way sex happens, including the when, how, where and how often, can matter greatly to a couple’s happiness."

We might want to add to the list "including the WHO, when, how, where and how often can matter greatly to PEOPLE'S happiness.

Does removing the word "couple" change the message?

csrakate
Sep 15, 2012, 3:11 PM
Tenni,
Part of the message I got from the article was that being more flexible can be satisfying, not only for the person in the relationship who is requesting said flexibility, but to the member of the couple that bent a bit as well. It's a matter of giving....and being satisfied by being a giving person. That is part of the emphasis on couples within this article.

As for the inclusion of bisexuals in the study, I feel that there is a bit of "suggestion" as to some same sex play:

The present study also didn’t report on other ways that people in relationships make sexual transformations. A growing body of research I’ve seen at scientific meetings explores how some monogamous couples, over time, change the “rules” of their relationship, opening it up. Some allow for their partner to kiss or make out with others. Other couples opt for threesomes or visits to sex parties together. And some develop a comfort level with themselves or their partner having full-on relationships with other women or men.

It never says specifically "who" these "others are. But I agree that it would be interesting to include bisexuals in the study and take this a few steps further. It would be interesting to hear from same sex couples in committed relationships and how this premise applies to them. It would also be really interesting to know how many monogamous couples open up to same sex play as the marriage progresses when only one of them is bisexual. The possibilities are endless....and hopefully someone will tackle a few of them.

cherry88
Sep 15, 2012, 8:12 PM
What matters is how couples fill in those gaps — how they make changes for each other, how they feel about and approach the ways they’re willing to bend, and how they stay connected through affection. (http://www.salon.com/2012/09/12/science_proves_it_dan_savage_is_right/)

hi thanks very much, yes i totally believe this... we definitely communicate a lot about maximizing our sex life and we are both very giving that way and we both enjoy that very very much. // we have done this for each other many many times, our sex life has changed to include all kinds of things.... we both feel it is still getting much much better the longer we are together because we do that a lot. pretty much everything either of us has brought up so far, the other person has already been totally into.. so thats been lucky.

i love to see the people i care about fulfilled and feeling like whole, healthy appreciated people. so that definitely makes me very happy and being flexible is totally part of that.
(on both sides)

i keep telling him and i firmly believe for me this is not really a sex problem... this is a trust problem. i already told him the stuff im open to in general is widely variable and very dependent on how safe i feel in a particular situation... in other words if i feel safe i am much more open to all kinds of things. and i try not to put limits on myself. and i know for absolutley sure this is something i could be into in the right circumstances.

so i actualy dont really think its as much a problem for me that he wants something sexually or that this is a sexual thing... it is much more a problem such that this particular sexual request requires an especially high level of trust which i am not sure this relationship has at this point.. and i have really really severe trust, boundary, and betrayal issues already... very severe ones. and human intimacy involves so many extra factors, its so much more unpredictable, then what happens just between two people. bringing in other people just has a pandoras box of possible issues and problems that doing stuf with just the two of us, that just doesnt have. .. that feels very unsafe to me and so i would need a high level of trust to be ok with that.... i could have that with this guy but i dont have that with him right now and especially not the way hes been acting about this so far. // (sadly) bottom line if i have trust in my partner im much more likely to be allowing of much much more, no matter -what- it is.

so thanks a lot.. yes being flexible is what its all about. i mean hmm isnt sexuality about giving in a lot of ways anyhow. some people get off on giving. so thast a good thing. :>>