Mona Eltahawy Arrested in NYC

[CelticBerserker]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i4nbnggp13R5Lt2WEsNbtpNFZtvw?docId=82d77ddfc 6cc457bab428f4c00a6adce

Curious to see what people outside of the USA think of this.

[CelticBerserker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVw1XRT48iQ

And the footage. Personally, I don't think vandalism is a form of free speech.

[tall tale]

Who cares what people outside the U.S. thinks. The woman is an idiot. Not to mention, graffiti and destruction of property is against the law.

[CelticBerserker]

Who cares what people outside the U.S. thinks. The woman is an idiot. Not to mention, graffiti and destruction of property is against the law.

Didn't say I cared ;)

[darkeyes]

Didn't say I cared ;)
So why raise the issue? U care ok... good luck 2 her... freedom of speech and expression goes both ways.... non violent civil disobedience... all for it... and yes I have done similar here and if I felt strongly enough may do it again.. both to official posters and to fly posters of particularly nasty kinds.. sometimes if u believe in summat enough u do have 2 take a stand and act... and u do have to be prepared to take the consequences which she certainly is... democracy in action isn't just turning out to vote every few years and then going back to sleep till next time round... what she has done is about publicity and drawing attention to an issue she feels strongly about, and so strongly she will pay the price.. she has and will pay that price if need be.. so no.. she isn't an idiot, but quite a smart cookie... good onya girl...

[CelticBerserker]

So why raise the issue? U care ok... good luck 2 her... freedom of speech and expression goes both ways.... non violent civil disobedience... all for it... and yes I have done similar here and if I felt strongly enough may do it again.. both to official posters and to fly posters of particularly nasty kinds.. sometimes if u believe in summat enough u do have 2 take a stand and act... and u do have to be prepared to take the consequences which she certainly is... democracy in action isn't just turning out to vote every few years and then going back to sleep till next time round... what she has doe is about publicity and drawing attention to an issue she feels strongly about, and so strongly she will pay the price.. she has and will pay that price if need be.. so no.. she isn't an idiot, but quite a smart cookie... good onya girl...

Curiousity, dear. Slightly morbid of me I guess. I should clarify. It's not that I don't care. I just refuse to let it get to me if someone needlessly slanders my home or attempts to exploit it's laws and or principles for the express cause of overturning them to establish Sharia.

[CelticBerserker]

or attempts to exploit it's laws and or principles for the express cause of overturning them to establish Sharia.

Paranoid? We'll see.

[tenni]

"In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. Support Israel. Defeat Jihad."

For me the statement and ad are inappropriate. It seems to support hatred and promote hatred rather than resolve misconceptions. Since 911, Muslims seem to be the new downtrodden group in the USA that have taken the place of Blacks as the group to dispise.

I'm not sure that such trash posters would be permitted in my society. I hope that it would fit under "hate crime" but that is difficult to tell. Any person who supports the American Freedom Defence group efforts with the poster is supporting the campaign to a increase hatred and tension in the world imo.

I think that the woman is to be commended for her efforts. As darkeyes states if she is willing to go to jail to oppose the spread hatred and bigotry good for her.

As far as radical extremist using Islam to promote their own hatred, I do not support that either.

I think that both women had a valid point. Mona was vandalizing as the unseen woman stated. Mona was doing non violent protest about hatred and bigotry.

Which is of greater significance to people in the US is a question for all. It is a difficult choice. I'd be incline to see supporting non violent protest about hatred and bigotry as more important but vandalizing is not acceptable either.

[darkeyes]

Paranoid? We'll see.
We shall indeed Tom. and don't call me dear... Fran is fine.

[DuckiesDarling]

sighs doesn't surprise me this got posted here. Personally, the poster maker is an idiot, the maker of the film is an idiot, the vandalizer is an idiot... yeah free speech, gotta love it. But before you start knocking us for our free speech, remember it might give the WBC the right to protest at funerals but it also gave Constance McMillan the right to take her female partner to prom.

[void()]

May be fully incorrect, if so it won't be anything new.

Seems like the person spray painting over the poster, which was put up in public commons it seems, was expressing her free speech in non-violent protest. It is logical to think a metropolitan mass transit boarding area is considered public commons. The city, county, state and possibly federal government fund the mass transit service. This funding comes from taxes all citizens pay. Also understand one needs to buy fare for passage on mass transit. So, it would seem public commons. The poster then effect would be deemed public commons material too. If all and no citizens own it, then it doesn't seem to be destruction of property or vandalism.

The other person cleverly took a foul in order to have the refs step in and penalize the painter. "She spray painted me!" As was pointed out, she was asked politely to move. I would have gotten a drop cloth of some type, spray painted right on around her, not painting her. Also should have had a partner with rolling video to back you up. Let it be shown the other person steps into a foul. At that point the refs can not penalize the protester. "Video shows you were asked politely to remain still, you moved into the paint, not the painters fault." Becomes a null foul and moot point

Public spaces are open to filming for fair use, as well as reference. No need to get permission from everyone in public spaces being filmed, to be filmed. The police are allowed as much, we pay their salaries, shouldn't we be given the same rights or better? Sorry, the argument of authority is lost, especially when authority is corrupt and wields guns against babes in no-warrant search and seizures.

[wanderingrichard]

Don't see how this has any bearing at all on any of us here. This is supposed to be a site dealing with bisexuality and all that encompasses..

Drew, how did you let politics and hate mongering become a core theme on the site?

[darkeyes]

Don't see how this has any bearing at all on any of us here. This is supposed to be a site dealing with bisexuality and all that encompasses..

Drew, how did you let politics and hate mongering become a core theme on the site?
Whatever the rights and wrongs of it, politics and what u call hate mongering is an issue for every human being on the planet and they affect bisexuals as much as any... Drew in his wisdom recognises that bisexuals are much more than just sexual animals and that wider political issues are of concern to them just as they are to any other sector of society..:)

[darkeyes]

sighs doesn't surprise me this got posted here. Personally, the poster maker is an idiot, the maker of the film is an idiot, the vandalizer is an idiot... yeah free speech, gotta love it. But before you start knocking us for our free speech, remember it might give the WBC the right to protest at funerals but it also gave Constance McMillan the right to take her female partner to prom.
None of the three are idiots... there is much clever about each and each has a purpose.. we can argue what the purpose was and whether it is good or bad, but each is having its effect just as planned... nope.. not idiots at all...

..and u wont get me knocking ur country about free speech.. maybe about its occasional forays into trying to suppress it and the decency of some who abuse it...it's much the same here and arguably we have less of it... but then what I see as decent and right and others do is quite another matter...

[DuckiesDarling]

Fran, you may not think they are idiots, I think they are.. that's the wonderful thing about being able to think for myself and not follow along the yellow brick road. So we can agree to disagree on that point.

[darkeyes]

Fran, you may not think they are idiots, I think they are.. that's the wonderful thing about being able to think for myself and not follow along the yellow brick road. So we can agree to disagree on that point.
Indeed it is darlin' darlin'... indeed it is... and so we can:)

[Gearbox]

I like her. She's not a sheep.:tongue:
The poster was obviously rascist and dehumanizing to a group. I don't know why the poster was there or why it asked for support of Israel. Seems like a pointless dose of hate speach and rascism like the lady said. You'd think that it would registre with others that something should be done about it, but they behave like they'd accept anything.
Makes you wonder if the poster wasn't such a pointless exersise after all. It's ok to class a group as savages. It's getting into the American mindset.;)

[Long Duck Dong]

" I am a peaceful protester I harmed nobody during the destruction of somebody elses property "......I wonder how that would work if somebody went and smashed the protesters place of residence up as a form of protest and used the same excuse " it was a non violent protest, we only destroyed her property, we never harmed her "

instead of vandalizing property, the protester could have tried to come up with some strong argument as to why the posters were wrong, some way of making a stand that was in line with a protest that had a powerful message, not one of " shit, I can not think of anything intelligent to say, so I will use spray paint "... cos the person behind the posters, was able to do it without violence, aggression or destruction of property.....

not sure what it is with people and their thinking that their right to free speech is not complete without some act of destruction.... but I guess thats peaceful / non aggressive protesting for ya...

[pepperjack]

Speaking of ignorance, intolerance, bigotry, savages....hatred! Guess no one here has been paying attention to what's been going on in UN General Assembly this week.:disgust:

[12voltman59]

I have no idea what this post has to do with anything----the woman is a malcontent (and perhaps a slight bit "daft") and no matter the content of something posted in a subway station--defacing it is an act of vandalism and she should not have done it--she should "pay the price" for having done it---whatever authorities determine that should be---most likely should she be found guilty of the act or plead guilty to the act--pay a fine and be credited for the time she probably served in jail and do some community service of some sort. While she surely has every right to object to the content of the poster she defaced---there are other ways to protest them and she should have considered taking some other action.

I really don't see the point of having posted this---and what difference does it make what someone from another country thinks about this non-incident? This post just makes no sense to me.

From what I gather about the posters--I don't particularly agree with their content muself---but I don't condone this woman's actions in defacing the poster by committing an act of vandalism on one of them as she did.

I surely don't buy the rightwing, straw man, fear mongering bullshit that somehow we are in any threat in America of coming under Islamic Sharia law----it is more likely if we were to have any "fundamentalist" sort of religious rule in America---we would have a roughly equivalent fundamentalist/evangelical/right wing/"dominion" Christian sort of rule imposed and no matter what sort of extremist religious rule that can be imposed in any place in the world--such a thing is bad and disastrous for anyone who would happen to live in such a place.

I go with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's view that the moral arc of the universe "tends towards freedom and justice" which is surely the direct opposite what is wrought via either Islamic or Christian "Sharia" like rule.

[CelticBerserker]

Whatevers. I guess in the event that anyone cares what I have to say they can read my blog. I'll stop annoying you with my thoughts if it be your will. However, do not expect the same courtesy on my blog.

[CelticBerserker]

Speaking of ignorance, intolerance, bigotry, savages....hatred! Guess no one here has been paying attention to what's been going on in UN General Assembly this week.:disgust:

I have. You get a gold star and a check plus :impleased Giggity Giggity Post # 69 Giggity!

[darkeyes]

A few years ago in this country in a very small and quite pretty village, a mobile phone company decided to erect a mast in a field slap bang in the middle of the village.. the villagers didn't think too much of this and to a man and woman they objected.. when their objections were over-ruled and ignored by the local authority planning people the phone company got to work. Over several weeks they worked to erect the mast.. when they had finally erected said mast they sat back and admired their handiwork.. next morning they returned to begin the clearing up operation to find that the mast had been dismantled and large parts of it removed. Sure they lost in the end but almost an entire nation sneakily admired and supported these villagers for their panache and in their campaign and there are times when destruction of private property can be justified for what is considered the greater good.

Very often our societies are far more caring of property than we are of people. I could never support any protest where life and limb were put at risk, but occasionally there are times when people will react and in their protests some destruction will take place and can be justified (in my view).. like Gear I quite admire Mona and for very much the same reasons as Gear... just as I did when she was apprehended by the Egyptian authorities as she opposed the Mubarak regime...

[DuckiesDarling]

A few years ago in this country in a very small and quite pretty village, a mobile phone company decided to erect a mast in a field slap bang in the middle of the village.. the villagers didn't think too much of this and to a man and woman they objected.. when their objections were over-ruled and ignored by the local authority planning people the phone company got to work. Over several weeks they worked to erect the mast.. when they had finally erected said mast they sat back and admired their handiwork.. next morning they returned to begin the clearing up operation to find that the mast had been dismantled and large parts of it removed. Sure they lost in the end but almost an entire nation sneakily admired and supported these villagers for their panache and in their campaign and there are times when destruction of private property can be justified for what is considered the greater good.



So Miss talks too much on the cellphone.... how is it the greater good that a cell phone tower was destroyed that would have provided more coverage? How is it the greater good when that particular cell phone tower might have been the way that lives could be saved as areas previously in a dead zone were now included in coverage area?? ? Yeah.. greater good. Find another example cause that one just blows goats.

[void()]

*goes ahead and unplugs his mic, tosses it out the window and wanders along*

[darkeyes]

So Miss talks too much on the cellphone.... how is it the greater good that a cell phone tower was destroyed that would have provided more coverage? How is it the greater good when that particular cell phone tower might have been the way that lives could be saved as areas previously in a dead zone were now included in coverage area?? ? Yeah.. greater good. Find another example cause that one just blows goats.
Miss does she doesn't deny... as Miss is now as it happens... but maybe u would be better addressing ur question to the local laird who refused permission to erect the mast on his land on the optimum site for signal coverage of the area... o of course.. private property... sorry.. silly me...

[DuckiesDarling]

Still not a better example, Fran... really.. c'mon... you gotta have something where what was done for the greater good was actually done for the greater good..... looks through history, gee most of that was *gasp* wars to free oppressed people.

[darkeyes]

Still not a better example, Fran... really.. c'mon... you gotta have something where what was done for the greater good was actually done for the greater good..... looks through history, gee most of that was *gasp* wars to free oppressed people.
The peeps of that little village thought they were being pretty oppressed.... personally I think it's a pretty decent example and so what u think is immaterial...the greater good is in the eye of the beholder is it not? We all have our view but greater good isn't always summat which is about a whole nation.. but very often little things which are of concern to remarkably few... so once again we disagree.. kismet darlin' darlin'...

Not too sure wars are generally for the greater good.. in fact am bloody sure they are nething but... but that's an argument for another day..

[DuckiesDarling]

oh when you don't agree what I think is immaterial.. interesting. Sorry, Fran, it's pretty damned material when you consider you are the one in here saying that something was done for the greater good when it was an act of vandalism pure and simple. Do I agree with the poster? No. Do I agree with the film? No. Do I think both the maker of the poster and the maker of the film are complete wankers for not realizing that throwing oil on a fire will result in more flames? Yes. Do I think that they had the right to do it as far as free speech goes? Yes. But where the line gets crossed is when people like Mona Eltahawy violate the law because they act like spoiled 2 year olds being told no. The court said it was okay to hang the poster, the fight was already over. It quite possibly would be ignored like most of the other posters hanging around like it, but no.. she had to go and vandalize it, taking away someone else's rights cause she thought she could. So yeah, I still think she's an idiot and what you think about that is "immaterial".

[Long Duck Dong]

ok ms mona eltahawy spray painted a poster, a poster that was created by the american freedom defense initiative, a subset of them is the SIOA, *stop the islamization of america * and the president of that is pamela hall......

interesting that pamela hall was the female that filmed the attack on the poster by eltahawy..... and that is strange, as ms hall had a complete camera setup up on hand, to video tape a protest ????

I am not sure about my average joe blogs, but I do not walk around with a camera and tripod in my bag on the off chance that I may find some person getting ready to spray paint something on a poster...... and I find it really odd that the president of the group associated with the poster, just happened to be at the exact location with a camera and tripod, ready to film what happened..... it turns out, that ms eltahwy, herself was the one that spent a few hours alerting people to her plans via twitter, not talking about what she was standing for, but about what she was going to do to the posters

that sounds to me, like she was trying to get attention for herself, cos without all that attention, her actions would be nothing more than a person with a graffiti fetish, and attention on herself, would be more important to a freelance journalist, rather than a actual stance that many editors may step back from......

personally, it sounds like both groups wanted attention cos nobody really gave a shit about either of them and so this doesn't really come across to me as any true form of protest, but a attention seeking *game * for self gain.......

[darkeyes]

There was a 17th century Edinburgh woman called Jenny Geddes who chucked her stool at the Minister as he tried to read from the Anglican Book of Common Prayer in the High Kirk of St Giles... peeps didn't like the book much which was being forced upon them but sat respectfully and quietly cos it was the King's wish... until she chucked that stool at the Minister's bonce yelling (so it is said) "The De'il gie you colic, the wame o’ ye, fause thief! Daur ye say Mass in my lug?" All hell broke out in the Kirk and quite quickly spread across much of the country... within a few years Scotland was an integral part of what is known as the English Civil war which ultimately ended the Divine Right of Kings and began to shape the UK into what it is today.

My point is that it often only takes one person to stir others into action and eventually force change... they have to seek attention also to awaken others who may know little or nothing of a cause...sometimes they plan it and sometimes it is truly spontaneous... but there is nothing wrong in principle with seeking attention and certainly nothing wrong with being only one.. just because people don't give a shit.. doesn't always mean they will never give a shit... not everyone is out for themselves, Duckie...

[tenni]

The video was definitely not shot with a tripod and is not professionally done. There was some post production editing and the editing used still images and they were inserted into the video. It remains fairly rough footage though. The video may have been taken with a flip cam or a cell phone imo as a professional video artist. From some of the angles and blurs the person doing the video was probably very close to Mona. I don't think that the camera person was the woman who was speaking though. Mona's voice seems closer to the camera than the off camera woman. The off camera woman's voice seems a bit of an echo from the location. The off camera woman doesn't seem to be actually in the video. For some reason the camera is focused only on Mona. It seems that the camera operator is being jostled as the camera moves in a jerky manner or is not able to keep the camera steady and on Mona.

I suspect that with the number of camera flashes that someone invited some journalists? I can see one man with a note pad. Whether it was Mona or this organization that invited journalists is unknown.

The point that Mona states "get off me" indicates physical contact by the unseen woman. Yet, Mona is arrested and the officer seems to be uncertain as to what to say when she asked why she was being arrested.

[tall tale]

personally, it sounds like both groups wanted attention cos nobody really gave a shit about either of them and so this doesn't really come across to me as any true form of protest, but a attention seeking *game * for self gain.......

LDD, if you think that no one gives a shit about either of them, or the view they take on this issue, you are highly underestimating the attitude of the American.

[Long Duck Dong]

The video was definitely not shot with a tripod and is not professionally done. There was some post production editing and the editing used still images and they were inserted into the video. It remains fairly rough footage though. The video may have been taken with a flip cam or a cell phone imo as a professional video artist. From some of the angles and blurs the person doing the video was probably very close to Mona. I don't think that the camera person was the woman who was speaking though. Mona's voice seems closer to the camera than the off camera woman. The off camera woman's voice seems a bit of an echo from the location.

I suspect that with the number of camera flashes that someone invited some journalists? I can see one man with a note pad. Whether it was Mona or this organization that invited journalists is unknown.

The point that Mona states "get off me" indicates physical contact by the unseen woman. Yet, Mona is arrested and the officer seems to be uncertain as to what to say when she asked why she was being arrested.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2209227/Mona-Eltahawy-EXCLUSIVE-Woman-attacked-defending-anti-jihad-subway-ad-plans-sue-activist-sprayed-HER.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Mrs Hall, president of SIOA (Stop The Islamization of America), filmed the entire altercation.
'Mona, do you think you have the right to do this?' Mrs Hall asks in the video. 'What right do you have to violate free speech?'
She now says that during the altercation much of her personal property was damaged.
'Not my camera itself....that's why I held it above my head. It was the support...the mono pod, camera bag,' she told MailOnline. 'I was moving around to avoid the spray.'

[Long Duck Dong]

personally, it sounds like both groups wanted attention cos nobody really gave a shit about either of them and so this doesn't really come across to me as any true form of protest, but a attention seeking *game * for self gain.......

LDD, if you think that no one gives a shit about either of them, or the view they take on this issue, you are highly underestimating the attitude of the American.

I was referring to the group that posted the posters and the graffiti queen.... not the issues that they address as a issue is something that can *touch * many people in different ways, but they may not always recognize the person that raises the issue.....

its a bit like the WBC, most people may have no idea who the actual people are, outside of a name like phelps and the wbc, but the issue of anti LGBT hate speech and funeral protesting is something that most people would immediately understand and react to......

[tall tale]

I was referring to the group that posted the posters and the graffiti queen.... not the issues that they address as a issue is something that can *touch * many people in different ways, but they may not always recognize the person that raises the issue.....

its a bit like the WBC, most people may have no idea who the actual people are, outside of a name like phelps and the wbc, but the issue of anti LGBT hate speech and funeral protesting is something that most people would immediately understand and react to......

First off, this Mona is a mutt of the first class. Second, people need to get back to the actual meaning of the word 'racism'. Third, the poster and the intent of the group responsible for it, was not to blast Muslims, it was to draw a line about the "savage" attitudes of the JIHADIST attitude. Apparently, that one word seems to have escaped everyones attention.

[darkeyes]

First off, this Mona is a mutt of the first class. Second, people need to get back to the actual meaning of the word 'racism'. Third, the poster and the intent of the group responsible for it, was not to blast Muslims, it was to draw a line about the "savage" attitudes of the JIHADIST attitude. Apparently, that one word seems to have escaped everyones attention.
Were it not for the fact that Israel as a state is pretty savage to those around it and not nice to some within it, and is in it's own way "Jihadist" to the world around it, I might have been able to agree with that for Israel itself has some very dubious racial attitudes and supporting one nasty bunch against another is hardly something to be applauded.. the poster is quite clear... Israel.. good guys.... Jihadists (all muslims).. bad.. that's its intention... nowt else.. disingenuous to suggest it means anything else... and not that many are conned by it...

[tall tale]

The video was definitely not shot with a tripod and is not professionally done. There was some post production editing and the editing used still images and they were inserted into the video. It remains fairly rough footage though. The video may have been taken with a flip cam or a cell phone imo as a professional video artist. From some of the angles and blurs the person doing the video was probably very close to Mona. I don't think that the camera person was the woman who was speaking though. Mona's voice seems closer to the camera than the off camera woman. The off camera woman's voice seems a bit of an echo from the location. The off camera woman doesn't seem to be actually in the video. For some reason the camera is focused only on Mona. It seems that the camera operator is being jostled as the camera moves in a jerky manner or is not able to keep the camera steady and on Mona.

I suspect that with the number of camera flashes that someone invited some journalists? I can see one man with a note pad. Whether it was Mona or this organization that invited journalists is unknown.

The point that Mona states "get off me" indicates physical contact by the unseen woman. Yet, Mona is arrested and the officer seems to be uncertain as to what to say when she asked why she was being arrested.

For all your sleuthing and investigation of the video, you didn't hear the black officer telling the woman why she was being arrested? He can be clearly heard telling her why she was being arrested.

[tall tale]

Were it not for the fact that Israel as a state is pretty savage to those around it and not nice to some within it, and is in it's own way "Jihadist" to the world around it, I might have been able to agree with that for Israel itself has some very dubious racial attitudes and supporting one nasty bunch against another is hardly something to be applauded.. the poster is quite clear... Israel.. good guys.... Jihadists (all muslims).. bad.. that's its intention... nowt else.. disingenuous to suggest it means anything else... and not that many are conned by it...

You don't even believe what you just said.

[darkeyes]

You don't even believe what you just said.I certainly find it hard to believe you have the audacity to tell me what I do and don't believe... trust me,.. I believe it...

[tenni]

Post 34
Thanks for the link and clarification. fyi A monopod is not a tripod. I've used a tripod as a monopod and it is not very steady. It still seems like a set up of some sort but who set it up and who heard about it and showed seems missing.

Either way, both have made errors imo but I'm still inclined to go with the woman fighting islamaphobia in the USA. I agree that it is not racism per sei but it is bigotry and fear mongering of Muslims. Is this Mrs Hall a radical Christian?

[jamieknyc]

Without beating it to death, in the U.S. the courts have held that the First Amendment protects offensive speech. Since the MTA is a state agency, it does not have the right to censor political content of ads because what it does is state action. A private advertiser (say the owner of a billboard) could refuse to allow the ad.