f@cklot of shit hits a big big fan - what now open relationship request thank you [Archive]

cherry88

Sep 28, 2012, 4:22 AM

hey sweet people. i am writing to update my previous thread 'whats going on here can you help me open relationship request' im starting a new thread cause so much has changed since then.

basically in the last installment my bf was asking for an 'open relationship' after 2.5 years and i was trying to help him but the conversation was going totally haywire and i couldnt figure out why.

so thank you falconfdw for the guyspeak translation because indeed, your intuition and my intuition oughta go out for lunch cause they were both right.

so yeah thats why that converstaion went to hell and why my bullshit detector was going crazy...... / yup apparently theres nothing to make a guy defensive, demanding, pushy, oversensitive, entitled, and -extremely- unhappy about tough probing questions like a guilty conscience. @@

so what happened was we got together face to face to try to talk. so basically that didn't go too great either. i still hadnt really got to the truth yet and actually the next morning after a night of going in circles i finally asked him directly if there was anyone else, i already knew who it was actually, my intuition was 100% right on.

what happend was at a fair last month we both went to where his band played. he stayed overnight and i went home. so even though we were getting along great right then, having super great sex according to both of us, had a great time that day together, for some reason he did it that evening. he said he did it to 'show something to himself' but did not elaborate. he said there was only kissing (what i asked directly so he answered directly) he said he stopped it before actual sex and 'was not ok with having sex with her' because he said it 'felt wrong'. DUHHHHH moron. @@@

he also said he felt like it had 'nothign to do with our relationsip' and that he did it because he 'wanted to' and that he wanted to 'show affection' for this person and felt he should have 'a certain amount of autonomy' to do such things if he felt like he wanted to, and that he felt it had nothing to do with me or our relationsip and that basically he felt like he should be able to do that kind of thing and just come home and that htere would be no difference between us. thats what he said he wants and expects and prefers and what he felt should have happened and actually, what he said he expected -would- happen. // which mystifies me.

so basically according to him that was 100% normal and 'not a big deal' and has absolutely nothing to do with us, and he apparenlty completely expected i would not care, apparently. although, if he really thought that, its unclear why he would then hide it from me. // also, he said he thought i would be fine with an open relationsihp anyhow which is why he hadn't made a big deal of asking before which also doesn't make sense, as if he thought it would be an easy discussion i dont see why he then avoided it so long..... so none of that made sense to me personally. // he also said that we 'hadnt actually ever specified' monagamy, which to me was complete bullshit. in the absence of any other specific agreement id say monagamy is the assumed default after 2.5 years unless something else is discussed. so that was just rationalizing on his part, to me. //

to be fair - its extremely rare hes actually attracted to anyone, or that anyone is attracted to him. so he could be excused only on the grounds that he would not get the chance again, didnt have time to ask me first and just hoped i would understand. // you know. trying to consider alternatives.

what happened thought at that point was that i started to have some real seroius emotional issues. basically as background i have an extreme, =extreme= history of ongoing super monstrous betrayal trauma from my original family that has gone on literally my whole life. i am diagnosed not only with ptsd but complex ptsd from this.. one of the biggest issues in my family had to do with infidelity.. total lack of respect for others boundaries feelings etc etc etc. complete lying and dishonesty of the worst kind. and lying about sex and -extreme- personal selfishness. so that stuff is just hard for me.

as a result of this. its a big, big thing in my life and boundaries, trust, respect, honesty, that stuff is PARAMOUNT to me in any relationsip but especially in a sexual way... i have never been betrayed by a lover, just my family, im a good judge of character and i really trusted this guy.

so the fact that he could do this so casually, that we had just been together a few hours before.... it -completely- freaked me out.. also, it wasn't like we werent getting aloing right then, or i was witholding sex, or in a bitchy mood or whatever. we were geting along great right then and having a lot of great sex and really enjoyed ourselves that day together... // so its not like i drove him to it... so it was extremely hard to undestand, when he was going to see me literally the next day and have plenty of great sex available, why he just couldnt wait.

to me.. i know that people here dont seem to feel this but honestly, to me if someone is doing stuff like that, its because there is something really wrong with our relationship. // if he was happy and content with me, i feel like that kind of stuff just doesnt happen. / he doesnt seem to feel this at all, so thoughts on this would be -really-, really extremely helpful. //// please i want to understand i really do. i asked him to explain to my why i should not interpret this as a betrayal and a rejection, and he has not yet. he tries to explain but hes kind of abstract thinker and doenst make much sense at times especialy under stress... // so i really want to know, in what circumstances, can any of you see legitimacy in what he is saying?????

i mean. in some bizarre world is it really possible, he was really thinking, "man my life is great with my awesome girlfriend, im feelign so good im gonna have me some sweet lovin and i know my girl will be happy for me so im just that smokin right now and boy my life is good, im gonna make my girfriend really happy this week cause shes so damn good to me". realy im trying to stretch here.

he swore he felt it wasnt dishonest and he thought it was no big deal. // he really seems to truly believe that.

i mean, he -was- good to me afterwards. he was just as loving and generous and sexy and happy and attentive as always if not maybe even a little more. so its not like his treatement of me suffered. (except he was lying) he swears it has nothing to do with feelings and that he only wants me as his girlfriend. // but to me. thats makes no sense. especialy since he used the term 'giving affection' he want to give affection/. so doenst that imply emotions and love. seriously im asing you brilliant people.

so: of course the biggest deal is i still feel it was a lie to do it without consulting with me first and thats a HUUUGE deal for me.

so as i was saying ive had a lot of stres and honestly this kind of pushed me a bit over the edge so i actually started getting super triggered and emotionally freaked out because of the cognitive dissonance of having this guy do this becuase i truly trusted him with my life and im a good judge of character and like, nothing was making sense at all. so this was not good for me mentally.

i think after awhile he finally realized how extremely serous i was about how this stuff affects me emotoinally and after many hours of extreme emotions he finally offered to completely withdraw his request of open relationsip for six months, a year, or 'wahtever i need' just because he finaly ralized how truly freaked i was. so yeah i agreed to that for now. he did offer that and i do believe he will honor that for now.

so that was that discussion. interestingly, even his best frined who is in a very open relationsip and sleepls with tons of people, told him that doint it without talking first was a 'big deal'. haha. @

so he did apologize since then, many times, he said he really regretted it and that he would take it back in an instant and that he would have done a lot of things a lot differently. i asked if it was worth losing me and he said 'it already wasnt worth it'. he said that nothing was worth having me feel healthy and stuff. and also he said he really cared about my feelings and would always be considerate of my feelings if he was with other people. but of course, he did not exactly do that this time. // so ???

and, he was honestly a bit dismissive of my feelings at times with his super casual attitude i felt.. which i felt was condescending. i mean just because he thinks this is normal and casual doesnt mean everyone does you know... yeah i actually do think that quite a few people would indeed interpret what he did as lying -and- cheating... open relatoinsip or not. // honestly.

we then actually got together just to try to relax a bit and -not- talk.. and it was much more relaxed (although i had been literally -very- suicidal afor a number of days and unable to eat and -really- depressed) and in this time still i really dind't get much explanation cause we agreed not to talk for then. but i did ask at one point if he really wanted our old life back like he said he did. if what he really wanted was us to be together like normal. since i was so convinced he did this because he wants to leave me and wasnt happy. i asked him how 'this' (what he wanted) would fit into our life. i told him i obvously would rather it wasnt happening at all. but that i truly wanted to work with him cause i love him and he knows that.

then at that point he said that all he wanted was 'our normal life back' and that nothign was worth what this was doing to me and that he didnt even want an open relatoinsihp right now. he siad he didn't want to talk about it or think about it and that he wanted to just 'work on us' and have our normal life. he said 'not forgetting he brought it up' but that when he brought it up again that he would do it he said 'like i should have done it the first time. just you and me, throwing out ideas.'

so i mean. thats kind of where it stands right now. we are having a temporary truce on it, he is happy to have therapy so we are thinking about that. i dont expect that he will be happy with monagamy if thats not really his nature so, i feel really stuck.

basically, i love this guy and i dont really have a phiolosophical problem with open relatoinsip, i can support it in theory and see how it could work in theory. i ultimately realy strive to do what i can to help the peole im with be fulfilled and satisfied if i can.

however in practice im just not sure i can handle it. im just too sensitive emotionally about it, im really really triggered and i cant help it. its incredibly serous issues for me mentally/emotionally cause of my histiory, althogh i wish it wasn't.

and.... becuase unfortunately the discussion has started out on this foot, im almost afraid that it will almost not even really be possible to consider an open relationsip in an actually fair or neutral way, although i would have liked the chance to try, because its going toi be rreally hard for me to separete from how traumatic this experience has been for me because of the lying aspect. its already very hard for me to trust and it iwould have been hard already, and now i feel it may be impossibly hard.

i know i know only therapy can resolve these issues. i guess im just trying toi understand. what do you guys think, is he a lying douchebag or did he make a really stupid honest mistake. is he a selfish user or a really sweet guy who wants to give affection to beautiful women while loving his girlfriend. is he like delusional or does anything he says make sense to you. im having total congitive dissonance and am like lierally on a knifes edge where i can see two realities almost equally and i keep going back and forth... i dont know how to interpret this stuff. the way he interpretes it is so different from how i do. what do you think.

also is it excusable that i really want to do this for my boyfriend and just am not sure i actually can. //

i really am not sure im actually emotionally capable of helping him with this even though i may want to. i really enjoy that he is happy and want him to be happy. but im just not sure i can honestly emotionally handle the realities iof it.

also, do i have any more right to ask him to be more careful about this because i have actual medical 'issues' around it?? i dont consider it fair or sustainable to ask for monagamy in the long term. i dont know what to do.

just hoping to learn please.

thank you brilliant people.

Long Duck Dong

Sep 28, 2012, 6:28 AM

honest opinion....

he plays in a band, they can attract * groupies * yes even the local pub bands can attract groupies, and if things get hot, he wants to be able to go with them without any issues or problems on the home front.... trouble for him is that the human body and mind is not always in the mind to play fair and it sounds like that is what happened with him and the other woman, he couldn't * disconnect enough * from his connection with you, so that he could go off with the other female......

a lot of what he says, is unusual for a bisexual in that he is not expressing a interest in being with other guys as much as he is expressing a interest in freedom without restriction, rules or guidelines that may * trip * him up

too much of what he says, puts the *blame * on you, yet he talks about the way his actions affect him...so that reads like he is not facing his own issues, just sidestepping them and focusing on the issues he believes can be worked thru... IE YOU

I am not convinced that he is asking for a open relationship as much as he is * saying * stop melting down and learn to deal with the idea that I may fuck other people, and if you have concerns, I end up having to face my own issues that I can not deal with......

if you go to therapy, then I would suggest you both go and its about both of you... meaning he has to face his own demons.....

as for asking him to be more careful cos of your own medical issues ? fuck yes, you have all the right in the world.... cos if you go to pieces, you have to pick them up again and rebuild your life, he doesn't...... and having rebuilt my own life 3 times ( car accident at 16, PTSD from military service, then mental illness and death of my sister ) it doesn't get easier, the more times you do it, lol......

falcondfw

Sep 28, 2012, 9:41 AM

What the duckster said.

My take?

This is not the first time it has happened. Once a cheater, always a cheater. I don't buy what he is shoveling.

I was in several fairly popular bands 20 years (holy crap! now that I look at it, it was almost 30 years ago! Getting old REALLY SUCKS!) ago and even though I was (and still am) fat, I could (still can) sing my ass off and play a mean rhythm guitar. We had a lot of groupies and I was single so I had more than my fair share.

Bi or not, what he was looking for was acceptance, AFTER THE FACT! And the way he even did that sucks.

Now, he is looking for permission going forward to do what the hell he wants, when the hell he wants it, while you stay home and bake cookies, like Michelle Obama (yeah, like that woman has ever seen the inside of a real kitchen, other than to yell at the cooks!).

Whether you love him or not, facts are facts. If you stay in this relationship:

1. Plan on this happening over and over.
2. Plan on discovering other things he has "hidden" (lied about) because he was afraid of your reaction.
3. Plan on HIS feelings and emotions coming first, because that is the path you have started him down (and he obviously likes it).
4. Plan on feeling manipulated and like the guilty party, because that is what cheaters do to justify their actions.

As for your "medical issues", if he loved you, the real you, he would not have cheated, precisely because of those issues, if for no other reason. Because he is aware of those issues and the pain you have been through and would never want that pain to resurface.

I would STRONGLY bet, if there was videotape surveillance of the time and place in question, things went a lot further than he said. It is the lifestyle he is used to.

Your willingness to try it out is a testament to how much you love him and your inner strength. But, because of your past, it is not based in reality.

YOU need to see a shrink. PTSD? Compound PTSD? I am not a shrink, but I think you have far more serious issues than those. The suicide thoughts are alarming. You obviously have serious trust issues. Maybe some emotional issues. There is nothing wrong with that. We are shaped by our environment in many ways. Trust issues are common. So are emotional issues. But YOU have to do something about them. With a VERY good therapist and without your bf, before you can make any progress.

Don't you see? Until you trust and believe in yourself, you cannot expect anyone else to and you will always be a "victim" in the truest sense of the word. But you will be a victim, primarily, of your own issues. No one else can fix these for you. Only you can. Now, someone who is truly supportive and truly loves you can help you heal, but I seriously doubt this guy is that person.

I know my words are harsh, and I hope you will forgive me, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em. And I always think honesty, whether it is wanted or not, is the best policy.

Sometimes, it is best to think with the head and not the heart. I think this is one of those times. And if you really think with your head and examine your whole relationship with this guy, I think you will end up running to the bathroom to throw up with what you have put up with/enabled.

Good luck and keep us in the loop. But please, get a very serious therapist who is not going to drown you in alphabet soup, but someone who cares and will really help you.

Gearbox

Sep 28, 2012, 9:55 AM

cherry88

Sep 30, 2012, 11:04 PM

What the duckster said.

My take?

This is not the first time it has happened. Once a cheater, always a cheater. I don't buy what he is shoveling.

ok so i just have to say im honestly really really surprised you guys are taking such a hard line here.... i mean honestly i thiought if there was anywhere where people could maybe explain what was happening and mabye show me some reason to forgive this guy or to give him a chance or whatever, it would be you guys... im really serious. and you guys are NOT buying this shit at ALL. not at all. i am very very surrpised and this is giving me a lot of pause here.

Bi or not, what he was looking for was acceptance, AFTER THE FACT! And the way he even did that sucks.

yeah i know. thats the way i feell too. he swears up and down, he didn't think it was a big deal.. he swears up and down he thought it would cause no change between us at all. i just dont really udnerstand what he could be thinking of. ive never been a doormat ever i have a long history of solid relationsips... and really up til now this relationsip has been really pretty good as well...... and i just dont really know how i could have failed so badly this time.

As for your "medical issues", if he loved you, the real you, he would not have cheated, precisely because of those issues, if for no other reason. Because he is aware of those issues and the pain you have been through and would never want that pain to resurface.

well yes i feel that way too esepcially now that he does know. / to be fair, i have a lot of issues. so he knew about a lot of them before but not this one. he is used to me being very open sexually and also being very relaxed about stuff liek that, i mean i am histiorically not anywhere near a jealous person despite my issues, i mean he is in a band he works at the university, he has been roomates with his ex the whole time ive known him, i am really not threatened by that shit, i have a lot to offer and if someone wants something else other than me that is solidly their loss. so thats not something ive ever worried about or had any problem with. ive never expressed any concern about that stuff and never honestly worried about it.... im raelly quite secure in those kind of ways and honestly i trusted him completely up til now to be appropriate with that trust. //

so its not like ive ever expressed any kind of jealously or insecurity or problem that way.... and we never talked about cheating becuase honestly it never came up... and i never thought it would come up either. its something i work very hard to keep out of my life as its a trigger and so, i never honestly epected it to come up ever, as its never come up in any relaionship before this either. //

now that he -does- know, yes i do expect him to pay a lot more attention. and yes he should have known, just about my issues in general.... // to me this was very disrespectful and inconsiderate especially given my peresonal issues and yes it worries me a huge amount.

Your willingness to try it out is a testament to how much you love him and your inner strength. But, because of your past, it is not based in reality.

yeah i know. pretty much the first thing i said about this was that there are certain things im ok with in theory but just cant really tolerate in practice and im thinking this is just one of htose things. so if he wants to stay with me he must take that into account i think.

YOU need to see a shrink. PTSD? Compound PTSD? I am not a shrink, but I think you have far more serious issues than those. The suicide thoughts are alarming. You obviously have serious trust issues. Maybe some emotional issues. There is nothing wrong with that. We are shaped by our environment in many ways. Trust issues are common. So are emotional issues. But YOU have to do something about them. With a VERY good therapist and without your bf, before you can make any progress.

ok sure i agree and yes i have been in therapy for the last oh 15 years or more. i see a psychiatrist every couple months that entier time, and still see them. ive been in tons of counseling during that time and all kinds of meds and stuff. so i mean yes i have done extensive work on this within myself, i have not been in any relationsip in close to a dozen years. not even dating... so i mean its been a lot about working on me... and basically the main thing i need to do now to stay healthy is control my environment, which is part of whta this is.

i do the best i can but there are certain things and triggers i have to be really scrupulous about keeping out of my life and this is definitely one of them. ordianrily this would mean instantaneous break up, but this guy is truly very special and im not kidding, i am a good judge of character and have always had good solid realationships. so i want to believe in my judge of character it has not -ever- failed me before in a relationship and this is why this has been really painful. i dont trust easily but when i do its never failed me before, not ever, all my exes are my most loyal friends today, after decades, i value those relationships and i dont want to give up on this quite yet. //

Now, someone who is truly supportive and truly loves you can help you heal, but I seriously doubt this guy is that person.

I know my words are harsh, and I hope you will forgive me, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em. And I always think honesty, whether it is wanted or not, is the best policy.

Sometimes, it is best to think with the head and not the heart. I think this is one of those times. And if you really think with your head and examine your whole relationship with this guy, I think you will end up running to the bathroom to throw up with what you have put up with/enabled.

Good luck and keep us in the loop. But please, get a very serious therapist who is not going to drown you in alphabet soup, but someone who cares and will really help you.

well ok......... so knowing that yes i have been in extensive therapy for years now and that that part of things is really as under control as i have been able to get it... i mean yes i am and have been in tons of therapy. // up til now this relationsip was very healing for me. this has been incredibly unhealing. im very sad that he was able to be so disrespectful and show so little loyalty to me and so much thoughtlessness and carelessnsess. that worries me extremely. very very extremely.

and nobody here has a single positive thing to say. noone is defending him at ALL. thats really surprising me. so i mean this has given me a lot to think about and its all very very troubling. i was hoping there was some exuse for this, sometihng someone could tell me they understood or that was common or they could see his view point.

noone is doing that. that is concerning me quite a bit. so i guess i will just ask you - is there no circumstance in which you might excuse something like this. ANY circumstance at all in which this guy actually -wasnt- just being a huge douchebag. //

any at all. ?? playing devil's advocate??? anything??

thanks for the straight talk yes i always appreciate that. // hope to be in the chat after a bit ok. thanks again.

Long Duck Dong

Sep 30, 2012, 11:30 PM

cherry hun, the reason why some people may not be defending your partner, is cos we have heard and seen the same issues time and time again.....

how can we defend and support a person that is trying to downplay your feelings and thoughts as not that important..... most of the people that are not defending your bf's actions, are doing so cos they are also people in relationships that see their partners as mattering and they treat their partners with all the love and respect that they can.....

many times we have seen the actions of people defended in the site, with the inference that it would be your fault that he did what he did cos you were not being understanding or supporting of your partners bisexuality, your partners rights to express himself, your partners right to explore his sexuality.... and for many of the people that are in relationships, they know that its a compromise situation cos it takes 2 people to make a relationship work....

there is some positive things in what he is trying to do, like be honest with you and open with you about his interest in a open relationship... but for myself, his attitude towards you, your mental heath and well being and his own understanding of how his actions can affect you, are not really standing out as something a partner would do if they loved you and were looking for a compromise within the relationship that worked without adversely affecting you both.....

it would make no difference to me if he was bisexual, gay, straight or a eunuch, there is a US in a relationship, not a ME and THEM....and my stance would be the same based around the attitude and actions of the person regardless of sexuality, open relationships are a working compromise and a privilege not a right for one person and a obligation to allow it, for the other

cherry88

Sep 30, 2012, 11:37 PM

honest opinion....

he plays in a band, they can attract * groupies *

a lot of what he says, is unusual for a bisexual in that he is not expressing a interest in being with other guys as much as he is expressing a interest in freedom without restriction, rules or guidelines that may * trip * him up

ok thanks very much for your perspective. :< yeah, i know. / and yes you are right what he wants is autonomy and freedom, anything that happens he just wants the autonomy to experience whatever comes up.. . he feels that he doesnt see why being in a relationsihp should stop him from that stuff.. he just wants to be able to do what he wants and have discretion. which is kinda silly given the fact he seems to have terrible, terrible judgment........ sigh. //

too much of what he says, puts the *blame * on you, yet he talks about the way his actions affect him...so that reads like he is not facing his own issues, just sidestepping them and focusing on the issues he believes can be worked thru... IE YOU

this is a huge, huge problem..... i do feel he is putting the blaime on me and totally sidestepping his own inappropriateness. // i totally feel that and its bothering me a lot.

I am not convinced that he is asking for a open relationship as much as he is * saying * stop melting down and learn to deal with the idea that I may fuck other people, and if you have concerns, I end up having to face my own issues that I can not deal with......

ok i am curous what you mean here. could you in any way elaborate. .. i didn't exactly understand the part that wasnt in bold. and as to the part in bold.. i mean.. uh... imean can you see any situation in which his fucking other people would or should be ok?? i mean this is what im getting at are there any situations in which that actually is something that people are actually ok with and where it isn't a bad or negative thing? i know that some people do look at it that way. you say 'stop melting down and get used to the fact he may fuck other people' as though that is something that could be totally acceptable to many people. is that what you were referring to? can you please elaborate. is it ever ok that someone just wants to fuck other people and still love their original lover just as much. can that ever be ok within a healthy relationsip. i have never experienced this and have a hard time conceptualizing it but apparenlty other people do. thats what ive come hre to find out. can you see any situaiotn at all in which i could realisticically and approrpiately been approached with this by this person about this, in a way that would have been ok?

also about the melting down.. i honestly never even one time melted down in any way before this in our relationsip... ive never had reason to. i mean im so laid back i dont even get pms. i am such an even tempered laid back person.. we have never had any issues before in terms of jealousy or this being any kind of problem.. he goes to shows constantly without me i never cared about it and i trusted he was solidly interested in me and that i could solidly trust him to be appropriate. i never have ever 'melted down' about anything similar of any sort during the history of our being together.... this has never been any sort of issue of any sort before. ive always ben totally behind him having a life and doing what he enjoys and up til now i trusted him completely to be appropriate with that and hes never given me reason to feel differently at all.

im jsut saying it feels like you are implying that somehow ive been melting down about this the whole time we were together and making a big deal out of it and super jealous and insecure and so i drove him to it or something... thats really realy not the case so i want to know what you actually meant there ok. i -only- melted down this time after the fact becuase he severely lied to me and did it very carelessly..... that was horrifying for me and inexcusable. // bieng attracted to soemone else is rreally the least of hte things im concerned about with that.

if you go to therapy, then I would suggest you both go and its about both of you... meaning he has to face his own demons.....

ok i also dont totally understand this yes i am setting up therapy for both of us right now. yes we will both go together. its really funny he wants to go to therapy, he thinks the thearpist will tell me i am being unreasonable.. honestly. i think he is competely disconected with normal realitly if he truly believes, any counselor in their right mind, will support what he did or blame me in the least for how i felt about it.. so that will be interesting. //

as for asking him to be more careful cos of your own medical issues ? fuck yes, you have all the right in the world.... cos if you go to pieces, you have to pick them up again and rebuild your life, he doesn't...... and having rebuilt my own life 3 times ( car accident at 16, PTSD from military service, then mental illness and death of my sister ) it doesn't get easier, the more times you do it, lol......

yes i hear that. i have also rebult my life many times. it is not fun and no it doesnt get easier. im sorry to hear that my uncle was in vietnam and korea and did end up taking his own life it was very sad. yes ptsd is very real. //

i do think this is probably the main issue hapening right now. im not sure this guy has anywhere near the capabilitly to even understand the stuf i deal wtih, much less be able to help me with it, much less really truly have the time or energy or wil or desire to deal with it in any real way. if he just wants to party and have fun then no he is not going ot want to deal with my extremely real issues and that will just be very very sad. // ok so thank you for your input very much. once again i am asking. is there any situation in which any of this would ever be excusable or be ok. im just geting the feeling that not one person thinks that in the least. // thanks for your input i really appreciate it.

tenni

Sep 30, 2012, 11:56 PM

cherry88

Oct 1, 2012, 12:00 AM

cherry88

Oct 1, 2012, 12:10 AM

I haven't read everyone's comments. This guy is being sexual with other women. How do you see this situation as connected to bisexuality?

Based on what you wrote about yourself and your recent interactions with him, you are coming to a good position. He is not for you. It has nothing to do with bisexuality as far as I can tell.

ok well thanks for your input. really it doesnt matter to me who he wants to be with i mean that really wasnt why i came here it was because there seem to be a lot of discussion of alternative type relationships.. //

but either way, thanks for your coments.

cherry88

Oct 1, 2012, 12:41 AM

There's a bit of mismatched communication going on in your relationship: Your bf tells you he wants an open relationship. THAT pretty much kills any chance you have of a monog one 98% of the time (I suspect).

yup thats pretty much what im thinkin /

You communicate to him that it distresses you to think about him fucking other women. HE saves you that distress by not telling you about his sex with other women. You get even more distressed because he didn't discuss it with you and you know you can't trust him.

ok well i know it seems that way but honestly that wasnt it. we never talked about it before, i never brought it up. i generally acted like i -wouldnt- be distressed by it becuase it honestly never crossed my mind he would think about that.. really i mean it never crossed my mind before it never came up... // im totally serious. so no i never told him it would distress me at all to be completley honest we never talked about it and he knew me as a very unjealous person. ok so i just really dont think that he was hiding it becuase i communicated to him it would bother me..... we hadnt talked about it you know. and completley the idea that he is attracted to other people or wants to fuck them is a whole lot easier for me to understand then how he could think its ok to lie to me or show so little loyalty to me in an emotional sense. // im serious.

thats actually why i think he really screwed himself if he had approached this correctly i probaly would have worked with him 100% becuase i really did trust him and at the time felt much safer with him. now i dont trust him or feel safe so he kidn of effectively screwed his own chance to really get what he wants here......// i would -vastly- prefer trusting him and continuing to enjoy our extroardinarily amazing sexual life even with extras cause he really super turns me on and we have alot of good times so yeah i would have preferred not being kind of forced into this really bad position and stuff... i think that is totaly is own fault really.

He use deceit to get what he wants, and you use emotional blackmail to get what you want. Neither is good btw, and neither come with 'rights' of use.

ok like i said it looks like emotional black mail but i honsestly think it wasnt. it doesnt really matter though but, i mean, i knew it would look like that but i dont think thats what it is. either way though. just saying.

Forget about your bf being ok with monogamy. All you have to think about is if you'd be happy without it. If not, you should leave him.
What good would leaving do you? IMO you'd be allowing your abandonment fears dictate the choices in your life. That's your perogative, but you could chose to attempt dealing with them by staying, with the aid of a counciler for both. If that fails, well at least you've tried.
Good luck whatever you do.x

well thank you. no i dont want to let any fears limit me. this is why discerning what to do in this situation is so difficult for me. i dont want to close myself off to stuff in life. and also i dont want to leave myself open to stuff that is not healthy.

up til now this felt like an extremely nurturing loving caring relationship and i really have no idea what happened just now. i dont want to give up on it so easily and there are a lot of good things about being with him that i really enjoy. i dont want to make too quick a judgement and that is why im reading about it and talking to people.

trying to find if there is anything acceptable in what he did or any reason i should look at this from a different perspective. i have realy never faced this my lovers are usually extremely loyal and supportive long decades after we break up. this is a new one for me.

yeah i know this is what im deciding should i leave him. i know thats like my only option right now. either stay and accept him basicaly as he is or leave. really not sure at all what i should do. my feelings say that he does not respect me. but i dont really want to accept that.

tenni

Oct 1, 2012, 12:42 AM

cherry88

Oct 1, 2012, 12:54 AM

Well, a few people like to see this site as a site for women to complain about men mistreating them..it seems. It is a bisexual website and about bisexual issues plus a little side bar issues. I know what you mean by alternative and some people are monogamous while others are poly and swingers involving both genders(bisexual after all). Bottom line is if you are not in agreement with his behaviour and do not feel comfortable with it, then it is time to move on. Good luck to you.

ok well honestly i really hope it doesnt seem like im just coming here to complain or something? really i hope i havent given that impresion at all i think ive been defending this guy like more than anyone else! @ nope seriously i was looking for viewpoints rgarding alternative relationships specifically non monagamy. and i have found quite a bit of that here.

to me sex is sex we are all people you know. i honestly try not to draw lines. my daughter is in college she defines herself as pansexual ok this is more the way i look at it. so didn't mean to show disrespect for a bisexal web site hope it didn't come off that way. that was secondary for me to the info about relationsips and i honstly feel ive learned a lot about that.

yep thats what im deciding do i just need to leave him. so yes you are correct. thank you.

Long Duck Dong

Oct 1, 2012, 2:03 AM

lol ok cherry, I am going to address what I said in post 7......

you answered your own question to me within your post..... lol

I said that I was not convinced that he wanted a open relationship as such, it came across more that he was trying to find a way not to have to deal with the consequences of his own actions when he went off with other people...... and that he may see you as melting down over a situation that he was not seeing as a big deal

you were not sure what I meant...... and later in your post, you said that he was not in touch with reality if he thought a counsellor would side with him and call you unreasonable ....

you hit the nail on the head, his sense of reality is why he is seeing things the way he is...... sex with other people is not a big deal to him, its just one of those things that happens.... and that is the way he wants it to be in the relationship,... so his way of making that happen, is with a open relationship, however, its not a open relationship he wants, its actually he doesn't want to have to deal with any of the issues he can not deal with.....

in simple terms, he wants to be able to fuck other people whenever, where ever, then come home, get into bed and cuddle up to you and have it as if nothing happened, cos thats the way he can deal with things...... and when things come up that he can not deal with, then you see the behievour that you are seeing......

it doesn't mean that he doesn't love you or care about you any less, its issues and aspects within him that you can not fix and he has to deal with ( his own *demons )

people that can not handle things or deal with issues, often follow the same pattern of blaming the people or the situation they can not deal with..... IE females, heterosexuals, monogamy, relationships.... and regardless of what is going on in other peoples lives, the person will continue to insist that its always the same factors that are the *root cause *... IE bisexual male and straight female = bisexual male loses rights, straight female is selfish and insecure, proves that monogamy is wrong in relationships, ergo bisexuals should be able to get in relationships and non bisexual partners should automatically say bisexuals rights are *rules for relationship * but straight people should not be in relationships with bisexuals cos straight people are wrong partners for bisexuals unless straight people want to have no rights in relationship...

I stand by what I say, if your partner is interested in the relationship and you.. then they will be more open minded about going to a counsellor with the idea that its not about making the relationship a open one but more about learning how you both can come to a compromise within the relationship to strengthen it, support each other and be able to deal with the aspects of each other and the relationship that can stop it growing......

I have no doubt that you love him and he loves you, so working with a counsellor for the benefit of both people would be a brilliant move.... and the idea that you are not the right partner for him and that its time for you to move on ??? lol..... talk about a one sided opinion cos it places the *blame * on you for things not working....and that comes back to the part I said about people that can not handle or deal with issues, often follow the same pattern....

bradf52

Oct 1, 2012, 1:13 PM

Hi,

Yes I tend to skulk around here, But I'm not that much of a social animal.
But in this case I want to chime in and give my opinion on your problem.

From what I can make out here is that you have your own problems that need to be addressed then you compound his B.S. and now you have a what I call meltdown.

I think (My opinion) you should pack your bags and head for the hills!!!!

You need to think about getting yourself right first. Then find a guy that suits you! This guy is to open minded and has his own problems which is not helping you at all. You're not helping yourself or him sticking around. You need to work on you right now. Not involve yourself with a man at this time.

I can tell you that he is not going to change!!! And even if he said that he would he'd be fibbing big time. So this is a big red flag, time to hit the road I think.

Sorry My two cents worth!

Brad

darkeyes

Oct 1, 2012, 3:26 PM

What the duckster said.

My take?

This is not the first time it has happened. Once a cheater, always a cheater.

bollox

cherry88

Oct 1, 2012, 6:42 PM

bollox

are you saying this to disagree with falcondfw or to defend my bf? if you are defending my bf you would be the only one so far. // if you se a reason to defend him i would love to know. most people seem to think hes a freaking total waste of my time at this point and its making me prety depressed. hes given me alot of good stuff in the last couple years and before this we were really pretty happy and i enjoyed being with him a lot. i know this is just a website and none of you guys know me but the total unanimity of the responses is disturbing me. i really want to beleive there is some chance here he might not be a total jerk and there is some misunderstanding. he swears there is. hes been a really good boyfriend up til now in a lot of ways. isnt there any chance something else might be happening here. im not looking to excuse bad behavior i am lookinng to understand if there is a different reason for seeing what im seeing. thanks for your thoughts.

DuckiesDarling

Oct 1, 2012, 6:47 PM

are you saying this to disagree with falcondfw or to defend my bf? if you are defending my bf you would be the only one so far. // if you se a reason to defend him i would love to know. most people seem to think hes a freaking total waste of my time at this point and its making me prety depressed. hes given me alot of good stuff in the last couple years and before this we were really pretty happy and i enjoyed being with him a lot. i know this is just a website and none of you guys know me but the total unanimity of the responses is disturbing me. i really want to beleive there is some chance here he might not be a total jerk and there is some misunderstanding. he swears there is. hes been a really good boyfriend up til now in a lot of ways. isnt there any chance something else might be happening here. im not looking to excuse bad behavior i am lookinng to understand if there is a different reason for seeing what im seeing. thanks for your thoughts.

Cherry, you seem to be looking for someone to lie to you and tell you "there there it will be okay* well.. sorry hon but based on what you write about your boyfriend. It's not gonna be okay unless a lot of things change. People are being truthful with you, there is no reason to defend the boyfriend. What he is doing is not about his sexuality but his immaturity. You need to take stock of your relationship. What you have posted to us definitely shows the scales being tipped way to one side, if you want to have a chance of equaling those scales then you need to be as specific about the good things as you were about the bad things. And to be honest, at this point, I think if you and he want to be together that's totally up to you but to keep coming on here asking why people don't defend someone is just ridiculous. You were the one posting for help and you got it, sorry it's not what you wanted to hear but that's the dangers of asking now isn't it.

darkeyes

Oct 1, 2012, 7:18 PM

are you saying this to disagree with falcondfw or to defend my bf? .
My statement is no defence of your bf and certainly not of any who cheats.. it is falcon's statement I take issue with nothing else. He knows why I took issue with it as do others on site... indeed as do others who know anything of how humans are from their experience of reality.. because it is simply not true in every instance. People do change especially when faced with the bleak of loss.. thrown away by their own stupidity.. it is when faced with that loss many realise what they have done and what they cast aside.. have been there hun.. and done it.. it isn't nice for anyone concerned and it isn't nice when the one thing which means most to us is lost to us because of our own selfishness and greed... many can't or won't change...not because they do not love the person they cheat, but because they love themselves more... for many their own weakness and selfishness prevents them from doing what is needed to have any chance of restoring to them that which in their lust and greed they chucked in the bin as if it was nothing. At some stage it is a decision you will have to make about whether u have reached that point or whether between u things can be worked out...

When there is cheating there can be no middle way.. no compromise... someone will lose.. one of u will have to decide whether or not to surrender. It depends on what u can take whether it is u or not,or whether he is prepared to move to your position. You can talk and communicate and it is right that u should.. it is essential... but at some stage, one of you concedes, or one of u cheats, or u decide to end the relationship if neither of u feels unable to accede to the wishes of the other for if it cannot be settled there is a real chance u will end up hating each other.

darkeyes

Oct 1, 2012, 7:32 PM

Well, a few people like to see this site as a site for women to complain about men mistreating them..it seems. It is a bisexual website and about bisexual issues plus a little side bar issues. I know what you mean by alternative and some people are monogamous while others are poly and swingers involving both genders(bisexual after all). Bottom line is if you are not in agreement with his behaviour and do not feel comfortable with it, then it is time to move on. Good luck to you.
If I may be so bold tenni.. there is at least as much grumping and groaning by men on this web site about men being mistreated by their women in some way as the other way around... this case may not be about people who are bisexual but it is a very human issue and it could so easily have been bisexuals who were involved and posing just the same questions.. it is a human issue which is pertinent to people of all sexualities, and as far as I can recall, bisexuals are very human with all the strengths and failings, cares and concerns of other human beings.

tall tale

Oct 1, 2012, 7:39 PM

Why is it you people can not stay on topic?

Gearbox

Oct 1, 2012, 9:02 PM

Why is it you people can not stay on topic?
As you go off topic.:rolleyes: lol

yeah i know this is what im deciding should i leave him. i know thats like my only option right now. either stay and accept him basicaly as he is or leave. really not sure at all what i should do. my feelings say that he does not respect me. but i dont really want to accept that.
The best and healthiest thing you can do (IMO) is sit and talk to him. I mean, realy have a meaningfull honest exchange of info. Not a row or blame throwing match! Just a talk. You seem to want to stay with him, so tell him that, and discuss a compromise.
I'm not a big fan of storming off from a problem, as it doesn't get sorted. If you do leave him, I hope you have that talk first, just so you won't spend time wondering all the why's.

darkeyes

Oct 1, 2012, 9:28 PM

As you go off topic.:rolleyes: lol

The best and healthiest thing you can do (IMO) is sit and talk to him. I mean, realy have a meaningfull honest exchange of info. Not a row or blame throwing match! Just a talk. You seem to want to stay with him, so tell him that, and discuss a compromise.
I'm not a big fan of storming off from a problem, as it doesn't get sorted. If you do leave him, I hope you have that talk first, just so you won't spend time wondering all the why's.
Compromise? There is room for compromise? He or she concedes... those are the only possible choices of decision but that's not compromise... is either prepared to? That's the question and if the answer is yes, can it be stuck to or lived with? If so there is a chance..

Sometimes storming off a problem is the only way.. I'm not a fan of it either, but it sorts it very often make no mistake. Maybe no one is happy but it sorts it... and time eases the pain...

falcondfw

Oct 2, 2012, 1:00 AM

My statement is no defence of your bf and certainly not of any who cheats.. it is falcon's statement I take issue with nothing else. He knows why I took issue with it as do others on site... indeed as do others who know anything of how humans are from their experience of reality.. because it is simply not true in every instance. People do change especially when faced with the bleak of loss.. thrown away by their own stupidity.. it is when faced with that loss many realise what they have done and what they cast aside.. have been there hun.. and done it.. it isn't nice for anyone concerned and it isn't nice when the one thing which means most to us is lost to us because of our own selfishness and greed... many can't or won't change...not because they do not love the person they cheat, but because they love themselves more... for many their own weakness and selfishness prevents them from doing what is needed to have any chance of restoring to them that which in their lust and greed they chucked in the bin as if it was nothing. At some stage it is a decision you will have to make about whether u have reached that point or whether between u things can be worked out...

When there is cheating there can be no middle way.. no compromise... someone will lose.. one of u will have to decide whether or not to surrender. It depends on what u can take whether it is u or not,or whether he is prepared to move to your position. You can talk and communicate and it is right that u should.. it is essential... but at some stage, one of you concedes, or one of u cheats, or u decide to end the relationship if neither of u feels unable to accede to the wishes of the other for if it cannot be settled there is a real chance u will end up hating each other.

Fran,
You are dreaming. You may get lucky once in a while, but how many leopards truly change their spots? 10%? 5%? 2%? Is that really enough of a chance to turn your life upside down until he proves he has?
I have seen it way too many times. And honestly, I am a man. I know how men think. Many say i am different from a lot of men. But I still now very easily how we think.
This guy is/has been playing her. His lame excuses. His sudden desire for an open relationship, even though she has known for a long time he is bi. He is asking for acceptance, not approval.

Gearbox

Oct 2, 2012, 6:59 AM

Compromise? There is room for compromise? He or she concedes... those are the only possible choices of decision but that's not compromise... is either prepared to? That's the question and if the answer is yes, can it be stuck to or lived with? If so there is a chance..

Sometimes storming off a problem is the only way.. I'm not a fan of it either, but it sorts it very often make no mistake. Maybe no one is happy but it sorts it... and time eases the pain...
The relationship is already non-monog so no conceding going on there. Both seem very unsure if it was monog in the first place, as both made different ASSUMPTIONS. Nothing was discused about the relationship. BUT despite that, the bf is a terrible villain of monog lawbreaking proportions because HE didn't make monog HIS prime relationship default. Why should he?:rolleyes:
Cherry has already made a temporary compromise by asking the bf to stay 'loyal' while she lets things sink in etc, because she has betrayal problems. She wasn't betrayed, but uses her emotional state to get control of him none the less. She repeatedly casts the bf as some kind of disrespectful lying cheating demon from another reality, for the simple act of him kissing another woman. Yet still (IMO) wants to be with him.

The compromise - He learns discretion & compassion, and she learns about sex & love.:) Maybe?

darkeyes

Oct 2, 2012, 8:26 AM

The relationship is already non-monog so no conceding going on there. Both seem very unsure if it was monog in the first place, as both made different ASSUMPTIONS. Nothing was discused about the relationship. BUT despite that, the bf is a terrible villain of monog lawbreaking proportions because HE didn't make monog HIS prime relationship default. Why should he?:rolleyes:
Cherry has already made a temporary compromise by asking the bf to stay 'loyal' while she lets things sink in etc, because she has betrayal problems. She wasn't betrayed, but uses her emotional state to get control of him none the less. She repeatedly casts the bf as some kind of disrespectful lying cheating demon from another reality, for the simple act of him kissing another woman. Yet still (IMO) wants to be with him.

The compromise - He learns discretion & compassion, and she learns about sex & love.:) Maybe?
First of all why should be not? Too often we take things as understood rather than say what we expect... did Cherry ever make her position understood? Assumptions can be as damaging as as certainties... and I wouldn't say Cherry is compromising.. the holding position is what she wants.. and if the bf concedes he has conceded albeit only for the time being..

Actually Gear, I chime more in tune with how u are thinking than u may think.. somewhere something will have to give or there is no future.. I am not on the side of either here because I think both haven't really thought their relationship through.. I go back to what I said.. it boils down to whether a decision can be made which both can live with and accept... and how much importance each places the other in their lives.. and I am not saying that it should be him that concedes all.. but one or t'other will have to or there is no real future for them as a couple...

darkeyes

Oct 2, 2012, 8:48 AM

Fran,
You are dreaming. You may get lucky once in a while, but how many leopards truly change their spots? 10%? 5%? 2%? Is that really enough of a chance to turn your life upside down until he proves he has?
I have seen it way too many times. And honestly, I am a man. I know how men think. Many say i am different from a lot of men. But I still now very easily how we think.
This guy is/has been playing her. His lame excuses. His sudden desire for an open relationship, even though she has known for a long time he is bi. He is asking for acceptance, not approval.
Not dreaming, falcon... I am aware of human frailty.. people do cheat and cheat serially.. but far more than u give them credit, many do in time cease and settle down with one person, even the person whom they cheated... I for one am a case in point... and my present partner was not the only person I ever cheated on...vis a vis men I think it is true that men who cheat generally find it more difficult not to, but I think that u do them an injustice by saying that once a cheat always a cheat, for quite simply it is not always so... I am not trying to defend cheating or those who cheat, I am simply telling u that u have far less faith in human beings than I.. and even in ur own gender... and mine own claims in this regard are knowledge of my own life and an adult life learning by observing people of both genders and how they deal with their relationships and how their relationships develop.... human beings are not leopards... changing spots does not necessarily mean exclusivity...fidelity has a number of different meanings...

Long Duck Dong

Oct 2, 2012, 8:58 AM

how many people have actually entered into a relationship and on the first or second date, said, ok here is my relationship expectations, requirements and understandings, in triplicate ?...... that goes for monogamous and non monogamous people......

how hard is it to ask a person when we are dating, what sort of relationship they are looking for.... to see if their lifestyle choices, suit ours ?

it seems to be a constant aspect in the site of people entering into relationships, knowing their sexuality and / or relationship style, and do not say a word until the * fish is firmly hooked * and that kinda comes across that people are creating the situation that they have the problems with.......

such is life when we are intelligent, mature and capable people..... and we still can not fix issues in a simple way by asking a simple question

Gearbox

Oct 2, 2012, 9:52 AM

but one or t'other will have to or there is no real future for them as a couple...
It's Cherry's future as an individual I'm more concerned about. There's no getting around the fact that her partner snogged another woman (at least snogged), but she can either use this new situation to learn about herself etc or clam herself up in a 'victim of the world' cage. Cherry has pointed out that she wants to understand her partners 'cheating', but also that she can't yet do that. HE has completely different views of his 'cheating' than hers, and doesn't see why that should alter the way she feels about him etc. Cherry points out that they are in two very different realities, which I think is an apt discription, as both see the same thing very differently.
If she took the consensus advice here, she'd have buggered off by now and learned absolutely nothing about dealing with stuff. Thankfully she seems to want to understand, not just bail, and THAT will do her a damn sight more good than becoming a bitter ex.:)

@LDD- Oh those poor monogumous victims. Will they never quit moaning and start dealing? At least Cherry is attempting to avoid the victim card.:bounce:

Long Duck Dong

Oct 2, 2012, 10:27 AM

Gearbox

Oct 2, 2012, 10:48 AM

well gearbox, I was referring to both monogamous and non monogamous people....... so I will take your comment as also covering the non monogamous people that post about how they are * trapped * in a relationship that is too restrictive when they could have done things differently at the start by checking how their future partner felt about non monogamy.... cos its easier to do that at times than deal with the sexuality aspect......

but its nice to see how you feel about monogamous people and their concerns about their relationships.....
The non-monog are victims of the monog, and the monog are victims of themselves. NOT hard to workout which are not dealing with their issues is it?
As you know, I'm refering to the fanatical monog which I do believe is a major issue that's symptomatic of deeper unresolved issues.

Your views on non-monog are well known too btw.;)

darkeyes

Oct 2, 2012, 11:28 AM

biwilliams

Oct 2, 2012, 3:10 PM

First I just love seeing how some decide to take a thread and begin their attacks of each other on it instead of addressing the main issue at hand.
As for Cherry honestly if you're having trust issues, then no relationship will ever work until you deal with your own demons that you have. How can you be in a relationship with someone if you can't trust them? Obviously you and your bf also struggle with communication, when you try to talk with him, he's evasive in his answers or turns the blame onto someone else. You need to walk away at least for a little bit and work on yourself, instead of trying to focus on working on him. Because as long as you have the issues you have it will never work. Yes therapy may work with both of you, but then again it just might not. I know, I've been there. I've had to deal with my own trust issues in relationships because of past issues. It's not fair to the person you get with to punish them for what others have done to you, nor is it fair to yourself to keep going through things like that.
One of the biggest questions you have to ask yourself is, how can he or anyone for that matter prove that they can be trusted to you, if you have this backlog of trust issues due to betrayal? Not everyone is going to do to you what others have done in the past. And to punish them by not trusting them is not really fair to them in the end is it? And before anyone decides to say that the counterpart should know of your issues and understand and be willing to work with you through them. Yes they should, but at the same time said counterpart can only take so much or handle it so long before it starts to tear at them as well. So in the end if after 2 years or any extended amount of time you're still struggling with trust then obviously the relationship won't work in the end. Sorry to be so blunt but like I said I should know I've been there. I made my current bf go through hell before I realized that the biggest problem in the relationship was the fact that I was punishing him for what my ex had done to me in the past. And if I didn't stop and work on my own demons I would lose the relationship that I had. Yes he hid things from me, and it almost destroyed us because of it. But in the end we had something that it looks as if your relationship is lacking which is communication. He was able to sit down and tell me everything that he desired. And I was then able to come to terms as to what I was willing to allow that I was comfortable with and brought them to him. He in turn decided if he could live with that or if there were a few changes that he wanted to throw in until we came to a compromise. Yes in the end there are a few things that I wish weren't in the compromise, there are a few things he wishes wasn't there. But they are things that we can both live with. That's what compromise is.

tenni

Oct 2, 2012, 5:00 PM

I suspect that we are wandering away from Cherry's actual situation but...

"how hard is it to ask a person when we are dating, what sort of relationship they are looking for.... to see if their lifestyle choices, suit ours ?"

If you are dating in a traditional m/f relationship, yes people do not want to disclose all of their cards on the first two dates. Trust has not been established.

However, in m2m sex, it may start as a hook up. The cards are very specifically laid out as to what the boundaries are both sexual interaction and expectations(hook up, on going etc.) Monogamy is most often at the bottom of the list usually depending upon how you met the guy. In one respect non mongamy is the norm expectations until they have meet. Dating may be offered as a possibility and if that is the prime intent it is stated just as often as "let's try it and see if we like each other ..then maybe we will get together again etc.

f2f may have a different approach.

"I will take your comment as also covering the non monogamous people that post about how they are * trapped * in a relationship that is too restrictive when they could have done things differently at the start by checking how their future partner felt about non monogamy.... cos its easier to do that at times than deal with the sexuality aspect......

If I understand the reference here, I suspect that “trapped” in a relationship that is too restrictive often comes up when the person (often a man but not always) was unaware of their bisexual side until after they entered the m/f relationship that had monogomous expectations... more so than not.

Gear
I am still inclined to see the guy as a player although your idea is good. There has been no mention of him kissing another man. It seems to be an open relationship in terms of females that he is interested in. It must have been in the first thread if she mentioned his bisexuality.

darkeyes

Oct 2, 2012, 5:11 PM

First I just love seeing how some decide to take a thread and begin their attacks of each other on it instead of addressing the main issue at hand.

I think u misunderstand the difference between disagreement and personal criticism which is I think what u are getting at... there is remarkably little of the latter on this thread and my reading is that mostly we are taking different positions because we have differing views.. this is natural in debate.. u can argue the pertinence or otherwise of any or all contributions but most of us do not consider any part of this discussion as any of us attacking any other on a personal basis... I do not say it does not happen on this site for it does and too often, but not as far as I am able to ascertain, on this thread.. we disagree to a greater or lesser degree that is all.. whether any of it is helpful to the OP is for her to take on board but please don't criticise us for something for which no criticism is deserved..

tenni

Oct 2, 2012, 5:25 PM

I think u misunderstand the difference between disagreement and personal criticism which is I think what u are getting at... there is remarkably little of the latter on this thread and my reading is that mostly we are taking different positions because we have differing views.. this is natural in debate.. u can argue the pertinence or otherwise of any or all contributions but most of us do not consider any part of this discussion as any of us attacking any other on a personal basis... I do not say it does not happen on this site for it does and too often, but not as far as I am able to ascertain, on this thread.. we disagree to a greater or lesser degree that is all.. whether any of it is helpful to the OP is for her to take on board but please don't criticise us for something for which no criticism is deserved..

Darkeyes
I wonder if Bi William means that we are digressing from the specific issues that Cherry has. We have generalized to some extent into a discussion about open relationships versus monogamy (again). It does relate to Cherry's thread title but we may be too general for biwilliams liking?

darkeyes

Oct 2, 2012, 6:20 PM

Darkeyes
I wonder if Bi William means that we are digressing from the specific issues that Cherry has. We have generalized to some extent into a discussion about open relationships versus monogamy (again). It does relate to Cherry's thread title but we may be too general for biwilliams liking?He does mean that and has said so, and I have recognised his point by saying that the OP will decide whether any of it of use to her and that we may argue the pertinence of any or all contributions, but he has also made the specific point in his opening sentence that we have been attacking each other which is not the case... this isn't btw an attack on him *laffs*..merely correction of his view of the thread and those who have posted...:bigrin: You and I are both experienced enough of this site to know attacks on the person when we see them...:)

falcondfw

Oct 2, 2012, 9:03 PM

Not dreaming, falcon... I am aware of human frailty.. people do cheat and cheat serially.. but far more than u give them credit, many do in time cease and settle down with one person, even the person whom they cheated... I for one am a case in point... and my present partner was not the only person I ever cheated on...vis a vis men I think it is true that men who cheat generally find it more difficult not to, but I think that u do them an injustice by saying that once a cheat always a cheat, for quite simply it is not always so... I am not trying to defend cheating or those who cheat, I am simply telling u that u have far less faith in human beings than I.. and even in ur own gender... and mine own claims in this regard are knowledge of my own life and an adult life learning by observing people of both genders and how they deal with their relationships and how their relationships develop.... human beings are not leopards... changing spots does not necessarily mean exclusivity...fidelity has a number of different meanings...

What you say is probably true. I probably do have far less faith in my own gender than you do. But I also am one of my own gender and have seen WAY too many times what you only see when you date one of us. I understand the way guys think and have to constantly fight against several of those ways.

Cherry, only you know this guy. I am just giving you the benefit of my experience. Have I been wrong so far?

My point is: Yes, a leopard may change it's spots in rare cases and become a tiger. But are the chances of that good enough , given what has happened, to risk, when there are so many men who are out there who will appreciate you from the start?

Cherry, only you know how deeply you are invested in this relationship emotionally. The decision is yours. Obviously. If you feel you cannot leave him, then I truly admire your courage and strength. In that case, both of you seriously need VERY strong communication skills for the relationship to survive and maybe an excellent counselor as a third party observer and neutral referee. It CAN work, if both of you are equally committed and are willing to work equally as hard.

Long Duck Dong

Oct 2, 2012, 9:24 PM

The non-monog are victims of the monog, and the monog are victims of themselves. NOT hard to workout which are not dealing with their issues is it?
As you know, I'm refering to the fanatical monog which I do believe is a major issue that's symptomatic of deeper unresolved issues.

Your views on non-monog are well known too btw.;)

my veiws on non monogamy should be well known, I have expressed them enuf.....

non monogamy is not a right, its a privilege in a relationship / marriage, just because a person wants to be non monogamous, it doesn't mean that their partner has to agree and be ok with it....

non monogamy relationships and marriages are awesome for those whom it works for.....

non monogamy and sexuality do not go hand in hand....in the same way that monogamy and sexuality do not go hand in hand.....

I view non monogamy as not JUST about sex and the need to fuck other people, I also see non monogamy as also a emotional and mental aspect for some people IE poly relationships and marriages.....

its not non monogamy and monogamy that cause most of the issues in a relationship, its the people themselves, what they say and what they do that cause the issues.....

if people can not be open and honest with their partners, its not monogamy and non monogamy that cause that, its the person themselves that * justifies * their own lack of honesty and often they blame their partners.....

if people are not happy with the relationships, then they are not obligated to stay in them... but people do and then try and change the other person into what they want.... and more often than not, its the non monogamous person that wants to rewrite the relationship and change the partner, not for the benefit of the relationship but for themselves..... and thats not a attack, its a observation.... as its very rare that we see monogamous people trying to change a non monogamous prelationship into a monogamous relationship after 20 years of marriage

Gearbox

Oct 3, 2012, 9:17 AM

non monogamy is not a right, its a privilege in a relationship / marriage, just because a person wants to be non monogamous, it doesn't mean that their partner has to agree and be ok with it....
Lets pause a mo and let that bolded part sink in.:!: Does this mean that monogamy is seen as a right and not a privilege by you? Bare in mind that you are talking about people and their personal freedoms. You realy believe anybody has the right to take away a freedom of another?
Why is that?
Whether your partner is ok with you exersising your freedom or not, all falls down to what kind of person they are, and not what rights they have over you.

if people can not be open and honest with their partners, its not monogamy and non monogamy that cause that, its the person themselves that * justifies * their own lack of honesty and often they blame their partners.....
That's very true. If we could all just tell the truth about ourselves and not hide behind rules&rights etc, we'd all be a damn sight happier IMO. People change, and no matter how much we try to fit into a familiar 'hole' (no pun intended.LOL!) we are decieving both partner and self. So without complete freedom, we will eventualy decieve in one way or another. That's why monog rarely lasts a lifetime.
The open relationships may fizzle out, end in drama etc same as monog ones ,but rarely opt to be monog because there is no need for monog when freedom isn't a threat.

Hopefully Cherry (getting on topic.lol) will use this situation to dump a fear. If nothing else, her bf could help her do that. It's the least a partner could do IMO, as anything loving must expand those loved and self. Fear just contracts!:eek2:

Long Duck Dong

Oct 3, 2012, 9:49 AM

I see monogamy as a type of relationship, a union between two people..... and generally most people see monogamy as a commitment to and with the person they love and want to be with.... so its neither a right or a privilege......

a personal freedom and desire to explore a persons sexuality, doesn't give them the right to tell others that the other person has to agree to it...... and why that doesn't work in reverse, is cos most monogamous people do not have the interest and desire in being with other person cos they are with the person they want to be with.... so monogamy is not a right or a privilege, its a understanding...... a monogamous person has the right to ask for a monogamous relationship to remain a monogamous relationship but its pretty hard for a person to say that its a privilege for a person to be in a monogamous relationship if that is all the person has been in anyway.....

whether a partner is ok with a person exercising their freedom or not, comes down to the person they are.... and that is why there are a good number of people that lie to their partners and cheat on them as they can not deal with the fact that the partner may NOT accept or agree with the freedoms of a partner...... and the reason why it doesn't work in reverse, is simply cos its a lil fuckin hard for a non monogamous person to say that they are lying to their partner and that they are actually being monogamous behind their partners back, with other people.....

denying ones self is never a good thing unless its things like smoking etc ( I am a smoker and trying to give up makes me as sick as hell ) but there is the common excuse that a person should not have to deny themselves....and that is exactly what happens in some open relationships, a monogamous person denies themselves their right to have a partner and relationship that is monogamous, in order to please the other person who is actually interested in pleasing themselves with other people.....

I have lost count of the number of marriages that I know that have failed and 90% of the time, its cos people realise that marriage takes work, a lot of work, compromise, sacrifice and commitment, not just to each other, but to the children, the mortgage, the housework etc.....and people get too used to having things their way and so when the going gets tough, they pack it all in........

if people want total freedom, then I suggest they think very carefully about committing to anything, like a relationship, a job, a mortgage, a hire purchase, anything that may cramp their style....

tenni

Oct 3, 2012, 1:53 PM

“Does this mean that monogamy is seen as a right and not a privilege by you? “

It seems to me that monogamy is considered a right in my society. It is the expected norm of behaviour of monosexuals with little support for bisexuals' freedom of choice to be sexual with both genders. To deviate is frowned upon. Those who have campaigned for monogamy on this website frequently to support the status quo of morality in a heterosesxual monosexual society have a right to live as a monosexual and struggle with monogamy. They should acknowledge and promote that this is not a good default position for bisexuals though.

Those that promote monogamy on this site are supporting monosexual couple concepts and love as being restricted to one other person. This does not align with the basis of bisexuality imo. Emotional love does not have to be a factor. It may be purely a sexual fulfillment of a bisexual’s sexual nature. The lack of flexibility to include bisexuals who are attracted to both genders is a flaw in such an approach and negative for bisexual health.

It should be a bisexual right to chose non monogamy without discrimination. However, in Cherry’s case, it is not a bisexual issue imo. The man is not interested in same gender sex but cross gender sex. He does seem to want an open relationship though and she doesn't seem to grasp and accept it. She has a right to end the relationship but Gear puts forth some good points for her to examine. I think that her partner's accepting opposite gender lovers into their relationship can be more difficult and especially if you are not biphobic. It is still an open relationship that he is asking for.

A person’s right to explore their sexuality is different than executing a bisexual right to have sex with both genders. Yes, we on this site, should promote it as a right to have sex with both genders. It is as significant as gay’s fight for same sex activity as being acceptable in this monosexual society. People who enter into a relationship with a bisexual should be counselled that the bisexual may need sex with the same gender if it is a cross gender relationship: opposite gender if it is a same sex relationship. Yes, bisexuals have the right to inform any potential partner and those potential partners have a right to enter into a relationship where there is a possibility that this issue might arise. Whether rejecting a bisexual is discriminatory or not is a different issue to be explored on a different thread. Bisexuals should never promise monogamy and this is especially true for sexual bisexuals.

Gearbox

Oct 3, 2012, 8:06 PM

I see monogamy as a type of relationship, a union between two people..... and generally most people see monogamy as a commitment to and with the person they love and want to be with.... so its neither a right or a privilege......
The trouble with unions is that they are made of individuals. That gets overlooked in some cultures etc.

a personal freedom and desire to explore a persons sexuality, doesn't give them the right to tell others that the other person has to agree to it...... and why that doesn't work in reverse, is cos most monogamous people do not have the interest and desire in being with other person cos they are with the person they want to be with.... so monogamy is not a right or a privilege, its a understanding...... a monogamous person has the right to ask for a monogamous relationship to remain a monogamous relationship but its pretty hard for a person to say that its a privilege for a person to be in a monogamous relationship if that is all the person has been in anyway.....
Everybody has the right to explore their sexuality etc. Nobody has the right to allow or agree to it, but some will take the liberty of denying it by dubious means. Amazingly, some will support that 'right' to deny a 'loved one' what they have no right over in the first place.
The monog don't have to stay in a relationship if it changes from monog. They are individuals and don't need permission for that freedom.

whether a partner is ok with a person exercising their freedom or not, comes down to the person they are.... and that is why there are a good number of people that lie to their partners and cheat on them as they can not deal with the fact that the partner may NOT accept or agree with the freedoms of a partner...... and the reason why it doesn't work in reverse, is simply cos its a lil fuckin hard for a non monogamous person to say that they are lying to their partner and that they are actually being monogamous behind their partners back, with other people.....
Many who do ask 'permission' to exersise their already existing freedom, get denied. That is how a monog cheats and lies to partners. Both forms of cheating are as bad as the other.

denying ones self is never a good thing unless its things like smoking etc ( I am a smoker and trying to give up makes me as sick as hell ) but there is the common excuse that a person should not have to deny themselves....and that is exactly what happens in some open relationships, a monogamous person denies themselves their right to have a partner and relationship that is monogamous, in order to please the other person who is actually interested in pleasing themselves with other people.....
The right to want an ideal parner is ok. There is no right to have that partner tho. That's not ok! That's as poisonous thinking as nicotine inhaling.
(I got an electric fag and am on 10 weeks I think. I lost count.lol I sometimes have a fag after sex IF they smoke, but still ok with my electra fag. Try it and cut down.:))

I have lost count of the number of marriages that I know that have failed and 90% of the time, its cos people realise that marriage takes work, a lot of work, compromise, sacrifice and commitment, not just to each other, but to the children, the mortgage, the housework etc.....and people get too used to having things their way and so when the going gets tough, they pack it all in........
Often 'putting the hard work in' involves not going psychotic when your partner kisses another. THAT is what realy takes work! For some it is too much effort, and will throw away their marridge over a simple act of sex. 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.lol
Cherry (on topic.lol) is putting effort in to her relationship in ways others here can't seem to fathom. Good for her!

if people want total freedom, then I suggest they think very carefully about committing to anything, like a relationship, a job, a mortgage, a hire purchase, anything that may cramp their style....
Oh dear, you missed out the monogamists and slave traders.lol

Long Duck Dong

Oct 3, 2012, 9:31 PM

individuals yes, but still in a situation where compromise is a basic aspect of making things work.... and its when a agreement can not be reached, that most relationships run into trouble

much of the argument in regards to denial of the right to explore freedom and sexuality, is flawed in that people say that they are denied permission to explore.... the simple truth is that the other partner has expressed their right not to be in a relationship that is open.... cos they actually do not have the power to stop a person exploring their sexuality or their freedom, and if they did, cheating would not exist for the most part......

when a person cheats on another person, they remove their right of choice to make a informed decision about staying or leaving the relationship / marriage... when it comes to denial of rights, thats about as low as it can get, as its removal of rights by way of lying, deceit and manipulation of the truth.... even the churches and religion struggle to sink that low when it comes to denial of LGBT / same sex marriage rights.....and I am applying that equally to ALL sexualities where a partner cheats .....

the person that most affects the ability to explore their freedom / sexuality, is actually the person that wants to explore their sexuality / freedom, by the choices they make in their life, IE partners they get involved with, how they treat the partner, what they do or do not say etc......cos to say otherwise, is akin to saying that we have no choice what relationship / partner we have.....

Many who do ask 'permission' to exersise their already existing freedom, get denied. That is how a monog cheats and lies to partners. Both forms of cheating are as bad as the other. that statement of yours, makes no sense.....and I would love to hear how you define saying no thank you to a open relationship is cheating and lying by a monogamous person....as they are not doing anything underhanded, they are making a informed choice about the type of relationship they want to be in / stay in.....

Often 'putting the hard work in' involves not going psychotic when your partner kisses another. THAT is what realy takes work! For some it is too much effort, and will throw away their marridge over a simple act of sex. lol I love that statement, a simple act of sex.... thats what you want to see it as... but others do not, they may have a totally different point of view....some people can see it as the most intimate act they share with their partner only cos they love them, suddenly just being turned into something cheap and meaning less... and I am generally talking about the people that will not just jump in bed with anybody, they perfer not to engage in casual sex.....

sex may be a simple act in your eyes, but in my eyes, its amusing the extents that people will go in in order to get laid... and I am talking about the lies, manipulation, backstabbing, betrayal, using people etc etc that people can do in order to have sex.... and the most interesting thing for me, is that it takes two or more people in order to have sex.......if people put as much effort into their relationships and marriages as they did into getting laid, I reckon there would be a very different world than what we live in........

the trouble for many people, is that they have to share the world cos its the only one we have.... so they try to change the world to match what they want, while talking about acceptance and tolerance,.... and that is where so many people fail... cos first they try to change the world to one that they can accept, cos they can not tolerate others having choices and rights that oppose theirs......

both partners in a relationship / marriage, have rights.... its simply a matter of who gives up theirs first, that allows compromise in relationships and marriages....

Gearbox

Oct 4, 2012, 8:13 PM

[QUOT=LDD]much of the argument in regards to denial of the right to explore freedom and sexuality, is flawed in that people say that they are denied permission to explore.... the simple truth is that the other partner has expressed their right not to be in a relationship that is open.... cos they actually do not have the power to stop a person exploring their sexuality or their freedom, and if they did, cheating would not exist for the most part......[/QUOTE]
Nope! Hardcore monogamy involves the denial of anothers sexual freedom. That's what it is. They are free to want that, but that is still what it is.

when a person cheats on another person, they remove their right of choice to make a informed decision about staying or leaving the relationship / marriage... when it comes to denial of rights, thats about as low as it can get, as its removal of rights by way of lying, deceit and manipulation of the truth.... even the churches and religion struggle to sink that low when it comes to denial of LGBT / same sex marriage rights.....and I am applying that equally to ALL sexualities where a partner cheats .....
Yes! Cheaters deny thier partners the right to chose to accept or reject non sexual exclusivity. That isn't very nice at all. Unfortunately for us, we are in societies that religions have influenced a great deal. That's a whole subject for itself.:yikes2:
But talking about how low people can go.....that ball starts rolling when two agree to forgo freedom for each other. It's not as simple as it sounds when the motives are explored. Which of course doesn't happen often, which IMO we have religion to thank for that to some extent.

the person that most affects the ability to explore their freedom / sexuality, is actually the person that wants to explore their sexuality / freedom, by the choices they make in their life, IE partners they get involved with, how they treat the partner, what they do or do not say etc......cos to say otherwise, is akin to saying that we have no choice what relationship / partner we have.....
Choosing to be monog or non-monog doesn't clear any slates, nor relinquish responsibility for what that relationship entails. There's no 'innocent bystanders'

Many who do ask 'permission' to exersise their already existing freedom, get denied. That is how a monog cheats and lies to partners. Both forms of cheating are as bad as the other. that statement of yours, makes no sense.....and I would love to hear how you define saying no thank you to a open relationship is cheating and lying by a monogamous person....as they are not doing anything underhanded, they are making a informed choice about the type of relationship they want to be in / stay in.....
Your defining a relationship as a cold set of rules that come before the person/partner. That is fine as a buisness arrangement.
When such terms as 'love' are used within it, it gets deceitfull. When the 'partner' finds it's not she/he who the monog wants a relationship with in truth, they are cheated out of that premise. They are not loved for the person they are, but given love for the role they fill.

Often 'putting the hard work in' involves not going psychotic when your partner kisses another. THAT is what realy takes work! For some it is too much effort, and will throw away their marridge over a simple act of sex. lol I love that statement, a simple act of sex.... thats what you want to see it as... but others do not, they may have a totally different point of view....some people can see it as the most intimate act they share with their partner only cos they love them, suddenly just being turned into something cheap and meaning less... and I am generally talking about the people that will not just jump in bed with anybody, they perfer not to engage in casual sex.....
Sex can only be an expression of love at best. It doesn't, never has, and never will be the embodyment of it. That is something the staunche monog just can't get into their heads. Wanking off to porn doesn't mean your in love with porn stars.lol BUT sex can still be loving with a stranger. Depends on how willing you are to give love, and not restricted by the numbers.

sex may be a simple act in your eyes, but in my eyes, its amusing the extents that people will go in in order to get laid... and I am talking about the lies, manipulation, backstabbing, betrayal, using people etc etc that people can do in order to have sex.... and the most interesting thing for me, is that it takes two or more people in order to have sex.......if people put as much effort into their relationships and marriages as they did into getting laid, I reckon there would be a very different world than what we live in........
If you mean the the ones that lie about their age, physique etc, then yes it is amazing what some will do to get laid.:eek2: But when it's between two or more that have mutual attraction, I think it's perfectly natural to put effort into it.lol
If the world just stopped for a mo to throw all the fears and self desceptions off it, we'd all be having a damn good shag when possible.:tongue:

the trouble for many people, is that they have to share the world cos its the only one we have.... so they try to change the world to match what they want, while talking about acceptance and tolerance,.... and that is where so many people fail... cos first they try to change the world to one that they can accept, cos they can not tolerate others having choices and rights that oppose theirs......
Malcolm X, wasn't very accepting of some peoples rights & choices. He stood up and pointed out the BS. I think he did us all a favour.

littlerayofsunshine

Oct 7, 2012, 4:23 AM

This response is based solely on the OP I didn't read the responses after.

Open relationships aren't for you ATM in your life. You even say so yourself. A doubt as strong as you express is confirmation you are not ready and it should never be under the guise "Because I want him to be happy". In the end that ends up hurting you and draining you of your patience, tolerance, love and understanding and most importantly self esteem.

He sounds as if he's half check out of your relationship anyway. You're a pillow to lay his head on when he's not off doing something else, but you are not the MAIN in his life. Could you ever be? Who's to say really? But past behavior is a predicate to future behavior.

What do you want out of life and what has he offered you? If the two don't align most of the time, then you both are on different paths that simply cross from time to time and some chaos ensues here and there along with the good times. Which are there more of? Good or bad times? Do you feel shut down to him, Do you feel your insides are begging for what he can't offer you? These questions and those deeper are only ones you can answer yourself, through thorough examination.

Is he A guy or THE guy?

Sorry couldn't have been more positive for ya, but I want you to have the chance at being truly happy and you don't sound anything that resembles happy hun.

Good luck to ya.

elian

Oct 7, 2012, 10:37 AM

Well, real communication has to start somewhere .. and it is very possible that he didn't know just how deeply his actions would affect you until he saw you literally freaking out. People are not perfect. We enter into relationship to learn from one another, to learn about ourselves, to love and provide support but that does not mean that you become the "property" of the other person. I mean no disrespect because it sounds like you've already been through that to some degree in your life - no one deserves to be treated as less than human.

We have free will for a reason, one of the things we learn on this planet is how our actions affect others. One thing I can say is that he did choose you, he did come back to you and he did make a commitment, at least for a little while to try to stay manogomous with you. You should know that it may not always stay that way. Relationships are dynamic, a relationship that does not have room to grow and change as people reach rites of passage is probably not a healthy one. You MUST believe that no matter what happens it will be alright. The universe is not without compassion. People DO love you very much..some of them you probably don't even know. You will NOT be truly alone/abandoned..

:hugs:

cherry88

Oct 8, 2012, 1:15 AM

ok you guys are all super heros and this thread was soooo incredibly helpful and informative. i so much appreciate all the differeing viewpoints and especialy that there was some good debate so that was totally awesome and extremely helpful and just what i wanted. it gave me a ton to think about and helped me in a lot of ways.

One thing I can say is that he did choose you, he did come back to you and he did make a commitment, at least for a little while to try to stay manogomous with you. You should know that it may not always stay that way.

this is true, all of those things are true. he did come back to me. he has said repeatedly he never had any intention of leaving me and this has nothign to do with that. / although im still trying to understand how that would be. (this will be my next question here guaranteed... anyone??) he has been very attentive and loving too since then and listening to a lot of me crying and stuff and not being able to sleep and feeling totally crazy and lost and he has to his credit sat through most of that. not all but a lot. // he comes over anytime i ask him to and hes ben spending lots of time with me being comforting and trying to work on stuff. its hard for us to talk about it and we may need therapy to really talk about anything which is ok. and he says he feels extremely awful that he made me feel this way and that he would never ever ever want to do that again.

and he has promised already that he never will. he has told me that no matter what we ever work out he can see now how important clear boundaries are to me and that he wil know that clarity in boundaries and clarity in agreements whatever they are is exceptionally important to me and that if there is ambiguity, it needs to get checked out -first- no exceptions thats just how it has to be and he has said he is ok with that and now he knows.

hes willing to go to therapy and he is also willing to put this whole thing on the back burner until things have calmed down. i think all that seems good.

a lot of people have mentioned that it might not be a really good relationship and stuff and that i havent talked much about the good parts but honestly this has been an incredibly good wonderful nurturing relationship for almost 3 years. i mean he has stood by me through so much. and just always been so very loving and consistent and attentive and gentle and kind and warm and stuff. i mean really its just been so nice. he always gives me so much attention and stuff i mean he really puts effort into it. he never breaks a promise or does anything really hurtful or disrespectful at all. hes really been -hugely- dependable, consistent, generous, attentive, communicative, and loving the entire time weve been together pretty nonstop and hes really brought a lot of great stuff to my life. we have an amazing sexual life and we really are good friends and we really care about each other a huge amount. we enjoy being together and both of us think and say that we feel prety compatible in some important ways. i mean he says that too. so i mean, the past three years have just been so lovely, not perfect but really, really lovely i mean hes really a super increidble boyfriend and i ilove him a ton. i was really happy before this happened and i would have loved the idea of being with this guy for a very long time. // thats is what i wanted.

that why, this happening was so incredibly shocking for me because it felt so out of character for him and such a werid surprise. thats why it was so terrifying is becuase i had really come to feel so incredibly comfortable that no matter what happened i could count on this guy to handle stuff ethically and stuff. so this was mentally very shocking becuase i am absolutely worst with any kind of suprise.. // so that made it incredibily surreal and terrifying to me and thats why i freaked out so bad. its only because thats honestly the absolutley last thing i would in a billion years expect from this guy, epsecially right now when we both felt stuff between us was going realy well (apparenlty). and thats not cause hes fooling me or whatever like hes really truly that way i mean everyone who knows him like the first words they use to describe him are like ethical and honest and loving. without fail. and he truly is pprobably one of the most purely loving, ethical people ive really ever known to be honest and thats something i really value about him.

so what im determining so far is that to me, this is incredibly out of character and weird and scary because i see him as an ethical, loving guy.... however to him, what he did -was- ethical and loving. // he doesnt see it as out of character at all, or mean or bad or hurtful in any way. he knows that it was, because of how it affected me, but he still ultimately believes thats not because what happened was really wrong.

he thinks pretty closely to the way that gearbox thinks about that stuff.

he has admitted many times not talking to me first was a -huge- mistake that he massively regrets. he mainly regrets it because it messed up our relationship and becuase it hurt me so much. he keeps saying that was the last thing he wanted to do. im still trying to understand that. //

so basically this is a work in progress i wanted to get back to everyone and say thank you and that i wanted to reply in more detail to some awesome points people made (thank you so much) but in the meantime i just wanted to say thank you so much a lot of what you guys said was very comforting even if it wasn't entirely positive and i needed that so much. i have learned soooooooooooooooooo much here and i hope i can continue learning.

falcon yes leopards dont change their spots i dont think he ever was a leopard to begin with.... // i think hes a huge doofus that has his heart on his sleeve so much he forgets other people dont see stuff as purely as he does. and it getes him in trouble very frequently in lots of ways. // ive actually seen that in lots of other ways in his life.

gearbox, you make me think 'perfect love casteth out fear'. i love this guy and one of the reasons i would have to leave him if i cant handle it is cause i love him like wayyyyyyy to much to put him in a box. if i cant handle it then yes i would not want him to be with me if he wastn free because love is free. thats the best thing about love.

everybody else, all brilliant and so much to think about, thank you so much for taking the time, i wanted to say thank you so much. this is ongoing though and theres a lot of questions i still want to ask. its hard for him to explain stuff sometimes cause hes a very abstract thinker and also, he has a hard time focusing his thoughts under stress.. // so i have a lot of questions id love to ask and i hope to ask here at some point because the stuf im learning here is helping me understand all this honestly a bit beter than he is right now and i do want to help him at least to understand he deserves that hes been very good to me.

he just sees him self as a guy who wants this thing, hes wanted it in every relationship hes been in, to him its who he is and i knew that. hes a very sexual being its a huge part of who he is and he doesnt want to get to the end of his life with regrets cause he gave stuff up cause he happened to be in a long term relationship.. thats how he explains it.. sure as hell wish hed been more communicative about it prevoiusly but like you said people are not perfect.

i believe him this hasnt happened before, in case anyone wonders. i also belive if we do make an agreement he agrees to, he will stick to it. no i dont intend to hold him to monagamy. it means alot to me he offered it and im very thankful but i know thats temporary while we work stuff out. // i couldnt ethically do that i dont own other humans and i would never try. i would hope that he loves me enough to respect me and care for me on his own, i couldnt mandate that if its not what he feels.

You MUST believe that no matter what happens it will be alright. The universe is not without compassion. People DO love you very much..some of them you probably don't even know. You will NOT be truly alone/abandoned..

:hugs:

thank you this was very kind..... it made me cry. thats an awesome thing to remember. i have a lot of stuff i still want to ask here and i jsut wanted to give an update ok. thanks everyone i am trying to really stretch here and you are all helping extremely.

dont know if i can handle it (and i still have no idea what will ultimately happen betwen us obvoiusly) but yes while i am here this lesson is in my lap so i want to try to choose love.

cherry88

Oct 8, 2012, 6:08 PM

elian

Oct 8, 2012, 9:14 PM

Hmm, for some people open relationships are okay and others it makes them feel very uncomfortable. The first time I tried to date a couple I found it to be exhausting, because I wanted to be there for BOTH of them and it is hard enough just to focus your energy on one person. I found it to be a bit strange but at that time in my life I needed the reassurance that I really could love and be loved by both genders and it made sense. They were young and also trying to figure it out at the time as well. One half really wanted to be in a dedicated manogomous relationship and the other wanted to experiment more. Out of one partner's love for the other it was allowed to happen and I was allowed to be there. As far as I know they did eventually break up, and eventually both settled down with other people. I still love both of them for what they taught me but the distance was just too much and so I had to be "the bad guy" and break it off.

After having the experience I can understand why it may appeal to some people, especially bisexual people who are attracted to both genders..but it would have to be a pretty special relationship for me to feel comfotable there vs. a committed relationship. Somehow I ended up in another open relationship with a very loving man and it took me a long time to realize that it really was okay that I was there. I couldn't believe that someone wouldn't be jealous. His wife is a wonderful person, thoughtful and intelligent..if I ever knew that I was causing either one of them pain by being there I would rather leave than break up the relationship they share. Distance again conspired against us as he had to move almost a day away from me. I still love him because he was the first man who really, honestly cared for me in more than a "one night stand" sort of thing. He probably always will have a place in my heart but I do look for someone closer. He understands that but I think it is still a little painful. He really is a sweetheart.

Maybe joint or seperate therapy is a good thing because then you both can at least see what motivates your actions.

Sometimes people seem to come into and go out of your life for a reason. I have never REGRETTED any of the partners I've had (which I can count on a handful of fingers), even if circumstances didn't work out, maybe breakup was painful but I have always felt it was worthwhile to care for them and feel love toward them, it is one of the great things we can experience in life.

If he is not abusive to you and he doesn't bring home a disease then I might continue to work with him and see where it leads. If it was MY boyfriend and we didn't already have an agreement then he might get one more chance to decide what he really wanted and hopefully we would have the patience to talk through it as a couple and come to an agreement. Of course, none of us can hold someone against their will..nor would I ever really want to.

The way I think about love is that it is rather like rays of sunshine - you can't OWN it, it's not like you can put rays of sunshine in a box and hide them away for a rainy day...when the sun shines on me it warms me, and I in turn can warm other people as well.

falcondfw

Oct 8, 2012, 11:22 PM

oh i cant edit anymore but it occured to me i left something out which is why i would even take a gamble like this.... // it probly sounds really ill advised on the face of it and i want you al lto know i appreciate your cautions and im taking them all very seriously ok.

ok so its just that ive had really really really good experiences with my relationships so far. ive had 3 long term relatoinsips (6 yrs, 5 yrs, 8 yrs) before this and each of those guys is my best friend today i mean seriously i started a face book thing a couple months ago and my first 3 friends were my exes. they swarmed my page with all kinds of nice notes and artwork and stuff it was very heartwarming. i mean right now on my facebook page literaly 90% of the content is little notes and stuff ffrom my exes. i talk to al of them all the time and i can count on them for anything really anything at anytime. not only are they al my friends they are also even at this point friends with each oher and two of them have even been roommates.

i really really value those relationships and how supportive they have been over the years, those people are my substitute family, i mean its been almost 30 years since my first, i talk to him all the time today. my daughters father would stil give me the shirt off his back any minute and i owuld do the same for him and we are like best friends ever. all that love lasted long after we all broke up and it was real and stood the test of time. so in those cases i chose love and my trust was put in the right place and those are some of the best most ongoing supportive relationsihps in my life.

so i really thought this guy would be the same i thought even if we didn't stay together we would always be totally best friends, im such a good judge of character usually and i am just not really wrong about that stuff. i think this guys love for me is true and real.

that being said, it may definitely still be he is checked out of the relationship, or that something else is happening that i am not understanding or aware of, that is making him want this stuff, and that really -does- mean something negative for this relatiionship or even our friendsip.

i am taking that seriously ok and thats something i really really want and need to explore and what im hoping to figure out next. in other words:

i feel like in some circumstances, someone wanting people out side their main partner is evidence of lack of trust or love or someone being not into the relationship. however i get the idea also that it can also mean other things, and it doesnt -have- to mean something bad.

so what i need to figure out now is which it is in this case and the jury is still totally out right now. my feeling is that there -is- some lack of respect with the carelessness and the unclear communication. i definitely feel that. that is being my biggest problem right now. that is what troubles me the most -much- much more than that he just wants to be with other people. i feel that there might definitely be something wrong there somewhere, and im not sure how to figure out what it is. or maybe it is what he says it is: him just wanting to feel like a more fulfilled appreiciated human being within the context of our existing relationsihp. // (which is what he continually insists that it is)

but this is what i need to determine now ok and this is why i am giving him the chance whether or not we stay together. i truly love men and theyve been good to me in all their glorious faults and so this is the only reason i would try to stick with something like this ok.

also he has said that the reason he made this mistake like i told you guys was that hes used to me being very laid back about that stuff and rarely jealous. like he also is best friends with his ex they have been roomates the whole time ive known him. (no no funny biz there! haha) but ive always encouraged and loved that relatoinsip for him cause i know how valuable those typs of friendships can be. not a lot of girls would necessarily be like that i dont think. im really honetsly just not a jealous or insecure person usualy so he could probably be partly excused for thinking im laid back about that stuff.

his ex and best friend is also the one who is in a very open relatoinship, she sleeps with peopel alllllll the time and is always bringing them home to their house, its absolutely the norm in their life, thats whats going on in their house alllll the time. and she and her boyfriend are very very loving anyhow. so i mean to be fair, hes never been in a 'closed' relationship, and basically his closest frineds think its a billion percent normal and they do it alll the time right in front of him at his house, and it apparently totally works for them.

so you know, it is something that is kind of normal to him in some ways. they see it as something extremely loving and not at all taking away from a relationship. to be fair that is how they see it. and, she herself has told him that not telling me first was a big deal and a really bad idea.

so there is a lot to still figiure out here ok and im really not trying to just be dumb or discount anyones good advice ok.

i just wanted to explain that im not basing this stuff on just being dumb its because these kinds of gambles have paid off for me and im very invested in my love and friendship and connection with this guy that goes way past our relationsihp and this is what i want to work on and understand ok...... and i sure hope that we also stay togehter and work it all out cause like i said, im really into him and i feel like we have a lot of good times.

just wanted to explain some of that ok and yeah this is what i need to figure out next. i dont know really how to figure out if this a symptom of something deeper that really is wrong, or i something that could actually be ok. thats what i need to figure out right now and what i want to find out next.

ok thanks again just felt i needed to clarify that ok... didnt want anyone to think i was discounting their advice... thanks again very much for your insight so far.

Wow!

Ok. Where do I start?

First of all, you must be a hell of a lotta fun to have in someone's life. Seems like you and your mind BOTH are always going about 3,000,000 miles per second! What a whirling dervish! But a fun one. And a sweet one.

Second, I honestly, really truly do hope things work out for you and your bf. This is, IMHO, a serious situation with the trust and the communication issues and if you two can make it through, that is a true testament to both of you and your ability to do whatever it takes to make things work and for the long term viability of your relationship.

Third, I wish I was in your situation in several ways. My ex-wife and I can't stand the sight of each other sometimes and the rest of the time, we are cordial and communicative, but never friendly. We had to separate so she could take our son back to her home country for his educational reasons (he is special needs - simple explanation, but there is a whole lot more to it.) and we were apart for most of 2 years. When she came back, she was a totally different person and wanted nothing to do with fixing things most of the time. Sometimes she did. I hate divorce. I hate that we couldn't make it work. I hate what it has done to our kids. I wish she and I could at least be real friends.

Fourth, YOU know your relationship and SO better than anyone. Sometimes it takes a third party, but usually, YOU are the best one to judge whether you should try to save things or not. Stating the obvious though, don't go by past successes completely. Apparently, you have done well, so far, but everyone is an individual and different. That being said, you seem to have your head really on straight about your relationship with this guy. And finally, on this vein, there is absolutely NO substitute for women's intuition. lol.

Fifth, it is interesting that you say he is not used to monogamous relationships. But honestly, you are making excuses. HE CHOSE a monogamous relationship with you. If he did not feel he could handle that, he should have been honest up front, no matter what excuse he gives. "Oh, I was so in love with her and I was so afraid of losing her.". Well, if he loved you so much, he should have trusted your reaction and been able to communicate with you. No excuses. What is his fault, is his fault.

Sixth, from your previous post, it seems he realizes he really screwed up and really wants to make amends. That is AWESOME! and Kudos to him for realizing it. The fact he is willing to go to counseling speaks volumes. A lot of guys are too proud to do that (some girls too).

Seventh, I understand why you explained about his best friends' relationship. But, you cannot let him use that as an excuse. He probably doesn't, but just don't let him if he tries. That is THEIR relationship. It works for them. It doesn't for you. He needs to, and he seems like he is, focus on you and your needs, not what works for others.

Eighth, the reason people mentioned he might not be a good relationship for you is because we are concerned about you. You mentioned you have issues and that he knew about them and from what you wrote, it did not seem like he cared much about your issues, only about his own needs. As we get more into the story, it seems he is coming around and realizing what he risked and what he did, so we can be more supportive of the relationship as he is more supportive of you.

Finally, we take the time to answer, because you are an engaging person and obviously trying to find yourself and your relationship and we want to help you find the best situation for yourself. But mostly, because we are caring people and very welcoming (and because we have a lot of REALLY BAD experiences among us. lol.). You are more than welcome.