what seems like 60 shades of grey..

[hiswife]

I'm so confused. I've joined this site and a support group as well, trying to find answers or something that makes sense and I'm more confused than ever!!
First let me start by saying in no way am I a homophobe. I'm very much for gay rights/marriage and happiness in same sex relationships and never once thought about leaving my husband because of his preference.
I need to know if I'm his beard. My husband has so many gay tendencies, while claiming just "bi"and he's become extremely possessive of me. I've even gone so far as to talking to one of my gay friends about some things that seemed off to me for a man claiming just bi and he felt deeply he was hiding... my friend that's a counselor feels the same. Yet I still hold doubt because I read the POV from people on this site.

I'll back up a little.. I found out in January after an excruciating 2010 seeing all the red flags of cheating and being lied to. You know the signs- cologne on random days, keeping cell phone from me, leaving for odd amounts of time
saying he was going to the movies but not long enough to get there watch it and come back..out for an hr and a half drives, oh and the biggest of all -NO sex the entire year. Of course I thought it was another woman because while
I'm not a homophobe-my husband sure portrayed one!! So that never entered my mind.
I stumbled across an open craigslist ad he had answered and left the tab open on my computer... he was at work so I texted him in a very supportive and loving manner- he came clean to an extent. It took months of talking every single night well until 2am to find out the details to his other life. Honestly I'm still finding out many new things as recent as a few months ago-

We decided to try an open marriage- well that went disastrous for two reasons... he became extremely jealous, and two, he never could perform when he was with the woman. Including several times with me he lost an erection- That was a very hard emotion for me to process. BUT when the man touched him he became aroused immediately.
SO many things lead me to believe he is lying to himself and me as well.
-He is a "top" so all that he gets from a man he can get from me and yes I'm
willing
-He's been challenged to seek a woman, he never pursues,.. yet upgrades his gay/bi aps instead
-this one is the "grey" topic that I've become confused on.. he says he doesn't ever want to be with
a man completely yet I read all the time that he likes to kiss if the guy is shaved,(he tells me he would never kiss a man) he comments how great their body looks and that he loves a tight "@$$". I'm pretty open and he knows I'm good with gay/lesbian relationships.
all the while uh hum- hello- I have a nice round smooth tight ass as he tells these men he likes..but he won't touch mine! and when tries with me because I want it...he goes limp.

I've tried talking to him - be he shuts down, I figured he's never been one to talk much anyway but this might be an embarrassment so I try to keep from doing that to him.

Whenever he was about to get some he'd consent to me seeking a man, then when he was fulfilled he yanked that idea
back.. he did this often.
Finally I got sick of the control and did it anyway. He found out and it's been hell! I feel he's always watching me
checking up on me and controlling everything I do. I feel smothered.

When we started the open marriage thing.. it was actually a breath of fresh air for me. I had just started to lose weight after having 3 more children in my 30's, two of which are twins...people were noticing (men too) and it felt good to have any positive attention directed toward me. I'm going to confess, recently I have dug deep and been honest with myself... I married him because he was a good man, I was 28 with a 7 year old, and scared I would become an old maid. I love him, but I've never been in love with him. Before him I was exposed for the first time to a pretty exciting sex life, then with him it was anything but exciting. So the open marriage idea was very much welcomed and I believe I was the one that suggested it.
Note: prior to an agreement about this open marriage I was never unfaithful.

So much more to tell y'all.
One comment he has used is- he 'didn't see what he was doing as cheating because it was with the opposite sex..it would be crossing the line otherwise'
I damn near fell off my chair when he said that!
He's always said that he's fine if I want to be other women- he'd have no problems with that... I told him sex with either gender was the same in my eyes it's a preference, and I prefer men. But he's been adamant about me being with a man.

[tenni]

I don't know. You certainly are portraying your husband in a very negative light.

What is good about this guy? Why are you staying with him?

[Jobelorocks]

He may be gay, he may be bi. Sometimes gay men do marry women to appear "normal", but there are plenty of other possibilities as well. It is possible that he is only romantically interested in women and not sexually attracted to women. Maybe just at this time he is much more sexually attracted to men than women. Many bisexuals have a very fluid sexuality and it changes over time. Another possibility is that he is more interested in men at the time due to it being "taboo", "forbidden", or just different then what he has had in the past. It could also be so many different things that I didn't think up.

I know that there are all sorts of bisexuals out there. I am a bisexual woman who is sexually attracted to both men and women, but only romantically attracted to men. At the time I am more sexually attracted to males than females the past 10 or so years, but as a young teen I was more sexually attracted to women.

I think that your hubby isn't being fair to you with the fact that he thinks it fine for him to sleep with other men, but not for you to sleep with other men. He may feel inadequate in the first place due to his troubles holding an erection for you and the fact that you want to sleep with other men may make him feel even worse. He also may feel threatened you may leave him for another man, or feel that he should be all the man you need. There are plenty more reasons too. He shouldn't be able to make the decision alone for the both of you on what sexual activities are okay. It should be a decision you two make together, not him making the decision that he should be able to do whatever he wants, but you can't do the same. You two probably should go to couples counseling and hopefully you two can get to the bottom of your issues.

[hiswife]

tenn, I've only posted what is true. What's good about him is that he provides for us- does his part helping me around thehouse and we can share laughs together- I care for him.
He hasn't been a very good dad because of his frustrations.. but even early in our relationsgip of 13 years 12 being married he wasn't good with the kids. He's only admitted being with men for the past 4 years because that's how much proof I have found..he won't agree to any longer than that... He lies about preferences - I later find to be true. I have always been accepting but the denial and lies lead me to believe he doesn't want to admit or be honest with himself.

"rocks" Another possibility is that he is more interested in men at the time due to it being "taboo", "forbidden", or just different then what he has had in the past. It could also be so many different things that I didn't think up.
DEAD on! We have discussed these things and you are right... but how is that even fair? I know that he will never not be homosexual and I've never ever asked that of him. I believe that would be wrong to deny who he his.. He will totally admit to being bi...but very adamant about being gay- just like he was adamant that he was against gay actions before he came clean with me so to speak..

[Gearbox]

It sounds more like he's gay and in denial, or is sexualy 'numb' and needs that taboo to kickstart his drive. You hear of some who have little interest in vanilla sex, but can't wait to get a rubber suit on and be horsewhipped etc.
His homophobic comments maybe just a way to make a 'naughty thing' that much naughtier, and that much more exciting. Belive me I've heard "That's fucking disgusting...mmm..do it slower...ohhh that's filthy..", from m&f sex partners in my time, and I'm def NOT the only one.lol
So I agree with Jobolorocks there too. It's possible.
I've also heard of husbands who don't feel comfy having sex with their wives (pure) but will go out a fuck a hooker (whore) too. Sex is 'dirty' and that's how they like it. But yours don't seem to want that with a female, as far as you know. He may feel the guilt of cheating if he did.

No matter what he is though, I'm glad you don't let him control the relationship. If he's jealous & possesive, well that's just HIS bad luck there NOT yours.
You seem very honest with yourself, so just admit that your not getting anywhere with him at the mo honesty-wise, quit goading him for it, and start focusing on what you CAN improve: sex for a start. Take his example and ignore all his retractions! Also discuss how you want what his hookups get, and can't wait for some bloke like him to give it to you, whether they are single or not.:rolleyes:
That might go either way! Could turn him on, or get him psychotic (jealous). BUT it will bring it into 'reality' for him. Could make him see connections between you and those he fucks, and hopefully make him evaluate his whole sexual persona.
Well something needs a jolt!

[tenni]

"One comment he has used is- he 'didn't see what he was doing as cheating because it was with the opposite sex..it would be crossing the line otherwise'
I damn near fell off my chair when he said that!
He's always said that he's fine if I want to be other women- he'd have no problems with that... I told him sex with either gender was the same in my eyes it's a preference, and I prefer men. But he's been adamant about me being with a man."

I actually understand his thinking on this aspect. I know many here do not accept this rationale though. I think that some bisexual men do separate and distinguish between same gender sex and opposite gender sex. Like it or not that is how some of us think. It may or may not be logical or appropriate.

"-He is a "top" so all that he gets from a man he can get from me and yes I'm
willing"

Uh, no he can not get what he wants from you. Ask him what he gets from being with a man and he may say that he wants the male body and sexual interaction with other men. He may even want a psychological intimacy with a man and not just the physical. You are not a man and so you may not be able to give him what he wants. Some bi guys want to be penetrated and a woman with a strap on works for them but not top men.

I am not sure exactly why but I sense that he may feel emasculated and he seems quite repressed about his sexuality (whether he is bi or gay) and communication skills.

Having written that, you mention that you are not in love with him. It seems that you married him for security reasons and not because you were in love with him. You have not written why you are staying with him at this point? Is it still about security for you and your kids?

It doesn't seem like a healthy relationship the way that he is behaving. Is there a possibility for marriage counselling with a pro bisexual or poly experienced counsellor? I don't think that it is good for you or your kids in the long run to maintain the status quo.

[tenni]

Hi
I just came across this article about SMSM (straight men who have sex with men). I don't know if this is your husband or not. It is an interesting read. I am uncertain myself if I see things exactly this way but you may find this interesting if you have not read it. It does show you that it is not binary(gay/straight) and not even tertiary (3 categories)

http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/straight_men_who.html

[LeeNorCal]

@tenni, thanks for the link on SMSM. It's very informative. The section that states: "...SMSM might fantasize about men, but their primary sexual and romantic attractions are toward women. They are heterosexual men who for a variety of reasons engage in sexual behavior with other men. They are not gay, nor are they bisexual, though their sexual behavior includes sex with other men. The key point is that they do not self-identify or see themselves as gay or bisexual." I would tend to think @hiswife's husband is not really straight or bisexual, but an "in-denial" gay man. From what i gleamed from @hiswife's post, her husband has no interest in sex with women (even her.) My experience is that "in-denial" gays are the most publicly vocal anti-gay people.

@hiswife, you are obviously an attractive and intelligent woman, and I agree with @jobelorocks that your husband is being unfair in not allowing you to follow your own sexuality in your "open" marriage, but has no problem if you were to be with another woman. I think this is a logical conclusion on his part in denying his own sexual preference. If you both agree to counseling, I would recommend, as one who has been there/done that, that it include a sexual orientation awareness component. Awareness is the first step to true happiness.

[cbb83]

Relationships that don't involve total equality between partners are doomed to either fail or be a miserable experience filled with frustration and emotional trauma. IMO, tell him to either be equitable with you or move on. You're meant to be his partner, not his captive or pet.

Sorry for the bluntness, but it's better to just "rip the band-aid off" than take it slow, if you know what I mean. You're young, you're attractive, you seem intelligent - I am sure there are plenty of people (of either gender) who would be thrilled to call you their partner and enjoy your "nice smooth tight ass", since your husband doesn't seem interested.

In short: don't be afraid of moving on if it comes to that. Your prospects are probably still very good. So, if this is causing you pain and it can't be reconciled - move on, because you deserve better.

[hiswife]

@hiswife, you are obviously an attractive and intelligent woman, and I agree with @jobelorocks that your husband is being unfair in not allowing you to follow your own sexuality in your "open" marriage, but has no problem if you were to be with another woman. I think this is a logical conclusion on his part in denying his own sexual preference. If you both agree to counseling, I would recommend, as one who has been there/done that, that it include a sexual orientation awareness component. Awareness is the first step to true happiness.
Thank you! I posted an update to our talk in the Bi married men thread...
I did not include that I have questioned his sexuality in a way without attack - he QUICKLY becomes defensive and becomes adamant he is NOT GAY and only bi... tells me that I am constantly trying to fit a circle into a square.
I replied that I am not accussing yet trying to figure things out that don't make sense to me. I told him I have learned from research that there is A LOT of "grey" the to BI lifestyle. There are many scenerio's to preference that apparently are not gay- that me being straight needs to learn and don't quiet understand yet. Society has made people believe "black and white" and I'm one that has always questioned and researched to find more...
Anyhow..I believe in time he will admit he is gay- but I do not believe this will happen anything shy of 10 years from now.

[topper99florida]

HisWife: that's a really complex situation! I think everyone's made pretty good comments, and my hat's off to you for bringing it up in the forum. Counseling of some sort sounds best, I would suggest couples-counseling, but if your hubby isn't interested in going, you should for your own peace of mind. I think in my time I've heard it all from men: "I'm straight, not gay" from one male playmate of mine nearly made me laugh, since we had just spent an hour wrestling around naked in bed. Women aren't immune though, and I've got a close family member, now a wife with kids, who thinks she's not cheating so long as she's sleeping with other girls (her hubby does not know).

It's quite possible that your husband really doesn't know what he wants either: men, women, open-marriage, etc, might sound good on Friday night, but by Saturday morning when reality sets in and the sun comes up, things may have changed 180 degrees for him. I wish you the best of luck on this.

[newbie40]

I think a few folks have said it already: get counselling, or go to a couple's retreat, get help! I've been married for 32 yrs and if we didn't counsel at one point along the way, we'd probably not be together now. That would have been a tragedy because we're having a grand time now. Outside help (no kids) will assist keeping the anger out of discussions (honest discussions) you two need desperately. Indeed it will help; either you'll get closer again and sort it all out, or it will help move each of you on your own separate paths; either way it will help.
You mentioned you are not "in love" but you love him. I wasn't in love with my wife when I married her (but I did love her). But now, I am absolutely in love with her! I can honestly say I love her more now than at any time in my life. And I do not love anyone else more than her. The marriage wasn't always rosy, but it is certainly worth the efforts (for us at least).
From what you've been saying, he has controlling issues, and those comments worry me most of all. Those issues need to be addressed right away, or things may get very nasty down the line (seen it too often with friends of mine).
Best of luck.

[hott4it]

Sound like he is pure gay honey sorry. I know for a fact I am bi and its just about the dick to me but you are one gorgeous lady and would be beating me with a stick to get me off of you. You really are a beautiful woman and if he has no interest in you there is not much hope for him and woman. I am not trying to stroke your ego I just find you gorgeous just my thoughts

[PulseFusion]

I’m fairly new here, but have appreciated reading your posts. They're open and thoughtful.

I scanned through this thread and thought I’d toss in my own observations too. First, I know some have recommended couples counseling, and I suppose that could be helpful; but I’m also sure its no panacea. In other words, its nice to think there's somebody bigger out there that has answers or can lead the way, but it’s not actually the case very often, and so you could get somebody really helpful, but finding that counselor would not be less difficult than finding a good friend or lover in my opinion. You need to be careful.

Regarding whether your husband is mainly gay, which seems to be the main thrust of your thread, I tend to doubt it. Obviously I only have the information you posted, but it appears you've been open and objective. So I'll toss out some impressions/thoughts that came to me about what you've written.

I think he’s more likely going through a phase in life and is generally not dealing well with issues right now. He did pursue and marry you. Also, he has provided and must enjoy being a provider for you although that is costly in many ways for any person. Also, he's possessive of you and can feel jealousy about you. I doubt many gay men would be so conflicted about their orientation that they’d exhibit all these behaviors. I think the full thrust of his sexuality and being would cause him to want to be and do all these things for another man.

So I’m guessing he isn’t showing interest in you or other women right now for other reasons. Maybe he’s just going through a phase where he’s interested in something new? I mean, you gave him permission and so he’s been cut loose to explore and new things are interesting and exciting. You can’t compete with something new because the one thing you cannot do is be new to him. Just a thought. Another thought is that maybe he’s got a confidence problem with you and other women right now? I mean, you mentioned that you haven't enjoyed him in bed as much as other men. Maybe he has picked up on that, and who gets excited when they don’t feel wanted? Maybe men are just feeling easier to him right now, and who wants to be where they're not wanted?

So I doubt he's fully gay, but I'd also suggest there are some things you can focus on for yourself that don't really require that you know the answers about your husband. You should not put up with him failing to communicate and attempting a double standard. If the marriage is open for him, then it is for you to, and if he won’t address these things with you; you need to spend time thinking about what you are willing to do about pushing him to do what he should do verses why you might be willing to tolerate him not doing what he should do. Know yourself and your own motives first and be honest with yourself. Then I think you'll know what to do about your relationship, or at least know what you are seeking in a counselor.

[itsmeandyou]

He shouldn't have been cheating behind your back. If he was interested in having a bi affair, or had ttried it, at that point he should have told you what was going on. My opinion, of course.

[hiswife]

He shouldn't have been cheating behind your back. If he was interested in having a bi affair, or had ttried it, at that point he should have told you what was going on. My opinion, of course. We have discussed this and he was so affraid he'd lose me.


You can’t compete with something new because the one thing you cannot do is be new to him. Just a thought. Another thought is that maybe he’s got a confidence problem with you and other women right now? I mean, you mentioned that you haven't enjoyed him in bed as much as other men. Maybe he has picked up on that, and who gets excited when they don’t feel wanted? Maybe men are just feeling easier to him right now, and who wants to be where they're not wanted?I’m fairly new here, but have appreciated reading your posts. They're open and thoughtful.
I think you hit the nail on the head!
My problem is I don't want to continue to hurt him in that area (I know how it feels- years of it from him) but as I said in another thread- there are things we've tried that I love that do not work for us. Am I supposed to just sacrafice and deal with our kind of sex? Sometimes I really need that spark- and he cannot give it to me.

[tenni]

Hi
I'm bringing this thread back up because there is a lot of discussion about the content of this thread on another thread (do older guys turn bi) ;)


hiswife posted on another thread today the following:

"My response was;
He claims he is a top only and will not entertain the idea of getting fucked. I asked.. I was on top of him and and our third was behind me.. such pleasure that I rambled off to him that he should try this it feels so good- guess what- he went soft.

So last night was the first night in almost two weeks we have been intimate- he was very eager, we both had a little to drink so needless to say we were quite frisky.... It was going well I won't get into sorted details as I know that rubs some the wrong way- lets just say we were both getting pleased... then it felt like he switched gears went to doing "something else"- doing it well- but still changed gears- ..and not so much to my surprise when I touched to caress ..he had lost his erection..
THIS is why I am here! I need to know why a man that claims to want to be with his "hot wife" his words- can be getting it on hot and heavy then what seems out of the blue loses an erection? This doesn't happen with the men he's with.
He used to say, "I need to see a Dr" when I knew very little about his activities and he'd use that as an excuse- I say this because he did admit this-

He has told me in the past when we discussed this happening that he has lost his erection because he is thinking that I am thinking he's thinking about being with a man.. Did you get that?
So last night there is NO WAY he had to think that my mind went there.. NO WAY!

I know this bothers him - I am at a loss on what to do /how to handle this delicate situation."

[elian]

"..He has told me in the past when we discussed this happening that he has lost his erection because he is thinking that I am thinking he's thinking about being with a man.. Did you get that?
So last night there is NO WAY he had to think that my mind went there.. NO WAY!.."

I know this bothers him - I am at a loss on what to do /how to handle this delicate situation."

Honestly, unless you can read minds you can't tell what he was thinking and thoughts are fleeting, it only takes a split second to become distracted. Was your husband ever abused?

I normally don't post graphic details about my relationships with other people but on more than one occasion I have had the following thoughts during lovemaking:

"Oh that feels very good, oh yes - wait! - My partner is doing all of the work" (panic, loses concentration - dick goes limp)

"Oh that feels very good, oh yes - l want my partner to feel appreciated too" .. (reaches over to fondle and breaks concentration on feeling good - partner's arm gets tired of mutual masturbation to the point that I basically say "Honey, that's enough - I love you.")

(in the middle of a kiss) "This gay man really likes me, I wonder if I like men as much as he does" (nervous about the wrong thing)

(on being mounted reverse cowboy with a woman on top) "I have never managed to stay aroused before with a woman" (and my dick goes limp).

One big problem for me is mastrubation, I believe it is healthy but I engage in it probably more frequently than I should. When you have a partner it is sort of selfish. If I wait a while the sexual response is much better.

Patience? If anything I would ask my wife or husband to be patient with me. It isn't that I don't enjoy lovemaking - I LOVE giving/receiving attention, affection and pleasure so much but it has taken a lot for me just to feel comfortable.

Permission..? I am by no means into pain but there is still a little bit of guilt about loving men (will he really accept me?, will OTHER people accept me), and I grew up around women all my life so I view them more as sisters - sounds stupid but it was only a few years ago that it dawned on me that they desire sex just as much.

I haven't always been treated kindly in the past by people so I am ALWAYS thinking, trying to anticipate things, how people will react - so yes, almost permission from my partner to let go and feel good and not worry about things so much. If it DOESN'T happen to know that it's not the end of the world.

I guess sex is different for other people, maybe they focus more on the physical. Romance actually means something to me..and I have met at least one man who I know cares but even so we still only could meet every once in a while. Trust is still a problem, it shouldn't be - but that's more a problem with me than anyone else.

Sorry I can only relate my own personal experience to you, I'm not sure if it even really applies to your situation. I read some of the other responses in here and I think they are very thoughtful.

[elian]

A lot of men said rotten things to me when I was growing up, I've never really forgotten those things and talking about my past experiences brings some of those old feelings back. I have actually come a long way from where I started, it is important to not dwell on the past but focus on the present..

[hiswife]

I'm reading a book now thatis helping me understand all these questions I have. I'm taking a break from the forum for a bit- Y'all have a Happy New Year!

...and THANKS! for everything!