bi boyfriend, confused straight girlfriend... [Archive]

Melina

Apr 10, 2013, 8:04 AM

My boyfriend and I have been together for five and a half years now (honestly, I'm terrified of the thought of marriage or else we probably would be since he keeps bringing it up)...and when our relationship first started, he told he was straight...I can understand why due to the views of a lot of people...especially around where we live. Before I ended up finding out he is bi, he ended up telling me he was masochistic which honestly was harder for me to accept then him being bi, which in reality...he never told me, his six-year-old son did (and neither me nor my boyfriend know how that kid found out)...it's just my boyfriend's being bi had never really been an issue since I didn't really care. The main reason it's becoming an issue is because here recently he's been mentioning wanting to have sex with other men. To a degree, I can understand him wanting too...but I don't like the idea of 'sharing' him with someone else. I've had a friend tell me 'If he gives a damn about you, he wouldn't cheat on you or want you to 'share' him with someone else'. And others tell me that's it's something I'd need to accept being in a relationship with someone who's bisexual. And I've had a friend of his tell me 'There's no way in hell you could possibly have known what you were getting yourself into when you two got involved...that man is not capable of only having one relationship. There are ways to train him not to...I just don't see it being possible for someone weaker then he is'. His bisexuality had been an issue in the past because he ended up cheating on me...but I ended up staying with him due to something that happened soon after. It's just confusing for me now because it's almost like he's asking for my permission but I just don't know what the hell to do anymore. I mean, if I accepted it...I'd be fucking miserable...but if I don't...I'm scared of losing him. I just don't know what the hell to do anymore...that isn't going to end up hurting one of us or possibly BOTH of us. Suggestions?

P.S. If this is the wrong site for this...I apologize.

Realist

Apr 10, 2013, 8:57 AM

Hi Melina, Welcome

No, you've found the right site. There are some very thoughtful and intelligent folks here and some may give you some constructive things to think about. Be aware that you may be antagonized, too. Like every walk of society, there are those who might delight in tormenting you. Please ignore them and concentrate on those who might give you an idea of how you can handle this situation.

Personally, I see a lot of pain in your post. It's not easy switching tracks in the middle of a relationship, especially when you thought your life was one way....then found out there's secrets, twists, and turns, to deal with.

As a life-long bisexual, I'm probably not the best person for you to talk to, but there are some straight folks, here, who may tell you how they dealt with their bisexual partners.

Good luck!

Melina

Apr 10, 2013, 9:11 AM

My boyfriend's been one revolving secret after another...but this is one where nobody that I know in real life's been much help. I mean the person I'd normally ask when I have an issue with my boyfriend...well, he was the one who said 'If he gives a damn about you...' And the only bisexual person I actually know aside from my boyfriend is a friend of my boyfriend...and he's the one my boyfriend slept with so there isn't a chance in hell of me asking him. And there's not THAT many people I know in real life and even less who know about my boyfriend's...sexuality...so this has been...difficult.

I appreciate the luck!

tenni

Apr 10, 2013, 10:45 AM

Hi Melina
Like Realist, I'm a bisexual. I don't know how much you know about bisexuality but you might want to do some research on it by google and things. Here are a couple of key aspects about bisexuality.

1/ There are a wide range of bisexuality possibilities. Some "need" sex with both genders while others have a more generalized attraction to both genders.
2/ One of the factors is that many bisexuals seem to have what we call "fluidity". Their attraction for each gender ebbs and flows. Some bisexuals have a constant and firm attraction for one gender and a minor attraction for the other.
3/ Some bisexuals' attraction is purely a physical attraction to both genders and their emotional attraction/needs are met by only one gender. Others have physcial and emotional attractions to both genders. Some can even be in love with a person from each gender at the same time.
4/ Male bisexuals tend to be more secretive due in part to perceptions of masculinity and there is a stronger social taboo for men to be attracted to other men.
There are more ideas and some may dispute what I wrote.

You mention that you were ok with his bisexuality but what it seems like is that you didn't think that it made a difference. I think that you have a lot of self reflection to deal with.

Your dislike of sharing him may need self reflection and a lot of discussion with him. What is it that you dislike about the sharing aspect? Is it emotional sharing that is the most scary? You may be grappling with the concept of monogamy and being in a relationship with a bi guy. It is good that he is discussing his attraction to other men now. Discuss with him his emotional attraction to men. For some bisexuals it is purely physical as I wrote above. For some bi guys it can be very genital focused.(cock lover and not the actual man attached to it) They don't care about the rest of the person and certainly not in love with another man.

I don't think that there are ways to train a bisexual man not to want to have sex with other men. He may repress it and be a very unhappy man that affects his mental and physical health. You can not "pray the gay away" nor the attraction to both genders. The attraction may ebb and flow though as written above. If he loves you, he won't want a man is another idea that doesn't really apply to bisexuals. He may love you and only you and still have a desire/need to have sex with a man. It is interesting that he had sex with a friend of both of you rather than a complete stranger. Have you discussed why he chose this friend to have sex with?

A lot of suggestions may be made about boundaries and rules for him to have sex with a man. Safe sex for sure. Do you want to be present? How much do you want to know about what goes on?

Another idea may be to watch bisexual or gay porn with him and discuss what he enjoys. This may be a way of learning about bisexuality and where he is on a continuum of sexuality. (Kinsey scale idea) Some find that strap ons and the woman penetrating the man satisfies him. Both may require a lot of time for you to become even comfortable with these ideas.

Good luck.

Melina

Apr 10, 2013, 11:35 PM

Yeah...I didn't really see it making a difference...yeah, I was wrong.

The bad thing is that he's tried discussing the 'sharing' with me and it's ended up with me calling him a cheating bastard. I at one point was actually going to say ok...but somehow my family ended up finding out (no, they don't he's bi, and with them not knowing...nor him wanting me to say anything, that came across in many wrong ways)...they basically all ended up on the 'you're a naive fool' and 'don't expect us to help you when your relationship with him falls apart because of it'.

I don't know what I find most scary...I guess I just don't like the 'sharing' him idea at all. Around where I live...you're either monogamous or you're relationship falls apart...there isn't a middle ground. And I guess with me living around here all my life...that may actually be how I feel and I'm just trying to deny it.

It actually surprised me when he did decide to discuss his attraction to other men. By what little we have discussed it...it seems to be a mix of wanting the sex with the guy and wanting to be overpowered.

When that was mentioned about 'training'...by the way it was explained to me...was a way to train him not to want someone else...but that I'd need to be able to overpower him which I cannot do. At the same time, I don't really think it'd do much besides him repressing it either...and I don't really want to be the cause of that kind of damage to his health.

I wouldn't try to 'pray the gay away' or this case 'the attraction to both genders'. For some reason, when that was said (the 'if he loves you...' part) to me...it kinda pissed me off for some reason. In a weird way, the guy who said that to me knows my boyfriend's psychological state...but his belief system is kinda fucked up when speaking of bisexuals.

Note, the guy he slept with was a friend of his...not mine. When we first met, his first words to me were 'So, you're Chris' little slut'. I tolerated the guy due to him being a friend of my boyfriend. And ever sense they slept together, there's been even more animosity between me and his friend. And I know why, for two reasons: 1. Because they'd been in kind of a relationship when my boyfriend was still with his ex. 2. Because my boyfriend is fucking terrified & paranoid about STD/I's...even when going the 'safe' route.

He's actually asked if that was my problem...if it was that I wanted to watch, he wouldn't care. No thank you! But yeah, if I ever do seriously consider that one...there would definitely have to be boundaries and rules. I'm not real sure how much I'd want to know about what was happening.

I don't actually like porn in general...but we did actually try that at one point...I think I made it through about 20 minutes of it.

He's actually wanted me try the strap on idea before...and that's just not something I can ever bring myself to actually do. We may be a tad kinky but I'm not THAT kinky.

Melina

Apr 10, 2013, 11:39 PM

*And I know why he decided on a friend instead of a stranger, for two reasons:

tenni

Apr 11, 2013, 12:00 AM

Hi Melina
I can read that it seems that some people living in your area are giving you rather negative information.(the guy) and it is good that you are able to see that his perspective may be a little off. I feel sorry for you having to put up the your b/f "friend"'s attitude. It sounds like the friend has some control issues and possibly possessive of your b/f. Do you think that the friend has an emotional attachment to your bf?

If you find porn of no interest that is who you are and don't force yourself. Take your time and maybe later you can look at it as research to understand his ideas but again don't force yourself. The same with the strap on. You seem fairly young and this must be a difficult challenge for you. His desire to be overpowered and submissive may be something to chat about. Does he only want that with men or you too? I think that you may have a lot to discuss with him. It won't happen in just one conversation.

Do you find this "friend" a road block? I don't like how the guy has talked to you and his influence on your bf may be something to think about. Again, good luck to you. It does seem like an awkward situation.

Melina

Apr 11, 2013, 12:23 AM

Do I think that the 'friend' has an emotional attachment to my boyfriend? Ohhhhh yeah! The guy has tried to hurt me on more then one occasion...I seriously hope he never shows up with my boyfriend isn't around or...

Yeah, I am 'fairly young'...my boyfriend is a few years older then I am. Once the revolving door started, yeah...it's been getting more and more difficult.

The submissiveness, I've gotten kinda used too...but I'm not strong enough to be able to overpower him...I've tried before. In hind sight, it was stupid to try to begin with, he actually ended up getting mad at me because I couldn't. So I guess he wants me too but I don't have the physical capability to do so. Yeah, we do have A LOT to discuss but I wouldn't have a clue where to start.

Do I find the 'friend' a road block? Yeah, but I'm also kind of scared of him. He does seem to have some kind of influence on my boyfriend but not as much as his brother does (now, that's a fucked up situation).

Thanks for the luck!

elian

Apr 11, 2013, 1:22 AM

I am a bisexual man and the only reason I am here is BECAUSE God loved me..I was not a mistake and neither is your boyfriend. All of us are a part of creation that is worthy of love and respect.

You can choose who you have sex with, it's a lot harder to "choose" not to fall in love with someone. There is no "overpower him" as in physical restraint. If this relationship makes you that unhappy to the point where that is what you believe you must do then it is time to leave. Otherwise get your information or your moral compass from somewhere else besides your current source of information. Usually I try to offer encouragement for couples to stay together if there seems to be some sort of progress but it sounds as though the both of you are on different wavelengths entirely, or you feel extreme external pressure that everything must be one way or the other.

The most modern studies have shown that being gay or bi is a combination of both genetic and environmental factors. Genetic means that at least part of the behavior is innate, inborn behavior so what your friends or family are asking you to do is to restrain him physically, mentally or spiritually so that they can "correct" a behavior he was born with. What does it feel like to be told that you can't do something because you are a woman?

Maybe he's just inexperienced or immature but I wouldn't count on it. You don't have to put up with him sleeping with other people if you both agree not to but if he can't or won't make that commitment then it is best to move on if that matters to you.

Wouldn't you much rather find someone else, rather than restrain someone against their will? OR maybe you love this man enough to try to give it a shot with him the way it is - but do not expect that YOU are going to change him. Even if he loves you and wishes he could change it may not be possible. "Ex-Gay" therapy usually ends up doing more harm than if the person would have just admitted their feelings in the first place and accepted themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBR0dq0XXk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9woWAs2i5Ps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeLDsBPSzYg

http://www.soulforce.org/resources/four-step-journey-into-soulforce/
http://www.soulforce.org/resources/what-the-bible-says-and-doesnt-say-about-homosexuality/

http://www.bisexual.com/forum/entry.php?336-Jesus-will-come-to-judge-the-righteous-and-the-wicked

I hope for both of your sake I am really wrong on this one, I hope that no matter what happens you can continue to be friends but not everyone is cut out to be lovers (together).

pdumjemd

Apr 11, 2013, 1:36 AM

Совсем недавно попался на финансовое право (http://lawfinancial.ru) . Правда это всё здорово, но есть же еще вот эмбиент (http://discussmusic.ru). Вчера вечером пихнули в просторах интернета, увидел вероятность события (http://resultevent.ru). Как бы не так, но помоему это восхитительнее всего было детские праздники (http://celebans.ru). Обрадую вас фотографией своего кошака http://lolkot.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ostavil-vsyo-yey_1329718529.jpg

Melina

Apr 11, 2013, 2:56 AM

@elian=
It's weird...I remember telling my boyfriend after I found out he's bi that if somehow my family ever did find out that it wouldn't affect how I felt...but the more I think about it...the more I'm starting to wonder if that's what happened...that even though they may not know...my family has never liked him and then they find out I might actually consider THAT and then it's like either I risk my family basically disowning me (which they have done with other members of the family if they do something they consider that wrong) or just not approving of what my boyfriend wants...who knows, maybe my family will finally get what they want...

What does it feel like to be told that I can't do something because I'm a woman? Depends on what it is...there are several things that I really don't mind that being said about...and a couple that majorly piss me off when someone says that the reason I can't do something is because of that.

I don't really consider him either inexperienced or immature...hell, my family don't even think that and they don't even like him. He said he wouldn't sleep with someone else...but I can tell just by the way he's been acting, he isn't happy about it.

Funny thing is...my boyfriend want's to get me away from here (the area my family lives in) because if he's right...that's probably a lot of the problem I'm having...because sometimes I feel like I'm being forced to choose between my boyfriend and my family...and the way things are getting, I can't have both. I don't like the idea but it's starting to seem more and more like it's either try that or split. And I hate the idea of losing him because I'M to damn inexperienced at this...

pdumjemd=
HUH? Is that even English?

elian

Apr 11, 2013, 6:17 AM

Yes, it's very sad but you are being forced to choose. The universe played the same trick on me growing up..I didn't want to have to change to accept myself but I was forced to. God gave me the gift of an open mind whether I wanted it or not. I was afraid that my world was going to fall apart but what I found was that instead it actually felt like it got bigger - because I learned to feel compassion and understanding for other people and learned to consider other points of view.

I hated men growing up because of what they did to my mom growing up in abusive relationships - isn't it hilarious then that the universe said, "Ah ha, look what I can make you do?" ..I wanted the unconditional love of a male father figure SO badly that I started to believe that I was gay. Even before that in a way I've always felt "different" - the environmental circumstances just triggered all that "stuff" to happen.

So with your boyfriend i imagine it's much the same, if he loves you he might try to suppress those other feelings but he may become resentful because of it, or in the end the feelings may be too strong for him. You need to understand this and communicate up front. Much better to talk things through as best you can now, as truthfully and with love for the other person in your heart as you can; rather than get married and 10 years later find out it isn't working.

I do believe that you are a good person, you are probably BOTH good people, and even your parents probably aren't bad people but you really don't know what it is like to walk in someone else's shoes until you've walked with that person. The universe seems to be teaching you a lesson. Remember that the circumstances in our lives are not there as punishment, but rather they are put there as challenges that help us to reach our full potential. I once loved my parents so much that I hid my sexuality from them as well. It was very painful, I am thankful that at least in my case what is left of "my parents", and my God simply told me "I just want you to be happy".

A long time ago I was told to follow my heart, I may be right, I may be wrong - no one can be responsible for YOUR life except for yourself, and so it goes with all of us. Do the best you can, that's all anyone can do. People always make mistakes, it is one of the things we are good at. Right or wrong you tried, and trying is the most important part..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f07d9Ss8Va4

Melina

Apr 11, 2013, 6:47 AM

Yeah...maybe if I can figure out how to talk him about it to where it doesn't lead to me calling him a cheating bastard...we might be able to find a middle ground...not sure how likely that is...but if I can keep my mouth in check long enough...it might work...I don't know.

I can be a vindictive little bitch if I want to be. My parents really aren't bad people...they're just the type of people who never think anyone will be good enough for their daughter...but that one issue sure as hell didn't help anything. I'm normally a fast learner but this isn't something I'm learning fast...at all.

cbb83

Apr 11, 2013, 10:17 AM

tenni

Apr 11, 2013, 10:40 AM

My two cents: if you enter a relationship with the understanding that it's monogamous - it should stay that way unless both parties agree. There is nothing about being bisexual that requires someone to also be a slut or a cheater. Nothing at all. If he's not willing to commit to a relationship, dump his ass - just as you would with anyone else. Being bisexual does not excuse cheating. The mistaken belief that being bisexual means you must actively be engaging in sex with both genders is a complete falsehood. It'd be like saying that just because you're in your 50s you should take a 22 year old over so you can have both young and your long term older partner.

" “I'm so tired of the legion of sluts proclaiming that being bisexual entitles them to 3-ways and keeping men/women on the side. It's utter falsehood,...”

“In response to the OP: a lot of "bi" men are just gay men who've lived extremely closeted lives and use bisexuality as a means to procreate and/or...”

It is interesting when I checked the other recent posts of cbb83. (two other posts today) There seems to be a pattern of negative statements about bisexuals to the point of biphobia if not hatred. There is not a lot of positivity or constructive advice for anyone in cbb83's post imo.

There are not as much "musts" when it comes to sexuality as there are "what are the best/healthiest/happiest, approaches if you find yourself being attracted to both men and women". When you strip away mainstream society's morality judgements (which cbb83 has quite a few) what are the wiser ways to live as a bisexual or live with a bisexual.

Melina
Your issues seem complex. You may want to consider some professional counselling with or without your b/f. I don't think that they are going to be resolved by posters on this site.

cbb83

Apr 11, 2013, 10:46 AM

I'm fine with bisexuality, Tenni, I'm tired of adulterous sluts trying to justify their betrayals and unreasonable demands on their partners. People like that leave a string of effed up individuals behind them that have suffered unfairly because of that sort of thing. If you read a bit more carefully you'll see that I've never attacked bisexuality and almost every single message I have posted that details my opinion on these relationship issues generally has conditional statements on it that show the comment only stands when two (or more) parties in said relationships have a disagreement on monogamy, etc. I don't wanna get dragged into one of your flame wars though, so this will be my only reply to you here :P

zigzig

Apr 11, 2013, 12:53 PM

I know that for straight people it is hard to accept their partner desires to be with both. Maybe the reason why he wants to move, is because he knows the possible judgement of relatives. I know how hard it is to break the bond with relatives.

matutum

Apr 11, 2013, 1:20 PM

i've seen on here posts that justify having sex with others while being in a relationship.If its ok with ur partner then its ok. Some people on here profess to be experts on being bi, i've been bi my whole life,i'm choosey when it comes to my men,some guys don't care as long as its another man.I like young guys,always have,to cheat on your partner is a choice that u make,i tell mine if i'm interested in another guy,but usually the fantasy is lots better than the real thing.......

matutum

Apr 11, 2013, 1:26 PM

if you are a parent then u will understand what ur parents want for u.Of course they want to control ur decisions, but its up to you as to how u live ur life.Be happy and think about what you are doing and where you want to go.Don't be afraid to cut him loose,go find what u want and get it.......lifes to short to get hung up on other peoples desires for you.

elian

Apr 11, 2013, 5:32 PM

Hmm, well I'm single and it took me 30 years to realize that I was bisexual and not gay -or- straight, and another 5 years to learn to be comfortable with myself. The stereotype of bisexual simply meaning you double your chances for a date on Saturday night isn't exactly right. In reality for some people it can be a hard struggle to deal with.

If you are still interested in this man you have a lot of communicating to do, I would suggest that you frame the conversation in terms of "I" language instead of saying, "You are a cheating bastard" say, "I feel betrayed" or "I'm not feeling secure" or "I'm not sure if you love me more, less or equal to a male partner". One thing I tell ladies is at the end of the day he still comes home to you, hopefully that means he doesn't take you for granted.

One thing not good to do is to keep bringing the same subject up over and over again. Hopefully you will talk enough to reach a point where both of you have said all that there is to say about the cheating and hopefully you will both still be together at that point if it is what you both want.

He hurt you, he made a mistake, but do you keep rubbing his nose in the act itself, or do you try to understand the underlying reasons..? How much you are willing to forgive is your own prerogative. He probably shouldn't have done it, but if he knew the feeling of your family about same sex relations, or maybe he didn't want to lose you - then he had something to hide. Maybe he really didn't know about his feelings for men? Or as cbb said, maybe he's a slut - even with his sexuality, you know him better than anyone else here.

Some bisexual people are perfectly happy being monogamous, some are happy to have one partner of each sex, some really want an open relationship. Some would like their gf/wife to be involved or offer advice on a suitable third partner and some would not. Since relationships are a partnership the needs of both partners must be considered. Now that both of you know he has this type of desire - setting of realistic boundaries to the relationship that you can both live with is important.

I guess if I loved someone that much I would recognize that I want my partner to be happy. At a minimum if I had a bisexual partner I would want some say in being able to meet any third person - since my health is involved I would want to be able to judge that the third person is not promiscuous and that they have "decent" moral character. I might try it, and then decide that sort of relationship really isn't for me. It must sound funny for me to say "decent" moral character about a third partner in a sexual relationship but I guess that's a side-effect of being forced to have an open mind. There are many good, productive people in the world who are very kind and loving, yet have "fetish" desires. Simply having a third partner isn't necessarily bad in my mind, but I think deceiving another partner about the existence of one is.

We want to pretend that all of us have angel wings, indeed at times we act as angels however human nature is also geared for survival - we are capable of magnificent good, malevolent evil and everything in between.

I tried dating a couple once, it was a lot of hard work because I really wanted to be there for BOTH people - it's often hard enough to want to care for the emotional and physical needs of one person let alone two. It was a long distance relationship so maybe that burden influenced my view.

I hope that no matter what happens you can at least still be friends, good friends are hard to find.

Yeah...maybe if I can figure out how to talk him about it to where it doesn't lead to me calling him a cheating bastard...we might be able to find a middle ground...not sure how likely that is...but if I can keep my mouth in check long enough...it might work...I don't know.

I can be a vindictive little bitch if I want to be. My parents really aren't bad people...they're just the type of people who never think anyone will be good enough for their daughter...but that one issue sure as hell didn't help anything. I'm normally a fast learner but this isn't something I'm learning fast...at all.

Melina

Apr 12, 2013, 12:48 AM

@tenni=Counseling isn't a bad idea...I'll see what my boyfriend thinks of that once he wakes up.

@zigzig=That kind of goes against what he's told me though...'if you plan for every possible judgment...you'll end up doing nothing because you'll be to damned scared'. But that's also hypocritical of him when he says that because I do know a couple of things that he has does that with before. I hope it doesn't come to breaking a bond...but if it does...I'm not sure what'll happen.

@matutum=It's strange...you're post actually reminded me of something my mom told me after I'd met my boyfriend but before they ever met him...'If you really love somebody...as long as they don't try to hurt you...ignore what anybody else says about them'. Easier said then done.
&

I'm not a parent...my boyfriend is. What if what I want is my boyfriend?

@elian=

Yeah, I am. And using 'I' instead of 'you' might help in the communication.

Don't keep bringing up the same subject? Yeah...not a bad idea...never has gone to well between us when I've done that in the past.

Do I try to understand the underlying reasons? He asked me if I wanted to know them at one point and I ended up telling him that I didn't give a damn what they were. (hmm...maybe I should've let him tell me) My family doesn't really have a problem with 'same sex relations' as long as the couple stay monogamous...when that part falls apart is where they start having their issues. Maybe he didn't want to lose me? Something he's told me...multiple times. Maybe he really didn't know about his feelings for men? Doubtful since his first relationship was actually with a guy.

'realistic boundaries' isn't a bad idea. I guess the first thing we'll need to figure out beforehand is how to handle our difference of opinions so we can both live with whatever happens.

Somehow every time I'm reading the part about a 'third person' and 'decent moral character'...it's making me think of some off-shot interview.

elian

Apr 12, 2013, 5:37 AM

Trust can be hard to rebuild, I guess time will tell. Another hard lesson that I learned in life is that some words, once spoken cannot be taken back. Counselling would be a good idea if you both feel as though you need someone else to guide or mediate the conversation. The good news about this life is that although there are always consequences for our actions each new day we live is full of potential and an opportunity to go in a new direction.

You say that your husband is a parent, does that mean that you are already a family?

Whatever you decide to do I hope it works out well for all of you.

Melina

Apr 12, 2013, 5:54 AM

1. He's my boyfriend not my husband (honestly, that's my fault...I'm terrified of the thought of marriage).
2. His kids are from where he was married before...hence, they're not mine...2 of his 3 despise me. And all 3 live with their mother. (I have no kids of my own...nor do I want them)
3. I asked my boyfriend about the counseling...he laughed and said 'Great idea! You paying? That isn't something I can afford right now because between child support and my fucking medical bills...wait until it's just back to child support and the normal bills and I can...until then, no'!

elian

Apr 12, 2013, 6:13 AM

Do not worry, it will be alright. He isn't THAT different than the day you met him right? I don't mean to sound spiteful but for now it might be good that you aren't married. That's not to say that I don't have faith in what you might become or that I think either one of you isn't worthy of marriage.

I'm not trying to justify anything or rush either one of you to a decision but here are some videos about forgiveness and compassion that helped me personally..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erqJF_ppqbk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VUCK2MZty4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orxEawi9qro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLfPtLp3u3Y

Melina

Apr 12, 2013, 6:30 AM

No...he really isn't. Still can drive 20+ miles (or sometimes over 80 miles) in the wrong direction before he realizes it...and certain other aspects that I still find funny. I don't really think it's bad that we aren't either...I've actually met a few people who knew my boyfriend from before he was married before...by their statements and his own...he seemed to take on a second personality during that time...he'd prefer never developing it again. At the same time he says that it's very possible that he wouldn't with me...but I'd prefer not finding out either way.

elian

Apr 12, 2013, 6:35 AM

A second personality is bad if you still already have the first; .much better to just be yourself, whoever that is - and be loved for who you truly are. As simple as that sounds some people want to live to please everybody (or that's how they were taught growing up) and have a very hard time with it.

Melina

Apr 12, 2013, 6:39 AM

Yeah...he did still have the first. The second was more...vicious though. It was not a nice personality.

elian

Apr 13, 2013, 8:03 AM

Hopefully it's not "vicious" any more - if he is violent toward you or others as a matter of course then I hope you can help HIM to get to the root of what is causing it and that he finds healing for himself. Otherwise maybe your fears about marriage are well founded. I say, learn to love/accept yourself first, then you might stand a chance of knowing what it really means to love someone else in right relationship.

When I was a teenager I lived most of my life out of spite, I resented not being able to fit in. It took my biological father passing very suddenly for me to realize that life is too short to live motivated by anger and spite. There is so much more to life if you can believe that you really are loved, just for who you are.

One valuable lesson I did learn growing up with a string of abusive stepfathers is that YOU cannot change anyone but YOURSELF.. We can share living with others and enrich each other but no one can live your own life for you. I don't know how many times my mom thought that she might be able to change some of those men. Thankfully now that entire situation has changed for the better for everyone involved.

Melina

Apr 13, 2013, 8:38 AM

The only time where I personally have had to deal with a 'vicious' side of him is when he's drunk...and even then he's not ALWAYS that way. Honestly, that personality...in a weird way, I think was almost a defense mechanism for him...him and his ex didn't have a very good relationship (even his ex won't disagree with that) for any one long period of time...and there was A LOT to that relationship/marriage that I doubt I'll ever know about. There was actually something his dad told me at one point that nearing the end of the marriage...it seemed like he (my boyfriend) was scared of her. He's never said that again and never would explain to me what he meant so I'm not actually sure it was something he ever meant to say.

Melina

Apr 13, 2013, 8:53 AM

On a side note, when my bf got home from work last night he asked me why I thought HE needed therapy. I ended up explaining that it wasn't HE that I was referring to that morning but WE. And then he ended up asking why WE need therapy and when I told'em...his response was basically that if I wouldn't call him a cheating bastard that we could probably get a lot talked out on our own and there would be no way in hell that he'd EVER admit to a therapist that he's bi anyways. He also mentioned that if we could talk it out though that we'd have to avoid the outside influences though (more specifically, my family)...otherwise it wouldn't be much use because one 'outside influence' conversation and any progress would be shot to hell in a heartbeat.

Rob1863

Apr 13, 2013, 2:25 PM

Hi Melina, I read your thread with interest and I empathise with what you are going through. I told my wife 8 years ago that I thought I was bisexual, it knocked her off her feet. She needed to know everything, my experiences, my thoughts…we never recovered. She tolerated it for the 8 years but in the back of her mind she believed she was never good enough and when I stopped being tactile with her or not performing sexually then she would always blame me and my sexuality. Although I was monogamous throughout our marriage, I did enjoy gay porn but that was it and I would never have humiliated her by having male partners to satisfy my cravings while we were still married although she did consent to me doing that… because she loved me. After 12 years we separated to lead our separate lives where nobody gets hurt, what I am saying is that in a very tolerant relationship with the upmost discretion then a bisexual partner may work, he is rubbing your nose in it sweetheart and would be best to set him free to live the lifestyle that you can not give him xx

Melina

Apr 13, 2013, 9:50 PM

cherry88

Apr 13, 2013, 11:40 PM

Honestly, I've ended up asking him on a couple of occasions if he wanted to leave me so he could pursue his lifestyle. Both times he ended up calling me a crazy little bitch (that's one thing that YOU DO NOT CALL ME if you don't want to get hit) and ended up asking me why I'd think that's what he wanted...since I'm basically the only 'partner' he's had that's at least halfway accepting of masochistic side...even if I do have problems with his bisexual nature. He doesn't want to end the relationship with me...and the one time I tried to leave...well...what ended up happening is why he has the medical bills he does. Honestly, I was being advised before I tried that leaving would probably be best for both of us...yeah...after what happened...his neurologist started questioning my boyfriend's psychological stability...so...at this point I'm kinda hoping we can find a solution to where...we can stay together.

hey melina ive been following your thread and just felt like saying hi.

my bf of 3 yrs came out last summer as both non monogamous and (to a much lesser degree) bi. the non monogamy was the big thing and in my mind the non monagamy was much much harder to come to terms with than the bisexual part. at this time he wants to be with women not men anyway, which is also harder for me. i tend to have a lot less trust that women can handle casual sex and not try to steal him... so personally id much prefer it if he wanted to be with guys.

i see him beign with girls are fraught with problems but being with guys is something i could see happening safely and casually without changing our relationship.... funny huh.

either way it was super hard to get used to and we are still working on it.

one thing that was essential was good clear honest open transparent non violent communication.

we barely made any progress at all until we started therapy (my insurance covers it but if it didnt, i qualify for sliding scale as i am low income) and the one point i really finally felt moved to make after seeing the last thing you posted:

i am telling you it sounds to me as though your communication (both of you) is having some issues right now. maybe its more or less 'normal' in normal situations or 'normal' relatoinships..... or the kind of relatoinship where you dont normally have to deal with stuff thats difficult or stuf thats challenging... but when you are tryign to work out something like this, calling each other names (even in fun) and yelling and attacking and not listening, and doing things that give each other medical bills, is gonna put you at a huge disadvantage.. i mean that all sounds extraordinarily dysfunctional to me.

i mean maybe you could get lucky and manage to talk it through that way but somehow i think it will be much much much more difficult.

so i just wanted to say hi and tell you that what saved my relationship and improved it considerably was not just good therapy, but both of us realy being willing to put in the work, change ourselves, get uncomfortable if necessary, admit we were wrong, change destructive habits, etc. boht of us had to totally do this and he was just as willing to do it as i was. which is pretty admirable for a guy.

its been a fair amount of efffort from both of us but its really paid off and we are doing so much better now. i do not think we could have done this without the help of therapy, specifically, cleaning up our communication styles. once we cleaned up our communication styles and got on the same page EVERYTHING became easier. and our communication was originally pretty good. but it had to be excellent to get through this. to have a relatoinship like this work takes a lot of good communication. and sometimes people need some coaching to remember how to do that cause its really not something people are usually taught.

so originally i was just going to say that if you really truly want this relationship to work theres basically some basic steps i could point to, just my own personal viewpoint which others may disagree with.. whether or not you get counseling:

1) you gotta decide if you want this relationship enough to do some stuff that might be pretty uncomfortable. (like any relatoinship)

2) you gotta find out -exactly- what he wants. (and why if you are interested. i find the more i understand, the better i feel) this takes some pretty active, non judmental, non freak-out listening.

3) you gotta figure out what -you- are ok with and what you are not. this takes some introspection.

4) you gotta see if those two things match up at all and if not, you must either break up or do some negotiating. good negotiating means -non violent- cooperative communication.

5) then you gotta -keep- communicating as things change over time. (becuase they will)

6) the reason counseling is great is becuase you cant really do any of that, find out what he wants, communicate what you want, or negotiate a compromise, if you cannot communicate well. that will derail every single thing you are tryign to do.

so thats why i feel that -some- sort of attention to helping your communication skills will make all those other steps easier and smoother and les painful for both of you. lots of guys are resitstant to therapy for lots of reasons and maybe its not for you or you cant find a source for low income therapy.. however.. i am telling you this whole process will be either faciliated or derailed to a very large degree by how you guys communicate. the way you are talking about it it sounds as though you get along fairly well and have an ok relatoinship.... but you both sound a bit hot headed and kind of like you fly off the handle, kind of like you are not great listeners, and like maybe you dont put a lot of thought into stuff you say or do. thats not wrong, but i think tis gonna put you at a severe disadvantage in this relationship.

the one super great thing is that HE TALKED TO YOU. yeah he slipped up a bit but HE IS TALKING TO YOU. he talked to you first and he asked what you thought. that is really really really good. it shows he trust you and want to bring you into his world. if you want to be with him, accept the invitation!

so i just want to wish you luck and stuff and tell you that it sounds like he really cares about you, (though personally i think you are 100% right to hold off on marriage) and that he is opening up to you and trying to bring you into his thoughts. thats a really good thing so now my recommendation is, APPRECIATE THAT. and then see if you can figure out how to work on your communication.. if you cannot get into therapy maybe you could find some other way but personally, i recommend some therapy. if you get a good counselor they will not be judgmental and they will certainly not release personal info about either of you. so thers nothing to fear from being honest in counseling. it can really only help it seems to me. and its worth the money if it makes the difference between you guys breaking up... maybe he hasnt looked at it that way yet.

anyway thinking about you :>> hope stuf goes well one way or the other. its been almost a year for us and weve come a long long way. we couldnt have done it without really, really paying attention to our communication styles and for me i am really, really thankful we put the effort into getting some professional help, im sure it saved our relationship.

take care! hope stuff is lots better a year from now.

Melina

Apr 14, 2013, 12:57 AM

elian

Apr 14, 2013, 8:06 AM

Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even therapists but the newest version of the their diagnostic manual no longer labels same sex desire as a disease, so that is a step in the right direction. What I'm trying to say is that the therapist should treat him with professionalism and keep his sessions confidential. I guess it can be scary to admit all of this stuff but if he doesn't get it out and start talking about it he's not going to get better. There's probably more than just the "sex" that is motivating him too. If insurance will cover him going alone then he should go alone..it's better than not going at all.

I am talking about his needs mostly because I just don't know yours. It sounds as though people have yelled at him a lot throughout his life - because you say he is willing to listen as long as you aren't nagging. Find a way to express what you want without making him feel two feel tall?

The part where you keep talking about medical bills being the result of some sort of altercation concerns me, mainly because I grew up in an abusive household. You can try to help him if you want to but I hope you're not staying there because you are afraid to leave..likewise for him, and I mean no offense by this but just because you are the less abusive of two (?) women he's ever had an adult relationship with in his life doesn't mean that you are "the one". It means that you are a friend who cares deeply about him and wants to try to understand. It means that he desperately needs someone who believes him and he's afraid of f'king up.

If you kick a dog enough times sometimes it will cringe before you even touch it. No one should have to live their life that way - not you, not him - but a lot of people do.

All of us have to struggle in one way or another, otherwise there would be no reason to change. I hope that each of you find peace and happiness in your lives.

Melina

Apr 14, 2013, 8:51 AM

I'll see what he think about going after I get off the computer for the day.

I don't really think there was anything wrong...between him and his parents...but any 'relationship' he's been in...yeah, yelling is common. And I'll have to find a way to do that talk to him without doing that.

Yeah...it's only two women (his other two relationships were with men). I'm not scared to leave because I'm afraid of him...seriously, the only time he has ever really scared me is when he's drunk (and he isn't always mean then) and my solution to that is locking him in a room until he sobers up...if he wanted to hurt me though...he could've by now. At one point, he was scared of me but he either got over that or just won't vocalize it anymore...I don't really know. I hope he's not still scared of me over that...if he was though, I could understand why...I should've never done that...

'You're the less abusive between her and you? No you're not...you're just more tolerable then she was'. (the part is quotation marks is what my boyfriend said to me while I was writing my response to your comment elian)

bi4asplay

Apr 14, 2013, 8:54 AM

I agree with every thing tenni said. I am sure from what you have said that he is wanting the cock and not the man. What I see in the future though if you can not be a part of his longings, is not so good.If you could bring yourself to do the strap on thing it could/might not save the relationship.I have found the it is hard to hold on to feelings for someone that will not let you be who you are. If you take sombody as a mate, you have to take all of that person or none of them. It sounds as though if you demand the he remain monogamous the relationship very well may fall apart. If you can bring yourself to share it with him it may be the glue that holds the two of you together.Good luck to you.

Melina

Apr 14, 2013, 9:01 AM

Not to sound antagonistic...but to be perfectly honestly, I'd be more likely to give my ok on him sleeping with another person (more spefically ONE guy) then I would be to try that. So in a simple sense...strap on...not happening.

elian

Apr 14, 2013, 6:43 PM

'You're the less abusive between her and you? No you're not...you're just more tolerable then she was'. (the part is quotation marks is what my boyfriend said to me while I was writing my response to your comment elian)

I don't mean to sound daft or condescending but love is a choice, it is voluntary, the goal should be that neither one of you feels like you have to be abused or dependent on each other just to be in a relationship.

As much as marketers would have you believe otherwise, happiness isn't something that you can literally possess, it is an internal byproduct of what you decide to do with the tools, talents and resources you've been given.

I have a long distance partner that I met here. By being together we have helped each other to grow. We do have feelings of love for each other but neither one of us owns the other, we are not property. As a matter of fact he has a wife, I've met her and spent time with her as a friend - she is a wonderful person - but if I ever knew I was the reason they had problems in their relationship I would sooner leave than cause them to break up.

Trying to hold on to love is like trying to save rays of sunshine in a box for a rainy day, it just doesn't work that way. Don't be afraid of losing love, as long as we can remember to treat each other with grace, compassion and respect there is always more - at times you may feel lonely but you are never really alone.

Love for me is sort of like water overflowing a bucket or someone passing a candle flame. Just by being close to me, sending a card or saying a positive word people touch my soul with kind energy and I feel love Sometimes I feel it strongly enough that it sort of overflows, I want to pass that on to someone else... Good things motivate good things - sometimes we can all use a little encouragement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl0q8f8nC8Q

Melina

Apr 14, 2013, 11:56 PM

'And you wonder why I don't like talking to people about how I feel...I know my mind's fucked up and yet every time I've tried explaining it to anyone...they either say I'm crazy or that I like being abused. Technically, I have been to a therapist before...and they've even said that shit. Why can't anyone understand that's just how I function'?

You haven't been to a therapist since we met.

'No...I went when I was still with my ex...the therapist broke my confidentiality then...I'm not trusting another one'.

.....

cherry88

Apr 15, 2013, 1:55 AM

Therapy in a way would be good...but I think it would require my boyfriend admitting to the therapist that he's bi...and he's already vocalized his objection to me about having to do that. On two other notes, currently I don't have insurance and second...his insurance doesn't cover that...it would cover therapy for him but not couples therapy.

hmmmm well i just saw what you wrote about the therapy conversation... thats really a tough one. sounds to me like he didnt have a very good therapist.. they are not supposed to judge and not supposed to be prejudiced at all... and i think its illegal to betray confidentiality for sure. but i live in a pretty progressive area and there is nothign that would suprrise a therapist here.

they are not supposed to put value judgments on people and it sounds like your bf will need someone who can handle that without putting their own judgmetn on it. in your area, that maybe tough to find. i can -really- understand why he would be turned off to it after feeling judged so all i can say is, i would only recommend one who will be professoinal, if they are professional they will not act that way. not all therapists are the same and not all are good.

also my insurance technically doesnt really cover couples therapy but if i am in therapy individually, they will cover couples sessions.... so that is how we are doing it to fit with insurance, i go by myself one week and then we go togehter the next week. that might work for you guys but like i said seems he had a bad experience and im super sorry for that. :<<

What do you consider 'destructive behavior'? Because some people consider my boyfriend's masochistic side as 'destructive behavior' but that's not really something I see him actually being able to change.

ok perseonally i dont consider masochistic stuff or any of that destructive.. and his therapist shouldnt either.. its another thing consenting adults are into and it can be healthy or not like anything depending on the person. i meant more like the communication style like you said yelling, a bit of name calling maybe even some physical stuf at times.... i jsut think that makes it harder to communicate effectively thats all.. im so sorry what happened with his previous therapist. really thats a huge bummer and really shouldnt have happened and im really sorry.

1. I do want the relationship enough...it just confuses the hell outta me sometimes.

oh boy do i hear that. i have never in my life been so confused as this past year.

2. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out exactly what he wants...if I can keep from calling him what I have been...he'd actually be able to finish the statement for once...yeah, he's tried telling me before.

3. I'll have to let him finish that statement before I can even figure out what I'm okay with.

haha - bingo! the first couple months tryign to talk this through were a disaster for me. ours came up similary to yours.. with a bit of unplanned infidelity.. and i was LIVID. i was really really really mad and not capable of being very rational right then. (cause i was super hurt) its still sometimes hard for me to listen... im really afraid the stuff he will say will hurt me.... but im a LOT beter than i was.. poor guy. and he is better too about beign more understanding of me. we came at this from massively different points of view and he was very suprrised something he saw as totally normal caused such a reaction... that was somethign we had to understand about each other. it also took awhile for him to learn to respect that i saw things very differently and that was ok. we are not all the same.

I'm more hot-headed then he is...compared to me he's actually a lot calmer and more in control of things then I am...and I'm not really a good listener but as long as I don't start in on him for something or another...he can be an excellent listener...even though if I talk to him to long he falls asleep which in a weird way I find humorous. No, I really don't put much thought into stuff I say...I'm more of the type to say something before I even really think about it. My boyfriend doesn't always either but he's had enough experiences in his life to know he has to or else it could come back to bite him (maybe I could learn from him...).

yeah seriously thats a good thing to start working on. you really cant take some stuff back and it can cause so much damage before you know it. its very destructive. both being a better listener, and being a better commmunicator, those are totally skills which can be learned. its so simple but it can improve your life soooooo much. you can also just get some books aobut it or read about it online too.

In a way, I'm glad he talked to me about it. In another way, what it was pissed me off. But yeah...if we can get things worked out in our communication...I'll end up with a whole new insight into 'his world'. Thanks for the luck!

totally hear that like i said, it came up for us kinda similarly, which automaticlaly made the conversation fifty billion times harder. he had no idea that would happen, but it did. and it sucked. it almost broke us up big time. so what i appreciate is that he -did- talk to me.... he was only with someone else one time, and then he talked to me. i just cant stand the idea of infidelity and cheating and honestly, i feel soooo sorry for anyone who feels they have no choice in a relationship but cheat. i see that a lot here, and i think it sucks. so i am very appreciative that yeah he manned up and talked to me, even though it was a little late. he could have totally just kept on cheating and never said anything, and if that happened i mgiht have actually gone ahead and killed him. (Just kidding) (Not really) and also, we would never have had the chance to actualy have a better relatoinship. which we have totally had through biting the bullet and being honest.

knowing him better has improved our relationship in pretty much every way. i loved him for who he is and so i pretty much only love him more the more i know him better. its hard for my competitive side to deal with non monogamy in any form, however, i am very very glad to know the real him much more its improved our relationship in -many- many ways. im soooo thankful he had the integrity and guts to talk with me, even though its been so hard for us both. especially when i see how many guys -dont- do that.

so yeah i give your bf lots of points for that.

Hmm...maybe his neurosurgeon/neurologist (whatever the fuck that guy wants to be called) will know of somebody...and I know my boyfriend trusts the guy enough to where he might have better luck at convincing him to go to therapy then I would...since I'm sure he could explain certain things about the idea of therapy then I can.

yeah it sounds like your bf had a really, really sucky therapist before and that really sucks.... it may be that the neurologist guy can help. both to convince him that good therapists wont do that, or also to recommend someone who is a good fit for your bf. it kind of sounds as though he is pretty against going, and i can undertsand why.. especially cuase hes got sensitive stuff he doesnt want to feel judged about. (which i totally get) so i dont know maybe talking with the neurologist is a good idea. just if you do talk about it more with your bf be sure to tell him that his bisexuality and masochistic side all that is -totally- his own business, he actually -doesnt- need to reveal that in order to just learn better communciation techniques....... but it would be a lot better if he could just find someone who would be able to not be judgmental. how did the therapist break confidentiality? i dont think that is legal. in the meantime like i said you can totally read about it, theres tons of books and stuf online about communication styles.. at least thats better than nothing.

anyhow good luck...

been nice talking with you. let us know what happens ok. oh also strap-on!! hahahahaa....... i was never so happy the day i found out my bf is into strap ons. haha........ is there a reason you are not into that. i was so glad my bf was. stil haven exactly tried it but thats gonna be my birthday present. haha...

@@ well keep us posted. good luck.

Melina

Apr 15, 2013, 3:08 AM

Oh betraying confidentiality without consent is illegal...and that's half his problem with even trying another therapist...he doesn't want that happening again especially around here.

The bad part of it...is that he was in Florida when that happened...even though where he lives now is an entirely different state (here in Kentucky)...he still doesn't want that happening again.

More like the communication style type of destructive behavior, okay.

There are some things I've said to him that seemed to bother him so much more then any real action I could EVER even try to do against him so yeah...

I give'em points for that too...it's just until we find a middle ground...our relationship probably won't change much from the arguing...

Of course, if the neurologist actually can help...it would certainly be good (if only I could get in contact with him...grr). How did the therapist break confidentiality? I don't know...I asked my boyfriend and he said he should not have said that...since he's under orders not to mention it at all. (not sure from who or for what reason)

Thanks for the luck!

I will...keep ya posted. And I don't really know why I'm not...I just really don't like them.

elian

Apr 15, 2013, 6:09 AM

I know that no one likes to have their entire life dissected and judged. There are certain people who sense weakness in others and they will exploit it just to make themselves feel better. Some of the things I am saying might bring up bad feelings but ultimately I don't really want to hurt either of you. I am trying to speak out of love because I know what it is like to be stuck in a pattern of self-loathing, fear, anger, depression, etc.

My childhood (at least in the eyes of a child) felt like walking through hell on Earth, the only thing that was strong enough to "save" me was love - I was too afraid to tell anyone what I was feeling. Despite how much people screamed in my face that I was a worthless pussy, and how many Bible verses and other "proof" they drug out in front of me I knew that God loved me, and good friends accepted me, cared for me encouraged me to keep going on. My boyfriend helped teach me to trust men again.

Now that I am adult I recognize that both of my parents were very young, they did love me and did the best they could do.. it is what it is, can't change the past - and thankfully through a lifetime of hard work things have changed mostly for the better for everyone involved.

I used to hate myself for loving men, and even 15 years after the fact all of the men in my life who told me I would never be successful were still haunting me after they were long gone. This book is kind of simple, but it helped give me the training wheels I needed to break a cycle of self-loathing that I was stuck in:

http://www.amazon.com/Lovingkindness-Revolutionary-Happiness-Shambhala-Classics/dp/157062903X

I'm certainly not a professional therapist but I've been through some of the issues, if I can go from feeling abused mentally and sexually to loving people again, anyone can. It does take courage (to keep an open mind), patience (because you WILL face trials), love (for yourself and others) and determination.

It's never easy, and I honestly don't know that I'll ever be "right" in the eyes of society, but maybe it's not really up to society to define my happiness and worth anyway. Those are the sort of things you find for yourself as the result of your own work and actions. It is nice if every once in a while the universe and others give you a smile and some encouragement to let you know you're going in the right direction.

Melina

Apr 15, 2013, 6:52 AM

cherry88

Apr 15, 2013, 5:08 PM

'Can someone tell me where in there it says that those desires are wrong? I got told that when I was 17 and spent the next week and a half trying to find that...either I was reading the wrong version or it was from a rewrite that can condemn anything that someone sees damn well fit to condemn...because I never found it. I've looked for it since then too...still haven't found it'.

Did you sleep in that week and a half?

'No'.

...

'And as long as we're considered different...we'll never be right in the eyes of society'. (That statement I'll agree with)

just want to agree with elian here real quick. that this kind of stuff -can- be gotten over. i was mentally and physically severely abused as a child as well. i was also abused by the mental health system as my parents put me in a mental hospital for a year when i was 17.

this was because i ran away from home cause i got tired of being beat up and called an ugly worthless stupid whore and all the other stuff they called me all the time.

so honestly i mean i spent my entire 17th year in a mental hospital. peopel were telling me i was crazy that entier time. if i disagreed i was locked in seclusion sometimes for days. i still remember one time being tied to a table in seclusion naked for several days. there were bright lights on me all the time and cameras watched my every move. i was on my period at the time and they gave me nothing to stop the bleeding at all. i was completely naked, tied to a table. at 17. it was like the most humiliating thing ive ever been through. all because i had tried to stand up for myself and get away from horrible abuse. noone believed me about the abuse becuase my fahter was chief of staff of the hospital.

at that point i remember giving up on human nature. i remember deciding that all humans were evil.

i still dont like humans very much but i never gave up on myself. or love. or truth. and gradually i have come to believe in people again thought ill never forget what they are capable of.

i was really really sick when i finally got out of there, and had to live on the streets cuase my parents disowned me...... after not finishing high school. and spending a year in a mental hospital.

so i mean, thats a pretty bad start with trusting other people, and being able to love, and being able to trust, and being pretty badly judged for being who i am. it took years to get over that.

but i mean.. if a person like me can give the mental health system a second chance... i mean.. really anyone can.

sounds like he maybe had somewhat of a similar experience as a teenager in terms of feeling judged. (and later on too) im just tryign to offer a bit of encouragement cause i know how that stuff feels. still and all ive found therapists and psychiatrists who are good people and who later helped me very very very much. still he might just not be ready for that and whatever, but either way, i really understand not trusting society and all that as a 'different' person and its really pretty sensible. just wanted to say that there are alternatives and not everyone is like that. its healthy to not trust people cause peopel suck. but soemtimes its healthy to take a risk and trust.

elian

Apr 15, 2013, 7:34 PM

Melina, if you boyfriend still believes what he was told, he needs to watch "For the Bible Tells Me So" ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgeEabaZnqw

There is one thing I disagree with in this movie. It isn't that men hate women, I think it's more that they don't want anyone to question the power they have in society... If you have a man who doesn't play by the rules of society that is a threat...they think it is a sickness. I disagree. I think that there are a lot of hurting people in the world - is it so wrong that I am able to love someone regardless of what is between their legs?

Ever since I was born all I've ever really wanted to do is love - it never seemed to matter that much to me whether the person was female or male, at least until all of the people I looked up to told me it was wrong. Even for straight guys (or women), I think we seek out people who are "like us" when we are hurt or in pain..

A few other countries and cultures have dealt with gender and sexual identity a lot better than we have.

Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong, the weak can never forgive. I guess your boyfriend is saying, "What is there to forgive?" Well probably a lot of things, but I agree that you shouldn't have to apologize for the way you were born. That's not to say that you exist in a vacuum and your actions have no effect or consequences on yourself and others.

I will tell you, that in the last five years many of my Christian "friends" who personally know LGBT people have started the long road to finally understanding that the people they doubt and condemn are human, just like them...a few of them are even starting to understand that you can't choose who you fall in love with. LGBT people are worthy of love and respect just the same as any other part of creation.

My heart goes out to ALL people who struggle with self-esteem issues - whether they are gay, straight, bi, trans or whatever.. You can have the worst day, the worst week, the worst month or year, but no matter what you must always remember that you are loved.

Melina

Apr 16, 2013, 1:59 AM

He's told me he doesn't technically believe that anymore (even though he has tried finding it...even recently...so he may not completely NOT believe it anymore)...because he's asked several people and the only people that say that those feelings are wrong (even in the church community) seem be a tad homophobic and biphobic...or they have a strong belief in the ideal of the 'traditional family'.

Yeah, there are a few other countries that have dealt with that a lot better then we have. Since my boyfriend grew up in Canada though...I am kind of curious if that's one of the few and he just had some bad run-ins or if they're like us in that regard. (That's not something my boyfriend actually knows...whether they're like us or not)

Me and my boyfriend both fall under Christian as our religion but obviously there are things in their teachings that neither of us agree with...even though I think one of the worst mistakes we made was convincing a gay friend of ours to go with us to church with us...why the preacher had to discuss the reasons homosexuality is WRONG that day...I do not know. Obviously the friend didn't stay for the whole thing considering he didn't want to hear his feelings being condemned AGAIN. And I noticed it was even making my boyfriend uncomfortable...because the way they were going about condemning it was by saying 'a man laying with another man'...so I guess it wasn't just the homosexual society they were condemning but the bisexual as well. We only went back a couple of times after that. I know the last time we went my boyfriend ended up telling the preacher something but my boyfriend's never told me what he said.

Melina

Apr 16, 2013, 2:04 AM

And to keep you posted on what's happened in regards to well...us:

I ran a little test of mine earlier (what would technically be) yesterday evening and more then anything...it confused the hell out of my boyfriend. I ended up calling the friend of my boyfriend...and convinced him that my boyfriend wanted to talk to him...of course, when he got here I ended up having to explain before he came in that I was the one who wanted to discuss something with him. So...me, my boyfriend, and the friend ended up talking for a little bit. The friend eventually got fed up with it and I told my boyfriend what I'd been planning since I'd called the friend...and my boyfriend said that I was either fucking crazy or that I'd gotten into his Grey Goose. More or less, I didn't tell him what I was planning, I just told him to do it. What I had told him was to kiss the friend. When he did do it, it surprised said friend and he ended up putting my boyfriend in an armbar (apparently, he REALLY doesn't like being surprised)...of course when my boyfriend started saying 'Okay, okay, I give! I give'! He let go and they both started laughing (and yet I'm the one who he called crazy). Of course, after they got done laughing they kissed again...the test of mine was to see how I'd feel about even something like that...it didn't really bother me, in fact...I actually found it somewhat humorous...and since even they've said they can't really do anything together...I'm not really concerned. Where things backfired on me though...was because neither of them had stood back up from where my boyfriend had been put in an armbar...and since the sliding door to the kitchen was open and from the front door (I still call it the back door though) you could see where they were sitting. How would I know that? Because my damn parents ended up showing up...the first thing my boyfriend said was 'Oh shit'! and the friend ended up describing the woman (my mom) to me and I ended up saying the same thing my boyfriend had (and where I was...I couldn't see the front door...I was actually sitting on the back of the couch). I told the friend who they were and he said 'Oh, this is just perfect'. I could hear the sarcasm though. So I ended up letting my parents in (I knew things were about to implode no matter who opened that door) and then went back to where my boyfriend was still sitting...the friend had stood back up. You can figure out...that THAT did not go well. And where things fell apart was me getting slapped by my mom and being called a little slut and my dad gave me an option, I was either going home with them or they'd tell everyone they met in that area that my boyfriend was bi which would destroy his business and then get in touch with his ex and make sure he lost his kids entirely. That entire statement bothered my boyfriend A LOT more then it did me...and he ended up telling them that they weren't taking me away from him and that telling people he was bi wouldn't affect his business...most people who have anything to do with him think he's gay...so telling them he's bi wouldn't change much...but that'd he'd be damned if he let them assist in the loss of his children. And then the friend added that if they even tried to take him (my boyfriend) down that he'd make sure that they lost so much more then they were trying to take. Honestly, the statement concerned me...but I'd already figured out...I was staying exactly where I was and that my parents would either get over what they'd seen or they wouldn't. So yeah, my test answered the question I'd set for myself but it certainly didn't help in regards to my family.

elian

Apr 16, 2013, 5:31 AM

Geesh, you guys don't do anything easy do you? It would seem that you all have enough energy and intention behind your thoughts that the universe was more than happy to oblige. At least you have a few of your answers. If it is not 100% clear that your intentions were to see how you felt about the two of them being together than I would start talking, and quick - so that they understand very plainly what you were trying to do.

As for your parents, I hope that you are all self-sufficient and mature - in that case your parents are going to have to learn that you really are adults now that can make your own decisions - whether they like it or not. They were probably in a bit of shock and needing to figure out things for themselves as well. Your parents are accusing you of being immoral - none of you should prove them right by acting out of hatred, anger or fear.

I will tell you that if no one is very sure of what they want you really may end up getting hurt, understand that and be prepared for it - but hopefully it doesn't really happen.

I'm a little concerned for your friend's children in the event that he is attached to a spouse that doesn't already know he likes guys..

As for your previous post, what a better catalyst for you to see what those words and attitudes do to people, than to see one of your friends be so uncomfortable that he walks out. Maybe you understand better than your parents that a person would not risk their life, career, family, personal property, reputation and respect in the community just to "choose" to be LGBT. When I was much younger I used to beg God, "Why did you make me this way." The short answer is, "I had to so you would understand". God gave me the (painful) gift of being forced to have an open mind.

I had a similar experience at a "Crystal Cathedral" megachurch up over the hill here once. It was a beautiful building, big coffee cafe, closed circuit TV, choir rehearsal room, recording studio - the pastor was relating a story about Christians being persecuted in Iran, which I felt sympathetic for because I believe in religious freedom but then he had to say the word "Mus-lum" a few times with a negative connotation...never really coming all the way out with it, but implying that they were a lower class of people. As far as I could tell both Christians and Muslims worship the same God and Jesus loved ALL people..but hey, maybe that's just me.

Sometimes when I go to fundamentalist type places I can't tell if I am at a church service or a political rally. I was invited back for a "religious diversity" class, beautiful classroom, video projectors, all sorts of stuff. They did talk about what other people believe, but every 10 minutes they had to stop and say, "..and this is why we disagree with that..." - as if they couldn't let people make up their own minds. I have been to a few different churches, and I have always felt some sort of "spiritual" connection or energy in the place but it was really odd because it was the first time that I felt no spiritual connection at all there. It is more like theatre than church.

"Bringing people to Christ", mission trips and the like are NOT all that it means to be a Christian but this is all I heard at that church. Everything was about growing the church, and not about the lessons that Jesus taught while he was ALIVE. It's like - "OK, so I accept Jesus" - now what? ...and to me, there wasn't an authentic answer to that question - at least not at that place, at that time.. Maybe it's the people more than the space that make a difference.

It's funny, once upon a time the Christians used to be the heretics, now THEY are the ones with the Crystal Cathedral.. I should say that I actually know many Christians that I respect and admire - they are the quiet ones who simply try to live their lives by the example that Jesus taught. There seem to exist a whole 'other breed who go around making as much noise as possible - very loudly telling themselves the same thing over and over again as if they really don't believe it.

Your parents need to see the movie..it is about parents of very religious people who were forced to come to terms with the fact that their children were gay or lesbian.. They may never believe it, but they need to see it anyway. Not trying to justify anything or change anything, it is simply the life experience of those people.

elian

Apr 16, 2013, 6:26 AM

I can't tell you what will ultimately happen, it remains to be seen, my concern is simply to spread the understanding that life is a lot more complex than black and white, and that people deserve to be treated with love, respect and compassion.

Melina

Apr 16, 2013, 6:27 AM

I gave up on having an 'easy' relationship with him when my boyfriend started having me yell at his ex because he'd get tired of yelling at her. (Half the time I didn't even know what I was yelling at her for...thank God that stopped) I explained to my boyfriend why I did that after the friend left. I'll wait until later today to explain to the friend.

Mature, pretty much...self-sufficient, questionable. Shock? That would make sense.

My boyfriend knows what he wants...and I'm trying to run some pre-test...tests to see what all I am okay with.

Um...my boyfriend is the only one of the three of us (me, him, and his friend) who has kids...and it's questionable as to whether his ex knows that he's bi or not. I just hope his kids don't get caught in the crossfire of all this...because if they do...it'll tear him apart from the inside out and there won't be a damn thing I'll be able to do to stop it.

I think they understand it...just as well as I do...but if they really do want to hurt my boyfriend...they'd use it against him.

I remember that friend telling me and my boyfriend the day after he'd walked out of the church 'There's a difference between a belief in God and the bullshit that goes on in a church. Because what they are saying is that we're mistakes. They're saying that basically Chris (my boyfriend) and I are mistakes. But they say God doesn't make mistakes...if that's true, then how can we be mistakes? God made us this way on purpose...we're not mistakes and I'll be damned if I listen to someone say that the way I am, my feelings, my life is a mistake'!

My boyfriend ended up responded by asking how many times he got the shit beat out of him before he started believing that. Our friend found a sudden interest in the shoes he was wearing and didn't respond to my boyfriend's question.

Yeah, we used to be heretics and now we're a religion of hypocrites.

Technically, I'm the youngest of 5 kids (even though I'm the only child of my dad AND mom)...one of my brothers is gay...with everything I heard my dad say about HIS son (the brother I was referring too) when I was growing up...I don't see a movie changing his opinion...not sure about my mom though (I'm her only kid).

elian

Apr 16, 2013, 6:37 AM

Well, if your boyfriend's children already think he is gay, then being bi shouldn't be too hard of a change for them.

I will speak the truth as I see it but my intention is not to maliciously hurt Christian or straight people.

I honestly believe that you don't know what it is really like until you walk in someone else's shoes.. The only way bigotry and prejudice change is the through personal relationships. They may not accept your way of life but at least maybe they can accept that you are a part of creation.

http://www.bisexual.com/forum/entry.php?336-Jesus-will-come-to-judge-the-righteous-and-the-wicked

Of course I could be all wrong and destined for hell, I guess God and I will figure that all out when I get there. Until then I can't see the sense in teenagers taking their own lives because people tell them they are better off dead and they feel they have no where else to turn. Sorry if that feels "morally loose" to some people but I am so glad that attitude is starting to change.

Melina

Apr 16, 2013, 6:47 AM

They have had issues at school where other kids will call their father (my boyfriend) either a gay bastard or a bi slut (yeah, kids not even in 5th grade saying that...it's kind of a scary thought)...but they don't believe it. As my boyfriend's said...if they'd ask him, he'd tell them he's bi but they won't even ask him if he is or not.

As my boyfriend said...first we need to get our own heads on straight before we even try talking to them...otherwise things will get said and we won't be back at Start...we'll be completely off the board. (yeah, that's what he gets for playing a six hour game of Monopoly online...he starts talking like that)

Yeah...sometimes I wonder if personal views actually have any place when you're part of a religion...other times...eh.

elian

Apr 16, 2013, 7:06 AM

Kids will say anything as long as the uncomfortable attention of other people's scrutiny is not directed toward them. Half the time they don't even know what they are saying .. I once got slapped in the face pretty hard for doing exactly that - in school kept repeating an accusation about someone to their face just because I heard someone else repeat it. Learned my lesson then..people really do have feelings.

Melina

Apr 16, 2013, 7:15 AM

My boyfriend's son has gotten suspended from school on a couple of occasions because he beat the heck out of another kid for calling his dad gay...I think that's a lot of the reason my boyfriend would tell them...that way they'd quit getting into fights with other kids over it.

elian

Apr 16, 2013, 9:31 AM

If he can be the father that he wants to be then it makes sense to tell them - that way they know what a real bisexual person is like.. If they find out about it on their own and all they have to go on are stereotypes that other people tell them, then it may do more harm..

Melina

Apr 16, 2013, 10:49 PM

The main problem is due to the custody that's shared between my boyfriend and his ex...I mean he only gets to see the kids on the weekends and here in the last 4 months...it's been one weekend per month...so there are a couple of other issues that'll have to get worked out before he can tell them without them coming straight out and asking him (which is actually what he wants).

cherry88

Apr 17, 2013, 2:15 AM

your test = YESYESYES !!!

your parents = NONONONONO @@@

sounds to me like it is time to politely (sort of) tell you parents that they arent welcome to show up uninvited, ever, thank you.

then i would have a lot more 'test' parties with the 3 of you! that sounded pretty promising.

i dont think youre parents will do any of that nasty shit.. and if they do -they- need mental help...... but one way or the other, its not their business, youre an adult, youre living on your own, personally i would extend a very permanent invitation to stay the hell at home and mind their own fucking business. like, forever. its not up to them, none of that is, its not any of thier business in the slightest. and if they cant keep out of it i would tell them that you wont be speaking with them for a good long while.

then keep doing what you are doing, that sounded pretty good to me.

thumbs up @@@

ps im editing this to add: i dont mean to be harsh against your parents. they were probalby hoping to see you and got pretty shocked. still and all, they acted like little kids. its not their place to threaten any of that stuff no matter how they feel about what you do. they need to put on their big-people panties and mind their own business. even if they love you. even if you love them. time for them to realize you are a grown up they need to accept that. :>> still love the test yeah yeah yeah!!!

Melina

Apr 17, 2013, 2:57 AM

I'm having to take small steps...because there was a lot less preparation then I probably should've allowed...and I ended up telling my boyfriend after the friend left exactly what I was doing and he seemed okay with it...I told the friend earlier today though and ended up getting yelled at because what I'm ultimately planning (if it ever gets to the final step) is dangerous...or so he said. My boyfriend said he's (the friend) went back to how he used to act when they first met in regards to that...and it'll take a little while to get him to loosen up.

We did...um...my boyfriend told them that. Even though we did find out their threat about contacting his ex was an empty threat since they don't know her cell number or what area of Florida she even lives in (they know the county but not a more specific location).

Once the friend loosens up some...we plan too to have some more 'test' parties (and I do mean WE since my boyfriend has been clued in...the friend only knows a few of the plans).

I don't think they've told anybody he's bi and with what I said about them not knowing how to contact his ex...I don't think we have much to worry about. But yeah, it's not their business, I am an adult, 'on my own' not exactly but close enough, and you're statement about 'a very permanent invitation to stay the hell at home and mind their own fucking business' was what my boyfriend ended up telling them. And I think he has more authority to say that then I do. Why? Because this is his house and unless the government pulls some crazy stunt...this is his little piece of land too. Hence the signs 'Private Property' & 'No Trespassing'. I haven't really been able to get a word in edge wise with everything that's going on with my parents but a lot of things that has been said by my boyfriend...I'd actually want to say but I've always had a problem talking to my parents...especially with things that would sever contacts with them for a long period of time...and they know that.

I plan to keep doing what I am. Me and my boyfriend may have communication problems...and we're trying to work that out...but we both think that'll be a much longer process then these damned 'tests' will. Even though the main communication problem we were having actually got worked out by me simply not saying anything and letting him talk.

And in regards to your edit: My boyfriend had his fill of them back in early February-early March...because my mom was having a 'health issue' and my dad didn't want to deal with it so he dropped her here. By the time that month was over...my boyfriend was beating his head against the wall (literally) nightly because he couldn't keep handling it and since HE was having to deal with more of it then I was (not sure how the fuck that happened)...he didn't think it was his place (or even mine) to have to deal with that. But yeah, that would be pretty shocking. Yeah, they did...but I can't say my boyfriend hasn't acted like that on occasion and since he is older then I am...I think it's humorous when he'd act younger then his own kids (even though when he does that as a way to entertain, it can be funny). And no, it's really not their place especially when it starts involving HIS family...honestly the only thing I got in edge wise in the phone conversation between my boyfriend and parents (cell phones with a speaker option can be occasionally useful) was that they could say whatever they wanted about ME to MY family...but to not get involved with that part of HIS family. They love me and I love them...THAT won't change from this. I'm only 23...so they still consider me 'a young adult and not completely grown up yet'. It's a small step but my boyfriend understands why I'm doing this in small steps...'cause with this...giant leaps and bounds would cause us both to crash and burn.

elian

Apr 17, 2013, 5:52 AM

Wow, lots of stuff going on!

Your "friend" has feelings and a "reputation" too, so if he's angry at you maybe he's not quite ready to be as out, or do the things that you thought you wanted to do? Personally I like to be as honest and straightforward (but not necessarily blunt) with people as I can - it saves a lot of time and potential hurt feelings because of missed communication. I hope the "surprise" that you and your boyfriend are planning is a pleasant one that you are sure the third person will enjoy. Human beings do like "change" in small doses. Sometimes that is appropriate, sometimes not. As far as what just happened you all must've had a lot of pent up energy surrounding this issue..

Sometimes listening is good, I also have a problem where I probably talk a lot more than I should just try to listen instead. It takes a lot of patience to remember that you love someone and want the best for them while they are speaking.

I would view having to take care of your mom at your place as a test of your relationship - and it gives her an opportunity to see how you live, hopefully that you're not "bad people". I know that sort of thing can be very stressful but you only get one set of parents (well that's not really true either, I have parents, grand parents, step grand parents, step parents, etc.). Having said that, you still must do what you think is best for the both of you. It takes a lot of courage to put yourself out there and be vulnerable. Some of the relationships I have been in didn't really work out the way I wish they would have, but I did gain a lot of experience and I never regretted loving or caring for anyone.

Even if they told his ex - there must be a reason she is the 'ex' right? Like she wouldn't have already known that he at least had an interest in guys? Of course it's one more thing she could try to run back to court with if she was that type of person.

The children may not ASK their father if he likes guys either out of respect or not really wanting to know the answer. Or maybe they really just don't care. If he thinks it will cause more harm than good he can make that decision. If it ends up that your relationship does become stable I wouldn't necessarily see a problem with telling them. Maybe the more important thing than telling them he's "bisexual" is simply telling them he loves them and trying to help be in their lives the best he can.

Melina

Apr 17, 2013, 6:44 AM

The "friend" grew up in Canada like my boyfriend did (and yet neither of them are Canadian)...they didn't meet until my boyfriend started high school though. And the "friend" has no qualms whatsoever with what people think of him...and he wasn't angry at me because of the idea exactly...it's just that he's sick (has been since my boyfriend was still living in Canada...obviously several years)...and well...he said I hadn't really thought it through. Actually I had...I told him that...but he said I hadn't or I wouldn't have said what I did. (the plans I'd told him about) Once he loosens up to the idea, I think he'll be okay with it. But, if it was just pent up energy...he'll get over it sooner rather then later.

Test of our relationship? Explains why my boyfriend was beating his head against the wall near the end of that month...and that he ended up having to get his head examined after that because he'd given himself a freakin' concussion from beating his head against the wall to hard. And I wasn't handling it much better...I was being extremely snappy with him. If he so much as breathed (which he obviously had to do) I'd sometimes end up snapping at him. Of course, I don't think it helped the concussion when I cracked him in the head with a crowbar. (by what he said, if I had not done that...he probably would've never realized anything was wrong) I think some of my boyfriend's problem was actually that he'd had to take care of his mom when she was...ill (before his mom died) and he was having problems with handling having to then deal with my mom...honestly, I think it bothered him a lot more then what he'd say.

Yeah, there's a reason she is the ex...but it normally falls somewhere between 'Shut up', 'I don't want to talk about it', or the more recent 'Look at the scar on my back and then ask me'. Would she know that he had an interest in guys? That's what he's afraid of her finding out...so he doesn't think she knows. I don't know what the hell that woman wants anymore? Seriously, the only thing my boyfriend fought to keep was shared custody of the kids...anything else she wanted, she got (and since she can't drive a stick shift...it explains why my boyfriend kept the car)...he didn't care, he just wanted it over.

They do have a certain amount of respect for their father...but it is possible they don't really want to know. But if they get older and the same fights continue to happen over it...someone (either one of them or someone else) is going to get seriously hurt over it. And if they find out from a stranger (one they believe anyways) that he's bi...the same way they try to defend their father might turn to hatred or disgust towards him. But with his son being 9 and the twin daughters being 6 (they were born less then 6 months before the divorce actually happened)...he thinks there's still time to get our issues worked out before it really becomes a necessity for them to know (and he's wanting to make sure they can keep it a secret from their mom). He has told them that he loves them and trying to be in their lives the best he can...multiple times. One of the daughters reactions is always, 'If you wanted to be in our lives, why did you divorce mommy and move out of state'?

bi4asplay

Apr 17, 2013, 10:01 AM

Cheating is never the right thing to do.Most things between two people can be worked out. Regaining trust seldom happens.No matter how you try and forget the fact stays in the background. This being said true love does/can conquer all.

elian

Apr 17, 2013, 4:14 PM

That is a fair question from a child and since you still have many years of having to work together with the ex for the benefit of the children it doesn't seem appropriate to bad mouth their mom in front of the kids. Hopefully when they are older they will be able to understand for themselves why he had to leave. The best you can do right now might be to reassure them that it didn't have anything to do with them.

At least you are trying to reason through what happened with having to take care of your mom, if you can both work through what happened you can recognize when that sort of behavior is starting to happen again and maybe help each other cope..

When it's time to go, it's time - and I know that is hard to deal with when you love someone close to your heart. My grandfather first had a stroke, then he died of cancer.. All I can say is that when I think of someone who has died I think of them not as "gone" but rather "gone home". The pain and limitations of the body end but the energy and spirit live on in the memory of what they taught. None of us live forever, they left behind the best gift they could - you! (well your boyfriend - your mom is still alive)

When I was extremely angry and frustrated growing up I used to write in journals - just do SOMETHING to get those bad feelings out.. I think a journal is less expensive than a crowbar. If anyone were to read those books now they would probably get the impression of an angry, desperate person - I should probably throw them out. When you have that sort of bad energy you have to do what works and what is reasonable. Go for a walk, paint, draw, write..anything where you aren't likely to seriously damage any property, hurt someone else or yourself. Walking is fairly easy, you don't have to think - you just put one foot in front of the other and keep going. Exercise also helps to reduce stress. Emotions are fleeting, some people have success with meditation - I don't think that I could be patient enough to really practice it seriously.

When you feel frustrated, remember - you are so much more than helpless. You are love. You have the potential to do great things. Every day you live, you are writing a story. If YOU could write the story of YOUR life, what would you want it to say?

Melina

Apr 18, 2013, 12:02 AM

His son to a degree knows that it didn't have anything to do with him...even though he was little(er) he knew something wasn't right between his parents (smart kid)...but the twins have a harder time believing that because as I said...my boyfriend divorced their mom and left the state less then six months after they were born (it would've been four months but they were born 2 months earlier then expected).

Yeah...we are trying to 'reason through what happened'.

My boyfriend's mom ended up paralyzed due to an incident between her and her um...boyfriend (as my boyfriend said...if the policemen had not have been at the hospital...he might've ended up in jail...but he would've found the guy and he would've killed him) and ultimately the complications from her being paralyzed was what ended up causing her to...pass several years later. My boyfriend eventually came to terms that it was an accident but it sure as hell didn't make it easier to deal with at the time.

I don't like keeping journals...I know that my boyfriend keeps one on his laptop...but his laptop is password protected in more ways then one (to keep the unwanted eyes...more or less, ME...out). Yeah, exercise helps to reduce stress and keep you in shape. I think that's why my boyfriend likes this place so much...he can go out and jog without worrying about some idiot driver jumping the curb...so he doesn't exactly have to keep his eyes on the road. (well not to the same extent) We tried meditation...it made me hungry and my boyfriend fell asleep.

I like to write...I just don't think an autobiography would be my cup of tea (or my drink of choice...cappuccino).

On another note, I ended up finding something my boyfriend had been looking for...since before we met and when I pointed it out...he just sat there and kept saying over and over 'I am not a mistake...I am not an abomination'. When he eventually settled down...he went to sleep...and now that he's awake...is refusing to talk to me. I don't know why he took it so badly...but obviously telling him was not a very smart idea on my part.

Footy

Apr 18, 2013, 3:39 AM

" “I'm so tired of the legion of sluts proclaiming that being bisexual entitles them to 3-ways and keeping men/women on the side. It's utter falsehood,...”

“In response to the OP: a lot of "bi" men are just gay men who've lived extremely closeted lives and use bisexuality as a means to procreate and/or...”

It is interesting when I checked the other recent posts of cbb83. (two other posts today) There seems to be a pattern of negative statements about bisexuals to the point of biphobia if not hatred. There is not a lot of positivity or constructive advice for anyone in cbb83's post imo.

There are not as much "musts" when it comes to sexuality as there are "what are the best/healthiest/happiest, approaches if you find yourself being attracted to both men and women". When you strip away mainstream society's morality judgements (which cbb83 has quite a few) what are the wiser ways to live as a bisexual or live with a bisexual.

Melina
Your issues seem complex. You may want to consider some professional counselling with or without your b/f. I don't think that they are going to be resolved by posters on this site.
I just made an account to respond to this because I think cbb83 was right and you're unfairly criticizing him. Ripping apart his posting history isn't fair when it doesn't relate to to his advice in this thread. I'm a bisexual myself. I guess I can't prove that but it's not relevant. Anyway, the OP "Melina" shouldn't feel obligated to stay with a man who's not faithful to her. It doesn't matter if he's bisexual, trisexual, or a polka-dotted zebra; it's her right to date or not date who she wants. I also think cbb83's post was more "pro-bi" than yours because he said that bisexuality has anything to do with promiscuity is false, and he's right! There is NO excuse for cheating, and it's cheating if he has sex with other partners without her consent.

Melina, you shouldn't feel obligated to dump him just because he wants to have sex with men, either. That's totally up to you. You shouldn't feel like you're being pressured by "society", "traditional morality", or whatever else into not accepting that. You mentioned in your OP that he cheated on you before. That's already a major red flag; it ruins relationships and someone who cheated on you once is more likely to cheat on you again. But you know your situation best. I understand your bf's urges and allowing him to act on them doesn't necessarily mean he's unfaithful to you. It may even be fun for you to get involved.

Melina

Apr 18, 2013, 4:35 AM

How can someone be trisexual? There are only two sexes. (Either that or I failed health in school worse then I thought) A polka-dotted zebra though...that was funny. Aside from the funniness of that...I don't plan on dumping him...he made a mistake and we're trying to get past that. This time around he's being more open. I don't think I had as much of a problem with that (him wanting to sleep with other guys...I just didn't want him with another woman) right up until my parents found out that I MIGHT be okay with that...and then yeah, I felt pressured because I didn't want everything falling apart. Once we stripped away the main problem (in a sense, they actually did it to themselves) we're actually able to go through with it...albeit in small steps.

Yes, he did cheat on me...and I know that it is more likely for that to happen but I'm starting to understand WHY it happened like it did and even though I don't like it...to a point, I do understand it. (Of course, with him telling me so soon after it happened...to a certain degree...I think he knew he'd fucked up) I don't plan to get involved...but watching is more fun then I thought it would be.

Footy

Apr 18, 2013, 4:42 AM

My personal rule is if someone cheats on me that's one of the few things that's a relationship ender. However, I've never actually been in a relationship :( so I'm sure that's more easily said than done. I believe in forgiveness, and you know your relationship better than anyone, it's just I've just heard so many horror stories where someone looks back on a failed relationship but never picked up on any of the red flags until it was too late.

Sorry. Didn't want to spook you. ^_^

Melina

Apr 18, 2013, 4:52 AM

That's what I always thought I'd do...was that he cheat=I leave. That didn't happen. I've heard a lot of horror stories about that too...if that does end up happening...then it was my fuck up for not leaving...but what I ended up doing to him after he cheated...honestly, I'm surprised we're still together after that...but we are.

elian

Apr 18, 2013, 7:04 AM

What did you show him Melina? He is right - he is not a mistake, neither are you. You are both having to deal with a lot of powerful issues right now - take it slow and easy - be sure to show love to each other too.

Cheating is cheating, but I have heard from other spouses that in a bisexual relationship they are "okay" with another man, but not another woman, that sort of thing. Of course, it would be nice to be consulted first so that you can come to that decision on your own. Dwelling on the blame ony wastes good energy that you could otherwise be using to understand the situation and find a way to move forward (either together or apart).

You are thinking of biological sex, and typically you are right - there are two biological sexes, unless someone is born intersexed. So you have biological sex, which you know, then you have gender identity, which is your self-image (whether you feel more masculine or feminine), then there is sexual identity (who you are attracted to sexually) and gender roles (society's expectation of your behavior). All four of these things can be different.

You aren't a "mistake" just for who you fall in love with. I never had a problem with who I loved until you all started telling me it was wrong, sick and sinful. I will ALWAYS say it's not a mistake because by and large people are not mistakes. The fact that others judge them harshly when it is uncalled for is a mistake. The fact that people deny they've failed and refuse to learn is a mistake, but a person is not worth less BECAUSE they make mistakes. A person's "truth" is defined by their own experience.

Why is it that everyone thinks a five year old boy hugging a man is "cute" but an 18 year old boy hugging a man is "a mistake" ? "Old enough to know better?" I'm sorry but that's just sad. Our feelings do not shut off simply because we are "old enough to know better."

Another member shared this with me and I think it applies here:

A king went into his garden and found wilted and dying trees, shrubs and
flowers. The oak said it was dying because it could not be tall like the pine.
Turning to the pine, he found it drooping because it was unable to bear grapes
like the vine. And the vine was dying because it could not blossom like the
rose. He found Heart’s-ease blooming and as fresh as ever. Upon inquiry, he
received this reply:

“I took it for granted that when you planted me you
wanted Heart’s-ease. If you had desired an oak, a vine or a rose, you would have
planted them. So I thought that since you put me here, I should do the best I
can to be what you want. I can be nothing but what I am, and I am trying to be
that to the best of my ability.”

You are here because this existence
needs you as you are. Otherwise somebody else would have been here!–existence
would not have helped you to be here, would not have created you. You are
fulfilling something very essential, something very fundamental, as you are. If
God wanted a Buddha he could have produced as many Buddhas as he wanted. He
produced only one Buddha–that was enough, and he was satisfied to his heart’s
desire, utterly satisfied. Since then he has not produced another Buddha or
another Christ.

He has created you instead. Just think of the respect
that the universe has given to you! You have been chosen, not Buddha, not
Christ, not Krishna. You will be needed more, that’s why. You fit more now.
Their work is done, they contributed their fragrance to existence. Now you have
to contribute your fragrance.

But the moralists, the puritans, the
priests, they go on teaching you, they go on driving you crazy. They say to the
rose, “Become a lotus.” And they say to the lotus, “What are you doing here? You
have to become something else.” They drive the whole garden crazy, everything
starts dying–because nobody can be anybody else, that is not possible.

That’s what has happened to humanity. Everybody is pretending.
Authenticity is lost, truth is lost, everybody is trying to show that he is
somebody else. Just look at yourself: you are pretending to be somebody else.
And you can be only yourself–there is no other way, there has never been, there
is no possibility that you can be anybody else. You will remain yourself. You
can enjoy it and bloom, or you can wither away if you condemn it.

Melina

Apr 18, 2013, 7:26 AM

Remember the thing that was mentioned a few posts back? He'd spent over half his life believing that it either didn't exist or was in one of the multiple rewrites. When I actually bothered to look...it took about 15 minutes to find...he's having issues with that...even more so because I though our friend might have some luck talking to him...right up until the friend said he'd known about it since before they met but just doesn't think it means the same as it used to and he'd known my boyfriend would take it bad if he pointed it out so he pretended he didn't know. Yeah, that didn't help...at all.

Yeah...that was kind of what I thought too and then...pressure, pressure, grr!

Yup. I failed health worse then I knew.

Yeah, just because we mature doesn't mean we lose certain feelings (even though people do grow past certain things, other things aren't as simple).

Nice little poem/story/thing.

elian

Apr 18, 2013, 5:51 PM

I thought you were talking about a Bible verse or something he learned when we was 18, what is it that we are talking about? I don't know what else I can say to get him to stop beating himself up over that. When I was a young teen most of the men in my life told me I was worthless, it was God who asked me to hang on to this life. Actually what he said was, "I've already lost one son, I don't need to lose another".

There were plenty of times I didn't think I had a right to exist in this world. Was I a "mistake" ? If so, why would God even bother, he should have let me die on the spot.

What I was told instead was "I love you", countless times - both spiritually and by good friends and family around me. If I would have told my parents sooner, maybe I wouldn't have had to suffer so much but they were my only support at the time and I didn't dare risk telling them. I once felt that he really must be disappointed that I never had a wife, never got married - because I think that is what was originally intended for my life and so I said, "Boy you must be disappointed.." The reply I got was, "I just want you to be happy."

That could mean a lot of things - my life isn't exactly over yet - but at the time it was a relief to hear those words.

The world is full of frustrated, miserable or scared people who are so sure they know everything..

Hopefully this clip isn't too hokey for you..I can't say whether or not this is real but it makes an interesting point - some people might say it justifies sin but I don't know..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKtSVSedii0

Melina

Apr 18, 2013, 10:20 PM

Yeah...that verse is what I was referring too. He just spent so much time denying that it actually existed that...not one of my brighter ideas showing it to him. Even though sitting out in the storm yesterday getting soaked...wasn't one of his either.

What basically me and his friend tried getting across to him (the friend eventually had to leave because he needed his meds or he would have stayed longer) was that God doesn't make mistakes. And there's no 'fixing' the way they are. Even though neither of us thought it was progress at all when my boyfriend started saying 'Fine, I'm not a mistake. I'm an abomination...that's what they refer to it as'. And I got in touch with my boyfriend's neurologist and he basically told me with him acting like that...he'd be the last person on Earth who should talk to my boyfriend right then. (He's vocalized his problem with the statement before...and it normally doesn't end up going well)

The last thing my boyfriend wants right now is 'justification'...or 'communication' for that matter. His pet ferret has spent most of the day curled up next to him which did cheer him up a little but he still isn't really communicating.

elian

Apr 19, 2013, 6:28 AM

http://www.soulforce.org/resources/four-step-journey-into-soulforce ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pBBqxaOXvg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9woWAs2i5Ps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9pu_tg9RAY

The universe does not give us challenges in our life to punish us, but instead to help us reach our full potential.

My relationship with "religion" became a lot better when I stopped viewing God as an angry old white man in the sky and started seeing the divine as a loving partner that ultimately wants to give me the chance to reach my full potential...at times what it is trying to teach me may seem painful, but the goal is always good..to learn what it means to live a life and make choices.

Some people believe that the Bible is the word of God, that may be, but I know damn well that it was written by the hand of man. The old testament passages were written by a tribe of Israelites who were desperately trying to keep it together. Men one THOUSAND years ago could probably not conceive of the type of loving, committed relationship that we are talking about as the ideal now. There were books of the BIble written by early Christian authors that were considered to be too "controversial" to be included in the current canon (including one which included some representation of female gender equality?) People use the Bible to justify subjugation. We have been picketed by the Westboro Baptist "Church" before - they were upset that the movie "Jim in Bold" was going to be shown in the local area. Why? Because as long as you can keep people from seeing that GAY people are JUST LIKE YOU, as long as you isolate them then you can continue to stereotype them. Until every Christian gets to know an LGBT person on a personal level we will CONTINUE to have people in denial. That doesn't mean it is true, it means that they are uncomfortable with it. Human beings are uncomfortable with things all of the time, but that doesn't mean that those things are not a part of creation that is worthy of respect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeLDsBPSzYg

On suffering; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mFRUGDY8Ao

There isn't a message clearer to me than God actually saying, I love you, I want you to be happy. There is a struggle to get the rest of society to understand (acceptance is a long way off yet) the issue of being born "different". We are certainly not the first minority to experience discrimination, but you can sort of hide your sexual attraction. The whole issue really is about love and acceptance. Will society learn to love people for who they really are - or not? Both society and people like those who post on this board are both learning a lot and coming to terms with each other. Thankfully your boyfriend lives in a time right now when more and more people are coming to understand what it means to struggle like that against institutional discrimination. He is far from alone, there are so many people that feel the same way and a lot more people who love him than he is probably aware of.

It took me about 15 years to become somewhat comfortable with this, so maybe it is unreasonable of me to think your boyfriend can figure it out overnight...but the simple fact of the matter is he is NOT an abomination. I've tried to send you some resources that I've found helpful throughout this thread but he is going to have to work through this process on his own, hopefully with encouragement from people that care about him in his life.

At the end of that process you will get to decide if you want to continue to be with him or not..either way it is probably worthwhile for both of you, although I can't promise it won't be without mixed emotions.

Melina

Apr 19, 2013, 6:45 AM

Some people believe that the Bible is the word of God, that may be, but I know damn well that it was written by the hand of man.
o.O My dad used to tell me that a lot...he still does on occasion. (even though we're not on speaking terms right now) And I know you're both right...it's just I'd never really heard/seen anyone else say that...THAT way.

As I've been told even by a um...preacher. Laws in the old testament...some of them weren't even relevant by the time the new testament was written. So there are certain things that can't be taken at face value.

I did find a solution to my boyfriend not talking to me...I tied him up outside and told him he wasn't coming back in until he started talking to me again. I guess I should've specified no yelling since that's what he ended up doing. But it was raining and he was wanting back in here...

MNbimarried12345

Apr 19, 2013, 7:57 AM

He should have told you he was bisexual before you got married so you could make an informed decision whether or not to marry him to begin with. He needs to take responsiblity for not telling you and being honest about who he is. Having said that, you cant train him. You have a few choices to make. It's likely he'll cheat again. There's a lot of bisexual men cheating on their wives. You can learn to accept that he's bi or you can fight with him on the issue. It's a fight you'll never win. Another choice is to get a divorce.
I have been married for 15 years and I told her I am bisexual when we were dating. She has always accepted it and if she didn't, we never would have gotten married.

Melina

Apr 19, 2013, 8:05 AM

1. He's my boyfriend...not my husband. Honestly, I don't like the thought of marriage is why we are NOT married.
2. He is taking responsibility for it...and he's actually being more honest then I thought he would be.
3. I know it's more likely for him to cheat again...that's why we're taking the steps me are...in the pretest...tests.
4. I am learning to accept that he's bi...I can find other things to fight with him over...quite easily. I wouldn't expect to win that fight though.

Train him? That's a matter of opinion...I am working at a couple things but those are few and far between. We're dealing with other things at the moment...that has nothing to do with the 'training'.

elian

Apr 19, 2013, 6:27 PM

OK so someone wrote a letter to the local paper about how God must be "tormented" over the thought of gay marriage and I felt compelled to respond. In this response you will find my understanding of the true lesson behind the story of Sodom and Gomorrah..

Sorry to get all preachy, but maybe someone will find it of value.

I agree with bimarried - he should have told you he was gay or bi when your relationship started to get serious, but from what you've told me before it sort of seems like you might've already known.

When you told us about keeping your boyfriend outside I couldn't help but think of a dog tied up to the shed out back.. Seems sad, I'm sorry to judge .. I guess if that's the only way you can communicate for now you have to do what you have to do..

--

Let me understand this, the God of the universe, an omnipotent supernatural being with no sense of time and space who supposedly created EVERYTHING we see, touch feel and taste is going to be “tormented” by the thought of a few people showing love to each other in what some people claim is an “unusual” way?

This issue isn't about “sex” and it isn't about “sodomy” - the issue is about love and acceptance. It is easy to choose who not to have sex with, it is a lot harder to choose not to fall in love.

My view is that if God is tormented by anything it is because we haven't yet learned to treat each other with divine compassion. Literally less than one percent of of our DNA accounts for all of the differences we quibble over so badly – skin color, gender, height, and although there are very few studies I am willing to bet on sexual orientation as well. These are the same variations that have allowed the human species to adapt to our world over time and survive.

I have felt torment too, but usually it comes from people who are grappling to come to terms with the fact that creation is much broader than they ever thought.

As a bisexual man, the only thing I have ever felt from God about my sexuality is love. Growing up I read all of your testimony about how homosexuality was a sick, sinful behavior, I internalized all of that – you wanted me to be isolated, you wished I didn't exist - it brought me to the edge of wanting to commit suicide many times.

You claim to speak for God, but God was the one who convinced me to keep going on. In the face of great doubt and torment HE was the one who told me time and time again, “I love you”.

The “sin” of Sodom and Gomorrah was the sin of inhospitality. The law of the land was that when a stranger came to your door you offered them hospitality. The people in the city were very wealthy - they grew greedy, envious and prideful and they did not want strangers in their town. Lot was the only one who would invite the strangers in and when he did a mob from the town tried to gang rape two Angels of the Lord because of the sin in their hearts. THAT is why God punished those cities. (Incidentally, I seem to remember seeing footage of a lot of “pillars of salt” in the 1950's out in the Nevada desert.)

No one is advocating greed, envy, pride or rape here so your comparison is irrelevant. The “sin” that we should be concerned with is the fear and loathing of your brothers and sisters. They are as God made them and I know that it is difficult for you to find it in your heart to come to turns with that.

I know that you may never accept my “lifestyle” - I'm not really asking you too. I believe that any clergy that doesn't want to perform same-sex marriage should not be forced to do so. I believe that any business that does not want to serve a gay wedding (such as that florist in Washington state) should not be FORCED to do so.

However what I am asking you to do is to treat me and the LGBT teens who die every year because someone told them they are “better off dead than gay” with the same respect that you would show any other worthy part of creation.

I cannot change who I love, I used to BEG God to tell me why he made me this way.

In this place, at this time, in this way I am apparently needed (?) You can quote all the Bible verses you want, you can pray over my soul, but in my 35 years of being here my eyes cannot deny what I see in my heart. That gender should not be a barrier to love.

I know several same sex couples who have been committed to each other for AT LEAST 10 years if not more. I will always say that it is not a “mistake” because I believe by and large that PEOPLE are not “mistakes”. I know that most of those couples who really want to get married are true to each other with all of their being.

The people who are asking for this are not really trying to flaunt their sexuality, they just want the same civil (and in some cases spiritual) rights as any other American Citizen.

It's really peculiar that a very small portion of the population actually WANTS to get married, be committed to each other and have a stable family and you won't let them. Meanwhile heterosexual marriages are on the decline and many straight people really could care less about marriage.

Straight folks actually have a lot to talk about regarding their own sexuality, marriage, gender and relationships as well. How convenient that up until now instead of having those hard discussions they have simply been able to remain in denial, point to LGBT people instead and simply say "not that".

myschyfnmayhem

Apr 19, 2013, 7:50 PM

Whether it's Bi sex or not you need to be entirely honest with each other. No matter what else you decide that is the most important thing. A relationship is what you define it as,not what others expect it to be.

Melina

Apr 19, 2013, 10:02 PM

@elian=He normally does not mind being tied up like that...it's just with it raining was his problem. It's a game we play...and it works awfully easy since he already wears a collar. Attach chain to collar, tie chain to tree, handcuff his hands behind his back and tah-dah.

After my boyfriend started talking again (and had settled down) he did come up with a rather interesting statement: I am who I am, if the bible thumping idiots society (nice name, eh?) have a problem with it they can fuck off. My being depressed over it isn't going to change the fact that I'm bi...and if I'm going to hell for anything, I doubt it'll be for this. And I doubt that God would've allowed me to be born...or conceived for that matter if I'm damned because I am bi.
^Sometimes I think there is something seriously wrong with him mentally. He has more mood swings then I do.

Yeah, Sodom and Gomorrah was guilty of so much more then the one claim.

My only sister married an African-American man and whatever connection she had with her dad (my dad) diminished even more...their relationship had always been stretched...then that. (my dad grew up in a time where inter-racial marriage was wrong in many ways) One of my brothers died before I was born (on Christmas Day of all things), another is a jailbird, and the other is gay. I guess I'm just another fuck up with my dads other kids since I'm in love with a bisexual guy.

Since I'm able to learn more about the bisexual lifestyle...both from talking to people on here and through actually LISTENING to my boyfriend...I may eventually be able to come to accept it.

Even if I wasn't terrified of the thought of marriage...I still wouldn't want to get married...because marriage is a total and complete mess with the way it works.

@myschyfnmayhem=Good way to put it.

elian

Apr 19, 2013, 10:43 PM

Nearly everyone is fighting a hard battle to understand what their potential is and where they fit into the world. it sounds like your dad could really use a hug or some folks in the family to let him know he is loved. I hope that -some day- you are able to reconcile. I try very hard to respect people, even if I don't always agree with their behavior.

I am glad your boyfriend has considered things and come to his own "positive" conclusion because at least in my experience whether it is genetic. biological, environmental or a combination of all three - these are very powerful feelings that are not likely to go away any time soon. Even if he likes men, it is very possible that he loves you to pieces, you know better than I do.

Collar, chain? -wicked evil grin- oh my.. ;)

Right now, I wouldn't get married either, but that doesn't mean that you both can't help and support each other.

Melina

Apr 19, 2013, 11:26 PM

I already know he loves me...I think he's happier since I'm taking (small) steps to eventually (perhaps) get to what he ultimately wants.

Yeah, collar and chain. Then there's the handcuffs, whip...other odd items. (a padlocked room where all that shit is kept so his kids don't find it)

Yeah...we can still help, support, and love each other even if we never do...THAT.

elian

Apr 20, 2013, 7:08 AM

Yeah, yeah - more hardware than a Russian fishing trawler.. (grins) - but I think one of the most erotic things you can do to a submissive person when they are allowing themselves to feel prone is show them that you want them, love them and accept them.

Mother Theresa says that the hunger for love is more powerful than the hunger for bread and I tend to agree.

Assuming you aren't both completely "oil and water" maybe you will work it out with more experience. There are some secrets that people do keep but like others have said, honesty, or at least honest communication is important.

Melina

Apr 20, 2013, 7:24 AM

Yeah, I've tried that...when he gets into that frame of mind...that's the last thing he wants (aside from the acceptance, that he likes)...he throws a fit if I say something like 'I love you' at that point.

Yeah, that's our goal. Honest communication, good idea.

'Why the hell is it anytime you want me here that you wait until I've already taken my meds to knock me out? You two do realize I live over an hour from here. You're either going to work this out to where that isn't happening or I can start staying here because I can't keep doing this'! That's what the friend told both of us earlier...We might want to get the issue with the friend worked out first because I don't think either of us considered how it would be affecting him.

elian

Apr 20, 2013, 7:33 AM

Good idea about your friend, if you abuse him you are very likely to lose him.

I once had a boyfriend (ahem) who liked things a little rough in bed (cough cough) - I'm not entirely sure I knew how to please him 100% because I was not into seriously dominating someone else. Maybe I am not the best source of advice but there are ladies who post here that may have some experience in that area.

Melina

Apr 20, 2013, 7:40 AM

Yeah...he's more my boyfriend's friend then mine but um...if we do plan to continue these pretest...tests...we need to stay on his good side or this'll all end up going up in smoke. Even though in regards to the pretests...my boyfriend skipped 4 of them.

Due to my inexperience in that area...my boyfriend ended up having to explain what he liked and there were only a few things that I wouldn't (and some I still won't) do to him.

Melina

Apr 23, 2013, 4:05 AM

Not sure if anybody still wants updates but:
I don't know what I find so exciting about my boyfriend performing orally on another guy...but it certainly is...exciting. Even though they've both (my boyfriend and the friend he is...pleasuring) told me in the last couple days that I've lost my damn mind.

elian

Apr 23, 2013, 5:57 AM

Well, if you like it, that's only a good thing right? :)

I think you will manage fine as long as you all remember to treat each other with honesty and respect from now on.

It would seem that just like there are a certain number of men who get hot and bothered over seeing two ladies pleasuring each other - there are several ladies who also enjoy viewing men together. Hmm, I think my pants just got tighter all of the sudden .. oops.

Melina

Apr 23, 2013, 6:31 AM

Yeah...it's a good thing even if my boyfriend thinks I've lost my mind...

Yeah...I certainly hope so.

Apparently...yeah some women do...and I'm one of them...and I never thought I'd enjoy watching that kind of thing but it's a lot more exciting then I thought it would be.

I know that the friend ended up asking my boyfriend why my attitude has changed towards what's happening and my boyfriend ended up telling him that his only thought would be like he said and that I've lost my damn mind or that I just like watching him on his knees for another man...and if that's the case, this could turn out a lot better then he expected.

Melina

May 1, 2013, 9:01 AM

Well for another update:
On the 29th, I decided to pull a stunt on my boyfriend that he'd already pulled on me...which was to skip a few of the pre-test tests...honestly, I think I put way to many pre-tests into my thoughts...so I let my boyfriend skip the rest of the them (I'm not a very patient person) but when we (my boyfriend and I) were heading to where the 'friend' lives...my boyfriend asked me several times why I was the one wanting to go. We were about halfway there when I told him and he asked me why I'd told him about the other pre-tests if I was just gonna let him skip them and I told him that I'm impatient...he didn't really say anything but his reaction was one of those 'DUH' looks on his face. So, when we got to the 'friends' home...I told him my idea and he cussed me out. Eventually my boyfriend decided to be 'the voice of reason', the friend basically said that he was wondering if by my impatience...if that's going to end up causing issues if anything did happen and I ended up yelling at him 'What the hell is your problem, Andrew? I'm more-or-less saying that as a test run sort of thing I want you to sleep with Chris (Chris is my boyfriend's name). You two had a relationship before he even met his now ex...why do you have such a problem with that idea now'? Eventually Andrew gave into the idea. Chris ended up asking me if I wanted to watch...and I agreed. What the hell? I've obviously lost my mind anyways. Sad thing is, I didn't mind and after a certain point, I got bored. After Andrew (Andrew is the friends name) had finished with Chris. I ended up asking Chris sarcastically if he was happy and he just smirked. After a little bit, Andrew just left the room (I think he figured out I was planning something else). The other thing I was planning was to have sex with Chris so that's what I did...yeah, we ended up spending the night and part of the next day at Andrew's. (Probably would've helped if I'd have planned that out for the weekend) But, on our way back here Chris ended up telling me that the next time I planned on that to forgot it because he didn't like it. In a sense, 'one person per day' type of thing is how he described it once we got home. So, that's the end of this update.

elian

May 1, 2013, 4:37 PM

So the thought of those two together bore you? is that because you were watching only instead of playing or do you now trust that your boyfriend only wants sex from his friend? It is up to the people involved to decide who gets to touch what...or if there is enough trust maybe people allow you to do what you want knowing that you aren't intentionally trying to harm them.

Frankly I don't have any real comment to make, I'm sure you will all work it out one way or the other. Bisexual people typically love (or lust after) each person in their own way. If I had to guess I would say that there are things that Andrew gives you boyfriend that you can't give him, but also there are things that you give your boyfriend that Andrew can't as well.

Hopefully you will all figure it out, if not then there is always breaking up - but like I have always said - if it comes to that then hopefully you can still be friends.

Melina

May 2, 2013, 12:23 AM

Does the thought of those two together bore me? Apparently.
I trust Chris and I really don't see him being able to maintain many sexual relationships without it ultimately affecting him negatively. (his max seems to be two...)
Chris trusts Andrew enough and I trust him too...I don't see him ever hurting Chris on purpose. (Unless Chris pisses him off and then I really wouldn't know)

I tend to agree with you...there are things that Andrew or I can give Chris that the other can't give him.

I hope so too...I think though that as long as my parents stay out of this that things will be okay...since I seem to be able to handle this so much better when I'm not having to listen to them condemn the relationship in general.

On a side note, my parents did show up here on the 27th...and so did Andrew's little brother. Andrew bolted, his brother chased him, and it ended with Chris beating the shit out of Andrew's brother (I thought Andrew was the one who had a problem with Matt...yikes!)...after that Chris told them that if they ever set foot on this property again without prior consent that he'd have them arrested for trespassing. (strangely enough, I didn't mind the thought of that) Even though I don't think any part of the plan was for Matt to find out Andrew was still...alive.

elian

May 2, 2013, 6:07 AM

So your parents tried to do an "intervention" and it failed?

I am sorry to hear that things are not going well. I can't imagine trying to beat the crap out of someone but I don't know the whole history of everyone involved. I have heard that some parents literally sequester their children (teens) away with a pastor, pray over them and refuse to let their children leave until the child recant their beliefs. The child lies, the parents feel that they are being heroes because the thought in their minds of their own child living in sin, going to hell is too much to bear.

I didn't always want these feelings but they are a part of who I am now. So what if I find guys attractive? Even after all of these years the hateful words that mentors I looked up to say poison my soul. In a different culture I might not hate myself so much but western culture is patriarchal and for a man to admit that he is anything other than what society expects is.. Being human it is hard to do but one day I am determined to replace those feelings of doubt and self hate with love.

All (real or imagined) brimstone aside, the issue is hard enough to deal with at face value as it is. The bottom line is, what can you both live with? Is there a chance of being happy and loving each other without jealousy and those other feelings or is it time to move on?

elian

May 2, 2013, 6:14 AM

There are so many more good things in life besides worrying about who you sleep with. :)

Melina

May 2, 2013, 7:06 AM

Yeah...their 'intervention' failed.

I'm not real sure about the entire history between Chris, Andrew, and Matt myself...I know that Andrew and Matt never really got along after Andrew started high school...and after Chris started high school he ended up somehow involved in their 'sibling rivalry' and ended up preventing Andrew from beating the shit out of Matt on several occasions (Matt would've still been in Elementary school at that time...) so it was certainly a switch from what I actually know about that for Chris to do it. (especially with Matt's daughter and Chris' three kids here when that happened...even though I'm still unsure why Matt's daughter didn't say a word since she saw the whole...incident...same as Andrew and I did)

I think we'll be able to live with what's going on...I think Chris' main problem was he was...tired and I didn't exactly let him rest. And I don't feel jealous...Chris has been a tad more...perky then I've gotten used too though which is kind of fun.

Melina

May 16, 2013, 9:11 AM

Well...for another update. Most of the time has been normal. Friday night, Chris screwed around with Andrew and I still don't really care. We spent the night at Andrew's...and when I actually woke up (which for once I actually went to sleep before daylight) Chris'd left me there which I would've found odd but when Andrew told me that Chris had left around 5am because Chris was actually gonna get to see his kids (okay, just his son but one kid is better then none)...I partly understood it. Andrew said that it wasn't that Chris didn't care, it was just that he didn't want to wake me up and he had nothing to worry about leaving me there since Andrew's gay. Before Andrew brought me back here...he actually played a little Q&A with me...he'd ask me a question, I'd answer and then I'd ask him one and he'd answer. It helped us understand a little more about each other and I figured out a couple things out about Chris that I didn't know...one in particular that kinda scared me.
Andrew explained to me that Chris' relationship with his ex was more or less bound to fell from the start...both Andrew and Chris' mom had tried to warn Chris (I guess Chris' dad decided to stay out of that or he was just naive)...but Chris wouldn't listen. Andrew's problem may've been jealousy but he knows that sure as hell wasn't Chris' moms problem. After Chris' son was born, Chris was starting to figure that out for himself. After his mom died and he went up to Canada for her funeral and had stayed with Andrew for a few weeks because he didn't want to go home...Chris admitted to Andrew that he'd been right about Jessica and...then when she showed up there and told Chris she was pregnant with the twins...Chris told her that he didn't want them...hell, after she left he told Andrew that he wanted out of the whole damn thing and after Chris had decided to at least stay with Jess until after the twins were born...since even though he still objected...he knew she wouldn't give in even if he did want her to give in. (If his daughters ever find that out...that's not going to end well at all) After the twins were born and Chris told Jess he wanted a divorce...which stupidly he said while they were alone (well, as alone as they could get) Jess ended up stabbing him in the back and telling him that she'd never let him go. Matt's the one who ended up having to take him to the hospital since he was refusing to go. That's ultimately why Chris left the state...because he couldn't deal with Jess anymore even if it meant not seeing his kids every day. While Chris was dealing with the divorce before he left the state, he was staying with Matt...and Matt's wife.
When Chris moved up here...and basically threatened to drag Andrew down here if he didn't come. Even though I have done things to Chris that Jess probably would've NEVER done...Andrew ended up telling me that going by what Chris has told him...that Chris doesn't much care what I do to him as long as I don't leave. Andrew basically ended up asking me that even though he knew Chris has a psychological disorder (if you want to call Chris being a masochist a disorder) and neurological problems that ultimately I caused...that if there was something MORE wrong with Chris because to him Chris saying just seems way off his normal attitude. There were always limits to what Chris would allow Andrew to do when they were primarily involved even though Andrew always liked pushing those limits. There were obviously limits to how much Chris could handle with Jess. And between Chris and Matt, it was more of a game. I told'em that he was probably right...Danny's been trying to warn me since Chris' last hospital stay that eventually I'll probably end up killing him and he wouldn't try to stop me which I didn't really understand since if Chris WANTED to stop me...he could.
Andrew said that that is the problem...that I keep saying 'If Chris wanted to stop me he could' but that he doesn't want too. He'll do whatever he has to defend me but anymore...he won't really do anything to harm me...besides argue with me but since that normally ends very well...that doesn't exactly count. It's strange, Danny's tried explaining that to me multiple times but I guess it took Andrew to say it in a way that I understood. Andrew also said though that if I could fine the point of my aggression with Chris...that perhaps I could learn to control it to where Chris don't end up hurt anymore (hurt bad...not just hurt) and just has to deal with what's already happened...so yeah, Chris probably needs help...but apparently so do I. Not Andrew's most likeable comment he's told me.
After Andrew had brought me back here...Chris and his son were both asleep...something tells me neither of them wanted to be awake when they had been earlier that day. Later that day (after they'd both woken up and Andrew had left) Chris' son ended up asking him if he was bi like several of the kids at the school had been saying that even though he didn't believe them that he'd like to know either way whether his dad (Chris) was or not. (I'll be damned, one of his kids finally decided to ask!) Chris told'em that he was but not to tell his mom (Chris' ex a.k.a. Jess)...it upset Chris' son to know that but by the time he had to go home...he seemed to be okay with it. Not real sure about that but...as Chris said that's his problem to deal with if his son has more of a problem with it then he's letting on...not mine.
Yeah...my parents haven't been in the picture since Chris threatened to have them arrested if they set foot on this property again without prior consent. So, Chris and I are getting to work out a few issues of our own...and so far 1 of his 3 kids know that he's bi. Chris said that something he's wanting to get worked out is the problems between Andrew and Matt but that's his pet project so that's on the back burner of things to do right now. (Good luck Chris! Those two haven't gotten along since before Chris met Andrew or for that matter before...I was even born!) Even though I seriously don't understand why the fuck Andrew wants to watch Chris and me when we're...screwing around...I already know he's seen videos...but seriously there are certain things I do NOT understand! Not real sure about doing any updates after this until I can figure out a way to avoid Chris ending up hospitalized again (Unless its something that happened before 'cause that I can't keep from happening again. No more bad injures! I don't like the guilt from that!).