My Boyfriend is Gay and I'm a Woman... are we doomed?!?!

[zarine]

ok, to tell you the truth, i don't even know where to begin my story. so i will probably just give a general idea of the situation and then just clarify as we go along. i know more than likely the response i will get to my situation is "yeah you guys are doomed", but i'm hoping maybe, just maybe there will be some good advice, or some interesting stories anyone can share with me. before i get into my own story, i'd like to say that i did research trying to find similar situations to mine. so far the only two stories i could find were this one predominantly gay man who got married to a wonderful woman, had a fairly happy sex life with her but then eventually found he still needed to have male lovers. she allows this, and they have a great relationship, but he admitted she does get jealous sometimes. the other one is that musician tom robinson who seemed to be almost completely gay and then fell in love with a woman. but that's all the details i got of that story. i couldn't find any info on how they deal with the relationship, if he needs to have male lovers on the side or not. i tried writing to him, and i just got some lousy response from someone telling me that of course he's too busy for emails and that i should go to some bisexual sites or whatever. so here i am. if anyone has some stories of successful gay-man-with-a-woman relationships, please share them with me!

i'll just give a basic rundown of my situation. my boyfriend has always liked guys. in high school he dated a couple of girls and apparently had sex with them. he states that he was attracted to their interesting personalities. but then i guess when he went off to college, he dated only guys for a few years. then rumors started going around about him and they reached his parents, who got really upset and confronted him and he denied being gay to them. some of his friends also deserted him when they learned he was gay. he also had a couple of bad experiences while dating guys that further pushed him to want to stop living "that lifestyle". he also stated that all guys care about is sex, that there's not many who really want a meaningful relationship. so he's determined not to be gay, for the sake of keeping family and friends. anyway, he revealed his story to me after a few months of talking to each other and hanging out. we had started really liking each other, and i guess he finally felt he could trust me with his secret (i really feel like i'm betraying him by getting on this site and telling the story, but i really need to talk about this or i'll go nuts. if he were more cooperative, i'd feel better, but he's not, so i really need some help here). we have a pretty good relationship, though sometimes a bit lacking in communication, especially in subjects that make him uncomfortable.

anyway, it took him a long time to even get comfortable with my body (and i'm not even really sure just how comfortable he is) and now the big fear is boredom. he said he got bored with his girlfriends. he doesn't seem to care much for the female body. i have no doubt that he does love me, but my physical traits get in the way of his sexual happiness, i'm sure. sometimes he seems into it and then other times he seems dissatisfied and wants to do my butt, which i totally hate. also, he likes to have his butt fucked, but refuses to cooperate with me and shop for a freaking strap-on dildo so i can be "his man" sometimes. he complains that that would be too kinky and that it's no good since he knows it's a fake dick anyway.

he doesn't like the idea of having a third person involved or a lover on the side, and personally, i would not want a third person involved with us unless it's someone we both care deeply about and trust. we don't need to be infected with horrible diseases and such due to the third person's sluttiness. i'm not comfortable with having sex with people out of the clear blue... i have to actually know and like and trust someone, and i don't like the idea of him having sex with just anyone because who knows where they've been? aaaanyway, he seems resistant to the idea, even if we had someone we really cared about who would be willing to satisfy his need for men. not only that, but if he WERE to have another lover, then i think it would be unfair for him to have all these sexual adventures while i'm supposed to be the ever-loving, ever-faithful dog who also has to feel unwanted, unsexy, and unsatisfied. if he is allowed to have other lovers, then i should be allowed to, also. so if he decides that he does need a guy on the side, he would need to accept the idea of me having other lovers, too. i have no idea at this point whether he'd be able to accept that. i guess i'll only find out if the situation ever crops up. and then what happens if we do have our other lovers? would our love wind up spread too thin?

everything's so confusing. he just always tells me i worry too much and that i shouldn't worry, he won't cheat on me or leave me. but it's so hard not to worry. i know that denying who you are is always a bad idea; a recipe for disaster. i'm afraid one day he'll just breakdown and go out to a club and just screw some stranger. and it just hurts to see sometimes that when i'm enjoying myself he seems unexcited and then asks for my butt. i really don't know what to do!!! it's so frustrating, especially since he doesn't seem to want to experiment a little. anyway, i'm babbling. if anyone has any suggestions, thoughts, stories, etc. i'd be grateful to hear them.

[littlerayofsunshine]

Hun, First off.. Take a deep and refreshing breath.. You just unloaded alot. I get a sense of your hurt, pain, and anger that you are feeling. And do not feel you are betraying him. You are the most important factor in this right now. Your health and wellbeing. You have alot of weight that you are carrying and not having open lines of communication with your love only adds to the burden.

I can't offer you a happy story. I don't know how long you two have been together. But if one of your problems is communication. Then I suggest couples counseling. A safe enviroment, you will be able to express and also gain tools of communicating.


You don't sound happy at all. The way you describe him, sounds as if he is struggling with in himself. You can't fix it, He doesn't seem to be ready yet. So again I suggest counseling. Maybe separate and couples.

Everyones situation is unique, there is never one fix all answer. We each have to work at finding the right path to our own happiness. You know what you are missing in your life, you know what will make you happy and fullfilled. You must be the one to go after it.

If he is unwilling to work at it, if he doesn't open up to you, if he can't express himself and you to him. If he doesn't want to be bothered that is his problem and is not your fault. One thing that couples learn is not to internalize every aspect of their partners behavior. He is the way he choses to be. And the same goes for you hun.

If you want it to work, then do everything you can to make it work, do everything you can to get him involved. Demand a better, stronger relationship. But if its only you keeping everything together.. Then it will fall apart. You will run out of energy, you will lose yourself.

I am a bi-wife of a bi-man, I have spoken with many other bi-men. I have yet to hear of a situation where the man was unwilling to allow the wife/girlfriend to be accomodating to his sexual needs, in fact, most find it quite a love enhancer and very arousing. More often than not, Its the wife who doesn't want to use the strap on. You seem to be trying very hard hun, running every idea and scenario through your head. I wish you the best. I wish I could have a better answer for you. *hugs* Try counseling.. And even if he won't go, you go.


P.S. I hope that this post doesn't come off the wrong way. I am trying to sounds as compassionate as I can. Without more detail I can only reply to what I see and feel from your post.

[zarine]

haha, ok i know i was starting to sound a bit crazed, but i just wanted to get the big issues out first and then just explain in better detail as i go along since i didn't really want to write a novel. i know for sure he wouldn't want to go to a counselor, and i don't either. i don't think i need one. what i'm really wanting is to get some opinions, stories, perspectives, whatever, that will help me reach my own conclusions. and who better to get information from than people who have experienced these situations? a counselor can sit there and listen and throw psychology stuff at me, but it doesn't mean that they necessarily experienced it.

i've been pushing him a lot to try to discuss things with me and try to work to solve problems, and sometimes he'll give a little, but then i can sense when he starts getting annoyed and so i don't want to push him too much or nag too much. i'm trying to approach things firmly but not forcefully. i don't want to force him into anything he doesn't want to do, but i also want to make it clear to him that he needs to open up more so that our relationship won't hit the rocks one day. i've already told him that i can't be the one to do all the work in making sure things work, that it takes two. we've been together for about 2 years and i would say it's mostly a good relationship. it's just the sex issue that really worries me. i really don't know how to tell just how bad is his need to be with guys... he just acts so stoic. he keeps insisting that it's not important to him. but then what does it mean when he fizzles out on me and then needs my butt? why is my ass more exciting than my vagina? :-\

so is the strap-on dildo a good addition? would it at least make him a teeny bit happier? do a lot of gay/bi guys like their girlfriends to use them? maybe i should just go ahead and get one on my own and whip it out one day and tell him he's trying it whether he likes it or not. i really wouldn't mind using it... heck, it would be an interesting experience to be the guy for once. though i'll feel extremely embarrassed shopping for this stuff. i wish i had a friend i could ask to get one for me... geez. maybe it would at least distract him a bit from thinking of using my butt.

sorry for sounding so miserable, i know i was probably sounding all frantic and stuff. it's not quite as bad as it sounds... i'll be ok. just sometimes i feel kinda powerless. i can't grow a penis for him, or get all broad-shouldered and hunky. it's like, how can i possibly compete with that? the only thing i have going for me is my personality, which he loves. but how powerful is the lure of the physical? that's what i'm having trouble determining in this case, 'cause i'm not sure if he's just denying his true feelings, or telling me the truth. so i get paranoid sometimes. :-\

[littlerayofsunshine]

ok hun I get a better picture now. So disregard anything I said that you don't feel applies.

But if you are interested in a strap on, here is a link to a strapless strap on called the Feeldoe (http://www.feeldoe.com/page2.html) I know some members have used it, and said its wonderful.. I have yet to purchase mine, but am sort of saving up for it.. I just use my trusty old cyberskin strap on and hubby loves it. Just look online there are so many types and styles and feels.

[zarine]

haha, yeah i saw that feeldoe thing a week ago on a website... i showed it to him and he still resisted, haha. the reply was a stubborn, "no toys". i'm debating over it... not sure i really want some rubber knob up my crotch, whether it feels nice or not. also, the trouble with this ordering online thing is i don't want a package with an embarrassing name on it arriving at my home. i'm kinda stuck living with my parents right now. and i don't want to wind up with stacks of porno advertisement junk mail arriving in my mailbox, either. it's embarrassing and sickening. i was considering asking one of my friends to order something for me. since he's always ordering all this porn and crap anyway, it won't matter if he receives packages with risque names on it and porno junk mail. and neither me nor my boyfriend want to step anywhere near those sex shops. we despise those places, i despise looking at this stuff even online, i hate the attitude the majority of people have about sex. so yeah haha, this is another obstacle we have to work thru... the embarrassment and nausea of the whole experience of trying to find something that will enhance things for us (him) in a sea of sickening messages. i already feel majorly out of place on this site because it seems like everything's so centered around fucking. but there was really no alternative. i didn't want to keep looking at a million different sites, bumble into porn sites, and wind up with internet venereal disease - a plethora of porn site viruses to crash my computer. i don't even know how to BEGIN looking for a dildo. i don't know anything about this crap, i'm utterly clueless. i couldn't care less about vibrating rubber objects, and once again there's the concern of a million pop-ups and viruses from visiting sites and stuff. so you really think he might enjoy me using a strap-on dildo once he tries it? if there's a good chance it will make him happier, i'll do it.... just gotta solve the problem of finding one with as little embarrassment as possible.

[julie]

...hello Zarine...

...i really feel for you here hun..

...mainly because you seem to be the one putting all the energy into attempting to please your man...... whilst he seems happy to keep things as they are...as in him pressuring you into anal sex.. which you very clearly state that you hate!..

...i also feel saddened at how he seems to negate your suggestions of experimenting with a strap on..it seems that as he is happy to 'fuck your butt'..despite you hating it..he sees no reason to change.

.. this doesn't seem much like a mutually satisfying intimate relationship... because your boyfriends desires seem to take priority over yours... everytime! and on no level does he appear to relate to you as a woman with as many rights, needs and desires in this relationship as he appears to take for granted for himself...his reassurance that you need not worry because he will never leave you comes across as extraordinarily arrogant from where i'm looking from..

..so in short i do believe your 'relationship' is doomed... not so much because he seems to be gay rather than bi and you are straight...but because there seems to be no relationship between you in the first place... as your boyfriend seems to be operating from a place of fear.... and is not being man enough to recognise(or care?) that his cowardice in hiding from his gay orientation in a straight relationship is causing you such deep pain and potential lasting harm..

..i'm sorry to be so blunt Zarine.... but your boyfriend seems to have many demons he is refusing to face..and i believe he is using you as the buffer to protect himself from those demons.... i hope, for both your sakes you can summon up the dignity and self love to walk away from this man you clearly care about so deeply...because if you dont i believe you will always be his buffer, protecting him from himself whilst you take all the knocks.... and although i dont even know you, from the tenderness and caring you express here...i believe you are worthy of far greater love and affection than this man will possibly ever be capable of showering you with....

...wishing you love luck and courage Zarine.....Julie :female: xx

[zarine]

you're probably right... it's ok. :-(

[Driver 8]

You can probably find some women who are married to gay men to talk to. You might look for a spouses' support group in your area - what I think you'll find is older women who married men who later came out to them as gay, often after they'd had children, and some women who married men they knew were gay because they were good friends, wanted families, and hadn't found anyone else.

But ... it really doesn't sound to me as though you have something good to build on here. What you've described sounds, to me, as though this guy wants a relationship with a woman so he can escape from the gay community and the homophobia of some of the people in his life. He seems to have a lot of inflexible requirements and your needs just don't sound like a priority to him.

You're an articulate, thoughtful woman, and I genuinely believe you can do better. I wish you luck.

[anne27]

I believe there is ALWAYS hope, but it does seem to me that you are putting forth all the effort and he's being stubborn and uncommunicative. HE'S going to have to want to improve things, too. Giving your all in a relationship where the other person isn't putting forth an effort just winds up leaving you empty.

I am the bi wife of a bi guy. He knew he was bi long before I knew I was, so I suffered a lot of the same self doubts you did in your situation. We talked through everything until we were both tired of talking. Communication is the key and if he doesn't want to compromise or discuss y'all are in a world of trouble.

My heart goes out to you. Best of luck to you both!!

[julie]

you're probably right... it's ok. :-(


hugs Zarine..xxx

[JohnnyV]

Zarine,

Maybe I can offer a different viewpoint from the others that have been posted. Everyone else gave you excellent feedback.

In your current panic, you may be focusing a lot on the negative things going on between you and him. I assume that your relationship involves many other forms of companionship and mutual support. This one point can be worked through. Just try to take a deep breath and give the relationship some room to breath.

If you love him and he loves you, and he is committed to you, then things can work out. It sounds like he has undergone a very stressful life. Some people are born into very simple, easy lives -- "I'm straight, I lost my virginity at age 17, got married at 25, had 2.6 kids, died at age 90." Others, like me, don't have it so easy. If you care about him, you may want to make a gradual transition from a love into a friendship. Or maybe as his wounds heal from his past difficulties, he can become more comfortable managing his bisexuality with your help.

I don't think you're doomed. But your love isn't going to be like anything you see in the movies. Be prepared to cut your own path.

J


ok, to tell you the truth, i don't even know where to begin my story. so i will probably just give a general idea of the situation and then just clarify as we go along. i know more than likely the response i will get to my situation is "yeah you guys are doomed", but i'm hoping maybe, just maybe there will be some good advice, or some interesting stories anyone can share with me. before i get into my own story, i'd like to say that i did research trying to find similar situations to mine. so far the only two stories i could find were this one predominantly gay man who got married to a wonderful woman, had a fairly happy sex life with her but then eventually found he still needed to have male lovers. she allows this, and they have a great relationship, but he admitted she does get jealous sometimes. the other one is that musician tom robinson who seemed to be almost completely gay and then fell in love with a woman. but that's all the details i got of that story. i couldn't find any info on how they deal with the relationship, if he needs to have male lovers on the side or not. i tried writing to him, and i just got some lousy response from someone telling me that of course he's too busy for emails and that i should go to some bisexual sites or whatever. so here i am. if anyone has some stories of successful gay-man-with-a-woman relationships, please share them with me!

i'll just give a basic rundown of my situation. my boyfriend has always liked guys. in high school he dated a couple of girls and apparently had sex with them. he states that he was attracted to their interesting personalities. but then i guess when he went off to college, he dated only guys for a few years. then rumors started going around about him and they reached his parents, who got really upset and confronted him and he denied being gay to them. some of his friends also deserted him when they learned he was gay. he also had a couple of bad experiences while dating guys that further pushed him to want to stop living "that lifestyle". he also stated that all guys care about is sex, that there's not many who really want a meaningful relationship. so he's determined not to be gay, for the sake of keeping family and friends. anyway, he revealed his story to me after a few months of talking to each other and hanging out. we had started really liking each other, and i guess he finally felt he could trust me with his secret (i really feel like i'm betraying him by getting on this site and telling the story, but i really need to talk about this or i'll go nuts. if he were more cooperative, i'd feel better, but he's not, so i really need some help here). we have a pretty good relationship, though sometimes a bit lacking in communication, especially in subjects that make him uncomfortable.

anyway, it took him a long time to even get comfortable with my body (and i'm not even really sure just how comfortable he is) and now the big fear is boredom. he said he got bored with his girlfriends. he doesn't seem to care much for the female body. i have no doubt that he does love me, but my physical traits get in the way of his sexual happiness, i'm sure. sometimes he seems into it and then other times he seems dissatisfied and wants to do my butt, which i totally hate. also, he likes to have his butt fucked, but refuses to cooperate with me and shop for a freaking strap-on dildo so i can be "his man" sometimes. he complains that that would be too kinky and that it's no good since he knows it's a fake dick anyway.

he doesn't like the idea of having a third person involved or a lover on the side, and personally, i would not want a third person involved with us unless it's someone we both care deeply about and trust. we don't need to be infected with horrible diseases and such due to the third person's sluttiness. i'm not comfortable with having sex with people out of the clear blue... i have to actually know and like and trust someone, and i don't like the idea of him having sex with just anyone because who knows where they've been? aaaanyway, he seems resistant to the idea, even if we had someone we really cared about who would be willing to satisfy his need for men. not only that, but if he WERE to have another lover, then i think it would be unfair for him to have all these sexual adventures while i'm supposed to be the ever-loving, ever-faithful dog who also has to feel unwanted, unsexy, and unsatisfied. if he is allowed to have other lovers, then i should be allowed to, also. so if he decides that he does need a guy on the side, he would need to accept the idea of me having other lovers, too. i have no idea at this point whether he'd be able to accept that. i guess i'll only find out if the situation ever crops up. and then what happens if we do have our other lovers? would our love wind up spread too thin?

everything's so confusing. he just always tells me i worry too much and that i shouldn't worry, he won't cheat on me or leave me. but it's so hard not to worry. i know that denying who you are is always a bad idea; a recipe for disaster. i'm afraid one day he'll just breakdown and go out to a club and just screw some stranger. and it just hurts to see sometimes that when i'm enjoying myself he seems unexcited and then asks for my butt. i really don't know what to do!!! it's so frustrating, especially since he doesn't seem to want to experiment a little. anyway, i'm babbling. if anyone has any suggestions, thoughts, stories, etc. i'd be grateful to hear them.

[jedinudist]

I'm one of those long winded guys, but I'll try to keep it short :)

Really, I think at this point it boils down to this - - -

It's up to each one of you, individually.

You have some very valid concerns (and I'm sure he does as well) that you both need to sit down, face to face (perhaps with a non-judgemental counselor) and calmly and lovingly talk about!

Total honesty, from each of you will help both of you decide if you should forge ahead together or go your seperate ways (as far as being lovers is concerned).

The issues he has (such as no toys or 3rd partner) that you have a problem with must be addressed frankly and calmly. The same goes for any issues you have that he has a problem with.


Before any long term plans can be made, you both must have an idea of what you want for yourselves and what your partner wants. Then you must see if you believe the both of you will find fullfilment in each other.

We wish you both well on your journey.

[DiamondDog]

Zarine,
Here is a website/organization you may want to check out.
http://www.ssnetwk.org/

good luck.

[KyGuy57]

Zarine,

My only thought is your guy is one fortunate person. He has a true love that wants to find a way to work with him on this and is open to many things. In so many relationships where one is bi/gay and the other straight it goes no where and the straight person can't handle it. I guess he will have to lose you to only appreciate you later. You are a true diamond and he better get his head together before it is too late. My wife would never be so open although she is open to the strapon as am I :). Toys are very permitted.

Good luck...you are very special

[zarine]

thank you everyone for your replies... you guys are great! a lot of what all of you are saying i have thought of myself, but then i always worry that maybe i'm just blowing things out of proportion or just not seeing things clearly. but i'm getting a lot of the same opinions. BUT, as johnny v pointed out, there ARE some good points to this relationship, and that's why there's so much of a dilemma, so much confusion. i know he does love me, and that things aren't so simple as i'm just being used for his efforts to be straight (if things started off that way, i really don't think it's that way anymore... otherwise i don't think we would have lasted this long...).




In your current panic, you may be focusing a lot on the negative things going on between you and him. I assume that your relationship involves many other forms of companionship and mutual support. This one point can be worked through. Just try to take a deep breath and give the relationship some room to breath.

If you love him and he loves you, and he is committed to you, then things can work out. It sounds like he has undergone a very stressful life. Some people are born into very simple, easy lives -- "I'm straight, I lost my virginity at age 17, got married at 25, had 2.6 kids, died at age 90." Others, like me, don't have it so easy. If you care about him, you may want to make a gradual transition from a love into a friendship. Or maybe as his wounds heal from his past difficulties, he can become more comfortable managing his bisexuality with your help.

I don't think you're doomed. But your love isn't going to be like anything you see in the movies. Be prepared to cut your own path.

J

like i said, besides the sex problem, we do have a pretty good relationship. i wasn't meaning to sound so negative, i just wanted to get the main issues out first since otherwise i'd have to write a novel. we have a lot of fun together, we share a lot of the same opinions, tastes, and interests, and are intellectually stimulating to each other. the sex isn't all bad either, we've had great times and awful times, and he's definitely come a long way in enjoying things with me and my female body since we first started (it used to be he'd lose an erection so quick, it would just flop back and forth haha). but sometimes i see him getting frustrated and bored (and then he starts the "i want your butt" thing), and i start worrying a lot. i'm afraid that maybe the underlying problem is more serious than he is making it out to be, and at times like those i feel helpless, i just don't know what to do. i don't want to get on his case about it too much, but at the same time i don't want to leave the problem neglected. i don't want it to become something that is eating him up inside. i don't want it to suddenly rear it's ugly head, even bigger than before. i just don't want him to ignore the problem. so i try to push him to help me solve things, and sometimes he might talk to me a bit and sometimes he seems like he might be considering the dildo thing, but then other times he resists discussion and changes the subject. once he starts getting stubborn i just back off so that it won't become a subject that will piss him off everytime i bring it up. it looks like i'm just going to have to get a dildo on my own and then we'll see how he feels about it when it's there in front of his face haha.

anyway, yeah i'm definitely not expecting a movie romance out of him, in fact i hate the romance in most movies... they are so fake, formulaic, and shallow. my ideas of romance are very different from the mainstream, i think. i really don't expect a lot of sappy romance and being treated like a princess.

[rosemarylu]

Here are groups that might help you:

These are on yahoo. You can search for them.

alternative path
MMOMW
CARE4MOMS

There are more groups out there but some are very negative.

I have a bi-husband and we have been married for almost 6 years. If you would like to talk please send me a private message or e-mail

rosemarylu

:)

[Bicuriousity]

All i have to say is you are a wonderful caring woman. He must mean alot to you for you to deal with this. When I say that, I mean, it's great you accept he's gay, but even more importantly you can handle some of his indecisiveness.

I think gay and bi guys make the best lovers for a woman, I just hope he is emotionally strong enough to be the man for you that he needs to be.

Best of luck. I am really impressed by your strength and loving character.

[mistymockingbird]

Darlin, I know how you feel. I was in a relationship with a wonderful man who was queer as a three dollar bill (in his words, lol). I knew when we got together he was gay. Our romantic relationship has ended, but to this day he is my very best friend because our relationship was based on way more than just sex.

Feel free to send me a private message if you'd like to talk in depth.

[macphisto]

Zarine, just a little opinion. I'm not very qualified to give them. I might be wrong on many accounts.

I think people put way too much emphasis on sex these days. Sex is just one aspect of a relationship, an important part, but not more important than any other. Love, trust, respect, money, kids, there are many more. And as you get older, you tend to replace sex with laughter, I am told.

As a recently self-admitted bi guy, I think I could probalby be sexually happier with a guy for just raw sex, but the rest of it, I don't think I could have. But then sex is a pretty emotional thing for me, I would agree with your thoughts on it. Girl vs. guy, girl always wins for me. Took me a while to realise why that was, but I guess I am maturing.

It all depends on how much emphasis you guys put on the sex. You say your boyfriend is gay, but that's a pretty heavy label to put on someone who is in love with a girl.

Your boyfriend is pretty lucky to have you. I would kill for an understanding girlfriend like yourself, so don't sell yourself short - you seem like a one in a million girl. but.... if you are happy and in love in a relationship, stick with it. People are so scared to put hard work into a relationship these days, they feel like everything should be "just perfect" - but nothing is [it's a myth disseminated by divorce lawyers :rolleyes: ]. I don't know how long you've been together, but if you live together, etc, you should know if you want to be with him. But look on the sum of the relationship, not just one part.

[OralBiGuy]

Hi Zarine.

Interesting to read of your situation. I had an excellent post, but due to a thunderstorm and exploding transformer, I got zapped - thus instantaneously lost all power here in my home. But all is well now.

Your situation is almost reverse of my own.

I've lived a so-called gay life (male-to-male) contact for more than 20 years, but, the difference is, I wanted male to female contact during that entire time. I fantasized about it, dreamnt about it, watched hetero porn, bought hetero porn magazines and well...I'm a bit of an anomoly it seems at present.

Good thing here Zarine. The people on this forum, have been most supportive and kind. I haven't experienced any comments or posts that were untoward. So you're in a good place.

Zarine, you've gone above and beyond the call of duty. Frig, I wish I HAD a girlfriend like you right now (offers warm hug). I'd be set.

All kidding aside, your situation is no doubt frustrating and very heartbreaking. I think that you should take only 1 person into account right now and that would be: yourself. You're a very special and unique woman. You've proven to me, and many others here, that you're more than: ready, willing and able. Problem is: not you. But the more that this person (boyfriend) keeps up with his comments and delaying things with you and himself, you're both going to end up I suspect, on the outs with each other.

You both can only keep this thing going for so long before it falls apart and ruins any respect you had for each other until then.

Seems to me the one person whose needs are not being met: are yours.

Love yourself first and foremost my dear. Because you have to live with youself with or without the boyfriend.

You've gone above and beyond the call of duty. I don't know too many men or women that would have done as much as you have. You are a very special woman, open-minded and obviously very loving.

The words uttered by someone else, can be powerful. The "I love you" can be like a magic spell, and can buy 'that' person some extra time, but you can only work so much mileage out of those words. OK, speak the words - but now...PROVE IT! You've proven it, now it's his turn.

Like I've said, wish I had a girlfriend like you. I'd be set!

Take care of yourself Zarine. I wish you all the best. Keep us posted, if you'd like, of how this situation progresses. My hope is, that it'll be one that truly satisfies you in the end. You're the one who is important here. ;)

Big hugs from Canada. :three:

[zarine]

bicuriousity quote: I think gay and bi guys make the best lovers for a woman, I just hope he is emotionally strong enough to be the man for you that he needs to be.

bicuriousity, why do you say that? i've heard similar statements before, but i just would like to hear your personal reasons why you think this is so. (for some reason when i hit the quote button it refuses to work, that's why i had to do the lame copy and paste job). i'm quite interested!

macphisto, i agree totally that people put too much emphasis on sex. for me, it doesn't just involve my body, it involves my spirit and emotions. if the neither of those can get involved in it, then my body has trouble enjoying it. but i know how important sex seems to be to most guys, and so my problem here is i don't know how important it's going to be to my boyfriend. he says it's not important, but i can't help but worry. it seems like most couples have to solve the problem of one of the member's gay/bi tendencies by getting 3rd persons involved. i am wondering if this will most likely become a necessity for us. if he's just stuck with me and a dildo all the time for a long time, will he eventually start to suffer? is having male lovers for him going to be the only real option?

the reason i gave him the gay label is because that's what he labels himself, and it's not an inaccurate one, considering his lack of interest in women and his awful attitude about women in general. when he starts getting on some sexist tirade, i ask him why the hell he is with me, and he just says, "well you are different, you are special" blah blah. so yeah, he doesn't otherwise have a whole lot of interest in other females. i am trying to open his eyes more about the merits of both genders, i can't tell if i'm getting thru.

"Girl vs. guy, girl always wins for me. Took me a while to realise why that was..."

so why did you find that girl wins for you?

[onewhocares]

Wow, what alot to read thru. I must express a few comments:

First, sit back and take a long deep breath, the hardest part..getting it all out is over. Coming to grips with was is inside is the first step in the right direction.

Second, like others have said, he is a very lucky man, whether he knows it or not to have a partner like yourself who is willing to all you can to try an make your relationship better.

Third, open and honest communication is key. Do I think it is the easiest thing in the world, hell no. It can really cause self-doubt, a sense of insecurity and hoping in all honesty that you have done and said the right things and knowing that you do not want to willingly hurt the other person in your life.

Fourth, finding the little extras that it takes to be involved with a bisexual can be challenging at best. I do believe, as Bicuriousity states that a bisexual and or gay man DO make the best lovers...never met one I did not adore. one who would not give me a chance. Sometimes what I thought was my not being enough woman or not good enough was in actually nothing to do with me as woman at all. Turns out, well I guess that I am a loving and nurturing lover after all.

Fifth, yes I am coming to the end, talking, like you have started her and perhpaps with a councelor with or without your partner is key. Talk, it is the most sexy and meaningful word in the dictionary. If you want or need to speak to another woman who has been in your shoes, do not hesitate to PM me.


BELLE

[Diane54]

.... Before any long term plans can be made, you both must have an idea of what you want for yourselves and what your partner wants. Then you must see if you believe the both of you will find fullfilment in each other.


I agree with Jedinudist about the long-term plans.
Sounds like you two have a great friendship and are trying to move it into a relationship that isn't working. What I have read is that he is using your friendship to hide his gay-ness from everyone else.
I would be afraid that when he gets the courage to "come out" your relationship will end, but not the friendship.
:2cents:

[JVELTRE01@SPRINTPCS.]

/QUOTE]
SWEETHEART,I FEEL FOR YOU,BUT BABE, THE FACT THAT YOUR PARTNER LIKES COCK SHOULD NEVER INDICATE TO YOU THAT YOU ARE LACKING.. IT TAKES THE STRENGTH
OF A "REAL WOMEN" (WHICH YOU SOUND TO BE) TO BE COMPLETLY INTO A MAN WHO HAS FOUND THAT HE ENJOYS THE SENSATION OF ANAL SEX. NOTHING MREALLY FEELS GOOD TO ME UP MY BOTTOM, BUT SOME PEOPLE LIKE THAT
SENSATION. I WOULD LOVE TO TALK OR CORRESPOND MY BOYDRIEND/SOMEDAY FIANCE LOVES COCK TOO.. PLEASE SEARCH INSIDE YOURSELF AND ASK YOUR SELF WHY YOU TAKE YOUR PARTNERS LOVING COCK SO PEERSONAL.I AM 45
AND I LOVE MY BOYFRIEND// i MAKE SURE THAT HE KNOWS EVERY DAY THAT I LOVE HIM FOR WHO HE IS "NOT FOR WHAT HE DESIRES."!!!! I WOUKD LOVE TO CHAT TO SHARE WITH YOU.. PLEASE KNOW WHO YOU ARE SEXUALLY AND FEEL SECURE IN THAT.. IF THERE IS ANY PLAY MAKE SURE THAT YOUR IN THE ROOM//BOUDRIES ARE"NECASSARY"
ALWAYS YOUR FRIEND JOJO/JVELTRE01@SPRINTPCS.COM

[macphisto]

Well, for me I've always had a relationship preference for women. I lived long term with a (I thought at the time) a wonderful girl. She was very feminine and it complimented my character perfectly. A ying-yang thing going on. Sexually, she had a good appetite and was adventurous. It's been like that with all my relationships. To be honest, in all that time, I thought about sex with guys very rarely. I guess I was emotionally complete so the sex part just fell into place.

I derive very little pleasure out of emotionless sex, and since I attach very little emotion to guys (that way), I could find it a little depressing. While sexually, I like the idea of being "used", it kinda clashes with my emotional side. Even one night stands with girls, I get very emotionally attached quickly and quite crushed when it doesn't work out.

It's a scary question, but you should proably ask him if this relationship is better than any he has had with a guy, and why. As for the sex sde, I don't know. Everyone here to me seems to be big into threesomes, etc. Not for me, I like monogamy. I don't have the mental or emotional capacity to do so, though I admire those who do. If I want to think about guys while I'm in a relationship, I'll jack off. It's God's little sexual safety valve! I mean, if this was a straight relationship and you found out he fancied your sister, would you be worried that it won't work out if he couldn't be with her?

If monogamy is really important to you, you should state this. If he can't hack it, look elsewhere. Heck, I think you've seen by the responses that you'd not be on the shelf long.



macphisto, i agree totally that people put too much emphasis on sex. for me, it doesn't just involve my body, it involves my spirit and emotions. if the neither of those can get involved in it, then my body has trouble enjoying it. but i know how important sex seems to be to most guys, and so my problem here is i don't know how important it's going to be to my boyfriend. he says it's not important, but i can't help but worry. it seems like most couples have to solve the problem of one of the member's gay/bi tendencies by getting 3rd persons involved. i am wondering if this will most likely become a necessity for us. if he's just stuck with me and a dildo all the time for a long time, will he eventually start to suffer? is having male lovers for him going to be the only real option?

the reason i gave him the gay label is because that's what he labels himself, and it's not an inaccurate one, considering his lack of interest in women and his awful attitude about women in general. when he starts getting on some sexist tirade, i ask him why the hell he is with me, and he just says, "well you are different, you are special" blah blah. so yeah, he doesn't otherwise have a whole lot of interest in other females. i am trying to open his eyes more about the merits of both genders, i can't tell if i'm getting thru.

"Girl vs. guy, girl always wins for me. Took me a while to realise why that was..."

so why did you find that girl wins for you?

[taz67156]

Hey Zarine,
I just read what you had at the start of this posting plus the others and it does seem like you have a problem with not knowing how to help him out with wanting another male, he also needs to understand that if you don't like anal then something else needs done, I do see alittle problem with comunication from his part as you are willing to talk about everything having to do with him but if he had another partner that was male and you wanted another partner I could see him having a problem with that if he truely loves you and like a few others have suggested try to see if he would be willing to atleast try and let you use a strap-on with him cause if he thinks there isn't any texture to them he is wrong.

[zarine]

It's a scary question, but you should proably ask him if this relationship is better than any he has had with a guy, and why. As for the sex sde, I don't know. Everyone here to me seems to be big into threesomes, etc. Not for me, I like monogamy. I don't have the mental or emotional capacity to do so, though I admire those who do. If I want to think about guys while I'm in a relationship, I'll jack off. It's God's little sexual safety valve! I mean, if this was a straight relationship and you found out he fancied your sister, would you be worried that it won't work out if he couldn't be with her?

If monogamy is really important to you, you should state this. If he can't hack it, look elsewhere. Heck, I think you've seen by the responses that you'd not be on the shelf long.

well, i haven't had to ask him if this relationship is better than any he has had with a guy... he came right out and told me one day! he stated that i treat him better than anyone else ever had, male or female. he doesn't seem interested in doing threesomes. he said he wouldn't want to share me. and i think we both find it a little too crazy. i mean, i try to imagine what it would be like and all i can imagine is that i would be waaaaaay too f*cking embarrassed! i mean, geez, i'm already enough of a wimp just with one person, i don't know how i could deal with two! i'd probably just cower under the sheets, blushing myself to death. i can't even imagine what i would do! oh god! i would definitely have to be totally comfortable with the other person if i were to EVER try that. ok, enough thinking about that. :eek: anyway, yeah he doesn't seem all that keen on doing three or having another lover. but then it seems like that is the solution most people have come up with, either having threesomes or letting the bi/gay person have lovers on the side. i'm wondering if this is always going to be the case, especially when a partner is predominantly gay. i worry that he'll go crazy just being with a girl. anyway, i'm not totally sure how important monogamy is to me... it would depend entirely on the circumstances and who's involved, and how things work between us. i dunno.

i would really like to try to see if a dildo would help spice up things for him, but he's sooo freaking stubborn about it! i don't know why! he doesn't mind fingers (which i find an unpleasant thing to do) and objects wrapped in a condom, but for some reason he gets vehement about not using a dildo! what is up with that? i just can't understand his reasoning here. does anyone have a clue why he is refusing? at times he seemed to consider it, but he would just say, "only if you get it". he didn't even want to help look at them online or anything. so he was basically leaving it all up to me. but then lately i can't even talk to him about it, and the only response i ever got was "no toys". maybe he really wants me to get one, but as long as he is not involved in the process at all? i don't know!


What I have read is that he is using your friendship to hide his gay-ness from everyone else.

yes, i have worried about this before. it was one of my main worries when we started "dating" and he revealed to me that he was gay and that he doesn't want to be gay and that he was trying to hide it from family and friends. it's even possible that he started off with that intention of finding a girl to hide his gayness, i don't know. but i don't think it's really the case. it seems like he doesn't really like to announce to people that i'm his girlfriend. if they ask, then he tells them, but otherwise he just lets people come to their own conclusions by observing us. so he's definitely not making a show of, "hey, look everyone, i'm not gay, i've got a girlfriend!" i'm not sure what to think, really. he's very confusing sometimes. :-\

[canuckotter]

anyway, yeah he doesn't seem all that keen on doing three or having another lover. but then it seems like that is the solution most people have come up with, either having threesomes or letting the bi/gay person have lovers on the side. i'm wondering if this is always going to be the case, especially when a partner is predominantly gay. i worry that he'll go crazy just being with a girl.
It's a solution that a lot of people in the bi community have come up with. For some bisexuals, it seems like having sex with one gender does nothing to relieve desire for the other. I have a friend who's like that... He and his boyfriend have sex very, very regularly, but he still feels celibate because he can't have sex with women. And he's also said he'd be just as bad the other way -- no matter how much sex he has with women, if he doesn't have the occasional man, he feels celibate. And if you ever need an example of how celibacy doesn't work, look at Catholic priests... :(

Personally, I'm quite happy being with just my wife. Well, as happy as any monogamous male is. ;) And I've met other bisexuals the same way. I've even met a woman who described herself as a lesbian because she'd only ever found one man attractive -- her husband. She didn't sleep around, and had no desire to. So even people who are predominantly gay can be perfectly happy in an opposite-sex relationship, depending on who they are and who their partner is.

How applicable this all is to your situation, I can't say. But I did want to let you know that from my personal experience, your situation isn't inherently doomed to failure. It might be very difficult, but it's not necessarily impossible.

As for the dildo... I don't know what to say. I was thinking that he might be like me and only want certain acts with certain people (if my wife tried to stick something up my butt I wouldn't talk with her for a week, for example) but if he likes other things inserted then it's probably not the act itself. It could be that in the heat of the moment he's willing to acknowledge his desires, but the rest of the time he's got a psychological block that goes, basically, "Enjoying anal penetration is gay, and gay is bad, and so I can't enjoy anal penetration." Going so far as to purchase a dildo would be a surrender to the fact that he does require that particular stimulation, which to him might represent that he's failed in his attempts to be not gay, which in turn means he's failed his family, himself, and you. Spontaneously using whatever happens to be around, he might be able to fool himself by thinking "Oh, just this one last time" or "it's a special occasion," but if he purchases a dildo... he's given up. He's failed. Or at least, that might be what he's thinking. It could just as easily by any number of other things. I'm just guessing.

[zarine]

As for the dildo... I don't know what to say. I was thinking that he might be like me and only want certain acts with certain people (if my wife tried to stick something up my butt I wouldn't talk with her for a week, for example) but if he likes other things inserted then it's probably not the act itself. It could be that in the heat of the moment he's willing to acknowledge his desires, but the rest of the time he's got a psychological block that goes, basically, "Enjoying anal penetration is gay, and gay is bad, and so I can't enjoy anal penetration." Going so far as to purchase a dildo would be a surrender to the fact that he does require that particular stimulation, which to him might represent that he's failed in his attempts to be not gay, which in turn means he's failed his family, himself, and you. Spontaneously using whatever happens to be around, he might be able to fool himself by thinking "Oh, just this one last time" or "it's a special occasion," but if he purchases a dildo... he's given up. He's failed. Or at least, that might be what he's thinking. It could just as easily by any number of other things. I'm just guessing.

hmmm.... that's a pretty darn good theory! i like it! :bigrin: so you think if i just went and got a dildo on my own, and "just happened" to have it on hand one day while errr... well you know... he might let it be used? haha

[macphisto]

Hey Zarine,

Here is an article that gave me a lot of food for thought. It's long, but well written and quite comprehensive. I don't agree with all of it, but a lot of it rings true.

http://web.onetel.com/~jnjones/bisexEDIT.html

I was also wondering, is this a constant problem for you guys, or is it only an inssue sometimes?

[Driver 8]

It could be that in the heat of the moment he's willing to acknowledge his desires, but the rest of the time he's got a psychological block that goes, basically, "Enjoying anal penetration is gay, and gay is bad, and so I can't enjoy anal penetration." Going so far as to purchase a dildo would be a surrender to the fact that he does require that particular stimulation, which to him might represent that he's failed in his attempts to be not gay, which in turn means he's failed his family, himself, and you.
Well put, Otter. I've met a number of people who enjoy kink, then hate themselves - and their partners, for indulging them - when the moment has worn off. Never underestimate the human ability to rationalize :(

[Jacqueline]

Sorry, I think you need to talk all this over with a shrink, who can show you sides to your focus you haven't considered in what you've written thus far. He is what he is and you are what you are, and until you both get down to the core issues, any band-aids are just an illusion that will come back to hurt you worse. A shrink is the only one possible of finding realistic solutions; you're in up to your neck, and at this point a professional is the best bet, unless you want to waste years listening to advice from peers and experimenting, all the time in pain. If you don't believe me, both of you sit down and write lists of what you want in your lives, assuming you never knew each other, then compare to what extent you both can, want, or are capable of meeting each other's needs.

As a woman I realize that the perfect man would have the intimate sensitivity generally found in a gay man, but there are hetero men out there who have it also; just a bit harder to find because they don't sit long in the market. And there are also many permanently closeted, slightly transgendered men, (they come in all degrees), that frankly, would astound you for how compatable, loving, respecting and appreciative they can be, with just the slightest compromize in mutual needs on occasion.

I think you sell yourself short with this guy. If he is gay then he should be who he is; not drag you through the wringer immaturely because he selfishly wants the best of both worlds, unless you want to do the same to him, which doesn't quite speak to a full, mature relationship on either of your behalfs. As a 60's flower child, I found how open relationships can exist and have had many, but at age 31 the odds are you've both never learned to non possesively accomplish it without making mistakes to the extent that a mountain of pain is faced, until you learn the "how's"; it's a tough mountain to climb in these times. Back then everybody was so much more aware of themselves and society in psychological existence and knew how to accomplish it, but AIDS ended the love generation.

You cannot maturely love anyone else unless your love yourself first, and that means responsibly loving yourself enough to address your own needs before even him entering into the mixture. Period.

It's time to detach yourself and give yourself enough space to find out what YOU need, then figure out if he meets the bill. If he is any kind of a man, he would not prevent you from doing so, only envisioning a return as a test of true love worth his respect. If he is insecure enough to inhibit your doing so, even through subtile guilt, then he is not ready for any relationship, gay or straight.

Sorry for the reality check, I could be totally off base, and you're just looking for emotional sympathy. If so, I apologize. If you are really searching for solutions, that's all I can realistically see. But in either case, I'll pray for you.

Huggugs,
Jacqueline

[zarine]

Hey Zarine,

Here is an article that gave me a lot of food for thought. It's long, but well written and quite comprehensive. I don't agree with all of it, but a lot of it rings true.

http://web.onetel.com/~jnjones/bisexEDIT.html

I was also wondering, is this a constant problem for you guys, or is it only an inssue sometimes?

yeah i already read this thing a long time ago. he's one of the people i was referring to in the original post, who met a wonderful woman and married her and then after years of good sex with her still found that he needed men to "complement" his life. so she allows him to have male lovers and he admitted she gets jealous. i wrote to him and asked him a bunch of questions, and he pretty much made it sound like the only real solution is to have male lovers for my boyfriend. he especially told me that if my boyfriend likes anal sex, it may be a problem.

i wouldn't say our problem is constant (i'm assuming you mean that he has trouble enjoying sex with my female self). he only occasionally asks to have things done to his butt, but lately his requests for my butt has been a little less than half the time (he used to not ask very often, now it's becoming kinda frequent). this is definitely not going to work if he doesn't like my vagina and only wants my butt! i mean, geez, i have a hard enough time enjoying sex thru my female parts! now they're gonna get skipped for my butt, which is totally unenjoyable? man, maybe i'm really being too optimistic. maybe this really is a disaster. i'm losing confidence. :(

[PeterH]

Hi Zarine,

(((((((((( )))))))))))
I wish you all the best of luck with your situation.

What I'm going to say will hurt, but I'm afraid it is the truth.
I'll just be plain, and sorry, blunt too.

You are fighting a hopeless cause, and you know it.

Yes sex is often overrated, but I still feel that physical attraction is an integral part of a relationship. If it's not there it's called friendship.

I also feel that since your boyfriend doesn't feel attracted to you, he is not really having a relationship with you (although you are having one with him). To him, you are his best friend. Friendship is great, but it's not the same as having a relationship.

Your boyfriend is gay and he will stay gay, whatever you try to do (if you want to hear a different point of view about that, you've come to the wrong site ;) )
I also feel that a real relationship should be experienced as such by both partners. In the end it's what inside that count, not what's outside.

I feel you should both acknowledge the truth, namely that the two of you are not having a relationship, however you're calling it.



So why are you both calling it a relationship?

For your boyfriend, having a "relationship" with you is safe. It helps in avoiding the pain of coming out, esp acceptance by loved ones. But it doesn't solve anything. He seems to suffer from internalized homophobia, and so can't accept himself for who he is, but that doesn't make him straight. He is gay, and will be gay for the rest of his life.

As for you: if you're a bit like me, you feel guilty about sex. Zarine, I think I can relate to what you are saying. I often feel that sex is overrated, but I also know that I have huge feelings of guilt about my sexuality.
So even though I feel that society overrates sex, I know that I often underrate it.
But when all's said and done, I really feel that sex is ok, that sex (attraction, the game of - mutual - seduction, physical intimacy), with the right person, is a beautiful thing.
It is an integral part of a relationship, and I think you deserve a real relationship, with someone who loves you, and thinks you're very attractive.

I think it may help you to try to answer the following questions:
1) How do you feel about it when a man feels attracted to you, and why (lust, guilt, ...)? Is that reasonable?
2) How would you feel about it if this relationship broke up (guilt, fear, ...) and why? Is that reasonable?


I hope this was of some use to you. I honestly wish you to have a great love life,

PeterH

PS sorry for being so blunt

[zarine]

Well put, Otter. I've met a number of people who enjoy kink, then hate themselves - and their partners, for indulging them - when the moment has worn off. Never underestimate the human ability to rationalize :(

ugh, this is getting really confusing... the reason i would like a dildo for us is because i would think it would make things much easier and safer than using objects lying around, and i hate using my fingers (ewww *shudder*), even if i do have a condom on them, it's still a yucky sensation (not to mention cuts off all circulation!). so if he thinks that using a dildo is a huge leap in kinkiness from fingers or objects, and then will hate himself and me for using a dildo, then that would mean i'd be stuck using the other two anyway!

aww, screw it! considering a lot of the opinions on here seem to be that he's a cowardly, selfish shithead who's using me for escaping gay life and etc, i guess it couldn't make things all that much worse if i use a dildo on him. if i use it and it makes our relationship crumble further when the sensation makes him realize he needs men more than me or some other reason, or if it doesn't help him enjoy sex more with me, then it will just basically be speeding up the inevitable anyway or make the inevitable more obvious, so time will be saved. so i'll just get one and see what happens. if this relationship is doomed, it's doomed either way. i'll have the dildo as a souvenir. yeehaw.

but somehow, even though i do agree with some of the negative opinions on here, at the same time i feel that things aren't quite as simple as that. that this is much more complex than just his goals of hiding his gayness. if i had felt that that was all he was after, i would have broken up with him a long time ago. but there are many things that make me hesitate, that seem to say otherwise, and i wonder if maybe i'm just being too optimistic and being foolish for believing in him. i know i've paid a major price for believing in other people before. it's made me very paranoid about this relationship since the beginning and i always doubt myself for trusting him to do the right thing (for the both of us). so i have so many of my own issues, also, all this doubt. doubting whether to trust him, doubting whether to trust my own paranoid instincts, doubting whether to trust my too-big heart which tells me that he's not only after being pseudo-hetero, doubt about his motives, blah blah. i'm just very confused. i don't want to end a good relationship that only has some sexual problems, just because i'm overly paranoid that he's going to do me wrong like other people. i don't want to continue the relationship if it's worse than i think, and i'm just dragging it out because my sappy little heart is saying that he really does love me. ugh whatever.

[billy_campbell]

Wow, lot of good questions and good answers. I will try to address only one issue since it is something that I experienced. That is his reluctance to let you use a strap-on on him. I always wanted to have a lady use one on me but was too afraid to asked. Finally I had one used on me and I completely enjoyed it. Many times I masturbate thinking about someone using it on me but I still found it difficult at times to ask the lady to use one. Even asking a lady who has use on on me in the past was difficult. I even went as far as to buy one for a lady who one night told me she would do me if I had one, but then over a year went by before I showed it to her.

My point here is I wanted to be done with one, ladies wanted to do me but I still was reluctant to do it. It was only when the woman forced the issue that I did it. I have since gotten over that fear. Maybe he has that fear and maybe you should just set the situation up where he sort of feels you are making the decision for him and letting him know it is okay for him to do and that it really excites you to do it to him. Hope this makes sense?

[zarine]

Wow, lot of good questions and good answers. I will try to address only one issue since it is something that I experienced. That is his reluctance to let you use a strap-on on him. I always wanted to have a lady use one on me but was too afraid to asked. Finally I had one used on me and I completely enjoyed it. Many times I masturbate thinking about someone using it on me but I still found it difficult at times to ask the lady to use one. Even asking a lady who has use on on me in the past was difficult. I even went as far as to buy one for a lady who one night told me she would do me if I had one, but then over a year went by before I showed it to her.

My point here is I wanted to be done with one, ladies wanted to do me but I still was reluctant to do it. It was only when the woman forced the issue that I did it. I have since gotten over that fear. Maybe he has that fear and maybe you should just set the situation up where he sort of feels you are making the decision for him and letting him know it is okay for him to do and that it really excites you to do it to him. Hope this makes sense?

yes, that makes sense, thank you! well, i've made my final decision. whether this relationship is pure crap or actually a good one, whether he secretly wants me to use a dildo or not, whether it's way too kinky or not, no matter what the freakin' circumstances, i'm getting a dildo! i will get one, tell him he's trying it and i don't want to hear any complaints, end of story. then we'll see what happens after that. :bigrin:

[JohnnyV]

Zarine,

Your last post is the smartest one, and I am rooting for you. You are the one living the situation, and you and he are complicated people with many facets that we as faceless forum icons can't possibly know.

Men who have had sex with men and who get in relationships with women are easy to judge, caricature, belittle, oversimplify, condemn, condescend to, dismiss, devalue, hate, loathe, smother in pity, jump to conclusions about, and preach at. In the beginning stages of my love with the woman I'm still married to (7 years +), we had some tough questions, and many third parties offered negative, pessimimstic appraisals similar to what people have written above.... The pessimists were all proved wrong. My wife and I are very much in love and have built a great life together.

When you are one of the parties involved in a relationship that involves real love, affection, commitment, and shared experiences, of course you can't resort to any of these snap judgments.

This may seem out of line, but I think you need to carve out your own path with this man, and define a relationship that suits both of you. The opinions of strangers may be editorially interesting but in the end this is your life situation and you have to stay focused on the specifics of you, him, and what you have. It might be good for you to read everything on this thread one last time, and finally to put it behind you, never open the thread again. I once got in a discussion on a Salon.com listserv in which my life was bared for intense scrutiny from strangers. Lots of remote advice made me seem like a dysfunctional self-hating faggot and my wife-to-be like an abused and deceived victim. I remember so clearly the day I read the last posting, and then deleted myself from the listserv and never went back again. My wife and I were much the better for it. You've gotten enough feedback to go back to him and make a reasonable choice.

Lots of love,
J

[deremarc]

Hi to all. I found this discussion while searching for information on the internet, trying to decide whether or not my husband is gay or bisexual. I have found very few places where this is discussed and am sincerely looking for help.

I would love to hear what insight someone who is bisexual can give me.

I was best friends with this man that I am seeing for 3 years prior to dating, and have now been married to him for a year. I thought I knew him very well. It appears that I do not.

Basically, without going into great detail, I have found gay porn on his computer, he has joined sites, such as squirt, which is a site for guys to hook up with other guys. He also has chatted with other guys and has had cybersex which was left as a record in his archives. (I found this all out after we were married, but all of this happened before the marriage.)

Now, since I have found out this information, all I find is gay porn, or sometimes he will join a "gay" site for chat. As soon as I find out about this, he stops and tells me he loves me, and wants to be with me for the rest of our lives.

I have always believed that everyone is entitled to their privacy. I am now going against what I believe, and snooping on him. What tipped me off, was we were at his computer looking at stuff together, when a chat im showed up from a guy. I x'd it out several times, but the guy kept sending im's. The last one I did read and the im referenced anal sex.

I found this a few month's into our marriage. He is truly a great guy. Fun loving, sweet, considerate, smart and great to my kids. I love him wholeheartedly.

The conversations we have had about this are extremely painful and gutwrenching for both of us. He adamantly denied everything at first. Only when presented with facts, in the manner of computer archives, did he come clean. He then swore that all of this was in the past. That this guy was just someone he used to talk to, before we were married.

He finally admitted that before we were a couple he had very casual sex encounters with men. The kind where you hook up on a site and just meet for sex. (And, I know so little about this subject, that I am sure I will come off as silly...but he only recieved head from guys or was the "top"...does this make a difference in things? He says that he would never perform oral sex on a guy or have anything in his bum. He says he doesn't want a relationship with a guy. I am so confused. In my opinion, sexual orientation is about being sexually attracted to a member of the same sex...not about who does what to whom.)

He gave me many conflicting reasons for the fact that he had sexual encounters with men. He said at one point he thought he might be gay, he tried the lifestyle and found out he wasn't. I could accept that, if he didn't continually go back to "guys" as we call it in our household (because we dare not call it gay or bi...he flips out). If he found out he wasn't gay, I would have thought that would have been the end of it.

He also told me that it was just a quick and easy blowjob. That he is highly sexed, and that sex in our small community was hard to come by. Again, this sounds plausible, to a degree. Would a truly straight guy get a blow job from a guy if no one would know? I expect so. But, if he is now having lots of great sex with me, then he would no longer be looking to guys for that, right?

And, as far as the sex goes, we have sex all the time, sometimes several times a day. We both give and seem to enjoy giving oral sex, i enjoy anal sex as much as he does, he pays attention to my breasts...which all makes me think he must be bi, and not gay...otherwise the sex with me would not be great right?

I don't think that he has actually had physical contact with guys since this came out. What I do know, is that we will fight when I found out he has been active again, and I will threaten to leave him if he can't be honest and talk about it with me, and he will say that it is over. But, give it a few months, and we are right back where we started.

I understand how difficult it would be for him to come out, given the small, conservative, religious area in which we live. I am not asking that he bare his soul to the world, just to me.

I don't think that being bi or gay, makes you more likely to cheat. If you are a cheater, you are no matter what your orientation may be. I do think, though, that if my husband desires sex with men, that is a need I can't fulfill or compete with. I do think he would be more likely to cheat with a man, than with a woman. I am straight myself, but I know if I were "forced" by society to have a relationship with a woman, I would be very likely to cheat on her with a man, simply because she would not be able to fulfill those very basic needs and desires of mine.

I think that the potential for him to cheat, if he desires men is great. I don't worry about him with other women. We have an awesome sex life, we connect emotionally and intellectually. Most affairs with the opposite sex, are for sex or connection. I think sex with men would go beyond that for him, and just be something he needs because of who he is.

Our biggest problem, is that he lies about what he does, and hides everything. I would love to have an open honest discussion about this whole issue. I understand him being afraid to do that, but I have told him (and shown him) over and over again, that I love and respect him no matter what.

The problem is I don't know if he is bi or what. He says he is NOT GAY! It makes him so angry to discuss it. He blames me for him repeatedly going back and joining those sites...he says it is because I don't trust him. Or, if I find something on the computer (which he is very very good at hiding now), he says it was just habit. Continual excuses, because, of course, it is NOT because he wants sex with men.

I have even told him that if he does have this desire for men, and wants to be with me for the rest of our lives, we will deal with it. I have told him I would be willing to do threesomes with him and another man. That as long as I know and he uses protection with other people, then we can probably work it out.

I am desperately seeking information. I would like to hear stories from men who hid their orientation from their wives or girlfriend and maybe finally came out. Is it inevitable that he will want a man eventually? Is this desire so strong that he will "slip" and end up having sex with another man if the opportunity arises?

What can I, as his wife, do to help him? If he is truly attracted to men, he must be miserable. And, I know he is miserable sometimes, he will get very depressed. Living a lie will do that to you.

I think I am understanding and easy to talk to. I would never betray him to anyone else. I would still love him no matter what.

I just think that I deserve to know what kind of relationship I am actually in, so that I can make my own choices on whether to stay or go. And I also need to know that I can trust him, that he will be honest with me. Because right now, I am so worried about it and so upset. I worry that if he hides the fact that he watches gay porn (which I would willingly watch with him or not mind him doing as long as he didn't treat it as a dirty little secret) and hides the fact that he joins gay chat sites, that it is a little bitty step to hiding meeting men for sex.

Once, when he was depressed, he told me that he thought I would make him a better person, that I could save him from his bad side. I truly think he may be bi, or homosexual, and this is what he wanted me to "save" him from.

I think that it is something he doesn't want in his life, but he cannot escape it because the desire is so strong.

I truly want to help him. I wish he would open up to me. I want to see him happy. And, I also want to see myself happy too.

I don't want to be the wife who is being duped. I think honesty and trust are vital to any relationship. But, I also understand why he may not feel he can be honest with me. Or, maybe he doesn't want to be honest with himself?

Is there anyone out there that can tell me how to approach him? How to deal with this situation? Are there support groups for women that don't know...as opposed to groups for women whose husbands ARE gay?

Any men that have been through this that would be willing to give me advice?

Actually, I will take any advice at all.

I love him, I don't want to leave him, but I am so scared that I am going to end up with him leaving me anyway for a guy, or that he will have sexual encounters with men without my knowledge.

[canuckotter]

aww, screw it! considering a lot of the opinions on here seem to be that he's a cowardly, selfish shithead who's using me for escaping gay life and etc
Eek! I hope I haven't given the impression that's what I think of him! :eek:

People are incredibly complex creatures. Even someone raised by rational, kind, loving parents, in a loving, caring environment, is going to have their own quirks and foibles. Your boyfriend was raised by parents who taught him to hate himself. Having a few hangups is hardly surprising. ;)

Your boyfriend does have issues, yes. They can be overcome. A good shrink could be very beneficial, but it's not necessary if you two aren't comfortable going that route. Just make sure you don't let yourself fall into the role of being your boyfriend's therapist by default; that's not a healthy relationship. But neither is your current relationship. Have you heard the saying, "You can't be happy with someone else until you're happy being alone"? It's true. You sound pretty strong and confident, and I'm sure in many ways your boyfriend is too, but he needs to come to grips with who he is before he can be happy with you -- and until that happens, your relationship will be bumpy.

Bumpy, by the way, isn't the same as impossible. Your relationship will only work as long as you're both committed to it, but if you are both committed and prepared to work together, there's always hope. :) As the saying goes... Where there's a will there's a way.

[canuckotter]

What can I, as his wife, do to help him? If he is truly attracted to men, he must be miserable. And, I know he is miserable sometimes, he will get very depressed. Living a lie will do that to you.
Talk to jedinudist. He has personal experience being that man. If anyone on here has insight into this situation, it'll be him.

(I had a much bigger post written up, but realistically, that was the only important part.)

[zarine]

Eek! I hope I haven't given the impression that's what I think of him! :eek:

People are incredibly complex creatures. Even someone raised by rational, kind, loving parents, in a loving, caring environment, is going to have their own quirks and foibles. Your boyfriend was raised by parents who taught him to hate himself. Having a few hangups is hardly surprising. ;)

Your boyfriend does have issues, yes. They can be overcome. A good shrink could be very beneficial, but it's not necessary if you two aren't comfortable going that route. Just make sure you don't let yourself fall into the role of being your boyfriend's therapist by default; that's not a healthy relationship. But neither is your current relationship. Have you heard the saying, "You can't be happy with someone else until you're happy being alone"? It's true. You sound pretty strong and confident, and I'm sure in many ways your boyfriend is too, but he needs to come to grips with who he is before he can be happy with you -- and until that happens, your relationship will be bumpy.

Bumpy, by the way, isn't the same as impossible. Your relationship will only work as long as you're both committed to it, but if you are both committed and prepared to work together, there's always hope. :) As the saying goes... Where there's a will there's a way.

no, no, you did not give me that impression that that's what you think of him. i'm referring to other posts. and in a way, yeah they are right. he can be a cowardly, selfish shithead. but that's not the only side to him.

yeah his parents are all about achievement and high standards and all. tons of pressure to do great in school, and be a money-making success. tons of pressure to be "normal". the shrink thing may not be an option. his DAD is a psychiatrist! not only that, but he told me his dad gave him a lecture... his dad used to be "gay" but somehow overcame it. his dad lectured him that his liking for guys is just a "phase". so i guess he is hoping that maybe that is true. and i have read that some people go thru phases in their lives where they desire one or the other gender. but i think that really depends on the person. somehow i doubt he's just going thru a phase. anyway, i don't think we really need a shrink, and i know he won't want to see one and i don't either. i don't think things are serious enough quite yet for drastic measures.

[canuckotter]

not only that, but he told me his dad gave him a lecture... his dad used to be "gay" but somehow overcame it.
Ouch. So his dad is passing down his own issues to his son. :(

[Driver 8]

...but he only recieved head from guys or was the "top"...does this make a difference in things?
This is just my opinion - but I think you'll find it's a widely-held opinion.

(1) It doesn't make a difference at all.

(2) But some guys feel it makes them less gay to perform only certain sex acts.

(3) And a lot of guys claim they only perform the less-gay sex acts because they think that will give people a better opinion of them.


Our biggest problem, is that he lies about what he does, and hides everything.

I think you're right. I wish you the best of luck, but I think some of the effort to fix this will have to come from him, and that may not be forthcoming.

[PeterH]

aww, screw it! considering a lot of the opinions on here seem to be that he's a cowardly, selfish shithead who's using me for escaping gay life and etc, i guess it couldn't make things all that much worse if i use a dildo on him. if i use it and it makes our relationship crumble further when the sensation makes him realize he needs men more than me or some other reason, or if it doesn't help him enjoy sex more with me, then it will just basically be speeding up the inevitable anyway or make the inevitable more obvious, so time will be saved. so i'll just get one and see what happens. if this relationship is doomed, it's doomed either way. i'll have the dildo as a souvenir. yeehaw.

but somehow, even though i do agree with some of the negative opinions on here, at the same time i feel that things aren't quite as simple as that. that this is much more complex than just his goals of hiding his gayness.

Hi Zarine,

I knew I was being hard on both you and your boyfriend when I wrote what I did, and I know that things are never simple. I only give my impression, based on what you write, and I may be very wrong in my judgement. If that is the case, you have my full apologies

I really admire the courage and faithfulness that you are showing by trying to make your relationship work. Any guy who gets a girlfriend like that should consider himself very, very lucky. If you think it is worth the effort, even if things should fail in the end, then that is what you should do.
My worry is that you should loose your self esteem by doing things you don't really want to do just to save your relationship - that you loose your sense of dignity, and that you are spending time on a relationship that cannot be fulfilling (in my view), as it misses a key ingredient, namely mutual attraction.
The first is far more important than the latter.

Of course people do have relationships based on mutual regard and respect, without the attraction, and they can work reasonably well (think of arranged marriages).
But is that what you and he are seeking in a relationship? Do the two of you really want to settle for what you have now, for as long as you both shall live??? Would you loose what you have now, if you decided just to be friends?

I sympathise with the painful time that you're going through and I really hope things will turn out in the best way that they possibly can.

PeterH

[holybane]

Okay, I've been reading all this for like an hour and it's very interesting but when I found out there was a page two I just kinda skipped around cause I've got an appointment soon :). Anywho, I'm a bi male who's in a relationship with a straight woman. I don't know if anyone has brought this up but I think it might help you. My girlfriend and I have been together for a little over a year and for the past six months she's known I was bi and had other fantasies that sometimes I wonder if I should've told her. She is not near as open as you and sometimes I wonder if she resents my openness but she loves me and accepts it. Getting to the point now, I thought about experimenting with other people and she left me for it, for two and a half hours I cried until I went and tried to get her back. It worked, but she's afraid and jealous and worried. She has an extremely difficult time coping and I see that although she is very different from you, the same feelings are there.

You want him to enjoy your body, and she's afraid I don't enjoy hers. I do enjoy hers of course, I'm more straight than gay but sometimes it's hard. Sometimes I lose and erection during sex (sometimes we fall down or hurt each other but sometimes it's just something else) and she gets really upset and cries and screams and is really hurt. You have to tell him to be open with you, you have to make him tell you everything or like they all said, you're going to end up with someone else. If you truly really love him then make him tell you, and try the dildo, he'll probably like it. I would but my gf's still unsure about that.

Mostly just be aware that I'm kinda coming from his angle here. My parents and friends don't know I have gay tendencies, and they'd probably be very upset if they knew, my friends would probably stop being my friends, and my dad would kill someone, but it's not about that. He has to admit it to you, and himself, and just let it be. My gf won't do threesomes or have people on the side, and I respect that, he should respect what you want and if he doesn't think he can please you or come out with who he is, then you need to leave. Sex isn't everything, but the closeness to the person you love that you feel during it, is closer than almost anything else. Consider it, that's all I have to say, and as I hope for my own relationship to continue, I hope for yours.

[DarrynSami]

After reading through this very interesting thread, I thought I would post what comes to mind. Many people said that communication is the key, but the way I see it is that communication is only one tool in a relationship. The communication has to lead to actions that improve your situation before anything really is accomplished. It seems you are interested in trying out several things that may improve your relationship and he is not!

He may come around some day and decide some changes are necessary and he might not. You can not depend on him changing his mind some day. You must decide if the relationship, the way it exists now, is what you are willing to live with for a long time.

Its seems you are not willing to stand still and I think your idea to buy a dildo and push things to see what happens is a good one. Either he will come around and decide to try out various options to find what is better for the both of you or you will end up being friends instead of lovers.

I myself grew up in a very predjudiced straight home and never thought about a man until I married a bi woman.. over time we have communicated, tried many new things, some we liked and continue to do and others we chalk up to experience and let go. To cut to the chase we are a very happy and comfortable couple who are both bi.

[zarine]

Hi Zarine,

I knew I was being hard on both you and your boyfriend when I wrote what I did, and I know that things are never simple. I only give my impression, based on what you write, and I may be very wrong in my judgement. If that is the case, you have my full apologies

I really admire the courage and faithfulness that you are showing by trying to make your relationship work. Any guy who gets a girlfriend like that should consider himself very, very lucky. If you think it is worth the effort, even if things should fail in the end, then that is what you should do.
My worry is that you should loose your self esteem by doing things you don't really want to do just to save your relationship - that you loose your sense of dignity, and that you are spending time on a relationship that cannot be fulfilling (in my view), as it misses a key ingredient, namely mutual attraction.
The first is far more important than the latter.

Of course people do have relationships based on mutual regard and respect, without the attraction, and they can work reasonably well (think of arranged marriages).
But is that what you and he are seeking in a relationship? Do the two of you really want to settle for what you have now, for as long as you both shall live??? Would you loose what you have now, if you decided just to be friends?

I sympathise with the painful time that you're going through and I really hope things will turn out in the best way that they possibly can.

PeterH

no, no, it's ok... i don't mean to sound angry about the negative opinions. they are all things that i have thought about on my own, and things that worry me a lot and i was expecting to hear these same opinions when i started this thread. in fact, they are very possible and i'm not disagreeing with them completely or anything. but i am saying that i don't believe things are quite as negative as they seem because it's more complicated than what i have described. heck, i tend to think he's a cowardly, selfish shithead a lot of the time! but as it is with all people, there's also his good side, his good points, and i just don't want to ignore those. it is the reason i'm so torn. besides his being selfish and cowardly, and his problem with not being very physically attracted to me, we have a pretty good connection and much affection. but should all the negative opinions about him be absolutely true, i will be prepared for that possibility because i have tossed those ideas around in my head and i know that it's very possible and the good things about our relationship might be a lie. but for right now i will just follow my heart a bit, and see if i can trust its intuitions that he is sincere.

well, there's only so much i can tolerate of doing so much for any one person. letting him fuck my butt is going to be pretty much ended unless i'm feeling in a generous or indifferent mood. i find the experience simultaneously gross-feeling and painful, so i really don't want to suffer anymore just to make him happy. if it really bothers him and he leaves me for it, then that just really means that this need is more powerful than love, or that maybe he doesn't love me as much as he claims, and so it's best that we go our separate ways. i did what i could, i tried anal sex a bunch of times to see if i could enjoy it at all and to make him happy sometimes, but it seems like it just feels worse and worse each time, so i can't go on with it. if this angers him and my health isn't important to him then he really doesn't care about me.

anyway, i will be ok. i'm feeling more optimistic lately. he's been very affectionate and loving and just seems to want to spend a lot of time with me. he's even been expressing worry that i would leave him for someone else! i guess because i tend to have guy friends, i dunno. anyway, i'm just waiting to see what will become of the dildo experiment. i ordered one a few days ago and i'm waiting impatiently for it to arrive so i can see what will result when i present it to him, haha.