I need some enlightenment

[jennylynne]

This is a question for all the guys here... Why do MOST guys find 2 women together to be so hot but 2 guys together to be like the worst thing ever? I've seen so many guys get angry and go into that whole macho "I'm not gay" thing. I'm just trying to understand this. Anyone care to help?

[Basin_Bouy]

I for one love watching both make love to each other

[Long Duck Dong]

speaking only for myself, I find the shared intimacy between two ladies to be very intense and it can be either passionate or soft, flowing and very sensual... and its that, that can make or break a porn vid for me..... so my understanding of things in regards to myself, is less about the sexual aspects and more about the thinking of people and so I do not have to see two women fully naked in the middle of a bed, in order to be stopped in my tracks.....

I have seen some guys in vids that took * gay * love making to a whole new level and by that, I am talking about 2 males that were very sensual and expressive with their hands about mouths... it was amateur porn from the 90's, a video called black and white featuring two males.. and while they did have sex in that scene, the camera was not right in the center of the action, it was near one guys shoulder looking down his body while he was being penetrated and so on......

what you may want to play close attention to, is the whole * I am not gay thing *... most guys that are like that, also will not refer to their partners as bi / lesbian either, but they will if it comes to other women, its something that I have noticed many times myself...... it may be different in the social circles that you move in as I am from a different country and a town of around 50k where if a person gets a bed rep, they quickly find themselves on the outer fringes of the LGBT circles.....

I generally hang with more accepting and tolerant people now than I used to and most of them are LGBT or lgbt friendly so there is not as much of the * fear of being gay * aspect with the people I associate with... this site used to be overflowing with them, sighs those were the days, lol... some of my friends still talk about the * macho man * scene where the guys are not * gay * but will accept a BJ as long as no body knows or top somebody *.... and some of the same guys are vehemently anti woman on woman sex... one of my old workmates dropped his partner cos she was bisexual and wanted to have a 3some with him and another woman.....

my sister was a bisexual/lesbian and her partner was a lesbian, they both knew about me and there were times that they talked about male on male sex was considered kinda hot amongst their lady friends and there were regular discussions about what males in the middle of passionate love making, may just attract a lady or two.....lol
few of them were into the whole leather / bear scene, apparently it had a lot to do with the whole macho man ego thing, the whole too manly to be a man thing, is not what interested or attracted the ladies, it was more along the lines of what the ladies liked, which was a male at their * mercy * as tongues, fingers, hands etc, came into play......

personally, I do find a lot of porn to be sterile and dull, amateur porn is better in a lot of cases, there needs to be a lot of subtle emotionally interaction, no posing, camera in so tight that the actors have to fuck around the camera and I would much rather not see all the action as its easier to focus on how the person is feeling, wanting, needing, desiring and craving rather than what they can feel in them.. and thats regardless of the gender of the people.....

I would not go so far as to say that its social taboo etc... as a lot of the younger generations are saying that two women are hot, but they themselves are not interested in being with another male, it does nothing for them, and thats a reflection of how much the mindset and attitudes of the younger generation differ from the understanding of a lot of the older generations that still living in the past..... and there are a lot more people that are open to the idea of same sex interactions... the local LGBT youth group have 1 1/2 times the people that the older LGBT group have... most of the younger people are bi, most of the older group are lesbian / gay

so to me, it all depends on the circles you move in, the people you associate with etc as to the shift in attitudes.... tho i dare say that if you went to a gay mans club, you would find that the atittudes would be dfferent to a lesbian ladies club, in regards to what is hot and what is not lol

[fredtyg]

I'd say the vast majority of guys that claim to find m2m porn disgusting are either trying to hide the fact they've done it themselves, or trying to convince themselves they're not queer. That some will claim they find f2f hot is simply a way of seeming straight yet still being able to watch same sex relations.

That's along the same line as what we've seen in the news where some of the most vocal in denouncing gays often turn out leaning that way themselves.

[Swirl]

This is a very good question and topic. I'm interested to see the responses it gets.

I agree with posters talking of repressed desires. A recent test I read about connected electrodes to, among other places, genitals. The subjects were not told the real reason for the test. They were asked at some point how they felt about homosexuality. Later they were shown video's of homosexual sex, and it turns out that the most anti-gay subjects had dicks that told another story.

I really blame a good bit a societal pressure/conditioning/indoctrination.

Why do I love f2f? I'm not even totally certain what is so appealing to me about it. There are dynamics. One reason I've heard stated and agree with some is that men get to watch two women instead of one. Simplistic? Yes. But I love the female form (and function) and will gladly watch just one. Here's one that is far more complex. There is the perception (conditioning again) that a woman must resist a man generally, and lord knows I've met enough resistance to almost feel that women would rather not...EVER. Follow? But how now lesbian? At least in f2f porn, which of course, and sadly, is produced mostly for men, there is a 'gung-hoe (snicker) let's go' vibe going on. That is appealing to men particularly when there are NO OTHER MEN AROUND. Follow? They are fully into sex, and there's no competition. Surely I can sneak in on this. Make no mistake; getting to join in at some point is part of many a man's fantasy. Again, we're talking porn (fantasy) and what appeals therein. Here's yet another, which again seems to be a mechanism of conditioning, or, on the other hand, could be the bisexual in me or both. I love the sensuality of f2f porn. Men can be sensual surely, but we're trained as brutes. Straight porn (for men) almost always evolves into bang fests. F2f doesn't have to (though it usually does in porn for men). That it doesn't have to may allow us to engage sensuality without making an excuse for feeling less masculine.
Gobbledygook much? hehe.

What's the prob with m2m then? Clearly my opinion is conditioning again. I can't tell you how often it is drummed into a males life from very early till...forever not to be a punk, poot-butt, sissy, fag ad nauseam. It is truly difficult to subvert this. Perhaps we're making some strides here lately, eh? Uganda? not so much. Anyway, it took well into my adult life before I even fully accepted my own bisexuality much less the ability to accept gay porn. Imagine what it must be like for str males? It took a very long time, but I can clearly remember allowing myself to go for it with gay porn. It was another part of my acceptance of who I was that I had conditionally blocked off. And that's sad, because I was missing great stuff. However, even now, while I love m2m porn, it's for entirely different reasons. I am not nearly as enamored with the male form (muscle men not withstanding) as I am with female; it is almost entirely about the sex. This mirrors the type of bisexual I am btw.

I'm running out of steam here, but let me also say that the most charming thing in the world to me is women who like gay porn. Once again it simply defies conditioning and, more to the point, means that they could not only accept my bisexuality, but revel in it. And to hear them discuss why they like it...heaven:angel:

I love being bi because it allows me to scream at least to myself, 'IT'S ALL JUST SEX'

[kitten]

In general, I have found that men tend to be stimulated by the visual means much easier than women. Women tend to be more emotional.
IN GENERAL.
I myself am very visual but it is the most stimulating for me when there is sensual as well as sexual activity.
My husband - pure sex of any kind and the more visual and loud the better.
He would look at the pictures and I would read the articles of adult magazines and then we both got what we wanted.

[Dog62]

Fredtyg's reply is probably, in my opinion, the dumbest reply I have ever read.

I think Kitten is 100% right about men being more visually stimulated than women. That is why "most" porn is created for men. And watching 2 women together is simply the most erotic thing I have ever seen. I had an ex g/f who tied me to a chair as she and a g/f put on one hell of a show. I came all over myself just from watching them and listening to their teasing and pleasing each other and taunting me. Now, that was back in my younger days when I was exactly like jennylynne described, All for the f/f sex and 100% "I'm not gay". Unlike Fredtyg's silly accusation, I had no secret desires and had never done anything even remotely bisexual in my life. I also thought gay porn was disgusting.

Many years later the same lady "coerced" me into suckng another guy for her viewing pleasure. I agreed to do it strictly to return a tiny bit of the pleasure that she had given me. She never denied anything I ever asked, and went into each of my fantasies with an enthusiasm that actually made me feel ashamed when she asked for one thing. I refused her fantasy for years and finally agreed mostly out of a sense of guilt and a little coercion.

Now I ask myself: Damn, why did I wait so long? I realize how many fun times I passed up due to my narrow mindedness.

She and I are no longer together, but when we were we played exclusively with an ex b/f of hers. I spoke with her last Friday and she asked if I had seen or heard from him lately. I told her that he was stopping by on Monday. She asked if I was going to swallow his load and when I answered she commented that she had turned me into quite a cum whore. We were still laughing when she said she wished that she was closer and could come join in. Oh, don't I wish so too.

I still love women and have no desire for a relationship with a guy that anything other than sexual. I think that many men, as they age, pass the stage that jennylynne is speaking of and become more adventurous, something that women seem to have been doing for a long long time.

[elian]

I think some men assume that one of them must be submissive to be in a gay relationship and men are taught not to appear weak. In some cultures for example a man receiving a blow job is being dominant and that is seen as a sign of power, but the man who gives a blow job to another man is considered to be weak. Men are also perceived to have unearned power and privilege in a patriarchal society - homophobic people can't understand why another man would give up their supposed position of power to allow themselves to be treated like a "woman" (..eww..cuties !?) There are also some guys who don't wash very well, etc. Some are turned on or off by the coarse body hair.. I have bad breath and II used to not be a big fan of open mouth kissing with either sex, but I'm trying very hard to change my mind. As sexist as this may sound women are also capable of having multiple orgasms, and although men can also do that (with anal sex, etc.) I don't think we're really built for it the way women are. I am attracted to both, but more attracted to a couple with love in their eyes. About homophobia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgeEabaZnqw Life is hard for both men and women, we are all fighting a hard struggle to understand. Still I have to wonder myself why some men treat women the way that they do. Do they resent or fear their mothers? Aggh, Gawd - now I sound like that cracker Sigmund Fraud.. This stupid parser is collapsing CR/LF's ... now my post looks like one big run-on sentence.

[R. R. Wayne]

Two men or two women engaged in sex will do it for me. both scenarios make my cock hard.

[tenni]

I've been travelling all day and so I hope that my answer makes some sense. In my opinion, f/f sex is acceptable to men. We are socialized to appreciate the female form from a very young age. Boys wonder what is under those clothes, seek out their dad’s or older brother’s porn. I don’t think men really look at two women having sex as gay. As some have said, the belief is that men see this as visually stimulating because they are women ...and naked too boot. We have been socialized to see that as pleasurable and as some have said...two naked women and no man around means that it is for ME..lol

They do not connect it to the same thing as two men having sex. That is the masculinity taboo. Men are socialized about their masculinity by mostly negatives. Men will tell you want a real man doesn’t do more so than what he does. Many guys will check out a naked guy in the gym locker but we are socialized not to make eye contact with another man let alone have him think that we are looking at his dick. Big male masculinity taboo.

I agree that men are stimulated visually more so than women. The strange thing is that men will accept an erect penis as long as there is a female vag present. Two erect dicks is a big no if there are no naked women near by. It brings up all the fear taboos about their own masculinity..and are they a “real man”.

[bi4asplay]

I also like watching both MM and FF play, But would rather watch MMF play. To me a lady's body is still the most erotic thing on earth. Followed by a nice cock. I have not one problem with my masculinity. Not one person that has learned that I am bi has not been surprised by it.