Bisexuality: Truth or Bigots and Trolls

[tenni]

Does the following quote come across more as a biphobia, trollism or the truth?


“some of them would not get laid otherwise and in order to stop hiding who they are, they want society to change so they can stop cowering in the closet and living a lie, but rather than growing some balls and letting the people around them choose if they accept them or not, they would rather that society change for them and that requires that people like you and me live a lifestyle other than what we are happy with because we should be fitting into the box of bisexuality that they live by and what they want pushed as the norm......”

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Could be a little of all three. Depending who it came From....I think Ive read this before somewhere....
Cat

[Long Duck Dong]

http://www.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?15481-Fitting-in&p=263203&viewfull=1#post263203

what I actually said, not the edited version of that statement

why does a bisexual have to choose both sexes ??? because some of them would not get laid otherwise and in order to stop hiding who they are, they want society to change so they can stop cowering in the closet and living a lie, but rather than growing some balls and letting the people around them choose if they accept them or not, they would rather that society change for them and that requires that people like you and me live a lifestyle other than what we are happy with because we should be fitting into the box of bisexuality that they live by and what they want pushed as the norm......

what is normal for a bisexual ? the same things that are normal for a straight / gay / les person... the right to be who we are without being pushed into a corner and told how we are so wrong for living our lives our way.......

void is a poster I love because he gets it..... there is no evil monogamy that needs to be wiped out.... there is differing levels of monogamy that need to be accepted from the couple that need no other to the people that want a triad or a quad...to the people that want a self contained community......and then there is the differing levels of non monogamy, like the couples that want a triad or a quad or a self contained community ( see the blurred lines between monogamy and non monogamy, they can co exist together )

bisexuality is the same we have the people that want NSA casual sex and nothing else, the people that want a partner and casual sex, people that want partners and casual sex / nothing else and the people that want a partner and nothing else....and that is something that is a aspect of every other sexuality as well

so my advice to you, is enjoy your existence, enjoy who you are and do not feel like you have to live in a way that makes others happy and do not feel like that you have to conform as a bisexual, to any notion of what a good bisexual is.... because the people that are putting up the norm of what a good bisexual is, are bitching about how other people are living according to a norm called monogamy and how wrong conforming to a norm is.......

so if you want to be real, stop and realise that you already are as real as it gets, you are a human being and prone to change and that will not make you any less real..... trust me on that, I am a bisexual ( pansexual ) and always have been.... and the only time you are not real is when you stop being real and create a false front for others to see

Thank you to the people that contacted me about this thread so I could make sure that people got the full post and not a edited version that was twisted around

[tenni]

Unfortunately, the words remain still questionable regardless of the author's name.

The quote does or doesn't sound like the truth. It does or doesn't seem similar to troll statements to incite friction.

Only the submitted section deals with the issues below. The other words deal with a question on another thread.

Does society need to change or do bisexuals need to conform to heteronormative expectations?

What is normal for bisexuals? Are bisexuals exactly the same as mainstream?

Are bisexuals not able to have sex unless they have sex with both genders?(a really silly vacuous attack on who know what?)

Are bisexuals who chose not to be out (and bragging) living a lie? Or are bisexuals choosing that labels do not matter?

Whether the author has spies reporting what I post or simply looks at what I post is irrelevant to the actual thesis of the thread's content. Anyone may click a blocked poster and still read the content. That is what I do with the author's posts if I wish to know what he posted. It is easy..no game playing…lol

[jamieknyc]

Whoever wrote the original sentence should be arrested for assault and battery on the English language.

[tenni]

My opinion is

Society needs to evolve and is evolving. Bisexuals do not need to conform to heteronormative expectations.


It is normal for bisexuals to be attracted to both genders and many have a fluidity aspect to which gender that they are attracted to at various points of their lives. It is normal that bisexuals to vary beyond these factors as to the possibilities.
Bisexuals are not the same as monosexuals found more dominantly in the mainstream society.

I believe that bisexuals want to have the option to have both genders in a variety of arrangements with acceptance from monosexuals. It is silly and bigoted to promote that bisexuals can not find a person to have sex with any less so than a monosexual. It is not silly to understand that there are a lot of variations of how bisexuals chose to live their lives. Some are poly. Some are serial monogamist. Some chose closed loop relationships in a variety of forms with only two others. Some are interested in group sex and some are not.


I think that there is a growing awareness amongst bisexuals that it would be most productive for us if society grew to understand that labelling sexualities is not needed in an open and free society. The process of bringing this attitude forward is unclear. Should we act like gay monosexuals and go about publicly protesting and demanding our rights or are there other ways? If we discuss the issues do we also need to add..I'm bisexual and this is what I think. Or is a label less society a place that what your sexuality not important unless you plan to have sex or a relationship with that particular person.

[Long Duck Dong]

nobody is playing any games, I have you on ignore tenni because of 4 years of your constant personal attacks on me, my partner, my mental health, my sexuality r and other members of the site have felt compelled in the past to post threads asking and telling you to quit harassing me and my partner and making it impossible for them to talk about aspects of sexuality that I posted because you would thread jack the threads for your own agenda

you got banned for that by drew

what I posted was in regards to another members question asking why bisexuals have to choose both sexes ? IE why do they have to conform to a image of bisexuality to fit in and have sex with both genders, why can a bisexual person not be ok with who they are and how they lead their lives without feeling peer pressure to conform to a image of bisexuality that others want pushed as the * right * image of bisexuality and what bisexuals are..... we are all individuals and our bisexuality is different for each of us.....

NOBODY should feel pressured in any way to to be sexually active or to have sex with anybody regardless of their sexuality and that right should be respected...... if posters and members are happy with their bisexuality and monogamy, they should be allowed that right without being told they are wrong and in denial of themselves and how they are conforming to some aspect of society and life and how thats wrong..... and nobody should be made to feel or told that because they are not sexually active or having sex the *right bisexual * way that they are not welcome in the site and nor is their opinions, thoughts and feelings.....

if anything, I am defending peoples rights to be who they are in the site without being told by you or anybody else that if they do not conform or fit the bisexual image that you deem to be right, they do not belong...... and that is in accordance with drews statements that everybody is welcome in the site because its a bisexual community for bisexuals and non bisexuals to learn, listen, love and understand bisexuality, being bisexual, how bisexuality and being bisexual can be different for each person and how we can all just get along with society and each other because we all have to share the world and learn to get along with each other or there will never be acceptance and tolerance

now LEAVE ME ALONE

[tenni]

" we are all individuals and our bisexuality is different for each of us….."
True to some extent but we are all united in that we are attracted to both genders. Most bisexuals and in particular bimen want to have sex with the same gender especially if they have not and reach middle age. That is a common statement from bimen. Most bimen are attracted and often in relationships with a woman but want a man at least sexually. If bimen feel any pressure it is not to want sex with both genders. Society needs to revise its thinking about sexual relationship in order for bisexuals to be accepted.

"If anything, I am defending peoples rights to be who they are"
I don't find the above quote doing that very successfully. Thanks but I am capable of defending my own rights and thoughts as a bisexual man..who is not confused about his sexuality at all. Your words are your words and come across very unclear.

Do you agree that bisexuality is fluid?
Do you agree that labels do not help bisexuals' fluidness?
Do you believe that society needs to change to accept bisexuality in all its variations?
Do you believe that bisexuals need to conform to heteronormative society values?


ah…post 9 in memory of Drugstore Cowboy, ExSailor, Top Fucker, NCCowboy, TMendesas etc.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Lets see, jasmine. You've been here, what? 5 minutes, yet you seem to think that you are qualified to say anything about Anybody here? You dont know Duck, DD, you dont know Tenni, and the constant battle between the three of them. These posters ARENT Trolls, they are long time members here, You are not. And sending people mail that you do not know isnt cool. Maybe you should sit back, and learn more about people before you go calling people Trolls.
Cat.

[semibi]

Clearly there is a wide range of behavior amongst bisexuals. Obviously, this banter has been going on long before I posted my thread. I am sorry that some of my comments on my thread stirred the bickering here.

As I stated, I am married and monogamous, with no plans to change that approach. That said, I am interested to better understand bisexuality. I get that some bisexuals feel the need to have sex with both sexes in order to feel fulfilled. While I understand the sexual impulse, I don't think it is very conducive to relationships that work well for most people. I also do not think it is very conducive to fitting into society.

Heterosexuals and homosexuals partner up with one person at a time all the time. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't enjoy sexual activity with someone else of their preferred sex. But, relationships often come with commitments, for a variety of reasons.

Clearly, some people prefer not to marry or remain monogamous, regardless of their sexual orientation. Everyone understands this.

I don't understand the view the society must change to accommodate bisexuals' desire to have multiple partners. If bisexuals want to do that, what's stopping them? Just as nothing is stopping gays and straights from remaining single or having casual sex. I can't see society widely adopting new norms that where triads or foursomes or whateversomes are considered just another version of a healthy family. Maybe that will happen. But, that seems far fetched to me. Making lasting healthy relationships with one person is hard enough.

I don't have many opinions on committed polyamorous relationships, because I am not interested in having one. Admittedly, the fantasy of it is interesting. But, practically speaking, I think it would seem very complicated to maintain and to avoid mistrusts and emotional pain and fidelity. Regardless, I don't think society is going to conform to this in my lifetime.

I think bisexuals struggle to have an identity that is not confused with or equated to homosexual. I think bisexuals are mistrusted or feared for being too different. I think bisexuals are doubted by partners of both sexes and of other sexual orientations, due to a fear of not being enough for them. I think those issues seem to be of greater concern than pushing society to accept open polyamorous relationships.

Am I missing something? I think I'm going to regret posting. But, here goes...

[Long Duck Dong]

hi Jasmine.... I would like to wish you a very merry xmas and a happy new year for 2011 and what ever other years that you have been hanging about the site creating multiple accounts and getting banned.......

abd since I am still in the xmas spirit I want to sing a few rewritten xmas carol for you....

it goes like this

jingle bells, what the hell ?
another account banned again

oh what fun, to be kicked in the bum
and be banned along with the rest

hey

or how about

I'm dreaming up a new forum name
drew has banned my other 20 or so

I will be back and obnoxious
with another google article knock off

and wishing many people care what I say.....

or how about

create another account, pa rum pum pum pum
More BS to be posted, pa rum pum pum pum
Our finest insult we bring, pa rum pum pum pum
To lspam in the forums, pa rum pum pum pum,
rum pum pum pum, rum pum pum pum,


So to troll the forums, pa rum pum pum pum,
another account will come

[Long Duck Dong]

Clearly there is a wide range of behavior amongst bisexuals. Obviously, this banter has been going on long before I posted my thread. I am sorry that some of my comments on my thread stirred the bickering here.

As I stated, I am married and monogamous, with no plans to change that approach. That said, I am interested to better understand bisexuality. I get that some bisexuals feel the need to have sex with both sexes in order to feel fulfilled. While I understand the sexual impulse, I don't think it is very conducive to relationships that work well for most people. I also do not think it is very conducive to fitting into society.

Heterosexuals and homosexuals partner up with one person at a time all the time. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't enjoy sexual activity with someone else of their preferred sex. But, relationships often come with commitments, for a variety of reasons.

Clearly, some people prefer not to marry or remain monogamous, regardless of their sexual orientation. Everyone understands this.

I don't understand the view the society must change to accommodate bisexuals' desire to have multiple partners. If bisexuals want to do that, what's stopping them? Just as nothing is stopping gays and straights from remaining single or having casual sex. I can't see society widely adopting new norms that where triads or foursomes or whateversomes are considered just another version of a healthy family. Maybe that will happen. But, that seems far fetched to me. Making lasting healthy relationships with one person is hard enough.

I don't have many opinions on committed polyamorous relationships, because I am not interested in having one. Admittedly, the fantasy of it is interesting. But, practically speaking, I think it would seem very complicated to maintain and to avoid mistrusts and emotional pain and fidelity. Regardless, I don't think society is going to conform to this in my lifetime.

I think bisexuals struggle to have an identity that is not confused with or equated to homosexual. I think bisexuals are mistrusted or feared for being too different. I think bisexuals are doubted by partners of both sexes and of other sexual orientations, due to a fear of not being enough for them. I think those issues seem to be of greater concern than pushing society to accept open polyamorous relationships.

Am I missing something? I think I'm going to regret posting. But, here goes...

no you have it about right......

the stats on society show a clear change in social understanding in regards to marriage, there is less and less marriages taking place and a increase in open / non monogamous marriages and monogamy is becoming more of a choice for a relationship and marriage than a obligation, something that is becoming more and more commonplace because the younger generations are moving towards a freer and more open way of life and society has a whole, is constantly changing and redefining new idea.....

but as with any change in society, some people are resisting the change or trying to forcing it to happen faster and that is causing issues because they want others to change their lifestyles as well instead of allowing people to choose what lifestyle they want to live..... and with bisexuality, we are no different to the rest of society, we want the right to choose our own lifestyles and not be pushed into open relationships and marriages by other people, we want to be able to make that choice with our partners and hope that it is a success, in the same way that non bisexuals face the same issues with their open marriages and relationships......

I want all of my friends ( bisexual or otherwise ) to enjoy their lives, relationships and marriages without having to feel that they have to confine to any expectations about how they should live their lives, relationships and marriages.... and that also covers their interracial, multi cultural / belief and sexuality / sexual interests.....
if I want to marry a black, catholic, monogamous trans person that likes to have hot passionate sex in a tree wearing high heels in the moonlight in the middle of winter, then I want to be allowed to do that because I love the person and that is the sex life that we want .... and I do not want to be told that as a bisexual person that I should not be monogamous, fucking in trees, doing it on -5 nights with a ex communicated catholic trans person because thats not the * norm * that I am supposed to follow.....

I want bisexuality to be a more understood and less scary sexuality but I am realistic that its not so much about teaching society about bisexuality but the individual bisexual sharing about how their bisexuality works for them and what they need and want, which can be very different to the bisexual neighbour or the person down the road that is bisexual......and the reason for that is that our friends and partners know us and accept us for who we are because we tell them and so they learn and when they are wrong about us, we can correct them in the same way that we do not judge our friends according to articles, websites and documents .....

I do not expect my heterosexual friends to all be straight, monogamous, committed to relationships and marriages and straight laced because they were married in a church because some groups push that as the * right * look.... I expect my friends to be as diverse in their relationships and marriages as the bisexual community and that is why I am so openly supportive of the rights of the bisexual community to be as diverse as well and not feel that their choice to be monogamous and happy is wrong or conforming to anything other than the way they feel happiest, in the same way that a bisexual in open relationship or marriage with casual / permanent partners, should not have to feel that they are being good bisexuals and conforming to the bisexual norm either..... and nor do I think that there should be ANY type of * norm * just choices and acceptance of peoples rights to live their lives their way...

[tenni]

“I don't understand the view the society must change to accommodate bisexuals' desire to have multiple partners.”


Just as homosexuals demanded that society change and accept that sex between the same gender is not a sin/bad: marriage between same gender is an equal right…. not a perversion and evil. Society changed on these issues in more progressive societies and it is the direction in other free societies professing equal rights.

Society needs to change to understand that being attracted to both sexes is acceptable and not bad. Society needs to change to understand that some people are fluid in their sexual attraction and that is acceptable. Society needs to accept that a bisexual may need to be in relationships (sexual/emotional) with both genders and that is accepted as valid relationships in many versions( for some it may be monosexual serial monogamy but not all). Society needs to change to understand that for some bisexuals it is not a desire but a need to be with both sexes and that is acceptable in an open free society that sees that sexuality labels are not needed. Society needs to change to understand that some people may love two people of different genders at the same time and that is acceptable.

Note: I live in a society that has same sex marriage with all the equality as heterosexual marriages. My thinking may not line up with your own society and even some in my society. Same sex marriage is normal and old for us. It is time to move bisexuality thinking to align progressively for equality.

[tenni]

"I think bisexuals struggle to have an identity that is not confused with or equated to homosexual."

I agree with you but you may need to continue your evolution and thinking as a bisexual.

The binary choice is either bisexuality or monosexuality…not heterosexuality or homosexuality.

Think of the alternative to bisexuality(attraction to two genders/sexes) as monosexuality (attraction to one gender).

Bisexuals are neither homosexual nor heterosexual as they are both attracted to only one gender. We, bisexuals are attracted to two sexes and therefore not the opposite or the same as homosexuals nor heterosexuals (monosexuals).

Heteronormative society is confused about bisexuality though. When your heterosexual monosexual partner says that they accept your bisexuality..many really mean as long as you act like a heterosexual monosexual all will be fine with me. In other words, don't be a bisexual and need both genders.

[elian]

These things have been with humanity for a long time:

There will always be both straight people AND LGBT people
There will always be folks who are interested in a relationship dedicated to one partner
There will always be people who are interested in swinging, poly or group activity or relationships
There will always be adultery
There will always be porn
I'm sad to say there will probably always be prostitution
There will always be people who are more interested in an emotional attachment
There will always be people who are more interested in the physical act

..aren't you glad that we don't all think the same thoughts, act the same way and believe the same things?
..aren't you glad that we don't all have the same physical, mental and spiritual capacity?
..aren't you glad there are different places in the world you can go where people don't always judge you the same way?

..this video is more than a little bit off the wall but I love it, because so many people find fault with themselves all of the time..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKtSVSedii0

..of course, maybe you are more comfortable with people debating and disagreeing than I am. Most of the time when people disagreed in my life people that I loved very much were deeply hurt.

[Gearbox]

why does a bisexual have to choose both sexes ??? because some of them would not get laid otherwise and in order to stop hiding who they are, they want society to change so they can stop cowering in the closet and living a lie, but rather than growing some balls and letting the people around them choose if they accept them or not, they would rather that society change for them and that requires that people like you and me live a lifestyle other than what we are happy with because we should be fitting into the box of bisexuality that they live by and what they want pushed as the norm......


so my advice to you, is enjoy your existence, enjoy who you are and do not feel like you have to live in a way that makes others happy and do not feel like that you have to conform as a bisexual, to any notion of what a good bisexual is.... because the people that are putting up the norm of what a good bisexual is, are bitching about how other people are living according to a norm called monogamy and how wrong conforming to a norm is.......
You are actually advising everybody to ignore the bitchy comments you make about closeted & cheating bi's.:thumbu:

[darkeyes]

You are actually advising everybody to ignore the bitchy comments you make about closeted & cheating bi's.:thumbu::cutelaugh

[jem_is_bi]

You are actually advising everybody to ignore the bitchy comments you make about closeted & cheating bi's.:thumbu:
That sounds like good advice to me.

[Long Duck Dong]

These things have been with humanity for a long time:

There will always be both straight people AND LGBT people
There will always be folks who are interested in a relationship dedicated to one partner
There will always be people who are interested in swinging, poly or group activity or relationships
There will always be adultery
There will always be porn
I'm sad to say there will probably always be prostitution
There will always be people who are more interested in an emotional attachment
There will always be people who are more interested in the physical act

..aren't you glad that we don't all think the same thoughts, act the same way and believe the same things?
..aren't you glad that we don't all have the same physical, mental and spiritual capacity?
..aren't you glad there are different places in the world you can go where people don't always judge you the same way?

..this video is more than a little bit off the wall but I love it, because so many people find fault with themselves all of the time..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKtSVSedii0

..of course, maybe you are more comfortable with people debating and disagreeing than I am. Most of the time when people disagreed in my life people that I loved very much were deeply hurt.


that is why I love you and void.......

we have had threads about the * myths * of bisexuality, that are actually true of some bisexuals and thats the danger of trying to push a * image * of bisexuality......

its not really bisexuality that people want accepted, its their own actions not to be drawn into question or their behievour to be drawn into question and they do not want people assuming the wrong idea about them ( like we see with partners that have a incorrect understanding of what their partners want because of the image of bisexuality in their heads is not matching what the partner is actually wanting to do in regards to their bisexuality )

I remember the times that I was talking about my ( incorrectly diagnosed ) asexual nature in this site as I wanted to share with others about my own experiences.... and then I had to deal with people telling me how I was not fitting or matching the * right image * of asexuality therefore I was not asexual but how as an asexual, I was not bisexual and therefore I should shut up.....and its the exact same type of issues that I see with the * educating * society about bisexuality..... we are too unique and diverse to use the * attracted to both genders * image as some people are open about the fact that they only have a sexual interest in a guys cock and nothing else, they have no attraction to other guys.... and the guys that are attracted to transexuals etc which technically makes them pansexual not bisexual

I still feel that its up to the individual to share their view of themselves with others so others learn about that person and how they can differ from or are similar to other bisexual people because our partners want to know what we think and want more than they want to know what some site says about what their partner wants ( its part of why I am big on the communication aspect )

heterosexuality and homosexuality are a example... they are people attracted to the opposite and same genders respectably, but its the assumptions about them that is causing the issues ( IE the labeling of monogamy as a hetero / monosexual aspect when its actually a marriage / relationship aspect, not a sexuality aspect because we have gays / lesbians / heteros and bis that choose their own type of relationship / marriage ).....

the best way to stop people assuming things about us, is to show and tell them who we are because that way they can decide if they can accept us or not, in the same way that we decide if we can accept others or not.... and that is why a discreet person has a advantage over a closeted person if the discreet person is sharing who they are with selected people because they are showing people whom they are by sharing and talking with others....

I am out about who I am but I am quick to make it clear that my sexuality is a aspect of me and so the way I live and think is a aspect of me and my life and that yes there are differences between me and other bisexuals in the same way that there are differences between hetero people and differences between gay people...... and in the same way that I EXPECT people not to accept me or be ok with me, I know I will be the same with others.... it just means that I am not going to call people biphobic etc for not agreeing with me or accepting me and my actions in the same way that I do not hold bisexuality responsible for cheating any more than I hold homosexuality or heterosexuality responsible for people cheating specially its the people themselves that admit and acknowledge that its the need and deserve for sex that is the key aspect.......

the world is not perfect and nor are any of us... and nor do I expect a perfect world...... but its us that can make the difference in how society sees us as people based around our actions and thoughts and that is why its best that we are our own teachers about our own sexuality rather than trying to create a image of bisexuality that is too blurry and misleading for other people because its incorrect for the bisexuals in their lives.....

[tenni]

“I am realistic that its not so much about teaching society about bisexuality but the individual bisexual sharing about how their bisexuality works for them and what they need and want, which can be very different to the bisexual neighbour or the person down the road that is bisexual..”


hmm Teaching society is in part how you change society. Just who will inform society? Will it be done on a one by one basis or will more large scale approaches be used?

It seems to me that it is probably a combination but which comes first?

Could movie plots be used to teach/educate about bisexuals? The lead character would teach society better and more people than one person telling another person how their sexuality works for them. Just how many people in society know about bisexuality? bisexuality fluidity aspect? A bisexual may be in love with two people of different genders at the same time? Few I would suspect. A movie character with a plot that shines a positive light rather than negative attitude seeems to be a good way to intro to everyone in society. “A Brian’s Song” approach where the lead died and all movie goers felt empathetic towards the gay man worked back then and a bisexual main character may work for bisexuality. Presently, few characters are bisexual in movies.

The one to one approach will not work for the bisexual attitude that sexuality labels are not needed. It nobody’s business unless we are having sex. No, the concept of being "out" is a “gay” concept as far as those bisexuals are concerned.

It seems to me that the italic text is a bit idealistic and possibly impractical but if it works that would be great. I suspect a variety of approaches that differ from the gay movement are needed to be used to change society over a good amount of time. Bisexuals need to first decide who/what they are. How are we different and what do we have a right to? Organize and strategize. Unfortunately, getting bisexuals to unite is as easy as herding kittens..lol

[tenni]

"I remember the times that I was talking about my ( incorrectly diagnosed ) asexual nature in this site as I wanted to share with others about my own experiences.... and then I had to deal with people telling me how I was not fitting or matching the * right image * of asexuality therefore I was not asexual but how as an asexual, I was not bisexual "

If a person says that they are a frog but they do not sound, jump, prefer to live in water, etc. like a frog are they a frog? If the frog identifier is always talking about horses having sex and how they know so much about horse sex, does that increase the viability that they are a frog? If another person points out the contradictions to the frog identifier and the identifier insists that they are a frog are they a frog or confused? Later, the frog identifier admits publicly that they are not a frog and medical science has told them so. Is the frog identifier a persecuted horse?

"As I stated, I am married and monogamous, with no plans to change that approach."

Congratulations! Do you have a husband or wife that you are living in a monogamous marriage in New Zealand? That explains why DD did not return to New Zealand from the southern USA since that month in 2009 and why you never came to the US when she was so ill in the hospital. That internet "Second Life" fantasy marriage to DD when she was still legally married and living with her legal husband was a bit of a stretch. Thanks for clarify this finally.

[Long Duck Dong]

"As I stated, I am married and monogamous, with no plans to change that approach."

Congratulations! Do you have a husband or wife that you are living in a monogamous marriage in New Zealand? That explains why DD did not return to New Zealand from the southern USA since that month in 2009 and why you never came to the US when she was so ill in the hospital. That internet "Second Life" fantasy marriage to DD when she was still legally married and living with her legal husband was a bit of a stretch. Thanks for clarify this finally.




lol I am not married and never have been...... semibi who is a male in the usa and married, posted that in post 10...... I would suggest that you be more careful about your trolling and harassment of people and use what they post, not what other people post.

[tenni]

opps I'm a dumb arse . :(

About your monogamy issues…which you have stated yourself before many times…or is this a new year all the stuff you wrote about your monogamous relationship with DD etc. is false now?

Now about your persecution and the other comment about your persecution complex dumpling? Didn't ya love my frog / horse analogy ;)

What about the content of post 20? :) The main point of the thread is about changing society.

[dafydd]

Huh? :confused:

[dafydd]

hi Jasmine....



Who is jasmine, cos she sent me a message saying I'm fat and ugly and that no wonder I pay for sex and then she's quoting stuff back to me that Ive never heard of before...
What have I missed?

[Long Duck Dong]

jasmine is a troll account, one of many that have been hanging around the site lately...... and based around what one of the troll incarnations said about multiple people trolling the site, it would confine what a member posted a couple of years ago with a link to a site on the net that listed this site as a place to troll and I believe, members to be targeted.....

its why there are old aspects of my life used as weapons against me by * new * members.......a bit like what is happening with this thread....

as for who jasmine is, I actually have no idea and nor do I really care, lol.....I deal with people like that all the time on the game sites I help to run so I am pretty much immune to them... tho the remarks are similar to the remarks in this thread about how its always other peoples job to fix issues and problem... and like with gaming sites, the issue is not always with the site, often its with the player themselves

[~Joe~]

I think I have been for all my life one who hides in the corner and my friends would reject me, like a lot of others I know.
Then one thing changed and I stood up one day and said to my wife ........ I am bisexual, this is me!
since then she has not liked it, but seems to be letting me be who, may be a new me, and now I can start saying to some people I am Bi this is me.

[ghost_of_bluebiyou]

Whoever wrote the original sentence should be arrested for assault and battery on the English language.

For once I quite agree with jamie... 102 words with nary a semi colon or a period.
Late adolescent, nearly adult use of manipulative wording, though...
CNN?

[dafydd]

ok. good to know. i put on some weight this year and for an instant took it personally.;)


jasmine is a troll account, one of many that have been hanging around the site lately...... and based around what one of the troll incarnations said about multiple people trolling the site, it would confine what a member posted a couple of years ago with a link to a site on the net that listed this site as a place to troll and I believe, members to be targeted.....

its why there are old aspects of my life used as weapons against me by * new * members.......a bit like what is happening with this thread....

as for who jasmine is, I actually have no idea and nor do I really care, lol.....I deal with people like that all the time on the game sites I help to run so I am pretty much immune to them... tho the remarks are similar to the remarks in this thread about how its always other peoples job to fix issues and problem... and like with gaming sites, the issue is not always with the site, often its with the player themselves

[tenni]

ok. good to know. i put on some weight this year and for an instant took it personally.;)

Do you need someone to work you hard..matey? ;) :bounce:

note to self…if you want an intelligent conversation stop flirting on the thread. :(

[tenni]

I think I have been for all my life one who hides in the corner and my friends would reject me, like a lot of others I know.
Then one thing changed and I stood up one day and said to my wife ........ I am bisexual, this is me!
since then she has not liked it, but seems to be letting me be who, may be a new me, and now I can start saying to some people I am Bi this is me.

Good for you. Do you think that you will now change their mind about negative ideas about bisexuality?

Do you think that more minds will be made positive by including positive examples of bisexuality in movies, books etc?

Or other ways to change society's negative views about bisexuals, fluidity aspect of bisexuality etc.?

[dafydd]

Clearly there is a wide range of behavior amongst bisexuals. Obviously, this banter has been going on long before I posted my thread. I am sorry that some of my comments on my thread stirred the bickering here.

As I stated, I am married and monogamous, with no plans to change that approach. That said, I am interested to better understand bisexuality. I get that some bisexuals feel the need to have sex with both sexes in order to feel fulfilled. While I understand the sexual impulse, I don't think it is very conducive to relationships that work well for most people. I also do not think it is very conducive to fitting into society.

Heterosexuals and homosexuals partner up with one person at a time all the time. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't enjoy sexual activity with someone else of their preferred sex. But, relationships often come with commitments, for a variety of reasons.

Clearly, some people prefer not to marry or remain monogamous, regardless of their sexual orientation. Everyone understands this.

I don't understand the view the society must change to accommodate bisexuals' desire to have multiple partners. If bisexuals want to do that, what's stopping them? Just as nothing is stopping gays and straights from remaining single or having casual sex. I can't see society widely adopting new norms that where triads or foursomes or whateversomes are considered just another version of a healthy family. Maybe that will happen. But, that seems far fetched to me. Making lasting healthy relationships with one person is hard enough.

I don't have many opinions on committed polyamorous relationships, because I am not interested in having one. Admittedly, the fantasy of it is interesting. But, practically speaking, I think it would seem very complicated to maintain and to avoid mistrusts and emotional pain and fidelity. Regardless, I don't think society is going to conform to this in my lifetime.

I think bisexuals struggle to have an identity that is not confused with or equated to homosexual. I think bisexuals are mistrusted or feared for being too different. I think bisexuals are doubted by partners of both sexes and of other sexual orientations, due to a fear of not being enough for them. I think those issues seem to be of greater concern than pushing society to accept open polyamorous relationships.

Am I missing something? I think I'm going to regret posting. But, here goes...

no reason to regret posting. Was a very interesting read and deeply compassionate. Thx.

[dafydd]

I understand what ur trying to get at with the frog/bisexual analogy Tenni but the problem is that you start with a predefined notion of a frog (bisexual).
We should not be asking what does (or does not) constitute a bisexual, but rather who really defines what a bisexual is or isn't in the first place.
Unless I have misunderstood the analogy..


opps I'm a dumb arse . :(

About your monogamy issues…which you have stated yourself before many times…or is this a new year all the stuff you wrote about your monogamous relationship with DD etc. is false now?

Now about your persecution and the other comment about your persecution complex dumpling? Didn't ya love my frog / horse analogy ;)

What about the content of post 20? :) The main point of the thread is about changing society.

[Long Duck Dong]

ROFLMAO.. curiousity got the better of me so I went and read the post......ROFLMAO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_frog or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frog what one is the correct defination of frog ? because one fits the defination tenni uses, the other doesn't and they are still both frogs....

I agree with you dafydd.. we should not start with a preconceived notion of what constitutes a bisexual, but who really defines what a bisexual is... and why if we use ONE image, it excludes so many bisexuals because they are not within the limited parameters of another persons notion of bisexuals and bisexuality

actually this reminds me of something somebody said to me years ago about the LGBT and different races... and about how we are all human, its just that its the aspect of us that is forgotten when it comes to treating us like everybody else, then we are only seen as a sexuality or a race....

my defination of a bisexual is a person that defines themselves as a bisexual, I have no criteria that a person has to meet or conform to in order to be bisexual as attraction is different for each person and there is no universal measurement for measuring attraction and I have no right to tell people that they do not fit the criteria of bisexuality as defined by other people...... so a persons label of themselves may be right or wrong but like myself, labels given to us by others, can be wrong IE the asexual nature for me is actually anhedonia.... and its not the asexual but not asexual label assigned to me and based around what was read on sites and twisted around.....

for me it comes under the heading of freedom to be who we are and accepted without condemnation or judgement from other people..... so I practise what I preach and what I would like to see in society... and not the people must conform to a box defination of what is acceptable because that is the core stance that is used by anti same sex / gender advocates......anybody that falls outside of what they deem to be correct and right, is not acceptable and not welcome as part of society.....and in my case and others, being told that we are not welcome in the site that embraces and accepts us for who we are, by some members of this site who are preaching about acceptance and tolerance of bisexuals

[dafydd]

I'm watching a film on tv. As I sent that last response, I looked up at the tv and a bisexual character in the film picked up a frog.

i am NOT making that up. Honest to god truth.

d

[Gearbox]

Lets go release all the prisoners who define themselves as 'innocent'.:bigrin:

[dafydd]

That's not the same.

[Gearbox]

Tis so!:bigrin: Society put them in there by it's def of 'guilty' which isn't always the same as the prisoners def of it. Many would claim that their 'crime' was a just act and not a 'crime' at all.
Ask anybody who gets a parking ticket if they were justifiably 'guilty'.lol

[tenni]

I understand what ur trying to get at with the frog/bisexual analogy Tenni but the problem is that you start with a predefined notion of a frog (bisexual).
We should not be asking what does (or does not) constitute a bisexual, but rather who really defines what a bisexual is or isn't in the first place.
Unless I have misunderstood the analogy..


Waaaaaa sniffle sniffle NO….. you studly Welshman.


The frog is not the bisexual.


The frog is the person that thinks that they are one thing despite everything about them indicates otherwise. They are another. The frog is the one who denies who they really are and blames others for seeing who the frog really is.


The horse could be bisexual, gay or heterosexual but not the asexual. Or just a horse hung cock floating in the ether. ;)


*Now, I’m going to re register for Analogy 102 or (how to fuck up your head while giving head)

Scientists including psychologists, sexologists define what a bisexual is or is not.

There is a group of bisexuals who do not like things defined and want all inclusive whatever. That alone may be a trait of a bisexual or just a subgroup.

I think that bisexuals can help scientists define bisexuality by reporting as subjects to studies. I don't think (don't know either) if fluidity is an accepted trait of bisexuality as far as science is concerned. That may or may not be true until scientific process has been followed. I'd put my money that fluidity is a trait of bisexuality.

[tenni]

“I don't understand the view the society must change to accommodate bisexuals' desire to have multiple partners. If bisexuals want to do that, what's stopping them?


The law is stopping bisexuals from legally creating closed loop relationships. The law doesn’t stop them from creating the closed loop relationship as much it is doesn’t recognize any legal connection between the three partners. It was once far fetched that same sex marriages would be realistic. With arguments of "God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" it remained far fetched for some time and is still in more conservative societies.

. Why not support other bisexuals in a bisexual website? It appears that you do not believe in closed loop relationship.

[void()]

my defination of a bisexual is a person that defines themselves as a bisexual, I have no criteria that a person has to meet or conform to in order to be bisexual as attraction is different for each person and there is no universal measurement for measuring attraction and I have no right to tell people that they do not fit the criteria of bisexuality as defined by other people

*chuckles* Oh hi, LDD. :) I am a bisexual gentleman. Or at least, I try being a gentleman. *grins and chuckles, wanders back to hewing the log at the camp*

*hollering back over his shoulder* Oh yeah, they tell me I'm half loony as well. Do mind that, shall you? *snickers as he now bums a cigarette on top of his rub of snuff, goes back to his hewing*

[void()]

“I don't understand the view the society must change to accommodate bisexuals' desire to have multiple partners. If bisexuals want to do that, what's stopping them?


The law is stopping bisexuals from legally creating closed loop relationships. The law doesn’t stop them from creating the closed loop relationship as much it is doesn’t recognize any legal connection between the three partners. It was once far fetched that same sex marriages would be realistic. With arguments of "God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" it remained far fetched for some time and is still in more conservative societies.

. Why not support other bisexuals in a bisexual website? It appears that you do not believe in closed loop relationship.

Actually, if I were half intelligent and could read amendment number ten of the Constitution for America, note I use the for not of here, then I would see we are granted the right to have "closed loop" marriage or relationship. But I apparently am not nearly quite that intelligent, nor am I capable of reading. Oh wait, what am I doing here replying to you then? Oh, well ... erm ...

Oh yes, also merely because something is illegal does not imply or express that is unlawful. And I think a lot more folks ought to start recognizing we in America were firstly founded upon Common Law, and not Law of Admiralty, which is used only as laws to govern commerce.

Me bedding a man and woman freely, without compensation does not equate to commerce, save for the sense of capitulation. ;)

[tenni]

Ya..good to read Void!!! Closed Loop relationships are legal across the US…but not same sex couple marriages? Now, if only the fifteen countries (Argentina, Sweden, South Africa, Canada , Australia, Denmark, Iceland, Brazil, Netherlands, etc.) that have legal same sex couple marriages could catch up and recognize the legality of closed loop relationships(dare I write marriages?)

Although we are discussing international bisexuality issues, each country's bisexual advancement is to be cheered!

illegal but not necessarily unlawful? sounds like an opener to circular logic debate?

[dafydd]

Did u know that infidelity involving the same sex, outside of a same sex marriage is not grounds for divorce in the UK?
e.g a man whose husband has had sex with another man cannot divorce on the grounds of infidelity and same with women.

[elian]

We can argue legal theories all day but until those ideas are tested in a court of law they will remain theories. Of course I learned a long time ago that if you don't want to know the answer sometimes it's better not to ask the question.

[tenni]

Daf
Am I correct in thinking that in Britain you do not have marriage equality as far as gender is concerned? I did not see Britain listed as one of the fifteen countries with legal same sex marriage?

In Canada, the marital situation is not gendered base. A person in Canada may not have infidelity as grounds for divorce or need to use infidelity but if they did then both cross gender and same gender marriages would have the same rights. If in Britain cross gender marriages may use infidelity as grounds for divorce but not same gender then Britain does not have equality of legal marriages.

I'm not a lawyer and so I am not aware of the details. What I do know is that same sex couples may marry with all the same legal rights as cross gender couples. (apparently there were hundreds of fine loop holes discriminating against same sex couples) Same sex couples may divorce on the same grounds as cross gender couples in Canada. Recently, a case came to the courts about non Canadians same sex couples marrying in Canada not allowed to get a Canadian divorce as an old divorce law stated that you must reside in Canada for a year before filing for divorce. That law was quickly changed so that those who come from other countries and marry in Canada may also get a divorce in Canada. (the couple couldn't get a divorce in their state (US) because their state of residence did not acknowledge same sex marriages as equal.

I suspect that Canada is not ready for closed loop marriages because I don't think that they legally exist in Canada. It would be beneficial for bisexuals to learn under what circumstances existing laws may interfere with closed loop relationships. If two of the three we're in a comma and on life support, the legal issue as to if the third partner would or would not have the legal right to pull the plug if they both were brain dead. Rationally based on other legality about same sex marriage and cross gender marriage it should be the third person in the closed loop situation that would have the legal right.

Elian is correct that each countries constitution's Charter of Rights and Freedoms etc. will legally guide countries via Supreme Courts. In Canada once provincial Supreme Courts began to state that the Charter gave these rights, the pace picked up and was nearly across the country by the time the Supreme Court of Canada made their decision. It looks like Britain's constitution may not be set up for equality based on sex/gender? Has Britain pussy footed around the issue by civil unions or ?

Only pressure from bisexuals will bring the equality issue of closed loop relationships to the public and eventually Supreme Courts. If the majority of bisexuals are satisfied living in heteronormative relationships and suppressing their same gender needs nothing will change. Those that are new to acknowledging the same sex attraction will continue to be unaware if sites like this do not discuss these types of relationships.