Should "B" Be Taken Out of "LGBT"?

[RavenEye]

Hello all! I ask this question simply because when I did identify as Bi (I now go by "no label"), the most biphobia I got came from the LGBT community, ironically. So I hardly have any gay friends. And I only date people who are bisexual because straight people think it's gross and gay people think I am lying. Hell in High School I either identified as gay or straight to different groups of friends because it was just way easier. And on the same note do you think that "Q" (Questioning) should really be added to "LGBT" because from my experience gay people will just say "Oh yeah you're gay." Though that person may not be, other people like to label people and that person may feel inclined to go with a label that they are not just because it's the path of least resistance. You can probably see why I now identify as "no label", haha. So reading all this and based on your own experiences: Should "B" be taken out of "LGBT"? And, should "Q" really be added?

[tenni]

Hi RavenEye
Long time no read a post from you. Welcome back.

I am inclined to question whether LGBT organizations does bisexuals any good. There is the San Francisco Human Rights Commission report on Bi Invisibility that reported that LGBT organizations were underserving bisexual needs but bisexuals made up the majority on non heterosexuals. The accusation was that the GLBT organization in San Francisco was using bisexuals to increase their numbers when applying for government etc. grants. Then they provided services that bisexuals had to fit into rather be specific for bisexual (not gay) needs. That puts a bee in my jock..lol

I know that some LGBT organizations are reported to be serving bisexual needs with workshops etc as reported by some people on this site but still it is something to watch carefully.

Individually and personally, I have not really met a gay person who did verbally bad mouth bisexuals in person. I have read bisexual women bad mouth bisexual men just as much as I have read where gay men do get upset with biguys. They state that bisexuals are a poor choice for a partner but a good fuck bud. I have to wonder if these experiences happen with a gay man ignoring that the bi guy is dating a woman or partnered with a woman.

Politically as can be evident in posters on this site many bisexuals are not interested in promoting bisexual rights. They seem to just want to know how to “manage” their sexuality while living with a woman..more so that living with man.

In order for bisexuals to get the money and support that bisexuals are due by their numbers, some bisexuals must speak louder . Unfortunately, uniting bisexuals for a cause is as easy as herding kittens ;)

As far as adding a Q, I don’t care but tend to think that Q is for Queer not Questioning. I don’t identify with LGBT and it won’t make me identify with them more if we become just less important by watering down things with a Q group as well in the name of LGBT.

[still_shy]

Personally, it's not the bisexual part that I have trouble with....it's the MARRIED bisexual label. Automatically people assume that I'm a horny housewife, looking for a third to spice up sex with my husband. I've felt more disdain from every front because of that than I have for being bisexual. Honestly, I don't feel like I fit in anywhere. The towns I have lived in have always been small and without any diversity at all. I do feel like as a bisexual woman there's a certain stigma attached to it but then again, it's that way with just about everything.

[cuttin2dachase]

I am closeted bi and only "label" myself as bi to other bi people. In everyday life, I am outwardly heterosexual and wish to be labeled as so by the world at large. My mm desires are my secret, shared and acted upon with only other bisexual men, women and couples who are also closeted. For that reason, I can tender no opinion either way on removing 'B' or adding 'Q'. This is an interesting question, but will be best answered by bisexual people who are out and openly bisexual.

[void()]

Politically as can be evident in posters on this
site many bisexuals are not interested in promoting bisexual rights.
They seem to just want to know how to “manage” their sexuality while
living with a woman..more so that living with man.

Only responding for myself in the form of an opinion. Do not see much
need in the way of being political to promote "bisexual rights". And
this comes from a discussion had with a religious straight male.

He made a valid point. Why should a bisexual have any right over a
straight person, or vise versa? Does it matter what happens in the
privacy of one's bedroom, in regard to say education finance reform?

As he said if a bisexual person did not desire being victimized, they
ought to not play the victim. His point was that everyone is equal and
allow it stop at the bedroom door. He did not want to know because to
him it was irrelevant.

Found myself realizing he may have a valid point. And it is not bigotry
because he does not care, inferring he does not care in a capacity to
hate. His logic is we are all equal, period, full stop.

I had trouble and still do, in finding valid means to refute that
logic. Rather on the other hand promote human rights, dignity, respect,
compassion, the Golden Rule in lieu of anything religious. Then, I
suppose in a sense that would have me rallied as an egalitarian and
idealist.

So mote it, if so. Rather tired of all the damn bullshit labels poking
the eyes out of folks. We may soon all wind up blind for want of pulling
splinters from our brothers' eyes.

As for the bit regarding managing living with a woman and bedding a
man too? I would be happier if you could explain how to live with
both freely, unashamed, not accosted by a society which by now
ought to be mature enough to live and let live. But I doubt you have
such an explanation, unfortunately.

[tenni]

Well, void I think that bisexuals need to unite politically just for people who are either bisexual or your religious friend who can not see a need for equality for bisexuals. This argument of his has been used against homosexuals. Apparently, you do not see the link. If he didn’t care in opposition, he would not have made his statement about bisexuals making themselves a victim as he doesn't need these equality aspects to be happy.

You give an answer in your last paragraph to this religious man. Did you tell him that as a bisexual that you want to live with a wife and husband in the same household? Did you ask him if he agreed that you should have that right? I wonder if he would state that you are making yourself a victim by wanting sex with both women and men. It is your fault that you have these needs. God will forgive you but you must put such evil thoughts out of your mind…etc.

Do you have same sex marriage equality where you live? A quick glance stated that where you live even same sex partners may not marry with full legal rights equal to a cross gender couple. That is banned where you live (it seems) Now what about closed loop marriages? It is bigots like your religious friend that are holding back same sex marriage in your state. Where I live it is old and bigots like your religious friend only say these words when they are with their own kind. They do not dare speak out too loudly any more because society doesn't support their thought..beyond that they may chose to not have a same sex marriage or cross gender marriage. They have the right to believe it is wrong for them but not impose their beliefs on an equality society.

Is your state considered part of the bible belt?…just wondering.

Again, how many GLBT organizations promote bisexual equality of closed loop marriages/relationships?

[elian]

Yeah, well I believe that for the most part equality should rule as well however the difference is that some groups -do- get preferential treatment - for example government policy is set up to provide financial incentives which encourage marriage and home ownership because it promotes stability within society..

It's a lot easier to give LGBT people the existing civil rights of marriage then it is to amend every law that is affected by marriage to include the terminology "civil union" or whatever ..

The problem I have with the line void's friend used is that some folks just don't understand "why LGBT folks have to make such a ruckus!" but they will be the same folks to absolutely insist that "marriage" is only for heterosexuals. Of course, maybe void's friend is more forgiving or open-minded than I give credit for but in my experience most folks want to both admire the cake and eat it too..

I take the point that as long as there are LGBT suicides because LGBT people are demoralized there needs to be some sort of advocate for minority rights and understanding.

[Gearbox]

It's a double edged sword IMO. Having LGBT without the 'H' for heterosexual, is segregating hets & non-hets. But on the other hand, equality would wouldn't get strived for if the 'un-equal' didn't kick up a fuss about it. I doubt women would have got the right to vote if women kept schtum about it and left it to the men. NOT that men liked it that way (I think) but coz .........well that's just how it is.....and nobody is complaining.
It would be lovely if we could scrap the LGBT and just rely on Human Rights to sort things out for everybody as one big happy sexuality & gender mix family. It would be.:rolleyes:

I'm not sure if taking the 'B' out of LGBT would make any difference. Could change it to an 'N' for the OP if that's the 'non-label' label he prefers.lol

[void()]

]

[/SIZE]You give an answer in your last paragraph to this religious man. Did you tell him that as a bisexual that you want to live with a wife and husband in the same household? Did you ask him if he agreed that you should have that right? I wonder if he would state that you are making yourself a victim by wanting sex with both women and men. It is your fault that you have these needs. God will forgive you but you must put such evil thoughts out of your mind…etc.

Do you have same sex marriage equality where you live? A quick glance stated that where you live even same sex partners may not marry with full legal rights equal to a cross gender couple. That is banned where you live (it seems) Now what about closed loop marriages? It is bigots like your religious friend that are holding back same sex marriage in your state. Where I live it is old and bigots like your religious friend only say these words when they are with their own kind. They do not dare speak out too loudly any more because society doesn't support their thought..beyond that they may chose to not have a same sex marriage or cross gender marriage. They have the right to believe it is wrong for them but not impose their beliefs on an equality society.

Is your state considered part of the bible belt?…just wondering.

Again, how many GLBT organizations promote bisexual equality of closed loop marriages/relationships?


My last paragraph was a response to you.

No I did not address the issues with this person. Saw no need in sending
myself to jail, lethal injection. Because this person would have spouted
out something fully stupid, fully hateful. At which point not being a
victim would mean I would lose self discipline, become angered enough to
be in a state of cold rage.

You are correct. Where I live is part of the Bible belt. Which is fun
to say the least for an atheist bisexaul man. ;) Also hopefully such
explains my reservations and appeal to discretion, subterfuge. I blend
in and play the "ha ha yuck, well everybody knows it's Adam and Eve not
Adam and Steve" bit well enough outwardly.

Those needing to know, do. No point to endanger or disrespect without
need. Although, it seems in my reply to you, I do wish society as a
whole could mature to such a point expressed. Really have difficulty in
idiots seeming to rule how anyone lives.

Guess I can better express it from a philosophy that to oppress one is
to oppress all. And I dislike a notion any are oppressed, in any form.

[steve10557]

I think it's for the community organisers to decide whether they want to add or delete into their title. Personally, to me it matters not at all, I consider myself Bi and feel that this is what I truly am, if I have to put a label on it, but my sexuality is not the business of anyone else anyway. I can understand why this question might be important to others, though, at the end of the day it's just another label.

[by~his~side]

ASPCA......I'm glad you brought it up, Pennsy. My personal feeling is people who are mean to animals are nothing more than animals themselves. I know that sounds harsh but it's how I feel.
I love all animals as a group.
My husband and I decided together as two consenting adults to adopt two cats.
We labeled them Haus and Feffer.
They don't seem to mind being labeled.


Thank you for reading my thoughts about the ASPCA.

[tenni]

In memory of BiDave, Top Fucker, NCCowboy, drugstore cowboy etc.

[jem_is_bi]

In memory of BiDave, Top Fucker, NCCowboy, drugstore cowboy etc. Well, maybe they just don't like being associated with 4 letter words.

[zigzig]

Bisexuality is also a form of sexuality like other ones. Just because some people refuse to accept it's existence, there are bisexual people on this planet.

[tenni]

Bisexuality is also a form of sexuality like other ones. Just because some people refuse to accept it's existence, there are bisexual people on this planet.

Zig
The question for me is that those within and without the LGBT deny our existence but what good has it done specifically to be part of the LGBT organizations? The fact that some within the LGBT might dismiss our existence is pretty bad but so is the lack of support systems within LGBT organizations. When people (in and outside of the LGBT organizations) refer to bisexuals as having homosexual love /sex rather than the more logical but separate term of same sex love/sex it shows ignorance and an attempt to place bisexuality between monosexual polarities.

Referring to same sex is being inclusive. Referring to heterosexual and homosexual is denial of our existence as uniquely different than gays and heterosexuals imo.