Choice

[ophelia_in_red]

Something which has been difficult for me to come to terms with is the acceptance that I made a very real decision about my sexuality at the age of 13. I realise this is a highly controversial topic for nearly everybody, but please don't bite my head off before you've finished reading what I have to say! I am speaking only about my personal experience and I don’t intend to make any comment about the beliefs or experience of other non-heterosexuals.

I have suffered from depression on and off since I was about six years old. When I was very young, my depression could be characterised as existential to a certain extent; but obviously this was very difficult for me to articulate at the time. It was always distressing to me that I was unable to see the true reasons for my feelings of misery and hopelessness, and I consequently went about constructing "problems" to give me some sense of security in my depression. I imagined I was hopelessly lonely; that I was stupid; that I was unattractive. None of these things were true, but it helped me to cope if I could make myself believe that my deep feelings of sadness had some comprehensible cause.

By the time I was 13, I made up a "problem" that was to change my life. As I mentioned in another thread, it was on the night of 13th January 2000 that I decided that I would be attracted to women. Having a cause for my depression which marked me as different from other people was somehow very comforting to me, and I easily took the idea in my stride, allowing myself to be troubled by the difficulties I would no doubt face as a lesbian (no point in going by halves) in an all-female private school in Surrey, and the naturally occurring loneliness that would ensue. I also enjoyed suffering from a bad case of unrequited love. It took me several months to pluck up the courage to tell anyone about my newfound (new-imagined) homosexuality, and I received a variety of reactions which fuelled my need for controversy; my best and most trusted friend, a zealous Christian, played the “just a phase” card and all but told me I was going to Hell if I ever decided to act on my lesbian tendencies.

You can probably tell from my writing that I am not proud of the choice I made. This is, in fact, one of the hardest things I have ever had to write. I feel I do have to write it, because of course as I mentioned before, the idea that one can make a decision to become non-heterosexual is a dangerous one. It is also a confession that I have been holding in my breast for six years, and I have never been able to tell other non-heterosexual people about it. You are much harder to tell than hetero people, because it is your banner I am staining.

Ironically, I am stuck with it now. Ultimately, the fact that my lesbianism was based on pretence meant that I couldn’t stay homosexual for long, but I am very bisexual and it’s so much a part of my life now that it’s hard to believe now that once upon a time, it wasn’t true. I suppose that it’s likely there was a seed of truth in it six years ago, which made it easier for me to take the idea and run with it. But I do still feel guilt and shame for the lie I have been telling myself and others for so long that it’s become true.

Even more ironically, my decision to become a lesbian in order to explain my depression was actually one of the best decisions of my life, and it has brought me, ultimately, far more happiness than pain. My bisexuality is as much a part of my personality as it is of my sex life. It feels right for me socially, politically and emotionally. I really do love women now, as much, if not more, than I do men. I’d be fascinated to hear whether you think that I just got lucky and made up something that was actually true, or whether you think I could have shaped my own preferences.

It’s taken quite a lot of soul-searching to write this down for the first time and tell a group of people who no doubt will have powerful opinions about it. The one thing I’m pretty sure of is that none of you will try to make me go back, and that is a comforting thought. I hope you will forgive my self-indulgence in talking about myself for so long.

Regards,
Ophelia Xx

[arana]

(((((( Ophelia )))))) I think the best part of this whole thing is that you made progress through it, realize what you have done over time and came to terms with yourself. Not a lot of people can do that. I can't imagine anyone telling you to go back to that lifestyle, especially when it wasn't the real you.
I'm glad you were able to get this off your chest. Sometimes that can really help.

[membrain]

I agree with Arana, it's so good you got this off your chest! :) *Cheers for Ophelia*

I too have suffered from depression and I know what it feels like to look for reasons when there are not obvious ones. Believe it or not, I tried the lesbian thing too. Truthfully, I don't think you just chose to be attracted to women. If I look back I know I was attracted to girls, even if I wasn't a lesbian. Make any sense? From what you've said you're situation sounds quite similar. Don't worry about it. As long as you're happy. :)

Have a wonderful day!

[ophelia_in_red]

I really appreciate your positive comments. It is something which I suspect I will always have a little bit of confusion about, but getting over the guilt is probably a good idea!

[metasexual]

Hi Ophelia,

I couldn't help responding to your post because its a topic I think about a lot. By way of introduction - I am a neuroscientist and my wife is a psychologist and both of us are bi. First off I don't think it is at all unusual that you chose to 'play a role' as a young teenager - assuming roles and modes of behaviour is how we discover who we really are. The ability to put yourself in different frames of mind and to experiment with them is a strong component of social intelligence. Never fault yourself for self-exporation and gaining self-knowledge.

I read the literature on the genetic basis of homosexuality quite frequently and while I do think there is a strong component of genetically based sexual preference for some people, there is also a very strong likelihood that we can shape our own brains and behaviour. The mammalian cortex is the most adaptable and complex physical structure we are currently aware of. I do think it is politically expedient to show that there can be a stong genetic component to homo/bi-sexuality (if for no other reason to convince the "chattering classes" that fundamental human rights need to be upheld), but speaking as a neuroscientist I think that the human brain has an extreme ability for behavioural adaptation.

So to sum up, I believe it is possible to 'make' yourself hetero/bi/homo-sexual through repeated behavioural conditioning and that people should have the choice to shape their personalities in any way they see fit as long as they don't take themselves to a place that is psychotic or anti-social. That said, there probably is a strong genetic component to your base preferences. The danger in this is that the fundies try and use this argument to say that people should be programmed into heterosexuality. Freedom of choice about your body and mind are the most fundamental of human rights.

Keep on exploring,
Meta

[ophelia_in_red]

For obvious reasons, the matter of choice and sexuality is a topic which interests me very much. It is excellent to hear an informed, sensitive and well thought out opinion on the subject, and I appreciate your kind thoughts. I very much intend to keep on exploring, and I'm so glad that there are bisexual people who aren't angry about my past decisions. I sometimes feel that I am not a "proper" bisexual or that it is somehow impure because it didn't just come upon me unbidden, but you seem to suggest from an educated viewpoint that it is not uncommon for there to be an element of choice in sexual orientation. I would be very interested if you had any links or references you could post that might be relevant to the subject; I am sure I would not be the only one who would find it informative. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge :)

[Reprob8]

I appriciate your situation and empathise but I do not feel you need to appologise to anyone, I just hope that you discover your true identity and happiness. If you feel that you made a choice based on artificial pressure and do not want to live a certain lifestyle then by all means do what makes you happy but if you identify bisexual as strongly as it sounds then find happiness wherever you can get it.

Many people have bisexual experiences and never identify as bi. I am the opposite. I have been fighting my sexuality since I was 8 years old and now I want the experience so bad it hurts but I am afraid of the risks and I have no idea how to find a safe partner. I feel exactly the way I did when I was anticipating sex with my first girlfriend, it is a sureal experience. lol, like being a virgin again.

For whatever reason you felt security in identifying as bi and it would be a mistake to dismiss the experience a wrong.

[Azrael]

Something which has been difficult for me to come to terms with is the acceptance that I made a very real decision about my sexuality at the age of 13. I realise this is a highly controversial topic for nearly everybody, but please don't bite my head off before you've finished reading what I have to say! I am speaking only about my personal experience and I don’t intend to make any comment about the beliefs or experience of other non-heterosexuals.
Well, believe it or not, my own situation is rather similar. I always knew there was something different about me. As I was agonizing over everything one day, my sister asked me if I was gay. I immediately assumed that must be the problem and made a similar decision about myself when I was twelve. Ironically, it was that decision which got me comfortable enough to experiment with the same sex, and wouldn't you know it, I really enjoyed it. Eventually, though I realized I was denying my heterosexuality. For a time I thought I was straight, that it was all some sort of phase. I was with a girl for two and a half years, and started badly missing being with boys. It was her that got me comfortable with the idea of going both ways, and the rest is history. I wouldn't give yourself shit about it, you're not as different as you might think. The point is you know yourself now, and so do I. Believe me, I know it isn't easy. I was just outside on my porch having a smoke and debating over whether or not to respond to this. Honesty is always best, and you get a golf clap from me ;)

[EludedSunshine]

I’d be fascinated to hear whether you think that I just got lucky and made up something that was actually true, or whether you think I could have shaped my own preferences.
I personally believe that there's a very fluid line between choice and not, and we all fall on it somewhere.

That said, I also don't think (at least barring any medical conditions I don't know about) that you can force yourself to permanently believe anything your insides would completely reject. I believe you can mold yourself to accept something, and through that acceptance, sometimes fall into it yourself... But if you were really, truly straight, I believe you'd soon fall out of your affection for women after ending what you "made up." But you didn't, so you aren't. Simple as that. However you got here, you're as entitled to claiming the label as the rest of us. (Don't mind me if I sound kinda gruff about that. It's a sensitive point for me.)

I believe the early stages of my bisexuality were a lot like yours. I had severe depression problems, and the need to justify them to myself. I'm still hearing all the time that my sadness isn't justified and I'm just perpetuating reasons to stay upset, but that's another story... I was also raised by very conservative, older parents, so when I learned that there was so much stuff beyond the world I knew, I wanted very much to claim my piece of it. I can't recall completely like so many people can, but I'm fairly sure this (around age 13/14) was when I started connecting myself to the bisexual world. I was lucky. For me, it wasn't, "Oh my god, I'm THIS?!" It was, "Hey, maybe I'm this." I definitely knew I wasn't run-of-the-mill straight, but I also made a concrete choice to open my mind to the likelihood that I was bisexual. And I'm glad I did.

How much did I "make" myself bi? I don't know. But I know that all of my feelings were inside of me from the beginning--nothing fabricated. I frankly can't comprehend a monosexual mindset, so I'm very thankful that I never had to force myself to.

I hope my two cents make sense. If you ever feel the need to talk more about it, hit me up on AIM. Same name as here. Don't be shy.

[blue_hard]

I have heard the arguments for and against choice - probably a debate without end.

However, to me, "choice" means (to me) that your sexuality has nothing whatever to do with your behavior. It's sort of like the preference for steak or chicken - there is nothing in the genetic programming that has any bearing on it.

But sexuality IS in the genetic programming - and thus I cannot accept (for myself) the idea that one makes a "choice" to be bisexual. One either is or is not.

Now there are those who say: well, if sexuality is in the genetic code, it is supposed to be that men are attracted to women and vice versa. If anyone feels differently it is an aberration in the code. It does not occur in nature.

Oh but it does - it has been observed in frogs, cats, and countless other animals. Sometimes the "cause" (if you're looking for one) has to do with environmental stress - but sometimes (in the case of the cats) it just "happens." (Reference the "Cat's Kingdom").

I won't be able to "prove" this to anyone looking for a black and white answer because I have become convinced that we cannot explain the universe in terms of absolutes. A lot things just are because they are. You simply have to accept it without an explanation.

This, of course, does not take into account the people who "emulate" the behavior on their own - one of the problems with dealing in genetics is that some programmed behavior can also be imitated - I'm trying to keep this simple believe it or not.

For me it is NOT a choice - it either IS or IS not. It took me about thirty years to come to terms with it and it would have been a lot easier if the absolutists hadn't screwed up my thinking in the first place.

However, what is "right" for me may not be "right" for anyone else. Like peanut butter and salami sandwiches.

"Death Before Boredom"

[deletetacount123]

Hmm reading your posts makes a lot of sense what I was going though in my teen years at first I blamed my depression on the non-stop bullying but part did have to do with my freelings for wanting to be with a women.
Course it didn't help I had somehow gotten a "I hate men" rep in school (don't know how that got started other than it was well known I wouldn't date guys in school.

It seems to me I just dated and married a guy to please people :-(
Now Im divorce, Im just going to STOP pleasing people to make them happy... Im gonna do things that makes ME happy whenever someone likes it or not.
*I can see you smiling Reprob!! hehe*
My mom is accepting, I know my parents both just want me to be happy, if I fall in love with a girl, thats fine with them as long as she makes me happy!! :-)

Im feeling a lot happier these days especially after finding this website which makes me feel VERY at home :-)

Tasha

[Herbwoman39]

Action is always better than inaction. You're fortunate that you were strong enough to make a choice instead of slapping the thought away and living in denial for 20+ years.

You do what makes you happy. That's all that matters, really.

[Reprob8]

I have heard the arguments for and against choice - probably a debate without end.

However, to me, "choice" means (to me) that your sexuality has nothing whatever to do with your behavior. It's sort of like the preference for steak or chicken - there is nothing in the genetic programming that has any bearing on it.

But sexuality IS in the genetic programming - and thus I cannot accept (for myself) the idea that one makes a "choice" to be bisexual. One either is or is not.



I chose not to be bi or gay for 30 years and it almost destroyed me and the family that loves me. My son is of the opnion that his dad may be bi but atleast he isn't such an asshole anymore. Now I am openly bi and sexually frustrated in a wierd dualistic way, I have great sex with my wife (since coming out I feel no pressure or anomosity when she wants to have sex, maybe exhaustion but we can live with that) but there is this new component looking for validation.

It will be very difficult to remain manogumous and sometimes she tells me that she just wishes that part would happen so she can get through it.

[taz67156]

everybody has the right to decide what they want when it comes to sexuality know matter what it is and it goes the same way with people who choose to change there body by going from one sex to the other.

If people don't like the way you are then thats their problem not yours so what ever you do just don't let anyone tell you what you are or what sex you should date or even get married too.

taz67156

[Mrs. Taz]

:) I am happy you feel that way taz, I had no idea, and I agree and couldnt have said it better myself. :)

[ophelia_in_red]

I personally believe that there's a very fluid line between choice and not, and we all fall on it somewhere.

That said, I also don't think (at least barring any medical conditions I don't know about) that you can force yourself to permanently believe anything your insides would completely reject. I believe you can mold yourself to accept something, and through that acceptance, sometimes fall into it yourself... But if you were really, truly straight, I believe you'd soon fall out of your affection for women after ending what you "made up." But you didn't, so you aren't. Simple as that. However you got here, you're as entitled to claiming the label as the rest of us. (Don't mind me if I sound kinda gruff about that. It's a sensitive point for me.)

I think you've just about hit the nail on the head, EludedSunshine! :)


.. to me, "choice" means (to me) that your sexuality has nothing whatever to do with your behavior. It's sort of like the preference for steak or chicken - there is nothing in the genetic programming that has any bearing on it.

But sexuality IS in the genetic programming - and thus I cannot accept (for myself) the idea that one makes a "choice" to be bisexual. One either is or is not.
Obviously I can't speak for others' experiences at all, but I personally feel that there was an element of choice in the fact that I turned out bisexual. I have a strong sensation that I cultivated my desire for women.


everybody has the right to decide what they want when it comes to sexuality know matter what it is and it goes the same way with people who choose to change there body by going from one sex to the other.

If people don't like the way you are then thats their problem not yours so what ever you do just don't let anyone tell you what you are or what sex you should date or even get married too.
I admire your point of view, but I wasn't really talking about choice in this sense :) I was thinking more about whether the actual preference can be a matter of choice, rather than one's decisions about whether to act on one's inclinations. Does that make sense? :upside:

[Long Duck Dong]

ophelia_in_red... HUGSSSSSSSS

ok lets take the banner you are staining, and wipe them tears away, and yeah blow ya nose on it too......

ok does that feel good..... right... lets put the banner aside.... and give you another big hug

now lets wash the banner in the washing machine and dry it and fly it over our heads for all the LGBT people, and the heterosexual/ bi curious and all the others that struggle with their sexuality, sexual desires and needs, cos we are all in the same boat, and we all at one stage or another, stained the banner


your post had courage, desire to know yaself, and seeking truth in direction, written all over it, and we have all walked that path at some stage... but each in a different way

depression is a state in which we can go down and inward... and I am more inclined to think that at some stage, that your bisexuality started to surface and from that, you * became * a lesbian... both cos of the possible underlying bisexuality and the need to understand your depression... and as you grew older, the bisexuality became a bigger part of you and you transformed from the caterpillar into the butterfly
I don't know if you were bisexual from birth or you became bisexual by influence... and its not a call i will make

in my eyes, you have done no wrong... you had a decision call, you learnt from it, you adjusted, you smiled, you faced your fear and stood strong, you bared ya heart and revealed all.... and I admire and respect you for that