A thought provoking video

[12voltyV2.0]

Courtesy of Oh My! George Takei and other sources, this is a nice video: http://www.upworthy.com/this-is-what-bullying-an-adult-for-being-gay-sounds-like-you-may-not-even-realize-youve-done-it?c=gt1

[Long Duck Dong]

nice video......

I am ok with people not relating to me, who I am, what I am... etc.... I am the same with some people that i have met.... so I generally ignore them or walk away.... I would rather not go down the path of trying to force people to accept me or tolerate me as being a smoker, I am very well aware of what its like to be expected to be a non smoker and constantly have to deal with the snide remarks, abuse and in my face attitude of non smokers....

there is a world of difference between sexuality and smoking, but bullying, harassment and peer pressure is not as diverse......

workplace harassment of a workmate is something I have dealt with.... and it became a issue because the person went from being a person that was harassed over their sexuality, to being a person that used their sexuality as a weapon, because they come to think of it as a way to get the upper hand and when they were passed over for a promotion, they immediately played the sexuality discrimination card,,, my response was simple and blunt, the worker had been given the chance 5 times, to prove they were suitable for the job, each time they failed to do the job and actually caused extra work for the other staff... so they were unsuitable for the promoted position........

other times there has been workplace harassment, it has been a case of action was needed to be taken... and in a couple of cases, it has been discrimination against heterosexual workers ( take that to a employment relations tribunal and you may find that they do not acknowledge it to be real, unlike LGBT, gender or race discrimination )

its a fine line between people that do not accept our sexuality but accept us as people... and those that will not accept us as people because of our sexuality that they also will tolerate......I do not expect everybody to accept and embrace sexuality, its just there is no need to try and make our lives miserable when we try not to make your lives miserable.... and that goes for any sexuality.....

[tenni]

Interesting from a few points. Most obvious is the words gay and trans are used. Not once is the word bisexual used. Bi Invisibility is being practised in this media gay/trans positive promotion video about being gay and trans in the workplace. The video went on for over seven minutes but not even ten seconds to address bisexuality in the workplace. How do bisexuals feel when they can not mention having lovers of both genders. Not one word about a supervisor supporting a bisexual's right to have lovers of both genders. Bisexuals must not work or get harassed in the workplace. Bisexuals must be able to talk to others that they work with about being with a woman and also having a relationship with a man without one eyebrown raised. Ya sure!...lol Bisexuals counts but not in this media presentation about discrimination.

Then again, how many bisexuals watched the video and felt empathy for the gay and transgendered...without even realizing that bisexuality in the workplace was not dealt with? How many bisexuals do not believe that they are being discriminated in the workplace? They have never even considered it? Why? Is it because so many are so deeply entrenched into monosexual thinking?

[void()]

Not one word about a supervisor supporting a
bisexual's right to have lovers of both genders. Bisexuals must not
work or get harassed in the workplace. Bisexuals must be able to
talk to others that they work with about being with a woman and also
having a relationship with a man without one eyebrown raised. Ya
sure!...lol Bisexuals counts but not in this media presentation about
discrimination.

Then again, how many bisexuals watched the video and felt empathy for
the gay and transgendered...without even realizing that bisexuality in
the workplace was not dealt with? How many bisexuals do not believe that
they are being discriminated in the workplace? They have never even
considered it? Why? Is it because so many are so deeply entrenched into
monosexual thinking?

Why ought the supervisor know a person is bisexual? Does their
bisexuality influence them plugging widget J into sproket G? Does it
influence them selling doodad X to client Z?

My point being what impact does sexuality have in a truly professional
work environment? From my point of view it ought not matter one
whit. That is until someone makes unwarranted sexual advances or
harrassment/s. For example that half way styling gal over in cubicle 4
gets told by a supervisor to suck him off for a raise, or go home to
not return to work. Or maybe a guy smacks anthor guy's butt in passing,
saying he just loves the feel of a tight ass.

That crosses the line and becomes unproffesional. Beyond that, what
should a person's sexuality matter in a professional work environment?
Why ought a supervisor know the sexuality of each respective employee?
What use would such information be to the work at hand?

I mean ultimately is not about production or service being top notch? So
the supervisor knows Bill in shipping is bisexual, does the supervisor
offer bill a blow job if he ships out over quota? Sorry, I'm not
following why it is an issue.

Why ought bisexuals talk to co-workers about their sexuality? Does it
matter to the co-worker, unless again in the case of sexual harrassment
it should not. Again, not following why such as this is an _issue_.

I did not watch the video, full stop. I just have no desire to watch
videos much now. Maybe in a few weeks I'll go back to watching
television/videos. At the time, I'm video'ed out.

I think lots of bisexuals realize they are more mature in philosophy,
living than many "normals" or "divergents". This means we see no need to
create an _issue_ where there really is no need of one being, no need of
causing one simply because we are told to feel "left out".

That and many bisexuals are likely desensitized and apathetic to all
the media whitewash of what is "normal". Hell we have programming
on television now what incites hard core fucking between bisexuals,
homosexuals, and even straights. Just tune to HBO or Showtime. They no
longer restict themselves to soft core porn, mature inuendo. It is full
on sexual assualt or nothing.

While I enjoy a bit of porn. I also enjoy not watching it when I seek
other entertainment. Might enjoy a movie like Lions For Lambs once in a
while. Something which addresses current issues and requires a little
thought beyond "oh, me so horny uh uh oh yes, yes fuck me harder".

But hey each to their own, if you like being dumbed into brainless mush,
go for it! :) I'll happily enjoy you not surviving a zombie apocolypse
should such a thing ever happen, more kale and carrots for me. *grin*

Again, sorry for not tracking it as an issue. I suppose my insanity is
being sane in an insane world.

[Plumhead2]

Volty, thank you for bring this video to my attention. Culture changes slowly and not fast enough to eliminate the pain from those suffering from bullying now. It is hard to stand up for another person, but it is necessary. Thanks for giving me more support to do so.

Tenni, hmmm, you are right. I did feel sympathy for those bullied gay and transgendered people and I did not realize how bisexuals were left out. It is even more diificult to be an invisible minority (at least we think we are a minority).

I am coming to believe that it is fear that causes people to bully others that are different. Fear because different challenges their simple, Black/White understanding of the world. And fear causes others not to stand up for those that are bullied.

[CurEUs_Male]

As for no bisexual scenario being addressed...
The video speaks of bullying, not attempting to reach all levels of sexual identity or practice, so if no one had been found that could relate a bullying session to the team making the video, not such a big surprise. While Straight is assumed for gays, until it is shared, so it is the same for the bi's. Until you relate to having sexual relations with both genders (past or present), no one will ever know, and likely you will not feel bullied. In my work environment, if I spoke of ANY sexual activities or attractions, it would breach a specific restriction in the company policy. If anyone felt uncomfortable - regardless of the sexual orientation of the comment - I would be in trouble.

PC gone awry or simple Professional environment with no reference to sex or orientation?

Good piece though. Does anyone feel like we need to provide examples of bi-bullying? get a few stories together, and post it on upworthy

[tenni]

“The video speaks of bullying, not attempting to reach all levels of sexual identity or practice,”

The video speaks of bullying in the workforce. Based on what you write, bisexuals are not bullied in your opinion? Correct?

It may not be the same overt bullying that gay monosexuals and trans speak of. However, might that be due to the “invisibility” of bisexuals in the workplace. Many bisexual can pass for hetero monosexuals and in fact hide their dual gender attraction. I support bisexuals who believe that it is no one’s business who they have sex with. I agree. According to the video one gay person thought that they were not exhibiting any behaviour to cause any concern and yet they were bullied. They didn't seem to be out but felt bullied.

What happens when a bisexual is bullied for suspected “gay” behavour?
What happens to a bisexual when his workmates refer to something as being gay? Does the bisexual speak out or shudder in fear of exposure?

Do we ever hear about it? If they are suppressing and hiding they will not stand up to complain.

Are these not signs of being bullied? Trying to fit in and yet ridiculed? How many bisexuals speak about fucking the wife and then sucking cock in the workplace? Not many? Is it not out of fear of being bullied?

No, we have bi erasure here. The documentary simply ignore the reality that bisexuals exist let alone are bullied and hide out of fear of being bullied?

[void()]

No, we have bi erasure here. The documentary simply ignore the reality that bisexuals exist let alone are bullied and hide out of fear of being bullied?

Suppose it depends on perspective, some do not see it as "hiding out". Simply no point rocking a boat that isn't there, i.e. an issue that is not an issue.

[void()]

*bump, bump*

tenni,

Seems I may be a bit of a bully in a way. I'm seeing my point of view
only here. Please express this as being relevant to me. In simple terms,
frame it so it has relevance for me.

I live rurally and barely go out from home. At present I am unemployed,
looking for custodial work that does not involve crooks that are bosses.
Meanwhile, I do odd work around home to "earn my keep".

I do everything from laundry & dishes to helping split firewood &
repairing plumbing/roofs. I'm a husband, I husband. I am also bisexual.

So explain to me how this bisexual invisibility you keep professing
exists, is relevant to me. Tell me how I'm bullied by it, its usage and
so on. Put it into context for me, please?

I want to better understand your point of view, at least not feel such
a bully myself in dismissing it out of hand. Not sure I am exactly, so,
here I ask you to better clarify your p.o.v. I'll know then.

[void()]

*bump, bump, again*

Have given tenni two days to frame his point of view regarding the issue
of bisexual invisibility, in a way that it seems relevant to my point
of view. He has not yet either been able, chooses not to, has not seen
the request, [pick your reason]. In some ways I suppose I could feel
offended, upset. I don't.

What I sense from an inability, lack of desire to frame this with
relevance to me, is that;

a) it bears none,

b) the idea is false,

c) some with the idea lack ability to further explain it and present it
to others,

d) a combination of all the above.

I was hoping it could be presented with relevance to me. That would mean
I could better understand the alleged issue the idea seemed keen to
portray as an adversity for bisexuals. Maybe then I too could share in
the indignation from on high over said issue.

Everyone of course, desires joining their peers in hating. :) Hating is
especially nice when one does not need to resolve ambiguity over the
target of the hate. "We hate all [Pick Ethnicity/ies], because they is
Pick Ethnicity/ies] and all the same."

I wrote that as illustrative of the pure ignorance I see in promotion of
an idea which incites and evokes, or tries, hate of others. It is the
same blatant ignorance at work as expressed in the statement regarding
Africans, Jews, Whites,Mexicans, Portuguese, Hindu etc, etc.

Not sure of much in the world anymore. I learned last night there was a
stopping of selling Polaroid One Touch, and Instamatic film for them. It
has turned my world view upside down.

But I am sure that to hate is one of the wrong things to do. Am sure if
I choose to hate, then, I will clearly define and constrain that with
very specific, specifics. And yes, I comprehend that hate is the other
side of the coin, passion, the other being love.

I do not think that choosing to hate without specifics is an implication
of indifference or apathy. It is simply a desire to be highly clear in
who/m, what I am making a choice to hate. Right now tenni is trying to
ratchet folks up into fervor against an idea of bisexual invisibility, or
seems to be.

I, an average Joe sort am asking him to explain why I ought be enraged
over this idea. I want to know how the idea applies to me. Does it make
me toast in the morning? If so, why, or why not? It is a simple process
really, one explores, examines, pokes an idea with a stick and then can
choose to accept, reject it.

Hoo doggies! I'm kicking the tires of his idea. Let me see if he'll give
me the keys, go with me on a test drive. So far he's not. And yes tenni,
I know the idea was not originally yours. It is one you've seemed keen
to champion. Okay, explain why then. Seems to be a simple enough notion.
Why you like this idea? How does this idea really work?

I am here on the World Wide Web & Internet. There are shit tons of ideas
available. I consume them to a degree. Please help me "purchase" this
one you're seeming to act as a salesman for. Give me that nice test
drive. I'll let you have another day, from when this is posted. After
that I'll consider your idea null to me. Plenty of other ideas around.

I like the idea of love, I love, love in fact. Thought I was expressing
a bit too much hate in dismissing your idea. So I stopped, asked you to
better explain it. I do so out of love. Yes, surprisingly I can love
you. *shakes fist in air* "Curse you Red Baron, named Jesus, Buddha,
Gandhi, Einstein." :) I just follow lessons of wise teachers.

[tenni]

Void

Rare as it may seem, sometimes silence is required to reflect on how to articulate ideas.


My main point was that the video actually ignored bisexuals and never even mentioned them. Bullying by ignoring as if irrelevant is demeaning. Therefore Bi Invisibility in this media documentary places bisexuals as not important enough to even report on. Insignificant, unworthy and dismissive in its approach to any psychological suffering by bisexuals.

Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively impose domination over others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. Bi Invisibility is habitual.

Bullying bisexuals may not be the same form as bullying of gays and transexuals who get beaten for their difference. Dominating them in the media to the point of silencing any suffering by them is bullying. Psychological force and coercion tends to hold bisexuals back from living they way that they would prefer. Many are torn enough as to where they fit in the world of sexuality.

Once same sex attraction was seen as a mental illness needing electro shock therapy.
Gays stood up and fought back against the bullying societal attitudes that had them being told that they were sick, evil, perverted and disgusting for what they wanted.

People who are attracted to both men and women have not yet stood up against the bullying from societal values that say they are wrong/bad inconsiderate, etc. to want both. They are expected to live by monosexual values or be called sex crazed, perverts, pick a side, cheater etc. Just as gays were once expected to see their sexual attraction as wrong.

Some bisexuals on this site show empathy for gays and transexuals but do not see a concern as significant for their own repression and societal bullying. I don’t expect to have most accept these words.

[void()]

Void

Rare as it may seem, sometimes silence is required to reflect on how to
articulate ideas.

My main point was that the video actually ignored bisexuals and never
even mentioned them. Bullying by ignoring as if irrelevant is demeaning.
Therefore Bi Invisibility in this media documentary places bisexuals
as not important enough to even report on. Insignificant, unworthy and
dismissive in its approach to any psychological suffering by bisexuals.

Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate,
or aggressively impose domination over others. The behavior is often
repeated and habitual. Bi Invisibility is habitual.

Some bisexuals on this site show empathy for gays and transexuals but do
not see a concern as significant for their own repression and societal
bullying. I don’t expect to have most accept these words.


I understand needing silence to reflect and articulate. I do it as well.
This is why I took a bit to realize that I may have been dismissing your
idea out of hand, then had to apologize and really look at your idea.
Still, I think it says much that you're still not quite comfortable
enough to have already come to a solid point for discussion regarding
this idea.

If you were solid with it, you could have better arguments, better
points of view framings. You would have these on hand too, pass them out
like candy bits to hook the wee children.

As to your point of "society at large" seeming to ignore bisexuals,
well, here you go. What else is new? Look at history, look at myths.
Zeus loved ladies for sure, he also loved him some guys as well. He
raped one. In the olden context this means he abducted the guy, had
passionated sex with him and made him into his lover. The young guy
became enamored with Zeus.

Few know of this because "society at large" chooses to ignore it. They
choose to ignore that Alexander the Great also fucked men, as well as
women. In all honesty I do not see that ignoring as a statement that
bisexuals are inferior, not worth mention. I see it as a good sign that
"society at large" knows we exist, knows we are sacred stewards in a
way. We can be trusted, we are safe.

I see it as a comforting indifference. They know we exist but do not
mind, care because they realize we don't mind or care about them either.
We'll keep on keeping on with ourselves, our lovers regardless of
"them". They'll keep on keeping on regardless of "us". "Oh, hi! Great
to see you in passing. What's that you're going to Bora Bora? Cool, we
were there last week. You'll loves it, I'm sure. Okay, gotta run, off to
Hawaii this week." That to me is the "conversation" being presented.

But frankly I do not like the idea of "them" &/or "us". We are "all just
us". There is no separation to me. All is one and one is all. And yes,
being human I do have some other humans I dislike at times. More often
than not I dislike their actions, not them specifically.

Speaking of actions, you still aren't providing me with enough to break
this idea down to fit into my exploring of it. You keep slinging out
what I call a meta-argument. That is to say you're standing in a door
with a 10 gauge shotgun and spraying buckshot into the house and hoping
you hit someone. Sorry, you'll need a 22 caliber and to come hunt me.
Maybe you need to get close enough for a garrote.

I would like that. You can try choking me with your idea here. ;) It
might offer some insight into kinkiness that other children need to see,
or maybe let off a little steam. My point being you are not getting me
off on your idea, yet. You keep teasing but I am just not in the mood.

Your foreplay needs work, honey. Seduce me with your idea, make it
intimate, make it fit like a tight condom in a tight ass. Sorry if I am
being lewd but it is an adult themed site, and you do write so are aware
of metaphoric use, and euphemisms. That noted, I'm making clear what I
want. You're not giving it yet, still. *sighs deeply, shakes his noggin,
takes you by the hand and draws you close, holds you, kisses your lips,
lets you go and steps back* Mmm hm. You need to choke me with your idea.

I know you have the artistic capacity to do it. Know you have the
intellect. Barring these, you could at least dazzle me with bullshit. I
mean hey, a reach around can go a long way if done with a bit of love,
even if it is staged love. ;) Hopefully, in explaining your idea to me
like this, you'll learn something as well. I'll give you until next
Friday, think that's reasonable. Until then. *steps in, reaches down
your front and gives a gentle tug, releases and steps into the ethers to
vanish with a wink*

[newlynymphos]

Wow! So much dialogue! Heavy!

[elian]

My first thought watching the video was, "Yes, life isn't always fair (duh).." However, considering just how far we've come in 30 years it is amazing. I -never- thought I would see legal same sex marriage in my lifetime.

I watched the movie "Milk" and literally cried at two scenes in the movie - the first one was when they played "Somewhere over the rainbow" to footage of the some of the first pride parades in the 70s. The second one was when people flooded the streets with candles during the memorial..and my thinking wasn't just for "gay" people, but for all people who have had to struggle against self-esteem issues and prejudice because of innate traits.

There will always be people who feel a need to push the envelope, fine.. I happen to know that whether they want to admit it or not, most people love people of both genders to varying degrees in different ways.

If you talk to a lot of folks in the youngest generation coming up they don't even know why what we are talking about matters because they could care less who you love..

[void()]

If you talk to a lot of folks in the youngest
generation coming up they don't even know why what we are talking about
matters because they could care less who you love..

And that is more or less the point I am at. There really is no need in
judging others by whom they do or don't fuck.

No need either being judged for the same. I'm using the fuck word, but
it could be easily read as make love to. Apologies Drew, know you seek a
G rating, but in all honesty keying out fuck is rather too
easy. *chuckles*

Yes it's blunt, direct, honest. If it is too offensive on a mature site,
well don't read. I can be ignored easily enough. *grins* Point though,
it ought to not matter whom you do or don't bed. Another euphemism for
ya, there.

Had a psychologist once say of learning of my bisexuality, "oh, so you
love people. That's good, healthy even." Obviously bisexuality is not a
mere "disease" of the mind or psyche. Also, seems people in the
professions to know, do know. They do not care either beyond telling us
to use common sense, safe sex. That is their jobs, if they're worth even
half their pay.

Excuse me, off for a spell now. It seems recently my wife has taken more
keen interest in watching T.V. a bit more. *hugs elian* I ought to
invite you down soon too. Been rather limbering and desiring of doing
some riding of sorts. No better one for riding than a possible
husband. *smooches*

[void()]

Today is, Sat Jul 12 21:01:58 EDT 2014. Which means the Friday by when
tenni was to explain bisexual invisibility to me has passed. This also
means he did not offer such an explanation, for whatever reason.

This to me asserts, I have no need further considering the idea of
bisexual invisibility as one having valid implications for myself. That
is what I asked, for the idea he championed put into relevant context
for me.

He did not do this. Ergo, I can safely consider the idea having no
relevancy in my life. Further, when he enacts a fit of soap boxing
regarding this idea, I can ignore him, suggest he speak of it to others.

Okay, all done. :)

[elian]

I can explain it if you want - certain people feel as though bisexuality is ambiguous, ignored or subjugated compared to the other sexualities which are somewhat more visible and well defined. People like things that are well defined, people don't like things that are ambiguous..even though I feel like being able to live with a little ambiguity in life is a positive evolutionary trait.

I guess historically we probably have been marginalized because it sort of lends credence to the "slippery slope" argument that conservatives use, to say "First men, then women, what's next polygamy?" Well, yes, actually - a certain percentage of the bisexual community would like to have concurrent, publically recognizable relationships with both genders..and that right there stops us from being "mainstream" in many western societies..

There is a whole potential iceberg of thoughts and feelings surrounding this issue, but I contend that each bisexual person's situation/needs/desires can be different, they interact with different people, in different environments .. and hopefully find a situation that works for them.

[void()]

I can explain it if you want - certain people feel
as though bisexuality is ambiguous, ... I guess historically we probably
have been marginalized ...

Okay, thank you honey for the explaining of it. It still holds no
relevance for me, seeing the idea as lacking traction for evoking
response further than saying it is irrelevant to me. I could explain
why. Yet, when I see the idea as moot in and of itself, that sort of
seems moot as well.

Suffice it to say it the idea seems to be saying in simple terms:

Diversity is ambiguous, therefore it is marginalized.

Which only causes me to wear a blank face, shrug and say, "D'uh, took a
college degree huh?"

If society deems my existence marginalized and "unworthy". I can only
ask, why bother asking for society's approval to keep on keeping on at
any given?

Do I really need to be "mainstream", "normal"?

Who defines those words anyhow?

So, that in part is why it is irrelevant to me. That and thought of
a college degree comes up an essay about a moot idea, and they call
that "mainstream education". Not sure I'm insulting the student or
professor/s. Don't suppose it matters too much. Still a frightening
thought to me in seeing what "mainstream education" begets.

[elian]

Yes well, (speaking for myself) being able to describe something does not necessarily give you the experience and ability to understand it..I guess that's why life is lived in the first person.

[void()]

Yes well, (speaking for myself) being able to describe something does not necessarily give you the experience and ability to understand it..I guess that's why life is lived in the first person.

Fair enough point. And I think this idea was attempting to describe something. Still, in my experience (again only my own) what it describes seems irrelevant. Of course, I have not faced applying for a marriage license for both a husband & wife in our current society, yet either. Not sure I will. Again, why ask approval if "society" implies I do not exist? I'll just "be on my merry" regardless. :) That seems logical enough to me. *shrugs*

Then again, "I aim to misbehave." ;)

*ambles along to plot an idea regarding Mexican currency, 100,000 hamsters, two ferrets, a chainsaw, Silly Putty, bar of soap, resisting 30,000 volts of electricity and two pints of tea for washing it down*