Conflicted

[littlerayofsunshine]

Ok here goes, throwing myself out here. Please catch me gently.

My hubby has always had porn in his life, well that was, up until he met me. I am sort of anti-porn. Not meaning that its evil. Just mean that it has never done anything for me, nor do I wish to have it included in my life. He on the other hand, enjoyed it many years before I entered his life, and I made him do away with it. Yes. I am confessing that I did an evil and made him get rid of his much beloved porn stash. There, I said it. But please understand.. When we met and married I was from the south and he a yankee, I am an exhibitionist, he a voyeur. I was 21 when we married and he 27. We have had moments through out our marriage where he has said that he held some resentment to the fact that I banned porn from him. And I admit, I feel guilty. I understand that its my own problems as to why I don't like it. I understand that he is much his own individual and should be able to enjoy it. I guess I understand at least. I have tried to allow him, man thats a bad way to say it. Let me rephrase. I have given him permission to enjoy it again. Well I guess there's no pretty way to tie it in a bow, so I will move on.....I have apologized for my past actions in regards to it. Last night for the first time, he surfed porn while I was watching TV and I walked past him and saw what he was viewing and I felt disgust. Not at what he was watching, but at him for looking at it. It wasn't intentional. I was trying to hide the fact I felt it, but he could see it. I want to be a more open person about it. I want to get to a place to where it doesn't bother me that he views it. I just don't know how. I only have a small understanding as to why I am and feel this way. We have viewed porn together, and when I am in control of it. What the content is, and if it is ametuer, I don't get the ookie feeling. Low self-esteem. maybe I have a touch of that.. Some of it is history. Which I know he shouldn't be punished at all for.

I guess what I need, is insight.. A different perspective. Another way to cope I guess. I really want to change.... Well ultimately I would rather do what he is looking at then have him look at it. But thats another story for another day.

Am I a nutbag?

[TorontoGuy2007]

i feel the same way about porn. i'd rather do it myself than watch others do it. it totally makes me feel lonely and left out!

if you are an exhibitionist and are comfortable showing off your body to others, then i have a hard time beleiving that you have a low self-esteem. that takes tons of courage if you as me!

i don't think you need to worry about him watching porn. we all have our strange habbits and fetishes.. he probably just gets turned on by watching others have sex.. simple as that. it's not like he's going to compare them to you. it's not like the porn is filling any gaps that you think you may be leaving in the relationship..

perhaps it would help put you at ease if you got further details as to what it is about porn that he like so much.... maybe he can help put you in his shoes and you can at least gain some sort of an understanding as to what it does for him.

overall, ultimatums in any relationship don't usually go over too well. focus on communication, understanding, and consensus..

[littlerayofsunshine]

I agree with you Toronto and ty very much for your response. I do need to gain some further understanding from him. He has told me some things over the years, that porn doesn't turn him on to a point he wants sex, so its not like he would use it, or needs it to feel sexual with me. He says that he just likes watching it for no other reason than to watch it. Somethings I feel he may have been afraid to tell me, him knowing my stance and all. But maybe he will see that I am honestly making an effort to relenquish my ill feelings of it and trying to move on, maybe he will be able to open up more to me. I totally understand that ultimatums are a killer, and I never want that for us. That was the only one I ever dished out to him and I totally regretted it. We have come so far over the last 7 years and made it over many emotional humps and came out stronger and love each other more for it. The porn thing is just one last minor hump I would like to get past for him and in doing so I need help from others.

[TorontoGuy2007]

hope you can have a good chat with him and hopefully you can work out a compromise..

sometimes relationships are all about give and takes. if he's willing to tolerate your bi "encounters", then perhaps watching porn now and then is a fair trade off..

7 years together is a great accomplishment, and it shows that you are both committed to making it work. hope it all works out and you can continue to build a stronger and better relationship with him.

[DiamondDog]

It's porn, not a big deal in my book. It shows he has an imagination. ;)

Perhaps he's a voyuer?
Lots of people enjoy porn for various reasons, some people even watch it when having sex with their partner(s), or some people just enjoy using it for masturbatory purposes or fantasy purposes. Some people even watch it simply just to watch it and make fun of it or for a host of other reasons that don't have to do with sex.

Honestly, American het porn bores me for the most part. IMO it's really scripted, recycled footage, and you almost NEVER see a limp dick and I think that gay porn is a lot more realistic for the most part. Gay porn shows the penis in various states of arousal and it doesn't always show a viagarafied HARD cock constantly. I've never seen bi porn on video so I can't comment about that. Even as much as I dislike gay leather porn I think that it's more exciting than most het porn. I REALLY like european het porn though, a lot more than american porn.

Pornography, erupts into the open in periods of personal freedom, shows the dark truth about nature, concealed by the artifices of civilization. Pornography is about lust, our animal reality that will never be fully tamed by love. Lust is elemental, aggresive, asocial. Pornography allows us to explore our deepest, most forbidden selves.

I don't see porn as being exploitative of men or women either. I think that instead it gives them power.

I don't see anything wrong with anyone watching porn, much less legal adults.

What are some of the reasons that you don't like porn?

[NWMtnHawk]

I've read, re-read, and then read again this post of yours Lil'Ray, . . . and what came to my mind was to try and put myself in YOUR position to think from YOUR perspective.

Standing in your shoes and looking at this from your view, what I thought or wondered was; what is it about porn that bothers me. What is it that I find so disgustiing or repulsive? I felt that this approach would really be the first step towards figuring out the best way to handle this senario with my significant other and porn, or more to the point, myself and porn. I felt figuring out my issue(s), or my problem(s) with porn would be possibly more productive towards resolving this issue for me.

But I'm no head-shrink or doctor or anything like that, . . . I've just always tended towards introspection, and soul searching when I find some emotional hurtle in my life that has me over a barrel-so to speak. Just what I thought upon reading your post here. For all that I've read of your other posts, you've always struck me as a level headed and honest person.

[littlerayofsunshine]

sometimes relationships are all about give and takes. if he's willing to tolerate your bi "encounters", then perhaps watching porn now and then is a fair trade off..


We are both bi, and enjoy each others sexual encounters. If not the encounter itself, then the afterglow. Just to clarify :tong:



DiamondDog,

Thank you for your take on porn. I respect it and acknowlege it. It doesn't bother me that porn exists, that people watch it, crave it, act in it, simulate it. You wanna know why I don't like porn. I have to dig in a real ugly place to tell ya. It may not be appropriate for the forums, But I am all about honesty and my hubby is aware of what I am about to say...
Growing up, my father and my brother each had their own collection of pornography. Rather large collections. I was aware of this, having come across the mags and vids. As a child, they both molested and raped me. Not at the same time, mind you. And usually just after them having spent time with their collections. Not your average introduction to porn tale.
Later on as a teen, I had a live in boyfriend, who was a porn addict. He would order porn like it was glasses of water. I worked 60 hours a week serving burgers and fries to pay the cable bill. Let's just say it was a short lived romance. Within 2 weeks of my leaving him. His ass was in jail for raping a minor. To say the least, I do not associate porn and a close male figure with positive things. Putting this all aside now.

I understand that none of that is hubby's fault, that none of it has anything to do with him. As I have stated.. I understand it is my own issue and I don't want hubby punished for my insecurities, my experiences and associations. I was looking for support, new ideas, a different recording to play in my head to drowned out the old one. Maybe even a little encouragement. I was not my intention in my 1st post to condemn porn or anyones right to it. If that's what came across then I am deeply sorry.
As

[animated_Alan]

Porn has always been a part of my life. I've always watched/read it. From the straight stuff I "borrowed" from my Dad to the bi/gay/straight stuff I buy/download/read today. I guess I was really fortunate in that all my former girlfriends and both my ex-wife and Kara liked porn. But porn in NO way ever substituted for a regular healthy sex life.

After I came to my wife as bisexual, porn was a way to explore that part of myself. I started buying a lot of gay porn. Needless to say, my wife was concerned that I was buying gay porn (mostly magazines and a few videos). I explained that those materials was how I expressed that part of myself. I had a more than satisfactory "straight" sex life with Kara. The gay porn was just exercising that part of me. Then I started buying bi videos. Once Kara saw those, she found straight porn almost kind of dull. She doesn't like watching gay porn because that makes her feel almost excluded. Like even though we're watching it together, all I'm thinking about is being with a man. So I keep the gay stuff for when she's not home and I have the house to myself. The bi stuff is for when we actually have the time to lay back and take a little extra time (which isn't very often). But she knows that I view it without her and has come to understand that it is NOT a reflection on the way I feel about her or my satisfaction with our sex life. And it seems that way with you and your partner.

And I know exactly what you mean about the "permission" type of phrases. My marriage means more to me than anything, so any new area of exploration I want to do, I run past Kara first. She has final say. I don't feel it;s demeaning to me as a man or as a partner. But in something like this can be so damaging to a relationship that I make sure that she is ok with whatever is going on. I think it's simple respect. We use the words "lets" and "gives permission" but we know that, in no way, does that demean either of us. Admittedly, ultimatums are a killer and the fact that you regret it and are trying to make amends says WONDERS for you as a person. I really commend you for it.

But then...I'm new here, so it's really just my two cents (or less counting for inflation). I hope my perspective helps in some small way.

[littlerayofsunshine]

I've read, re-read, and then read again this post of yours Lil'Ray, . . . and what came to my mind was to try and put myself in YOUR position to think from YOUR perspective.

Standing in your shoes and looking at this from your view, what I thought or wondered was; what is it about porn that bothers me. What is it that I find so disgustiing or repulsive? I felt that this approach would really be the first step towards figuring out the best way to handle this senario with my significant other and porn, or more to the point, myself and porn. I felt figuring out my issue(s), or my problem(s) with porn would be possibly more productive towards resolving this issue for me.

But I'm no head-shrink or doctor or anything like that, . . . I've just always tended towards introspection, and soul searching when I find some emotional hurtle in my life that has me over a barrel-so to speak. Just what I thought upon reading your post here. For all that I've read of your other posts, you've always struck me as a level headed and honest person.


Hawk,

You just about made me cry. Would have worked too if I hadn't spurted tears over what I wrote to DiamondDog. Your intuition is very correct. I have worked and overcome most of my childhood challenges of being a victim of abuse. I have self-respect, a normal and wonderful sex-life, an open heart and mind, lost the fear and the shame. I supposed the porn issue is one last demon I have to fight from it all. And I am ready to deal with it head on. I attended therapy in the past, during our marriage and tried to work on it then, but I guess I just wasn't ready till now. I can't go back to therapy right now. No money, no insurance. But sometimes the best teachers are life and friends. I came here, to my second home, to all the wonderful open caring people here, like you. Thanks you for taking so much time, for looking deeper, for placing yourself in my shoes, for thinking of me. It really means alot to me. Oh shit, now ya dun did it. Imma cryin.

[TorontoGuy2007]

littleray, sorry to hear you went thru abuse in your past. could be that something in your mind is connecting the abuse to porn. if this is the case, it may be best to face your demons and fears head on.

even if you totally don't like the idea, try spending an evening with your husband in front of the tv watching a porn video together.

let him hold you in his arms while watching it. just cuddle up and enjoy his warmth.. maybe this will be a way to match porn with love, instead of these negatives from your past.. just a thought..

not sure what else to say. i too have demons that i have dealt with for years, and no matter what, i just can't seem to kick them.. i always try to face my fears head on so i can overcome them.

anyway, thanks for opening up and sharing stuff on here.. it takes a brave person to admit fear and seek help. i totally admire you for that!

[littlerayofsunshine]

Porn has always been a part of my life. I've always watched/read it. From the straight stuff I "borrowed" from my Dad to the bi/gay/straight stuff I buy/download/read today. I guess I was really fortunate in that all my former girlfriends and both my ex-wife and Kara liked porn. But porn in NO way ever substituted for a regular healthy sex life.

After I came to my wife as bisexual, porn was a way to explore that part of myself. I started buying a lot of gay porn. Needless to say, my wife was concerned that I was buying gay porn (mostly magazines and a few videos). I explained that those materials was how I expressed that part of myself. I had a more than satisfactory "straight" sex life with Kara. The gay porn was just exercising that part of me. Then I started buying bi videos. Once Kara saw those, she found straight porn almost kind of dull. She doesn't like watching gay porn because that makes her feel almost excluded. Like even though we're watching it together, all I'm thinking about is being with a man. So I keep the gay stuff for when she's not home and I have the house to myself. The bi stuff is for when we actually have the time to lay back and take a little extra time (which isn't very often). But she knows that I view it without her and has come to understand that it is NOT a reflection on the way I feel about her or my satisfaction with our sex life. And it seems that way with you and your partner.

And I know exactly what you mean about the "permission" type of phrases. My marriage means more to me than anything, so any new area of exploration I want to do, I run past Kara first. She has final say. I don't feel it;s demeaning to me as a man or as a partner. But in something like this can be so damaging to a relationship that I make sure that she is ok with whatever is going on. I think it's simple respect. We use the words "lets" and "gives permission" but we know that, in no way, does that demean either of us. Admittedly, ultimatums are a killer and the fact that you regret it and are trying to make amends says WONDERS for you as a person. I really commend you for it.

But then...I'm new here, so it's really just my two cents (or less counting for inflation). I hope my perspective helps in some small way.


Thank you for sparing all the cents you can, tis the holiday season of giving a sharing and I need every spare cent available :tongue:

Welcome to the site. Its a wonderful place, to laugh and share, normally posts aren't as dark or bleak as the one I made, but I am honored you found it worthy to answer. I thank you for helping to place into better words and giving more understanding to the terms lets and permission. I have much respect for you and your deep involvement in your marriage. I very much agree that it is important to give respect to the other spouse on such a volitile issues, not meaning directly porn, but more of love and sex within marriage.

[littlerayofsunshine]

Toronto,

You have a very good idea, working on re-associating it. I will have to talk in depth to hubby about it, Its not the sort of thing that would cure itself over night. But if he can be patient with me I will definatley try my damnedest. TY so much hun :)

[animated_Alan]

LittleRay,

Thanks so much for your kind words. They really meant a lot to me. Kara and I have been through a lot in the years "post-disclosure", so to think that our experiences may help others is immensely gratifying.

Reading subsequent posts really brought on a whole new perspective. Given your past experiences, of course, you associate have less-than-warm-and-fuzzy feelings about porn....how could you NOT? The fact that you've been able to sustain a marriage is a testament to you as a person. Experiences such as yours have broken those not blessed with your capacity to overcome.

When I met Kara, she had just come out of a very abusive relationship, both physical and emotional. We've had to work out many issues in our 13 years of marriage, not the least of which was the revelation of my sexuality.

I wish the best for both you and your husband. If I can be of any help (just offering a new perspective) please let me know.

[Herbwoman39]

I have worked and overcome most of my childhood challenges of being a victim of abuse.

Ray, sweetie, I know this is off topic but I just have to tell you, you are NOT a victim. You, my dear woman, are a SURVIVOR! You're learning to overcome what happened to you and you are a stronger person for that.

When someone calls themselves a victim, that implies that they are helpless and that gives the rapist power in their mind. You are SO much better than that, SO much stronger. My dear, you ARE a survivor.

My situation isn't quite the same. I'm a two time rape survivor from my late 20's. Once by a man who I thought was a friend and once, anally, by my first husband. I survived, I am NO ONE'S victim.

Neither are you. You are stronger and better than the people who did this to you.

Porn is just an issue to work on. Nothing more.

[littlerayofsunshine]

Alan,

Ty for sharing your truth and Kara's story and for the help. Indeed all are difficult things to do. Getting down to the heart of things, builds a solid foundation. Within ourselves and our relationships and interactions with others, struggles are only temporary Compared to the length and lasting effects of deep love (self and relationship)

Ty for validating my feelings. Something like that works miracles and helps me feel less alone.


Congrats for a strong 13 years and blessing for many more. You and Kara sound strong and compassionate.

[littlerayofsunshine]

Herbwoman,

TY for sharing with me. What you said is deeply touching. I know it sounded as if I was calling myself a victim as I am now. I was a victim as a helpless child. Being abused as a child, one developes defenses that become part of your personality, the fiber of who you are. I was that child. It was hard work, getting re-wired. I know I am a survivor, and I am proud to say so.

I can see your strength, hell I can feel it in most of everything you write. You are an amazing woman. I am wiht you, We are no one's victim now.


(((((hugs))))))))

[Long Duck Dong]

lil ray, hun...

you have compromised with ya hubby,,..i understand fully your feelings
so my advice is simply, hun... don't push yourself to watch it or work yourself to the point of where you can handle watching it, if porn is NOT your thing...
its a bit like a gay male putting pressure on themselves to get a erection over females..... its not like it needs to happen

lord grant me the strength to change the things i can change, the peace to accept the things I can't, the wisdom to know the different... and the power to be myself, warts and all

I refuse to accept that some things have to be changed... specially if they are not gonna improve the ability of the person to smile, love and laugh...

i read about your father and your brother....and sadly, its not the first time i has seen this or counselled survivors and offenders.....i understand how their actions impacted in your life.... and I also understand the damage it has done to them....
you lost your ability to trust and respect members of your own family.... thats hard cos we only have one family... and members of your family abused your body.... but they never destroyed own lil ray of sunshine that shines brightly in bisexual.com... nor did they destroy the lil ray of sunshine that shines so brightly in a certain mans life......

watching porn will not make you smile brighter... it will not erase the past....it will never heal the memories of some experiences .....

and the same advice applies to anybody that doesn't enjoy watching porn.... its ok to compromise with your partner if they want to watch it... but it DOESN'T mean that you have to watch it, or enjoy it

i speak as a friend, a fellow member of bisexual.com and a counsellor that deals with survivors and offenders of sexual natured experiences....when i ask for you to remain our lil ray of sunshine... and never let anybody eclipse our lil ray of sunshine

btw... i respect ya hubby too, lol...can you talk to him about hiding the porn when you walk into the room, just so you don't have to see it.... but for him to be open about it and if you ask what he is watching, for him to tell you honestly
you may never grow to like porn or porn watching hun...but its easier to know what he is doing and no have to see it, than it is, to wonder what he is doing, and see it, to actually know for sure

with a dash of trust, a touch of love and a pinch of respect and a lot of lil rays of sunshine and hubbys help....the sun will never go down behind the horizon again

[littlerayofsunshine]

Long Duck Dong,

First off I want to say I love your handle. My hubby is asain and I am taller than he and when we hug and dance, its just like that scene from "Sixteen Candles". He loves to comment on my Big American Breasts in a fake accent. lol

He was surfing the porn last night, with my re-assurance it was ok. We have discussed that I would allow, give permission, for him to do so. He felt safe in what I said. I am normally one who can stick by anything I say. But when I happened to walk by, the feelings bubbled up. Almost unexpectedly. He once called me a hippocrit, and to some extent he is right. It's two sides battling, the good wife, and the scared child. The site he was looking at was one that was a link given to me by a bisex.com friend and I bookmarked it for him. I have other sites that I have done the same with. All with the intention I was going to be able to deal with it all unscathed. We have sat together and surfed these sites together. When I am holding the mouse and clicking what I am comfortable with then I don't get the ookie feelings as I put before. But thats not fair to him. I don't want it to be that way, I don't want to have to sit there and be in control of his fun or pleasure, what good is that. I want to get to a point where I can be in another room, farting around and not have a care of it and he can feel free to do what he wants. I don't want him to ever feel he needs to hide it, I don't want him to be scared of my reaction, I want him to feel safe with me, I want to not have a reaction. I also don't want to endure silence or biting my tongue.
He has read everything that has been written here. From all of us. I am so happy he is not angry at me for putting this out here. He sees my intentions and understands a little better as to why I had my reaction last night. He is supportive of me, which I deeply appreciate. Even though all of this great, even though this doesn't solve the issue, it does however give a stronger foundation for the work to be done.


TY for all your kind words, Can I call you Ducky? or Dongy? (I had to throw a funny in there, I really need the smile) They are so uplifting to me. A wonderful and juicy bite of humanity.

[LoveLion]

Id just like to start by saying how strong you must be lil. Iv know people who have gone through similar things as you and it has destroyed their lives. abuse is a terrible thing and to overcome it must be a challenge I cant even begin to imagine.

I dont think it is really unfair to ask your hubby to steer clear of pron seeing how it makes you feel. Im sure he doesnt mean to or want you to feel that way, and you dont want to let him become a "lesser" man in your eyes by letting him view porn when your uncomfortable with it.

The solution? well, like most things in life there is no easy solution I imagine. You may need to kinda, re-program porn into your mind like someone suggested earlier. Take small and slow steps. Start by going through it together with you controlling the mouse, then maybe after a while let him control it with you telling him where to go on the sites. After that maybe you could let him roam freely with you in the room but you reserve the ability to let tell him to stop at anytime. Then maybe at that point you will feel more comfortable just letting him browse on his own. Another thing you could try is exploring (or re-discovering) porn on your own. Thats how most people are introduced to it in their lives and it could be a helpful experience in accepting porn.

I am by no means an expert on the subject and I wish I could offer more advice. I do admire you strength and courage and beleive that you can over come anything that you set your mind to.

Stay Strong
-LL

[csrakate]

Lil Ray,
You have taken a very big step in realizing what may be the source of your discomfort with your husband viewing porn. While that may not fix the situation, it certainly opens a door that will enable you to confront the feelings that you have and hopefully discover a path of healing to help you overcome the horror of your childhood trauma. That being said, you need to forget the feelings of guilt you have over your reactions to his viewing these sites and the fact that you asked him not to do so and recognize that it is not based on you trying to control him. In reality your reactions seem to be gut reactions to things that happened to you and as a result, they evoke feelings that make you feel threatened again.

From what I can tell by our chats, you and your husband have a very loving relationship and the two of you seem to be very honest and open with one another. I encourage you to continue to talk to him openly about your feelings and also to allow him to share his feelings as well...feelings that may show you that his porn habits are NOT the same as those of your father and brother and that his love for you would never allow him to objectify you or treat you any differently than he already has during your obviously happy marriage. I am also sure that he will no longer consider you a hypocrite for asking him to throw out his porn stash now that he understands why you feel so strongly about it.

My heart aches for you that you had to suffer such horrific events during your young life and I pray that you may one day find a way to heal. In the meantime, it might be nice if your husband is a bit more discreet while viewing these sites, at least until you have a chance to return to therapy where you can begin the real work necessary to deal with your past. I wish only the best for you and please know that I am always here for you if you need someone to vent to.

Hugs,
Kate

[Long Duck Dong]

lol lil ray,,, * gives you and hubby a big hug *

baby steps... just baby steps....lol and that is how you will get thru ....

one trick i use, is i write out all my feelings and frustrations and emotions into a post, and never post it.... cos be the time i have emptied out the crap in me... I feel good and can't stand the idea of people seeing that I have bad days.... just never do it in a email.... i did once... and accidently sent it.... msn communities recieved a email with about 3000 swearwords in it.....i think the exact count was 2997...i remember that cos they emailed me back and told me, that if i ever sent a email like that again, i would get a lifetime ban from msn including any new accounts i may start up lol

yeah the name, long dong dong is from 16 candles...the asian exchange student.... bit of a contradiction in terms... as most asians are not well hung lol

and ducky is fine.... lol actually the most common name i have is * poet * ( from my days writing as the spellweaving poet )... ducky kinda sounds like a slightly nerdy, gay acting guy.... and yeah in a sense i am lol

[littlerayofsunshine]

LoveLion,

Those are all very good suggestions. I feel they are all worth considering. I will keep you informed about our progress, when we do start to work on it. Thank you hun. You are wise :)



(((((Kate)))))) You are always there for me. Ya know what I need, I need a girlfriend, sitting with me on the couch, cuddling and *ya know* while he's surfing and that way My mind will be too busy and focused on other pleasureable things. How's friday night for you? Can't blame a bi-girl for tryin...lol OK, its been a while since I had my big mouth flappin in chat and I couldn't resist. :bigrin:

On a more serious note. TY.. I do need to be more open to his feelings on it. I have listened to him in the past over it, with my ears open and my heart closed. I am ready now. Seriously I am. In the wise words of Larry The Cable Guy "Git'er Done" :) This issue is not a prominate issue, its not one we deal with on a daily, weekly or monthly basis. Its important though. For my love of me, and my love and respect for him. It's one that should be delt with, at a slow and steady pace. With lots of awesome kick ass sex inbetween intervals (care to join? :bigrin: ) You can spank me later for that one. :wiggle2:

Hey I just noticed, I feel lighter today. I got me some funny back.. Hubby gave me a deep hug last night after reading everything and us having some discussion on it. Reassured me that he wasn't angry or embarrassed by anything. "TLC" I guess I needed it.



*Hugs Ducky*
Oh I have done that too, with posts on here. Write it all out and decided I feel good enough expressing those thoughts and feelings just for myself, that I don't post it. I have marble notebook after marble notebook, of moments, of history, of dreams for the future. Peoms and letters I can never send.
lol@you cursing at msn. Sorry for laughing but its the first time I have ever heard anything like that. That sounds like something I would do.

[csrakate]

LilRay,
Now that you've got your funny back, hun....dayammmmmm.....had I realized that my "bending" a bit would be so helpful, I would have done so long ago!! LOL!!!

Seriously, glad to see you smiling again. Sometimes just venting a bit about a bad situation can do worlds of good. So...that being said, get your ass back in chat and let us enjoy your wonderful sense of humor and naughty comments!!! I am sure showme would enjoy a little extra "sunshine on his shoulders"!!!


Hugs,
Kate

[Herbwoman39]

We are no one's victim now.

Amen to that sweetie! ((((((((((HUGS))))))))))

And thank you for the kind words.