New PM for Britain Soon

[Solomon]

well.... there we go Blair's resigned, now soon as Bush is officially out i 'spose we'll see just how well a dem'll do in office with the balance of power for once being in the dem's favor..... and we'll finally get to see how this changes things

think i'm just gonna stay in Canada for awhile 'till the dust at least somewhat settles

[12voltman59]

Can't wait to see Bush ride his horse off into the Texas sunset--I just hope we don't get someone as bad or worse!!!!!!!

[Doggie_Wood]

Can't wait to see Bush ride his horse off into the Texas sunset--I just hope we don't get someone as bad or worse!!!!!!!
If you look at the way the government has spun toward eventual destruction and implosion and who we have to chose from (both sides) it can only be worse. :2cents:

[Solomon]

If you look at the way the government has spun toward eventual destruction and implosion and who we have to chose from (both sides) it can only be worse. :2cents:

unfortunately, i've been told that too..... and not by people with PhD's, but by the people who pay the PhD's

and the demographics aren't going to change just because the politicians do

there's still a huge bubble of the population that's starting to retire... and from what i understand the system's already getting stressed because of it

[izzfan]

I have to admit that I was somewhat cheerful to hear of Blair's departure and I think that the person who put the amendment in the US constitution which meant that presidents could serve for a maximum of 2 terms should be given a medal or something.

Finally, the years of Blair and Bush [nearly a decade!!!] are over and hopefully there will be a better political climate.... then again, the idea of Gordon Brown or that annoying David Cameron as the next PM doesn't exactly make me overjoyed. Although I think America is in dire need of a democrat government and Britain is in dire need of a better government, one which is a good blend of liberalism and conservatism.

Anyway, give it another decade and we'll probably all be looking back at Bush/Blair's reign with a kind of nostalgia.

Izzfan :flag3:

[julie]

...Well, I voted for Tony Blair and believe that he and his government have done a pretty decent job over the past ten years.

...that said, Iraq is horrific. I do not understand it. I marched against it alongside my children and, along with much of the rest of my country, still grieve daily at its madness and futility.

...Yes I am glad he has finally resigned, it is time for a different leadership. I'm just saying I don't regret voting for him and am not going to pretend I didn't.

Julie.

[12voltman59]

I have to admit that I was somewhat cheerful to hear of Blair's departure and I think that the person who put the amendment in the US constitution which meant that presidents could serve for a maximum of 2 terms should be given a medal or something.

Finally, the years of Blair and Bush [nearly a decade!!!] are over and hopefully there will be a better political climate.... then again, the idea of Gordon Brown or that annoying David Cameron as the next PM doesn't exactly make me overjoyed. Although I think America is in dire need of a democrat government and Britain is in dire need of a better government, one which is a good blend of liberalism and conservatism.

Anyway, give it another decade and we'll probably all be looking back at Bush/Blair's reign with a kind of nostalgia.

Izzfan :flag3:

I don't know about things in the UK regarding Blair, but I will bet dimes to donuts that there will be no nostalgia over the days of George W. Bush, save maybe a few of the most ardeng Kool-Aide addicts who think he is the best thing since sliced white bread-----but for the rest of us---it will be good riddiance to see the Bush era come to an end----and hopefully--whoever the next president is--he or SHE will be able to undo the damage done by Bush and Company in so many categories such as foreign policy and diplomacy, and the way the war in Iraq is doing great harm to our military...

[darkeyes]

I have never voted for Blair ever. The man is a charlatan politician, an opportunist with teeth, but ruthless.. I was a little too young to vote when he was 1st elected, and if I did vote Labour in the following elction, I did not vote for the man, but the party which happened to have the policies which were closest 2 my vision of the world, and the party in which I had been raised all my life. I refused at the last election to vote for Labour, not because I had left the party which I hadnt, but because it was no longer that I viewed as the party of ordinary people, was no longer a party of peace and could no longer be trusted to deliver on matters I believed important..why?? Because of Tony Blair, who hi-jacked the spirit and soul of the party, and turned it into a Tory party with a social conciense, had isolated and decimated those who are its true soul with the ruthlessness and smarm of his Tory Party heritage..

Whether Gordon Brown, a modernist hmself, but a true democratic socialist in the traditional right wing Labour manner can or is prepared to return my party to its roots, to its true legacy and return its soul I cannot say. My heritage is on the left of the party, and there I remain, and at least Blairs passing gives me some hope..

My concern is that should Brown not return my party to its roots, return its soul, in to 10 Downing sreet shall step an man of ultra smoothness, and sick main smarm, even more so than Blair, and who shall bring upon my country the return of true blue Toryism which has served this country so ill in the past. Cameron is quite simply awful, a moderniser he says to bring his party into the 21st century...but the history of that party and its modernisers, from Pitt the younger to Peel, through to Disraeli, to Heath and Thatcher, is that their aim is but one thing..the dedicaton to the retention of power and wealth to an elite, and the retention of a full blooded unfettered capitalist economy which in the end is good for a few, and will be to the detriment if the overwhelming majority of ordinary people.

[Solomon]

yep, let the taxes rise, the retirement funds get cut, and the nuclear holocaust happen

i'm sure it's gonna be a blast!

[darkeyes]

Im not absolutely sure who or what you are getting at Sol, but I dont mind paying high taxes if it means getting the kind of society I dream of. In Europe we are not quite so paranoid about taxation as you lot, and most agree that tax has to be paid as price to achieve the kind of society we wish to see. The argument is which taxation system is fairest to all, and will help us achieve our ends.

Also company pension funds gettin cut are usually decisions made by other than the pension fund managers...ie the employers executive as often as not to either bail themselves out of a mess or fund some new scheme which in the end screws up and cuts pensions for the workforce..invariably it is robbery pure and simple...companies should not have access to pension funds yet half the time control the bloody things, and the other half can get their grubby little hands on the money by hook or by crook. Personal pension funds are a different thing yet even here there is a great deal of shady practice, not caused by socialist or social democratic governments but by bent and dishonest pension fund companies. State Pensions are another issue again, where the ability to pay decent state pensions (which people contribute to all their working lives) is being increasingly hamstrung by the fact that we live longer, and many nations are attempting to come to grips with how best to ovecome that.

And it will not be the government of any democratic socialist or socialist democracy (subtle yet important distinction between the 2) which is responsible for any nuclear holocaust, of that I am 100% convinced....

[Solomon]

Im not absolutely sure who or what you are getting at Sol, but I dont mind paying high taxes if it means getting the kind of society I dream of. In Europe we are not quite so paranoid about taxation as you lot, and most agree that tax has to be paid as price to achieve the kind of society we wish to see. The argument is which taxation system is fairest to all, and will help us achieve our ends.

Also company pension funds gettin cut are usually decisions made by other than the pension fund managers...ie the employers executive as often as not to either bail themselves out of a mess or fund some new scheme which in the end screws up and cuts pensions for the workforce..invariably it is robbery pure and simple...companies should not have access to pension funds yet half the time control the bloody things, and the other half can get their grubby little hands on the money by hook or by crook. Personal pension funds are a different thing yet even here there is a great deal of shady practice, not caused by socialist or social democratic governments but by bent and dishonest pension fund companies. State Pensions are another issue again, where the ability to pay decent state pensions (which people contribute to all their working lives) is being increasingly hamstrung by the fact that we live longer, and many nations are attempting to come to grips with how best to ovecome that.

And it will not be the government of any democratic socialist or socialist democracy (subtle yet important distinction between the 2) which is responsible for any nuclear holocaust, of that I am 100% convinced....

high taxes... i was refering to the Democrats that have great ideas like national health insurance, and stem cell research, and etc.. but where are they going to take the money from?

retirement fund cutting.... you're right in that many companies mismanage their pensions.... the U.S. government is no exception to that, and the fact is still that a large bubble of the population is already starting to retire...

and as far as a nuclear holocaust goes... i doubt that it would matter who started it, 'cuz noone would be around to care

[darkeyes]

high taxes... i was refering to the Democrats that have great ideas like national health insurance, and stem cell research, and etc.. but where are they going to take the money from?

retirement fund cutting.... you're right in that many companies mismanage their pensions.... the U.S. government is no exception to that, and the fact is still that a large bubble of the population is already starting to retire...

and as far as a nuclear holocaust goes... i doubt that it would matter who started it, 'cuz noone would be around to care
1. Your pocket Sol..who elses??..and quite right. To fund a proper National Health Service free at point of use to all those who need it, irrespective of income, thus eliminating the need for private or company health insurance, and the making of huge profits off the backs of human misery is an essential tenet of any modern civilised society, where decent health care does not depend on how much you are worth, and where continuation of treatment does not depend on how much you can afford.

..and we agree about any holocaust that really it doesnt matter who started it..but like anything else, I would rather die innocent of that, whether or not I have to stand before my maker, should she exist, to justify why... I prefer when I die to be guilty of having lived and lived well, if naughty...

[julie]

Im not absolutely sure who or what you are getting at Sol, but I dont mind paying high taxes if it means getting the kind of society I dream of. In Europe we are not quite so paranoid about taxation as you lot, and most agree that tax has to be paid as price to achieve the kind of society we wish to see. The argument is which taxation system is fairest to all, and will help us achieve our ends.

Also company pension funds gettin cut are usually decisions made by other than the pension fund managers...ie the employers executive as often as not to either bail themselves out of a mess or fund some new scheme which in the end screws up and cuts pensions for the workforce..invariably it is robbery pure and simple...companies should not have access to pension funds yet half the time control the bloody things, and the other half can get their grubby little hands on the money by hook or by crook. Personal pension funds are a different thing yet even here there is a great deal of shady practice, not caused by socialist or social democratic governments but by bent and dishonest pension fund companies. State Pensions are another issue again, where the ability to pay decent state pensions (which people contribute to all their working lives) is being increasingly hamstrung by the fact that we live longer, and many nations are attempting to come to grips with how best to ovecome that.

And it will not be the government of any democratic socialist or socialist democracy (subtle yet important distinction between the 2) which is responsible for any nuclear holocaust, of that I am 100% convinced....

We may differ on how much we will ethically tolerate from our party leaders before we withhold our votes Fran.... I do, wholeheartedly, share your ideals though.

I started my nurse training within months of Thatcher coming to power and saw, first hand, the systematic devastation of the NHS. Even typing this, 27 years on, I am moved and physically heaving at the flashback memories of that dehumanising process.

I am glad that the physical, emotional and spiritual repulsion i feel will never fade. It reminds me I am still alive.

I questioned my loyalty to vote Labour in the last election, mainly because of Iraq but for many other idealogical reasons too. I did vote Labour though, because, in England (I appreciate, thanks to Tony Blairs government actually, Scottish parliament is different), if Labour dont get in then Conservative do.

I never want to see another Tory government in power in my lifetime and I refuse to waste my vote which my female predecessors fought so valiantly for.

So, I say all this as a mark of my solidarity with your socialist and democratic principles Fran :bipride:

Julie.

[darkeyes]

Julie, We arent so far apart Im glad to say. The thought of another Tory government frightens the life out of me. Memories of the last one are still relatively fresh, even though I was very young, and I have the advantage of parents who will never let me forget just how bad they were. Its not that I have simply followed their example, I havent, for politically while essentially being on the same side, we have many differences which they a little condescendingly put down to the idealism and enthusiasm of the young.

Its scares me quite a lot the thought of sleezebag Cameron and his gang of suits taking power in the UK. I can almost smell the scent of really bad cologne on their person and sincerity, and know that however nice they seem to be, that pretty quickly they will revert to being what Tories always have been.. greaseballs who will make things worse for the majority of people in the guise of improving the nations health, and lining their own and their mates pockets in the meantime.

I share your repulsion of them, and they quite simpy make me cringe. My great fear is that they are elected on a racist platform, not provided by them directly, but because the Labour party leader, Brown I assume has a Scots accent, and because of that, and for no other reason so much of what is known as middle England, especially in the very well heeled south east, votes Tory because of an unhealthy xenophobic belief that Labour are led by one who is not one of them. There are already very alarming signs of this happening, and the media is to the fore in this... forget policy..get the scots yobbo...

With regard to Scotland and the Scottish Parliament, I have an equal repulsion of Nationalism, and am a little concerned that my country may just end the Union. But while the Nationalists may be wrong in promoting an independent Scotland, at least with regard to domestic policy they are a party of the left, and the reality of Governing Scotland, will probably swing things round again by the time the next election comes. What is disconcerting though, is should Cameron and the Tories take power in the UK... the clashes between UK and Scottish governments may just tip us over into full blown independence and that I find terrifying. The Tories are nothing if not devious bastards and I would not put it past them to engineer by stealth the end of the UK, knowing that really they have no power base north of the border, and that without Scotland they would almost be guaranteed permanent power south of it.. poor England, for if there is a similar upsurge of Nationalism in Wales (another culturally and politically left of centre nation) as a result of Tory policy, take away the almost...

The economic power of the UK is in the South East, and while Scotland and Wales could undoubtedly run themselves pretty well as independent nations within or without the EU, that very fact, the dragging into the south east of most of the wealth of the UK as a whole is an insidious and dangerous development which moves with ever increasing speed, to the detriment of Scotland Wales and the English regions farthest from the economic and poltical centre.

Thanks for the solidarity Jules... before too long hun, we may just need it and more...

[julie]

...i'm with you girl :bigrin: x

[darkeyes]

...i'm with you girl :bigrin: x
oooo Jules...that a proposotion...tee hee... :tongue:

[julie]

oooo Jules...that a proposotion...tee hee... :tongue:

Eeeeh give over girl... i'm old enough to be your mother :nrrdgrrl:

:suave:

huge hugs, j xxx

[darkeyes]

Eeeeh give over girl... i'm old enough to be your mother :nrrdgrrl:

:suave:

huge hugs, j xxx
tee hee... u r??? but u not me mum....if ya wer we wud b arguin all time an u wud b on at me 2 hav babies....lol

[Solomon]

1. Your pocket Sol..who elses??..and quite right. To fund a proper National Health Service free at point of use to all those who need it, irrespective of income, thus eliminating the need for private or company health insurance, and the making of huge profits off the backs of human misery is an essential tenet of any modern civilised society, where decent health care does not depend on how much you are worth, and where continuation of treatment does not depend on how much you can afford.

..and we agree about any holocaust that really it doesnt matter who started it..but like anything else, I would rather die innocent of that, whether or not I have to stand before my maker, should she exist, to justify why... I prefer when I die to be guilty of having lived and lived well, if naughty...

yep.... up here in Canada they pay for it in taxes bigtime!

and it really scares the bejesus outta me that anyone's got nukes let alone the extremists? if they have a chance to develop'em we won't hafta worry about the time it takes to post on here :( :(

from what i understand and i could be wrong, but if the computers detect a nuclear attack and auto retaliate, noone would be able to shut it off