the Denial of BI

[tinkslite]

I was stunned at the reaction of some lesbian friends when I recently came out to them as Bi. They were so vicious in thier denial of the existence of bisexuality. I am hetero and just want to use another woman to "turn on" my husband. Not true. I am really a lesbian and afraid to come out, even to myself. Also not true.
Then they started saying that it was insensitive of me to come out to them because they don't have the same legal priveleges that I, as a straight person, have. That it was tantamount to throwing my priveleged social class in their faces.
I was totally stunned. I have not seen this side of these women.. I was not coming on to them. I just felt like sharing this important part of my being.
Anyone else ever see this sort of thing from gay friends/acquaitances? :bibounce:

[Azrael]

I was stunned at the reaction of some lesbian friends when I recently came out to them as Bi. They were so vicious in thier denial of the existence of bisexuality. I am hetero and just want to use another woman to "turn on" my husband. Not true. I am really a lesbian and afraid to come out, even to myself. Also not true.
Then they started saying that it was insensitive of me to come out to them because they don't have the same legal priveleges that I, as a straight person, have. That it was tantamount to throwing my priveleged social class in their faces.
I was totally stunned. I have not seen this side of these women.. I was not coming on to them. I just felt like sharing this important part of my being.
Anyone else ever see this sort of thing from gay friends/acquaitances? :bibounce:
My ex-g/f's mom more than once or twice lectured me about how I needed to choose a side. My ex-b/f (who's gay) told me I was "confused", but eventually backed off and accepted it. I think part of it is a lot of people get into their Gay "identity" and feel threatened by people who blur the lines so to say. Fuck them if they don't get it. You're among friends here, myself included. If you ever have something on your mind or need to get something out of your system, don't hesitate to drop me a line. I've been there and I know how much it sucks. All people like us have is each other. :bibounce:

[biwords]

I was stunned at the reaction of some lesbian friends when I recently came out to them as Bi. They were so vicious in thier denial of the existence of bisexuality. I am hetero and just want to use another woman to "turn on" my husband. Not true. I am really a lesbian and afraid to come out, even to myself. Also not true.
Then they started saying that it was insensitive of me to come out to them because they don't have the same legal priveleges that I, as a straight person, have. That it was tantamount to throwing my priveleged social class in their faces.
I was totally stunned. I have not seen this side of these women.. I was not coming on to them. I just felt like sharing this important part of my being.
Anyone else ever see this sort of thing from gay friends/acquaitances? :bibounce:

These don't sound like 'friends' to me.
My gay cousin, Ken, does not hate bis but does say he'd never trust one in a relationship, because 'in the end, they'll always leave you for a woman'.

[Herbwoman39]

Awwww (((((((((((((((((((tinkslite)))))))))))))))) I'm so sorry you had such a bad experience.

It sounds to me like they're so wrapped up in their beliefs that it's interfered with their ability to be open-minded and receptive to who you really are.

Give them a little time. Maybe if you talk to them individually.

[Skater Boy]

These don't sound like 'friends' to me.
My gay cousin, Ken, does not hate bis but does say he'd never trust one in a relationship, because 'in the end, they'll always leave you for a woman'.

No, they don't sound like friends... at least not GOOD ones. As for not trusting Bisexuals in a relationship because they'll always leave you for someone of the opposite sex... thats BS. Many Bisexuals can handle monogamy just fine. I guess it does help if you have an open-minded partner who is willing to experiment though.

[ghytifrdnr]

These don't sound like 'friends' to me.
My gay cousin, Ken, does not hate bis but does say he'd never trust one in a relationship, because 'in the end, they'll always leave you for a woman'.

I just can't understand why that argument always has to be exclusive instead of inclusive. Why does having sex with more than one person have to always imply leaving one for the other. I think poly is so tough to make work only because so many have been brainwashed into monogamy. :soapbox:

[Azrael]

I just can't understand why that argument always has to be exclusive instead of inclusive. Why does having sex with more than one person have to always imply leaving one for the other. I think poly is so tough to make work only because so many have been brainwashed into monogamy. :soapbox:
Agreed. Well put.

[secrets2729]

I recently considered coming out as bi to my gay cousin, thinking he would understand as he's gone through all kinds of crap coming out as gay. First I asked him what he thought of bisexuals. His response was something like, "I don't believe they actually exist. In my opinion, people need to pick a camp and stay in it." I decided to keep my mouth shut after that!
Unfortunately, his seems to be a common opinion in the GL community, what little I have seen of it.
I get the feeling that, especially with bi women, lesbians are especially wary of us just b/c the "wife with another woman" fantasy is so common in men.

[tinkslite]

I guess a lot of men do fantasize about that. However, this is about MY sexuality, not Alans.
He wouldn't argue, I'm sure. But he hasn't said anything like that, just that if I want to date, be involved with, get intimate with a woman he's okay and supportive of it.
I don't like the you don't exist, or pick a side crap. That feels so demeaning. Like "your feelings of attraction to both men and women makes me more invisible so you have to go away."
hmmmmmmmmm :three:

[Azrael]

Give this a read. For me it was like finding buried treasure!
http://www.amazon.com/Bi-Any-Other-Name-Bisexual/dp/1555831745/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-5080476-2141526?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181599965&sr=1-1

[TaylorMade]

aww, I'm sorry, tink... they wern't really your true friends... but I'm sure you've head that before, though. Before dumping them. . .tell them how tolerant they aren't.

*Taylor*

[the mage]

Gays in the "community" can be just as bias and bigoted as the straits they like to put down as "breeders".....

Live your life, be accepting of others, and then you are free....

[DiamondDog]

I just can't understand why that argument always has to be exclusive instead of inclusive. Why does having sex with more than one person have to always imply leaving one for the other. I think poly is so tough to make work only because so many have been brainwashed into monogamy. :soapbox:

Cheating on a spouse and slutting around with others isn't an honest open relationship, it's cheating and being dishonest.

Anyway lesbians are notorious for disliking bi women and saying how bisexual women will only cheat on them or go back to being with a man.

Blame it on Anne Heche? Or blame it on insecure lesbians, who expect WAY too much from their female partners, like a lifelong relationship in a VERY short period of time of dating such as a few weeks or a few months?

Like the old joke says, what does a lesbian bring with her on a 2nd date?
A U-haul/moving van!

[Skater Boy]

lol, its kinda ironic when Bisexuality means you're disliked by STRAIGHT ppl and GAY ppl... you'd think we'd be able to relate to them BOTH, but no...

Haha, ah well. I guess its time to find out who your friends really are... if you have to ditch a few of them then so be it. I always say its better to have just a few GOOD friends than lots of BAD ones.

[Skater Boy]

Cheating on a spouse and slutting around with others isn't an honest open relationship, it's cheating and being dishonest.

And yeah, I'd agree with that. If you're gonna sleep around, at least make sure your partner is OK with it. Trust and loyalty is very important to me, and I'd never put a serious partner in a position where he/she feels uncomfortable with what I am doing.

[FalconAngel]

I have a lesbian friend who I have known for 20 years now. She has known about me being Bi from the beginning and has never made a judgment like that on me. Even the gay guys that we would hang out together with never did that either. There were a few that we met up with that did the "You're just confused" or "pick a side" crap, but they were few and far between.

She has hooked me up with guys from time to time in the past and we have hung out and picked out potential girlfriends together, but she has, not even once, done what your "friends" did to you.

You need better friends than that. You DESERVE better friends than that.

[darkeyes]

I was stunned at the reaction of some lesbian friends when I recently came out to them as Bi. They were so vicious in thier denial of the existence of bisexuality. I am hetero and just want to use another woman to "turn on" my husband. Not true. I am really a lesbian and afraid to come out, even to myself. Also not true.
Then they started saying that it was insensitive of me to come out to them because they don't have the same legal priveleges that I, as a straight person, have. That it was tantamount to throwing my priveleged social class in their faces.
I was totally stunned. I have not seen this side of these women.. I was not coming on to them. I just felt like sharing this important part of my being.
Anyone else ever see this sort of thing from gay friends/acquaitances? :bibounce:
Most of us who are out have experienced the intolerance and lack of acceptance of our sexuality by many in the gay and lesbian community. It is an incredible arrogance on their part that they know more whats in our head and heart than we do ourselves. I have been called a slag and slut by gay men and lesbian women because of my insistence that I know my sexuality and my sexuality is not as theirs. It has often been an unpleasant experience but I can cope and it isnt something I will lose sleep over. Luckily not all the gay men and lesbian women are like them, and many are supportive of my right to be who I am as they are to be who they are. I have said before that my flatmate, a lesbian is terrific, in that she wholly accepts who and what I am as does most of her lesbian friends.

Sexuality can be transient in some of us, possibly even most. As I get a little older I find myself more attracted to my own sex and it may be that the day will come when I consider myself not bisexual but lesbian. Indeed I am questioning that now. This does not mean that transience in sexuality is inevitably a one way street. I have known among the str8 gay bi and lesbian communities many who have moved not always easily between the communities. Some through the whole caboodle.And then back again. Sexuality can be fluid in many of us and ebbs and flows between the various communities. In my case it has been an inexorable movement toward physically and emotionally needing my own sex with no noticable relief. I am happy with that, for it is me. We are all different and many of us are much more fluid than me in that respect.

Whatever I consider myself in the end I would never deny that among many people, possibly most bisexuality is the norm. Its not something gay or str8 society may like but its what I believe, And just as those str8 people who are so vehemently anti gay are often closet gays or bisexuals themselves, I think it likely that those among the gay community who are our most vehement critics and doubters are often closet bi's. It is often I think a case of 'the lady doth protest too much'.

[Azrael]

Cheating on a spouse and slutting around with others isn't an honest open relationship, it's cheating and being dishonest.

Anyway lesbians are notorious for disliking bi women and saying how bisexual women will only cheat on them or go back to being with a man.

Blame it on Anne Heche? Or blame it on insecure lesbians, who expect WAY too much from their female partners, like a lifelong relationship in a VERY short period of time of dating such as a few weeks or a few months?

Like the old joke says, what does a lesbian bring with her on a 2nd date?
A U-haul/moving van!
Hmm, I agree that cheating and slutting around is reprehensible, but I didn't really get the impression that's what he meant. I was agreeing about us having monogamy programmed into us, but didn't mean anything beyond that. Hmm. Perhaps the dude can clarify what he meant himself?

[ghytifrdnr]

Cheating on a spouse and slutting around with others isn't an honest open relationship, it's cheating and being dishonest.

Why do some (most) people automatically assume that it's cheating, and not an honest, open relationship? Are they brainwashed monogamous, and are there some skeletons rattling around in their closet?

[tinkslite]

Okay everyone listen carefully:

I DO NOT CHEAT!!!!! MY HUSBAND IS FULLY AWARE OF WHO/WHAT I AM, AND WHAT/WHO I PLAN TO DO THINGS WITH!! I WOULD NOT DONOT CHEAT!!!

This being said, I must say, these women were some I had expected to be MORE accepting than others. Whoops.

I have (over the years now) been vilified for being mormon and (too straight, little did they know), for defending the lesbian/gay community when the church attacked politically (the mormon "friends" said my husband and i must be gay oureslves or it wouldn't bother us so much.

What is it with this crap?

If you don't look like the group you're with, you don't know yourself. But the group knows you.

It all seems like bs to me

[wolfcamp]

It's funny how groups like G/Ls campaign for acceptance and special rights until you run up against THEIR ideals. But not everyone is like that. There are jerks in every crowd and there are really nice people out there too. I've come to realize that the jerks don't always make up the majority. Don't let them make you feel small. Just try to become comfortable with who you are, and let them rant.

A few years ago I went to a gay bar for the first time. Well, it was the first time that I went on purpose. I have walked into a few gay bars by accident. A guy sat at the bar beside me and struck up a conversation. He asked me where else I had been that evening. I told him I had been to one of my favorite bars where bikers and boaters hang out, and the bands play rock and blues. He exclaimed, "That's a straight bar! You're not gay!", and then he got up and walked away. I went to myself, "Huh..........huh!" That was when it first started to occur to me that some gays don't really like people who go both ways. I thought at the time that it was a little shallow of him. It was a good lesson, but now I think I shouldn't judge the whole group by that one guy.

WC

[DiamondDog]

Why do some (most) people automatically assume that it's cheating, and not an honest, open relationship? Are they brainwashed monogamous, and are there some skeletons rattling around in their closet?

Does your spouse know that you have sex, or seek out sex with others besides him/her?

If they don't, well it's cheating/being dishonest, and not an open relationship.

Lots of people say that they're "poly" or say that they're in an open relationship when in reality they're just saying that to justify cheating on a spouse/partner.

Anyway who's to say that having an open relationship is inherently "better" than being closed/exclusive?

They both have their positive and negative aspects.

Neither one is "better" than the other. Some people are more into being closed/exclusive and some are into trying open relationships.

It has absolutely nothing to do with being "brainwashed" if you prefer being closed/exclusive, having an open relationship, or a combination of both.

I don't like it how people who are advocates for open relationships somehow act like they're "better than", transcendent, or more evolved than people who are in or who want a closed and exclusive relationship.

I will say this, most of the people I know who have had open relationships now regret it.

Some of them were gung ho about open relationships/being in one/having one from the beginning but now they tell me how they'll never settle for an open relationship again.

They won’t settle for being the guy/woman on the side to a couple who is in an established relationship, having someone else enter into their relationship with their partner and worrying about their marriage/partnership eroding, and that open relationships work better in theory than in reality.

Most people I’ve known who’ve had them got very frustrated with having an open relationship, and it started out good but then it went downhill, got very frustrating for everyone involved, and in some cases they're not even friends or on speaking terms at all with any of their ex partners.

I also don’t know anyone who is in, or who has had an open relationship where it lasted for more than a decade, and many people who once tried open relationships with their partners wind up having them go back to being closed and exclusive with the original partner that they were in a closed/exclusive relationship with to begin with.

[ghytifrdnr]

Hey DD, you keep reading all kinds of things that I didn't say. I merely asked why you,and others, are so ready to scream "CHEATER" whenever someone touches on the subject of having more than one partner, and often with no knowledge of the actual situation. That was it, nothing more! :eek:

[etncple]

Okay everyone listen carefully:

I DO NOT CHEAT!!!!! MY HUSBAND IS FULLY AWARE OF WHO/WHAT I AM, AND WHAT/WHO I PLAN TO DO THINGS WITH!! I WOULD NOT DONOT CHEAT!!!

This being said, I must say, these women were some I had expected to be MORE accepting than others. Whoops.

I have (over the years now) been vilified for being mormon and (too straight, little did they know), for defending the lesbian/gay community when the church attacked politically (the mormon "friends" said my husband and i must be gay oureslves or it wouldn't bother us so much.

What is it with this crap?

If you don't look like the group you're with, you don't know yourself. But the group knows you.

It all seems like bs to me

It is all bullshit. I don't think I would put much faith in them as "friends". The older I get the more "Live and let live" means to me. I have enough trouble handling myself without judging others on their sexuality leanings, bi, str8 or gay.
If any of you have seen the movie Sling Blade with billy bob thorton, his character, Carl( a mentally disabled male), says to John Ritter( playing a gay male). "Even tho the bible says , man shall not lie with man, you are good to that boy and i guess God doesnt hold it against you that you like men".

Good people come in all colors, sizes, shapes, races and sexual preferences.
Then again, stupidity comes in the same variety of people. Its up to us to pick who we listen to and who we make friends with.

[ohbimale]

Yes tink I have seen that reaction from both Gays and Straights. Both communities have a bias against Bisexuals. In fact I have had comments like that aimed me by both so called friends and family. I was told to make up my mind...so I did and do not speak to those people anymore. I do not need their prejudices in my life. I admit I am generalizing and there are some out there in the Gay and Straight community who do have that bias. Honestly the most accepting group of people in general is the Pagans, Wiccans, and Witches, many of whom are either Gay or Bisexual. They are non-judgemental and will not put that stereo type crap out on you that you are Lesbian indenial or Straight and wanting to experiment. Friends who would pull those lines out aimed directly at you are not true friends. I believe that many Gays, Lesbians and Straights feel somewhat threatened by Bisexuals. Bisexual people in general are a group of people who do not fit the mold that western society places on people, that you are either Straight or Gay. Our ability to have meaningfull relationships with either sex is not something society wants to face, let alone Gays, Lesbians and Straights.

And I do not why the whole discussion of cheating got inserted here. That has nothing to do with the original questions. So lets leave that out and focus on Tink's questions.

Find some new friends who can relate to you and you to them. If these women truely want your firendship they will seek you out. :bipride: :male: :male:

[FalconAngel]

[QUOTE=bimalewitch]Yes tink I have seen that reaction from both Gays and Straights. Both communities have a bias against Bisexuals. In fact I have had comments like that aimed me by both so called friends and family. I was told to make up my mind...so I did and do not speak to those people anymore. I do not need their prejudices in my life. I admit I am generalizing and there are some out there in the Gay and Straight community who do have that bias. Honestly the most accepting group of people in general is the Pagans, Wiccans, and Witches, many of whom are either Gay or Bisexual. They are non-judgemental and will not put that stereo type crap out on you that you are Lesbian indenial or Straight and wanting to experiment. Friends who would pull those lines out aimed directly at you are not true friends. I believe that many Gays, Lesbians and Straights feel somewhat threatened by Bisexuals. Bisexual people in general are a group of people who do not fit the mold that western society places on people, that you are either Straight or Gay. Our ability to have meaningfull relationships with either sex is not something society wants to face, let alone Gays, Lesbians and Straights.


We agree with that. We are both Pagan and amongst the covens that we associate with, not one person has expressed any issues with Bisexuals (I am out to members of all of the covens that we associate with). Even the, oftentimes homophobic, Latino men have no issues with my sexuality.

[Dolmance]

I always feel concerned regarding people who are more concerned about their legal privileges being infringed rather than celebrating their own sexuality, WTF is that about?
I’ve been warned about this kind of ‘Homosexual Bi-adversity’ and I have to say I haven’t yet experienced it, I’m sorry you haven’t been so unfortunate.
I came out a year ago to a trusted circle of friends, two of them were Lesbian, they were nothing but cool about it and were just touched that I told them, thing is, they aren’t of the persuasion to go on about people not being sensitive to them and their ideals, its almost as if these people feel their sexuality is a cross to bare, or they use it to stand out more from the crowd because they feel have a cause and a reason to feel threatened rather than just be happy in themselves (like pretentious teenagers lol).
Coming out should be a celebration of identity, sexual liberation and personal freedom, not a declaration of war, that kind of attitude is indicative of so many problems in this world.
As for comparing sexual identity to social class, well that’s very, very dangerous territory.
These people are bad friends, I am sorry to say it, but if they genuine they would have understood you and offered you their support, no real person would let their own inflexible agenda get in the way of supporting another person in what can be a very difficult time, which, in the wake of such adversity they, in particular, should understand!

I’m not commenting on the entire solely Gay/lesbian community btw, just the minority I have been warned against and you seemed to have experienced.

Good luck, don’t let them get you down.

[Enoll]

lol, its kinda ironic when Bisexuality means you're disliked by STRAIGHT ppl and GAY ppl... you'd think we'd be able to relate to them BOTH, but no...


I'd always though they'd priase the bi's as some sort of diplomats between
the two, but no, the hate goes on,
:tong:

[Music Girl]

Tinkslite, I'm so sorry you had such a bad experience with coming out as bi to your friends. Only a few close friends know that I'm bi, and they have reacted very positively. Some of these friends are gay, and some are straight, and none of them have ever told me to "make up my mind". They have been terrifically supportive.

On the flipside, it's the "aquaintances" that have had a problem with my bisexuality. Years ago, before I really knew of any bi websites, I chatted in some GL chatrooms. I started chatting with a woman, and we seemed to really get along well. I told her I was bi from the start, and she didn't seem to have a problem with it. When we got to the stage of talking on the phone, one of the first things she said to me was "My lesbian friends told me I should drop you now. They say you need to decide what you are, and if you aren't a lesbian, then you will end up going back to men." I was amazed. I had just started exploring my attraction to women, and I had never heard anything like this. All I could tell her was that I am genuinely attracted to both men and women. I was amazed that I was having to explain myself.

A few years later, I began chatting on-line with a straight man. Again, I was honest with him about my bisexuality. He said it wasn't a problem. He and I became quite close, talking on the phone frequently, and even discussing meeting in person. This went on for over a year. Then, he decided to get back with his ex-wife. Okay, fine, I thought; we'll just go our separate ways. But, he told me he wanted to stay friends with me. I wasn't sure about this but let him continue. He then said "We can stay friends, but you can't discuss your bisexuality with me." Well, that's like saying "You can't talk about your family" or something equally as stupid. I told him there was no way I could or would do that, and the relationship was over.

So, there are varied responses out there. Maybe your friends just haven't dealt with bisexuality in the past. Maybe they've had bad experiences with bisexuality. Maybe they're just closed-minded. As someone posted earlier, you might try talking to them individually. Maybe when they each hear what you have to say, they will begin to understand where you are coming from. Hang in there. You will find people who understand. You have found them; we are right here. :flag4:

[sammie19]

At a club I was once brought to tears when the girl I had been flirting and dancing with for half an evening suddenly went crazy and cornered me screaming about my really being lesbian and that I had better pick my side and stop being such a tart. I omit the expletives and wish I could forget the viscious expression on her face as she just went on and on. Thankfully it is the only time that I have had such a really unpleasant experience with a lesbian who would not accept my bisexuality but sadly it is not the only time the subject has been raised. Why so many are unable to accept us for who we are I cannot fathom. I am much more wary and prepared now and am determined that no-one else will get me in to such a state ever again.

[jamiehue]

50 thousand folks at pride. I hung out with the bifolks the looks at our little stand i loved it! the bi aquairian that i am.Best pride ever!