Is there such thing as a bisexual culture?

[Howardmoon]

I've heard for years that there is such thing as a gay culture and a lesbian culture, and of course the prevailing culture is heterosexual. There are a lot of stereotypes for each. In gay culture, for example, the presiding aesthetic is camp, the music tends to be dance orientted, and there's a worshiping of the body. In lesbian culture, the presiding aesthetic is earnestness, the music tends to be folkie, and there's a tendency towards separatism. I know, these are broad strokes, but there's still some truth here.

So what, if anything, constitutes a bi "culture?" Is there such thing as a bi icon? They don't neccessarily have to be bi celebrities - someone like Bowie (is he even considered bi anymore?) might count, but I dont' know if he's a bisexual icon per se. Any ideas?

[kitten]

The only bi-culture I have experienced is here at this site and I like it.
It is a safe place to express myself and ask questions and "be" myself without fear.

I have not experienced real life bi-culture, yet. So, I have nothing to share in that respect.

Welcome again and hope you have fun exploring and finding out more about your post!

[Howardmoon]

Well, the only thing I could come up with myself was a tendency towards humour- I don't know of anyone who is bisexual who doesn't have a strong sense of humour. I also noticed that many bi people enjoy fantasy and sci-fi. I know there are gay "geeks," but it seems to me that fantasy has a strong bi fandom, especially authors like Terry Pratchett. I could be way off here, though.

But what I meant is are there any bi icons, in the ways that to a previous generation Judy Garland was a gay icon, or the way many strong women have been lesbian icons? Cary Grant, anyone? :tongue:

[kitten]

oh gotcha.

I am curious about what others think as well. Thanks for the clarification.

[CuddlyKate]

I think that there is a bisexual culture. I dont think it is as easily identfiable as that of gay or straight people but it exists. It isnt as push you in the face as gay but its there, in many ways more secretive and much more difficult to define.

I know that where we live it exists, predominantly female because an any male bi culture is that bit more secretive. Women it appears are ok to be bisexual. Men not so. There is no dress code such as exists for gays. From my knowledge of the female bi community, they range across the spectrum much like lesbian women, from lipstick lesbians (such as little miss vanity), to the butch almost mannish, although there are less of them than in lesbian culture, and not generally quite so butch. Mostly they are dressed in the same way as the straight community, and are impossibe to tell apart from that community.

There are no identifiable film icons, although there should be. There are enough bisexual film stars. No identifiable pop and rock incons, although again there are enough of them. Such as do exist in queer culture are claimed by the gay community whether they are gay straight or bisexual.

There isnt the same club scene, and usually bisexuals seem to use the gay club scene that for their same sex interactions. Or the straight club scene for whatever comes along usually a straight encounter.

And bisexuals are a part of the LGBT community, even although much of that community hate bisexuals as opportunists and are not trusted. Bisexual organisations are few and far between and thats a void which should be filled.

This site is a valuable part of bisexual culture and if I dont participate in chat as much as I once did, it doesnt mean I dont read avidly its content and value it.

So as a culture it exists. Ill defined, very loose, disparate. But there. Hopefully in time more obvious, better organised and accepted.

[Skater Boy]

If there IS such a thing as JUST ONE "bisexual culture", I don't think I'd want to be part of it. At least not fully. I value my individuality too highly to subscribe to any one culture. despite the fact that it might feel good to "fit in" somewhere.

Apparently, in the "Gay Community" there is something called "The Scene", which I guess could be considered as the predominant collective mind-set of the sexuality. Personal aesthetics and social rituals are probably influenced by it.

But in reality, there are various other "scenes" within the Gay community, and the same goes for Bisexuality. Just looking through the profile ads on this site, you will see people from many different walks of life.

We probably all do have a few things in common, but my guess is that we'd find plenty of differences too. Just like "being straight" doesn't necessarily indicate what type of person you are.

[shameless agitator]

I've never encountered a bi culture, which is disappointing. While I agree with skater boy that I wouldn't want to be fully immersed in it, it would be nice some times to be around people who get it. It seems that most of us just kind of bounce between gay and straight cultures without ever quite being at home in iether one. I would like to create a real life version of this little community, but it's tough going

[Howardmoon]

I agree that being straight doesn't neccessarily put you in a particular culture, but i have noticed that there are certain things that seem very common to a lot of hetero males, especially young ones. The whole Maxim magazine, beer-drinking lifestyle, for example.

Let me put it this way: I work at a bookstore, and there are "lifestyle" magazines for gay and straight men and for straight women and lesbians. There is virtually nothing for bis (I think Anything That Moves went out of business, but that's it). And all of those magazines seem to be stratified to their own markets. There is usually some lip service to bis in the queer mags, but they are definitely mostly gay or lesbian. Where do bis fit in?

[AdamKadmon43]

I am beginning to suspect that my cat might be bisexual.

**** I wonder if there is a culture of bisexual cats? ****

Adam

[Howardmoon]

"
**** I wonder if there is a culture of bisexual cats? ****"

Wouldn't be surprised. It seems like every lesbian has a cat. :tongue:

[AdamKadmon43]

I once knew a lesbian that actually did not own a cat.

hehe

[Howardmoon]

Ive heard country lesbians prefer dogs

[darkeyes]

Kate's rite in a lotta ways bout bi culture... its pretty nebulous but its ther ok. A sod findin it at times in sum places... but usually not imposs.

One of the probs we hav is how str8s an gays look down ther snooty lil snitches at us.. most of em think we ok for a gud lay.. use us a bit an neva quite accept us as proper human beins..certainly not 2 b taken on full time as partner or lover.. Course not all peeps r like that str8 or gay..but its ther in their culture..in their whole demeanour 2 bi peeps. Thats wy its a mystery how we cant reely get our act togetha cept eitha by hidin who we r.. or by involvin ourselves wiv the gay an lessie mob. Gays an str8's may accept us as havin the rite 2 exist but cos we bi.. we r sumhow less....

Ther r millions of us... an sumhow we r less respectable than gays or lessies.. certainly than str8's, half of whom r rite nasty hypocritical arseholes ne way.. we r jus chancers out for all we can get... Thats all bollox of course but its how the rest c us.

Seems it easier for us jus 2 b part of the LGB community, an so we jus accept that bein "queer" (jeez me hates that expression Kate) we r part of it.. we shud b.. but reality is that it aint how they c us..or most of em ne way. So woteva bi culture exists is nebulous an almost invisible... wetha we shud change that is a reely gud point 2 consider... we an the gay an lessie communities r on the same side..but sumhow thats not how most of em c it..an so our culture..our part within that who GLB thingie is subsumed by ther interest. An yet..me wud argue that ther r a fukkin whole lot more of us than ther r of them..an deep down me thinks ther r more of us than ther r of the str8 community... jus so many of us r well hidden for reasons we all know 2 well.

[DiamondDog]

I once knew a lesbian that actually did not own a cat.

hehe

LMAO

What does a lesbian bring on a 2nd date?

A u-haul!

[Skater Boy]

Kate's rite in a lotta ways bout bi culture... its pretty nebulous but its ther ok. A sod findin it at times in sum places... but usually not imposs.

One of the probs we hav is how str8s an gays look down ther snooty lil snitches at us.. most of em think we ok for a gud lay.. use us a bit an neva quite accept us as proper human beins..certainly not 2 b taken on full time as partner or lover.. Course not all peeps r like that str8 or gay..but its ther in their culture..in their whole demeanour 2 bi peeps. Thats wy its a mystery how we cant reely get our act togetha cept eitha by hidin who we r.. or by involvin ourselves wiv the gay an lessie mob. Gays an str8's may accept us as havin the rite 2 exist but cos we bi.. we r sumhow less....

Ther r millions of us... an sumhow we r less respectable than gays or lessies.. certainly than str8's, half of whom r rite nasty hypocritical arseholes ne way.. we r jus chancers out for all we can get... Thats all bollox of course but its how the rest c us.

Seems it easier for us jus 2 b part of the LGB community, an so we jus accept that bein "queer" (jeez me hates that expression Kate) we r part of it.. we shud b.. but reality is that it aint how they c us..or most of em ne way. So woteva bi culture exists is nebulous an almost invisible... wetha we shud change that is a reely gud point 2 consider... we an the gay an lessie communities r on the same side..but sumhow thats not how most of em c it..an so our culture..our part within that who GLB thingie is subsumed by ther interest. An yet..me wud argue that ther r a fukkin whole lot more of us than ther r of them..an deep down me thinks ther r more of us than ther r of the str8 community... jus so many of us r well hidden for reasons we all know 2 well.

lol, you use the term "we" a lot, Fran... despite your profile ad suggesting that the word (in this particular context) might not apply to you. Does that mean us blokes should definitely hang onto the "possibility" of "getting a piece of Fran", or is it just in Johnny Depp's honour that you allow yourself to use the word? :bigrin:

[spartca]

I've been part of the bi culture in the SF Bay Area for many years. We have a calendar of regular events all around the area, check us out at:

http://babn.org/

[darkeyes]

lol, you use the term "we" a lot, Fran... despite your profile ad suggesting that the word (in this particular context) might not apply to you. Does that mean us blokes should definitely hang onto the "possibility" of "getting a piece of Fran", or is it just in Johnny Depp's honour that you allow yourself to use the word? :bigrin:

Tee hee. Skater.. we cud mean Kate an bump an me..or cud mean we ( bi peeps) as a group..includin u poor sods... yas ok...long as JD still breathin me will still think of meself as bi...but regardin u gettin a piece of me...next time me cuts me toenails will send em 2 ya! Nearest yas eva gonna get! Muah!:tong:

[Ally Kat]

"
**** I wonder if there is a culture of bisexual cats? ****"

Wouldn't be surprised. It seems like every lesbian has a cat. :tongue:

we have a dog....I'm allergic to cat dander

[Skater Boy]

...but regardin u gettin a piece of me...next time me cuts me toenails will send em 2 ya! Nearest yas eva gonna get! Muah!:tong:

lol, well, I shall eagerly await those toenails, Fran... "betta than nuffin" :bigrin:

[AdamKadmon43]

I once knew a lesbian that actually did not own a cat.

hehe

I was going to add that she was the only lesbian that I ever met that did not have a pussy, but I thought that perhaps I should try to grow up and refrain from such childish behaviour.

Adam

[naive]

I've heard for years that there is such thing as a gay culture and a lesbian culture, and of course the prevailing culture is heterosexual. There are a lot of stereotypes for each. In gay culture, for example, the presiding aesthetic is camp, the music tends to be dance orientted, and there's a worshiping of the body. In lesbian culture, the presiding aesthetic is earnestness, the music tends to be folkie, and there's a tendency towards separatism. I know, these are broad strokes, but there's still some truth here.

So what, if anything, constitutes a bi "culture?" Is there such thing as a bi icon? They don't neccessarily have to be bi celebrities - someone like Bowie (is he even considered bi anymore?) might count, but I dont' know if he's a bisexual icon per se. Any ideas?

i think this was where i was going with my "conformity" post. i think my question of a "bi culture" started because of a tv show i saw (i know that i shouldn't believe everything i see). i think it was one of those law shows where everyone was sleeping with everyone and there was a emo/alternative/goth chick that was considered bisexual. then there was a straight chick that was sleeping with a married man and wanted the bi chick to take her side regarding the polygamy. so the bi chick says something "even tho i look like i have flexible views on sex/appearance, i still believe in monogamy" (because the straight chick associated being bi with the stereotype of polygamy). from that, i thought a bi culture might exist in the emo population (well for the teen/20s generation anyway).

please tell me if i'm mistaken because i've sometimes been using this perception as a replacement for my non-existent "bi-dar".

[DiamondDog]

you don't need a culture, just be your own person.

Even gay men don't all like gay "culture" and find it to be silly, vapid, pointless, conformist, alienating, and annoying.

[softfruit]

It's a nice theory, Diamonddog, but I find people seem to want a culture or social identity to gravitate towards. Often that's just while they sort their heads out about who they are, and later they will reject it; I was very "gay scene" immediately after coming out and later turned away from that a little and back to my punk/indie roots, keeping a foot in both camps. I get the impression lots of people do that - come out, find the gay scene, fit in desparately because they want to have a social support network and sense of who they are after the vertigo involved in coming out... then after a while the panic diminishes and they find the blend they're happy with.

Coming out as lesbian or gay there are some simple symbols that are widely recognised in Western European & North American culture - short hair for girls, campness for boys - there isn't something quite so easily codified for bi folks though.

My best explanation when I spent a little time being interviewed about this was that the way you spot bis is that they do the straight or the gay thing and can't help but get it not-quite-right!

[spartca]

I have to agree softfruit - personally I really enjoy hanging out with other bifolk, if only to get some relief from biphobia.

Although since there are so many ways to be bisexual, and internalized homophobia can be a bitch, bi culture has it's own issues... but hey, it's bi culture all the same lol.

[MarieDelta]

*Looks around*

I suppose that wherever there are people there will be culture. But doesn't that depend on how we define a bi culture.

Yes I note that most Bi people I run into seem to have a sense of humour.

I also note that every Bi person I've met seems to be inclined towards independence (from stereotypes, from rules, from prejudice).

& yes not everyone is the same acrossed the board, wouldn't that be a bore anyway?

As far as Bi Icons - Marlena Dietrich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlene_Dietrich) anyone?

Margaret Cho (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Cho)

David Bowie & Mick Jagger (http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/bowie.asp)

OK...

That's enough thinking for now :)

[FalconAngel]

A Bi culture? Where? Did I miss the staff meting or e-mail on it? I wanna be part of it. Where is it? :P

[TaylorMade]

A Bi culture? Where? Did I miss the staff meting or e-mail on it? I wanna be part of it. Where is it? :P

Yeah... the "Gay Agenda" for this month didn't have a special "Now announcing Bi Culture!" foldout thingy.

*Taylor*

[12voltman59]

I don't really think that there is a bisexual culture as such---I think that by and large--bisexuals blend into the woodwork more or less and basically either identify more with the larger hetero culture, or gay or lesbian culture depending upon individual preferences and circumstances---

[the mage]

There is no Bi culture.
There is no gay culture either.
There is only stereotypical campy femmes and leather men shown to you at large.
There is a gay community here in Toronto
The culture part of gay you see and think of is the pretty boys in the bars on Church St.
That is vapid and empty. It is wealth on display. Not culture.
Gay culture in reality is political in nature driven by a small forceful few survivors of the days of police beating in the alleys near that same Church St.

It is still driven entirely by wealth. It is not an accepted cultural phenomenon.
Being gay is open and accepted, but to be so the people out there must fit in to the culture they live in at large, as normal members, with whats behind the bedroom door not advertised. That is reality for most.
Making your sexuality the political/ cultural centre was necessitated by the AIDS epidemic for gay men. It was open the door big or there would have been mass death and it would have been ignored.
Their wealth allowed that to happen because they are in fact everywhere in society. The corporate world bought on to their purchasing power and the community was born. It is not culture.
Acceptance of your sexuality should be built into your culture, not the center of it.

[Howardmoon]

What I find unusual about gay culture (or gay pop culture) is that there are so many icons who aren't gay men, for example Judy Garland and Madonna. There are less straight males who are icons to lesbians, but I think it could be argued that, for example, Elvis was a huge influence on K.D. Lang (as was Patsy Cline, who from what I can tell was not a lesbian herself). Maybe culture is too strong a word, but there are definitely gay and lesbian aesthetics. Is there a bi aesthetic? I would argue that there is, and it seems that a large part of it is a sense of playfulness that isn't in gay or straight culture. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Howardmoon]

Also, YMMV, but I think there is something to the fantasy thing. There seems to be a definite crossover between the queer communities and fantasy/sci-fi fans.

[karenooo]

Hmm.

No, I don't know of any bi culture. Just cool groups like this one. I've been mocked in lesbian bars for being a bi woman. Lesbians often think bi women will leave them for men; we're the enemy. From the standpoint of a domestic violence specialists, much of the GLT community is shaped by the homophobia they face. Subsequently, other issues emerge like teen homelessness (when parents throw them out when they come out), substance abuse (to deal with the stress of no family safety net), and sometimes intimate partner violence. Laws that prevent same sex couple from marriage is particularily accute for GLTs. Bi culture is unique in that many of us blend into the mainstream and enjoy rights that they do not.

[12voltman59]

It does seem to me that to many lesbians--they really do freak when a woman not only will be with woman but with men-they kind of have this idea that by doing so one "is sleeping with the enemy!!"

I think that has to do with the seemingly more political nature that seems to surround being a lesbian according to so many who do identify as being a lesbian---

Perhaps I am incorrect in that assesment--it just seems to be that way to me--I really wish those gals would just lighten up and let people be the way they want to be---

[grizzle45]

There used to be a bisexual stereotype: wears black, page boy haircuts, tends toward androgyny: clean lines, unadorned style, jackets, boots.
At least around these parts, that was sort of the image. I'm sure it isn't that way...probably never was.

I would think "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" is the one universal in Bi Culture.
I've been looking for Bi Films/Books for some time now and have been pretty disappointed in what I find.

As for icons, I was trying to think of identified bisexuals, like Freddie Mercury, but the comment about Judy Garland and Madonna opens it up a bit. I always think of Bowie even though he has said he's not bisexual, and sometimes Marlene Dietrich.

These days there's Capt. Jack Harkness!!

[MarieDelta]

It does seem to me that to many lesbians--they really do freak when a woman not only will be with woman but with men-they kind of have this idea that by doing so one "is sleeping with the enemy!!"

I think that has to do with the seemingly more political nature that seems to surround being a lesbian according to so many who do identify as being a lesbian---

Perhaps I am incorrect in that assesment--it just seems to be that way to me--I really wish those gals would just lighten up and let people be the way they want to be---

Part of the problem is ...just like us they get sh!t for being different.

So they have adopted a political stance of femminism, because like it or not women are second class citizens in this (and many other ) countries.

And who can blame them?

Of course it would be nice to get some tolerance, and I agree letting someone else be themselves should be standard in the GLBT community.

But perhaps the place I see having the most tolerance is the Bi's I have been around. Pretty much we're non-judgemental. Of course there are different tastes and some lines clearly were not meant to be crossed, but on the whole very accepting as far as I can tell.

"The Rocky Horror Picture Show" is a standard in the trans community(such as it is) as well. ;)

I guess what I see is that trans and bisexuals are where the Gays and Lesbians were a decade or two ago.

Many trans people will tell you that there is no "Trans Culture" as well. Because it stretches out over the entire globe. Is there any culture that is universal?

[MarieDelta]

Anyone see this latest?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070911102649.htm

From the article:


"Now we've found that casual observers can use gait and body shape to judge whether a stranger is gay or straight with a small but perceptible amount of accuracy."



I wonder if the same is true of Bisexuals?

[Germanicus]

I always think of Bowie even though he has said he's not bisexual, and sometimes Marlene Dietrich.

Bowie's reported words earlier this year was that he was Bi - http://www.mirror.co.uk/archive/2007/01/06/from-ziggy-to-sixty-89520-18404129/

Marlene Dietrich is a different story. I think she could be classed as Bi taking the long term perspective of her life and loves, though I would argue that this is more the sum total or the mean average of her love life since it did range from end of the Kinsey scale to the other. Personally, I've never looked at her as a Bi icon since I think she suppressed her inner self at the expense of her "star" self, whenever I see a photo of her I see a vacuum - there's no warmth there.

[Skater Boy]

Bowie's reported words earlier this year was that he was Bi - http://www.mirror.co.uk/archive/2007/01/06/from-ziggy-to-sixty-89520-18404129/

My "motivation guru" met him a while back whilst doing some HIV charity work, and says that he admitted the same thing. Although I knew that he used the "gay" label previously due to him explaining it all in a 2002 copy of "Mojo" magazine.

[Germanicus]

Perhaps the question should be "should there be a bi culture"?

Joking aside, having been involved in both straight and queer cultures at home and abroad, I would argue, like the Mage has done, that much of any/either culture is a set of stereotypes and other people's values. I'm not saying this is wrong per se, but for many, including myself, its a real turn off, and I think thats why many people dont come out or acknowledge their feelings since they believe that they would have to conform to these stereotypes. Its great to have LGBT pubs and clubs, etc., but these can be as restrictive as straight ones.

For me, I just dip in to either culture and take what I need, but largely I create my own values and follow my own path. If it coincides with other people's views all well and good, and if it doesnt, it doesnt.

[Zeston]

But what I meant is are there any bi icons, in the ways that to a previous generation Judy Garland was a gay icon, or the way many strong women have been lesbian icons? Cary Grant, anyone? :tongue:

Danny Kaye instantly comes to my mind, as does Cole Porter.:)
Alan Cumming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Cummingis a self-described omnisexual, used the term before it was popular even.;)

Allanis Morrisette's bi....trying to think of some more.

Oh and who can forget Alexander the Great. ;)

Plus, speaking of Sci-fi and omnisexuals, "Torchwood" anybody?