Sixth Anniversary of 9/11 Attacks

[12voltman59]

It is hard to believe that one more year has now passed since that terrible day--now six years distant ---in just a few years from now we will mark a decade since those events took place.

I won't get too political in this post---just to say that unfortunately there have been many changes in out culture--some good, some bad.

The best thing is that in the days immediately following the attaks-it really did bring folks together in a way only some great traumatic situation can--and while much of that spirit does remain---with the glasses on that I wear and view the world---certain factions used the events that happened that day to both divide us from the common good and also used what happened to expand governmental powers in a not good way.

We have also had continual war that started fairly quickly after the attacks--and that is a situation that has not turned out well. Among the many rationales for that war was to "make us more secure" but I do believe that an objective overview of the facts regarding the war speaks that we are not safer than before and the fact that "those who hate us" still do-- now have even more reasons to do so.

The fact that they have not attacked us in a similar fashion as 9/11 or worse does not mean they have gone away and are no longer capable of commiting something of the same or worse nature--they simply have a different time frame for doing things and will do so when they are good and ready to undertake such an attack yet again.

In a way--they don't really have to do much more because we responded by cutting back on our own freedoms in the name of "being safe" and we engaged in massive military operations in their lands--something that just makes more and more new terrorists--thanks to this--our generation's great-great grandkids will be paying for what we are doing now--since we are dealing with a culture that does look at time differently than we do-- the old adage "revenge is dish best served cold" kind of neatly sums up their view of things----it's fine if I don't revenge my my father's death today--I can do it in thrity years from now or my great-grandson will kill your great-grandson 100 years from now to make good my death vow to avenge my father's death that I blame you for today----the Shiites and Sunnis are fighting over a dispute between their leaders that took place 900 or years ago as if it happened yesterday---

I do honor all of those who lost their lives in the attacks on the WTC towers, United Flight 93 and the other hijacked airliners, the Pentagon and all of the members of the US Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, National Guard, the militaries of other nations who have taken part and civillians (both "ours" and the innocent Iraqis) who have lost their lives in the two military actions we have undertaken in the subsequent years--as well as those who died in London, Madrid and elsewhere in subsequent terrorist attacks since 9/11.

If there is a God--may He/She or whatever the true nature of God is----- may that "being" bless their souls--and may that God instill in us still here that we need to get together---"us" and the Bin Laden types--to come to some sort of accommodation so that we can end this bloodshed--and maybe even work together in common good to move us all forward---

Idealist for sure--but we can hope can't we??? If you give up that hope we would be truly lost---- we cannot give up the hope that we can have peace and prosperity--we don't have to get along and be buddies with "them"---just going back into our respective corners and not fighting would be a good start----

Now---I will shut up and reflect in silence about those who have been lost and continue to fall by the wayside......

[MarieDelta]

I honor all those who have lost their lives in this conflict.

Especially those who were unwilling victims in the tragedy that was 9/11.

Those who were simply doing their jobs and lost their lives. The widows and children who must live with that loss.

May God have mercy on us all.

Marie

[texasman6172003]

Thank's Volty for bringing this subject up again. I was going to redo a thread on 9/11 attacks butt you beat me to the punch. All i want to say is regardless of what has happend since then is the fact that we cannot or should not ever ever forget what happend on that terrible day. Those poor people that died in the attacks did not ask for what happend to them. Also we should think of there familie's and what they have gone thru since that fatefull day. Ican't imagine what any of them have gone thru since then. So y'all sometime today or in the following day's or weeks to come,hold a good thought or say a prayer for the familier's and the loved one's they lost. For all we know it might do us some good to... Just my :2cents:...

[Sarasvati]

My thoughts and respect to the very great nation of the U.S.A from an English friend.

[onewhocares]

Dearest Volty…..

Thank you dear man, keeper of the ideals of remembrance of that fateful day, a scant six years ago in which the world stood still.

Most Americans, and I say this with both pride and concern, have no idea how lucky we are to live in the land we do, posses the rights as citizens we have, nor accept the responsibility of preserving those privileges that many of us take for granted. Perhaps it is because we had (or have) become complacent and believe those rights were afforded to us by shear birth. But those rights were delivered to us from the toil and sacrifice of those who have come before us. I believe that it is our duty to continue to embrace the concepts that brought us those privileges and continue to make the sacrifices needed to protect and defend our lives, our homeland, and our people when the cause is just. We must be mindful that this tragedy and subsequent actions were not aimed solely at the American people, but rather, people of the world.

I know I was touched in a rather personal way as dear family friends lost one of their own in a plane originated from Boston. Today on my daily journey I happen to be in my car when a memorial moment occurred and felt the pain of grief for our friends and those around the world who lost loved ones. I also thought with gratitude of my pen pal who has served the last two years in Iraq, supporting a cause as is his duty. I am blessed to know that he is home on American soil, yet unteatherd knowing he is bound by his devotion to his fellow comrades to return to their side. God Speed Steven.

Perhaps all my not agree with my view point, and I most surely understand, but I am by the grace of our forefathers allowed to share my thoughts. May the world find PEACE and UNDERSTANDING.


Belle

[Herbwoman39]

My heart goes out to those who lost friends and loved ones.

I remember.

I will ALWAYS remember the call that woke me up that morning. I will always remember turning on the TV just in time to see the second plane hit. I remember the images of missing posters covering the walls like wallpaper and firefighters covered in ash.

I will always remember the story of the firefighter who was trapped for hours. When he was rescued he only stopped long enough to have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich before going back to searching for survivors.

I will always remember what we lost, individually and as a nation.

I will always remember.

[deletetacount123]

Ya,

I remember reading it first on CNN.com.... then I turned on the news, EVERY channel seemed to be covering the story.
I saw it just seconds after the second plane crashed into the towers and I had watched when the towers fell.

For a moment I was stunned, wondering if I was just watching a movie cause isn't that something you would see in a action film???
But no, it was real. Especally since LIVE was in the corner of the screen.

It was a sad day... seemed like everything just stopped.

I don't even remember what else I did that day other than being glued to the news channels for the first time in my life.

Tasha

[Cesca]

I was only 14 when 9/11 happened and the memory of it will live with me until I die. My heart goes out to all who lost loved ones on that day and in the conflicts since. More than any single event it taught me the futility of violent solutions to the worlds problems.

[stormalong]

I was still in the Navy and stationed on Guam. It was evening there and I had the 1600 to 2400 watch on the Quarterdeck. I wound up being on watch till 0800 the next day. The news we got was so sporadic. The Admiral came in and asked me "Senior Chief, are we at war or not?" I said "Sir, as far as I'm concerned we are, we just have to figure out who with".

Aircraft were grounded even there. The Base was secured, no one was going on or off base. We finally got reports from CINCPACFLT and Foxnews. CNN international was giving lots of conflicting reports. It was bad.

[midtnbi8669]

September 11, 2001... what I consider the first battle of WW3, is now 6 years distant. It still amazes me that after 6 years, Americans and our friends around the world, still feel the pain and sorrow as strongly as we did that very day.

Despite the conspiracy theories and the posturing politicans, most of us still feel a profound sense of loss for those killed that day and also for our soldiers who's selfless sacrifices continue to this very moment.

I know I seek out our soldiers and thank them for their courage and for the fact that they lay their lives on the line each day for my freedom.

Let us all, conservatives, moderates and liberals alike, take a minute today to reflect on the last 6 years and and count our blessings. America is stronger when we all work together for the common good and benefit of our fellow man as well as the protection of our heritage and way of life.

A little piece of each of us died that day 6 years ago. Let's make sure we never forget those that paid the ultimate price for our freedom.

[shameless agitator]

Absolutely, it is critical that we remember & that we honor those who died on that day. What we must not do is allow people to use it as justification for further atrocities on our own part. I usually only break this out on the aniversary of the invasion of Iraq, but I've heard too many people rallying around the war because of today's date (Not that I'm saying anybody here is doing that) & I'm feeling a bit pissy so here goes


"I come from the Throne -- bearing a message from Almighty God!" The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. "He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such shall be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import -- that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of -- except he pause and think.

"God's servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two -- one uttered, the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him Who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this -- keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon some neighbor's crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.

"You have heard your servant's prayer -- the uttered part of it. I am commissioned of God to put into words the other part of it -- that part which the pastor -- and also you in your hearts -- fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard these words: 'Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!' That is sufficient. the *whole* of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory--*must* follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!

"O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle -- be Thou near them! With them -- in spirit -- we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it -- for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.

(*After a pause.*) "Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits!" ~Mark Twain "The War Prayer"

[FalconAngel]

I was installing an A/C system with my co-worker. I was outside torching in the condenser unit and he was in the house with the air handler. The owner had the tv on and I get a call on my radio to come in the house, I "have to see this".
My co-worker is a pilot and he saw the first plane hit. I got in the house in time to see the second plane hit. Since I have a lifetime as an aviation enthusiast, we were both in agreement that the neither plane's impact was a matter of pilot error.
With my experiences dealing with what terrorists did while I was overseas, I recognized it for what it was almost immediately.
Then I called my girlfriend (now wife) who's sister worked in one of the towers.
Fortunately, her sister's office called her sister and told her not to come in.

Whether our government has a secret hand in it (which I highly suspect) or not, I have always believed, and always will believe that those who commit acts of terror against innocent civilians should be terminated with the most extreme prejudice possible....hunted like the rabid animals that they are.....Unlike the way we are dealing with them now.

[deletetacount123]

I was looking at the free movie channels to see whats playing.

They are showing "United 93"

I wouldn't mind that showing any other day. Showing it today just seems wrong :( I know a lot of people aren't even happy United 93 was even made.

I also remembered after the attcks, A LOT of major places suddenly closed down. Schools closed early... even Disney World shut down that day.

Tasha

[FalconAngel]

I was looking at the free movie channels to see whats playing.

They are showing "United 93"

I wouldn't mind that showing any other day. Showing it today just seems wrong :( I know a lot of people aren't even happy United 93 was even made.

I also remembered after the attcks, A LOT of major places suddenly closed down. Schools closed early... even Disney World shut down that day.

Tasha

Things like this need to be remembered. On Dec 7, every year, there is a ceremony at the Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor. I watch the behind the scenes stuff for the making of "Pearl Harbor" on that day, to hear the stories of those who were there and lived to tell the tale.
If "United 93" was aired, then it was to honor those who died on this day 6 years ago (although the inherant publicity of airing it is an added bonus for the broadcaster).

We need to remember the infamous events and people so that we do not give them a foothold in the future.
We need to remember the infamous events and people to remember and honor those who survived and those who stood against them.

[deletetacount123]

Ya but weren't so many people upset and said the film was unacceptable??
I remember reading those kind of reviews around the time the film first aired on the movie channel.

[FerSureMaybe]

I was in junior high when this happened, and when I found out, I didn't really get it. Then again, our school didn't let out early or even make a big deal about it. It would literally take an act of congress to get my old school to let out ever. Still, I remember what I was doing, and being scared. I know my mom was scared and left work early, thinking that this could be the start of a war on American soil, not knowing if that would be the last day we'd have together on this earth.

I watched the history channel pretty much all day. Even now, it's becoming a bigger and bigger deal to me as the years pass, and more information is available or brought into the light a little better.

I might not have gotten it completely at the time as a 7th grader, but I still want to praise all the heroes of 9/11, those known and those not. I hope that the family of the victims all found some closure. And to the victims - rest in peace, you won't be forgotten.

[12voltman59]

I can remember the day very well--here in Ohio--like New York, Washington and Pennsylvania--it was a crystal clear day.

I heard the news about something going on as I got into my car and was pulling out of the garage since I had not turned on the tube while getting ready for work.

On my drive to work---as I passed through downtown Dayton on the interstate--I saw off to the east and coming over the city--heading outbound from Wright-Patterson Air Force Base--a home of a backup "Doomsday" 747's that are used to control things in the course of a war---it was hell bent for leather to gain altitude--nearly flying vertical and even over the noise of the cars on the interstate--I could hear the engines really cranked up.

When I got to work at the newspaper--my editor immediately sent me to the Dayton International Airport which is located in the suburban community that weekly community newspaper covered---by the time I got there--people who had been on airplanes directed to land in the airstop were making their way into the terminal.

There was a funky vibe for sure--no one knew what was going on and of course--everyone was concerned about what was going on---

While interviewing people--at one section of a terminal ---people were gathered around a televison set tuned to one of the major cable news channels--by that time the second tower had been hit and I heard this one young woman start to both scream and cry--"Oh my god--the tower is falling!!"

We all ran to watch the TV as the first tower fell--everyone was silent--a mix of anger, sadness, disbelief, fear on their faces--

I was interviewing another person a bit later when everyone screamed that the second tower was falling too---it was so hard to believe those towers fell--

I had been in the WTC towers a few times---I ate once at the great restaurant that was located in one of them--"Windows on the World"

It was a horrible day---

Today---we had several flights of fighter jets flying around and I saw the Doomsday plane airborne again--it came over my house around midday (depending on the wind-I am on the flightpath of aircraft in and out of WPAFB)--and it was just taking a nice leisurely flight--I don't know if it was going up or coming in--I figured they had it up "just in case"

[hudson9]

I was at Ground Zero later that week, having spent several days looking for my stepson. Looking at the devastation, the people digging in the rubble, it suddenly struck me -- this must be what Dresden was like, or London, or Tokyo or God knows how many other places. Since then more places have been added to the list. Kabul, Baghdad, Madrid, the Philippines... I mourn for myself, and all the losses that have followed. Never has the violence committed in any of those instances, prevented the next one on the list. Martin Luther King said "The past is prophetic... wars are poor chisels for carving out peaceful tomorrows." After 9-11 the world was united with us in our grief. We had a historic opportunity to unite the world and establish a "new world order" of commitment to international law and cooperation. The opportunity was squandered. I mourn for myself, I mourn for us all.

[midtnbi8669]

I do not believe that our world is ready for a "New World Order" and probably will not be for many, many years to come. Look at our country for example. Americans are more divided now than at any period since the Civil War, primarily but not exclusively, based on the war in Iraq.

Our politicans have done a GREAT job in making sure that the hardline left and right stay at each other's throats instead of working together for ANY reason. If a country based since its inception on personal freedoms can be as divided as we are, what can we expect from countries that have never known freedom in any form whatsoever.

If you look at the civilizations around the world, the majority of them do not even understand the principals of individual freedom. The concept is as alien to them as the dark side of the moon.

Radical Islam, like any other radical cause, is not ruled by common sense. It is ruled by the strongest kid on the playground. These people have been fighting among themselves for damn near a thousand years to no avail, but that does not stop them from continuing the violence. Until the mainstream stands up and refuses to tolerate these crazies...YES...I said CRAZIES, nothing will change except the escalation of violence. Since this has not happened in a thousand years, who is naive enough to believe it will happen in the near future?

I also believe that war should be a last resort. That being said, what else can anyone suggest to bring these hardline radicals to subscribe to the addage "Can't we all just get along"?

I feel that our invasion of Iraq was a terrible mistake, but declaring war on terror is something we all should support. A war on terror would solicite the assistance of each country on our earth to eradicate radical elements that use violence against innocent civilians. Consider Germany in the late 1930's. If the rest of the world put a stop to the violence within Germany at that time, chances are we could have avoided a war that killed millions.

And what are we supposed to do with Iraq today? If we pull out and say FUCKIT, do you believe that these people will put down their weapons and start playing huggy-kissy with each other? Our pullout would almost guarantee the death of thousands, maybe millions in the Middle East power struggle.

Since we started it in Iraq, I see no other resolution than to stay there and work in support of a secular government in Iraq. Did anyone really believe we were going to invade Iraq and get out in a year or two...or three? I'd put my money on being there for the next 20-30 years if we continue fighting it as we are now.

I also believe that if we are to fight a war, we need to actually fight one instead of trying to play the kinder, gentler war. War should be so horrible that ending it is the end result from BOTH sides like WW1 and WW2. The whole idea of war is to demoralize the enemy to the point where they stop hostilities regardless of the terms.

If we had a few Pershings, McArthurs and Pattons left in the military, we might could end this conflict in the foreseeable future, but if the politically correct generals and politicans that are currently running our military have THEIR way, were going to have our sons and daughters in a Middle East war forever.

A REAL war is a horrific prospect, but pussyfooting around like we have been for the last 5 years will have consequences that we cannot even imagine.

[jem_is_bi]

I was in an airport on my way home. Needless to say, my flight was canceled. I did not get home for over a week. We will be in various levels of gorilla warfare with these people for a long time. Forget about reasoning with people that get their orders to kill from God. My personal opinion is that we need to be better at picking our battles in the future. In hindsight, Iraq was a poor choice to wage war on terrorists, even if we some how prevail. Probably, this could have been predicted. Hopefully, we will be more effective at choosing where military and political action is required in the future. Otherwise, 9-11 will be eclipsed by even worse.

JEM

[hudson9]

...If a country based since its inception on personal freedoms can be as divided as we are, what can we expect from countries that have never known freedom in any form whatsoever.
The problem is not differences of opinion, even deep ones, the problem is when people in power impose their opinion rather than attempt to reach consensus of some kind. This is what characterizes tyrants of any political philosophy, left or right, fundamentalist or secular. Before the invasion of Iraq, 500,000 people marched down 2nd Ave. in NY to the UN Building (and many more millions around the world) to oppose the invasion, and Dick Cheyney's respons was "we don't make policy by focus group."

...If we had a few Pershings, McArthurs and Pattons left in the military, we might could end this conflict in the foreseeable future, but if the politically correct generals and politicans that are currently running our military have THEIR way, were going to have our sons and daughters in a Middle East war forever.
I'd like to offer a few thoughts from some good old-fashioned generals:

"I have known war as few men now living know it. It's very destructiveness on both friend and foe has rendered it useless as a means of settling international disputes."
- General Douglas MacArthur

"The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living."
- General Omar Bradley

"Every gun that is fired, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. The world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
- General Dwight D. Eisenhower

"If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies."
- General Moshe Dayan (1915 - 1981)

...and a few other thoughts before we decided to continue to throw more "good money after bad..."

"Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary."
- Mahatma Gandhi

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
- Gandhi

"When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die."
- Jean-Paul Sartre


...A REAL war is a horrific prospect, but pussyfooting around like we have been for the last 5 years will have consequences that we cannot even imagine.
If you think that this is anything short of a real war, or anything short of horrific, I invite you to explore http://121contact.typepad.com/ It is a blog that contains emails that have gone between Iraqi and American school children and teachers.

I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on you, midtnbi, because I think you are coming from a concerned point of view. I just don't see the logic of; if we've been doing a bad thing badly, doing that bad thing harder will make things better.

Peace.

[12voltman59]

I like to watch things on the telly like The History Channel--that channel likes to detail things of a military nature, along with the Military Channel from Discovery---

Watching those many programs--so much of our creative energies as a species throughout our history have gone to perfecting weapons of war, from spears to cross bows, to Greek Fire, to trebuchets, to barrel rifling to nuclear weapons and beyond---we have spent so much capital, resources and brainpower on ever better ways to kill each other---

It must be part of our genetic makeup to want to destroy one another----

Just think what we could really accomplish if we decided to truly turn "swords into plowshares" as it were---

I betcha that every person on the planet would not go to bed hungry and sick-they would get educated and they would get things like health care taken care of---and we could produce things to enrich our lives like poetry, literature, music, art and the like that transcend the works we have done in spite of most of our human effort being directed at warfare----

[midtnbi8669]

I don't think your picking on me Hudson! :) I welcome ALL points of view and I have, on occasion, changed my mind based on the thought of others!

To clarify some of my statements, I was totally opposed to the invasion of Iraq. I was totally in support of the invasion of Afghanistan.

I am totally opposed to pulling out of Iraq at this point due to the instability this would create in an already unstable region.

As I said in my first sentence, I consider 9/11 the first battle of WW3, so I realize we ARE AT WAR.

Most every one of our most famous generals were/are opposed to war, like any sane human should be. But that being said, the same generals fought wars so terrible that the enemies were completely destroyed. These men thought that war SHOULD be horrible so that it WOULD be a position of last resort and they fought it as such instead of trying to make soldiers into policemen. The American military is NOT a peace-keeping force. Its a KILLING force and they are very good at their jobs.

We as Americans have to realize that radical Islam seeks the complete conversion of America to Islam or the destruction of America, and they could care less which it is either. I think they would prefer the latter based on their actions. I have yet to see the Islamists bicycling up to my door trying to convert me...have you??? I don't remember seeing Islam trying to reach a consensus with America, and I bet it will not be forthcoming.

My point is that if we are to commit our sons and daughters to a war, we should fight it like a war and end it as quickly as possible using all the weapons and technology at our disposal and bring them to their knees instead of prolonging the conflict into decades and losing more of our soldiers. Vietnam should have taught us this lesson.

I know how all this sounds. It sounds cold and mean. But war should be cold and mean so that we avoid it like the horror that it is and use it only when all other attempts at reconciliation have failed.

Now with the disolution of the Russian parliment, the Iranian nuke programs and the posturing of China and North Korea, we might not have to worry about Iraq much longer. We may be too busy fighting everyone else to worry about it.

I hope and pray that the powers that be realize what most of us already know and everyone backs down and considers the consequences of our actions.

[12voltman59]

I am gonna get a bit "political" here--but man--I cannot stomach Faux (FOX) News on this war in Iraq---

They always bitch that the rest of the media "never talks about the good things going on in Iraq since we overthrew Saddam!!!!"

Well---in my book-- the MSM (mainstream media) has been derelict in their duties in regards to really covering what is happening in this war and the effect it has had upon the lives of Iraqis and the negative overflow to other countries in that region.

Just the other day, my local public radio station aired a documentary that came courtesy of the BBC--it was about the situation of Iraqi women primarily since we invaded--but their lives have been going downhill since the imposition of sanctions back in the late 80s/early 90s.

Back in the heyday of Saddam Hussein, the women of Iraq were the most liberated of all women in the Islamic/Arab nations of the Middle East.

They went to university, attained advanced degrees in medicine, law, the sciences and such and they could work. They wore western clothing and could drive. They held top positions in companies, and the government including ministerial level positions.

Today---since our invasion--all of those gains are going away.

First--thanks to a variety of events including Iraq's war with Iran, the invasion of Kuwait and Gulf War I, the sanctions regime and now-- the current situation--it is estimated that there are over three million Iraqi women who are widowed--that was not such a problem when they could go to work, but now--with all of the factionalism and some very fundamentalist, Islamist groups wielding power--most places in Iraq-- as one woman said in the story--"have been Talibanized."

By this--women can no longer go to school, work outside the home, drive a car, they must wear the hajab or burka depending what you want to call that head to toe sack like thing so many women in the Islamic part of the world must now wear; they cannot leave their homes without being escorted by a male relative---something they don't often have since those men are dead or locked up somewhere.

Many of the women who had some financial resources and connections have fled to places like Jordan and Syria (the numbers of Iraqi refugees who have fled to these and other nearby countries is estimated to be several million at least and that is a growing powder keg for those countries so affected)--but many cannot or could not leave Iraq and are now trapped there.

They have to feed their children and they do work--underground and cladestine (of course)--and if caught--a woman is in deep shit--as one woman in the story was quoted--"if they (the enforcers of Sharia law for the warlords) kill you quickly on the spot--that is a blessing from Allah."

Apparently---many women who are widowed and get caught working without the permission of a man--are subject to immediate death, but they are usally raped, hacked up, stoned first (a woman in the documentary) reported that one female family member caught working was buried alive under a pile of stones untill of course--she was crushed--then died!!!

So much for bringing, contemporary types of "freedom" to the good folks of Iraq.

As many of the women interviewed in the documentary noted--things were not good under Saddam--but you did know from what quarter the evil was coming from and it did have a certain degree of predictability about it--now--danger is everywhere and they all said they would rather be dead than to continue to live life as they now experience it---they fear for their children day-to-day, the future of their children, especially their daughters, and for the future of Iraq itself.

You sure don't see or hear such a story on CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC and the rest of the MSM for the most part---and you surely won't see or hear such tales told on FAUX-News!!!

With the Faux crowd like Hannity, O'Reilly, Hume, et al--Iraq is just one great big picnic ground and every one is prospering and so glad Saddam is dead and buried!!

You might hear something not so sanguine and a bit more truthful coming from Geraldo and maybe Shepherd Smith....I am surprised that Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch let them get away with not totally towing the company line on Iraq---

I don't really care about FAUX though--anyone with even a trace amount of live brain matter knows that FAUX is the mouthpiece of the Bush White House, the Republican National Commitee, whatever the Neo-Cons group is called, The Heritage Foundation, the American Enterprise Institute, The Federalist Society and the rest of the rightwing think tank organizations.

FAUX does not really have much credibilty--its just a bummer that their view represents and reinforces the views of a fair number of folks.

I just wish the rest of the media would do their damn job--if they had -this "war" would have been over two years ago or more and we might have either President Al Gore or John Kerry instead of Chimp!!!! In that regard--if we had Gore as prez--this SNAFU, FUBAR* war would not have taken place to begin with and we would probably have already had Osama Bin Laden before the docket in The Hague.

He'd have been hung or shot by now or be sitting out the rest of his days in a cell in some maximum security European or American prison!!!!

And if you don't know the reality about Bush's approval of "drawing down" 30,000 US troops--that number of soldiers were already slated to come home anyway--their time is more than up---the tours of those troops now in Iraq have been extended far longer than they should have been----

This war is busting our military in many ways--from the toll its taking on the soliders, airmen, Marines, National and Air Guard members--their families and to the equipment that we sent over there--the conditions of high heat, dust and sand have dramatically shortened the lifespans of the trucks, airplanes, choppers and everything else.

Folks--if we have a real situation arises that requires our military (at least massive ground forces to handle the situation)---in a few words--WE ARE FUCKED!!!

I guess we could always lob a few nukes around though!!!!

(SNAFU--Situation Normal All Fucked Up/FUBAR--Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition. These terms came into the vocabulary courtesy of our fighting boys back during the last "good war"-WWII)