UN Report: Human society survival at stake

[12voltman59]

The UN has just released a report 20 years in the making that indicates our way of life is unsustainable:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7060072.stm

And if all of that is not enough to make you depressed---our Great Leader is banging the drums of war again:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/washington/26assess.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Of course, Bush says that they have no plans to go to war against Iran--YET--- but Cheney has been making the rounds giving beligerent speechs about the evils of Iran recently--and if you compare the rhetoric that came from the Bush administration back in 2002 in the lead up to the Iraq War and the new sales job they are cranking up against Iran---it is almost the same--it is almost like they simply changed the last letter from IRAQ to IRA-N and instead of it being Saddam the Hitler like leader-its the Iranian leadership that is Hitler-like this time.

Listening to US Secretary of State Condolezza Rice's statement from Thursday stating all of the conditons Iran must meet in order for them to earn our favor and why the US is imposing more economic sanctions on the Iranian government-----conditions they will never agree to--and that "failure" will be the pretext Bush will use to argue as the justification for war against Iran.

I watched an at length interview with Hans Blix this evening--Blix was the former UN WMD weapons inspector and still works to control such weapons--- he said that-- yes--Iran is working right now on uranimum enrichment that can lead to creating nuclear weapons grade plutonium--but it will take them the better part of a decade to have that capability. It is not something they are going to be able to do tomorrow and certainly not the "clear and present danger" that Bush and his minions are trying to say that the Iranian threat is.

Blix urges active diplomatic engagement with Iran, something the Baker-Hamilton Report (The Iraq Study Group Report) recommended the same thing--not rattling sabers--and not uttering harsh, blustering rhetoric---that only hardens them in their positions. But that is the Commander in Chimp's way--they sure as hell have no idea how to conduct diplomacy or effectively do foreign policy----

I almost wish we could resurrect Nixon and let he and Kissinger run our international relations again---the policies Nixon had may have not been the best---but they did have a certain rationality to them-- and was more in the mode of "Realpolitick" as they used to say---Bush, and his "regime"--for a Republican administraton are pretty well inept at conducting international relations...or maybe that is the plan--totally screw things up and hopefully set off Armegeddon since its the end times anyway!!!!

With all of this positive stuff---"ya'all have a great day now--ya hear??"

:tongue::tongue::tongue::tongue::bigrin::bigrin::b igrin::bigrin::bigrin:

After posting this up--I found something else I found interesting:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20071022_on_the_eve_of_destruction/

[DiamondDog]

We've been fucked since day one.

Cockroaches, other insects, and bacteria will survive us all.

War is a natural part of human evolution and always has been.

[darkeyes]

Thing is DD.. it jus don havta b... its we daft arseholes who let it b...:(

[slocum5]

Israel may do the necessary work since the Iran leader has promised the extinction of Israel. He would nuke Israel in a New York minute.:bigrin:

[darkeyes]

An talkin bout usin Nukes gainst Iran or Israel..or ne one else is cause for a big cheesy grin????

[the mage]

what a joke....a sick one.

The science has been in place for 40 years and typically the fuckin politico's ignore it till its WAY too late.

5.5 Billion too many people, and we keep pumping them out.. idiots.

Several nukes are coming your way, make no mistake, they may not be man made either.

[DiamondDog]

what a joke....a sick one.

The science has been in place for 40 years and typically the fuckin politico's ignore it till its WAY too late.

5.5 Billion too many people, and we keep pumping them out.. idiots.

Several nukes are coming your way, make no mistake, they may not be man made either.

So why did you reproduce? :rolleyes:

[darkeyes]

we all live in hope DD..even if personally me sympathises wivya point...

[Bluebiyou]

The middle east is a lose-lose situation. You've got several entire cultures yet to learn the west's lesson of separation of church and state. Thus you have many power hungry Islamic 'little Hitlers' screaming "jihad" every three days (based on Hitler's principle that nothing unifies a people like a common hatred). On top of that you have Iran who is modeling their covert nuclear program after the North Koreans (deja vu 1995-97). I don't think anyone disagrees that the world can't allow a nuclear Iran. We shouldn't have allowed a nuclear North Korea. Negotiation was clearly a mistake in dealing with North Korea. The world is dangerous enough with a nuclear USA, Russia, France... etc. Then on top of that, yeah, Bush is rather stupid and clearly panders to oil interests. It's good that Bush went on the offensive after 9-11. If we'd wimped out, that would be green flag to Islamic cultures for attacks on usa/west. No matter what, the poorer, less powerful folks in the world will always have hate/envy toward the more powerful/affluent. Also, human nature and economic 'truisms' will always cloud love, caring, morality. This said, my hope for the world diminishes upon demise of USA. What if Stalin suceded? Hitler, Mao... Walmart (oops)... There would be no concern for innocents at all. At least, with the ideology of the west, (the ideology the usa started with anyway) there's a chance. Just imagine if instead of USA, Iran was the top world power. Where would 'free speach', women's rights, religious freedom, sexual freedom, etc. be? War is terrible, horrible, and it will always be with us. It is to be severely avoided, but not at all costs. We (the west - USA/Europe) are corrupt, far from perfect, but probably better than any other practical alternative. When we finally lose (no culture lasts forever), the world will REALLY have something to cry about.
...or am I just rambling?... :soapbox:

[Skater Boy]

Every species has its 15 minutes. The dinosaurs had theirs 250 million years ago, and now we're having ours. Its all part of the natural cycle. I hope that sea-horses, terrapins or hummingbirds inherit the Earth when we've all been wiped out. They are beautiful all creatures, and I doubt you would catch a hummingbird declaring war on anyone, or even blowing anyone up for that matter. Roll on the future...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/JBASHORUN/90022487.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/JBASHORUN/BabyTerrapin.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/JBASHORUN/broad_tailed_hummingbird.jpg

[darkeyes]

The middle east is a lose-lose situation. You've got several entire cultures yet to learn the west's lesson of separation of church and state. Thus you have many power hungry Islamic 'little Hitlers' screaming "jihad" every three days (based on Hitler's principle that nothing unifies a people like a common hatred). On top of that you have Iran who is modeling their covert nuclear program after the North Koreans (deja vu 1995-97). I don't think anyone disagrees that the world can't allow a nuclear Iran. We shouldn't have allowed a nuclear North Korea. Negotiation was clearly a mistake in dealing with North Korea. The world is dangerous enough with a nuclear USA, Russia, France... etc. Then on top of that, yeah, Bush is rather stupid and clearly panders to oil interests. It's good that Bush went on the offensive after 9-11. If we'd wimped out, that would be green flag to Islamic cultures for attacks on usa/west. No matter what, the poorer, less powerful folks in the world will always have hate/envy toward the more powerful/affluent. Also, human nature and economic 'truisms' will always cloud love, caring, morality. This said, my hope for the world diminishes upon demise of USA. What if Stalin suceded? Hitler, Mao... Walmart (oops)... There would be no concern for innocents at all. At least, with the ideology of the west, (the ideology the usa started with anyway) there's a chance. Just imagine if instead of USA, Iran was the top world power. Where would 'free speach', women's rights, religious freedom, sexual freedom, etc. be? War is terrible, horrible, and it will always be with us. It is to be severely avoided, but not at all costs. We (the west - USA/Europe) are corrupt, far from perfect, but probably better than any other practical alternative. When we finally lose (no culture lasts forever), the world will REALLY have something to cry about.
...or am I just rambling?... :soapbox:
I may agree with you on much of this blue.. but in the end you make the typically cliched mistake of all who believe their culture and their way must triumph and that there is no other way. Thats what you are saying. Peoples and cultures are different, their belief systems differ, how they wish to live is different. It is not who is right or wrong.. it is learning to accept and understand, accept and tolerate difference. And live together in harmony on this one little blue/green/brown/sandy place we call home. You and I live in cultures which officially at least, if not in reality, accept this.. other cultures have yet to learn it.. may never learn it, but I am hopeful that someday this shall be the case.

Would the world be better off if the USA and Europe disappeared into the mists of history? Who can tell. Is Catholic Spain better off for the loss of Andalusia and the Islamic Moors? Its an arrogance to presume our way is so much better and that its the only way. I would much rather live in my own little part of the world in the way I do than in Iran or China or in any other country which does not share my ideas of liberty and freedom. Yet had I been raised in those other lands.. would I have yearned to live as I do now? Would I have been the rebel I believe myself to be? Or, having been raised differently, with a different set of core beliefs, would I have settled down and lived my life as best I can within that system? Who can tell..

Such nations are always depicted as places people wish to leave for freedom or betterment. I know several Americans who left the US to live here just for that..as I know of many Britons who wish to do that themselves.. and have done it.. not all chose North America or Australasia.. some chose places which seem to me to be much less attractive for religious or cultural or other factors..and not all were non-ethnic Britons.

We believe ourselves to be multicultural nations, the US and Britain..if we truly believe that..can we not stop ranting on about being better than anyone else, and by definition being right? Is it so impossible to try and understand the peoples in places of which we know little save that which our politicians and media tell us? Is it so difficult to believe that, for them, their way is also as right as ours, and equally valid?

[Bluebiyou]

Darkeyes, you simply do not cease impressing me. You are 1 of 5 moral women I know of. I already held this opinion from seeing some other of your posts.
I agree very much with your point. "What makes us the good guys and 'them' the bad guys?" Everyone thinks of themselves as the 'good guys'. Of course you're right.
My point is that all human ideologies are imperfect, but that some are clearly worse than others. Living under a Stalinist, Maoist, Nazi facism would be very bad. Living under worldwide Islamic law, I'm pretty sure would be not much better (same guideline - there is one truth). Our (west) embracing humanism (personal non-violent freedom) faces direct hypocrisy when we incorporate violence. At what point do we become as bad as the Nazis by using violence to sustain and/or profit ourselves?
We've seen communism suggested - never panned out to be the heaven Marx hoped - it never leaves the socialism stage.
The Unabomber manifesto suggests the inherent evil progression of technology, to which there is some truth, but no practical method of restraint.
Even our beloved capitalism is quickly eating away the resources, but not to worry; the breeding habits of the world will cause the same effect if given another 20 years.
Yup, human lemmings heading for a big cliff. Whether that cliff is mass starvation, plague, disaster, or war (more probably a combination). It's not a question of if, but when and how. 6 billion and growing faster than any man can count.
So lets save the earth by killing ourselves. Oh wait, there's something wrong with that logic... I don't know Darkeyes... do you have any insights or ideas? I was warned by my elders that once you embark on a meaning-of-life journey, you will never get there; there is no answer, only simplistic 'truisms'. And such it is, the best 'answer' to the meaning-of-life question is the simple apolitical "so that ye may have the joy of existence". :banghead:

[MarieDelta]

Ok here she goes again, shooting her mouth off.


1. I think humans have a lot to learn. Unfortunately with the invention of Nuclear weapons it makes it that much more critical that we learn it now.
We are like cavemen wandering in a cave with matches up to our knees in gasoline. Each move we make puts us further at risk. Our only hope is to learn to accept each others difference and embrace the whole of humanity as our tribe.

Unfortunately I see little of this happening, we push and punch and claw our way to where the other guy is and then look around at the destruction we've caused. Religion & science cannot create the answer for us. We as humans are far too willing to use what we have against the other guy. Our religions only serve to bolster our own positions and blind us to the other guys humanity.

We are walking a tightrope here, using resources at an alarming rate. Creating global ecological disasters. Killing and maiming our fellow man.

With effort we could make this place a green and lush heaven. We could be feeding the world. We aren't. Why?

[darkeyes]

We never shall get there Blue. All we can do is to carry on the journey which was begun when our species first had a thought. All we can do is hand over to those who come after whatever insights we have and hope they too strive in that search and hand on to their successors.

I do have my own thoughts regarding communism and Im afraid they wouldnt agree with yours. Some of them are in threads somewhere. Stalinism and Maoism, Fascism and Nazism are another thing to me, as are all man made personality based credos. I think we can kiss and come to some semblence of unity there, save possibly for Cuba, for that is one I do have some very definite and sympathetic opinions on...

[darkeyes]

Ok here she goes again, shooting her mouth off.


1. I think humans have a lot to learn. Unfortunately with the invention of Nuclear weapons it makes it that much more critical that we learn it now.
We are like cavemen wandering in a cave with matches up to our knees in gasoline. Each move we make puts us further at risk. Our only hope is to learn to accept each others difference and embrace the whole of humanity as our tribe.

Unfortunately I see little of this happening, we push and punch and claw our way to where the other guy is and then look around at the destruction we've caused. Religion & science cannot create the answer for us. We as humans are far too willing to use what we have against the other guy. Our religions only serve to bolster our own positions and blind us to the other guys humanity.

We are walking a tightrope here, using resources at an alarming rate. Creating global ecological disasters. Killing and maiming our fellow man.

With effort we could make this place a green and lush heaven. We could be feeding the world. We aren't. Why?Because Marie, our species is run by ruthless, corrupt, bent, shitty, greasy and viscious arseholes... and too many of our kind are quite happy with that... we are the inheritors of the first powerful thinking man. The first to say and do anything to keep his position...

[MarieDelta]

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z84/mariesophia66/Pearls_WP_endo1_800.gif

Can I run away now?

[darkeyes]

Lol.. where 2 Marie?? Everywer the same....:tong:

[12voltman59]

I love the cartoon Marie--great, just great.

I found this interesting, if almost humorous column, it would be really funny if it were not so true:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-brooks24oct25,1,7999194.column?track=rss&ctrack=1&cset=true

To a point I made in the kick off post--I do think Nixon actually was pretty good in terms of the way he and his administration conducted international relations--but he was pretty scary otherwise and I bet in terms of the way BushCo has extended the notion of "the unitary executive," presidential powers and the like--Nixon is probably dancing a jig where ever he is. He would never have imagined that a president could get away with so much-but in a way we can thank Nixon for our current situation---Dick Cheney was a Nixon aparatchnik protege, who in his time at the Nixon White House, came to hate any restraints on executive powers.

[GreenEyedLady(GEL)]

I almost wish we could resurrect Nixon and let he and Kissinger run our international relations again---the policies Nixon had may have not been the best---but they did have a certain rationality to them-- and was more in the mode of "Realpolitick" as they used to say---Bush, and his "regime"--for a Republican administraton are pretty well inept at conducting international relations...or maybe that is the plan--totally screw things up and hopefully set off Armegeddon since its the end times anyway!!!!
"
I was recently told that my dwelling on the end times and the lift of of Armegeddon are becoming a tad bit morbid lol This coming from my sister in law , a pre-trib , premillenium , christian fundimentalist. I thought It was odd that she said that considering we share most of the same views with the exceptiion of a few finer details. How can I not dwell ? Granted I don't live each day like tomorrow will be a nuclear holocaust, thats enough to drive anyone insane, but whose to say it won't happen ? The is already a pre-emptive nuclear stike layout for Iran. Massive air assault. All we're waiting on is for someone grow big enough balls to pull the toggle switch. Could happen tomorrow.
I appreciate the thread DD, if I weren't a news junkie I could just as easily hide in my rinky dink town and pretend nothing is going on in this world, and some do. People need to be aware just how bad off the world is and that the "end" really can come at any second. [/SIZE]