Help Stamp Out This Senseless Slaughter

[chook]

Hi peoples, www.whalesrevenge.com is trying to get a million people to sign a petition to try ans stop the needless killing of whales by Japan for socalled scientific research, if you get a spare moment could you please check out the site and sign the petition you never know we all just might make a difference. And please pass this on to all your families and friends. Thanks for your support.


Cheers Chook & Aussie :bigrin:

[ambi53mm]

Hi peoples, www.whalesrevenge.com is trying to get a million people to sign a petition to try ans stop the needless killing of whales by Japan for socalled scientific research, if you get a spare moment could you please check out the site and sign the petition you never know we all just might make a difference. And please pass this on to all your families and friends. Thanks for your support.


Cheers Chook & Aussie :bigrin:

With the hope that someday "something worthwhile" that I sign might make a difference.... Oh..and as long as I don't wind up back in the Army...FTA 67-70

Ambi:)

[Bisexualnewbie]

Signed it, as for me I miss the Army actually.

[ambi53mm]

Signed it, as for me I miss the Army actually.

I've been inactive for 38 years. and miss the depth and closeness of those friendships I experienced....on many levels..however as a medic...the images of senseless slaughter still linger after all these years...I feel for those that carry images far more horrible than mine.. both then and now....All life is sacred...whales included.....Lesson Learned. Aho.

Ambi

[FalconAngel]

Signed and sent on to others.

I miss many things about the Army, myself (7/78-2/84).
I was an RTO for the headquarters company of an infantry brigade. Nice work, driving for the S3, mostly, but the idea that 5 seconds on the air can get my position bombed wasn't something that I relished.

We had some good times though.

[DiamondDog]

The military won't take me. <eg>

[darkeyes]

Miss the military much as a whalie misses an explosive harpoon in its brain.... bad enuff we massacre each otha but wotwe dus 2 whales is yet anotha condemnation of the arrogance an shittiness of mankind. an we signed it asyad expect.

[diseminator]

My military career was short and not sweet.
I have family that are lifers and love it, but it was not for me.

[liquidcandycain]

well i am for not killing whales unless there's a valid reason and with todays science and tech i really cant see why anything cant be reproduced in a lab the conditons ect so i signed it as for the military ehhhh the fuckers have got me till 2011 atleast and in jan i head off to afghany add tis one to the list korea 2 times egypt 1 iraq 1 and now afghan but hey i dont bitch about the pay even tho the guy doing my job in the civ world makes in a year what i make in 3 but it have been interesting and allowed me to buy a house and a new car just wised we wasnt broke lol

[**Peg**]

Hi peoples, www.whalesrevenge.com ..... please pass this on to all your families and friends. Thanks for your support.


Cheers Chook & Aussie :bigrin:

signed and sent to a SCAD of other peeps chook:bigrin:

[CuddlyKate]

Just a small insignificant point. Is this thread about the senseless slaughter of magnificent animals or about how much some people love or hate or miss the military life? It both debases and ridicules the point of the thread, and I suggest you find a more appropriate one to let off steam about it.

[Moto1]

Hi peoples, www.whalesrevenge.com is trying to get a million people to sign a petition to try ans stop the needless killing of whales by Japan for socalled scientific research, if you get a spare moment could you please check out the site and sign the petition you never know we all just might make a difference. And please pass this on to all your families and friends. Thanks for your support.


Cheers Chook & Aussie :bigrin:

I've never understood... why should whales be protected any more than any other animal? It is my understanding that their numbers have regenerated to the extent that this will hardly cause extinction, and beyond that I cannot with moral authority stand against them being used as a resource, as I am complicit in the use of many other creatures as a resource here, be it food or whatever. What is so special about a whale that it deserves special protection?

[Skater Boy]

I've never understood... why should whales be protected any more than any other animal? It is my understanding that their numbers have regenerated to the extent that this will hardly cause extinction, and beyond that I cannot with moral authority stand against them being used as a resource, as I am complicit in the use of many other creatures as a resource here, be it food or whatever. What is so special about a whale that it deserves special protection?

Thats actually an interesting point. In theory, as long as the whale population is reasonably healthy, there shouldn't be any reason why culling them would be a big problem.

I guess most of the people who signed this petition did so on the grounds that killing them is unethical, and in opposition to their views on animal rights.

However, I would be curious to know just how many of those people condone or benefit from the culling or killing of any other species of animal.

I'm not sure of the circumstances surrounding whale culling. But I do currently benefit from the death of other animals, such as cows, pigs, chickens, etc.

So... would it be hypocritical for me to sign this petition? For fear of being a hypocrite, I shall refrain from signing it just now... but if anyone can proove to me that it wouldn't then I will go ahead and do so.

[CuddlyKate]

It is no point at all. It is a question of how much you value the world aound you and how much heart you have. I suppose it is true that they should be protected no more than any other species, but that doesnt not give us the right to destroy so much that is wonderful. Many whales are still in danger of extinction just like many other protected species. The recovery in numbers is heartening but they still are nothing like as common as they were only a century ago.

Frances made a remark about explosive harpoons earlier in this thread in a very exasperated manner. This is an appalling and inhumane way to kill an animal. Whales take many hours and often after several harpoons have entered their bodies to die in the most agonising manner. It is a disgusting way to kill an animal and any who say otherwise should be ashamed of themselves.

If we care about our world we will end whaling once and for all and allow them to live or die as nature intended. Apart from the eating of whale meat, every other commodity which whales are hunted for can be found a substitute and a more than adequate substitute. It is unnecessary and a disgraceful way to treat an magnificently beautiful species and should be stopped forthwith.

[Skater Boy]

It is no point at all. It is a question of how much you value the world aound you and how much heart you have. I suppose it is true that they should be protected no more than any other species, but that doesnt not give us the right to destroy so much that is wonderful. Many whales are still in danger of extinction just like many other protected species. The recovery in numbers is heartening but they still are nothing like as common as they were only a century ago.

Frances made a remark about explosive harpoons earlier in this thread in a very exasperated manner. This is an appalling and inhumane way to kill an animal. Whales take many hours and often after several harpoons have entered their bodies to die in the most agonising manner. It is a disgusting way to kill an animal and any who say otherwise should be ashamed of themselves.

If we care about our world we will end whaling once and for all and allow them to live or die as nature intended. Apart from the eating of whale meat, every other commodity which whales are hunted for can be found a substitute and a more than adequate substitute. It is unnecessary and a disgraceful way to treat an magnificently beautiful species and should be stopped forthwith.

I agree... harpooning them sounds quite barbaric, if thats what they are still doing.

I do value the world around me. But I'm now wondering if we shouldn't start petitions for the other animal species that we kill too.

It would probably do no harm to ensure that, if we MUST kill animals, it is done humanely (if it isn't already).

[Moto1]

It is no point at all. It is a question of how much you value the world aound you and how much heart you have.

I'm sorry, but this is just emotional manipulation. It is hardly a good arguement to state that 'it is a question of how much heart you have'. Do you believe in your view so little that you have to stoop to such blatant attempts to label the other side as heartless in principle?


I suppose it is true that they should be protected no more than any other species, but that doesnt not give us the right to destroy so much that is wonderful. Many whales are still in danger of extinction just like many other protected species. The recovery in numbers is heartening but they still are nothing like as common as they were only a century ago.

This is true. However the numbers the Japanese are taking are very few, not enough to cause any damage to the survival of the species. The international community is watching, so they cannot politically afford to take too many.


Frances made a remark about explosive harpoons earlier in this thread in a very exasperated manner. This is an appalling and inhumane way to kill an animal. Whales take many hours and often after several harpoons have entered their bodies to die in the most agonising manner. It is a disgusting way to kill an animal and any who say otherwise should be ashamed of themselves.

Well this IS an argument why whaling should at the very least be done differently. Perhaps you would have better luck petitioning for more humane methods of killing them?


If we care about our world we will end whaling once and for all and allow them to live or die as nature intended. Apart from the eating of whale meat, every other commodity which whales are hunted for can be found a substitute and a more than adequate substitute. It is unnecessary and a disgraceful way to treat an magnificently beautiful species and should be stopped forthwith.

What does the beauty of the species have to do with their right to live? That can hardly be a criteria for their survival, that would be a very shallow ethical argument.

If one is against the eating, or use of animals (i.e a vegetarian or a vegan), then I can see an argument for them signing up to this petition. It is another use of animals for human purposes. However beyond that argument, I am not convinced. I still do not see why they are any different.

[CuddlyKate]

Moto "I'm sorry, but this is just emotional manipulation. It is hardly a good arguement to state that 'it is a question of how much heart you have'. Do you believe in your view so little that you have to stoop to such blatant attempts to label the other side as heartless in principle?"


Yes its emotional but hardly manipulation. It is but a small part of a whole argument, and is equally as valid as the Japanese claim that it is for scientific study, something which can be much more scientifically done with live rather than dead animals.


Moto "This is true. However the numbers the Japanese are taking are very few, not enough to cause any damage to the survival of the species. The international community is watching, so they cannot politically afford to take too many."


The numbers are slowly creeping up, as is the numbers the Norwegians and Icelandics intend to kill. It is but the thin end of the wedge.



Moto "Well this IS an argument why whaling should at the very least be done differently. Perhaps you would have better luck petitioning for more humane methods of killing them?"


I do not believe in killing any animal unless for food, and then only if no alternative exists. Alternatives to killing whales for food do exist and therefore your argument is spurious. As with all other whale by procucts these can be found in other ways and produced synthetically as well as by natural means. This further makes any argument for their killing irelevant. I have sympthy for some aboriginal peoples who hunt whales but do so not with explosive harpoons but in the old fashioned way and these hunts are often unsuccessful. I do think however if possible these peoples should be persuaded to stop the practice, but if any hunting was to still remnan that and only that would I countenence, albeit reluctantly.



Moto "What does the beauty of the species have to do with their right to live? That can hardly be a criteria for their survival, that would be a very shallow ethical argument. If one is against the eating, or use of animals (i.e a vegetarian or a vegan), then I can see an argument for them signing up to this petition. It is another use of animals for human purposes. However beyond that argument, I am not convinced. I still do not see why they are any different."


This is certainly the weakest part of any argument I accept, and even ugly beasts have the right to survival. I do however challenge any who has seen a whale to deny their beauty and wonder, and their right to a continued existence.

The whole thing is that we have and are destroying so much of our natural world that before long there will be so little left. I do not wish my children to be stripped of the opportunity to know that we share this world with other life forms and that they too have a ight to exist. I wish them to know that animals are only killed from necessity, and not through convenience or simply for profit. All species have a right to life and it is not for us to rob them of it. That we do too often and we have to stop before it is too late. It is also debatble whether some spcies of whales are sufficiently recovered to allow hunting even if it was necessary. Hump Backs for one.

[darkeyes]

I'm sorry, but this is just emotional manipulation. It is hardly a good arguement to state that 'it is a question of how much heart you have'. Do you believe in your view so little that you have to stoop to such blatant attempts to label the other side as heartless in principle?



This is true. However the numbers the Japanese are taking are very few, not enough to cause any damage to the survival of the species. The international community is watching, so they cannot politically afford to take too many.



Well this IS an argument why whaling should at the very least be done differently. Perhaps you would have better luck petitioning for more humane methods of killing them?



What does the beauty of the species have to do with their right to live? That can hardly be a criteria for their survival, that would be a very shallow ethical argument.

If one is against the eating, or use of animals (i.e a vegetarian or a vegan), then I can see an argument for them signing up to this petition. It is another use of animals for human purposes. However beyond that argument, I am not convinced. I still do not see why they are any different.
Not gonna get involved 2 much ere Moto babes..Kate can fite er own battles..all me sez 2 ya is this... ya cums out wiv bout same standarda crap as the motorway service stations ya named afta dish up as so called nosh... expensive, unpalatable an bullshit... an enuff 2 make ne decent human bein boak ther ring up...

[chook]

I've never understood... why should whales be protected any more than any other animal? It is my understanding that their numbers have regenerated to the extent that this will hardly cause extinction, and beyond that I cannot with moral authority stand against them being used as a resource, as I am complicit in the use of many other creatures as a resource here, be it food or whatever. What is so special about a whale that it deserves special protection?

Well Moto1.....I live on the east coast of Australia and I get to see these magnificent creatures every year, not only me but people come from all around the world to do a bit of whale watching and enjoy the splendor of these huge but gentle mammals. Thats one reason I myself would like to see the slaughter stopped.

The second reason is the Japanese are saying that they are targeting one particular species for scientific research supposedly to be carried out at their restaurants. I ask you this, once they wipe one species because their scientific research wasn't complete, Whats to stop them killing off another species and it goes on. It really seems to me that you are the perfect example of the old saying "Fuck You Jack I'm OK" I could go on but I'm not going to bother, all I was asking is that if you feel strong enough to try and stop the killings to just sign the petition, I or anyone else shouldn't have to justify or explain to you or anyone else why we think the whales need special protection.


Cheers Chook & Aussie :bigrin:

[Moto1]

Well Moto1.....I live on the east coast of Australia and I get to see these magnificent creatures every year, not only me but people come from all around the world to do a bit of whale watching and enjoy the splendor of these huge but gentle mammals. Thats one reason I myself would like to see the slaughter stopped.

But again, that's not really an argument for why they should have additional protection. The beauty of a creature cannot determine its right to life, that isn't much of a moral argument.

Or is this not a moral argument? Are you saying they should be protected so that you retain what amounts to a beautiful landmark, and not for their own sake? It seems to be twisting the process of international law a little, to push for a global law merely to protect a local pastime such as whale watching.


The second reason is the Japanese are saying that they are targeting one particular species for scientific research supposedly to be carried out at their restaurants. I ask you this, once they wipe one species because their scientific

research wasn't complete, Whats to stop them killing off another species and it goes on.

That's all very well, but there is no evidence that they are killing enough to even make a dent in the numbers of just one species of whale. If you have the data available I would be very glad to see it, however I have never seen anything that gives any indication that they are taking too many. After all, if they can help it, why would they? It just uses up a national resource that otherwise can last indefinitely.



It really seems to me that you are the perfect example of the old saying "Fuck You Jack I'm OK" I could go on but I'm not going to bother, all I was asking is that if you feel strong enough to try and stop the killings to just sign the petition, I or anyone else shouldn't have to justify or explain to you or anyone else why we think the whales need special protection.

How am I that? I am merely trying to work out if there is indeed a legitimate concern here, or if it is merely an emotional knee-jerk reaction, to the killing of a creature we have fallen in love with in novels and on the silver screen. I am neither for or against whale-hunting until I have hearded the rational arguments of both sides.

The reason why you should have to justify it, is because you are asking people to enter into a legal process, or do you think they intend to just throw that petition away when you are done? They are presumably going to put it to an international judgmental body, which means everyone who has signed it has signed themselves up for a legal process under international jurisdiction, and hence you should inform them WHY they are signing!

Surely if you believe you are in the right, you would WANT to explain your thoughts on this matter? Then you could convince many more people to sign your petition!

Edit: I went on that site, and found no information about why the whales deserved this protection. I then went to its affiliated sites, and found the most propagandistic writing I have seen in a long time, outside of the fundamentalist Christian church. I cannot find ANYONE who has a rational argument, they all lower themselves to using emotive language to pull on the heart strings, which is hardly a rational debate.

[darkeyes]

yas reely an odious lil man Moto... Ther a name for 1 who cant c in front of is nose cept that wich e wants 2.... Bushite..the shite is bout rite 2... Scots hav a word for ya 2.. sleekit..an that bout describes ya...twist an turn an try an get outa tite corner like lil slippery eel... yas cum up wiv not 1 argument for killin whales...not 1..only that ther no reason 2 protect em ne more than ne otha forma animal..give ya 1.... as human beins an supposedly the only thinkin creatures on planet, certainly the 1 wich rules the roost an think it owns the place..its our obligation 2 protect the world about us... we don..we plunder it an butcher ne thin that stands in our way... ne thin wer we mite make a fast buck...

Ther is NO NEED 2 kill whales..like ther NO NEED 2 slaughter an butcher a whole loada species... we dus it in part 2 prove we can..an we dus it cos they in the way..an we dus it for quick profit..an we dus it cos as a species we hav long since ceased 2 care for eitha ourselves or the world about us... human beins r a bastard of a species.. if it cant care for itself an slaughters its own in huge numbas wtf shud it care bout en thin else??? Yas symptomatic of our species... blinded by selfishness an greed an by a need 2 b betta than owt else..prob even ne 1 else... yas a smart arse who is beneath contempt jus as 2 b honest most of humanity is.. anya don lissen..an ya don digest wotsa plain in fronta ya.. ya don c owt cept that wichya wanna an decry every 1 who takes issue wivya by dismissin ther arguments as bollox...sure sign of a magnitude size 1 tithead... rya tithead Moto?? Cos ifya aint..ya gorra lotta provin 2 do...

All argument is a form of propaganda.. all propaganda a form of argument..sum honest an sum aint... best me can tell only way u mite b convinced of a need 2 protect ne thin is if ther wos nun left 2 protect..even then yad prob say..its fukkin propaganda of the worst kind...

If this cums ova as emotive..then triff..gud..cos it is... its way me is... its cos me cares bout this world me lives in...an wantsta c it betta..its cos me cares bout me own species an wantsta c it betta.. best me can tell is u like most of rest of humanity... interested in imself an wot e can get..an it don matta the cost 2 eitha is own kinda..an certainly not 2 ne otha...

Don make ne apologies for gettin personal ere... them that don care bout the world me loves an lives in an seeks by ignorance accident or design its destruction makes it personal 2 me... them that has contempt for life of creatures in this world we shud b protectin makes it personal 2 me..

[CuddlyKate]

I do believe you have annoyed Frances Moto1. Never usually a wise thing to do but I wish you luck.

What I am interested in knowing from you is the answer to a simple question. You have railed on about emotional arguments and the like and no one having put up any arguments as to why whales should be protected any more than any other creature. It is possible we are not following the same thread, but I do not believe this to be the case. My question is this - what are the arguments for killing them?

[Moto1]

yas reely an odious lil man Moto... Ther a name for 1 who cant c in front of is nose cept that wich e wants 2.... Bushite..the shite is bout rite 2... Scots hav a word for ya 2.. sleekit..an that bout describes ya...twist an turn an try an get outa tite corner like lil slippery eel... yas cum up wiv not 1 argument for killin whales...not 1..only that ther no reason 2 protect em ne more than ne otha forma animal..give ya 1.... as human beins an supposedly the only thinkin creatures on planet, certainly the 1 wich rules the roost an think it owns the place..its our obligation 2 protect the world about us... we don..we plunder it an butcher ne thin that stands in our way... ne thin wer we mite make a fast buck...

Ther is NO NEED 2 kill whales..like ther NO NEED 2 slaughter an butcher a whole loada species... we dus it in part 2 prove we can..an we dus it cos they in the way..an we dus it for quick profit..an we dus it cos as a species we hav long since ceased 2 care for eitha ourselves or the world about us... human beins r a bastard of a species.. if it cant care for itself an slaughters its own in huge numbas wtf shud it care bout en thin else??? Yas symptomatic of our species... blinded by selfishness an greed an by a need 2 b betta than owt else..prob even ne 1 else... yas a smart arse who is beneath contempt jus as 2 b honest most of humanity is.. anya don lissen..an ya don digest wotsa plain in fronta ya.. ya don c owt cept that wichya wanna an decry every 1 who takes issue wivya by dismissin ther arguments as bollox...sure sign of a magnitude size 1 tithead... rya tithead Moto?? Cos ifya aint..ya gorra lotta provin 2 do...

All argument is a form of propaganda.. all propaganda a form of argument..sum honest an sum aint... best me can tell only way u mite b convinced of a need 2 protect ne thin is if ther wos nun left 2 protect..even then yad prob say..its fukkin propaganda of the worst kind...

If this cums ova as emotive..then triff..gud..cos it is... its way me is... its cos me cares bout this world me lives in...an wantsta c it betta..its cos me cares bout me own species an wantsta c it betta.. best me can tell is u like most of rest of humanity... interested in imself an wot e can get..an it don matta the cost 2 eitha is own kinda..an certainly not 2 ne otha...

Don make ne apologies for gettin personal ere... them that don care bout the world me loves an lives in an seeks by ignorance accident or design its destruction makes it personal 2 me... them that has contempt for life of creatures in this world we shud b protectin makes it personal 2 me..

Oh please, you have not even heard a word of my opinion. You know nothing about me from this, except that I shy away from knee-jerk emotional reactions, and try and work out WHY something is wrong.

All I have done is asked a question, rephrasing it time and time again in the vain hope someone would attempt to answer it, however all I got was an every increasing stream of insults. To be honest I hadn't expected anything more, people tend to be vehement about their opinions and detest the eye of the objective observer who (shock horror!) hasn't made up his or her mind yet, and hence tries to hear the arguments of both sides.


I do believe you have annoyed Frances Moto1. Never usually a wise thing to do but I wish you luck.

What I am interested in knowing from you is the answer to a simple question. You have railed on about emotional arguments and the like and no one having put up any arguments as to why whales should be protected any more than any other creature. It is possible we are not following the same thread, but I do not believe this to be the case. My question is this - what are the arguments for killing them?

The same as killing any other animal, for human benefit. I personally don't know where I stand on this, ethically it is difficult. It seems self-evident that all creatures deserve the same protection, but does that mean I am morally obliged to save the life of an insect, or should be charged with murder for swatting a fly? Personally, that doesn't seem right to me. So I concede that some creatures have lesser rights. So then comes the problem: how do I determine when they should have greater rights? Should it suddenly switch from no rights to full rights, or is there a sliding scale? On what should I determine whether a certain creature deserves rights, out of the many factors to choose from? I really don't know.

Personally, I am not a vegetarian, or a vegan. Perhaps I shall become one some day, but currently I am complicit in the murder of thousands of creatures every day. Is that immoral? If you think it is, and hence ARE a vegetarian or a vegan, then fair enough. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and with that their own moral code. I wish you good luck, and can certainly see your argument for saving the whales, since you have already stated that animals have the right to life.

However if you are NOT a vegetarian or a vegan, like me, then we have a more complex problem. Where do whales fall on the scale of rights? I honestly don't know. I am currently (through my deeds of eating meat) demonstrating that I cannot declare all animals to have a right to life. So I am left not knowing if whales should be a special case, and if so, why? The fact that the idea of whale hunting is repulsive to be is by-the-by, I cannot condone limiting the freedoms of another human being merely to avoid my squeamish nature; I must have a rational, moral argument behind me.

And that is why I asked if there was a reason why they deserved special dispensation. If there is a good reason, then I would be very happy to help put a stop to a morally wrong deed, however I cannot prove this is wrong.

Now you have strong beliefs in this matter, all of you, and I respect that. However I cannot respect imposing ones moral beliefs on others without a reason behind them, otherwise we are no better than the fundamentalist Christians (for example) who would make us as a community illegal.

Now having said that, is there anyone willing to actually have an ethical discussion about this? Or is everyone enjoying insulting me so much they don't want to stop?

[jeancarleo]

SIGNED....I'M VEGETARIAN SO I CARE FOR ALL ANIMALS:)

[DiamondDog]

Does signing a petition actually even ever do anything or accomplish anything?

I think that Greenpeace has the better idea.:bigrin:

[darkeyes]

Actually agrees wiv ya DD...direct action is a much betta way of dealin wiv things than petitions.. but petitions r gud if only for drawin things inta the public domian..they can only b a small parta much larger campaign wich involves direct action gainst woteva it is ya don like..in this case whalin...

An u Moto hasnt forgotten ya... so ya a fence sitter.. ya aint made ya mind up..afta alla that?? Man who walk down middla road gets flattened by fukkin gr8 lorry!!! Its gud thatya question things hun.. me dus it alla the time.. but wiv everythin ya says..ya seems 2 b questionin not the need for..but the need "why stop?".

Yea me been emotional..is an emotional issue cos me cares bout the world me lives in, Do not belive in doin ne thin wich is not for human need..not human benefit.. an whalin is for neitha..mayb benefit of a few japanese an scandinavian fat cats, few restaurant owners an luffers a whale burgers or woteva. But need?? Hardly. Ther is nowt that human beins cant do 2 provide substitutes for that whalin provides..not 1 thing. Even get a substitute for whale meat.. jeez we hav enuff domesticated options 2 even do that. Cant send em 2 an abattoir like ya dus 2 cows an sheep!

Wild animals r jus that.. wild.. we don need 2 kill em as we dus..from tigers 2 whales we shud treasure em as a part of our world. By usin an slaughterin em as we do we mite hav a short term benefit for ver few human beins such as the fat cats an restaurant owners in Japa..but the imbalance ther destruction causes in the natural world creates us probs wich our descendants r gonna havta live wiv. In the UK for instance, erradication of several predatory species has allowed many other species wich r considered pests to flourish an becum pests. Ther r examples of this all ova the planet. We interfere wiv the natural balance at our peril an already ther r strains showin in part because of our slaughter of many species an our introduction of many, sumtimes replacement predators to the environments of many if not all countries.

We slaughter whole hosts of species "for human benefit". We do it for reasons me has outlined before.. we dus it also 2 stretch our livin environment an make room for ourselves. But me wud argue the cost is 2 gr8 an thata shuman beins we hav the wit, the technology an the know how 2 find betta options. An wer we don hav the technology we find an develop it.

The Norwegian an Japanese whale hunts r a scandal. They r not necessary. We do not benefit as a species by them happnin in ne way. Sure as hell the whales do not! We shud b guardians of our world an protectors of all life within it save that which we NEED 2 survive and prosper as a species. Killin whales does nuthin 2 meet that end.

An 2 ansa ya question..no me not a veggie or a vegan..me eats meat.. an fish..sum. Has a balanced diet wich keeps me healthy. But wot me munches inta is bred for the purpose mostly, tho am fonda rabbit..cute lil beasties wich can b a pest an not jus 2 farmers.. an create imbalances in our countryside cos ther not enuff predators left 2 keep ther numbas down. Australians know all bout the lil buggas 2... white man introduced them ther afta havin bumped of mosta the native creatures wich mita help keep em down. An thats the crunch reely... we hav the knowledge to provide food domestically without, save in certain specific circumstances, 2 make the wildlife slaughter unnecessary. Whales r no exception. Wer the seas so crowded wiv whales that otha life forms wer suffrin an the natural balance was endangered..mayb then me wud support it..but it aint... an so their huntin an killin is simply an unnecessary and greedy act of politics an commercialism..

Our world don hav enuff of nature left as it is. Ther r more important issues than whales.. preservation of the rain forest, desertification an the pollution of our planet r but 3... but if we cant make the effort an succeed in a small isssue like whale protection in particul.. wot hope hav we of gettin close 2 solvin the much gr8er problems we as a species face???

[Moto1]

Actually agrees wiv ya DD...direct action is a much betta way of dealin wiv things than petitions.. but petitions r gud if only for drawin things inta the public domian..they can only b a small parta much larger campaign wich involves direct action gainst woteva it is ya don like..in this case whalin...

An u Moto hasnt forgotten ya... so ya a fence sitter.. ya aint made ya mind up..afta alla that?? Man who walk down middla road gets flattened by fukkin gr8 lorry!!! Its gud thatya question things hun.. me dus it alla the time.. but wiv everythin ya says..ya seems 2 b questionin not the need for..but the need "why stop?".

Yea me been emotional..is an emotional issue cos me cares bout the world me lives in, Do not belive in doin ne thin wich is not for human need..not human benefit.. an whalin is for neitha..mayb benefit of a few japanese an scandinavian fat cats, few restaurant owners an luffers a whale burgers or woteva. But need?? Hardly. Ther is nowt that human beins cant do 2 provide substitutes for that whalin provides..not 1 thing. Even get a substitute for whale meat.. jeez we hav enuff domesticated options 2 even do that. Cant send em 2 an abattoir like ya dus 2 cows an sheep!

Wild animals r jus that.. wild.. we don need 2 kill em as we dus..from tigers 2 whales we shud treasure em as a part of our world. By usin an slaughterin em as we do we mite hav a short term benefit for ver few human beins such as the fat cats an restaurant owners in Japa..but the imbalance ther destruction causes in the natural world creates us probs wich our descendants r gonna havta live wiv. In the UK for instance, erradication of several predatory species has allowed many other species wich r considered pests to flourish an becum pests. Ther r examples of this all ova the planet. We interfere wiv the natural balance at our peril an already ther r strains showin in part because of our slaughter of many species an our introduction of many, sumtimes replacement predators to the environments of many if not all countries.

We slaughter whole hosts of species "for human benefit". We do it for reasons me has outlined before.. we dus it also 2 stretch our livin environment an make room for ourselves. But me wud argue the cost is 2 gr8 an thata shuman beins we hav the wit, the technology an the know how 2 find betta options. An wer we don hav the technology we find an develop it.

The Norwegian an Japanese whale hunts r a scandal. They r not necessary. We do not benefit as a species by them happnin in ne way. Sure as hell the whales do not! We shud b guardians of our world an protectors of all life within it save that which we NEED 2 survive and prosper as a species. Killin whales does nuthin 2 meet that end.

An 2 ansa ya question..no me not a veggie or a vegan..me eats meat.. an fish..sum. Has a balanced diet wich keeps me healthy. But wot me munches inta is bred for the purpose mostly, tho am fonda rabbit..cute lil beasties wich can b a pest an not jus 2 farmers.. an create imbalances in our countryside cos ther not enuff predators left 2 keep ther numbas down. Australians know all bout the lil buggas 2... white man introduced them ther afta havin bumped of mosta the native creatures wich mita help keep em down. An thats the crunch reely... we hav the knowledge to provide food domestically without, save in certain specific circumstances, 2 make the wildlife slaughter unnecessary. Whales r no exception. Wer the seas so crowded wiv whales that otha life forms wer suffrin an the natural balance was endangered..mayb then me wud support it..but it aint... an so their huntin an killin is simply an unnecessary and greedy act of politics an commercialism..

Our world don hav enuff of nature left as it is. Ther r more important issues than whales.. preservation of the rain forest, desertification an the pollution of our planet r but 3... but if we cant make the effort an succeed in a small isssue like whale protection in particul.. wot hope hav we of gettin close 2 solvin the much gr8er problems we as a species face???

Well now I understand our fundamental difference. I personally argue from a Libertarian viewpoint, that people should be able to do whatever they like unless there is a strong ethical argument against it. Our actions do not have to help others, we can do things just for ourselves if we so wish. All I ask is that one does not do anything to hurt another human, or anything so morally wrong that it MUST be prevented. I don't see either case here.

By all means, sign the petition, do whatever you can to follow your own personal beliefs, I wish you the best of luck. However without a reason to STOP someone doing something, I cannot morally take an action to directly limit his or her freedom, which is what this will do.

This is the last post I'm going to make in this topic, I see our fundamental beliefs about rights are so different that all we can have is an argument, not a discussion, and I don't really want that.

As I said, good luck.

Moto1

P.S: Oh, and that truck bearing down on the middle ground? I hope you realize that was you, with your violent reaction when I didn't agree with your point of view. Just saying...

[darkeyes]

Well now I understand our fundamental difference. I personally argue from a Libertarian viewpoint, that people should be able to do whatever they like unless there is a strong ethical argument against it. Our actions do not have to help others, we can do things just for ourselves if we so wish. All I ask is that one does not do anything to hurt another human, or anything so morally wrong that it MUST be prevented. I don't see either case here.

By all means, sign the petition, do whatever you can to follow your own personal beliefs, I wish you the best of luck. However without a reason to STOP someone doing something, I cannot morally take an action to directly limit his or her freedom, which is what this will do.

This is the last post I'm going to make in this topic, I see our fundamental beliefs about rights are so different that all we can have is an argument, not a discussion, and I don't really want that.

As I said, good luck.

Moto1

P.S: Oh, and that truck bearing down on the middle ground? I hope you realize that was you, with your violent reaction when I didn't agree with your point of view. Just saying...
tee hee.. hun...shud read me posts a lil more..me a pacifist an wudn hurt ya.. me has a tempa wich explodes sure..but wudn harmya... jus like me wudn harm a lil whalie.. wud jus bollok ya as me dus lotsa peeps wen me gets agitated...

Don wish me luk babes..wish the whalies luk as a bloody great whaler cums bearin down on em wiv all harpoon guns primed an ready 2 go...

On otha hand..Naggy (CuddlyKate) has pacifist tendencies..but don mind a quik lash out wen peeps annoy er.... so it quite poss she behind wheel of that lorry...:bigrin::tong:

[Bluebiyou]

Morality, it's quite simple really.
Just begin applying the golden rule... "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
You begin with your selfish self, then spread the wealth to those dearest around you. Then you spread the wealth farther and farther and farther.
Somewhere there's a practical limit of the golden rule. If I have to kill millions of bacteria by breathing and kill plants and animals to feed myself I should therefore allow or expediate myself to die, lest I sin and harm other life forms.
You've seen the bumper stickers; "save the planet, kill yourself".
Therein lies the challenge... to appraise meaning of life to all things including yourself and come up with some kind of scale of importance.
Politically, 1st will come the things humans love the most other than humans, dogs, cats, ferrets, mice....
Then dogmatically rule other importance; i.e. intelligence... potential for soul, etc. This sweeps in the whales, dolphins, porpoises, squids, etc. (The Spanish folk won't be too crazy about attributing higher qualities to common lunch item). It then accepts the terrible moral consequences of bovine, chicken, and fish slaughter (and the continuous inevitable economical squeeze of ethical treatment during their life).
I think... POOF!

(Descartes' revenge)

[dangerous_unicorn]

done but not sure if they will stop i hope they do as i love whales

[darkeyes]

done but not sure if they will stop i hope they do as i love whales

Wos almost stopped completely 1ce half a century ago..no reason wy it cant b dun gain....

[Alsodiver]

They should fire a harpoon up there asses and see how they like it. A holes, !!!!