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nyabn_webmaster
Dec 21, 2007, 7:11 PM
Some say findings inflated, others claim 'bi-phobia is alive and well'

by staff reporter Joshua Lynsen originally published in the Washington Blade (http://www.washingtonblade.com)on Friday, December 21, 2007

www.washingtonblade.com/2007/12-21/news/national/11768.cfm (http://www.washingtonblade.com/2007/12-21/news/national/11768.cfm)

A national poll showing that bisexuals account for half the number of people who identify as gay, lesbian or bisexual is drawing mixed reactions.

Many bisexual men and women told the Blade that the findings, part of a poll funded by Human Rights Campaign and controlled by City University of New York's Hunter College, are enlightening.

"I think it definitely holds some truths about the gay community that most members would rather ignore," said Nicole Kristal, co-author of "The Bisexual's Guide to the Universe."

"There are plenty of lesbians in the gay community who occasionally sleep with men and still call themselves lesbians and vice versa. People need to start being honest in their daily lives about their actual behaviors rather than hiding behind convenient black-and-white labels that breed acceptance from their gay and lesbian peers who often condemn bisexuality."

The poll of 768 people, conducted last month, shows in its adjusted final tally that 15.4 percent of respondents are bisexual men and 33.5 percent are bisexual women. Gay men accounted for 33.4 percent of the poll's respondents and lesbians accounted for 17.8 percent. The poll asked respondents to assign their own sexual orientation.

Amy Andre, a sexuality studies expert who helped write a bisexual health issues report this year for the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force, said the poll's findings are not without precedent.

The U.S. government's National Survey of Family Growth found in 2002 that 56 percent of men and women who identified as gay, lesbian or bisexual were bisexual.

"So the findings at Hunter come as no surprise to me," she said. "Neither do the reactions to the Hunter study. Bi-phobia is unfortunately alive and well in the LGBT community, as is ignorance about the lives of bisexual people within the community."

The poll attracted several critics, including gay author and commentator Andrew Sullivan, who suggested the poll was "rigged for PC purposes to inflate the number of bisexuals and lesbians."

Other critics said the poll erred and that bisexuals represent a small minority among those who are gay, lesbian or bisexual.

Many bisexuals, however, suggested that Sullivan maintains a narrow view.

"He surrounds himself with gay friends and is involved in social circles that are predominantly gay," said James Fenter, a 46-year-old bisexual man from Boston. "So he doesn't meet many bisexuals and then he just makes the extrapolation that since he doesn't know many bisexuals, they don't exist."

Some bisexuals told the Blade they tire of such attitudes, shared by gays and straights alike. Loraine Hutchins, a 59-year-old bisexual woman from Takoma Park, Md., said she has "often been made to feel that bisexuality is rare and inconsequential."

Wendy Curry, a 42-year-old bisexual woman from Weare, N.H., agreed.

"At times it seems we've wasted years trying to prove our existence," she said. "And why? The Andrew Sullivans of the world will never see us."


'In this together'
But many bisexuals said they were encouraged by the Hunter College poll, and noted it's now up to individual bisexuals to affirm the finding.

"When we don't identify ourselves, we only lend to the impression that we aren't even there," said Erynn Rowan Laurie, a 46-year-old bisexual woman from Everett, Wash. "We create our own invisibility."

She said the Hunter College poll, which "demonstrates we actually exist," could help bisexuals find new acceptance among their gay and lesbian peers.

And with that acceptance, said Mimi Hoang, a 30-year-old bisexual woman from Los Angeles, could come benefits for all.

"It's sad to me that gays and lesbians have such a hard time standing by their bi brothers and sisters," she said, "because we are really in this fight together, about having our love lives and families validated and respected, no matter what gender we love."


:flag1::2cents::flag1:


Remember that it is also good to let the world outside of the Blogosphere know how you feel. You can easily put in your Comments about the article by going to the actual article , scrolling to the botom and clicking on the space provided (http://www.washingtonblade.com/2007/12-21/news/national/11768.cfm).

Also do feel free to drop by Andrew Sullivan's column and mention your feeling on his statement that the poll was "rigged for PC purposes to inflate the number of bisexuals and lesbians (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/11/pc-hrc.html).".

And stop by Chris Crain's blog and tell him how you feel about his statements that "those self-identifying as part of the GLBT community are overwhelmingly male -- 65 to 70 percent -- and very few are bis (http://citizenchris.typepad.com/citizenchris/2007/12/once-more-into.html)exual"

this is x-posted from Bialoge: Taking Action not just Offense (http://bialogue.livejournal.com/)

DiamondDog
Dec 21, 2007, 8:13 PM
Good article! Our own poster from this board, Mimi was quoted in it!

Does anyone actually have a link to the actual poll/survey and the results that it shows?

I'm not surprised about Andrew Sullivan's opinion since he's biphobic and is the typical gay man that runs from one fad to the next changing his apperance constantly, he'd want to live in a "gay" world 24/7 if it was possible since he's so heterophobic and biphobic and now lesbian phobic, and he goes on about politics that not even all homosexual men and women agree with or want to be associated with.

If you've seen his picture 10-15 years ago he was NOT bald and had no facial hair at all. I guess he does that to hide his caved in/flat face from the side effects of his meds.

He even chastises out gay men who just happen to like consensual sex in public places, he's pro Catholic, pro Barebacking (this is how he became Poz/HIV+), and is the definition of being gay in that he's white/male/upper-middle class/husband/kid/expensive house/an armchair revolutionary.

He's driven by consumerism and the whole fake idealism and fake existence of a real gay culture or community when they don't exist at all, anymore than a real heterosexual culture/community do, and what's mistaken as being both real a gay culture and community is just the status quo and consumerism.

I'm not saying that it's bad for same gendered couples to have a husband/monogamous relationship or adopt kids and raise them as well as they can; but he doesn't realize that not everyone wants this, can attain it, wants to aspire towards being a white middle/upper class gay male driven by consumerism, or even wants to be associated with any of it.

Sullivan's whole holier than thou biphobic and heterophobic dogmatic ramblings get tiresome and so do his politics.

nyabn_webmaster
Dec 21, 2007, 10:12 PM
the links are in the copy of the article at Bialogue's Blog (click link at bottom or article)

we cannot directly bring the regular HTML code over here so we don't put all of the links back in since we'd have to go thru it all line by line

But just FYI the study wasn't about the prevalence of this or that group in the greater LGBT Community AND neither Andrew nor Chris' article was directly about that subject either

they both just felt it necessary to throw in some gratuitous nasty comments

someotherguy
Dec 24, 2007, 10:00 PM
I am a lesbian, but since I am also a man, it confuses people no end, so I just say I am bisexual. How can a lesbian have gay sex with a man, you ask? Just watch me. It has always seemed highly suspect to me that people are either this or that. I think people tend to do what they have a mind to, and then work out the explanation later as needed. You could argue that a man who likes sex with women is straight, not a lesbian, and you would have a point but then you would have to explain my haircut.

The theory I like is that sex feels good. Sex feels good so if people could, they would do it a lot. The problem with people doing it a lot is that nothing much else would ever get done, and so for the sake of productivity restrictions are placed on sex. There are rules making sex harder to just do. Well, you know how rules are. they are like locusts; where there is one there is a swarm. All kinds of other rules follow and sex is the most regulated human activity going. People grown up hearing seventeen and two different proscriptions for sexual behavior, and get confused, and decide to be sneaky and do what ever the hell they want anyway. If sex wasn't smarter than society we would have stopped reproducing way back when movable type made rules ubiquitous.

Any poll that registers the opinions of the majority of people is a poll expressing the views of idiots. You know you agree, because polls show that the majority of people regard everyone else as idiots. That's another thing that proves I'm a lesbian: I can back up my claims with imaginary data.

nyabn_webmaster
Dec 26, 2007, 5:03 PM
well having now read your reply three or four times i think i'm beginning to understand it - don't know if that is a good or bad thing! LOL :bigrin:

diB4u
Dec 26, 2007, 5:11 PM
I am a lesbian, but since I am also a man, it confuses people no end, so I just say I am bisexual. How can a lesbian have gay sex with a man, you ask? Just watch me. It has always seemed highly suspect to me that people are either this or that. I think people tend to do what they have a mind to, and then work out the explanation later as needed. You could argue that a man who likes sex with women is straight, not a lesbian, and you would have a point but then you would have to explain my haircut.

The theory I like is that sex feels good. Sex feels good so if people could, they would do it a lot. The problem with people doing it a lot is that nothing much else would ever get done, and so for the sake of productivity restrictions are placed on sex. There are rules making sex harder to just do. Well, you know how rules are. they are like locusts; where there is one there is a swarm. All kinds of other rules follow and sex is the most regulated human activity going. People grown up hearing seventeen and two different proscriptions for sexual behavior, and get confused, and decide to be sneaky and do what ever the hell they want anyway. If sex wasn't smarter than society we would have stopped reproducing way back when movable type made rules ubiquitous.

Any poll that registers the opinions of the majority of people is a poll expressing the views of idiots. You know you agree, because polls show that the majority of people regard everyone else as idiots. That's another thing that proves I'm a lesbian: I can back up my claims with imaginary data.



No far from it, I am a woman but gender fluid, pansexual, but bicurious. So its hard to define my sexual taste, but it does get confusing.. I intentify with gay men, and butch lesbians... That makes me, hmmm , an intersting character and a good person to know.

LOL imaginary data, no not at all.. A person can be pansgender, and be characteristically or mentally swing towards lesbian women. Quite recently its true, I started to think like a gay man. Logic dictates that I cant be a gay man. I can be a trasnman who is gay.

One thing that I've learned on my quest is that sexuality can change in a persons life. A person can be 'straight' as a teenager, 'gay' by the time they're 35 and 'bisexual' by the time they're 55.

No ones journey is better than someone elses. As long as a person gets to their destination which is important.

For me sexuality and gender is so mixed up sometimes i wonder Who I am... :bigrin:

nyabn_webmaster
Dec 26, 2007, 5:20 PM
That makes me, hmmm , an intersting character and a good person to know.:

:2cents: Now THAT is a true statement right there . . . and a lovely, positive way to look at life too.

diB4u
Dec 26, 2007, 7:32 PM
:2cents: Now THAT is a true statement right there . . . and a lovely, positive way to look at life too.



Aww thanks, because I could be so obessed in with trying to fit into one community or the other, but I am who I am... Love me or hate me, but know one thing, I change my gender and sexuality all time time.

Catch me on a bad day and I'm just a wicked witch lol.

If a person just likes me for me then I say thanks. If the person doesnt like me I say fair enough have a good day!

nyabn_webmaster
Dec 26, 2007, 7:43 PM
I could be so obessed in with trying to fit into one community or the other, but I am who I am

see IMHO this is the good thing about declaring oneself bisexual, you only have to come out once and you are done with it for the rest of your life.

Date a man? Bisexual!
Date a woman? Bisexual!
Date a man and a woman? Bisexual!
Date a man who used to identify as a woman? Still Bisexual!

:bibounce:

diB4u
Dec 26, 2007, 7:49 PM
see IMHO this is the good thing about declaring oneself bisexual, you only have to come out once and you are done with it for the rest of your life.

Date a man? Bisexual!
Date a woman? Bisexual!
Date a man and a woman? Bisexual!
Date a man who used to identify as a woman? Still Bisexual!

:bibounce:


Ahh true, but im not totally bisexual, I am pansexual, pangender, bicurious... Sometimes the lines between pansexual and pangender merge into one.

nyabn_webmaster
Dec 26, 2007, 7:55 PM
Ahh true, but im not totally bisexual, I am pansexual, pangender, bicurious... Sometimes the lines between pansexual and pangender merge into one.

other than the term bisexual came in to vogue at a time in western culture when there was was a more primitive understanding of gender (hence "bi" = 2) I've never really understood the difference myself

I have always taken bisexual to simply denote that I do not consider gender when finding someone attractive

diB4u
Dec 26, 2007, 7:59 PM
other than the term bisexual came in to vogue at a time in western culture when there was was a more primitive understanding of gender (hence "bi" = 2) I've never really understood the difference myself

I have always taken bisexual to simply denote that I do not consider gender when finding someone attractive

Ahh true but not all bisexuals find transmen or transwomen attractive.That is what a pansexual person is. I love men and like women and find some transwomen very hot and transmen wow hotter still lol..

nyabn_webmaster
Dec 26, 2007, 8:08 PM
Ahh true but not all bisexuals find transmen or transwomen attractive.

really? how odd (well to me at least), r u sure?

diB4u
Dec 26, 2007, 8:13 PM
really? how odd (well to me at least), r u sure?


LOL Very sure, and no its not odd lol... That is the difference between bisexual and pansexual. Bisexual is clearly sexually attraction between two sexual orientation, pansexuality is including bisexuality, transexuals.


The terms "pansexual" and "bisexual" are not mutually exclusive terms, but rather pansexual is a way of defining bisexuality without necessarily denying the possibility of interest in genders and sexes such as those identifying as transgender or "genderfuck' (taken from Wikipedia)

BiphobiaFighter
Dec 27, 2007, 2:35 AM
Reading the comments in the link to that article were what motivated me to join because this looks like a good site for me to express myself and hopefully put these annoyances into perspective. Ugh, some of those comments were really frustrating.

The comments found in the link were frustrating, that is, not in this thread. :bigrin:

DiamondDog
Dec 27, 2007, 2:47 AM
Ahh true but not all bisexuals find transmen or transwomen attractive.That is what a pansexual person is. I love men and like women and find some transwomen very hot and transmen wow hotter still lol..

That's very true. I post at another site that has a bisexual section and someone asked if the bisexual men there would have sex with someone trans or even intersex and 99% of the people there said no.

BiphobiaFighter
Dec 27, 2007, 3:00 AM
I'm pansexual but a lot of people with pansexual orientations identify as bi (or gay/lesbian, straight, something else, or nothing) because they don't know about the pansexual label or consider themselves bisexual since it's simpler to tell people that they're bi than pan.

I have a bi identity and immediately think of myself as bisexual but when I think about it for a moment I remember than my orientation is pansexual...I wonder if that happens to anyone else. :)

diB4u
Dec 27, 2007, 5:37 PM
I'm pansexual but a lot of people with pansexual orientations identify as bi (or gay/lesbian, straight, something else, or nothing) because they don't know about the pansexual label or consider themselves bisexual since it's simpler to tell people that they're bi than pan.

I have a bi identity and immediately think of myself as bisexual but when I think about it for a moment I remember than my orientation is pansexual...I wonder if that happens to anyone else. :)



See I dont know, I love men.. All sorts of men, I like women too but only certain types of women. So I think I shall stick to bicurious for now.

Yes for me all I tell people that are interest is roughly what it is.

We shift from one extreme to another, and only when we find a happy medium- everyone is different- then we and our partners can lead a full and happy life.