Prenuptial Agreements

[Toad82]

If your boyfriend of girlfriend asked you to marry them, but they wanted a Prenuptial Agreement before hand would you sign? Is it a some what of an insult to ask someone you hopefully love to sign such a paper? I have arguments in my head for both sides. Is there anyone with an argument of why it is a good or bad idea? Are there any persons on the site with one that has had a good or bad experience? For those that don’t know what a pre nup is:


What is a Prenuptial Agreement?
A prenuptial agreement, also known as an ante-nuptial agreement, is a contract entered into before marriage where a couple specifies how they will divide their property, debts, income and expenses should the marriage dissolve.

Common Features of a Prenuptial Agreement
Prenuptial agreements often provide for and allow both spouses:
To protect his or her own separate property.
To protect himself or herself from the other spouse's debt.
To determine the level of support (alimony) owed to a spouse both in divorce and death.
Are Prenuptial Agreements Enforceable?
Prenuptial agreements are generally enforceable. Although the laws regulating prenuptials vary from state to state, common rules are:

Marriage
They are only enforceable if it is fair at the time of enforcement.
Some states require certified copies of your marriage certificate.
Divorce
You can have the judge handling your divorce make a formal order to restore you former name.
No agreement can promote divorce.
They must be in writing.
They cannot include child support responsibilities.
Attorney representation is usually required for both parties.

Do I Need an Attorney to Draft a Prenuptial Agreement?
Although you and your spouse can reach an agreement by yourselves as to the general terms of the prenuptial agreement, in most situations two lawyers (representation for each spouse) are required by law in order to finalize the agreement. Speaking with the proper attorney will help you understand your rights and protect your interests.

Thank you for any responses

RJ:lokai:

[Skater Boy]

In theory, you should love someone unconditionally (within reason) if you are willing to marry them. And you should go to whatever lengths it might take to make sure that both parties really do love eachother in the appropriate way before tying the knot. However, I can understand that if an individual is particularly financially advantaged (and by that I mean extraordinarily so) that some degree of caution might be needed to prevent them becoming a target for those who are more unscrupulous. That said, if you're willing to marry a person, you should probably already know their soul intimately enough to judge their intentions.

So... no... I probably wouldn't sign one, under ordinary circumstances.

[kitten]

I understand the idea behind an agreement but a partnership and marriage is a relationship of compromise an trust. The statement that the agreement is only binding if it is fair at the time of use makes me think it would be a moot point to sign one anyway.
I would not sign one. It would say to me that the agreement of what is yours and what is mine when and if we split is more important than our agreement to stay together til death do us part and all that goes with that.

Kitten

P.S. I have been married for 26 years...with lots of commitment and compromise. I have a saying and don't remember who said it - "A marriage is not a 50/50 situation, it is 100/100.

[DiamondDog]

Yes I'd sign it and I'd expect them to sign it too.

[brunette]

If my husband had wanted a prenup before we got married, I would have signed it. If he had assets that he wanted protected, I would have respected his wishes (within reason).

Neither of us had much of anything when we got married, so it didn't seem necessary. Oddly enough, we have even less now. :tongue:

If, in the future, we are no longer married, and I were to want re-marry, for my protection, I would probably get a prenup to protect my husband and myself from any previous or future debt. My step-mom ran up credit card bills for her first husband, and then ran off with my dad and hasn't (to my knowledge) payed any of the 100,000$ she spent.

[The Barefoot Contess]

Yes, I'd sign it. I think it is wonderful to think that love lasts forever, and that we know people and trust them and they will no betray us, but I think it is naive to not consider that reality is many times not so rose-colored and it is better to be ready in case things don't turn out the way we expect. It might not be so "romantic", true, but I don't think a prenuptial agreement means you don't trust the other person, it means that you want to be financially secure no matter what. Best case scenario, you will not have to use the agreement; worst case, you will maintain your economic security.
Maybe this is just me and my own issues, but I would not be offended at all of someone told me he or she wanted to sign a prenuptial agreement. I don't take those things personally: I have seen enough betrayals in my life, from those whom you least expect it, to prefer to be on the safe side, even at the expense of romanticism.

[ambi53mm]

It would depend on the contents of the agreement. I don't believe most people go into a marriage with divorce on their minds... Divorce Lawyers can be treacherous, sometimes even going against the opposing spouses wishes.
I've never signed or considered signing such an agreement nor would I consider marrying someone who insisted on an agreement....but sometimes...it's a cruel world. I wouldn't be insulted...I'd be gone.

Ambi:)

[Skater Boy]

My step-mom ran up credit card bills for her first husband, and then ran off with my dad and hasn't (to my knowledge) payed any of the 100,000$ she spent.

Woah! The woman knows how to spend!!! Not to mention the fact that your dad had a $100,000 credit limit. Sheesh.

I see what Contessa is saying. It can't hurt to be careful, and as long as both partners see it the same way (as a precaution) then it probably wouldn't do any harm.

But its the love between the people that is the important thing, not the money IMO.

[diB4u]

Well now that depends, if i had won or earned a large sum of money, its mine... Thats it... If i married someone and got divorced hello still mine lol...

Love or no love. Hell yeah i'd sign it...

[12voltman59]

Meaningful Pre-Nups really are best for those who bring in lots of wealth and assets to the marriage--or when someone is remarrying later in life and maybe one of the parties has a family business---and they want their kids or some such to get those assets and not the children and relatives of the new spouse.
Obviously if you are someone like Paul McCartney will at least hundreds of millions if not more at stake--it seems he did not have one and he sure as hell needed one----that woman he married is some piece of work apparently.

[bigirl_inwv]

I think there is nothing wrong with it. You can love someone with all your heart and think you know them inside and out...yet still be completely wrong. People can be deceptive. I find nothing wrong with protecting yourself for things that may possibly happen. Sort of akin to putting insurance on your house/car.

[Doggie_Wood]

If your boyfriend of girlfriend asked you to marry them, but they wanted a Prenuptial Agreement before hand would you sign?
RJ:lokai:

I have neverhad to sign one because any of the shit I had in past, no one wanted but me anyway. No house ownershipor real property, just bills. Hell, even I didn't want those and couldn't give 'em away.
But as time goes on and I became a productive member of society, my accumulation of "stuff" began to grow (including my vast array of junk).
My last marriage ended in divorce. I basically gave her all the nice furniture we had (solid oak dining room suit including china cabinet w/hutch, Big screen TV, S&F Bedroom suit, and the list goes on) and it was pretty amicable. However, after a $5000 patoff, I kept the house and the Harley. In the house was a bed, a TV shelf and TV [which I bought afterwards] and a chair to sit in to watch the TV. And of coarse, the office furniture and computers.
Now I have even more "stuff" and junk, but I also have aquired the responsibility of "looking after" the estate of my deceased father, an aging mother and a handicapped older sibling.

And as ambi53mm states below.....


It would depend on the contents of the agreement ......
Divorce Lawyers can be treacherous, sometimes even going against the opposing spouses wishes........
Ambi:)

Divorce Lawyers are smooth talkers and can paint a very bleek future for you if you don't heed the advise they present you with. 'You need ALL that you can bleed out of the spouse' type of thing. The more YOU get - the more HE/SHE gets.

So - would I have a pre-nup drawn up and request it be signed to exclude her from any proceeds obtained prior to the marriage. You better believe it!
An attorney would have to be involved due to the fact that Texas is a 'Community Property' state. In being that any and all assests, bebts, property (real or otherwise) is held to joint custody of the married partners.

There are a lot of free loading, back stabing Gold Diggers (both male and female) out there and some of them are damn good actors. Knowing just the right thing to say and when to say it to get your undivided attention, emotions and the perverbial 'ring in the nose' to get you to follow their every whim.

Don't get me wrong - most peeps out there are ginuinlly good - but remember - self preservation is an inbred instinct for most.
:2cents:
:doggie:

[biupstateny]

Hell yea, we just filled one with my lawyer a week before christmas & it was both our ideas . I will have her explain it better .:bigrin:

[jeancarleo]

I'm married but have been separated from wife since 2003. We had no problems, I let her have all her things and I kept my things when we separated. Will be signing the divorce this year on February 14. Exactly 5 years since we got married.

If I do marry in the future first I would sign and have her/him sign. Lol but can you marry a guy and a girl at the same time? I've just seen that in a movie and how would this affect that?:three:

[Bluebiyou]

I don't think I'd sign one.
Nothing is absolute, except perhaps love.
Every relationship I've ever had is temporary.
Yeah, If you're 'jumping financial classes' to marry, you might consider.

[biupstateny]

oh dosen't this thread just hit the nail on the head!!! YES I would sign, and YES I did just sign one 2 weeks ago....we are getting married Feb. 29th at the cabin where we had our first date!!! Anyway...he was married once before..good job, kids....and she took him for everything he had...401K, half the house...so on and so on. So I feel that if someone is in better financial standing then the other, then that person is better off getting a pre-nump to cover their own asses. Cause if your not covered and he or she decided that after five years of marriage they are not happy, your gonna pay....even if they say they "woulden't do something like that". I've seen too many people get hurt financially because the other...usually a woman...takes the man for everything because she came into the marriage with nothing. Our pre-nump states that everything we buy AFTER we are married is split. But otherwise his property is his, and his home...and I just cant touch it...but I am covered in the long run if anything happens...such as death. Eventhough It was my idea for the pre-nump, it diden't change the way we felt for each other. We still have the same trust and love for each other, if not more day for day!!! My honest opinion, because of what I've seen women do, and I am a womam....Is that men should have some sort of contract such as a pre-nump going into a marriage in this day and age. I think people look at a pre-nump for all the wrong reasons, and sterotype it as not trusting the other...well, your wrong. If you had a million dollars woulden't you want to protect it? Or would you marry someone then two years down the road get a divorce and she takes half....umm....Id cover my ass!!!!!

[biupstateny]

It would depend on the contents of the agreement. I don't believe most people go into a marriage with divorce on their minds... Divorce Lawyers can be treacherous, sometimes even going against the opposing spouses wishes.
I've never signed or considered signing such an agreement nor would I consider marrying someone who insisted on an agreement....but sometimes...it's a cruel world. I wouldn't be insulted...I'd be gone.

Ambi:)

Just up and leave as though you did not share a life with the other person? Although it is your opinion, if it made your spouse happy and gave him a safe feeling that you would be willing to do this for him, and you had a great realtionship...your saying you would just up and leave becasue he wanted to protect himself? Im sorry, but people that cant take others feelings into consideration, espically when it is in concern of what belongs to them in the first place, that is just plain selfish. Put the shoe on the other foot....people need to understand what a prenump is before you jump to conclusions....

[biupstateny]

I understand the idea behind an agreement but a partnership and marriage is a relationship of compromise an trust. The statement that the agreement is only binding if it is fair at the time of use makes me think it would be a moot point to sign one anyway.
I would not sign one. It would say to me that the agreement of what is yours and what is mine when and if we split is more important than our agreement to stay together til death do us part and all that goes with that.

Kitten

P.S. I have been married for 26 years...with lots of commitment and compromise. I have a saying and don't remember who said it - "A marriage is not a 50/50 situation, it is 100/100.

If the other person is in better financial standing before marriage, then what is his IS important and he should take proper percautions to cover himself so all of his hard work and HIS earnings are not taken away from him by someone that dosen't deserve it!!!! I firmly beleive , that when two people get divorced they should go their seperate ways, but it never happens...A pre-nump does state that what is yours and this is mine, but people don't seem to understand that during the marriage, it is ours. If the marriage dissolves, it goes back to yours and mine. My pre-nump states that his property cannot be touched by me or his home if we get divorced. Why should I go after it? Why shoulden't he protect himself? Where do I have the right to call it mine when he allowed me to live with him in the home he bought with his money?

[biupstateny]

Yes, I'd sign it. I think it is wonderful to think that love lasts forever, and that we know people and trust them and they will no betray us, but I think it is naive to not consider that reality is many times not so rose-colored and it is better to be ready in case things don't turn out the way we expect. It might not be so "romantic", true, but I don't think a prenuptial agreement means you don't trust the other person, it means that you want to be financially secure no matter what. Best case scenario, you will not have to use the agreement; worst case, you will maintain your economic security.
Maybe this is just me and my own issues, but I would not be offended at all of someone told me he or she wanted to sign a prenuptial agreement. I don't take those things personally: I have seen enough betrayals in my life, from those whom you least expect it, to prefer to be on the safe side, even at the expense of romanticism.


Well said!!! Thank you!!!!

[Toad82]

To follow up on some of my thinking; doesn’t it show that if one asked and the other wouldn’t sign that they are out for something? What are they losing besides the possibility of money and material things. Does it not, in a way prove that they don’t love you the way they should.

On the other hand does it not show that by asking, that you have no to little trust in you partner. I bring up this topic for a lot of reasons. But for the most part I am just trying to find and understand other peoples thinking about this, while trying to protect someone I care greatly for. When I was younger I heard a quote that the gist was;

No self respecting man would marry without a pre nup and no self respecting woman would sign one.

Although I don’t agree with it completely, it does make some since to me. I am curious what others think of it. Once again thanks for the replies.

RJ:lokai:

[The Barefoot Contess]

No self respecting man would marry without a pre nup and no self respecting woman would sign one.



What is the rationale behind this? That women are after money and men have the right to protect themselves, but if is the woman who has the money and she exercises the same right she loses her worth as a woman? Or maybe it is that for a man to be the breadwinner and to secure his status is ok, but women have to rely on men for their stability and if they want to be independent they are despised?

Pretty sexist, I'd say.

[ambi53mm]

Just up and leave as though you did not share a life with the other person? Although it is your opinion, if it made your spouse happy and gave him a safe feeling that you would be willing to do this for him, and you had a great realtionship...your saying you would just up and leave becasue he wanted to protect himself? Im sorry, but people that cant take others feelings into consideration, espically when it is in concern of what belongs to them in the first place, that is just plain selfish. Put the shoe on the other foot....people need to understand what a prenump is before you jump to conclusions....

I think I comprehend what a prenup is…do you really comprehend what a marriage is? You make a judgment about my opinions as being selfish but you have no concept of who, why, or how someone would come to such an opinion. I’m sorry but your concepts and ideals about marriage and relationships are so warped and absurd it would not be worth my time LOL to try to make you understand. Think what you like. I’d rather be considered selfish than just out and out ignorant. I'm not the only one guilty of "jumping to conclusions" huh?

Ambi

[Toad82]

What is the rationale behind this? That women are after money and men have the right to protect themselves, but if is the woman who has the money and she exercises the same right she loses her worth as a woman? Or maybe it is that for a man to be the breadwinner and to secure his status is ok, but women have to rely on men for their stability and if they want to be independent they are despised?

Pretty sexist, I'd say.

I am not certain, but I believe that quote was from Donald Trump. Personally I think the man is a dip shit, but he does have some good quotes. As for being sexist, I believe in context he was making fun of himself right after a divorce where he lost a lot and his ex got quite a bit. I almost take it as he was complementing her for being smarter. As for an overall out of context quote, I don’t believe most people feel the need to include all genders as they talk. He is a man, so he talks as from a males prospective.

Now with that all said, I feel I need another shower because even somewhat defending Trump makes me feel dirty.

RJ:lokai:

[biupstateny]

What is the rationale behind this? That women are after money and men have the right to protect themselves, but if is the woman who has the money and she exercises the same right she loses her worth as a woman? Or maybe it is that for a man to be the breadwinner and to secure his status is ok, but women have to rely on men for their stability and if they want to be independent they are despised?

Pretty sexist, I'd say.

Women shoulden't complain at all about being secure....they wanted their rights...and got them !!!!!! We are all equal now, are we not? Both men and women should protect themselves no matter what the circumstances. And yes, from experiance of seeing the just, women are out only for money....most of the time, or they just want the security a man can give them. The man should be the breadwinner. But then again I don't beleive in womans rights (and i am a woman) so I see things in a totally different light then others!!!

[biupstateny]

I think I comprehend what a prenup is…do you really comprehend what a marriage is? You make a judgment about my opinions as being selfish but you have no concept of who, why, or how someone would come to such an opinion. I’m sorry but your concepts and ideals about marriage and relationships are so warped and absurd it would not be worth my time LOL to try to make you understand. Think what you like. I’d rather be considered selfish than just out and out ignorant. I'm not the only one guilty of "jumping to conclusions" huh?

Ambi

Its too bad that ignorance has nothing to do with it. My marriage will be perfect as my realtionship with my bf has been for the past three years. He deserves to have the security of knowing that "if" for some reason our marriage fails in the future, he will not be screwed by me like his ex-WIFE did to him. Any man deserves the knowledge of security if they are finacially better off then the other. Does this mean he loves me less? NO Does this mean he dosen't trust me...NO. Does this mean I have no right to what he worked so hard for and belongs to him..such as his home, 401k, property...absolutely!!! NO woman should be intitled to what a man has coming into a marriage. I beleive men and women should think twice in this day and age about sharing with each other....because someone will get screwed in the long run. LOL I comprehend what a marriage is, and to me its two people that love each other dearly and chose to spend the rest of their lives together such as myself and my bf. Marriage consists of a trust and bond between two people that cannot be broken, and the ability to share life no matter what it brings. A pre-nump does not stop how you feel about marriage, and IF it does, then I would say that a person is selfish to not want the other to be happy. And please...LOL....enlighten me and make me understand why I am so warped and absurd....

[biupstateny]

I think I comprehend what a prenup is…do you really comprehend what a marriage is? You make a judgment about my opinions as being selfish but you have no concept of who, why, or how someone would come to such an opinion. I’m sorry but your concepts and ideals about marriage and relationships are so warped and absurd it would not be worth my time LOL to try to make you understand. Think what you like. I’d rather be considered selfish than just out and out ignorant. I'm not the only one guilty of "jumping to conclusions" huh?

Ambi


You took the jumping to conclusions the wrong way too.... it said..." >people< should understand what a pre-nump is before you jump to conclusions...." lol...sorry if you felt attacked for some reason...but im just absurd I guess !!!!

[ambi53mm]

Its too bad that ignorance has nothing to do with it. My marriage will be perfect as my realtionship with my bf has been for the past three years. He deserves to have the security of knowing that "if" for some reason our marriage fails in the future, he will not be screwed by me like his ex-WIFE did to him. Any man deserves the knowledge of security if they are finacially better off then the other. Does this mean he loves me less? NO Does this mean he dosen't trust me...NO. Does this mean I have no right to what he worked so hard for and belongs to him..such as his home, 401k, property...absolutely!!! NO woman should be intitled to what a man has coming into a marriage. I beleive men and women should think twice in this day and age about sharing with each other....because someone will get screwed in the long run. LOL I comprehend what a marriage is, and to me its two people that love each other dearly and chose to spend the rest of their lives together such as myself and my bf. Marriage consists of a trust and bond between two people that cannot be broken, and the ability to share life no matter what it brings. A pre-nump does not stop how you feel about marriage, and IF it does, then I would say that a person is selfish to not want the other to be happy. And please...LOL....enlighten me and make me understand why I am so warped and absurd....

Just to clarify perhaps a misconception, I am the male half of a happily married bicouple...and in regard to all you've said, LOL all I can say is "Good Girl!" ;) He is indeed a very lucky man.

Safe Journey
Ambi:)

[biupstateny]

Just to clarify perhaps a misconception, I am the male half of a happily married bicouple...and in regard to all you've said, LOL all I can say is "Good Girl!" ;) He is indeed a very lucky man.

Safe Journey
Ambi:)

sarcasim continues only because you cannot explain yourself??

[The Barefoot Contess]

The man should be the breadwinner. But then again I don't beleive in womans rights (and i am a woman) so I see things in a totally different light then others!!!

Sorry, but I really have to ask: are you serious?

[Skater Boy]

Sorry, but I really have to ask: are you serious?

Goodness gracious, Contessa... you don't actually think that WOMEN deserve RIGHTS do you??! :confused:

And are you seriously challenging the well-established notion that its MEN who are rightfully the breadwinners??! :confused:

Well... whatever next??! :eek:

[Doggie_Wood]

If you must - just remember -

Flame the idea - but not the person :flag4:

:2cents:

[biupstateny]

Sorry, but I really have to ask: are you serious?


Have been all my life. My mother taught me to be this way....don't get me wrong, women deserve what they get if for the right reasons, but most of the time its not...sad to say. I've seen women manipulate men for money, jobs, security, self worth, and take control of the court systems. Men are just as capable if not more capable of taking care of themselves, their children, and a family. Yes I beleive that in this day and time that two people have to work, but it is the mans responsibility to be the main breadwinner. If it wernt for women being so damn "independent"...maybe men today would know what the words romance still mean and they would still know how to open a door for a lady and pull out her chair and gracefully touch the small of her back to lead her in the door....Now a days men don't know if they will get yelled at for this stuff or if its what the woman wants. And god for bid you touch a woman on a date she'll probably get you for sexual harrasment. I am the way I am, and have my beleifs just as everyone else, and opinions. Like it or not. I have made it through my adult life very respected by men, and able to talk to men on their level without them feeling "threatned" because I am a woman. Some men today are threatned by women, because they are trying to take the "mans" place.

[The Barefoot Contess]

Goodness gracious, Contessa... you don't actually think that WOMEN deserve RIGHTS do you??! :confused:

And are you seriously challenging the well-established notion that its MEN who are rightfully the breadwinners??! :confused:

Well... whatever next??! :eek:

This proud feminist humbly promises to mend her sinful ways, and hopes her master will find forgiveness for her heinous crimes.

[biupstateny]

This proud feminist humbly promises to mend her sinful ways, and hopes her master will find forgiveness for her heinous crimes.

more sarcasim insted of just writing out what you really think. You will be forgiven in time...but not for sarcasim!

[The Barefoot Contess]

more sarcasim insted of just writing out what you really think. You will be forgiven in time...but not for sarcasim!

True, sarcasm just gets in the way, doesn't it? I do have however, a question about your non-sarcastic statement: is it god who will forgive me, or a man? Or maybe you are saying that sarcasm will be my eternal damnation? I am confused. How ironic that you knew exactly what I meant with my sarcasm and I have no clue what you are talking about with all your straightforwardness. With all due respect, of course ;)

[Skater Boy]

more sarcasim insted of just writing out what you really think. You will be forgiven in time...but not for sarcasim!

Not to put words into the lovely Contessa's mouth, but I think she was querying your statement that you didn't believe in "women's rights" and your assertion that men should be the "breadwinners".

I think most of us live in a society where the above beliefs are somewhat... "outdated".

However, it did occur to me that when you said that you didn't believe in women's rights, that you might have actually meant "Feminism for its own sake", which, IMHO, might have been a more reasonable thing to say.

As for men being the breadwinners... well, this belief is still quite commonly held amongst some. But it is also quite questionable, given the current social climate of Western Society.

Were you to actually believe that men deserve SUPERIOR rights (to women), and unquestionable financial dominance, then obviously that might be something that some women would object to.

That said, if you don't wish to fully utilize the rights that you deserve, then I guess thats your choice to make...

:2cents:

[biupstateny]

True, sarcasm just gets in the way, doesn't it? I do have however, a question about your non-sarcastic statement: is it god who will forgive me, or a man? Or maybe you are saying that sarcasm will be my eternal damnation? I am confused. How ironic that you knew exactly what I meant with my sarcasm and I have no clue what you are talking about with all your straightforwardness. With all due respect, of course ;)

It did not mean anything but to respond to your sarcism. Take it as you must!!!! Im sorry if your easily on defense and confused!!! How could my straightforwardness be confusing? Its an opinion, and i would like to hear others...isn't that what threads are for!! I have NO shame for who I am! Kudos with all due respect!!! :rolleyes:

[biupstateny]

Not to put words into the lovely Contessa's mouth, but I think she was querying your statement that you didn't believe in "women's rights" and your assertion that men should be the "breadwinners".

I think most of us live in a society where the above beliefs are somewhat... "outdated".

However, it did occur to me that when you said that you didn't believe in women's rights, that you might have actually meant "Feminism for its own sake", which, IMHO, might have been a more reasonable thing to say.

As for men being the breadwinners... well, this belief is still quite commonly held amongst some. But it is also quite questionable, given the current social climate of Western Society.

Were you to actually believe that men deserve SUPERIOR rights (to women), and unquestionable financial dominance, then obviously that might be something that some women would object to.

That said, if you don't wish to fully utilize the rights that you deserve, then I guess thats your choice to make...

:2cents:

I would rather the person I quote to comment rather then have it come from someone else, thx!
No one is SUPERIOR to the other. There are aspects in life were women take too much advantage of the system, men, and everything in general. And I fully utilize the rights I am entitled to, but never in any way would I take advantage of them, as a majority of woman would do in cases such as divorce, family matters concerning children, jobs, wages...

[Fresia]

Bump it up!

[tenni]

I think that if you have assets that you have singularly put sweat and tears to acquire and your partner has few assets that it would be wise to have a pre nup. If you are both without any main assets like owning property then it may not matter to you.