PDA

View Full Version : looking for some insight part 2



biazcouple
Jan 10, 2008, 4:06 AM
I must say I was suprized by the number of responses my last post recieved.
Many of the responses took the words out of my mouth literally, some unfortunately so. As some of the responders noted that there may be more to this story than meets the eye. I am affraid that there is. When it comes to short comings, I have far more than my wife. I don't express my fellings very well. I have become insecure in our relationship. My unhappiness in my job also has got me down. Financial issues, well we have financial issues in spades. Our oldest daughter is practicing at being a teenager. And my wife is not very happy in her job at the moment either. A very dear freind of ours is in the hospital battling pancratic cancer. And I when Shelly told me that she thiought she was gay, we argued and fought and cried, till we where emotionally and physicaly exhuasted. I was so angry and hurt I wanted to kill, so attempted to end my life. It happened in an instant, I forgot all the good in my life. I woke up in the hospital 4 days later. I have since sought professional help.

In response to the people kind enough to respond to my original post.

My wife and I did have ground rules and boundries, and yes there was even a "veto" rule that we had agreed to as well when we first embarked on our bisexual journey together. Our relationship was strong and we went into this with, we thought eye's wide open. We considered ourselves swinger's. We have played alone in the past but our experiences together were so much better. At least for me. When I would be with a man when Shelly was not participating, I felt... well I felt off somehow and I did not enjoy it as much as I did when she was there. We have shared men and women, much to our enjoyment. I think things began to change when she took a job. She was working nights and my job was a day shift. Men would come on to her all the time. Sometimes she would flirt back, but mostly she spoke of how she did not like the way these men would look at her. I always trusted her though. There was one man she met in that time that she did like. I was aware of this too, since she had told me about him.

I was ok with her attraction to him, she had always allowed me the same freedom too, we spoke openly of such things. One day I got home from work and my wife met me at the door, she took my hand and practically dragged me into the bedroom where she was all over me, we made love passionately untill we where spent.
Later that week Shelly said she needed to talk to me, it was important. She began speaking of the person and the feelings that she was having, again I was fine with it. I pulled her close and whispered in her ear, Honey if you want to s**k his c**k than go ahead its ok.
She said that she already had, she told me how it started the story was pretty hot actually, until it became clear that it had happend 4 days prior, and that was the day she was all over me. I was not happy about not meeting him first but more so about the delay in being told. As the next few weeks unfolded I became aware that there was more to this relationship than she was telling me. There was constant emails and phone calls. One evening I was working on some guitar tableture's and I accidentally clicked paste instead of copy. This long flowing peotic almost erotic love letter appeared from her to him. I confronted her with it, I said this is f**ked up, she explained, it is just the way she writes (there is a lot truth in that statement). Then you are leading him on and that is just cruel I told her.
She told me that they never did anything other than what happend in the initial encounter, I believed her, I still do. They drifted apart and he turned out not to be as great as she had first thought. We I thought had got thruogh it. We still had open communication, we still had our passion and our freindship. We had not been "swinging" for about 6 months before this episode for lack of a better word, and this episode was a little over a year ago. Shelly and I met Lisa in late August, we all became freinds, I knew she was gay. Shelly did not catch that at first. Shelly began to help Lisa with some issues she was dealing with. (12 step stuff). Both my wife and I have been clean and sober over 13 years. We have developed a relationship based on honesty, and spirituality, one day at a time. and until now I thought that it was working well.

Lisa started spending more time at my house, her and Shelly had sex a few times. I did not participate in anyway. Lisa was not comfortable with anything like that. I respected her boundries and I wanted Shelly to do what she wanted. Shelly and I would make love after Lisa would leave.
She began to come over very early in the morning, just before I was leaving for work. As I would leave I would go to kiss Shelly goodbye, and I was reduced to a simple peck on the lips. I tld her I did not like that. When it happened again, I was reduced to an old lady kiss, she placed her cheeck against mine and made the mmmwwwaa sound. I was pissed. The kids had not left for school yet so I did not feel like we could discuss it then and there.
when I got home that day is when I found out that Lisa wasn't comfortable seeing that. I said you have got to be kidding. Some strong angry words later is when I found out that Lisa told my wife (quoting as best I can) I don't want you to have to lie to me(Lisa) and I don't want you to have to lie to Daniel(me), but if you two have sex it will change the out come of this. I don't want you to have to compromise, you need to be true to your self.
Shelly and I have not had sex since. We still have afffection for each other we share tender kisses and touches still too. Shelly told me she needs time. I love her so I can give her time.

As I stated in my first post Lisa would like a monogamous relationship with my wife. My wife is now considering whether she is gay or just bi. We are both looking deep inside and asking the hard questions. I have stepped back. I have had an epiphany of sorts and I will wait as long as it takes for Shelly to come to terms with whatever she decides. I will concentrate on being a better father to our kids.

proseros
Jan 10, 2008, 5:22 AM
Hey.

Maybe I shouldn't try to respond right away. The first few paragraphs punched a big hole in my heart and I had to struggle from bawling like a baby.

Like I mentioned in my response(s) to your previous thread- I own this kind of experience to agree on different levels AND with similarly potentially tragic results. I knew there HAD to be much more going on here but I had no idea that someone may've nearly lost their mind or their life because of it.

I could comment extensively on what you have "filled in" here, but at the moment I am not prepared to do that-feeling the pain of my own experiences all over again.

I am sure that there are others here who've much more compatible experience than I who are better equipped to elucidate the dynamics of the BIG picture. I identify with a lot of what yo've been through, but my relationship was nothing like yours.

On the other hand from a purely man-to-man person-to-person point of view
(and I only say this with the purest sincerity) I am a little ANGRY with the two of you and think you both need a good shaking. Why?

Because you both seem(ed) to have sucha wonderful and rare thing together and you both have been foolish to allow material circumstances to re-define the terms of your relationship (you know-the part where you both said "I love you" to each other and meant it well enough to start a family with and nuture a relationship that has so far lasted 13 years).

So you have shortcomings. So your daughter is growing up. So you are having financial difficulties.
So what! That's what it's supposed to be like. It's called LIFE.
For better or for worse, through sickness and health...

MY GOD WHAT HAPPEN TO THAT? (tears again) How could you both just completely forget that the whole reason you've been together is to live your lives together and struggle with all the great and sometimes fiercely lousy shit that comes with it. And so things aren't so great right now, but DAMNIT you don't fix them by fixing your eyes on someone else. You knuckle up and make YOUR LIVES WORK FOR YOU-NOT AGAINST YOU AND CERTAINLY NOT AGAINST EACH OTHER.

I don't mean to shout at you and know you've been through a lot but I get SO FRUSTRATED every time I hear about people throwing away real love over transient bullshit that love could've fixed if only those involved took the time to focus on "sorting out" more than "letting in". It's always a game until it gets serious and it isn't funny anymore. Sure you've been together, started a family and gotten more than a fair share of two-way trim.

But that is NOT why you are together. It may be who you both are-
But you are together because you love one another, and you need to grow up and learn how and when to take a "time-out" and put fun on the back burner. When your material affairs are fragile you are vulnerable to anything that will change the circumstances to MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER. Sex is one of those things that make us feel better when we are called upon to cope with that hardy heaping pile of shit life just spoons on our plate from time to time.

Of course your marriage is bound to fall apart as long as you subconsciously and socially look outside of it for solutions to material problems. Believe me I know about lousy jobs, lousy people, false friends, and how all of that figures into an otherwise great relationship.

It doesn't very well and it is critical ALWAYS that you turn your eyes inward because at the end of it all that is where the prize is my man. It ain't in someone else's draws , it ain't on the Internet, it isn't anywhere else or with anyone else but YOU.

I apologize to you and everyone else if I've seemed harsh or dramatic.

HighEnergy
Jan 10, 2008, 2:06 PM
OK, so now we know how to yank Proseros chain.... All good points.

BiAz, good luck my dear. I have no words of wisdom other than work on that open communication thing. It seems you've had it, at least part of the time. And sometimes what we are feeling in our hearts are fleeting and best not said. I do so hope you can work it all out, especially with the kids involved. Maybe it's time for both of you to consider them and what's good for them. They are only with you for a very, very short period of time. If you have any relationship at all worth saving, do so. If it means closing your relationship for a while to do so, do it. You say your daughter is practicing being a teenager. I suppose that gives your wife 8 years to make that her priority over finding herself.

the mage
Jan 10, 2008, 5:41 PM
I must say I was suprized by the number of responses my last post recieved.
Many of the responses took the words out of my mouth literally, some unfortunately so. As some of the responders noted that there may be more to this story than meets the eye. I am affraid that there is. When it comes to short comings, I have far more than my wife. I don't express my fellings very well. I have become insecure in our relationship. My unhappiness in my job also has got me down. Financial issues, well we have financial issues in spades. Our oldest daughter is practicing at being a teenager. And my wife is not very happy in her job at the moment either. A very dear freind of ours is in the hospital battling pancratic cancer. And I when Shelly told me that she thiought she was gay, we argued and fought and cried, till we where emotionally and physicaly exhuasted. I was so angry and hurt I wanted to kill, so attempted to end my life. It happened in an instant, I forgot all the good in my life. I woke up in the hospital 4 days later. I have since sought professional help.

In response to the people kind enough to respond to my original post.

My wife and I did have ground rules and boundries, and yes there was even a "veto" rule that we had agreed to as well when we first embarked on our bisexual journey together. Our relationship was strong and we went into this with, we thought eye's wide open. We considered ourselves swinger's. We have played alone in the past but our experiences together were so much better. At least for me. When I would be with a man when Shelly was not participating, I felt... well I felt off somehow and I did not enjoy it as much as I did when she was there. We have shared men and women, much to our enjoyment. I think things began to change when she took a job. She was working nights and my job was a day shift. Men would come on to her all the time. Sometimes she would flirt back, but mostly she spoke of how she did not like the way these men would look at her. I always trusted her though. There was one man she met in that time that she did like. I was aware of this too, since she had told me about him.

I was ok with her attraction to him, she had always allowed me the same freedom too, we spoke openly of such things. One day I got home from work and my wife met me at the door, she took my hand and practically dragged me into the bedroom where she was all over me, we made love passionately untill we where spent.
Later that week Shelly said she needed to talk to me, it was important. She began speaking of the person and the feelings that she was having, again I was fine with it. I pulled her close and whispered in her ear, Honey if you want to s**k his c**k than go ahead its ok.
She said that she already had, she told me how it started the story was pretty hot actually, until it became clear that it had happend 4 days prior, and that was the day she was all over me. I was not happy about not meeting him first but more so about the delay in being told. As the next few weeks unfolded I became aware that there was more to this relationship than she was telling me. There was constant emails and phone calls. One evening I was working on some guitar tableture's and I accidentally clicked paste instead of copy. This long flowing peotic almost erotic love letter appeared from her to him. I confronted her with it, I said this is f**ked up, she explained, it is just the way she writes (there is a lot truth in that statement). Then you are leading him on and that is just cruel I told her.
She told me that they never did anything other than what happend in the initial encounter, I believed her, I still do. They drifted apart and he turned out not to be as great as she had first thought. We I thought had got thruogh it. We still had open communication, we still had our passion and our freindship. We had not been "swinging" for about 6 months before this episode for lack of a better word, and this episode was a little over a year ago. Shelly and I met Lisa in late August, we all became freinds, I knew she was gay. Shelly did not catch that at first. Shelly began to help Lisa with some issues she was dealing with. (12 step stuff). Both my wife and I have been clean and sober over 13 years. We have developed a relationship based on honesty, and spirituality, one day at a time. and until now I thought that it was working well.

Lisa started spending more time at my house, her and Shelly had sex a few times. I did not participate in anyway. Lisa was not comfortable with anything like that. I respected her boundries and I wanted Shelly to do what she wanted. Shelly and I would make love after Lisa would leave.
She began to come over very early in the morning, just before I was leaving for work. As I would leave I would go to kiss Shelly goodbye, and I was reduced to a simple peck on the lips. I tld her I did not like that. When it happened again, I was reduced to an old lady kiss, she placed her cheeck against mine and made the mmmwwwaa sound. I was pissed. The kids had not left for school yet so I did not feel like we could discuss it then and there.
when I got home that day is when I found out that Lisa wasn't comfortable seeing that. I said you have got to be kidding. Some strong angry words later is when I found out that Lisa told my wife (quoting as best I can) I don't want you to have to lie to me(Lisa) and I don't want you to have to lie to Daniel(me), but if you two have sex it will change the out come of this. I don't want you to have to compromise, you need to be true to your self.
Shelly and I have not had sex since. We still have afffection for each other we share tender kisses and touches still too. Shelly told me she needs time. I love her so I can give her time.

As I stated in my first post Lisa would like a monogamous relationship with my wife. My wife is now considering whether she is gay or just bi. We are both looking deep inside and asking the hard questions. I have stepped back. I have had an epiphany of sorts and I will wait as long as it takes for Shelly to come to terms with whatever she decides. I will concentrate on being a better father to our kids.

.........................You REALLY should be talking to professionals about this.
..........Please get real time help, people to talk to...I wish you luck,

musqrat
Jan 10, 2008, 7:54 PM
Sounds like Lisa is nothing but a homewrecker. I'd veto her ass outta there if I were you.

FalconAngel
Jan 10, 2008, 8:13 PM
Well, as we said before, Lisa needs to back out. Particularly if you are being told to back out.

Your wife cannot make a fair decision about herself with either Lisa or you in there prodding her in one direction or the other.

If Lisa cannot respect that, then she needs to spend more time working her program and less time trying to steal other people's spouses.

biazcouple
Jan 11, 2008, 2:05 AM
I was very aprehensive about spilling my guts here, in all honesty. I am however very glad that I did. The insight and wisdom (and sometimes the obvious) offered by those kind enough to respond has touched and humbled me deeply.

I will never be able to thank you enough.

Sincerely,
Daniel

proseros
Jan 11, 2008, 4:47 AM
Well then... Don't tell us...

Tell your wife. Tell your children. Tell your FAMILY.
Those are the people who you are living and dying with.

You know-you can spend a long time around people with without ever really noticing them or knowing who they are or how important they are to you.

SO...

Less Lavalite Lounging and more Huxtable Huddling in the household, OK?

Peace.

Eddie altamonte
Jan 13, 2008, 2:32 AM
Get counseling ASAP, why do you put your needs below all others. Lisa needs to go and if your wife doesn't agree she needs to go with her also. You have a family to which you are obligated your children are first. No one or anything is above that, your wife has to be in agreement of this first and foremost. Lisa has overstepped all reasonable boundries and disrespected you, your marrage and your family and it has to STOP. No more time is to be given to this matter to remain "as is". There needs to be an ultimatum and it's not on Lisa's terms. Don't think that you might lose your wife if you press too hard, that is your self-worth and insecurity that is causing this fear. Does she still love you and the kids or does she just love Lisa? That is her answer alone to give. Go back and remind her of the ground rules agreed upon, the promises made to each other and the sacred vows of matrimony before God and man's law. This is not a guilt trip but a reality check. She needs it, Lisa needs it and you need it