Rev. Fred Phelps and nasty vile followers to visit my community

[12voltman59]

Here in the US--since about mid-Decemeber there had been a "breaking news story" regarding the disappearance of a female Marine Lance Corporal from her duty station at Camp Lejune, North Carolina.

In recent weeks--it was learned the eight month pregant marine was found murdered and her body buried and burned on the property of a fellow marine she had accused of raping her back in Spring 2007.

Her fellow Marine suspected of murdering her has fled and may well be down in Mexico--there is an international lookout for him.

The child she carried came from that rape and she was pursuing the case via the miltary justice system.

Marine Lance Corporal Marie Lauterback comes from a local community-one that I used to live in and I also used to write for the local weekly paper. She was also a member of St. Chrisptoper Catholic Church. I was a member of that parish when I lived up there.

In the Dayton Daily News in the past few days--they ran a frontpage article indicating that our old friend---the unright Rev. Fred Phelps and members of his Westboro Baptist Church plan to be present tomorrow (Saturday) when LC Lauterbach's funeral mass will be held along with the procession to an area cemetery where she will be "laid to rest."

I hope that Phelps and his sorry, sick group do not come here----it is something---Marie Lauterbach was raped and chose to bear the child that resulted as a result of that rape---I think that if abortion is justifed---it is to cut short a life caused by a vile, nasty and brutish act.

That she chose to bear the child says volumes about her.

I thougth that the Phelps crowd just hated that we are in this war for whatever reason they have---of course somehow relating that God hates fags and is mad at America since America so loves fags--sure as hell coulda fooled me on that one!!!

They say that they hate all those who serve in our military since America loves fags----

Well--it is clear that Phelps and his crew are nothing more than a bunch of grandstanding publicity seekers and are truly vile since they would take advantage of such a tragic situation as that of Marie Lauterbach.

I am thinking of going up and joining with the Freedom Riders or whatever that vets group who ride the Harleys and make an appearance too when the Phelps roadshow makes or threatens to make an appearance----but then again--there are probably already too many people being their for reasons other than to pay final respects to Marie Lauterbach and her family.

The more I think of Phelps and his crew---it just pisses me off so much----they have got to be some of the most loathsome individuals I can think of----

I can tell Mr. Phelps this--as a veteran--he can thank his lucky stars I was not something like a Navy Seal, Green Beret or otherwise had the kind of experience and training such people get courtesy of Uncle Sam---I would really be tempted to make use of those skills and send Mr. Phelps to where I think he needs to go---I am kinda surprised that no one with such experience has not done so yet--but one can only hope!!! I would say if someone does do it--"God" must have contacted them and tasked them with pulling of such a vital and worthwhile mission.

[HighEnergy]

Guess it's a good thing it's too cold and icy for me to want to go out or I'd have to join you in the protest.

Although, I think I know why folks don't blow him away at a funeral. Those folks have lost their daughter and grandchild in the most horrid way, even if the grandchild was from a violent occasion.

[wolfcamp]

I hang out on a motorcycle website, and there has been much talk about the Freedom Riders and Fred Phelps. (You won't hear me calling him "Reverend"). Everyone despises Phelps. I don't care what your religious or political views are, every family deserves to be able to bury their loved ones in dignity and respect.

Several states have passed laws that force him to stay a required distance from the funeral proceedings. It's too bad he can't be banned completely. The right to freedom of expression is protected, but there is no protected right to harass these poor families. Phelps and his whole clan are just disgusting.

[welickit]

You hate someone for being a murderer yet you advocate killing someone else. It sounds to us like you are just as nasty and vile as those you are speaking of. Before you jump to a conclusion, yes I am also a veteran, in fact a combat decorated veteran. I fought for freedom and rights for everyone....not for just those I happen to agree with. Because you disagree with someone doesn't grant you the right to impose yourself on them or to cause them harm. While we don't agree with Mr. Phelps we think less of you and your individual thoughts. Suggesting that you would benefit from anger management would be putting it mildly. Our opinion, if you wish us ill also then so be it.

[nothings5d]

I read that they were going to be there, since I'm fairly close by I was considering going so I could protest their protest, but since I don't know how the family would react to that I'm not so sure about doing that...

[12voltman59]

Some things about this post--in terms of where Phelps and his people can protest--by an act of the Ohio Legislature--they must do any protesting no closer than 300 yards from the places that any memorial service is being held--they cannot block traffic, impede ingress and egress from any memorial site and if they do--face immediate arrest.

I do doubt if I will go--it is going to be so cold---and they really don't need anyone else to be there anyhow---

[chuck1124]

Blessings to all of you that want to take a stand against Fred Phelps. Somewhere in his twisted mind, he thinks he is a Christian. He thinks he is doing God's work. Isn't that what Al Quaida thinks too? He is anything but a Christian. Please don't anyone think that all Christians think like him. As for those who want to protest the protesters, I'd love to see you all form a human wall and block Phelps and his sick followers. If his followers were to push one of those forming the wall, wouldn't that be assault and grounds for his arrest?

[Delilah]

Men and Women fought and died so Phelps has the freedom to express himself.
I agree with chuck1124. The Freedom Riders could use all the support for protecting the family of fallen soldier. I think a wall of humans to block those creatures and the family should be in order. Rain, shine, sleek, snow... doesn't matter. Do what's right. I would go but fundings for plane ticket and hotel is limited considering I'm about to get laid off...lol
Seriously folks, if this is what needs to be done, do it. I totally support you.
I support our military!

[Not2str8]

Phelps & Co. have done this all over the U.S. Always in high-profile circumstances, always with plenty of advance publicity, always with the most vile, personally hurtful message they can come up with. One of these days, they're going to pick the wrong event or piss off the wrong grieving family member and the problem will go away. I'm not condoning it, but just as someone who repeatedly pokes a tiger with a stick should expect whatever happens to him, Fred ain't gonna be satisfied until somebody lashes out at him. I will shed no tears for the guy poking the tiger, nor for Mr. Phelps. Both will have gotten a predictable result.

[Damien]

Unfortunately, a part of the price of freedom is enduring the lunacy of those such as Fred Phelps. I understand how very angry they make us, but we must not allow ourselves to become as hateful and mean and unreasonable as they are. We must try to find the inner strength to prove ourselves more noble and ethical and compassionate. More Christ-like if you will.

Nah !!! Screw all that....... Let's just go whack em' over the head with a baseball bat.

[FalconAngel]

What many people have forgotten, Particularly those cowardly fascists from the WBC, is that while freedom has rights, freedom also has it's responsibilities.

As free people, we can say, pretty much, what we want. What we forget, though, is that we also have the responsibility to accept responsibility fo the things that we have a right to say and do.

It isn't a crime to be stupid, but the Phelps crowd at the WBC will find out that stupidity has it's punishments.

They will mouth off at the wrong time and place and there will be someone, or some group, that will retaliate. It may not be the "right" thing to do, but it will be justice.

Kharmic backlash can be a real bitch for people like them.

[Flounder1967]

Go ahead a run them over if you get a shot at them. Just my thoughts on WBC is Rev. Phelps is worth 100 points. aby over the age of 16 are worth 75 apiece.

[Bluebiyou]

Be careful how you word things, folks. I love Fred Phelps just as much as anyone else here, but you don't want some officers tapping on your door...

As I see it, Fred Phelps is simply a combination of two principles:
1. Nothing binds a group like a common hatred.
2. Reaction formation. If you have homosexual feelings and your culture despises homosexuality, become a homo basher to avoid suspicion.

[12voltman59]

Be careful how you word things, folks. I love Fred Phelps just as much as anyone else here, but you don't want some officers tapping on your door...

As I see it, Fred Phelps is simply a combination of two principles:
1. Nothing binds a group like a common hatred.
2. Reaction formation. If you have homosexual feelings and your culture despises homosexuality, become a homo basher to avoid suspicion.

Blue-I think that no one here would really do anything to them---more a matter of thinking out loud as it were--

I do find it interesting---on Phelps' website----they say basically "go ahead and make threats against us--if you do--we turn things over the law enforcement!"

It seems that part of their schtick is to try to provoke others since they do have to be aware of their incendiary tone and words.

They make their crazy bloviations---but just sit back and let others poke at them--they can claim a sort of "victim status" and also say things like: "see---we were just excersing our right of free expression and look at all of those otherwise supposedly peaceful people who say they are going to bash or shoot us!"

So we may play into their hands when we do that!!!

Mea culpa, maxi mea culpa!!!

[mfanycomb]

I'm glad to see that so many people detest Phelps across the country. But then again, what else would one expect on a bisexual site.

Lincoln once stated that he would walk with someone as long as they were right as he saw it and part from them when they were wrong.

Believe it or not Phelps was once a brilliant labor-civil rights lawyer before he was disbarred. After being disbarred he took up his ministry and went off the deep end. (He was even a little strange in his methods before taking up his ministry.)

He is wrong in his interpretation of Christianity and the Bible. They negate the message of compassion and forgiveness found in the life of Jesus. He is wrong in his methods. They are hateful and hurt. He is wrong about sexuality. If you believe in God you must also believe that God created mankind's sexual proclivities.

There is so little joy in life that we should enjoy and embrace the sexuality that offers us such pleasure and takes us to such heights.

I lived in Topeka (Phelps' homebase) for 25 years. I've felt the intimidation of walking through their pickets. But for the most part Topeka (as a community) has taken the stance of giving him and his followers free speech. They should have that right even when they are shouting things which are hateful to me personally.

To have freedom for our own sexuality we must allow freedom for others.

As horrible as these people are we must allow them their right to free speech. And to matyr Phelps would just give the other haters in this country they kind of leverage they would need to go after all those of alternative sexual lifestyles. (Most of us are too young to remember but in 1938 a jew named Grynszpan assassinated 3rd Secretary to the German ambassador to France giving Goebels the excuse to begin Krystalnacht. Read up about Kristalnacht it's horrifying).

Hate Phelps if you must. But remember that to have freedom you must allow freedom for others regardless. It's best to oppose him by speaking out against his message and his methods continually.

[wolfcamp]

You hate someone for being a murderer yet you advocate killing someone else. It sounds to us like you are just as nasty and vile as those you are speaking of. Before you jump to a conclusion, yes I am also a veteran, in fact a combat decorated veteran. I fought for freedom and rights for everyone....not for just those I happen to agree with. Because you disagree with someone doesn't grant you the right to impose yourself on them or to cause them harm. While we don't agree with Mr. Phelps we think less of you and your individual thoughts. Suggesting that you would benefit from anger management would be putting it mildly. Our opinion, if you wish us ill also then so be it.

Expressing how you feel about something, and actually taking an action to intentionally hurt someone, either physically or emotionally, are two completely different matters. 12voltman59 was merely expressing what many of us were thinking if we were honest enough to admit it. Do you really think he was contemplating, or advocating real actions? I don't. He was using antithesis and a bit of sarcasm to make his point. He says he would be "tempted", but I don't see that he acts on his temptation. ALL OF US are tempted at one point or another. That doesn't make us vile and nasty, and it doesn't put us on the level of the Phelps and the hurtful actions they have taken.

People go to anger management sessions for ACTIONS, not THOUGHTS. Anger management counselors would probably have him do exactly what he is doing here, and that is to express what he is feeling and try to get to the source of the anger.

The thing that makes me angry is people who are intolerant and quick to judge. It makes me feel like doing hurtful things. Do you think I should go to an anger management session?

Wolfcamp

[12voltman59]

Thanks Wolfcamp---could not have said it better myself!!

Obviously I would not be the only one that, by Well's view should take those classes----

[Damien]

Expressing how you feel about something, and actually taking an action to intentionally hurt someone, either physically or emotionally, are two completely different matters. 12voltman59 was merely expressing what many of us were thinking if we were honest enough to admit it. Do you really think he was contemplating, or advocating real actions? I don't. He was using antithesis and a bit of sarcasm to make his point. He says he would be "tempted", but I don't see that he acts on his temptation. ALL OF US are tempted at one point or another. That doesn't make us vile and nasty, and it doesn't put us on the level of the Phelps and the hurtful actions they have taken.

People go to anger management sessions for ACTIONS, not THOUGHTS. Anger management counselors would probably have him do exactly what he is doing here, and that is to express what he is feeling and try to get to the source of the anger.

The thing that makes me angry is people who are intolerant and quick to judge. It makes me feel like doing hurtful things. Do you think I should go to an anger management session?

Wolfcamp

Nicely done Wolfcamp.

[HighEnergy]

I ended up driving past the church today, as I took my sister to the airport. It was good to see a good 50-80 motorcycles in front of the church and the hatemongers on the other side of the rode. But it was quite sad to think of the agony and suffering the family must feel and have the circus out front. No one should have the right to turn other family's suffering into a circus. I understand that they limit Mr. Phelps ability to be close to the funeral, but damn it, he should be on the other side of town! Especially from folks who've lost their daughter and granddaughter to a murder and then have her body desecrated by burning it to hide the evidence!

[HighEnergy]

The hopeful part was explaining to my 12 year old why Phelps does what he does. Out of the mouth of the babe came, "that's stupid and cruel."

[FalconAngel]

The hopeful part was explaining to my 12 year old why Phelps does what he does. Out of the mouth of the babe came, "that's stupid and cruel."

And a little child shall lead them, eh? :)

Pity that simple lesson is lost on the WBC and all of the other hate-mongers out there who use religion as an excuse for their crimes.

On the other hand, let those assholes come down here to our home and I will knock down the first one that interferes with any funerals here.

But then, that may just be a little of my "dog" coming out to defend my pack.

[12voltman59]

I did not go---but I am sorry that Phelps or one of his affiliated groups did show up----

I do like what the motorcycle vets do---someone calls "attention!" like is done in the military, then the order is given to do an "about face" which means you turn around 180 degrees---they silently turn their backs on the Phelps crew and don't give them the satisfaction of any sort of response since they do not deserve the respect of any sort of reply or response----

I am sure that the local TV news crews and the local papers have their reporters interview their spokesperson---I know that if I were still working that beat---I would have had to interview them--even though it would be very hard to retain my "professional objectivity" with them!!!!

I would at least want to tell them that they are totally full of shit and like Lewis Black likes to say about such people: "they are batshit fucking crazy!"

[12voltman59]

Even though Phelps and his group did show up at the funeral yesterday----I liked what our local television stations did in handling them---they mentioned they were there but did not show them at all---I haven't gone out and gotten the paper as yet, so I don't know how they handled it---but I am glad the press did not give Phelps a chance to get any publicity beyond a simple recognition they were there.

[alaskacouple]

12voltman59,

I think this is the key to dealing with people like this no matter who/when/where they show up. If we would all ignore them they will get bored and go back to their hole. I think the best way any of us can "fight" them is to contact our local news media before they intend to swarm and demand in the strongest terms that these people not be given the free publicity that they are seeking. It's actually all about the publicity - if they thought no one would be filming them they wouldn't show up at all - that's why they pick high profile circumstances. I admire those who turned their backs, that showed great wisdom.

[Bluebiyou]

Wow. I read a cnn article that mentioned the patriot riders but not the NAZIs... I mean Fred Phelps gang. I was wondering if they even showed up. But the coded text that the patriot riders sang suggests they sang for a reason.

But to reiterate, the two most likely causes of this venomous onslaught:
1. nothing unifies a group like a common hatred. Fred clearly understands Hitlers principle from 'Mein Kumpf'.
2. Reaction formation. By attacking homosexuality, Fred Phelps is trying to hide his own 'unchristian' sexuality/sexual past.

Or he could just be loopy.

[DiamondDog]

2. Reaction formation. By attacking homosexuality, Fred Phelps is trying to hide his own 'unchristian' sexuality/sexual past.

I somehow doubt that's the case. There are bigots and homophobes who aren't closet bisexual or closeted homosexuals.

Even if this guy is bi/gay I don't want him to be since he'd be associated with us and with those labels.

[alaskacouple]

He is a small man with a small mind. And like all such men he will fade away like the dew under the summer sun - with no memory and no impact on the course of mankind. (But, that doesn't keep him from being irritating!)

As for me, I refuse to be dragged into the mud with him and thereby become as filled with hate against him as he is toward me - we have all heard the saying; 'Don't wrestle in the mud with the pigs son, they like it and you just get dirty.'

[stuporman]

I think Fred Phelps is s disgrace to the Christian church. I do not support the debacle in Iraq, but I do recognize and support the bravery of our soldiers and sailors. I will tell a politician where to get off in a New York minute, but you will NEVER see me disrespect our flag or a service member. Perosnally, I think George Bush saw 9 11 as a golden opportunity to grab a lot of power and make a lot of monye for himself and his friends who run Halliburton, and to water down the Bill of Rights.
Fred Phelps turns my stomach. To show up at a funeral where a brave soldier is being put to rest and harass his/her realtives is disgusting. bravo to the Freedom Riders! I have noticed that most Biker "Public Sevice" groups tend to be hardasses who enjoy macho grandstanding, but be that as it may, you have to give them SOMETHING to do. 'nuff said.

[12voltman59]

Among many things that the death of Marie Lauterbach--she is but one of many women serving in our military services who are apparently victims of sexual and other abuse--a problem that seems to be getting worse.

The Marine Corps was reticent to strongly investigate her case----in fact--they kind of made her out to be a "trouble maker," "malcontent" and the like.

As reported by Mandi Sheridan--the reporter for WDTN TV 2 News--who has been reporting on this situation at length--Sheridan has appeared a number of times discussing what she has learned on the Lauterbach case on CNN's Nancy Grace and Larry King shows---Ms. Lauterbach had been a good Marine until she began pressing the service to bring her attacker to justice.

She was making her superiors do something about her rape---something they seemed to be reluctant to do had she not been making some noise---it was because of that they began to say she was being a bad Marine and that she should perhaps be "seperated from service."

I think this is called "sweeping the problems under the rug!"

The other thing that I find sad about this case---Ms. Lauterbach could had terminated her pregnancy---a pregnancy that happened as a result of that sexual assualt---

She was "being the good girl" in keeping her baby--which I would think that Fred Phelps would have found honorable, since I am sure he loves fetuses--(he only loves them as long as they don't become "fags" when they get older--or a whole other lists of things I am certainly he also hates as well), instead he says she and the baby deserved their deaths.

I am glad our local media hardly mentioned Phelps' group protesting at her memorial service.

I also do hope that the military brass begins to take seriously that they seem to have an atmosphere in the services that is favorable for male service members to sexually assault their female comrades without facing much consequence----there are many, many cases like the Lauterbach situation being reported in nearly every branch of our military services---there have been some figures published that have it that something like 3 out of 5 female service members are victims of some sort of threatening acts by fellow male service members ranging from sexual harassment up to and including rape and murder.

[12voltman59]

At another chat site I visit---there is a thread on that board about the Phelps crew---someone posted this link of an online video taken from a BBC documentary about the Phelps family/church.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4413388146858417528

It is both interesting and really kind of sad in a way---the patriarch of the family--Fred Phelps pretty much dominates things---I wonder that when he passes---their whole thing may just fall apart--that would be a good thing.

[VBScript]

Voltman-Do you have to write your posts with tons of hyphens and write like a newscaster reporting a story in every single post?

It's really confusing, pointless, and annoying to have to read all of this instead of focusing on one main point instead of tons of writing that doesn't really tell the reader anything, and it would be a lot better written in a blog or something like that instead of here.