Son of Cain (who slays Ably)

[Annika L]

"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it."
-- Senator John McCain

Well that says it all.

This man will make Dan Quayle look like a genius.

(I just thought the other side deserved equal time! :tong: With credit and apologies to chu for the thought, and thanks to orpheus_lost for setting the record straight!)

[bubba]

Annika Hon .... Chu my Friend ..... whats a genious?

[Annika L]

LOL Bubba! The perils of Cut and Paste! Will the world survive?

[FalconAngel]

The flaw that I see with the perception implied by those who use that quote as a derision on Obama is this one thing.

We all are aware that, no matter how good this country is, it is not perfect.

Look at Bush; he saw this nation as the greatest on the planet and he changed it......and NOT for the better.

I see what Obama said as wanting to change things for the better. There is always room for improvement. Particularly in light of the last almost eight years of incompetent and maliciously corrupt leadership in the White House.

I come from a household where my father is a card carrying, flag waving, die hard party Republican. The party can do no wrong in his eyes. The prescription drug abuser, Rush Limbaugh is their god and is never wrong. Especially when he's wrong.

I am a republican, but I am a patriot first and foremost. I could care less about the party and their piss poor choices of leaders. I vote for the guy that I believe is the best choice for the nation; not the best choice from the party.

In my humble and learned opinion, that is the way it should be.
But the political idiots in both parties have, quite successfully, managed to divide the people of this nation based on party alliances.
That's just plain wrong.

Vote your conscience, before your party.

No matter where your conscience leads you, vote your conscience, before your party.

[Annika L]

The flaw that I see with the perception implied by those who use that quote as a derision on Obama is this one thing.

We all are aware that, no matter how good this country is, it is not perfect.

Look at Bush; he saw this nation as the greatest on the planet and he changed it......and NOT for the better.

I see what Obama said as wanting to change things for the better. There is always room for improvement. Particularly in light of the last almost eight years of incompetent and maliciously corrupt leadership in the White House.

I come from a household where my father is a card carrying, flag waving, die hard party Republican. The party can do no wrong in his eyes. The prescription drug abuser, Rush Limbaugh is their god and is never wrong. Especially when he's wrong.

I am a republican, but I am a patriot first and foremost. I could care less about the party and their piss poor choices of leaders. I vote for the guy that I believe is the best choice for the nation; not the best choice from the party.

In my humble and learned opinion, that is the way it should be.
But the political idiots in both parties have, quite successfully, managed to divide the people of this nation based on party alliances.
That's just plain wrong.

Vote your conscience, before your party.

No matter where your conscience leads you, vote your conscience, before your party.

Did you miss that the quote is actually by McCain?? Obama said no such thing! (well, ok, Obama is indeed in favor of change, as many of us are, but he said nothing so inarticulate)

[chulainn2]

thank you bubba, it is not my spelling, but my typing that is in error.

[Bluebiyou]

*Sigh*
Too much emphasis here on an election campaign euphemism.

"Change" - nearly everyone wants some kind of change. Any candidate would be a fool in 2008 not to preach change.
"It's the economy, stupid" - who among us is immune to the economy?
"A car in every garage and a chicken in every pot" - a cute oldie.

Politics as usual.
George Bush Sr. should have gotten a second term.
Slick Willie should have only had one term.
McCain should have occupied what was Bush's second term.

But as a die hard conservative Republican, I have to admit it. Two terms under George Jr. was too much of a right swing.
There would be serious change under McCain, but still too far/long to the right.
Obama is a wildcard, but, probably a necessary and good swing back to the left.
At worst, Obama couldn't be any worse than Bush Jr. (whom I voted for twice). Bush Jr. sold us all down the road for the profit of big oil.

[bisexualinsocal]

*Sigh*
Too much emphasis here on an election campaign euphemism.

"Change" - nearly everyone wants some kind of change. Any candidate would be a fool in 2008 not to preach change.
"It's the economy, stupid" - who among us is immune to the economy?
"A car in every garage and a chicken in every pot" - a cute oldie.

Politics as usual.
George Bush Sr. should have gotten a second term.
Slick Willie should have only had one term.
McCain should have occupied what was Bush's second term.

But as a die hard conservative Republican, I have to admit it. Two terms under George Jr. was too much of a right swing.
There would be serious change under McCain, but still too far/long to the right.
Obama is a wildcard, but, probably a necessary and good swing back to the left.
At worst, Obama couldn't be any worse than Bush Jr. (whom I voted for twice). Bush Jr. sold us all down the road for the profit of big oil.


Stop pretending to be a Republican and stop with your illuminati paranoia about "big oil". Perhaps you'd have been more comfortable under big ketchup?

If you think a swing to the left in any form is good, think Jimmy Carter.

Think, Barack O'Carter.

[Bluebiyou]

Carter!
*Sigh*
Between Carter and Willie the usa helped N. Korea develop nukes, remember the talks... and humanitarian aid back in .... 95?

I have no love of Carter. Carter is a wonderful/fantastic human being, but not... good at making judgements at top political levels.

As far as:
Stop pretending to be a Republican and stop with your illuminati paranoia about "big oil". Perhaps you'd have been more comfortable under big ketchup?
You're not arguing, you're merely artistically contradicting.
If, for a single second you pretend Bush has/does not cater to oil corporations... wait... nevermind. I'm foolishly pursuing an intellectual argument with someone who merely wishes to fight.
One for you!
You had me going!
I see now why many folks think you're the troll.

[FalconAngel]

Did you miss that the quote is actually by McCain?? Obama said no such thing! (well, ok, Obama is indeed in favor of change, as many of us are, but he said nothing so inarticulate)

You're right. Sorry. Blonde moment.:tong:

[bisexualinsocal]

What others people on this message board think of me is of little significance.

And to address the paranoia about Bush catering to the Oil companies..... well, I'm glad somebody is.

You think that oil is going to pump itself out of the ground?

Someone has to ship, formulate it and distribute it. If anything, oil companies shouldn't pay taxes at all and pass the savings on to us tax payers in the form of lower gas prices and higher dividends.

[darkeyes]

I am a republican, but I am a patriot first and foremost. I could care less about the party and their piss poor choices of leaders. I vote for the guy that I believe is the best choice for the nation; not the best choice from the party.

Vote your conscience, before your party.

No matter where your conscience leads you, vote your conscience, before your party. Summat me has neva entirely undastood bout 'merican politics..wer me cums from peeps tend 2 vote (or not) in accord wiv ther conscience inasmuch as they vote for the party wich mos closely stands for the kinda society an world they wanna c. We don vote as such for individuals in a general election..leaders lead the party... an wile leaders personalities r important in elections it is the party an its political philosophy an its policies we r in ther votin for. Sure we mark a lil X ona ballot paper in a shitty first past the post system for UK elections (elections for the Scottish, Welsh an NI parliaments r dun diff, tho ther is a 1st past the post element ther an all), an wiv summat like a third a the electorate politically floaters who vote not in accord wiv ther conscience, political philososphy or owt else cept ther own perception a how the govt of the day is doin an how well off or badly ther material world is .. but mostly peeps r eitha Tory, Labour or Lib Dem or Nationalist by instinct or upbringin.. an wen ther party aint deliverin they usually don tend 2 vote for the enemy..but abstain in droves an not vote at all..

Am not condemnin peeps for changin the way they think or vote... am a socialist an no way cud me eva vote for a party wich didn reflect in sum way how me wonts 2 c my country run an develop.. wud ratha vote for a party wich wos led by sum 1 less able but reflected my view a the world, than a party led by a political genius whose ideals wer polar opposite 2 mine.. me ideals r me conscience an me conscience me ideals an sensa wot is rite.. politically they r inseperable..

In the end tho am sufficiently cynical bout all parties an politicians that these days me havin a helluva job findin sum 1.. ne 1.... me can vote for ne way.. next time round mite do summat me has neva dun b fore.. spoil me ballot papa an sod em all.. an yet.. an yet the party in power is the party me been raised in an am a member of.. that its went moren more 2 the rite ova the las decade am havin huge difficulties wiv... an yet in social terms it has been responsible for many of the mos important advances we hav seen in the UK, but conversely it is also becummin more an more the party a big brother.... conundrum huh? Complex an poopy ole world...:(

[Bluebiyou]

Well, that's a little different now.
I'm pretty sure it's not paranoia. As long as we (usa) can maintain tensions in middle east, we sustain high oil prices.
High oil prices now are really contradictory of usa interests (except China). The "let's build and drive huge gas eating SUVs" ethic of 90's in usa helps drain foreign oil to sustain our economy. When middle east deposits are very drained, (then the arabs can kill each other over sand) we start into our reserves. If I'm not mistaken, the largest reserves of the planet are in north america, with the single largest being the 'sand oil' up in Canada. We will have control of supply and high prices will force us and the world to convert to alcohol (eventually, the oil reserves will thin out). Where will the alcohol be produced? The great plains, and other farming in the south. (Of course, I've left out coal entirely).
Granted, we - the ordinary folks of the country will continue to burn lots of oil (products) until the price goes high, then we'll start to work on alternatives.
Now prematurely high oil prices (before mid-east reserves are low) can only benefit in
a) helping to slow economic growth in China
b) augmenting yankee ingenuity in alternative fuels.
c) Spurring begining of alcohol production as a fuel.
d) Really, really, really, help the profit margin of large oil companies.
e) Really, really, really, help the profit margin of lot's of Texas/Oklahoma independent oil wells.
Premature high oil prices really blow the "let's drain the middle east oil as fast as possible" idea.
Perhaps it was 2003 or 4 when George W. signed into law a piece of legislation that changed - pay attention now - from refineries being required to produce pure gasoline to refineries being required to add alcohol. For the last two decades before this law, all local distributors of gasoline added alcohol, as prices warranted. BP was the worst in adding the most alcohol as my old carburated vehicle would barely run on BP gas. This addition was based on economics gas vs. alcohol prices. This was profit for the distributor. The distributor was 'cutting the gas' with alcohol for profit.
In conclusion, the law did not introduce alcohol to gasoline, it merely shifted the profit to the refinery's pocket from the distributor's pocket.

[darkeyes]

Stop pretending to be a Republican and stop with your illuminati paranoia about "big oil". Perhaps you'd have been more comfortable under big ketchup?

If you think a swing to the left in any form is good, think Jimmy Carter.

Think, Barack O'Carter.
Swingin 2 the rite dun the world a lotta gud an all huh?

If u think votin for McCain in any form is gud.. think Oven or Micro Chips.. spose they gud forya big bottla ketchup...:tong:

[jamieknyc]

Swingin 2 the rite dun the world a lotta gud an all huh?

If u think votin for McCain in any form is gud.. think Oven or Micro Chips.. spose they gud forya big bottla ketchup...:tong:

You're too young to remember Jimmy Carter, but I do.

If you ever wondered why we live in an age where the Republican party is the dominant party in American politics, it is because Jimmy Carter did it singlehanded. When Carter took office, the Democrats had been the dominant party for almost as long as living memory. But since Carter was such an awful president, he made the public so disgusted with the Democratic party that every president since him was a Republican except for Clinton, who the really ideological Democrats considered a closet Republican anyway.

Think of someone twice as incompetent as Bush, and oyu have an idea of what Carter was like- even though I admit I voted for him.

[FalconAngel]

You're too young to remember Jimmy Carter, but I do.

If you ever wondered why we live in an age where the Republican party is the dominant party in American politics, it is because Jimmy Carter did it singlehanded. When Carter took office, the Democrats had been the dominant party for almost as long as living memory. But since Carter was such an awful president, he made the public so disgusted with the Democratic party that every president since him was a Republican except for Clinton, who the really ideological Democrats considered a closet Republican anyway.

Think of someone twice as incompetent as Bush, and you have an idea of what Carter was like- even though I admit I voted for him.


I remember Carter. I was a young PFC in the Army, stationed at Ft. Jackson, when he made the horribly ill-conceived decision to wait 6 months past the proper time of year for the hostage rescue mission that failed at Desert One.
His delays caused that mission to fail as well as the deaths of those men. Being as he was a former Submariner, he shouldn't be expected to know how the weather and conditions change in the desert, but his advisers told him about it and he disregarded their advice.

So, needless to say, I am no fan of Carter, but he made monumental efforts in trying to bring people together to build a livable peace in the Middle East; and while he wasn't completely successful in it, he opened the door for the strides, in that direction, that were made since then; until Bush tore down those positive changes.

But Carter's biggest issue, as I said before, is that he was a former submariner on a nuclear missile sub. That gave him a serious awareness of what would happen once the button got pushed. That gave him a certain degree of trepidation when it came to using military power to accomplish certain goals, like the hostage crisis in Iran.
That is not to say that I am defending him; just putting things into perspective.

But, no matter what we think of him, overall as a President, he did accomplish something positive and started work in at least one positive direction for world peace, which is far more than has happened with Bush.

Let's face it. No President is perfect and some are worse than others. Kennedy, seen as one of the greatest Presidents of our time, had little domestic policy skill and great foreign policy skill, while Johnson, who many people hated, had better skills in domestic policy and horrible foreign policy skills.

No matter what, we must remember that these men all work for us. We elected them, so in a very real way, we are responsible for the leaders that we place in power.
We need caution and serious thought in that decision, which is why I always say to vote your conscience before your party and always make sure that you study the issues and how each candidate has voted on the issues and why they voted the way they did on those issues.

[vittoria]

Perhaps it was 2003 or 4 when George W. signed into law a piece of legislation that changed - pay attention now - from refineries being required to produce pure gasoline to refineries being required to add alcohol. For the last two decades before this law, all local distributors of gasoline added alcohol, as prices warranted. BP was the worst in adding the most alcohol as my old carburated vehicle would barely run on BP gas. This addition was based on economics gas vs. alcohol prices. This was profit for the distributor. The distributor was 'cutting the gas' with alcohol for profit.
In conclusion, the law did not introduce alcohol to gasoline, it merely shifted the profit to the refinery's pocket from the distributor's pocket.


Naturally he would want to "cut" gasoline with something and making it a requirement...

If anyone knows about "cut" it would be a cokehead...;)

[bisexualinsocal]

Swingin 2 the rite dun the world a lotta gud an all huh?

If u think votin for McCain in any form is gud.. think Oven or Micro Chips.. spose they gud forya big bottla ketchup...:tong:

I wish I knew what you were saying. But considering that I speak english and not whatever language you speak, I don't think I ever will.

[texasman6172003]

Hey y'all, All i know is that THEY ARE ALL A BUNCH OF FUCKING CROOKS!! They have all done something wrong are stabbed someone in the back to get where they are. They just haven't all been cuaght at what ever it was they did,LOL. :rolleyes:

[rissababynta]

If anyone knows about "cut" it would be a cokehead...;)


lmfao!

[chulainn2]

Your right Falcon, and lets not forget the Bay of Pigs, that very well could have cost JFK's next election had he not been riding in a convertible lincoln in Dallas.
carter is no doubt the most lame-duck president in my life. he was a good state governor and that was clearly his calling any further than that and he exceeded his highest level of incompetency and lets not forget the first thing he did was give up the the Panama Canal.
My first time to vote was for Reagan, which i gladly did to say goodbye to the peanut farmer.
I bought a case of Billy Beer wish i saved a can.

[NumberSix]

But Carter's biggest issue, as I said before, is that he was a former submariner on a nuclear missile sub. That gave him a serious awareness of what would happen once the button got pushed.

Are you saying that the man with the power to push the button shouldn't be entirely aware of what would happen if the button was pushed???

[FalconAngel]

Are you saying that the man with the power to push the button shouldn't be entirely aware of what would happen if the button was pushed???

Quite the contrary, everyone who has access to "the button", should know exactly what will happen, but it should not put him in paralyzing fear of using military power when it's needed, at the time that it's needed.

Diplomacy is a wonderful and, often, effective tool to maintaining peace; even achieving it, in some cases, but fact of the matter is that in order to maintain peace, you need to be prepared and willing to enter into war.
The military is for use when diplomacy fails and Carter was not capable of understanding that there was a point when diplomacy had failed, in the Iran Hostage crisis, and failed to apply the correct military might at the right time.

Diplomacy is the work of preparing and maintaining peace, but the real threat of military power, when used correctly is the tool that insures that diplomatically achieved peace is maintained.
Or, as Teddy Roosevelt said, "Walk softly and carry a big stick".

Grenada was the perfect example of proper application and timing of military power, for example.

But Carter was so afraid of taking provocative action, for fear of initiating actions that would start us on the way to a nuclear war, that he refused to take the right action at the right time.
That inaction made the US look weak in the eyes of the world which played a part in the actions that have brought us to the point we are now.