The Four Steps to Unity on Planet Earth

[vittoria]

1) Leave me alone.


Most people would like to be left alone. They dont want to be bothered
with BS, let alone anyone elses.


2) Dont mess with my food.


Most people would like their food supply to be safe. They want to eat.



3) Dont mess with my money.


Most people would like their money safe. Hell, most people want to make a
decent living wage, and not have their money donated to life ending
things like ... um lets say, WAR


4) Dont blow me up.


Most people dont like the idea of worrying what country is going to invade
and blow them up at any given time. I believe if everyone wore a
"NOT WITH STUPID" tshirt that has a picture of the person who's fault
the entire shittin thing is, then that would narrow down who should, and
who should NOT get blown to bits. I know I like living... and I believe
so does the next broke human.



If we all remember that most people on this planet have those 4 basic things in common, the world would be a better place. Just my :2cents:

[jem_is_bi]

The problem is:
1) People want to drive their car.
That requires oil from where?
2) Other people know exactly how you need to live your life.
That requires laws against, policies that disregard, and lack of protections for bisexual me?

CAN YOU ADD MORE FUN REASONS TO THE LIST OF WHY WE TRASH ONE ANOTHER?

[vittoria]

The problem is:
1) People want to drive their car.
That requires oil from where?
2) Other people know exactly how you need to live your life.
That requires laws against, policies that disregard, and lack of protections for bisexual me?

CAN YOU ADD MORE FUN REASONS TO THE LIST OF WHY WE TRASH ONE ANOTHER?

That goes back to number 1 of the 4 steps... the "leave me alone" factor. If people left folks alone and minded their business your problems one and two would be null and void... logically speaking.

Live long and prosper,

V

[void()]

vitt hon,

My wife and I have talked about this at length on numerous occasions. Here's a real simple way to bring peace.

Abolish money.

Folks would still work. They'd simply do what they loved doing for the sake of doing it. And they'd strive to do well at it because everyone could go out and get a free education and build rocket ships. Without money there's no one better or worse as far as opportunity, it becomes a truly level field.

And food safety would be ensured because most involved in major food industries would abide by the family rule. In case you've never been in such an industry the family is looking at the food product and asking yourself, "would I feed this to my family?" Of course there's also the me rule, "would i eat this?"

Without money doctors would keep you well and not be bound by obligations to pharma companies.

And a lot of religions might probably cease to exist without money. After all if there's no money, what are their gods going to ask for?

But then how would folks come up with a system value, you may wonder.

Well, barter does work out nicely. But folks would want a fair universal standard. And you may suggest that might lead back to money. Why could we not establish local councils to 'fix' hourly money.

For example in say London everyone agrees to abide their council's ruling that one hour of work equates to roughly $10 USD. Okay, say a common shirt cost maybe three minutes of work given the industrial equipment they use in making them. You could break down the cost of a minute. So a shirt might cost $0.30 at 10 cents a minute of making time.

And each locality could have it's own rates, and still have one 'universal' rate all over the world. All the localities and districts could vote for a global council to 'fix the universal rate'. And folks could buy, sell, trade either on the Local rate, or Universal rate. Sellers could ask for whichever rate they chose, more than likely asking the higher rate. That would still be fair to everyone.

And yes it may appear to be a form of money. But it really isn't money so much as the values clearly expressed, which was what money was supposed to symbolize anyway. Somehow that got lost in translation.

Oh yeah, absolute power did it. Well, if there's no money there's not much need in governance. Sure we'd need basic well being sort of things on local levels, but there would be no need of invasive government. No need for war.

So, if we abolish money we might get there. Merely our humbled :2cents:.

[darkeyes]

Abolishin money has always made sense 2 me.. but like many otha ideals its a long way off... doubt if ne of us will b bout 2 c it.... an not 2 sure wot u suggestin is actually abolition a money reelly but mite b worth bearin in mind...

Tho mus admit.. shoppin wudn b near so much fun wivout it....:bigrin:

[vittoria]

Bartering used to work out nicely back in the day...

but the actual basis for abolishing money ISNT the money itself...

its the GREED.

Lets try abolishing THAT and see what happens....

then the government will try to REDEFINE what exactly greed is to suit their purposes...

gotta love "NEWSPEAK"!! (George Orwell is rolling so much in his grave he could be a turbine engine powering the entire northern hemisphere of the world!!)

[Bluebiyou]

Rule#5.

Determine DNA test for sociopathy and kill all newborns (preborn?) with said gene.
Sociopaths constitute 1-4% of the population, are responsible for the vast majority of woe in the world, and don't follow rules. Most of us know 1 or 2 sociopaths, we may not realize it.

[darkeyes]

We kill babbas who mite grow up inta arseholes??? Not quite sure me wud agree wivya that they the source a mosta the woes in the world.. lot worse than them.. they on telly mos days showin us wot propa arseholes r like an tryin 2 run our lives for us..

[darkeyes]

Bartering used to work out nicely back in the day...

but the actual basis for abolishing money ISNT the money itself...

its the GREED.

Lets try abolishing THAT and see what happens....

then the government will try to REDEFINE what exactly greed is to suit their purposes...

gotta love "NEWSPEAK"!! (George Orwell is rolling so much in his grave he could be a turbine engine powering the entire northern hemisphere of the world!!)
aaaah V.. greed... money or no, a much harder thing 2 abolish..:(

[csrakate]

Rule#5.

Determine DNA test for sociopathy and kill all newborns (preborn?) with said gene.
Sociopaths constitute 1-4% of the population, are responsible for the vast majority of woe in the world, and don't follow rules. Most of us know 1 or 2 sociopaths, we may not realize it.

I realize that this is all tongue in cheek...but dayammm....the very thought of this just gave me a very sick feeling in my stomach!

[darkeyes]

I realize that this is all tongue in cheek...but dayammm....the very thought of this just gave me a very sick feeling in my stomach!

Even in jest sure dus mumsy.. sociopaths, then who?? Us?? Gave me the shivers an all... mind u..who me 2 talk.. Cleave sittin in 'is case on the wall smilin at me wiv the big sad eyes beggin 2 b unretired...:tong:

'E wudda been an all if it wos me had the car wen sum sociopath MAN driver smashed the tail lite this mornin when Naggy took Lou 2 nursery!!:tong:

[Bluebiyou]

We kill babbas who mite grow up inta arseholes??? Not quite sure me wud agree wivya that they the source a mosta the woes in the world.. lot worse than them.. they on telly mos days showin us wot propa arseholes r like an tryin 2 run our lives for us..


I realize that this is all tongue in cheek...but dayammm....the very thought of this just gave me a very sick feeling in my stomach!

Yes, yes. Some tongue in cheek.
Of course I'm pointing out the futility of Utopian concepts (absolutely no disrespect to authors of this thread, pursuers of Utopian attributes, nice people in general, or Jesus).
It's simply a statistic that 1-4% of population are sociopaths.
The majority of people in prisons are sociopaths.
Unfortunately, a large percentage of people in management (including politics) are also sociopaths.
A sociopath is someone totally emotionally indifferent to the feelings of others (no empathy, sympathy); there is only self, and therefore no conscience. A sociopath is certainly aware of others' feelings, but only as they serve the sociopath (usually manipulative means).
Sociopaths are usually amused by us 'normal' folk in that we 'choose' to limit ourselves by a 'conscience'.
A sociopath 'wears' a set of lies like we wear clothing. A sociopath learns (even more so than the homosexual) that his/her sociopathy is unaccepted, and therefore s/he learns to blend and display certain traits/ hide others.
For a sociopath, there is little (if any) love in life. There is little/no payback in 'love'. The meaning of life is only cheap thrills usually involved in manipulation and 'winning'.
Of course the bottom of the barrel of sociopaths are the Ted Bundy, Ed Gein, David Berkowitz, John Wayne Gacy, etc... At the top of the barrel we have the Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Saddam Hussein, Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin variety. Possibly even Ted Kennedy and probably George Washington!
Jimmy Carter most certainly was not a sociopath... but was not a great leader.
Margaret Thatcher was a tough bitch (meant respectfully of course) but I don't think she was a true sociopath.
Some doctors (especially surgeons) are sociopaths; and yet a lot of these guys are beneficial to society.
(Tongue in cheek) All lawyers are definitely sociopaths.

Yet, in 100% irony to seriously work toward any Utopian end, I suggest a NAZI-esk "final solution" to get there (and maintain Utopia).
In order to achieve a world without evil, we kill the evildoers at birth! :)
Like I said, this IS meant in jest, but very, very, unfortunately it is also a very practical approach.
Although, sociopaths are both born and made (paralleling sexual preferences?!?). Thus I'm displaying and savoring the irony. (pointing out the irony... by killing the evildoers at birth, have we not ourselves become evildoers also?)

[vittoria]

Rule#5.

Determine DNA test for sociopathy and kill all newborns (preborn?) with said gene.
Sociopaths constitute 1-4% of the population, are responsible for the vast majority of woe in the world, and don't follow rules. Most of us know 1 or 2 sociopaths, we may not realize it.

That's a bit too "Gattaca-esque" -- Gattaca is a great movie about genetically based and biased reproduction... stars jude law and uma thurman... watch it-- you'll love it if you like Hitler based eugenics...

However, yet this hypothetical "rule #5" would be in breach of above rule #4 "Dont blow me up". No one really wants to die, have an excuse to be told TO die, or anything else.

The point of pointing out rule number 4 is to bring attention to the strange, insatiable desire of people to want to kill others for whatever reason. Apparently, the need to kill others who are different or any other reason is part of the definition of a sociopath... so Blue babes you may need to look out as well :tong:

The response to a way of peace is "kill 'em"..how Freudian

[csrakate]

If we adhere to Vitt's rules 1-4, many of these so-called sociopaths wouldn't feel compelled to act out in the ways that many of them do. Following Vitt's rules we simply leave them alone, we don't mess with their stuff nor do we threaten their existence. Problem solved! LOL! I'm just joking...please..don't feel a need to point out that they themselves wouldn't be able to follow any rules!!! LOL!

[Bluebiyou]

Kate, sociopaths don't follow rules.

Oh, wait... you said not to...

Sorry
Nevermind.
:)
Sieg..... Heil!
wait...
this rule making shit is deeper than I thought!
LOL

[kitten]

Rules are made to be broken...

just a thought anyway...:bigrin:

[Bluebiyou]

Although Vittoria,
your sentiments ring through humanity.

"I think life would be wonderful if people would just leave you alone."

Hanna
Charlie Chaplin's "The Great Dictator"

[darkeyes]

Jus teensy weesny wee question V babes... jus how dus.. "leave me alone" contrib 2 world unity??? Can c ways in wich it mite..but its a bit skimpy as a statement...

[Bluebiyou]

Fran,
I think it's a trust in the universal nurturing and caring of man.
By 'leave me alone' I don't think isolation is suggested, just non-prejudice. A 'do no harm' Hypocrates guide.
Of course, the sociopath element, as well as ignorance element are formidable opposition to this faith.
Indeed, nice caring people can be a large part of a 'human machine' that does evil... Just look at the 3rd Reich. When everyone puts on blinders, 'just doing my job'... and civil liberties are eroded away one little bit at a time...
Ohh... I'm getting a bit morose!

[diB4u]

Liking this thread!

What I would say is that with money, abolish the stupid people who give credit cards to people who just manage to make the minimum balance, let alone pay the stupid things off.

What is a decent wage? For me its to be able to pay off bills and have some money at the end of the week/mont etc, to save. Having a decent wage means that when say a credit card bill comes in you can afford to pay the whole thing off in 3 payments or less. Example you have a credit card and use it and spend lets say $1000 (or £1000) and can afford to pay £300 a month till its cleared.

Money doesnt buy happiness, but it pays the bills and gives people a social standing. Money is the route to all evil and for some total happiness.

:eek:

[vittoria]

Rule#5.

Determine DNA test for sociopathy and kill all newborns (preborn?) with said gene.
Sociopaths constitute 1-4% of the population, are responsible for the vast majority of woe in the world, and don't follow rules. Most of us know 1 or 2 sociopaths, we may not realize it.


By the way... notice the title is "Four Steps"...

Not "Four Rules"--

I noticed a LOT of people ( no offense) have transliterated this into a "rules" thing...

LMAO!!

Its more like a "Prime Directive" kind of thing... (For those that know and appreciate the meaning of such a fictional topic)..

As regards to money, I still maintain that it isnt the money in and of itself which causes strife amongst humanity, its the LOVE of money and the inherent greed that goes along with it.

Just some food for thought :tong:

[darkeyes]

As regards to money, I still maintain that it isnt the money in and of itself which causes strife amongst humanity, its the LOVE of money and the inherent greed that goes along with it.


Its long been a conundrum in me life that me loathes greed selfishness an everythin that goes wiv it save this.. like 2 hav fun, club, pub..triff hols.. like 2 look nice an dress 2 kill.. don like cheapo market clothes.. or shoes.. or undies.. perfumerie hasta b quality not Avon stinky stuff, an me likes luffly jewellery.. not duff imitation .. alla this takes money an wile in time wud luff nowt betta than 2 c it vanish.. if me is greedy in ne way it is that me has a materialism that is a lil at odds wiv me ideals... no not a lil...quite a lot. Am not huge inta havin all mod cons at 'ome, tho woteva we hav needs 2 b paid for..an ther gain woteva we hav ..me likes it 2 b gud quality.. Kate certainly dus an all.. an help make our house not look like a hovel.

So am not 2 greedy bout the home..tho it hasta b nice an cumfy an cosy..am spoilt an greedy bout me personal appearance an hav always wanted the werwithall 2 make sure that that cant b faulted..least not in me own opinion..like wot me likes an like 2 hav an look it...

Am an idealist sure..an hav passions for those ideals.. but am no saint bout bein materialistic ..even me is a selfish greedy cow bout sum things... it pricks me conscience but afraid on this me conscience hasta b locked up in its box..:(

[Bluebiyou]

...Am an idealist sure..an hav passions for those ideals.. but am no saint bout bein materialistic ..even me is a selfish greedy cow bout sum things... it pricks me conscience but afraid on this me conscience hasta b locked up in its box..:(

MMMMFFFFF!!!!!
MUST........... NOT........... MUST.......... NOT........ MISCONSTRUE FRANS........OBVIOUS ......... WORD CHOICE......... INTO ........SEXUAL INNUENDO....... MUST ........ NOT.....
OKAY...... BITE...... TONGUE...... NOW......

:banghead::tongue::eek::tongue::banghead:

[darkeyes]

MMMMFFFFF!!!!!
MUST........... NOT........... MUST.......... NOT........ MISCONSTRUE FRANS........OBVIOUS ......... WORD CHOICE......... INTO ........SEXUAL INNUENDO....... MUST ........ NOT.....
OKAY...... BITE...... TONGUE...... NOW......

:banghead::tongue::eek::tongue::banghead:
bitin ya tongue a tad painful blue... sexual innuendo?? moi?? not on ur nellie!!!:tong: Well me tells fibs an all..:bigrin: But ere?? nun intended...:tongue:

[Bluebiyou]

...an hav passions .... but am no saint... it pricks me conscience... but afraid on this me conscience hasta b locked up in its box..:(

Hey Fran! :)
Can I come by and prick your conscience some time (the one you keep in your box)? :bigrin::eek::bigrin:

[darkeyes]

Hey Fran! :)
Can I come by and prick your conscience some time (the one you keep in your box)? :bigrin::eek::bigrin:
Mayb Mrs Blue cud cum an spend a few hours dallyin... u can keep urs in ya drawers!:tong:

[elian]

Oh dear, oh dear - I don't like the naughty things that money does to a society either - but it's very difficult for me to imagine a society that DOESN'T have to compete for the scarce resources on this planet - hence the big emphasis on programming kids to compete instead of cooperate. Over and above that we have human emotional drives to worry about.

The reason pure capitalism doesn't work is because people take offense, sometimes very harshly when you start treating EVERYTHING including PEOPLE as widgets that are affected by the market. PEOPLE start resenting the loyal years of service they've given the system and do things like find semi-automatic weapons.

Pure socialism doesn't really work either - everybody is supposed to work for the good of the collective however it is human nature that there are always some LAZY people who are trying to figure out just how much they can NOT do and still get away with it...these people are sometimes GENIUSES at figuring out how to abuse the system - if they would apply that creative reasoning to a positive, productive use we all might be astounded - who is to judge positive and productive though?

It would take a quantum leap in thinking to jump to something like "The Federation" of Star Trek fictional fame - a lot of people have a lot of vested interest in not letting that happen..not all of the reasons are logical. Humans can use logic to sugarcoat and justify things, but they aren't always truly motivated by logic.


vitt hon,

My wife and I have talked about this at length on numerous occasions. Here's a real simple way to bring peace.

Abolish money.

Folks would still work. They'd simply do what they loved doing for the sake of doing it. And they'd strive to do well at it because everyone could go out and get a free education and build rocket ships. Without money there's no one better or worse as far as opportunity, it becomes a truly level field.

And food safety would be ensured because most involved in major food industries would abide by the family rule. In case you've never been in such an industry the family is looking at the food product and asking yourself, "would I feed this to my family?" Of course there's also the me rule, "would i eat this?"

Without money doctors would keep you well and not be bound by obligations to pharma companies.

And a lot of religions might probably cease to exist without money. After all if there's no money, what are their gods going to ask for?

But then how would folks come up with a system value, you may wonder.

Well, barter does work out nicely. But folks would want a fair universal standard. And you may suggest that might lead back to money. Why could we not establish local councils to 'fix' hourly money.

For example in say London everyone agrees to abide their council's ruling that one hour of work equates to roughly $10 USD. Okay, say a common shirt cost maybe three minutes of work given the industrial equipment they use in making them. You could break down the cost of a minute. So a shirt might cost $0.30 at 10 cents a minute of making time.

And each locality could have it's own rates, and still have one 'universal' rate all over the world. All the localities and districts could vote for a global council to 'fix the universal rate'. And folks could buy, sell, trade either on the Local rate, or Universal rate. Sellers could ask for whichever rate they chose, more than likely asking the higher rate. That would still be fair to everyone.

And yes it may appear to be a form of money. But it really isn't money so much as the values clearly expressed, which was what money was supposed to symbolize anyway. Somehow that got lost in translation.

Oh yeah, absolute power did it. Well, if there's no money there's not much need in governance. Sure we'd need basic well being sort of things on local levels, but there would be no need of invasive government. No need for war.

So, if we abolish money we might get there. Merely our humbled :2cents:.

[elian]

Oh wait, I guess my overt fascination with the interaction between technology, people and society throughout history is finally paying off - quick does anyone have Alex Trebek's phone number - I need to get some tickets to Jeopardy.

[darkeyes]

Oh dear, oh dear - I don't like the naughty things that money does to a society either - but it's very difficult for me to imagine a society that DOESN'T have to compete for the scarce resources on this planet - hence the big emphasis on programming kids to compete instead of cooperate. Over and above that we have human emotional drives to worry about.

The reason pure capitalism doesn't work is because people take offense, sometimes very harshly when you start treating EVERYTHING including PEOPLE as widgets that are affected by the market. PEOPLE start resenting the loyal years of service they've given the system and do things like find semi-automatic weapons.

Pure socialism doesn't really work either - everybody is supposed to work for the good of the collective however it is human nature that there are always some LAZY people who are trying to figure out just how much they can NOT do and still get away with it...these people are sometimes GENIUSES at figuring out how to abuse the system - if they would apply that creative reasoning to a positive, productive use we all might be astounded - who is to judge positive and productive though?

It would take a quantum leap in thinking to jump to something like "The Federation" of Star Trek fictional fame - a lot of people have a lot of vested interest in not letting that happen..not all of the reasons are logical. Humans can use logic to sugarcoat and justify things, but they aren't always truly motivated by logic.
Not gonna go inta the socialist thingie 2 much Elian hun.. ur argument presupposes that human kind will neva allow it cosa the selfishness an greed thing.. me a lil more optimistic bout our species.. 'mazin thing evolution (unless yas a monkey trial prosecutor an the like).. species evolve an change.. mayb we will becum mature enuff for a socialist utopia..mayb not.. neitha u or me will eva kno.. but me dus me bit 2 try an achieve it...believe in humanity ultimately doin all luffly sortsa things.. tho most peeps jus think me has me head in cloud cuckoo land... personally for alla the poop wich exists in the world me reckons such is the progress humankind has made ova the millenia that there enuff evidence 2 back me up at least in part...

1 area wer me thinks the evidence baks me up is in the very "Start Trek Federation" idea yas talkin bout.. few thousand years ago mankind wandered round huntin an gatherin in lil groups.. then our ancestors learned 2 farm an lil groups became static an began 2 becum lil bit bigga.. clans tribes call em wotya will.. slowly they evolved inta large settlements an then city states wich in time became nation states, an then loose alliances, titer alliances (tradin partnerships as much as for warfare),confederations an federations.. the US is jus such a place, as is Canada, Australia, Russia, me own country in its own way bein 4 countries in 1 state an lotsa otha places.. in Europe ther is movement through the EU 2 becum jus such a federation an in many ways that's jus wot it is... sure there r vested interests wich fite gainst the very idea a nations an peoples changin an mergin an unitin an federatin.. but its been happnin for thousands a years.. an it will keep on happnin.. wetha its dun rite.. that's anotha matta.. there will b huge probs along the way..massive cock ups an struggles.. but it will go on as it always has... cooperation tween peoples is a brill thing.. betta than the alternative.. an narrow nationalist military or economic vested interests shudn b allowed 2 stand in the way.. an unltimately.. so long as we survive as a species..they won b allowed 2..

Aint it fun the way threads take on ther own life?? tee hee:tong:

[elian]

I hope with all my heart that we DO get there fran dear - I haven't given up on it - sometimes the dream of people working together for better than worse is the only thing that KEEPS me going in this world.

If I seem a little cynical all the pendulum swinging just gets a bit tedious at times..there is a reason for it I know - I have to be patient - imagine what would've happened if Hitler could have had his way in an instant - there is a reason changes evolve over time - like ripples in a pond perhaps. It's a little frustrating knowing that people seem to have short memories.

[darkeyes]

Dreams me has a plenty Elian me luffly.. an will hold on 2 em till me drops.. but even me gets down an frustrated bout things.. but the dream remains..
Kismet hun... woteva will b... but wen it cums 2 Hitlers.. always been sum 1 like im an they will keep poppin up an bein shitty an peeps will suffer.. but ya kno wot? They keep gettin knocked down..mite take 13 months years or centuries.. ther crap is but transient...

[JoeErl]

vitt hon,

My wife and I have talked about this at length on numerous occasions. Here's a real simple way to bring peace.

Abolish money.

Folks would still work. They'd simply do what they loved doing for the sake of doing it. And they'd strive to do well at it because everyone could go out and get a free education and build rocket ships. Without money there's no one better or worse as far as opportunity, it becomes a truly level field.

And food safety would be ensured because most involved in major food industries would abide by the family rule. In case you've never been in such an industry the family is looking at the food product and asking yourself, "would I feed this to my family?" Of course there's also the me rule, "would i eat this?"

Without money doctors would keep you well and not be bound by obligations to pharma companies.

And a lot of religions might probably cease to exist without money. After all if there's no money, what are their gods going to ask for?

But then how would folks come up with a system value, you may wonder.

Well, barter does work out nicely. But folks would want a fair universal standard. And you may suggest that might lead back to money. Why could we not establish local councils to 'fix' hourly money.

For example in say London everyone agrees to abide their council's ruling that one hour of work equates to roughly $10 USD. Okay, say a common shirt cost maybe three minutes of work given the industrial equipment they use in making them. You could break down the cost of a minute. So a shirt might cost $0.30 at 10 cents a minute of making time.

And each locality could have it's own rates, and still have one 'universal' rate all over the world. All the localities and districts could vote for a global council to 'fix the universal rate'. And folks could buy, sell, trade either on the Local rate, or Universal rate. Sellers could ask for whichever rate they chose, more than likely asking the higher rate. That would still be fair to everyone.

And yes it may appear to be a form of money. But it really isn't money so much as the values clearly expressed, which was what money was supposed to symbolize anyway. Somehow that got lost in translation.

Oh yeah, absolute power did it. Well, if there's no money there's not much need in governance. Sure we'd need basic well being sort of things on local levels, but there would be no need of invasive government. No need for war.

So, if we abolish money we might get there. Merely our humbled :2cents:.

Sad to say - this is not Star Trek where they do not use money. Nor is it the movies. Let's be realistic for a second. How many people would continue working if there were no money? Would you be the farmer who would go out into the field to grow the crops. What would your job be? How much time would you want off, etc. Very complicated. Just had to insert my :2cents:

[vitt&cho]

Sad to say - this is not Star Trek where they do not use money. Nor is it the movies. Let's be realistic for a second. How many people would continue working if there were no money? Would you be the farmer who would go out into the field to grow the crops. What would your job be? How much time would you want off, etc. Very complicated. Just had to insert my :2cents:


I think the point might be ( I could be wrong) that if people could depend on themselves primarily, and then ALSO realize that we all need each other in beneficial ways ( since we can all learn from each other to survive... see alleged stories of how the settlers of the 'new world' learned from the native tribes how to survive-- all without MONEY~~ o wait.. the native peoples of this land didnt use money either ;) ), we can be better than the chasing after bits of paper...

And what a bitter form of slavery THAT is!

[void()]

People would still work. The thing being they would actually work at what they loved to do. Time off? Any time they wished really. But, i doubt many would suffer much time away from work. Aw shoot here we are.

Farmer Joe grows turnips. He loves growing turnips.

Down the road Farmer Sam grows turnips. He loves growing them, too.

Which turnips are best? That would depend on the buyer's taste. And both farmers would strive to produce the best turnips. Word of mouth travels fast.

"Farmer Joe has the best turnips. Last week, as I'm a fisherman, I traded him a bushel of mackerel for a bushel of turnips."

"Wow! You think he'd appreciate new siding on his house? I side houses. We could really eat some turnips in my family."

"Nah, Tim the sider gave his house new siding last week."

"Tim's siding is cheap."

Which brings up durable goods. They'd actually be made to be durable, instead of wal-mart *cough* buy a new mower every year bullshit*cough*.

Why? Because people would demand better products, there would be more of a market base to choose from, more competition in a way. But, using barter would help level the keel a bit.

It is not a utopia, nor intended to be. Perfection allows imperfection, else there exists nothing and nothing is created from nothing.

And no, it's not Star Trek. Too many folks are afraid, still. Fear leads to hate and degradation. It's like anal, don't knock it until you try it.

I see your :2cents: and give you another :2cents:, maybe we'll eventually get a nickle. They got bubble gum that costs ten cents a piece now. That's only four nickles for us to each have a piece.

[vittoria]

It would be about cooperation instead of competition ...

Hell let everyone grow their own food! If one doesnt know how.. Farmer Joe up the street would be happy to help get them started...

We can learn best from each other when we arent trying to kill each other... how can we glean any knowledge if they're wiped off the face of the earth?

[Bluebiyou]

Mayb Mrs Blue cud cum an spend a few hours dallyin... u can keep urs in ya drawers!:tong:

..just as long as I can watch! :)

Now, if I can convince Mrs. Blue to cross the Atlantic... I'll have to work on that! LOL

[darkeyes]

..just as long as I can watch! :)

Now, if I can convince Mrs. Blue to cross the Atlantic... I'll have to work on that! LOL

Nope..soz..nunna that..u can sit in pub wiv me dad an bro an all the otha sad buggas an grumble bout how bad ya life is ova a pint...:tong:

[darkeyes]

..is luffly 2 kno sum peeps hav dreams worth dreamin still... ta V an co..ya don haff help restore a gals hopes for a betta world... even the odd spanner (like Joe) don dampen the dream... luffyas:bigrin:

[elian]

I have dreams, but I'm a realist too - I definitely think we can make the world better - but it's not gonna happen overnight. I have very conflicted feelings about this - I would love to live in a place where barter works best - I would have loved to learn to cooperate vs. compete because to be honest I would rather cooperate for mutual benefit than take things forcefully. I have bartered before - when there is a good match it works great. I still see a scarcity of resources problem - if nobody wants to be a doctor will we all get sick?

I've taken a walk in a place like that - they had technology for example - it was all over the place - but it was blended into the background - such tiny technology -it wasn't blaring in your face, oh my God I HAVE to take this call. It served a purpose - but it wasn't the center of life. The center of life in THAT society revolved around putting the emphasis on self, family, community. I was amazed to see and feel the difference between the two - then I woke up.

It is very difficult (I won't say impossible - if enough people want it some day it might evolve to be) - to imagine that type of place here. Right now people in the public sphere talk about "family values" - but they really mean something else - "Family is OK as long as it's my Norman Rockwell ideal of what a family should be." The whole mindset was just DIFFERENT. We are a very self centered arrogant culture - at least here in the US..people believe they are entitled to things just for being born - in a world without competition maybe they would be.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure competition is necessarily a bad thing - I don't like violence - but how do you know the value of something if you take it for granted?

I dunno - this is confusing - I need to close my open mind before it falls out..

[vittoria]

I have dreams, but I'm a realist too - I definitely think we can make the world better - but it's not gonna happen overnight. I have very conflicted feelings about this - I would love to live in a place where barter works best - I would have loved to learn to cooperate vs. compete because to be honest I would rather cooperate for mutual benefit than take things forcefully. I have bartered before - when there is a good match it works great. I still see a scarcity of resources problem - if nobody wants to be a doctor will we all get sick?

I've taken a walk in a place like that - they had technology for example - it was all over the place - but it was blended into the background - such tiny technology -it wasn't blaring in your face, oh my God I HAVE to take this call. It served a purpose - but it wasn't the center of life. The center of life in THAT society revolved around putting the emphasis on self, family, community. I was amazed to see and feel the difference between the two - then I woke up.

It is very difficult (I won't say impossible - if enough people want it some day it might evolve to be) - to imagine that type of place here. Right now people in the public sphere talk about "family values" - but they really mean something else - "Family is OK as long as it's my Norman Rockwell ideal of what a family should be." The whole mindset was just DIFFERENT. We are a very self centered arrogant culture - at least here in the US..people believe they are entitled to things just for being born - in a world without competition maybe they would be.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure competition is necessarily a bad thing - I don't like violence - but how do you know the value of something if you take it for granted?

I dunno - this is confusing - I need to close my open mind before it falls out..

Not having a "price" of monetary value doesnt decrease the import of anything--think about it--people have a hot commodity that they take for granted EVERY DAY called Life..the ability to move, breathe, think, hell even the ability to complain when they wake up in the morning! Doctors were never to put a price on health... then there were mob-based ( no offense to my brohim in the cosa nostra) insurance brought to bear-- and people who dont even have DOCTORATES place a value on a lung!!

tsk tsk!

greed is EVERYWHERE!!

[elian]

So you've seen SICKO too? <evil grin>

Funny that - there are LOT of people getting older and ready to retire, you would surely think there would be more urgency in finding a way to help them get the care they need to live healthy comfortable lives in the "golden years" - I guess there's always part time WAL*MART - or any job - just to get the health benefits..

[elian]

Dreams me has a plenty Elian me luffly.. an will hold on 2 em till me drops.. but even me gets down an frustrated bout things.. but the dream remains..
Kismet hun... woteva will b... but wen it cums 2 Hitlers.. always been sum 1 like im an they will keep poppin up an bein shitty an peeps will suffer.. but ya kno wot? They keep gettin knocked down..mite take 13 months years or centuries.. ther crap is but transient...

When I was a young teen trying to find my way in the world - believing that people would think less of me because I wasn't aggressive and competitive like a "real man" I became infatuated with this quote from Mahatma Gandhi -

"When I despair...I remember that all through history, the way of truth and love has always won. There have been murderers and tyrants, and for a time they can seem invincible. But in the end they always fall. Think of it ... always. "

I'm not sure why, facing those feelings I chose to find solace in that particular quote. Maybe because I'm not too fond of hate crime - seething - disgusting garbage - elevates self, profits off of the misery of others..sort of like being raped - only even worse...all that potential - gone.

Not that it's ever happened to me - but I have a vivid imagination - knowing that others have killed themselves, or had their lives taken for just being who they are - loving people who deserved a chance to make a difference - strikes a particular chord on my nerves.

[Falke]

Oh dear, oh dear - I don't like the naughty things that money does to a society either - but it's very difficult for me to imagine a society that DOESN'T have to compete for the scarce resources on this planet - hence the big emphasis on programming kids to compete instead of cooperate. Over and above that we have human emotional drives to worry about.

The reason pure capitalism doesn't work is because people take offense, sometimes very harshly when you start treating EVERYTHING including PEOPLE as widgets that are affected by the market. PEOPLE start resenting the loyal years of service they've given the system and do things like find semi-automatic weapons.

Pure socialism doesn't really work either - everybody is supposed to work for the good of the collective however it is human nature that there are always some LAZY people who are trying to figure out just how much they can NOT do and still get away with it...these people are sometimes GENIUSES at figuring out how to abuse the system - if they would apply that creative reasoning to a positive, productive use we all might be astounded - who is to judge positive and productive though?

It would take a quantum leap in thinking to jump to something like "The Federation" of Star Trek fictional fame - a lot of people have a lot of vested interest in not letting that happen..not all of the reasons are logical. Humans can use logic to sugarcoat and justify things, but they aren't always truly motivated by logic.

I was going to say just that. As I recall Communism was supposed to work in this way. Abolish the class, abolish the cash, and everyone carries their weight. However, as was brought up before... Human nature kills any possibility of this ever happening outside a very small commune and even then it can be touch and go at times.

Funny enough, the only real way to get humanity to bond into a single utopian society is via force. Either wipe out all clans against your ideas, *Not practical due to the fact it is nearly impossible to form a group of people without some form of conflict* or force everyone to hold hands,smile, and supress all free thought 1984 style...or else. In reality, I would rather be dead than to live in a civilization like that.

[darkeyes]

Funny enough, the only real way to get humanity to bond into a single utopian society is via force. Either wipe out all clans against your ideas, *Not practical due to the fact it is nearly impossible to form a group of people without some form of conflict* or force everyone to hold hands,smile, and supress all free thought 1984 style...or else. In reality, I would rather be dead than to live in a civilization like that.

The creation a the EU puts that 2 bed.. 26 nations voluntarily movin 2 ward eva gr8ter unity.. nations wich for centuries hav been the mos ancient a enemies..sure it has its detractors an opponents an is imperfect but it is a free an peaceful movement a peoples toward a single federal state... substantially, the US is jus such a state created (not wivout hiccups.. the civil war for instance) peacefully since the end a the revolutionary war.... Australia is a federal state created outa ole brit colonies... as is Canada (Quebec notwithstandin).. throughout history ther r examples a nations unitin not through war but peacefully.. the union of Scotland an England for 1 wich ended 300 years a war tween the 2 countries.. sure nunna this reflects utopia but it dus reflect the desire a peoples 2 live in peace an create a betta safer an more peaceful world..

Ther r otha movements across the globe a nations tryin 2 work togetha an create similar tradin partnerships 2 the EU.. am not sayin they r intended 2 go as far as the EU..least not yet.. but the EU evolved in time by a recognition that "we can do betta than make trade easier an betta..." Mayb these otha movements will go the same way..suspect at least in time sum will.. they won do it the same way as the EU but they will do it 2 meet ther needs an who knos do it a bloody site betta an less burocratic..

Am not sayin that ther won b many attempts wich will end up in bloody conflict... hav no doubt ther will.. but believe enuff that our kind will recognise the necessity for cooperation an ultimate unity that in time it will unite in a more or less peaceful an voluntary manner.. Utopia afta a few millenia mayb will cum lata...

[GreenEyedLady(GEL)]

Abolishin money has always made sense 2 me.. but like many otha ideals its a long way off... doubt if ne of us will b bout 2 c it.... an not 2 sure wot u suggestin is actually abolition a money reelly but mite b worth bearin in mind...

Tho mus admit.. shoppin wudn b near so much fun wivout it....:bigrin:

Fran darling, if money was abolished how would you be able to go on your shopping sprees ? :tongue:

[darkeyes]

Fran darling, if money was abolished how would you be able to go on your shopping sprees ? :tongue:

Scary GEL babes... not same as goin shoppin showin off ya new gear an sayin.."Look at this dress..innit gorge..cost me 140 quid".. sayin..*look at this new dress..free 2 gud 'ome".. God.. no fun in that..... almost like the free hand me downs from me big sista wen me wos wee.. eeeeeeeeeeek:eek:

[Minxy]

1) Leave me alone.


Most people would like to be left alone. They dont want to be bothered
with BS, let alone anyone elses.


2) Dont mess with my food.


Most people would like their food supply to be safe. They want to eat.



3) Dont mess with my money.


Most people would like their money safe. Hell, most people want to make a
decent living wage, and not have their money donated to life ending
things like ... um lets say, WAR


4) Dont blow me up.


Most people dont like the idea of worrying what country is going to invade
and blow them up at any given time. I believe if everyone wore a
"NOT WITH STUPID" tshirt that has a picture of the person who's fault
the entire shittin thing is, then that would narrow down who should, and
who should NOT get blown to bits. I know I like living... and I believe
so does the next broke human.



If we all remember that most people on this planet have those 4 basic things in common, the world would be a better place. Just my :2cents:
it wud be nice if life was simple but agghhh people like to make life hard work

[inohio]

[QUOTE=void_dweller;110603]People would still work. The thing being they would actually work at what they loved to do. Time off? Any time they wished really. But, i doubt many would suffer much time away from work. Aw shoot here we are.
QUOTE]

Who is going to be a garbage collector, a maid, septic tank cleaner, or any number of nasty jobs? NOBODY grows up and just desires to do these things more than any other job. Sure, some people may take pride in their work if that is what they do. If paying the rent every month wasn't the driving factor in having the job, who would choose to go to those jobs?

[darkeyes]

[QUOTE=void_dweller;110603]People would still work. The thing being they would actually work at what they loved to do. Time off? Any time they wished really. But, i doubt many would suffer much time away from work. Aw shoot here we are.
QUOTE]

Who is going to be a garbage collector, a maid, septic tank cleaner, or any number of nasty jobs? NOBODY grows up and just desires to do these things more than any other job. Sure, some people may take pride in their work if that is what they do. If paying the rent every month wasn't the driving factor in having the job, who would choose to go to those jobs?A maid??? As in a servant??? Jeez.. think we shud b long past that then... bloody hope so ne ways.. an no butlin eitha an otha such skivvy jobs... but bout the otha things yas talkin bout hun think technology will hav moved long a bit by then an most of em if not all won b needed..an even if they r, abolition a money means livin in a propa community wer evry 1 pulls togetha an will help each otha an take ther turns at doin woteva jobs reely need dun.. wer shortages a expertise exist..we talkin bout long time ahead babes..not today or tomoz or even next year or next century.. world will b a far far different place... bloody hope so ne way cos this 1 is beautiful an wonderful but sadly..is also in many ways shite.. don think 2008..think afta yas dead n gone.. 3008..if we lukky.. weneva..its gonna b long way away but its anotha dream..