A Question about the Debate

[Toad82]

I am now rewatching the debate and I was just wondering if anyone has the total count of things that Sen. Obama doesn’t know or understand? :tong:

[captslaprock]

IT'S CALLED EXPERIENCE.....I THINK HE NEEDS MORE

[darkeyes]

Very true..so when he wins in November he will get it won't he...:bigrin::tong:

[lsd51]

Obama does understand that a leader needs sound judgement about STRATEGIC uses of American military power. He will make a thoughtful and effective leader.

[12voltman59]

John McCain had more than his share of lapses of knowledge, confusion and downright misrepresenting the facts--which Obama had his share as well--with this debate--like the race in general and the way the electorate is----it was pretty much a wash with no clear "winner" and for those in the respective choirs of McCain and Obama their responses predictably were--"our guy did what he needed to do and he won!"

The overnight polls of the way people felt about the debate was pretty much a wash, as was what the talking heads had to say about it---the one telling poll though--I believe they said it was a CBS News/NY Times poll of "independent voters"----they came out thinking Obama had "won" the debate over McCain by a margin well beyond the poll's margin of error.

There is no doubt--in terms of memorable presidential debates--this one won't make the cut.

It was pretty well ho-hum.

[Toad82]

Seems to me Sen. McCain needs to learn the difference between not knowing or understanding something versus someone not agreeing with him was my point. He was acting like Sen. Obama was a kid and he was the grandfather that knows everything.

[wolfcamp]

McCain had 2 or 3 simple mantras that he kept reciting over and over, based on the idea that if you tell people something enough times, they start to believe it.

[Toad82]

We are in the age of the sound bite!

[12voltman59]

We are in the age of the sound bite!

Not only that--we are in the age of "I will drink my Kool-Aide to create my world view and your drink yours so we won't agree that we are looking at the same set of facts and the same world the other sees--and--don't try to change my view of things--my mind is made up irrespective of the facts and/or what events take place--because we will sit and wait for the spin makers of our side to tell us what to say and regurgitate that slop!"

[HighEnergy]

Rude and condescending. Period.

W has screwed up enough of the world's good will towards us. Can you imagine what McCain talking to another leader would do?

[rissababynta]

i missed it cause my baby wouldn't go to sleep...from what you guys are saying though, now i'm just going to have to youtube it out of curiosity...

[Bluebiyou]

McCain was better prepared, it seemed to me, but Obama held up well under the attacks. I'm disappointed for McCain's (less-than-on-the-same-level) attacks. McCain is a better debater (using both the traditional school of debate and the Cartman philosophy of debate), but that doesn't make him a better leader.
Even though I like McCain more, and think him a better leader (and in spite of interviews, Palin also, the eventual president), from what I've read so far... I'll bet on Obama as a wildcard... for radical liberal change. McCain has a billion patriotic brownie points with me (especially his POW experience); but
I do think Obama is more Libertarian (my true color) than McCain .
But perhaps I'll think more on it... as who will be the best leader (not necessarily the most aggressive debater) through the next depression (the one that we're starting now).
Keep eyes and ears open, ignore the mud... listen to what is being positively said...
I've never voted Democrat before in my life, but I might now.

[FalconAngel]

I watched the dabate and while both made salient points, McCain came out with more disinformation about Obama's voting record, whic was immediately shot down and clarified. When Obama did the same, McCain either couldn't or didn't shoot down what was said about his voting record.

I am glad that he said "I voted against bill X for this reason....". It lets me know where the man's priorities lie. He wants what's best, but not at the expense of the people.

As far as Palin, even the Republican insiders are talking about dumping her. One even said that the people are losing confidence in a presidential candidate that can't even pick a competent VP for themselves. They make a good point. How can you make good decisions for the country when you can't even make a good decision on who should be your VP.
Being pretty doesn't mean squat when you have to run the country; which she will have to do, eventually, if we are unfortunate enough to get McCain in the White House.
After all, McCain is almost 80. If he gets elected, he will turn 80 while in office, if his heart holds out that long through the stress. Do we really want to take the risk?

[vittoria]

...the Cartman philosophy of debate...

Cartman... from South Park?

Is that... "Whateva! I do what I want!!" Cartman, or the "Screw you guys... I'm going home" Cartman? :tong:

;)

[Bluebiyou]

Cartman: [enters] It's okay, I'm here.
Wendy: [glares at him for a few seconds] Nice of you to show up! We were just discussing how we should state our case.
Cartman: [begins pacing] Yes. This is a difficult case. In order to win the debate, we will need to attack Stan and Kyle's credibility.
Wendy: [stunned] What??
Cartman: That's how you win these things: attack your opponents' credibility! [starts barking orders] Butters! Take some kids and go dig up whatever dirt you can on Kyle's past. I'm talkin' booby magazines, whatever.
Butters: Wwuhuh-o-kay! [hops off his chair. Wendy watches him leave]
Cartman: The rest of you, go get the goods on Stan! His mom grounded him once for setting something on fire. Let's find out what that something was, and then lie and say it was a puppy.
Clyde: Right. [the others disperse, leaving Wendy and Cartman facing each other at the round table.]
Cartman: [takes out some Cheesy Poofs] Mmmm.
Wendy: [walks up to him] Cartman, we can't just attack Stan and Kyle's credibility. We need to present our side of the debate.
Cartman: You're right. We'll need to look like we prepared a case, too, so that they look all the weaker. Good plan. Sooo, what's the issue again?
Wendy: The South Park flag!
Cartman: Interesting. Aaand, what side are we on?
Wendy: D'aaaaahhh!

[BronzeBobby]

I am now rewatching the debate and I was just wondering if anyone has the total count of things that Sen. Obama doesn’t know or understand? :tong:

I don't have an exact count, Toad, but here are some things I'd point out --

*Obama is lying about this figure of 95% of Americans getting a tax break. It simply isn't true according to any reasonable analysis.

*Obama does not understand that as President he would have to pass his tax plan by Congress, and there is no way to know how big the GDP will be, so it is impossible to make these promises about who's going to get what.

*Obama doesn't understand that if you tax corporations, you slow down the economy and everybody is "taxed" by the downturn in business activity.

*Obama doesn't understand that the middle class people he keeps on defending are just as likely to be greedy, delusional, or generally cutthroat, as rich people -- as the mortgage crisis proves -- so this bogus sympathy for people who "just want to get their kid a new computer" is ridiculous.

*Obama doesn't understand that John McCain is nothing like Bush and those of us who have followed his career have a long list of memories where the two men clashed. If the Democrats repeat that stupid 90% voting record line one more time I'm going to become violent.

*Obama doesn't understand that the Democrats were the ones who created Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac based on the same GSE half public/half private model that Obama is not putting forward for universal health care. Yikes!

*Obama doesn't understand that Freddie and Fannie Mae, and much of the mortgage industry, have been heavily regulated by things like Equal Housing Laws, which forbade them from discriminating against people for having bad credit, and which led to this mess!

*Obama doesn't understand that the human race has not evolved with the purpose of having a government intervene to alleviate all forms of discomfort from not being able to pay for an overpriced house to not being able to live until the age of 90 with diseases that can only be treated with treatments too expensive for a mortal society to finance.

*Obama doesn't understand that he will not be able to roll back a deficit by taxing only families with over $250,000 a year.

*Obama doesn't understand (or maybe does but won't admit) that he's being bankrolled by Old Money families because people with huge trust funds don't "earn" $250,000 a year in taxable income -- such incomes are earned by people who have largely worked hard to reach such a salary level (the "new rich" who are largely supporting McCain).

*Obama doesn't know anything useful about foreign policy. I won't get into his defeatism about Iraq, his demagogic claims to be antiwar while threatening to fire on Pakistani soil (and his apparent lack of understanding that Pakistan is a huge country with nuclear weapons and an ally we need), or his delusional beliefs that if he talks to Iran and North Korea somehow they will give up making nuclear weapons and embrace Jeffersonian democracy.

*Obama doesn't seem to understand that he is proposing to do in Afghanistan the expensive, controversial, and perhaps imprudent course Bush took in Iraq -- nation building and escalation, based on a perceived threat that will probably be proved wrong later on. (I.e., there were no WMDs in Iraq, and I bet you in 2020 we will have learned that there not the raging al qaeda units in the Afghan hinterlands needing 5 brigades sent immediately.) Obama also doesn't seem to get that his famous antiwar speech in 2002, if applied to Afghanistan, should probably behoove him not to propose what he is proposing in Afghanistan.

*Obama doesn't understand that the statement "we are less safe because of Bush's policies" is contradicted by the fact that we have not been attacked since 2001.

*Obama doesn't understand that Bill Clinton's budget "surplus" is half owing to the fact that he defunded the military to dangerously low levels, partly owing to the fact that he had a Republican congress, and partly owing to the fact that Baby Boomers weren't retiring yet and the Social Security fund was swollen and inflating the budget numbers.

*Obama chooses not to discuss the fact that his policy package -- high unionization, demonization of corporations, high regulation, high taxes on the rich, high entitlements, and laissezfaire social attitudes -- is NOT new. It is NOT untested. It has been tested and proved WRONG in countless urban centers from Detroit to Newark to his own dear Chicago. This is what America will look like.

The fact that 58% of Americans believe Obama won the Friday debate goes to show that the United States is, at last, not an intelligent country.

I will get up in November to vote, but I have no illusions that McCain will win. This is a huge train wreck.

[orpheus_lost]

Couldn't you have saved yourself a whole lot of time and just linked to Rush Limbaugh's website? :tong:

Seriously though, your entire list is filled with opinions that you have absolutely no independent backup for (and no, Sean Hannity and Glen Beck aren't independent). It's just a jumble of blaming everyone but those who have created the mess were in today (minorities, the poor, Democrats, unions, the elderly...). It's amazing how some people are so easily duped into believing that those with the least power are somehow able to bend those with the most power to their will. In your description, it seems that ultra-wealthy, white Republicans are being discriminated against and need protection. lol

It's a strange world in which we actually blame the powerless for creating the ills of a society while the powerful are seen as victims.


I don't have an exact count, Toad, but here are some things I'd point out --

*Obama is lying about this figure of 95% of Americans getting a tax break. It simply isn't true according to any reasonable analysis.

*Obama does not understand that as President he would have to pass his tax plan by Congress, and there is no way to know how big the GDP will be, so it is impossible to make these promises about who's going to get what.

*Obama doesn't understand that if you tax corporations, you slow down the economy and everybody is "taxed" by the downturn in business activity.

*Obama doesn't understand that the middle class people he keeps on defending are just as likely to be greedy, delusional, or generally cutthroat, as rich people -- as the mortgage crisis proves -- so this bogus sympathy for people who "just want to get their kid a new computer" is ridiculous.

*Obama doesn't understand that John McCain is nothing like Bush and those of us who have followed his career have a long list of memories where the two men clashed. If the Democrats repeat that stupid 90% voting record line one more time I'm going to become violent.

*Obama doesn't understand that the Democrats were the ones who created Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac based on the same GSE half public/half private model that Obama is not putting forward for universal health care. Yikes!

*Obama doesn't understand that Freddie and Fannie Mae, and much of the mortgage industry, have been heavily regulated by things like Equal Housing Laws, which forbade them from discriminating against people for having bad credit, and which led to this mess!

*Obama doesn't understand that the human race has not evolved with the purpose of having a government intervene to alleviate all forms of discomfort from not being able to pay for an overpriced house to not being able to live until the age of 90 with diseases that can only be treated with treatments too expensive for a mortal society to finance.

*Obama doesn't understand that he will not be able to roll back a deficit by taxing only families with over $250,000 a year.

*Obama doesn't understand (or maybe does but won't admit) that he's being bankrolled by Old Money families because people with huge trust funds don't "earn" $250,000 a year in taxable income -- such incomes are earned by people who have largely worked hard to reach such a salary level (the "new rich" who are largely supporting McCain).

*Obama doesn't know anything useful about foreign policy. I won't get into his defeatism about Iraq, his demagogic claims to be antiwar while threatening to fire on Pakistani soil (and his apparent lack of understanding that Pakistan is a huge country with nuclear weapons and an ally we need), or his delusional beliefs that if he talks to Iran and North Korea somehow they will give up making nuclear weapons and embrace Jeffersonian democracy.

*Obama doesn't seem to understand that he is proposing to do in Afghanistan the expensive, controversial, and perhaps imprudent course Bush took in Iraq -- nation building and escalation, based on a perceived threat that will probably be proved wrong later on. (I.e., there were no WMDs in Iraq, and I bet you in 2020 we will have learned that there not the raging al qaeda units in the Afghan hinterlands needing 5 brigades sent immediately.) Obama also doesn't seem to get that his famous antiwar speech in 2002, if applied to Afghanistan, should probably behoove him not to propose what he is proposing in Afghanistan.

*Obama doesn't understand that the statement "we are less safe because of Bush's policies" is contradicted by the fact that we have not been attacked since 2001.

*Obama doesn't understand that Bill Clinton's budget "surplus" is half owing to the fact that he defunded the military to dangerously low levels, partly owing to the fact that he had a Republican congress, and partly owing to the fact that Baby Boomers weren't retiring yet and the Social Security fund was swollen and inflating the budget numbers.

*Obama chooses not to discuss the fact that his policy package -- high unionization, demonization of corporations, high regulation, high taxes on the rich, high entitlements, and laissezfaire social attitudes -- is NOT new. It is NOT untested. It has been tested and proved WRONG in countless urban centers from Detroit to Newark to his own dear Chicago. This is what America will look like.

The fact that 58% of Americans believe Obama won the Friday debate goes to show that the United States is, at last, not an intelligent country.

I will get up in November to vote, but I have no illusions that McCain will win. This is a huge train wreck.

[elmwood7]

The sad truth of the matter is that in this country which I served in the marine corp. for 4 years to protect your rights and security, most people either aren't smart enough or don't pay enough attention to government policy, foreign policy or economic policies to know enough to make an informed decision about who should run this country. And like it or not, If most americans were honest about it they would know I'm right. We become complacent and too busy with or day to day lives to keep up with the bigger picture. I as always at election time, pray we make the right choices because ultimately it's our children and our childrens children who must live by our decisions. And that my friends is the most important thing to remember.

[AFTER9]

I watched the debate on this obscure sattelite channel called CURRENTTV it featured text messages by viewers crawling along the bottom. I liked some of their comments way better than that of the "Talking Heads"
I'll declare both Obama and McCain winners of the debate because at least neither one was smirking ;)

[Ninnian]

I had to give up on wathcing teh deabte - it wa sso horridly without fact.Both Obama and McCain give me pause, tho Obama frightens me more.

As a Libertarian, I guess I'll vote for the guy who wasn't there. There are no perfect candidates.. *shrug* gah... what a mess. So many uniformed voters.

[Bluebiyou]

Technically, I think Nixon had better points, but Kennedy was much more handsome and had better "sound bites".

[vittoria]

Think Hawkeye Pierce of M*A*S*H singing...

"I got you..... under my skin.... I got you.... deep in the heart of meeeeeee"

LMAO! Humans are interesting!

[vittoria]

Obama's "I has a bracelet" tangent during the debate was idiotic and pointless.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art4/0924082obama1a.gif

Obama is just as bad as the neocons like Bush and Palin but he just hides it better! ;)


┫　　｜　｜　　┣┓ ┏┓
┗┫━━　┃　━━┣┛ 　　┣┫
　┃　━━━━━　┃ 　┏┳┫┣┳┓　
　┗━━┳━┳━━┛ 　┃　　　　┃　
━━━━┃　┃　　　　　┗━┳┳━┛
━━━━┃　┗━━━━━━┛┃