Sharing an offensive poll...speak out!

[csrakate]

I am posting a link to a poll that was conducted on Eonline that someone shared on another site. It's by far one of the most offensive polls about bisexuality that I've seen lately and it's one that I think many of you would like to add comments to. While I don't actually lend much credibility to Eonline and especially not to the likes of Ted Casablanca and his "The Awful Truth" column, the simple fact that a gay man such as Casablanca can spew his biphobic attitude is something that needs a bit of rebuttal. I added my two cents (kate, comment 162) and I invite you to do the same if you are so inclined.

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/the_awful_truth/b63567_polling_all_body_parts.html#comments

[**Peg**]

with all due respect to YOU, kate, I won't even bother to dignify it with a response.

Peg

[csrakate]

with all due respect to YOU, kate, I won't even bother to dignify it with a response.

Peg

Which may explain why you are a much calmer and serene person than myself!! LOL!

[onewhocares]

I did comment as I could not let this insensitive loat get away with such actions.

Belle

[Sarasvati]

Don't begin to understand why anyone would be offended by this. I don't care what this person has said. How does it affect anyone?

Does the ninky nanky exist? Now this really does matter.
I want to know, I want to find out.

[csrakate]

Sarasvati,
What offends you and what may offend others may be totally different. Yes...I guess it's useless to get one's panties in a wad over a silly little column, but sometimes a person has to speak out when they feel an injustice has been done. Since this column has appeared, Ted has jumped on the Bisexual Bandwagon, claiming to be bisexual himself. His subsequent column in no way reflected a single bit of regret for upsetting so many. Instead, he slanted the "fault" towards the fans of Angelina Jolie, Lindsay Lohan and the myriad of celebrities he claims caused the backlash.

http://au.eonline.com/uberblog/the_awful_truth/b64269_morninig_piss_angelina_what_hath_you.html

Seems he claims he was being sarcastic, defending a life choice that he himself has made. That's fine and dandy if it is true, but it did not come out sounding that way and for once, he needs to realize that his words can hurt if not chosen more carefully. Sarcasm is a wonderful tool, I use it a great deal myself, but it needs to be used with care. I'm sorry, but I just didn't see the sarcasm in his column. Instead I saw someone chastising celebrities as well as others, for being able to choose lovers based on attraction rather than gender, and by titling his poll "Does Bisexuality Really Exist" without giving an option to state a plain yes, it further drove that perception.

[Sarasvati]

Sarasvati,
What offends you and what may offend others may be totally different. Yes...I guess it's useless to get one's panties in a wad over a silly little column, but sometimes a person has to speak out when they feel an injustice has been done. Since this column has appeared, Ted has jumped on the Bisexual Bandwagon, claiming to be bisexual himself. His subsequent column in no way reflected a single bit of regret for upsetting so many. Instead, he slanted the "fault" towards the fans of Angelina Jolie, Lindsay Lohan and the myriad of celebrities he claims caused the backlash.

http://au.eonline.com/uberblog/the_awful_truth/b64269_morninig_piss_angelina_what_hath_you.html

Seems he claims he was being sarcastic, defending a life choice that he himself has made. That's fine and dandy if it is true, but it did not come out sounding that way and for once, he needs to realize that his words can hurt if not chosen more carefully. Sarcasm is a wonderful tool, I use it a great deal myself, but it needs to be used with care. I'm sorry, but I just didn't see the sarcasm in his column. Instead I saw someone chastising celebrities as well as others, for being able to choose lovers based on attraction rather than gender, and by titling his poll "Does Bisexuality Really Exist" without giving an option to state a plain yes, it further drove that perception.

I respect your comments. However I have still not really grasped why anyone should feel so upset. I feel the need to probe a little further here.

To the question "Does Bisexuality Really Exist" we all have a simple solution - we observe ourselves, QED. To everyone who disputes it we simply smile at them, wave our hands and say "Hello".

They can be as sarcastic as they like but that will simply distort their own image in our eyes till they become ridiculous. I could say "Do Americans really exist?" and deny an affirmative option. If I did, it would be me not any American, who looks utterly daft (if I could look any dafter than I already do, that is). No American would need to feel offended.

I think there is a more intriguing question lurking though; "Does Heterosexuality Really Exist"? This question isn't clearly answerable by the observation of behaviour.

Some people seem to have a need to wave a flag for their sexual orientation. I don't have this need and I don't understand the desire in some bisexual people to do so.

But I can understand the desire of a predominantly homosexual person to wave such a flag as they are usually operating in cultures that are so strongly hostile to them. And I can also understand such a person being annoyed with a celebrity figure or waxish bisexuals diluting their sexuality, a cornerstone of their lives, by turning it into a fad.

We have already seen many threads on this site that demonstrate the failure of bisexuals to agree on the meaning of the term and any common nature between us.

By waving a flag for bisexuality just what are we defending, what are we proclaiming?

For me it's just like going on holiday.

[csrakate]

I wasn't trying to wave any flags, start a revolution or prove anything. I was just trying to lend some support....plain and simple. Sorry if my intentions seemed otherwise.

[writes at night]

You may not have been trying to start a revolution, but you have pointed out another situation where, once again, the bi community is being seen as the "red headed stepchild" in the LGBT community. (No offense intended to my red headed friends, as I choose to be part of this group.) This is an openly gay man that is turning a snarky eye on another faction of his own community. How are we all supposed to find equal human rights when we can't expect support within our own community?

It seems that there are at least 216 (not counting myself) bisexuals that feel that it is a matter of being seen as a viable group of people, as opposed to a pit stop between one of two possible final destinations. Just as the gay and lesbian movement want and demand the right to acceptance and equal rights. Why should we, as human beings, expect anything less?

For those who chose to contact the employer of this reporter, follow the link below, as E! International address and phone number are listed.

http://www.lyngsat-address.com/df/E-Ent-International.html

[void()]

"By waving a flag for bisexuality just what are we defending, what are we proclaiming?"

We are asserting our rights as human beings to desire and seek equality. In as much as my being able to have been at a public park with my boyfriend this weekend. He and I sat together on a bench. We were not engaged in any public displays of affection.

No one else was in the park. However, a fellow rode into the park on a motorcycle. I gave a friendly and polite nod to him. He left, my boyfriend tells me he and other guys were parked a block or so away later as we left.

Apparently my boyfriend thought it worth mentioning, as in he felt some concern of the motorcycle guy. I really didn't notice aside from being civil and acknowledging the guy's interruption. The point being, it should not have caused my boyfriend concern. And no, it isn't that my boyfriend is cowardly or hyper-sensitive.

But we live in a world where people are hated merely for any differences. My boyfriend and I are keenly aware of that. So is my wife. We ought not need to be concerned. Yet, here it is as it is.

So, we hoist the colors if we choose in order to belay our fears and concerns. You see, hate is bred out of fear. Perhaps the motorcycle guy and his friends were afraid of losing the park as a place to molest children? We don't know because we are afraid to ask, that might cost us our lives.

I don't think Kate was issuing a cry of havoc. Even if she had been, she's in good company. "We got your back, it's all one family, see." Now, excuse me, bed calls. Night.

[bisocialnudist]

Kate I appreciate your posting this information. Like anything here people can take what they can use and leave behind what they cant. I for one have a huge pet peeve about this on the way to something else or he is just confused or hes a fence sitter mentality.

I welcomed the opportunity to add my comment as I felt the poll was offensive in that it propagates false negative stereotypes about MY bisexuality.I have been sexually attracted to both men and women for at least 45 years I know "im not just on my way to being Gay".

Mark

[12voltman59]

Thanks for posting about that Kate---while the "poll" this snarky asses so and so put up----it was heartening that so many people took offense at his poll and stood up by responding in effect that: "YES THERE IS SUCH A THING AS BISEXUALITY--AND YOU SUCK FOR MAKING SUCH A POLL--ESPECIALLLY YOUR VIEW THAT IF BISEXUALITY IS OK--IT"S ONLY OK WHEN TWO HOT WOMEN DO IT!!"

That guy is just too much hooked into being a purveyor of and supporter of "the given wisdom of the almighty mass media on all things!!" (and talk about being a whore--being a cultural whore is the worst way of being a whore that it is possible to be---but what else would ya expect from a source like "E!"??? They are huge cultural whores!!)

That guy is a Lame assed MO-FO!!!!!

[vittoria]

I wasn't trying to wave any flags, start a revolution or prove anything. I was just trying to lend some support....plain and simple. Sorry if my intentions seemed otherwise.

"OMG!! Revolution!! Damnable contempt!"

Eh... a pox on that dribble and hogwash! Dont apologize for anything you have a feeling or a heart for or about... and never apologize to serpents. Those of us who know you, your character and kindnesses know your intent, and appreciate it. NEVER let ANYONE tell you otherwise. Personally, I dont kowtow to sweaty socks, so neither should you!!! :cutelaugh Sometimes people mock out others because they themselves are too damn chickenshit to do or SAY anything constructive themselves, m'dear...either that, or their balls are made out of yarn... and OH what a YARN!!!!! :cutelaugh!

[elian]

"By waving a flag for bisexuality just what are we defending, what are we proclaiming?"


No one else was in the park. However, a fellow rode into the park on a motorcycle. I gave a friendly and polite nod to him. He left, my boyfriend tells me he and other guys were parked a block or so away later as we left.

Apparently my boyfriend thought it worth mentioning, as in he felt some concern of the motorcycle guy. I really didn't notice aside from being civil and acknowledging the guy's interruption. The point being, it should not have caused my boyfriend concern. And no, it isn't that my boyfriend is cowardly or hyper-sensitive.



..just have a habit of noticing certain things - when leaving we went a few blocks and stopped for an extra long time at a stop sign as Void was explaining some of the general features of the area. I think that raised the curiosity of the guys a few blocks away - one of whom I noticed was the gentleman we had seen earlier on the bike.

Whether they were just hanging out or whatever I can't really say - just noticed them on an otherwise quiet street - in a secluded area. Maybe they just wanted to play with their toys..who knows.

[void()]

Just analytical. <grins> That's okay, too.

I just didn't notice because of growing up in the area. We really weren't 'out of the way causing a commotion', so there was nothing for snoopy folks to snoop. So it was just 'folks out on the street' to me.

<kisses elian's neck> Sometimes my not noticing shouldn't be misconstrued with not noticing. <grins and chuckles> After all, when you look at the stars, you even see the ants by your feet.

And yes, they were probably out playing with their toys. Silly boys. :)

[elian]

Being a Yankee from up Nort' I'm not always privy to all the Souther'n customs..

<elian writes> "What I Did on my Fall Vacation..."

Two guys sitting on a park bench talking isn't a "homosexual" activity as far as I know so fear really wasn't an element. Just chalk it up to a case of human curiosity I suppose..I gotta stop watching those Uma Thurman movies..

<remembers that "Far Side" cartoon with all of cats desperately trying to peer into the windows of the "Curiosity Shop">

I won't be flying any bisexual flags any time soon - I would much rather spend my energy advocating INCLUSIVE social justice causes rather than EXCLUSIVE ones. That is to say, rather than single myself out and say "I'm special" I look at it from the point of view of saying that "ALL people should have basic human rights".

..there, is it on topic enough now?.. <smiles>

[elian]

You would think gay people could understand what it feels like to be marginalized..again it just goes to prove that ANYONE can be a bigot..

[Bluebiyou]

And so I responded... with my current moniker "bluebiyou"
Sorry Ted, you asked the question the wrong way.We know from psychology that all humans are bisexual, but many/most tend to polarize (gay or straight).The question/poll should really be "Do gays/straights actually exist?"

[**Peg**]

amen Vitt... (re kate apologizing for ANYthing)

grrrrrrrr :bigrin:

[jamieknyc]

You would think gay people could understand what it feels like to be marginalized..again it just goes to prove that ANYONE can be a bigot..

Gay people can be every bit as intolerant as anyone else.

[DiamondDog]

And so I responded... with my current moniker "bluebiyou"
Sorry Ted, you asked the question the wrong way.We know from psychology that all humans are bisexual, but many/most tend to polarize (gay or straight).The question/poll should really be "Do gays/straights actually exist?"

That's news to me. Just when and how was this proven?

Have you ever read the DSM-III (where it said that if you're homosexual it's a mental illness) or the DSM-IV? It's not mentioned in either of those or even in sex studies like the Janus report or studies done about bisexuality.

I know people say that the Kinsey report proves this but that was done over 50 years ago, as far as the research goes it was flawed/biased, and this hasn't been proven in any modern day studies at all.

Not everyone is bisexual and if everyone really were it wouldn't be so controversial to be something other than heterosexual, and bi/gay/queer people wouldn't be a minority unlike heterosexuals who are the majority of the population.

We all either know, know about, or are someone who is totally heterosexual or homosexual and they're certainly not bisexual.

[Annika L]

Not everyone is bisexual and if everyone really were it wouldn't be so controversial to be something other than heterosexual, and bi/gay/queer people wouldn't be a minority unlike heterosexuals who are the majority of the population.

We all either know, know about, or are someone who is totally heterosexual or homosexual and they're certainly not bisexual.

Ah, DD (and nice to see you again...seems we've both been quiet lately), I begin to see your problem with labels: you seem to think that because something has a name, it must constitute a binary category (either you're in the category or you're out of it).

I think what Sarasvati was referring to (correct me, S, if I've misinterpreted) is the possibility of a continuum of sexuality, with nobody actually occupying the extremes (total heterosexuality and total homosexuality). This is opposed to the notion of 3 distinct categories: heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual.

Actually, the notion of a continuum seems quite post-label to me. There are no homosexuals, heterosexuals, or "exact" bisexuals...just varying degrees of appreciation for and attraction to the sexes. Hence, the word "bisexual" would apply to everyone, but in doing so, that word loses all meaning completely. You may identify as gay, but you've described having had sex with women; I know gay people who say they would never consider having sex with someone of the opposite sex, but who can admit they find some aspects of the opposite sex sexually attractive...I know some straight people who make analogous comments. Many people who have identified as "100% straight, no reservations, no attractions" end up having same-sex experiences...so how can we know if *anyone* is 100% gay or straight? This is what makes the question intriguing...the fact that it is unanswerable.

What we do know is that society is very uncomfortable with sex and sexuality generally, so it's not surprising at all to me that anything that makes people think about sex that wouldn't be completely comfortable for them would be controversial.

[Lienda]

Now, the poll wasn't offense to me. I glanced at a couple of his other blogs. I'm nuetral here, mind you. I get you about the "does it egsist?" part, though.

[csrakate]

While I was offended by the poll, I was even more offended by Ted Casablanca attempting to use his new found label of bisexual to excuse his treatment of bisexuals in this poll as merely a sarcastic way to present the topic. "So, as a bisexual man, in light of so many public figures using what is, of course, a very real sexual station in life for many, I'm not allowed to post a sarcastic piece about it all on my own blog." Anyone who knows or has followed Ted Casablanca would be more than right to assume that he is using his new found label as a "stop on the way to homoville" as he so indelicately put it in the poll. It's a little too late for him to attempt to use a label of bisexuality to justify his poll....he just got caught with his foot in his mouth and is using any means necessary to pull himself out of a mess of his own creation. A simple, "I'm sorry, it was rude" would have sufficed.

As for Bluebiyou's comment that all humans are bisexual, I took that to be "tongue in cheek" and just another way to point out to Ted that his comments were absurd. I am sure there have been studies done in that area....and sometimes I do believe that many more people are bisexual than are willing to admit it, but I'm not sure Bluebiyou was doing anything more than trying to make a point to someone who is obviously struggling to justify a very skewed point of view.

[FalconAngel]

"By waving a flag for bisexuality just what are we defending, what are we proclaiming?"

We are asserting our rights as human beings to desire and seek equality. In as much as my being able to have been at a public park with my boyfriend this weekend. He and I sat together on a bench. We were not engaged in any public displays of affection.

No one else was in the park. However, a fellow rode into the park on a motorcycle. I gave a friendly and polite nod to him. He left, my boyfriend tells me he and other guys were parked a block or so away later as we left.

Apparently my boyfriend thought it worth mentioning, as in he felt some concern of the motorcycle guy. I really didn't notice aside from being civil and acknowledging the guy's interruption. The point being, it should not have caused my boyfriend concern. And no, it isn't that my boyfriend is cowardly or hyper-sensitive.

But we live in a world where people are hated merely for any differences. My boyfriend and I are keenly aware of that. So is my wife. We ought not need to be concerned. Yet, here it is as it is.

So, we hoist the colors if we choose in order to belay our fears and concerns. You see, hate is bred out of fear. Perhaps the motorcycle guy and his friends were afraid of losing the park as a place to molest children? We don't know because we are afraid to ask, that might cost us our lives.

I don't think Kate was issuing a cry of havoc. Even if she had been, she's in good company. "We got your back, it's all one family, see." Now, excuse me, bed calls. Night.

Hey Voidy.
As a former member of a motorcycle club (not 1%ers when I was a member) and a serious biker (as opposed to weekend warrior) for 24 years, I can tell you that, unless they belong to a 1%er club (Outlaws, Hell's Angels, etc.), you are very safe around bikers. Maybe even safer than around cops. You know, some of us are Bi or Gay/Les.

If they come as a group and all look and act like they fell out of the 1960's biker films, then don't fly the colors and be glad you aren't black. (I know that the OL's down here are notoriously racist and homophobic. But they do throw one hell of a party.)

But then, most riders, except for the racebike and Goldwing guys, suffer from a similar stygma. I still run into the occasion where I will pull up next to a car at a light and, very suddenly, hear the door locks engage, unless I am dressed for work or something similar.

In effect, you were doing to the bikers what they were doing to you. judgment based on the single quality of appearance.
And the molesting children thing was really uncalled for.
Bikers, at least none that I have ever known of, do not molest children. Certainly no more than the rest of society.

If you'd have had a reason to have gone over and said hello, you may have made some friends and both groups would have learned something; of course if they were 1%ers, then avoiding them was the safer thing to do.
The fact that they didn't come to you and harass you is a good indication that they were not going to bother you.

[Celtiff2106]

Thank you for posting that. I don't care what people think, any time a people are marginalized it is the job of every human being to attempt to right the wrong. Period.
I'm not saying be a global police force or anything, but that people need to take care of each other.
And I am getting sick and f**king tired of people telling me I don't exist. "Um, HI! Pretty sure I am here, hey look, proved you wrong...again"

[Bluebiyou]

...
As for Bluebiyou's comment that all humans are bisexual, I took that to be "tongue in cheek" and just another way to point out to Ted that his comments were absurd. I am sure there have been studies done in that area....and sometimes I do believe that many more people are bisexual than are willing to admit it, but I'm not sure Bluebiyou was doing anything more than trying to make a point to someone who is obviously struggling to justify a very skewed point of view.

:tongue:

While that was certainly my affect (Kate my dear, you read me well!), there was also basis in Annika L's logic. No one is 100.000000% hetero, nor 100.000000% gay. No one. ... 99.990000%... maybe... 95-97% commonly... then 15 - 85% (here we are @ bisexual.com!).
We all grow up with two genders (idealy) in our community... wanting to be loved by a mother and father... or at least 'masculine' and 'feminine' traits. ...and thusly we love and are attracted (at least slightly) by both.
To my mind, this is what allows Fran to be such an excellent (what we would call a) father (strong, opinionated, firm); someone that most anyone (child developing perspective) could develop their own self around (quite deep also). Either conforming or rebelling to many of the asserted traits!