New and a question about dealing with biphobia

[-Dyva-]

Hi all! I can't see a specific introductions board or thread, so I'll introduce myself here and hope I'm in the right place!

I'm Dyva (ignore the hyphens either side of the screenname, I had to choose something 5 letters or longer), I'm 26, and I've been out as bisexual for ten years (yay!).

This year, I got involved in organising the first Pride festivities in my adopted hometown. I'm the only bi on the Pride collective, which made me wonder why more of us don't get involved... well, I guess I found out why. At every Pride event I went to, I was open about my sexual orientation (or lack thereof ;)) and got at least one snarky remark from someone. I hasten to add that these comments didn't come from other members of the collective, who are all fab, wonderful people, but from members of the public attending these events.

The comments I got were mostly said in a joking fashion, for example, at a comedy night I got the ubiquitous "You're gay, straight or lying, heh heh" (which I know from reading back has been discussed here already), but they ranged through to "You're greedy, you should make your mind up" (I'm monogamous by choice, and single by being a picky bugger).

I'd love to have a polite but firm response to these things. As a Pride organiser, I can't really flip on attendees and scream in their faces, but it's really starting to get to me. At a cabaret event, one half of a lesbian couple told me I'm "half gay" - how condescending is that?! It's like, "you can half be in our gang, just shut up about liking the opposite sex when you're around us"... damnit, I don't need to be in their gang, I have my own gang!

To that, I replied, "I'm not. I'm 100% bisexual, thankyewverymuch!" Her partner, who I know fairly well, said, "You two will get on some day." I'm glad she was able to be diplomatic and stop it escalating, because I was having a difficult time trying to hold off an explosion.

It's weird. In the ten years I've been out, I've never had any problems. Now I'm part of a big LGBT celebration, the bigots seem to be crawling out of the woodwork. Any suggestions for dealing with this would be awesome - and I'll say that something good has already come out of this experience, if it hadn't been for that, I would never have found this forum. You'll probably see me around for a while, at least!

[JoshuaGlynn]

I hate to say it but welcome to the club lol...

Yea, it is an on going hassle, but I can tell you as a Bi guy, that your lucky your female... I can't tell you how many times I have heard that is perfectly ok for a woman to be bi... but a bi man is just gross...

I actually had a bi girlfriend once that was turned off by my being attracted to guys as well as her and other women. We eventually broke up over it... but she was not the first nor the last that I have heard that from.

What is even worse is that the main reason I have never told my parents that I'm bi is that I know them and their very strict on their religious beliefs. If I was Gay that would be one thing... I could argue that I was born this way and did not find girls at all interesting... being Bi, they would just tell me I had a choice and should make the right one! LOL


well there is my :2cents:

Josh

[-Dyva-]

Thanks for the reply Joshua! *feels all special*

Sorry to hear that your girlfriend was such a tit. I've dated bi guys before and they were awesome - we had something in common and some shared experiences that made for a good starting point! Hope you find someone to share your life with soon.

I'm not going to get into the "who has it worse" vis-a-vis men and women debate, as that could go on forever and wouldn't reach any meaningful conclusion, but I guess I'm lucky when it comes to partners, none have given me any shit for being bi. I guess being a bolshy bird helps there - I put the cards on the table right at the start, and if they don't like it, they don't have to date me.

I should interject that I wasn't quite correct when I said I'd never had any problems before - I came out in college (age 16), which wasn't one of my brightest ideas. I even wrote an article entitled "Why It Sucks To Be Bisexual" for the student newspaper (I was so articulate back then). However, I figured that was something I wouldn't have to deal with as an adult, so recent events have kinda thrown me for a loop!

So, back to the subject! I was hoping that my post didn't come across as "whine, whine, it's so difficult", although it undoubtedly is, I was more looking for some answers to spout when these situations come up... or something. This stuff got to me so much I was considering not going to Pride, despite the fact that I'd been involved in organising it for months.

Of course, I did go to Pride. It was amazing, better than we'd expected in our wildest dreams, a sea of rainbow flags parading through the city... but not one pink, purple and blue. Zero bisexual visibility. It's a chicken and egg debate - are there no/few bisexuals at Pride because of biphobia (perceived or real), or is biphobia allowed to flourish because we don't step out and say it's unacceptable? I don't know. My plans at the minute are to work on the basis that we need more visibility, not less... I'll keep you updated.

[JoshuaGlynn]

I'm not going to get into the "who has it worse" vis-a-vis men and women debate, as that could go on forever and wouldn't reach any meaningful conclusion...

LOL no worries... I wasn't trying to start one... I guess that is more of an American observation... folks around here can be so up tight LOL

What I what I might not have made clear above was that she was Bi as well... I always told her she was way to hypocritical, that she could be bi... but me being bi was gross... LOL

Oh well, that is why she is the Ex-girlfriend....

Oh and btw... Welcum to the forum... I'm rather new here myself... I just posted my Bi awareness story called Acceptance down there... a few days ago.

I'm sure I'll see you around the forums... Cheers!

Josh

[artsy girl]

Dyva.. i think it's quite commen in the queer community to actually be unnacepting at times..
My friend at work who is gay and transgender also told he gets a lot of that as well.. people not being understanding.

It's a funny thing ... but i think people in the glbt community sometimes are critical maybe cause they only see if from their own side. I'm not sure.

sometimes my friend also teases me in a fun way... that i'm gay... or i should just get over myself and hit a lesiban bar... which sometimes does bug me...

I dont' mind being called gay... sometimes...but i also remind him...i don't really like people viewing me as gay.. cause first of all i'm in a straight relationship and ....i want the men to be attracted to me as well not just women. all we can do is educate people i guess.

[Realist]

OK, People, listen up!

Dyva asked for some help and no one seems to have been listening!

She said, "I was more looking for some answers to spout when these situations come up... or something. This stuff got to me so much I was considering not going to Pride, despite the fact that I'd been involved in organising it for months."

Now, I know some of you guys are sharp enough to come up with some great, smart comments, history, anecdotes, or mind-blowers that she can use. So, get on the stick and help her out, here!

I can't do it...I was the always the guy who used to come back with, "OH YEAH!" That was about the best I could do.

Later, much later, when everyone had gone home...........THEN, I'd think of something smart to say! It was too late, then!

[Herbwoman39]

I wish I could help with a witty retort. I just don't have one. There's just so much biphobia out there that sometimes i don't even catch it until after it's too late to say anything. And if i DO catch it, I have to try very hard not to be defensive.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

lol If they asked who came first, the chicken or the egg, tell them the Rooster did...lol
Dont let anyones opinion get you down Hon. Your opinion is the only one who truly matters in sexual matters, so dont let them get to you one bit!
Refuse to be Their definiton, be your own. :color::upside:

All I can think of for witty comments at the moment. :}
Good Luck Sweetie
Cat

[-Dyva-]

Thanks for the replies, guys! It's a shame we don't have the retorts available, but then maybe that's not the way forward - as Artsy Girl said, all we can do is educate people, and that can't be done in a one-liner.

[softfruit]

There are some practice rebuttals to some of the usual biphobic pish in Both Directions (see the Resources page of the Bi Community News website), but they're really just not that snappy.

The one that came to mind reading the original post was "no, you're half bisexual"... and when they tell you it doubles your chances of a date on a Friday night (yawn!) depending on mood to either go with "*sigh* half nothing's nothing" or "yeah, but I only get the same number of Friday nights in a year as you do".

Shame there were no pink, purple and blue things on your Pride dyva; I know there's been a lot more bi stuff at Prides this year thanks to the bis@prides project that some people set in motion after last summer's BiCon, but that it can only reach places where there are volunteers locally or willing to travel. There's so damn many Pride events around the UK nowadays! I think this year there was or will be bi stuff at Scotia, Birmingham, Manchester, London, Brighton, Oxford, Reading, Cardiff, Swansea, Derby, Halifax, Sheffield and Leeds, which is much better than in a good many years.

But it just takes two or three people, three poles and a bit of fabric to add to that list :o)

[Alaskan Couple]

I have noticed for some time that, ironically, the groups that cry the loudest for acceptance, tolerance and understanding tend to be the least tolerant of all??? This is true with "alternative spiritual types" and is also very prevalent amongst "gay folks".

I have come to view myself as "bisexual" because I am capable of loving either gender.(actually, the term "bisexual" is just a convenient description - really I might be called a "poly-amorous person with gender neutral sexuality" or some such but that becomes rather a mouthful.) I hasten to add that I mean love, which implies a deeper meshing of souls than a mere sexual coupling. The "love" part comes first with any intimacy being an expression... an outflow of that "love". Thus, I think that "gay" people are simply not as capable of universal love (and I have noticed this among the ones I know...it's an ugly word, but selfish and self-centered is what I often see ). And of course this shines forth brightly in their anti-bi attitudes. Again, those who are screaming the loudest for tolerance and acceptance "for all" become the first to discriminate against others who differ from themselves!

How I handle these folks is rather simple...I don't bother. They are just not worth my time or the negative energy required to attempt to educate them. If they do not have love in their hearts, I am not capable of changing that. And they are certainly not people I would want to be around...so I'm not. A simple reply such as; "I appreciate your taking the time to let me know just how you feel", or "That's an interesting perspective, perhaps I'll have to give it some thought someday", or simply a "Hmmm, that's interesting...thank you for sharing that" and then I take my leave from their presence.

Bottom line; one has to decide on whom and how they will spend their inner peace...

[Doggiestyle]

Well now Dyva about the question about Bi Phobia. I guess that you could be a for real DIVA and just go off and go haywire on them. But I guess that you will have to get used to it, cause youre gonna hear it all the time. That the strait folks think that youre gay and the gay folks think youre strait. However I always accuse them of bein the "narrow minded" ones, or the ones that cannot think outside of the box. This applies especially to the liberal, progressive thinking gay folks that consider themselves "hip", but in reality, are just as square and narrow minded as the strait folks. :yikes2:
The thing to tell them is that you are...:female:....:male:.. and so you ask them.
Sooooo youre just a gay? Is that all? Aren't you kind of limiting yourself? I like to think of myself as a versatile person, which seems to be more than you can be. I bet that I can get into more sex than you can too! :tong:
There is a person that visits this web-site frequently that has a foot-note posted at the bottom of all his post's that says. "Being bisexual means that I can stick my hand into anybodys pants and be happy with whatever I find" And a personal, real favorite of mine is one quoted by James Dean, a long time ago. "To me, being strictly a straight or gay person would be like going through life with one hand tied behind your back". :bigrin: Now you just couldin't get a better comeback than that!!!!!!! HUH!!!!!!!
So the next time that a strait calls you a gay or a gay calles you a strait. Just give them a couple of ;) winks ;) and tell them that you can be either, wanna find out? (that is if you feel like playing)
Or if someone from either side of the street wants to play, you can tell them to come out into the middle of the street, where it's more fun.
Or if someone says that you are in a transition period and can't make your mind up which you want to be, just give them a couple more ;) winks ;) and say maybe i'll someday get there. Till then all I want to do is have some fun, for me my party is just begun.
And I could ramble on for more. But i'll spare you and everbody else. Just please don't despare yourself for bein a queer in such a strait and gay world. As a matter of fact I like being a bisexual, and you should too, cause we are!

Oh and also, I wish to welcome you as a new person to the Bi-site. Feel free to ask anything you like to ask. Cause were full of good advice. We might not follow that advice. But we can shure deal it out! :2cents:

Your friend, :doggie: ......:bipride:

[-Dyva-]

Wahey, thanks for the input, guys! "No, you're half bisexual" - what an awesome riposte! (That James Dean quote is brilliant, too, just longer to work into conversation.) I'd never heard of bis@Prides before (that's how new to all this I am), is there a group running this project? I did a quick online search and didn't find anything, but if it's mostly unofficial that kinda makes sense...

I had a few thoughts while reading through the responses... here's what came to mind:



I have come to view myself as "bisexual" because I am capable of loving either gender.(actually, the term "bisexual" is just a convenient description - really I might be called a "poly-amorous person with gender neutral sexuality" or some such but that becomes rather a mouthful.) I hasten to add that I mean love, which implies a deeper meshing of souls than a mere sexual coupling. The "love" part comes first with any intimacy being an expression... an outflow of that "love". Thus, I think that "gay" people are simply not as capable of universal love (and I have noticed this among the ones I know...it's an ugly word, but selfish and self-centered is what I often see ). And of course this shines forth brightly in their anti-bi attitudes. Again, those who are screaming the loudest for tolerance and acceptance "for all" become the first to discriminate against others who differ from themselves!


I've also had a few difficulties with the term 'bisexual', mostly because I tend not to see gender as a binary concept, but 'bisexual' is the most commonly used term so I use it as a shortcut. Having done some reading and spoken to a bunch of other bi folks, quite a few feel the same as I do, and also claim the 'bisexual' label, so I feel that the label itself becomes defined by those who use it to describe themselves... wow, this is off topic, and could probably become its own thread. Anyway! ;D I disagree that gay (or straight) people are 'not as capable of universal love' - I assume you mean platonic love, or simple respect for one another as human beings, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, or whatever other defining features a person may have. If you mean romantic love, then we bisexuals are also incapable of universal love - we all have our physical and emotional preferences in partners, we're just open to both/all genders. I do agree with the last sentence of that paragraph, though.



How I handle these folks is rather simple...I don't bother. They are just not worth my time or the negative energy required to attempt to educate them. If they do not have love in their hearts, I am not capable of changing that. And they are certainly not people I would want to be around...so I'm not. A simple reply such as; "I appreciate your taking the time to let me know just how you feel", or "That's an interesting perspective, perhaps I'll have to give it some thought someday", or simply a "Hmmm, that's interesting...thank you for sharing that" and then I take my leave from their presence.


I often use the last one of those when I'm not feeling up to debating the issue - it acknowledges the other person's position without either argument or acceptance, and puts a clear end to the discussion. Usually, though, I'm more up for discussing things and attempting to change people's attitudes - nothing ever changes if nobody speaks up. I'm quite an in-yer-face person (however, I like to be in-yer-face with polite responses and knowledge to back up my position) so I figure I might as well be the one to speak out. Nobody's gonna do it for you, as they say.



So the next time that a strait calls you a gay or a gay calles you a strait. Just give them a couple of winks and tell them that you can be either, wanna find out? (that is if you feel like playing)
Or if someone from either side of the street wants to play, you can tell them to come out into the middle of the street, where it's more fun.
Or if someone says that you are in a transition period and can't make your mind up which you want to be, just give them a couple more winks and say maybe i'll someday get there. Till then all I want to do is have some fun, for me my party is just begun.


I love the first couple of responses, but I wouldn't use the last one - I'm not in a transition period, I've been out for ten years and haven't changed my mind in that time... Fun is all good, though!



Just please don't despare yourself for bein a queer in such a strait and gay world. As a matter of fact I like being a bisexual, and you should too, cause we are!


I love being bi - while it may not be 'the best of both worlds' it does give you a valuable insight into both! I love the diversity of the people I've had relationships and/or 'fun' with ;) - I've had some awesome experiences I wouldn't have had if I was monosexual. This post has got long and waffly, so I'll end it here... Thanks for the welcome, BTW!

[softfruit]

UK Bis at prides project - see http://community.livejournal.com/biatpride/

BiCon (www.bicon2009.org.uk) plenary voted some money to be spent on Pride stalls etc - it's no more official than a couple of people who were authorised to go and spend a couple of hundred quid around the country getting us visible where otherwise we would probably not be.

[-Dyva-]

Oooh, thank you, thank you! Awesome! Norwich Pride even had a mention on the site without me knowing about it, I wonder if anyone actually showed - if they did, I didn't see them! Never mind, more things to get involved with... I'm really annoyed I can't go to BiCon this year, it's on my list of things to make time for next year!

[softfruit]

Norwich - I know there were some people there for part of the day, who weren't able to do banner-waving things but who were still getting flyers for BiCon and wider bi info onto some friendly stalls there.

[-Dyva-]

Dagnabbit, I should've got involved with bi stuff before Pride! Ah well, I'm glad to hear some stuff went out, I'll have to ask the rest of the collective if they met anyone (I wasn't based in the main stalls area).

[fuzzybunnykins]

While down at Brighton Pride me and my partner did look for bi flags and didnt find any :( (well ok we found a pub and got lost in it instead :P)
It is hard to think of any witty retorts outside of the moment, but the main problem I seem to find is that just because my "girl cherry" has yet to be poped that makes me just "courious" :mad:!!!!!

But welcome :D

[softfruit]

There was at least one bi flag at Brighton -- I was wearing it! :o)

[fuzzybunnykins]

Well ok we didnt look all that hard, the pub forced us not to :P

[just4mefc]

I love being bi - while it may not be 'the best of both worlds' it does give you a valuable insight into both!

This makes me wonder... Perhaps this is part of the problem with the "bi" identity. Do we not see ourselves as a distinct group? In my opinion we are the largest group in the world (from a biological perspective at least) Yet we seem to get caught up in a self description of "half gay / half str8" when we say Bi. I don't think we get much of an insight to str8 nor gay. Seems often neither group understands nor accepts our point of view. The st8 world, well most are so phobic the best you can hope for from them is "tolerance" and the gay world only accepts bi in order to increase their political/emotional backing. I do not mean to say this applies to ALL gay/st8 people but an overall perspective. Most of us are not on a temporary stop to being "true gays" - we are us. We are a very diverse group but we are not "half breeds" to me the big problem that str8/gays have with bi folks is we destroy the argument of choice. We, by our very nature choose to be bi in their opinion and that means we are some how dishonest.

so my reply to the "your half gay" statement.... hey its not my fault you CHOOSE to hide under the GAY flag... but of course after that there is gonna be a fight :eek:

Of course you could just be cute and say "actually I am a double agent in her Majesties sexual service...code name double oh bite me"

:bipride: