Feeling the loss...

[TwylaTwobits]

Today we lost a member of this site, a member who has contributed greatly and will be missed. Was it due to a death or a lifestyle change? No, it was due to the failure of people to embrace the uniqueness of this community. It's not all about sex. If it was just sex, this would be no better than a hookup site, the fact it isn't just about sex and sexual situations makes this site a community. Are people now saying bisexuals are just about sex? If that's the case, I have misread any number of bisexuals on this site who are kind, caring and open about themselves in ways that you don't normally find in some forums.

The rules only state that certain types of sex acts are not to be posted here, they state flame the idea, not the person. They do not state that any members contribution is less valid because some people want to only read about sex.

[TwylaTwobits]

No, I would have preferred they didn't leave at all because of an incident with one misguided person. This post is more about the need for people to understand this is a community not a sex hookup.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Well White, the member that left did so for a number of reasons, and is a long standing member. It was her perogitive to do so, and I'm trying to persuade her to come back when all in her life settles down a bit. :}
She'll be vastly missed by those of us who know her well...;)
Cat

[Long Duck Dong]

one of the brightest stars of the night sky, has become shadowed by clouds so dense that they would hinder the welcome light to nay be seen......

is gonna sulk now, and I ish not gonna stop sulking until that bright star posts again.... and I am gonna sulk cos I can.....:(

[darkeyes]

When I read Ris saying she had had enough I was flabbergasted... I know she has been having doubts about sticking around and take it from me.. she isn't the only one. There is an insensitivity and a cruel streak developing in site which is becoming hard to take. I see people disappear who have been around since the ark and think to myself that something is going very wrong here. This site is supposed to be for bisexual people to get together for support, advice, fun and to express opinions and somehow it has become a site which increasingly has been losing its way because it is losing it's heart..

Unless people begin to listen to each other and care for each other a lot more, and stop ripping the guts out of each other on a personal level .com is going to go up in a puff of smoke and disappear up its own backside.. and it will deserve so to do.. and it will be a pity.. but then many are heartless bastards who don't give a shite what others think and how they feel.. so what does it matter..

Take all the time you need Ris me luffly..and don't come back until you feel ready..if you ever do so.. if not.. well... real life is so much better anyway.. :)

*Kissies n huggles*

o bugga..

*snogs..wiv pash*:bigrin:

[biinterested]

This is difficult to say at the least.
When I 1st stumbled upon the site I did so for sex and to be honest chatted with a lot of people where sex never was even mentioned. I struggle with my sexuality and always have; is it morally right for a white Irish Catholic Church goer to be bi and desire a man? The answer is no according to everything I grew up with and was taught to me.
I still have the deisres though and that closes the circle back to the topic. Everyone has always been nice to me here, has shown me tolerance and if some one gets on my nerves I may say so in a nice way. I am sure I have offended a few members here unintentionally, let some others down through not being ready to meet them, but for the most part this remains a haven for me and I return again and again. I hope who ever left returns, if not it is their path to follow in their pursuit of happiness and everything turns out well for them and those who choose to remain.

[still_shy]

I understand exactly where she's coming from...Many times over the last few months I've wondered what it is that keeps me coming back to this site. It's certainly not the site I joined. Little by little the good ones keep dropping out until all that will be left is a place for hookups and writing about where to put your cum. I hate it. I guess the optimist in me keeps hoping it will turn around and go back to the way it used to be but the pessimist in me says it's too late for that.

You can't blame Rissa for finally getting sick and tired of what we all bitch about. I've considered it myself. Hopefully after things cool off a bit, she'll reconsider and come back. If not, it's just another casualty of the pricks who frequent this place. I wish there was some way we could fix things. Until then, we will just keep losing the very people who made this site what it was.

[darkeyes]

This is difficult to say at the least.
When I 1st stumbled upon the site I did so for sex and to be honest chatted with a lot of people where sex never was even mentioned. I struggle with my sexuality and always have; is it morally right for a white Irish Catholic Church goer to be bi and desire a man? The answer is no according to everything I grew up with and was taught to me.
I still have the deisres though and that closes the circle back to the topic. Everyone has always been nice to me here, has shown me tolerance and if some one gets on my nerves I may say so in a nice way. I am sure I have offended a few members here unintentionally, let some others down through not being ready to meet them, but for the most part this remains a haven for me and I return again and again. I hope who ever left returns, if not it is their path to follow in their pursuit of happiness and everything turns out well for them and those who choose to remain.

A haven is wot its meant to be hun.. course ther will b disagreements an sum bitchin.. but its becummin much 2 frequent an much 2 unpleasant.. lets hope we can sumhow save it wile we hav the chance.. its peeps like u .com exists for.. :)

[darkeyes]

I understand exactly where she's coming from...Many times over the last few months I've wondered what it is that keeps me coming back to this site. It's certainly not the site I joined. Little by little the good ones keep dropping out until all that will be left is a place for hookups and writing about where to put your cum. I hate it. I guess the optimist in me keeps hoping it will turn around and go back to the way it used to be but the pessimist in me says it's too late for that.

You can't blame Rissa for finally getting sick and tired of what we all bitch about. I've considered it myself. Hopefully after things cool off a bit, she'll reconsider and come back. If not, it's just another casualty of the pricks who frequent this place. I wish there was some way we could fix things. Until then, we will just keep losing the very people who made this site what it was.

..an for u an all Shy me luffly.. hav been readin sum a the early threads from 2005 an 6.. God wot a difference from now.. jus a relief ther wos sumwer peeps cud share.. ther wos a naivity and compassion wiv seems 2 b lackin now.. peeps jus wonted 2 kno..2 meet.. 2 care.. 2 share.. 2 laff an cry.. it cud nev last..an asya go through the last 5 years ya c an increasin cynicism an unpleasantness, less fun..more base matta jus for the hell of it..

.com can b an is still fun.. can b an is still wot it always wos.. but it is sumhow less than it wos.. it had 2 change..nowt stays same foreva.. but things shud change for the betta..not the otha way round..:(

[bicurcple]

We also originally joined this site for the sexual aspect. But after 5 years here we have yet to have any experience with anybody from this site, let alone any bi experience at all, we are still curious, but found that we like the diverse group of people on here and found it comforting that there are other people with the same questions and interests as us. We come back now not for the sex, but for the interesting topics and the people. We admit that we may have not been the nicest people on some of the topics, but only when we feel passionate on our views and opinions. It does get disturbing to see forums constantly about "do you prefer pussy or cock" and "do you like to swallow" for example. We all know there is sex on our minds but there is so much more to life than just sex. We get messages from people who say things like " love to eat that pussy" and we find that annoying, but we understand there are people with a low mental capacity out there and unfortunately you can't get around that. It sucks that such a fine and stable member would leave, hopefully they will come back, and hopefully more of the regular members and decent people will stick around.

[12voltman59]

I can understand if someone who has been here awhile decides to leave--in some of those times when we have been under sustained assault by our various trolls and such---I have thought of leaving myself and also thought about it too when many regulars get into some nasty go rounds on some topic or another that just seems to become a pissing match where the comments get very nasty and personal----but then again--I do keep coming back---I do pull back from here from time to time---with as much as anything--when it gets to be nice weather---I am not on here as much--just lilke I don't come online as much either.

It is too bad that someone else has decided to leave, but I have seen many people come and many people go in the time I have been here---so it goes.

[tenni]

When someone joins a site, they do it for a reason and similarly a person no longer comes to a site for a reason. A person posts on a site for a reason. The reason that a person posts on a site like this may change over time. A person may post their thoughts on topics related to the site. If a person begins to feel comfortable on a site, they may begin to perceive the site's forum for something such as a personal means of communicating with their net friends. They may forget that they and a small group of other posters are being read by many others. They may begin to see a site as their personal domain. They may begin to use the forums as if they are communicating in a PM or in a private chat rather than adding to the topic. To some other posters, this begins to appear as a controlling group on the site. They may begin to declare other posters with differing views as "trolls". Their net friends support them and it begins to look like a school yard. They may begin to become bored by reading the "same" issues and post dismissive comments claiming that they have been discussed before. They forget that new posters have not discussed the issue though. In rare cases, some may become over dependent on an internet site as a crutch for their personal issues beyond a site's purpose. Most people do not though. They just leave when the site no longer is of interest. They continue any friendships off the site. Life goes on.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

She didnt leave because she was bored with the site. She left because of morons who treated her like you did. Those who ran her down and insulted her at various turns. People do have the freedom to their own opinions, but not at the sake of others feelings. I'm gunna shut up now before my tongue takes over before my mind is fully awake. :mad::disgust:
Cat

[Samalina]

If you didn't want to read her post about her personal life then you could have visited another thread or skipped over her post. Just like when I see your annoying uptight comments I skip over them and continue reading. I don't comment and say stfu Tenni even though I'm thinking it.You need to get off your high horse and take the stick out your ass.

[still_shy]

What gives you the right to judge someone else's statements? This is supposed to be a site that promotes tolerance, love and acceptance and all I'm seeing from you are closeminded, mean remarks.

[Luffly1]

I obviously to not speak often, but I do enjoy reading the forum every now and again and Rissababy was one of the few posters that I looked forward to seeing. Whether it was some thought out comment in an attempt to help someone or it was to throw a bit of humor into a situation in an attempt to achieve a nice chuckle, her posts were always an enjoyable read. I have never spoken to her personally, but she seemed like a great person to know and I hope she comes back soon.

[Canticle]

She didnt leave because she was bored with the site. She left because of morons who treated her like you did. Those who ran her down and insulted her at various turns. People do have the freedom to their own opinions, but not at the sake of others feelings. I'm gunna shut up now before my tongue takes over before my mind is fully awake. :mad::disgust:
Cat

Rissa will be missed, but I am sure she will return, given time. Rissa may well have tired of the things, said by some people and certain comments to her, were totally out of order.

For the writer of those words, I would say this..''Rissa is an intelligent person. Her husband and children, are part of her life, part of who she is. Talking about them, does not mean she cannot discuss other matters...matters more erudite''.....Would that person be bothered by being told that...I doubt it, Cat.

I look forward to seeing Rissa's return, but I think she has far more important things she needs to bother herself with. She will return...when the time is right, for her.

I must say, that a certain member's post, was the only one, which I have ever seen, which came even close to insulting Rissa, but of course, I don't read every thread, so I may well be wrong.

Freedom of speech is paramount, if one is to have a free and fair society. Where people express opiions/views, there will always be the chance that another's feelings may be hurt, though not always. I have never seen, before a certain post, Rissa violently disagreed with. Disagreed with, Yes, as she has disagreed with others, but never to the pont of hurting her feelings.

To call people morons, merely because they post about things one does not agree with, express views, in a strong manner, or just simply annoy one, could be termed an insult, too.

I don't think there are any morons posting upon this site. There may well be people who have extreme views, loud personalities, strongly held beliefs and put those forward, in their posts, but they are not morons.

Very often, when one person, is being generally insulting, there will be many who post, who will take that person to task. It is not the duty of just a few. We can all work together to make someone see that what they are posting is either inaccurate, insulting, vain or maybe even totally ridiculous etc etc.

I am still waiting for you to explain your comment, upon one of my posts, on another thread, where you said the ''three personae,'' could all be seen in one post. I asked for an explanation. It wasn't forthcoming. That tells me, that there was nothing to explain. I don't think you like wordy posts either...but that is just your preference. Many people, need more than a couple of lines and an emoticon, to put over a view. Many, many people.

So Rissa will return, when Rissa is ready and if she does not, it may be that people will miss her, but there is a life beyond the computer screen. One we all have to lead.

And Tenni...don't take this post, as me agreeing with you. You insulted Rissa and therefore, all stay at home mothers. I was one and we don't become cabbages.....we are still intelligent, thinking beings.

[bicurcple]

It is no way our business, but was she getting harrased by personal messages? It is just surprising to us because she just did a post about getting the Great Dane puppy the other day and we read some of her other posts on that subject and it just didn't seem like she was having a problem. Again it is none of our business but If anybody that was really close to her talks with her at least let her know that there are many people who will miss her words.......including us.

[darkeyes]

and much of
When someone joins a site, they do it for a reason and similarly a person no longer comes to a site for a reason. A person posts on a site for a reason. The reason that a person posts on a site like this may change over time. A person may post their thoughts on topics related to the site. If a person begins to feel comfortable on a site, they may begin to perceive the site's forum for something such as a personal means of communicating with their net friends. They may forget that they and a small group of other posters are being read by many others. They may begin to see a site as their personal domain. They may begin to use the forums as if they are communicating in a PM or in a private chat rather than adding to the topic. To some other posters, this begins to appear as a controlling group on the site. They may begin to declare other posters with differing views as "trolls". Their net friends support them and it begins to look like a school yard. They may begin to become bored by reading the "same" issues and post dismissive comments claiming that they have been discussed before. They forget that new posters have not discussed the issue though. In rare cases, some may become over dependent on an internet site as a crutch for their personal issues beyond a site's purpose. Most people do not though. They just leave when the site no longer is of interest. They continue any friendships off the site. Life goes on.

You are right in most of what you say Tenni.. but you have failed to respond in answer to the criticisms made.. that you have acted insensitively and insultingly.. and that people should not post on the minutiae of their everyday lives.. you may have said otherwise, but that is what you meant..

..and the inference that there is a controlling clique is simply hogwash. There are some good friends on site who have shared a great deal over the last few years.. but by no means do they control the site.. friends maybe, not a clique of friends.. they support anyone on site they feel is unfairly criticised.. no matter who they are.. and criticise any with whom they disagree and criticise accordingly..

.. life does go on you are right.. there will always be casualties on site.. we would rather they went not because they had been put off by being slagged off unfairly, or because of subject matter, or they feel isolated, but because they had moved on once the site has served its purpose or is no longer relevant to them.. and that last point is criticism for which we must all take a share of responsibility..

[Long Duck Dong]

tenni, I will not judge you for your actions, I will question something tho.... and that is the way you desired others to change their way of expression as it was not a term that you feel people that have sex for money, would like to be known by.....

when we tell others they should use terms that are more pleasing to us on the grounds that other people may find it offensive.... we are saying, please change your way of life and communication to match what we feel others see as acceptable in their lives and about their lifestyles

if everybody did that, we would remove 90% of the forms of expression that stop people in this site, expressing themselves diversely...

things like franspeak would not happen, and yet that is a big part of darkeyes... its who she is.....

there is a saying I love, we can do everything in a non offensive manner, and there will always be somebody that will take offense to what we do....

[texasman6172003]

[SIZE="6"]IN THE INFAMOUS WORDS OF MICK THE LIPS JAGGER,"WHY ARE WE FIGHTING"

[Doggie_Wood]

People are acting like this person died when it's not that serious.

They just stopped going to and posting at a website and it happens all the time.

If you were actually supposed friends with her and really did care about her, the fact that she's no longer posting on this site wouldn't be a big deal since you could just call her or email her and stay in contact off of this site.

If we did nigh, expressing of feelings that we have over the loss of a friend and loved one, then cold as the blood of a reptile would course through our veins.

We are not robots nor cold blooded creatures Rabbit - yes, life goes on - but many in these rooms have formed a bond of love and/or friendship, people that we have shared inspirations, hopes, joys, sadness as well as tears with. Though the emotions shared may not have been within a physical context, still they were shared. This is part of what being a caring human, a friend is about.

And let it be know and understood that the bond that has been formed in past, and that yet to come, is not the gathering of a "clique" - but more like the gathering of a like community, joined together for a common purpose - a family.

Doggie :doggie:

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Beautifully said Doggie! Rabbit just doesnt understand our ways and ways of thinking because he hasnt been here very long, and doesnt understand us. He doesnt know the bond that forms with folks here. Most think that this place is Just about sex and getting off, sadly for them, its Not JUST that. If that's what they are looking for I'm sure they'll find it eventually, and good luck to them.
Those of us who have found a Family here supports one another, and truly Cares about the People here, for we arent Just a piece of hook-up meat, we Are people. People look out for each other, thats what friends Do, and we take care of each other. Many of us have "Been there" for each other in bad times and very good times, and that says a great deal about the power of love and friends. Muahs to all that I know. :};)
Cat

[OmegaGray]

This thread is scary, because I joined this site in search of the community many of you are speaking of, but it sounds as though I came in at its decline. In fact, as a new, younger member I am worried that I will only ever be able to view that community externally, which feels like being an outsider in an outsider's world.
I can see the trend developing that many of you are concerned about in the forums and in the chat room. I certainly did not join this site to read about preferred sexual acts or be accosted for one night stands; I was looking for a place that I could ask questions without fear of prejudice, work through my reservations and guilt, meet people with similar feelings, and grow to better accept myself and others. If the members who embody these characteristics, like Risa, are being driven off, what hope do new members, like myself, who are looking for these qualities have?

[TwylaTwobits]

This thread is scary, because I joined this site in search of the community many of you are speaking of, but it sounds as though I came in at its decline. In fact, as a new, younger member I am worried that I will only ever be able to view that community externally, which feels like being an outsider in an outsider's world.
I can see the trend developing that many of you are concerned about in the forums and in the chat room. I certainly did not join this site to read about preferred sexual acts or be accosted for one night stands; I was looking for a place that I could ask questions without fear of prejudice, work through my reservations and guilt, meet people with similar feelings, and grow to better accept myself and others. If the members who embody these characteristics, like Risa, are being driven off, what hope do new members, like myself, who are looking for these qualities have?

This is thread is about keeping that community active, Omega. Don't let it scare ya, it's more my being completely pissed off that a friend is gone because someone didn't like the fact she posted about her dog, her husband, her friend, her life. Why was she told this, she posted an "oh please" after the nitpicking on a freaking LEGAL terminology of hookers. Why was there an issue? Reading back on someone's post it looks as though he has a family member involved in that profession and just can't handle them as a prostitute so it must be "sex trade worker".

The site has it's good and it's bad, but there is always the option to NOT read a post if you don't want to read it. No one is tying people's hands to the keyboard and making them respond either. I'm gonna shut up now before I really go off, but Omega, I hope you are enjoying the site and finding the community you were looking for. *Snags some of Cat's cookies and hands one to Omega*

[texasman6172003]

OMG Twyla!! Is THAT what this was all about?? Just because of what she called a worker in a certain field of work?? :rolleyes: You mean we can't even make a damn comment about some one's profession??:rolleyes: Give me a break.:rolleyes:

[TwylaTwobits]

Texas, read the thread so um have you hired an escort it's all there. Yeah I originally posted the word pro...umm sex trade worker as I posted a legal statement from a law site in NY, where the OP was asking about the question of escorts. It kinda snowballed from there.

[Lonewolf76]

If we did nigh, expressing of feelings that we have over the loss of a friend and loved one, then cold as the blood of a reptile would course through our veins.

We are not robots nor cold blooded creatures Rabbit - yes, life goes on - but many in these rooms have formed a bond of love and/or friendship, people that we have shared inspirations, hopes, joys, sadness as well as tears with. Though the emotions shared may not have been within a physical context, still they were shared. This is part of what being a caring human, a friend is about.

And let it be know and understood that the bond that has been formed in past, and that yet to come, is not the gathering of a "clique" - but more like the gathering of a like community, joined together for a common purpose - a family.

Doggie :doggie:

Exceptionally well stated Doggie!!! Rissa Baby - (If you're reading this) I don't know all that went down - but I hope for your eventual return. I just returned myself - so I understand the need to sometimes get away. Now I've lost you again! Just remember darlin' - you aren't part of a clique - but YOU MOST CERTAINLY ARE PART OF A FAMILY! Hope to hear from you again soon - you're one of a few that makes the old wolfie Howwwwwwllllllllll! Love ya babe. Wolfie

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

I was looking for a place that I could ask questions without fear of prejudice, work through my reservations and guilt, meet people with similar feelings, and grow to better accept myself and others. If the members who embody these characteristics, like Risa, are being driven off, what hope do new members, like myself, who are looking for these qualities have?

OMega-hon, you still can. Fear not, most of us are friendly and open minded to the cares and concerns of new folks on this site. You came here seeking enlightenment, many of us are happy to help. So feel free to talk, ask, question and voice concerns. Not every family is going to agree, and get along, and that's all this is...a family discussion. :}
So dont worry Sweetie..its ok. We wont let you run off, just like we wont let Riss be ran out. Its all good.
Hugzzz
Cat

[coyotedude]

People come here for all different reasons. Some come here for sex, others for strength, and still others for silliness. This is a diverse community that meets diverse needs. And that is good.

What is not good is when we don't treat each other with the respect due all human beings.

That doesn't mean we can't have disagreements; we are passionate people, and we are passionate about our beliefs and our values. We're not supposed to agree on everything under the sun.

But we should love one another. We should treat each other the way we want to be treated by others. And for the last several months, that simply hasn't been happening often enough in the forums.

I hope that Rissa will take a little time to cool down and then decide to come back. We as a community are less without her participation. And there are enough people here who care for her that I would hope she could continue to get something out of being here as well.

Peace

[Annika L]

I see this thread less as a space to mourn the sad loss of a dearly departed (although there is some element of that), and more as a town meeting to express anger and frustration with an idiocy that seems to have gripped certain elements of our community. There is indeed a rudeness and coarseness in the forums these days, *mostly* (in my opinion) not on the part of the longtimers.

Rissa didn't even use the offending word, tex...she simply posted "Oh, Please! :rolleyes:" in what I interpreted as frustration that someone was once again pissily nitpicking terms rather than engaging the spirit of a thread. In my opinion it was completely understandable frustration...correct use of terminology is very important to me, but enforcing PC terminology is just rank uptightness.

Regardless of Rissa's intent with her "Oh, Please! :rolleyes:", tenni's attack on her was completely inappropriate, tasteless, and bullying. Frankly, tenni, I think you've got a lot of balls posting on this thread with your little defensive BS criticizing her further (and throwing in a dig at others while your at it...cute).

Omega, I think the fact that this thread exists is more evidence that this community is still strong, than it is evidence that it is in decline...and I hope you stick around to be part of it. Yes (all), the community has changed...all communities change and evolve. But we still care, and when bad behavior reaches the point where longstanding members are getting fed up and leaving, we still rally around the cause, and voice our collective frustration.

Anyone who feels threatened by this can call it cliquish, mob rule, or schoolyard behavior. I would encourage anyone who feels that way to find another site where people behave more to their liking.

But it's irrational, because there is no rule here. Certainly not by mobs or cliques. The only one with the power to do anything direct is Drew. All the rest of us can do is start a thread like this and say "geez, it sucks that Rissa left because tenni was being a dickhead...I hope this kind of crap doesn't continue". That ain't mob-rule, folks.

Tenni, if you truly think we're jumping on you because we're in a clique and you're not part of it...grow the hell up.

[texasman6172003]

I see this thread less as a space to mourn the sad loss of a dearly departed (although there is some element of that), and more as a town meeting to express anger and frustration with an idiocy that seems to have gripped certain elements of our community. There is indeed a rudeness and coarseness in the forums these days, *mostly* (in my opinion) not on the part of the longtimers.

Rissa didn't even use the offending word, tex...she simply posted "Oh, Please! :rolleyes:" in what I interpreted as frustration that someone was once again pissily nitpicking terms rather than engaging the spirit of a thread. In my opinion it was completely understandable frustration...correct use of terminology is very important to me, but enforcing PC terminology is just rank uptightness.

Regardless of Rissa's intent with her "Oh, Please! :rolleyes:", tenni's attack on her was completely inappropriate, tasteless, and bullying. Frankly, tenni, I think you've got a lot of balls posting on this thread with your little defensive BS criticizing her further (and throwing in a dig at others while your at it...cute).

Omega, I think the fact that this thread exists is more evidence that this community is still strong, than it is evidence that it is in decline...and I hope you stick around to be part of it. Yes (all), the community has changed...all communities change and evolve. But we still care, and when bad behavior reaches the point where longstanding members are getting fed up and leaving, we still rally around the cause, and voice our collective frustration.

Anyone who feels threatened by this can call it cliquish, mob rule, or schoolyard behavior. I would encourage anyone who feels that way to find another site where people behave more to their liking.

But it's irrational, because there is no rule here. Certainly not by mobs or cliques. The only one with the power to do anything direct is Drew. All the rest of us can do is start a thread like this and say "geez, it sucks that Rissa left because tenni was being a dickhead...I hope this kind of crap doesn't continue". That ain't mob-rule, folks.

Tenni, if you truly think we're jumping on you because we're in a clique and you're not part of it...grow the hell up.

I understand that Nikker hon,I was just trying too understand what had happend,and when i thought i had heard what happend,i was just speaking my peace on it. As too whether or not Tenni did act that way,i don't know,if i over stepped my bounds here i apoligise. I just thought it was over some thing some one had simply said..

[12voltman59]

I missed all that happened to make Rissa upset and decidie to leave-at least for now--I do hope that at some point in the future--she does come back.

I always liked to see her posts.

She is probably on edge at present since even though her husband is coming back home from his deployment in Haiti very soon---she is probably feeling a bit overwhelmed due to his being gone---deployments seems to be rougher on the spouses and families than it is on the ones doing the deployment.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Hey Annika? What kinda cookies you like, Hon? I'm makin' ya a big batch...lol.
Yer Silly Cat

[mariersa]

Thanks Darkeyes, Still Shy, Bicurple(yes, I checked it) Cat and it made a lot of sense and thanx for the sensative logic. Unfortunately, a few posts later, here it is, the argumentative anger, not all, but some and, thankfully in general very supportive. But I agree, it seems that anymore, if you disagree with me or others , it's flame time, Yikes, somehow it seems to me, that's what this site wasn't designed for. Hell, if WE can"t get along then GOOD LUCK out there. Remember the Rules, which I have been reminded of for these past few years. (by the ober intelligencia (group) which doesn't exist) :eek: surprise they have self diagnosed each other, and they do rule !:rolleyes:

[Annika L]

Hey Annika? What kinda cookies you like, Hon? I'm makin' ya a big batch...lol.
Yer Silly Cat

Hey Kit-Cat...cookies are no lol-ing matter! White chocolate, macadamia (hmmm, maybe with ground oats?) or chocolate with caramel and almond would be *awesome*...thanks SO much!

(Did someone ask a while ago how you could win or lose at a thread? You lose if you damage your soul by attacking another person...you win if someone bakes you cookies! Woooooh!)

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

LOL You have only made 18 posts, yet you are qualified enough to comment about someone you dont know?? You're laughable, Dude. And the funny thing is, this exact wording was used sometime back.

The people who constantly post about how this site is their family or an actual real community that's very accepting when it's nothing but just a website, are sad and are the ones to watch out for since they are emotional energy vampires that thrive on drama, acceptance, and they do not have lives of their own or feel loved off site, they do not have that many friends off of this site and these people are not your friends as people have posted about before and there have been articles about internet friendships and relationships and how they're not real.

Get some new material, Son.
Cat (Who shall now fall under attack) LOL

[TwylaTwobits]

hmmmm think Bret missed this part of my OP

The rules only state that certain types of sex acts are not to be posted here, they state flame the idea, not the person. They do not state that any members contribution is less valid because some people want to only read about sex.


Bret....there is no point trying to explain to you how people from around the world can become as close or as far away from you as you want. I'd feel pity for you, but it would be wasted.

[darkeyes]

..and are we so rich in those of our kind that we can afford to offend and lose them back into the shadows? I think not.. the strength of the LGBT movement is its diversity..it can also be its greatest weakness.. because some may wish to discuss sex and sexuality does not mean everyone does on every occasion. I for one do not. I am much more than that.. and many others are also. Many wish to discuss the mundane of their lives, and some think that to be trivial.. We are human and we do not all think the same or have the same aspirations.. we should understand and accept that.. not bitch at each other..

Turning to the accusations of a clique existing.. several members have written telling me I am wrong in not accepting that there is a clique trying to dominate the site.. there are a number of small groups of people who get on with each other, and seem to gravitate to each other more than others. That I accept and it is only natural. But a clique with power trying to make the site what they want it to be and guide the agenda and subject matter and decide who is approved of? No I don't think so. They may stick together against criticism, but not always. There are individuals who try and stop debates which they don't like, get people banned they feel are unnaceptable and sometimes small groups gang up on others.. thats life. It happens.. get over it.. this isn't the real world however much we would like it to be.. in the real world there are proper cliques..and bloody nasty ones at that, with proper agendas... very unpleasant agendas.

There is no clique on this site.. at least not in the way some seem to believe. Or if there is, a right bloody inneffective lot they are is all I can say.. its ok if you believe I am wrong.. its not the end of the world and I can live with it.. but that doesn't make it so either..

[TwylaTwobits]

Hugs Fran, extremely well said. While we may not agree with every person's post, it is the freedom to disagree that makes this community unique.

[mrplayfuluk]

Being bisexual isn't just about sexual attraction and matters, the same people have lives too, and as people become familiar with each other on here they share more. It’s a mark of a good community when we rise above just creating sex threads, although as they aren't puerile they have their place too. It also shows new members that there is an established family where the bicurious can ask questions to members who will offer support if that’s what they are looking for.. In the case of the escort thread it was exactly that and well put.

Its easy to reduce 'internet friends' as something that aren't real but judging by the emotions displayed in the forums, for those people it is a real part of their lives and for some a precursor to coming out to a friend etc. We all have lives outside of here which is why I hadn't seen the negativity that entered the thread until I saw that Rissa had 'left'. Tenni, you used 'being PC' as a cheap way to prompt a reaction, and it looked like you got what you wanted; I hope you're proud of yourself. Baiting other members is tantamount to flaming and is potential troll behaviour and Tenni, just because you've been here almost as long as myself it doesn't make you immune to turning trollish. Long time members are well aware that getting personal is out of order and unfortunately familiarity breeds contempt even in forums.

Its taken me awhile to learn this, but as my father once said 'if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing'; that doesn't mean don't react to the opinion, just don't attack the person.

I may not have read Rissa's personal stuff in detail, (because I chose not to), but I will defend her right to post it.

..and Tenni, be warned, I am the enemy of the PC police, Lenny Bruce is my inspiration for that, and using it as a device to bait people is unbecoming from a 'super member'.

Lets all bring some positivity back to this place and show all those who have left that we are still worth being joined at the keyboard when we have time.

Ps. Also appears in the 'Escort' thread 'cause I can't write it twice!

[TwylaTwobits]

Thanks for that post, MrPlayful. This site is about more than just a penis and a vagina and the wish to be with both at the same time. It's about people being people.

[cliffordmontero]

Well, being a member here for slightly longer than some, but no where near as long as others, I read a lot of the treads posted and fell I am starting to get to know some of you a little. I see people who clearly have been friends on here for years, and I can understand why you would be upset over someone leaving. It isn't so much that you can't communicate with her privately any longer, its that she won't be contributing to the threads. No longer will her input be there, and that will be missed, even by a newbie like me (sorry, 6 months vs some of you guys 6 years, I am a newbie here).

I am a member of another site and have been since 2004 so I understand when someone you communicate regularly leaves it is a sad moment. And unfortunately it happens all too often because of someones rude and insensitive remarks. Thankfully I have found the ignore button on most sites I am a member of and I use it. I may miss out on part of a conversation here or there, but for the most part I miss nothing but fools striving for attention. I won't lie, occasionally a troll or two will get me going. It happens.

Some of you have said the site seems "cliqueish", and maybe thats true, maybe. Have any of you looked at some of the clique's "member since" dates? Most of these people have been members years, I have noticed back to 2005. Of course these people are going to seem like a clique, they have years of conversations and know each other. I know sometimes it feels like your the new kid in school and no one wants to talk to you, but guess what, you ARE the new kid in school. It is going to take time to get to know these people. Give it time.

As far as someone responding to a thread they didn't like, why would anyone do that. If you don't like it, don't respond. Let the thread die. I know I maybe guilty of responding negatively on a thread or two, but seriously think about it. Many people are just too lazy to click to see the threads that don't appear on the home page. If you don't respond it will slowly get buried and forgotten.

Maybe I am still new to this site, but to those of you who are new like me, take some time. Look around. You will see that there is a community here. Most of the people here are friendly and supportive. Most of the rest are indifferent. And the few that you feel are trolls . . . take a few minutes and find that ignore button!

If you truly can't find the ignore button, open someones profile and look for the green bar that crosses the page under their name . . . there should be two buttons in it . . . one to add to your buddy list and one to ignore . . . click ignore and then save your list . . . just in case your wondering.

[mrplayfuluk]

Clifford, I applaud you...

its reassuring that newer members can see this site as it is and with you on board it will grow; keep on posting!

[cliffordmontero]

Thanks MrPlayfulUK, I appreciate that . . . after years on another website its easy to see the problems on any site where the main lure is sexuality are going to parallel each other . . . hopefully we can ignore the trolls to obscurity and lure the new people into active members fostering the community into something we can be proud of (or continue to be proud of) . . . and you can call me Cliff

[Annika L]

I guess I don't get all the conversation and speculation over whether this site is about sex/sexuality or whether it's about people. Any site is about what its members want it to be about...all of its members: not just the longtimers or just the newbies.

Rissa's "Oh Please" wasn't about her thinking "geez, not another sex thread"...that was just what tenni assumed it was about...she made that pretty clear before she left. So this question is fairly irrelevant to the purpose of this thread.

This conversation isn't (or in my mind shouldn't be) about whether it's appropriate to have sexual or nonsexual topics discussed in threads. It is about the consequences of attacking another person in the forums, or of just being rude and insensitive to people in the forums (or in chat for that matter).

I don't think Rissa left because she couldn't handle tenni's petty sniping jibe (it wasn't so very brilliant or devastating, after all). I think she left because such sniping jibes (and the nitpickiness that led to her "oh please" post) have become commonplace here (and not just from tenni, by any means), and she no longer feels that she can get the kind of civil dialog and supportive atmosphere that she originally came here for.

That decline in civility and supportiveness is what concerns me (and I think is at the heart of a lot of the concern expressed in this thread by many members). I'm NOT saying we should be all warm, fuzzy, and affirming all the time...part of support is offering a dissenting view in a respectful manner, so readers have access to other sides of an argument or position, or perhaps can see a broader context for a discussion that they may have been seeing from a limited point of view. In short, disagreement is fine; disrespect and intolerance are not.

And yes, dammit, if this exchange had been between tenni and a newbie, rather than between tenni and Rissa, I would certainly still speak out against it. In fact, I would be angrier and *more* likely to respond if the attack was on a newbie, exactly *because* I feel that this sort of attack discourages good and thoughtful people from coming and posting here. Again, is this simply a matter of clique members defending one another? I think not.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Hey Annika? Pass Cliff and Play a cookie, would ya Darlin? lol
Kudo's gentlemen. :} Nicely done.
Cat

[bicurcple]

Why can't we all just get along, we read what Tenni said and agree it was in bad taste. We too enjoy reading Rissa's point of view on many subjects, just like we enjoy Cat's, Twyla's, White's, and even Darkeye's...LOL(sorry Darkeye's the franspeak is difficult for us to get through from time to time...but we are getting better)...Our point is that we should all embrace each others differences, Wouldn't Drew want us all to get along. We too agree that if you don't like something don't read it....and personal attacks should not be tolerated. We are not saying we are perfect, we know we have responded harshly to some things on here that particularly set us off, but we are trying to adhere to others advice and not do that anymore. We do hope Rissa comes back. Let's all mature a little and support one another.

[bicurcple]

Why can't we all just get along, we read what Tenni said and agree it was in bad taste. We too enjoy reading Rissa's point of view on many subjects, just like we enjoy Cat's, Twyla's, White's, and even Darkeye's...LOL(sorry Darkeye's the franspeak is difficult for us to get through from time to time...but we are getting better)...Our point is that we should all embrace each others differences, Wouldn't Drew want us all to get along. We too agree that if you don't like something don't read it....and personal attacks should not be tolerated. We are not saying we are perfect, we know we have responded harshly to some things on here that particularly set us off, but we are trying to adhere to others advice and not do that anymore. We do hope Rissa comes back. Let's all mature a little and support one another.

Okay.....maybe not White's points.

[citystyleguy]

...so sorry to hear one of the sane here has taken a beating, and then found it necessary to retreat!

too often there are those who only seek to tear down others for whatever vanity they seek. one of the sane here took it upon themselves to adivse me via email that another should be avoided for the same tactics; not aware as to the who, when, and where, i asked for more info, but was wisely told that it was best not go further.

as i still dont know anymore than i do now, i have left i alone; i find these types who choose to attack without reason not worth the bother. like their posts, best scanned for content, only to be fond empty of substance, and passed over for someone more centered and sane!

in unity, and hoping our injured friend returns soon!

[cliffordmontero]

:tong: stares and annika and cat anxiously awaiting a cookie :tong:

What kinda cookie am I getting?

[TwylaTwobits]

Sighs and looks at her dwindling platter from Cat...starts handing out the rest of the cookies and looks to Cat for a refill. We got chocolate chip, peanut butter, white chocolate macadamia nuts and a lone sugar cookie with sprinkles. Take your pick, Cliff :)

[cliffordmontero]

whooo hooooo chocolate chip yqy lol

[Canticle]

All sites even this one have their cliques, the status quo, popularity contests, and mob rule as we've seen with the posts in this topic and a few others about how people like to think that random strangers on the internet are an actual community or take the place of actual friends and family which is quite sad when you think about it.

The people who constantly post about how this site is their family or an actual real community that's very accepting when it's nothing but just a website, are sad and are the ones to watch out for since they are emotional energy vampires that thrive on drama, acceptance, and they do not have lives of their own or feel loved off site, they do not have that many friends off of this site and these people are not your friends as people have posted about before and there have been articles about internet friendships and relationships and how they're not real.

If some random person who was not that well known on this site posted a drama ridden post like Rissa did about leaving nobody would care.

Rise above it and all the petty BS that they love to throw around about acceptance and be a free thinker.

What Tenni posted in this topic was not offensive and who cares if one mental midget like Rissa thought that it was? If you've noticed a lot of posts by people in the clique have nothing to do with sex, bisexuality, or sexuality at all and are more suited for private messages, emails, blogs, and not on this site and wasting space on the forum and are not suited for this site.


You know something, whilst I can agree with some of your points, you lost me, with your last paragraph. I do not mean, that I couldn't understand it.....you just lost me from agreeing with anything you said.....on principle!!!

Rissa is no mental midget! She is a very intelligent young woman, who just happens to be talented too.

By what you say in this paragraph, am I right in thinking, that you believe that a site for bisexuals, should be about nothing more than sex, bisexuality or sexuality? Am I? If so, why are you here?

Is being bisexual, to you, just about sex with men and women, and nothing about who you, as an individual, may be. Your thoughts, your hopes, your dreams. Do you not think that people are far more, than what is between their legs?

Bisexuals are people! People have thoughts....they express them. People have hopes.....they talk about them and how to achieve them. People have dreams and discuss how, one day, those dreams may come true.

Life, for the majority of people upon this planet, is not super-hero, comic book, exciting. People have marriages, divorces, children, work, mortgages, bills to pay, food to buy, animals to look after, People here, have to deal with life, as well as death, illness, as well as good health. People here have to live the same kind of life as their next door neighbour.....just a life....getting on with it.....trying to do their best by others and trying to be decent and honest people.

People.....you know...humans..male and female....different sexualities, races, colours and creeds.....and yet you think the site should be here for bisexuals to express opinons about only, sex....being bisexual....sexuality etc.

Gee....and I thought that there were far more important things for people to discuss....their lives, what they believe in, who they love, what they hate to eat, who they wouldn't vote for.....you know....being people....communicating as people.....not as just a......well. I won't say it.....because I won't get vulgar, just because you've pissed me off..but we are all, far more than our genitalia.

No cookies for you...ever! Takes your stache and shares them with the rest of the people on the site. Wow!.....they are still in their wrappers!

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

lol Those be endless cookie plates, love. They never end. So feel free to pass them out; just like love, they are meant to be given out freely, and often.;)
Cat

[Lonewolf76]

lol Those be endless cookie plates, love. They never end. So feel free to pass them out; just like love, they are meant to be given out freely, and often.;)
Cat

I just read a field study - Love cookies contain no calories - so chomp away!!!! LOL Wolfie

[darkeyes]

You know something, whilst I can agree with some of your points, you lost me, with your last paragraph. I do not mean, that I couldn't understand it.....you just lost me from agreeing with anything you said.....on principle!!!

Rissa is no mental midget! She is a very intelligent young woman, who just happens to be talented too.

By what you say in this paragraph, am I right in thinking, that you believe that a site for bisexuals, should be about nothing more than sex, bisexuality or sexuality? Am I? If so, why are you here?

Is being bisexual, to you, just about sex with men and women, and nothing about who you, as an individual, may be. Your thoughts, your hopes, your dreams. Do you not think that people are far more, than what is between their legs?

Bisexuals are people! People have thoughts....they express them. People have hopes.....they talk about them and how to achieve them. People have dreams and discuss how, one day, those dreams may come true.

Life, for the majority of people upon this planet, is not super-hero, comic book, exciting. People have marriages, divorces, children, work, mortgages, bills to pay, food to buy, animals to look after, People here, have to deal with life, as well as death, illness, as well as good health. People here have to live the same kind of life as their next door neighbour.....just a life....getting on with it.....trying to do their best by others and trying to be decent and honest people.

People.....you know...humans..male and female....different sexualities, races, colours and creeds.....and yet you think the site should be here for bisexuals to express opinons about only, sex....being bisexual....sexuality etc.

Gee....and I thought that there were far more important things for people to discuss....their lives, what they believe in, who they love, what they hate to eat, who they wouldn't vote for.....you know....being people....communicating as people.....not as just a......well. I won't say it.....because I won't get vulgar, just because you've pissed me off..but we are all, far more than our genitalia.

No cookies for you...ever! Takes your stache and shares them with the rest of the people on the site. Wow!.....they are still in their wrappers!

aaahhh..at last..sum 1 who undastands... Canticle an me don agree alla the time..but on this..she has hit the spot...

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

LOL Leers at Wolfie. Careful. that's how we got Eegie, remember? lol
Wanna cookie lil boy? ;):bigrin:
Cat, off to bake more cookies....:)

[elian]

You know every once in a while I beg your'all indulgence, say my piece and then get off - life is too short to be constantly bickering back and forth until the whole thing comes crashing down like a flabbergasted calliope and the thread degenerates into a personal attack.

It amazes me how much energy people can spend on that sort of thing when it's so much easier to just let it go and go with the flow. I've seen a lot of that in the threads lately and it's not flattering - it's sort of like that guy you go out with on a blind date who can't stop talking about his ex-girlfriend.

Oh, an' thanks for puttin' up with my crap.

-E

[darkeyes]

You know every once in a while I beg your'all indulgence, say my piece and then get off - life is too short to be constantly bickering back and forth until the whole thing comes crashing down like a flabbergasted calliope and the thread degenerates into a personal attack.

It amazes me how much energy people can spend on that sort of thing when it's so much easier to just let it go and go with the flow. I've seen a lot of that in the threads lately and it's not flattering - it's sort of like that guy you go out with on a blind date who can't stop talking about his ex-girlfriend.

Oh, an' thanks for puttin' up with my crap.

-E

Easier sure for the mos part..but wenya care?? Not so Elian.. not so..

[elian]

Easier sure for the mos part..but wenya care?? Not so Elian.. not so..

Yes, well thankfully not so many people have ripped into me the way they have done with others. This site is sort of like family - after a while you get to know the quirks of the folks posting and either you like them enough to love them for who they are - or you don't. I just don't see muchuva point in beating my head against the desk repeatedly - when the sun is shining there are better things..

I try to let people speak their own opinion - I also try to imagine (when I'm not being egotistical) what I would feel if I was in the other person's shoes..better be prepared to hear an opinion back as well.

Kinda like those folks in the wider world that are always complaining about how they are offended by the stuff on the radio, or the TV - those devices are equipped with tuners and knobs or buttons that change the frequency - it's not my fault if there are folks who don't know how to change the channel.

[darkeyes]

I try to let people speak their own opinion - but had better be prepared to hear one back.



We not ver far apart Elian... an on the wee bit above..far 2 many wanna 'ear ther voice an fuk ne 1 else.... is no wnda peeps r effin off.....:(

[Lonewolf76]

LOL Leers at Wolfie. Careful. that's how we got Eegie, remember? lol
Wanna cookie lil boy? ;):bigrin:
Cat, off to bake more cookies....:)

Howwwwwwllllllllll!!!!! Here kitty kitty! Lmao. Hugs & kisses cat! Wolfie

[mrplayfuluk]

Just read Canticle's comments .. Cat pass her two cookies that was so on the money. I just hope Rissa takes a sneaky peak and realizes how much support she has... I think that our recent troll attacks ( and I'm not suggesting Tenni is a troll, just trollish), have sensitized us to bad behavior and as there is no official moderator we do a pretty good job collectively as this thread shows.

[Doggie_Wood]

Rat shit, bat shit, dirty ole' twat
69 assholes tied in a knot
HOOOOOOORAAAYYYYYYYYYY -- - - FUCK!!!!

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:


damn - where did that come from? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Dogggie? You been eatin that cookie dough raw again??? bad Doggie...lol
Cat

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

I think that our recent troll attacks ( and I'm not suggesting Tenni is a troll, just trollish), have sensitized us to bad behavior and as there is no official moderator we do a pretty good job collectively as this thread shows.

Peer pressure can be a good thing at times, and sometimes things are best handled "In House" :} I think Drew knows us and trusts us enough to use our own good judgement and handle things like grown, mature adults. And remember people, the Iggy button IS your friend..:}
Cat

[cliffordmontero]

oh yes, the iggy button is my friend . . . i have a few people on it already lol

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Hey, opinions are many and varied. Thank you for yours. HAND. Have A Nice Day.
Cat

[Billys_gurl]

Holy... CRAP! You mean there are cliques, and gangs on here?!?!?! I thought it was people that actually gave a damn about each other. HOW RUDE :rolleyes:!!! My gosh does the ,if you don't agree with it don't read it, comment go over EVERYONES head.

I'm sorry that was my tantrum for the evening. I think that alot of us newer members are overlooking the fact that some of these 'clique' members have been here 5 years or so. THEY ARE FRIENDS!! More so than any of the rest of us will ever be, because we aren't willing to open ourselves up to each other as they have done. Why does that make them a clique? I'm sorry but I say a few of you are misleading the rest into thinking this. The site is supposed to be a safe haven for us to come, get advice, talk out our problems, and not be afraid of what we may just be learning or figuring out about ourselves. When I first joined, the people that welcomed me were all members of this evil clique. They were nice, and offered whatever advice I asked for. If that is bad, I want to join their dark side and be a member of the clique. Do we get cool jackets, or at least a funny hat?

[Canticle]

Just read Canticle's comments .. Cat pass her two cookies that was so on the money. I just hope Rissa takes a sneaky peak and realizes how much support she has... I think that our recent troll attacks ( and I'm not suggesting Tenni is a troll, just trollish), have sensitized us to bad behavior and as there is no official moderator we do a pretty good job collectively as this thread shows.

I'll pass on the cookies, but thanks for the kind thought. I'm not a big cookie fan. Too sugary sweet for me. More the salad and fruit type, or a bar of Cadbury's chocolate...at least until they get owned by Kraft.

I don't believe in trolls, or calling people trolls. Ones person's troll, is another person's bosom buddy and ''thinks alike pal.'' If a so called troll, says something worthwhile, I'll comment...if not, I'll ignore it.

Tenni...trollish...not one bit. Tenni is highly intelligent and airs his views. He has to put over his case, his way and should not be expected (and neither should anyone else), to post in a certain manner. Long may he continue to irritate the hairs, upon the back of the neck.

Tenni made a mistake. I truly do not believe, he meant to insult Rissa. His words were, a bit like blurting out the wrong thing, during a face to face conversation. I think he has been well and truly reprimanded.

Perhaps the cookies, should now be allowed to crumble.

[MarieDelta]

Do we get cool jackets, or at least a funny hat?
Hat and Jacket on order :tong:

http://www.leatherlollipop.com/prod_images_blowup/SH7021_LADIES_LEATHER_JACKET.jpghttp://images0.cafepress.com/product/69365520v3_225x225_Front.jpg

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

*Darth Vader breathng* Billy's Gurl...come over to the dark side....we have cookies!!!!:bigrin:;)
Cat, instigator elite....lol

[mrplayfuluk]

I'll repeat this until eventually peeps will hear it. There is no active moderator on this site... Drew, who to the newer members, might believe he is some mythical figure or god to the more longer standing members has allowed this site to operate without a heavy hand. He only exercises his control of the site when things get really out of order.

Like any collection of individuals that constantly communicate, rules gradually evolve. To be honest this site has a very open attitude and the regulars encourage and support those who maybe new, who ask questions that aren't necessarily sexual. The price we pay for this open environment is that trolls find it easy to come in and cause disruption. Azrael who came in was a real troll with multiple logins( sorry Canticle but they really exist), he even had a 'troll' site encouraging people to go to bisexual.com and explained how to attack people. Like all internet bullies he started writing offensive personal emails; he got found out and pleaded illness, in his case Aspergers; as it turned out that was a lie as well as he explained on his blog that it was a good way to avoid getting banned. The perception of people on here ganging up on others has come from a natural defense of these attacks. This place is precious for us because of the very nature of what brings us here in the first place, like any minority we stay close for protection. I saw bisexuality recently described as' a refuge for the pathetically horny'.

Billy's girl is right there's no clique. I don't really 'know' the regulars on this site and sometimes I'll put time into writing what I feel about a thread on here and it will be ignored; I don't expect privileges Even so I have time for those who are regulars here and as Billys Gurl put it you get to know how others think and feel purely from their writings, so the dialogue can be perceived as cliquish.

Two of Drew's rules sum up all we need to appreciate from the consequences this topic. A clique is an exclusive club that shares views and keep others out. If some of the newer members read some of the epic arguments of the past (ask Fran for example about Gaza!), then you'd realise we don't all agree and we thrive on new input. So as Billy Gurl said there's no real clique.

The rules from Drew are simple

Be polite - flame the idea if you feel you must, but not the person.

Have fun. Learn. Share. Entertain. Discuss. Argue. Enlighten.


If we can all get on then the fireworks will be more entertaining.

[darkeyes]

I'll pass on the cookies, but thanks for the kind thought. I'm not a big cookie fan. Too sugary sweet for me. More the salad and fruit type, or a bar of Cadbury's chocolate...at least until they get owned by Kraft.

I don't believe in trolls, or calling people trolls. Ones person's troll, is another person's bosom buddy and ''thinks alike pal.'' If a so called troll, says something worthwhile, I'll comment...if not, I'll ignore it.

Tenni...trollish...not one bit. Tenni is highly intelligent and airs his views. He has to put over his case, his way and should not be expected (and neither should anyone else), to post in a certain manner. Long may he continue to irritate the hairs, upon the back of the neck.

Tenni made a mistake. I truly do not believe, he meant to insult Rissa. His words were, a bit like blurting out the wrong thing, during a face to face conversation. I think he has been well and truly reprimanded.

Perhaps the cookies, should now be allowed to crumble.

Just once or twice, when I have posted throwaway comments I have been accused of being patronising.. and occasionally there is justice in the claim.. Tenni, I suspect, made his comment out of some frustration and exasperation.. it was insensitive and not terribly nice, but sometimes we are not very nice... I am no exception, being as flawed as anyone else.. but while Tenni may have been insensitive and a bit crass, he wasn't deliberately setting out to hurt Ris.. exasperation makes us say the most awful things at times.. we don't all see this site in the same light..we use it differently for reasons of our own. I think Tenni forgot that for a minute, just as I and many of us have in the past, and no doubt shall again. I do not excuse the daft bugger, but having been responsible for the odd insensitve and patronising comment myself I can at least understand a little why he said it.. just as I understand why Ris took the greatest exception to what he said.. what is important to one isn't necessarily what is important to another.. Ris' s family is her life..thats is important..

[Long Duck Dong]

I remember when I was a newer member of the site, a issue blew up in the site... and yeah, I was the one that started it off..... lol

what happened was I was talking about friends of mine, and I used the term *coloured people *.... immediately there was a backlash as I was not using the term * people of colour *, another member took offense because she did not like the term ( the same member and myself locked horns a few times over how I was not posting in a manner that she deemed acceptable )

I see the same with tenni, a term was used that they found, unacceptable... and things turned to shit from there....

that is the key .... in a site with many variables of communication, there is bound to be conflicts over terms used.... but the trouble is, when we ask others not to post using terms that we have a personal issue with....
we are saying to people to change their style of non offensive terms, to terms that we are not taking offense to

while I respect what tenni was saying, I also understand what was being asked.... could the members not use another term to describe something as somebody was offended by it
that seems reasonable.... until you look at the list of things that we talk about that can be deemed offensive to people.....

and it brings us back to one thing.... we can find things offensive, but telling others how they can and can not refer to things, is offensive as well

if we were not to talk about things or use terms that people found offensive.... the forum would be about as active as a eunuchs dick.. and thats the last thing we want...

[darkeyes]

Lolllllll..think me membas the thread Duckie me luffly.. an actually don like eitha the term "coloured people" or "people of colour"..cos we r all people of colour..u an I for instance r not "white" r we? An wen we refer 2 the expression "skin coloured" we r referrin to the skin of "white" peeps as if the skin colas a asian, latin, an african an ne 1 else not "white" r not skin colas.. won say me gets offended by ne a these expressions.. jus don like 'em very much..an can c wy peeps do get offended by 'em.. sum peeps get offended by callin peeps "black" or "yellow".. can c ther point an all.. no 1 is black..an no 1 is yellow (not unless ya hav bad case a jaundice).. don think callin peeps European, or African or Asian is always that satisfactory eitha tho we do.. descriptors can b an r often offensive an inadequate wen we talkin bout ethnicity an we can't b all things 2 all peeps.. we all do it in 1 way or totha.. but we r all human (at least me thinks we r) an mayb its best we jus refer 2 each otha as that.. tho even that is inadequate wen describin peeps in ne way.. such is the complexity an variation a the human race..

[TwylaTwobits]

I have never really broken out anyone as a certain race, we are all people. I don't let it influence my daily life that much either. I will admit to at times being wary when walking alone to a car if someone looked rough that was hanging around. Not because they were another race but because to the untrained eye they looked dangerous.

I remember once I got between a couple employees at the steakhouse, they were boyfriend/girlfriend and I was not having it in my place. I told the guy to get back to work. He told me "You white people just like ordering black people around" I replied "I don't care if you are black, white, purple or plaid. I'm paying you to cook so get on the grill or clock out for the last time" To my surprise a couple of the other kitchen workers were right there behind me going "Peanut, she ain't racist get yer ass in that kitchen" I was one of the people who didn't care as long as you did your job, if you didn't I was the bitch of the west to all.

In regards to offensive terms on here. I can see why some would take certain things as offensive but when you are talking legal terminology unless the law is changed then it's the word that is going to be used commonly. Saying that calling someone who sells sex for a living shouldn't be called a prostitute as a sex trade worker is fine, but don't tell me I should call gay people "fags" or lesbians "dykes" or any other really offensive term that comes out of the recesses of minds that can't accept the unique differences in human culture.

[darkeyes]

I have never really broken out anyone as a certain race, we are all people. I don't let it influence my daily life that much either. I will admit to at times being wary when walking alone to a car if someone looked rough that was hanging around. Not because they were another race but because to the untrained eye they looked dangerous.

I remember once I got between a couple employees at the steakhouse, they were boyfriend/girlfriend and I was not having it in my place. I told the guy to get back to work. He told me "You white people just like ordering black people around" I replied "I don't care if you are black, white, purple or plaid. I'm paying you to cook so get on the grill or clock out for the last time" To my surprise a couple of the other kitchen workers were right there behind me going "Peanut, she ain't racist get yer ass in that kitchen" I was one of the people who didn't care as long as you did your job, if you didn't I was the bitch of the west to all.

In regards to offensive terms on here. I can see why some would take certain things as offensive but when you are talking legal terminology unless the law is changed then it's the word that is going to be used commonly. Saying that calling someone who sells sex for a living shouldn't be called a prostitute as a sex trade worker is fine, but don't tell me I should call gay people "fags" or lesbians "dykes" or any other really offensive term that comes out of the recesses of minds that can't accept the unique differences in human culture.

aaahh vive la difference..:)

[Long Duck Dong]

lol nods, in nz we are refered to as european ( its a skin tone ????) caucasian ( it actually refers to people of lighter skin tones in asia and africa ) pakeha ( a maori term for any person not originally from nz and means foreigner / visitor and in some areas, dogshit )

but there is no actual term for people like me that are * milky bar kids *.. tho i should not joke about that either as nestle ( the company that produces milky bars (( white chocolate)) got in the shit cos they were not auditioning kids of different skin tones for the role of a child that was of a light skin tone )
PC and equal rights got mad if you ask me, cos the company ended the milky bar kid ads on tv in the end just to keep the peace

me, I am scottish in skin tone..... red if I am drunk, panting, angry or sunburnt.... white if I am scared, just seen the power bill, over used the talc, or imitating a vampire and hiding from the sun... green if I am sick, jealous or forgot that I used my hand for a snot rag and rubbed my face.... blue if I am feeling down, forgot to breath or am holding the spray paint can the wrong way...... sighs.....

[darkeyes]

me, I am scottish in skin tone..... red if I am drunk, panting, angry or sunburnt.... white if I am scared, just seen the power bill, over used the talc, or imitating a vampire and hiding from the sun... green if I am sick, jealous or forgot that I used my hand for a snot rag and rubbed my face.... blue if I am feeling down, forgot to breath or am holding the spray paint can the wrong way...... sighs.....

ahhh..me knos the type... c 'em every day of week...:tong:

[MarieDelta]

In regards to offensive terms on here. I can see why some would take certain things as offensive but when you are talking legal terminology unless the law is changed then it's the word that is going to be used commonly. Saying that calling someone who sells sex for a living shouldn't be called a prostitute as a sex trade worker is fine, but don't tell me I should call gay people "fags" or lesbians "dykes" or any other really offensive term that comes out of the recesses of minds that can't accept the unique differences in human culture.

But whats the difference between working in a sewage treatment plant and working as a hooker? Between a stripper and a politician? Between a cop and a call girl? Between an engineer and a porn star?

We all use what assets we have.

[littlerayofsunshine]

It's a shame that Rissa has felt the need to go. Something that once was a escape and a relief is now nothing more than a hunting ground with words for knives and arrows. There is no information here, and only half assed support that is said only because it sounds good.

I don't blame her for leaving, Just like I left. I never in my life understood how "Support" could be offered and then within the same post negated to mean nothing.

It was unfair how she was personally attacked, over blanket statement that really wasn't meant to anyone. And Yes. He meant to do it, Just like he means to berate anyone ( mostly women) for anything he doesn't agree with. Which is his right. But doesn't make it right.

The members here prune this site to be what it is. But the garden has been left unattended for so long. Most of the beautiful flowers have died, while a few struggle to live, and the weeds are taking over.

Drew, This site was once a wonderful place, and a life saver for me back 5 years ago. But it is no more for me, and I think part of you feels the same. I wish it weren't this way. The respect that once thrived here, no longer exists and pettiness runs abundant. I just wanted you to know, I appreciated what you had made and apologize for that it has become.

To the rest of you.... best wishes and fond farewells.

[MarieDelta]

I'm sorry to see you go Littleray, I understand why , but still I am sorry.

Best of luck to you where ever your journey takes you...

[darkeyes]

It's a shame that Rissa has felt the need to go. Something that once was a escape and a relief is now nothing more than a hunting ground with words for knives and arrows. There is no information here, and only half assed support that is said only because it sounds good.

I don't blame her for leaving, Just like I left. I never in my life understood how "Support" could be offered and then within the same post negated to mean nothing.

It was unfair how she was personally attacked, over blanket statement that really wasn't meant to anyone. And Yes. He meant to do it, Just like he means to berate anyone ( mostly women) for anything he doesn't agree with. Which is his right. But doesn't make it right.

The members here prune this site to be what it is. But the garden has been left unattended for so long. Most of the beautiful flowers have died, while a few struggle to live, and the weeds are taking over.

Drew, This site was once a wonderful place, and a life saver for me back 5 years ago. But it is no more for me, and I think part of you feels the same. I wish it weren't this way. The respect that once thrived here, no longer exists and pettiness runs abundant. I just wanted you to know, I appreciated what you had made and apologize for that it has become.

To the rest of you.... best wishes and fond farewells.

*sniff*.. unfluffed tidgies will b left unfluffed.. *sniff sniff*

Being more serious (unfluffed tidgies is not?) Ray is right..this isn't the same site as it once was..it could never stay the same..but there is an unpleasant edge which was never there. No site can stagnate and live.. but as it changes it should change for the better.. I don't think we can say this can be said to be the case for .com...

I miss you Ray and will keep on missing you.. if only for fluffing (but for moren that honest:tong:).. be happy darling.. but look in occasionally..who knows..the day may come when .com does pick up and the pettiness and unpleasantness finally evaporates and once again all in the garden will be rosy (well..better anyway;))

[Canticle]

Just once or twice, when I have posted throwaway comments I have been accused of being patronising.. and occasionally there is justice in the claim.. Tenni, I suspect, made his comment out of some frustration and exasperation.. it was insensitive and not terribly nice, but sometimes we are not very nice... I am no exception, being as flawed as anyone else.. but while Tenni may have been insensitive and a bit crass, he wasn't deliberately setting out to hurt Ris.. exasperation makes us say the most awful things at times.. we don't all see this site in the same light..we use it differently for reasons of our own. I think Tenni forgot that for a minute, just as I and many of us have in the past, and no doubt shall again. I do not excuse the daft bugger, but having been responsible for the odd insensitve and patronising comment myself I can at least understand a little why he said it.. just as I understand why Ris took the greatest exception to what he said.. what is important to one isn't necessarily what is important to another.. Ris' s family is her life..thats is important..

Very well put Fran. Very well put, indeed.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Then dont ya'll think its up to us, the remaining members in good standing, to do something about it? Couldnt we collectively contact Drew and voice our concerns, or Offer to help him out? Instead of complaining we should do something to help improve our conditions, and make things better once again. :}

Maybe if a couple of us offered to Be mods, then we could keep a quiet eye on the goings on and try to keep the peace. I know in a couple of writing groups that I Mod for, warnings are given to someone who is causing a major prob and warned to tone down their attitudes a tad. If it continues and they continue being a butthead, they are put on moderated status, meaning that their posts are read and must be approved before being posted, or they are removed from the group, period. Just something to think on, Loves. :}
In the words of my generation "You cant solve a problem by not acting on it" ;)
Cat

[Canticle]

''I'll repeat this until eventually peeps will hear it. There is no active moderator on this site... Drew, who to the newer members, might believe he is some mythical figure or god to the more longer standing members has allowed this site to operate without a heavy hand. He only exercises his control of the site when things get really out of order.''

Moderators, or Admin are not always a good idea, for some can become like little Hitlers and abuse their position. I see this on other, moderated sites. If a moderator takes a personal dislike to someone, they can abuse the position that they have been given and then. on the other side of the coin, you get totally inept, usless Moderators and Admin, who haven't got a clue, what they are doing and bounce and ban the wrong people.

''Like any collection of individuals that constantly communicate, rules gradually evolve. To be honest this site has a very open attitude and the regulars encourage and support those who maybe new, who ask questions that aren't necessarily sexual. The price we pay for this open environment is that trolls find it easy to come in and cause disruption. Azrael who came in was a real troll with multiple logins( sorry Canticle but they really exist), he even had a 'troll' site encouraging people to go to bisexual.com and explained how to attack people. Like all internet bullies he started writing offensive personal emails; he got found out and pleaded illness, in his case Aspergers; as it turned out that was a lie as well as he explained on his blog that it was a good way to avoid getting banned.''

There will always be people like Azrael, but never, would I call them trolls, or become paranoid about such things. Azrael is not the only one with multiple names on here (and NO that is not me, I don't need to have many names in use here, for I am not some sad and pathetic person). Azrael was definitely...is definitely....not the only one.

If someone like Azrael comes, just to disrupt, then, Yes, he/she.whoever, should be dealt with accordingly, but throwing out the name ''troll'' can be a big mistake and I think it is done, sometimes, just because one person, may not agree with what another says.

''The perception of people on here ganging up on others has come from a natural defense of these attacks. This place is precious for us because of the very nature of what brings us here in the first place, like any minority we stay close for protection. I saw bisexuality recently described as' a refuge for the pathetically horny'.''

Staying too close can sometimes cocoon a group, any group.

''Billy's girl is right there's no clique. I don't really 'know' the regulars on this site and sometimes I'll put time into writing what I feel about a thread on here and it will be ignored; I don't expect privileges Even so I have time for those who are regulars here and as Billys Gurl put it you get to know how others think and feel purely from their writings, so the dialogue can be perceived as cliquish.''

Hmm

''Two of Drew's rules sum up all we need to appreciate from the consequences this topic. A clique is an exclusive club that shares views and keep others out. If some of the newer members read some of the epic arguments of the past (ask Fran for example about Gaza!), then you'd realise we don't all agree and we thrive on new input. So as Billy Gurl said there's no real clique.''

Hmm

''The rules from Drew are simple

Be polite - flame the idea if you feel you must, but not the person.

Have fun. Learn. Share. Entertain. Discuss. Argue. Enlighten.''

More often than not, what is the idea also makes the person who they are, so flaming a person (an expression I had not heard, until I came here), is inevitable. All in the land, can never be cosy and all coffie and cookies.

''If we can all get on then the fireworks will be more entertaining.''

Getting on with everyone, I believe, would make for a false world and I don't leave reality behind, when I enter a chat room, or a forum. Do you?

[Canticle]

I remember when I was a newer member of the site, a issue blew up in the site... and yeah, I was the one that started it off..... lol

what happened was I was talking about friends of mine, and I used the term *coloured people *.... immediately there was a backlash as I was not using the term * people of colour *, another member took offense because she did not like the term ( the same member and myself locked horns a few times over how I was not posting in a manner that she deemed acceptable )

I see the same with tenni, a term was used that they found, unacceptable... and things turned to shit from there....

that is the key .... in a site with many variables of communication, there is bound to be conflicts over terms used.... but the trouble is, when we ask others not to post using terms that we have a personal issue with....
we are saying to people to change their style of non offensive terms, to terms that we are not taking offense to

while I respect what tenni was saying, I also understand what was being asked.... could the members not use another term to describe something as somebody was offended by it
that seems reasonable.... until you look at the list of things that we talk about that can be deemed offensive to people.....

and it brings us back to one thing.... we can find things offensive, but telling others how they can and can not refer to things, is offensive as well

if we were not to talk about things or use terms that people found offensive.... the forum would be about as active as a eunuchs dick.. and thats the last thing we want...

Totally agree

[Canticle]

Then dont ya'll think its up to us, the remaining members in good standing, to do something about it? Couldnt we collectively contact Drew and voice our concerns, or Offer to help him out? Instead of complaining we should do something to help improve our conditions, and make things better once again. :}

Maybe if a couple of us offered to Be mods, then we could keep a quiet eye on the goings on and try to keep the peace. I know in a couple of writing groups that I Mod for, warnings are given to someone who is causing a major prob and warned to tone down their attitudes a tad. If it continues and they continue being a butthead, they are put on moderated status, meaning that their posts are read and must be approved before being posted, or they are removed from the group, period. Just something to think on, Loves. :}
In the words of my generation "You cant solve a problem by not acting on it" ;)
Cat

''Then dont ya'll think its up to us, the remaining members in good standing, to do something about it? Couldnt we collectively contact Drew and voice our concerns, or Offer to help him out? Instead of complaining we should do something to help improve our conditions, and make things better once again. :}''

But who are the remaining members? All those who have joined bisexual.com and are listed in the members list, or only those people who regularly, or intermittently post on the forum, or talk in the chat room? Who is it that should group together? Which concerns would be put forward...all of them...would there be a vote of all members...or just the regulars, remembering that a dormant member, can suddenly become a very active one? Who would be the 'we,' who should help to improve conditions and make the place a better one......and what is ''better''??

''Maybe if a couple of us offered to Be mods, then we could keep a quiet eye on the goings on and try to keep the peace. I know in a couple of writing groups that I Mod for, warnings are given to someone who is causing a major prob and warned to tone down their attitudes a tad. If it continues and they continue being a butthead, they are put on moderated status, meaning that their posts are read and must be approved before being posted, or they are removed from the group, period. Just something to think on, Loves. :}
In the words of my generation "You cant solve a problem by not acting on it" ;)''

If a person offered to become a Moderator, who decides that this person is the right one for the job? The owner of the site, because he knows the volunteer personally, or merely from their posts, or all of the members, in a free vote?

Who decides that a person's 'tone' should be toned down 'a tad;' who decides when someone is being a 'butthead,' or even a beavis; who decides that freedom of expression, should be taken away from someone and their posts ''approved,'' before being posted and who decides that what people say is right or wrong, is in good taste or bad, offensive or inoffensive, insulting or not, etc etc etc???

I believe that to have Moderators, would be a step towards anarchy. It is all well and good, to say that Moderators have to and would, to be fair and impartial. I don't think any human being, in such a position, is capable of being impartial. We all have our likes and dislikes, we all will like some people and not others, whether or not that like or dislike is rational. We are human beings.

I've had comments on some of my posts. I have asked questions of the people commenting and those questions are not answered. This tells me that their comments were unfounded. The same kind of thing would happen, if people became Moderators.

Nothing would be gained, but freedom of expression would die a painful death and that would be a sad day.

[darkeyes]

Mods arent the answer..they arent AN answer either.. the great thing about this site at its best has always been the lack of them, and the good sense of its members.. that it has been lacking of late is sad, but to moderate the debate, or chat is to shackle the freedom we have always had.. the answer can only be within us.. to show good sense, compassion, understanding and accept we have different viewpoints, different ideas of the world and to argue fairly, passionately but as far as possible by not getting personal. We are all flawed and we shall at times all say things which will offend just as at times we will all get offended.. that is in the way of things and can never be entirely avoided.. but with some thought for others, who they are, what they believe and what we know of their lives we can take great strides in keeping such offence to a minimum..

Canticle is right to some degree in that it is difficult when we flame an idea not to some extent to be flaming the person who expounds that idea.. it is their belief after all, and what we believe reflects on us as people. Yet we can avoid becoming personal by accepting that we do have the right to freedom of expression, and the right to expound our ideas and beliefs.. and that no one has a monopoly on being right... to fail to do so, and to get personal, and try and crush opposite viewpoints by insult and intimidation is an affront to all free thinking people... and an insult also to the idea of freedom of speech and expression.. freedom of speech and expression means for everyone not just ourselves.. that is not up for negotiation..

The answer lies in us..not in Drew, certainly not in mods and the controlling (by censorship) of debate by a few privileged people given a bit of power..they have likes and dislikes just like anyone else and their prejudices come into play as they interpret what should and should not be said either in chat or in threads.

It is our job to put our brain in gear and think of other people before we open our cyber gobs.. :)

[mrplayfuluk]

Canticle since you are commented on my posting I will answer your response

Firstly I am not advocating a moderator never have, but there have to be codes to prevent chaos, which Drew clearly states and to use his site its perfectly reasonable to expect everyone to adhere to his requests.

As for 'trolls' they really exist, so get over it. As Azrael declared himself a troll (off site) then it’s a fact. His Troll site was real and if you insist I will try to find it for you but its really irrelevant now, he had to be removed and has been dispatched. I remember a time when you were accused of being a troll and as I recall I defended you. So I detect by your comments, you are still feeling cynical since some who criticised you are among the so called clique on this thread. You and your views have always been welcome even if I don't always agree.

When I say that we should all 'get on' I mean debate like adults rather than attack like sarcastic insecure teenagers. If we can have a grown up debate then its not personal. I relish a good debate, do you? ;-)

postscript: I posted this then noticed that Fran had too. I endorse her comments, not because we have both been here for a long time but because we all want this to be a place to enjoy coming to and because if we were all the same it would be very boring....

[Annika L]

Selecting formal mods seems to me to just formalize the clique structure of which we stand accused. Hey! Let's give a select group of individuals the power to censor posts and/or individuals they don't like (*cough* of course I meant to say "...censor posts and/or individuals that in their view have violated some fairly murky rules).

As things stand, there are no moderators.
As things stand, we are *all* moderators.

Any person who is offended by any thing or person here can report it to Drew...there's a "Report" button on each post, and Drew posts his e-mail address on the site. I have used these means to report underage members and offensive posts that I felt broke the spirit of the site's rules. I believe that without exception, each item I've reported has been dealt with in a way that I found satisfactory...not always immediately, but soon enough.

OMG, does Annika have a direct line to Drew's will? Is she part of the ruling clique? No, silly. She just reports what she thinks is garbage, Drew decides if it is garbage, and if he agrees, he deals with it. My success rate is only because I'm pretty selective with what I report...quite likely, most things I report are reported by several other people as well.

My point is that we all have this power...basically it's the power to help Drew run this site the way he wants it run. If we are conscientious about reporting stuff that is truly out of line, we keep the ship somewhat clean.

BUT...Did I report Tenni's post? No, because it was a silly one-time stupid snipe, and didn't rise to the level of "flaming Rissa"...it was bad behavior, and sheesh, I think he's suffered enough slings and arrows over it.

In general, do I report posts that are simply crass, rather than designed to hurt members? No.

Would moderators censor posts or ban members that are simply crass, rather than trying to hurt members? If even one is poorly selected (and god knows that would *never* happen, right?), then who knows? In the best case where they are selected perfectly, no. So I see no value to having mods, aside from the sense in which we're already mods.

Yes...the best defense against crass posts is....da da dum! Don't make crass posts.

The second best defense is that when you see someone has made a crass post, call them on it. Don't flame them on it for pity's sake, but point out the crassness. Yeah, they may get pissy. And if several people point out the crassness, they'll be accused of being a clique. Oh well. I haven't seen too many crass posts from tenni recently, so the system seems to work.

(Ooooh! And see? All that, and I never even used the t-word! :tong:)

[Canticle]

''Canticle since you are commented on my posting I will answer your response''

Thank you.

''Firstly I am not advocating a moderator never have, but there have to be codes to prevent chaos, which Drew clearly states and to use his site its perfectly reasonable to expect everyone to adhere to his requests.''

I did realise that you, personally, were not stating that there should be Moderators.

''As for 'trolls' they really exist, so get over it. As Azrael declared himself a troll (off site) then it’s a fact. His Troll site was real and if you insist I will try to find it for you but its really irrelevant now, he had to be removed and has been dispatched. I remember a time when you were accused of being a troll and as I recall I defended you. So I detect by your comments, you are still feeling cynical since some who criticised you are among the so called clique on this thread. You and your views have always been welcome even if I don't always agree.''

I would call such people, troublemakers, not Trolls. I used to read Azrael's posts and was always quite convinced, that he knew exactly what he was doing. People who lie, show very similar behaviour and I have a great deal of experience, with people who lie.

Indeed, I and others have been called Trolls, perhaps because the ''callers,'' thought that our faces did not fit. Who knows. I don't remember any specific comments by you, but I thank you for that. I could never be what others call Trolls....I'm too honest and up front..I tend not to lie and I do say what I think. I try to write carefully and not...''flame''....anyone....but if I do, then maybe it is because something posted by me, has made them think, that their view is wrong, or the subject should be looked at, with a different perspective, etc etc etc.

Yes...I guess I am cynical....though never a cynic. I believe that culture has a great deal to do with misunderstanding people...although how anyone could ever think, that I was yet another identity, used by someone else, on the site, for the life of me. I will never understand.

''When I say that we should all 'get on' I mean debate like adults rather than attack like sarcastic insecure teenagers. If we can have a grown up debate then its not personal. I relish a good debate, do you? ;-)''

Smiles....now, what do you think, Mr Playful?

''postscript: I posted this then noticed that Fran had too. I endorse her comments, not because we have both been here for a long time but because we all want this to be a place to enjoy coming to and because if we were all the same it would be very boring....''

Seconded.....up to a point. Well...heck....I have a reputation to keep up.....my Yorkshire blood won't allow me to totally agree....LOL! And yes....that was humour!...though Mr Playful, would have understood. :bigrin:

[mrplayfuluk]

yep.

So we essentially agree :)

let the debates begin... or erm continue

[Canticle]

Mr Playful......Maybe :bigrin:

Annika.....What's the 't' word.....?

[Annika L]

Mr Playful......Maybe :bigrin:

Annika.....What's the 't' word.....?

That *you* of all people should ask that question, Canticle, is the height of irony. :tong:

But as you hate that word, I'll not answer you...just meditate on it and it will come to you. *smile*

[Canticle]

That *you* of all people should ask that question, Canticle, is the height of irony. :tong:

But as you hate that word, I'll not answer you...just meditate on it and it will come to you. *smile*

Oh!!!......Annika!!!!.....lololololol!!!! :tongue::tongue::tongue:

[Annika L]

Oh!!!......Annika!!!!.....lololololol!!!! :tongue::tongue::tongue:

I believe I just heard a penny drop! :cutelaugh

[Canticle]

I believe I just heard a penny drop! :cutelaugh

My excuse........I don't do abbreviations....lol :bigrin: