An Observation

[AdamKadmon43]

Recently I have noticed that people seem to be getting larger and larger.

Since it appears to be happening to so many people, I had assumed that perhaps is some sort of evolutionary process at work. Or maybe we are breathing too much air, thus causing our body cells to dramatically expand... sort of like blowing up a balloon.

But then I began to notice that large people eat more food than small people, and I concluded that being large just might possibly come from eating too much food. One could certainly present the argument that I have managed to reverse the "cause and effect" sequence. It is possible that people do not get larger from eating too much food, but rather, large people simply need to eat more food than small people. But I am inclined to suspect that it is more the former than the latter.

Although there is nothing inherently wrong with being large, there seems to be a few distinct disadvantages. It is more expensive since it requires additional material from which to make clothing, and you must purchase sturdier, thus more costly, furniture upon which to sit. Also, you take up more space. I find it very ironic that the larger people get, the smaller airplane seats seem to get.

So, the solution to this might be to eat less food. Unless, of course, you WANT to be large ..... which is perfectly OK with me.

[Long Duck Dong]

wait are we taking about egos or bodies...... I know some people have large bodies, but there are people with egos so large, the planets orbit them now and not earth.....

as for larger people, there are a number of reasons why a person can be larger than average....and personally, I do not judge as the number of variables as to height and weight is a state of mind and a body mass index that doesn't take into consideration many factors

as for my personal feelings about people, its their bodies and their rights.... and while we are quick to bitch about the added cost.... well, larger people pay taxes and health insurance etc too.....

but I can not help but notice something, the thinner you are, the more likely you are to be asked to appear in a slag rag ( penthouse and mayfair for example )..... and the larger you are, the more likely you are gonna be judged for being overweight.... but based around the statements of people in this site in a recent thread, larger people are loved lots.... even tho there are lots to love.....

there was a program on tv in nz recently about people that lost a lot of weight to fit the * societies acceptable images *... they are now in counselling and therapy, divorce court and weight loss hell...... as losing the pounds, was not the only thing they lost.......

and on a side note, if you are healthy and fit and exercise, you are more likely to injury yourself and cost more in upkeep.... than a larger person that doesn't exercise...... and stress related exercises can trigger a heart attack in the healthiest of people due to the stress......

so food is not the only reason that larger people are large..... its can be cheaper, easier on the knees and joints, and well.... based around the posts by people.... better for ya love life too

[dafydd]

I love large people.
:tongue:

[darkeyes]

While the principal reason for being large and by large I mean overweight, is overeating and eating the wrong kinds of food. there are other reasons why people pile on the pounds, which are nothing to do with overeating.

Exercise may be limited in its use of helping people lose weight, it is extremely important in helping those of us who are not overweight to avoid that catastrophe.. this is especially important when we are young and the fact that more children in western societies are obese and overweight now than ever before is storing up real trouble for them in later life.. eating a balanced diet and eating sensibly is one of the greatest assets in lliving a healthy lifestyle.. allied to a good exercise regime throughout our lives(not necessarily one which is a killer) is for most people a good thing in prolonging life and staying healthy and avoiding the pitfall of being overweight or worse.. obese..

There are other reasons why people are obese or simply overweight for body size.. there are medical issues which create the condition in many, and hormonal changes often help people pile on the pounds. This is often most true of women who have undergone a pregnancy.. but what is overwieght and obese is arguable.. it is subjective in many ways.. I have a freind who has been told by her GP, and by the standard medical guidelines that she is overweight.. she eats a sensible diet and exercises regularly and yet to look at her she is like a stick insect. Heavy bones? Muscle? Possibly both..yet to look at her she can by no stretch of the imagination be considered fat.. many others are similarly considered overweight..

I like, and am attracted both personally and sexually to many people who are overweight.. I always have been. There are limitations in what I find sexually attractive but never personally attractive.. we put too much store on what is right, and expect people often to be so slight as to hardly exist.. I am small and slight, some would say skinny.. yet I have about the same amount of food intake as my mother who is not obese but can be and is described as overweight.. just as there are those who can eat what is considered a normal and balanced diet and put on weight there are those like myself who are considered underweight.. probably by between a half a stone and a stone.. some dont even have to exercise much and retain their slender figure..

We are all different.. why we are large or small or obese is not all to do with not eating enough or being a greedy guts..and those who slag people off for their size should always realise.. there but for the grace of God go I (not that there is a God but I love the saying)..

Right..now if you will excuse me..Fran, Kate an family r off 2 the pub for a luffly good Friday nosh.. all this food talk is makin me starved...

[bemyonlyone]

I am overweight, as is the girl I am in love with. I'm glad she can't read this because I will simply say: I am worried about both of us, and I think we both need to lose weight. She is suffering from various health problems. If health weren't a factor, I wouldn't change a thing about her, I think she's absolutely perfect and gorgeous...but, she, and I, both need to lose weight.

And yes, many people are becoming obese. I can't change anyone except myself, and I want to.

[tenni]

A study was released a couple of days ago. It stated that two thirds of Canadians had tried to diet and failed. That is a large number. I recall about ten years ago visiting Las Vagas. I was with a friend who was a fitness trainer. He noticed it first as to how many people were obese. We really had not seen such huge people before. We then noticed the size of the amount of food served. It seemed so very much larger than what you would get in a Canadian restaurant. We agreed that the number of huge obese people was far greater in Vegas. Unfortunately, what happened in Vegas has not seemed to stay in Vegas (to paraphrase an expression). I've begun to notice more obese people in Canada but still not as many as we saw ten year's ago in Vegas. I am beginning to wonder if the typical food serving in restaurants has not increased as I am more and more not able to eat it all. This seems true of pub grub rather than fine dining.

I have two people in my family that would qualify as obese. One has ended up that way due to her body metabolism going way off. I remember how upset she would get in her early 20's when she would gain more weight than what she actually ate. She started dieting in her early teens. I hear now that some kids start to diet under the age of ten. That is scary as I would suspect that they will screw up their metabolism with yoyo dieting. After her twins were born, her weight went skyward. She eventually tried one of those stomach operations. She did lose weight but is still big. She is still obese after about four years. Just before her operation she admitted that she had not been able to bath in a bathtub due to her size. It was a bit embarassing as I had continued to give her bath salts for Christmas and she couldn't even use them. She had orginally asked for them as a gift and was too embarassed to admit her condition. Something happened after the operation and it isn't quite working. I suspect that she pushed the food intake and one of the posts gave way. I don't really know why but that is what one of her doctors said(a post seems to have given way and is permitting food to enter the other side of her stomach). Hereditary factors have played a role. One of her kids was born big and is huge. Even his calves are huge and he is not all fat but always had belly fat. He is 17, nearly three hundred pounds and heading to becoming a diabetic. Many obese people seem to end up with sleep apnia and are candidates for heart attacks according to this family member. They have to wear a type of oxygen mask to sleep with.

The other family member seems to have fallen into the gain weight so that men will not want to have sex with you phobia. She admitted that she gained weight to keep her sex crazy husband from attacking her all the time. Yep, there seems to be some very disfunctional things going on between them. I have heard of women gaining weight to make themselves not attractive due to having been raped etc.

It is sad what is happening to the North American population with this obesity issue.

[12voltman59]

I am packing too many pounds for sure----been fighting that battle for ages--sometimes I win a few and most of the time the weight wins.

Its not like I really go crazy eating and over all--I eat pretty good---I don't go and buy bags of potato chips to wolf down while watching late night TV---I hardly ever buy them----maybe I get one of those small bags of Sunchips when I get a sandwich at Subway or there is something special like watching the SuperBowl or having other sorts of gatherings. I do tend to like to munch on stuff when I take a long haul roadtrip, though.

I tend to watch what I eat on a regular basis----but admit that when I go out to eat---I sometimes over indulge--but then its hard not to do with the GIGAGANTIC portion sizes they give ya at most eateries it seems---and I was trained early on---"eat all thats on your plate!!!"

I do have a love of food----good food from gourmet styles to good old "down home" style if you are a white southerner or "soul food" if you are black---since I spent my early days in both the midwest and south--with familial connections both north and south of the Mason-Dixon---I do have that tradition of eating in that way---simple foods cooked well---richly done, but not necessarily the most healthy way to prepare it.

And there is that thing of "the food is cooked with love" with all the memories of eating foods both my grannies made and my mum too---and all those family meals with everybody around--all the aunts and uncles, cousins and all----but those days are gone since many who sat at those tables "have passed" ages ago and now--everyone has scattered to the four winds--(actually there are more like seven or eight winds) and no one gets together anymore.

I have also had the good fortune to have traveled a bit in my life and have eaten at some pretty good restaurants in my time---a fair number are marque restaurants in places like New York City and New Orleans, so those are good memories too.

I do get myself some ice cream here and there, buy a chocolate bar when at one of those combo gas station/mini-markets and stuff like that.

Basically---I do try to push the plate away from the table--and I have upped my physical activity lately----and thank god now that it is nice weather---it is nice to get out and move it!!!

Over the years---all of that along with doing work that often entails sitting at the computer for hours on end----the weight has gone on in drips and drabs--but it adds up, then of course--ya get older and it don't come off nearly as easily as it once did no matter how much ya cut back on the calories and up the cardio workouts it seems!!!!

That's my porkpie story!!!

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

As a person who has been big all of my life, I can tell you that there are many factors here. Some are correct, some are not.
Not Everybody who is over weight or obese wants to be that way, it simply happens. Some large people do not graze at salad bars and buffets, do not go around scarfing everything in sight, and arent lazy slugs. Some of us just possess an odd matabolism and a pre-disposed gene for being big. (I know this isnt true in all steriotypical cases) It can be inheriant, or it can simply be an eating disorder.

Some of us just maintain a certain weight level and always have. Those who know me, know that I am a very active person for my size, even with breaking my back and having the disabilities that arose from that. Not all big people can Be this active and excersize to rid themselves of their fat. And its not always a matter of food intake, either. Alot of it can be lifestyle, alot can be the types of foods eaten. And yes, a person Can be fat and still be fit and healthy. Just as some slim people cannot gain weight to save their lives, some big people cant lose weight until they have corrective surgery to help this process, then its dangerous and life changing, and not always in a positive way.

Whatever shape your shape is in, take care of yourself and love yourself for Who you are, not for your size or how others wish to persieve you. Just be you. ;)
Hugz Ya'll
Yer fat Cat

[Canticle]

It is to be noted how most of the comments made in this new thread have been very sensible and seen from both perspectives. I have been what I would call obese and this was probably caused by many of the reasons mentioned. Never by eating too much food. Perhaps the wrong food, maybe I also had a slow metabolism, maybe things that happen in ones life, can cause one to pile on the pounds. There are so many reasons.

I've never been skinny.....never. I was the only one, of three siblings, to inherit my paternal grandmother's hips and legs. My brother was slim and my sister eventually became slightly underweight, but still healthy. Me, I had the hips and legs and a fairly heavy skeletal structure. So whilst I was never fat, I was a larger, in weight terms, teenager. I did not over eat and would certainly never have been over fed, so what caused it. I guess, like Cat says....it was inherited.

When I was 22, through no dieting...no special food....I suddenly lost 28lbs in weight and for the first time, I was slim...very slim. I still had the hips and the reasonably chunky legs, but the weight loss was fairly evenly distributed. What a great feeling!

It was only after the birth of my second son, that I did not return to the
126lbs I had been, when I married. This didn't bother me too much, but maybe it should have done. After the birth of my third child, I gradually began to put on weight. This did not help my bad back and did nothing for my health in general. I remember, in 2002, deciding to lose weight, not by dieting, but by eating sensibly and three meals per day. It worked and I had lost over 28lbs. Then I had things happen, which caused me to lose focus and I regained the weight and more. I didn't get that focus returning for another four years.

In 2006 I had put enough weight on, to make me weigh 256lbs. My back was very bad, I looked ill and I was most certainly, not happy, as I was. Then something entered my life, which gave me back the strength to focus on losing weight. Not a diet. I do not believe in dieting, but once again, the three meals a day. The weight came off and I would have been happy to stop 36lbs ago, but I think I changed my body metabolism. My body decided to do what it wanted and I am still losing weight. I currently weigh 140lbs. I DO NOT want to weigh any less.

You see losing weight is all fine and dandy...but as we get older, our bodies change. What I didn't like looking at, when I was obese, I find even more upsetting to see, now. I see the same basically slimmer me of 30 years ago, but a body is not a pretty site when the elasticity of the skin is gone. One has to take a deep breath and realise, that staying at 256lbs, maybe I wouldn't be able to walk today, maybe I wouldn't be around.

At 140lbs, my health has got to be given a better chance and guess what, I'm not thinking of flashing my body to anyone.....except the odd doctor or nurse. I dress well and I look good....and I don't look my age, or dress in a
55ish manner. It's a good feeling to have the clothes getting smaller and smaller...it really is.

So weight gain. Yes it can be through eating too much, but not always. Yes it can be through eating the wrong things and not eating healthily, but not necessarily. Metabolism, health problems (think thyroid, for one), inherited conditions....no end of reasons.

I have a friend at my church who is a big girl. Sure, she would like to be slim, but she has tried to lose weight. It doesn't work. She has a young son, who needs a great deal of care, she has a job as a carer in a residential home and she goes to the gym. She eats a fairly normal diet....but she is a big girl. She is healthy, happy and confident. Give her three wishes and I think being slim, would come way down the list....there would be more important things to her.

On the flip side of the coin, I am so pleased that my three children have turned out to be slim and also healthy. My daughter is very slim and yet unlike so many of her friends, not stick thin, which I think is worrying. My younger son is exceptionally slim, but not thin. 6 feet tall and 150lbs doesn't mean a person in thin. His brother used to be very slim, also..but since moving to Italy and being fed traditional fare, I can see from photos, that he has a paunch....not good at 29.

Another thing, which a lot of people do not understand, is that too much alcohol can help a person put on weight. It can also cause the opposite reaction from the body...weight loss....dulling the tastebuds....decreasing the urge to eat a healthy diet.

LDD (the mention of large egos, I like that), Fran, Tenni, Volty, Cat.....you all make good points in your posts. There are many reasons for weight gain and many ways of losing weight, or making sure one leads a healthy lifestyle. Tenni....people who failed when dieting, failed because ''dieting'' is not the answer, it's what one eats and when and what kind of metabolism an individual has. It's diet, ot dieting, that is important. Only the person trying to lose weight, or stay fit, can be in control and you have to want and do those two things, for yourself.....no one else.

So I would say it can be unhealthy to be bigger, but not necessarily. Better to be a bigger person, who is a happy, healthy, active, a moderate drinker and a person with a normal diet (or a slim person, leading the same kind of lifestyle), than a stick thin or very slim person, who has a poor or insufficient diet, does little in the way of leading a healthy, active lifestyle and who may drink or perhaps smoke, far too much. therefore, abusing their body.

[boca.openminded]

stating the obvious: you gain weight by what you eat.

yes, there are big frame vs small frame. A big framed guy who stands 6'5" will never be 150 pounds. His healthy weight is probably closer to 250..

It starts with our parents and ends with us... I saw a 10 yr old kid who weighs probably close to 150 then I looked at his mother who was also heavy. Of course she is going to feed her son what she eats so obesity will be trickled down.

I hear every excuse in the book when it comes to bad eating habits or even smoking. They know its not healthy and tried everything but nothing worked. THen all of a sudden they are in the ICU and the doctor tells them they need to change or they will die. WOW, what an eye opener... All of a sudden the person changes..

Look at the tv show "biggest loser". These people are obese but they did it. Yes, it takes alot of hard work and most of us do not want to put in the time & effort but dont tell me its impossible. Metabolism plays a large roll but it still can be done..

1st step is train your mind & body. When you go out to dinner immediately cut your meal in half and put the other half in a doggie bag for another day. Many people feel they need to eat the whole thing. If they do this 1 step I guarantee they will lose alot of weight and be happy. Your stomach can grow or shrink depending on what you put in it. The less you put in it then your stomach will get used to the portion and shrink.

When eating home put your dinner on a small plate instead of the regular dinner plate. THis will give the illusion that you are eating alot but not really and you will see that this smaller portion will make you full..

With the computer / video games / etc... more people are staying inside then going out. Thats also a major problem. I hear some schools are even thinking about getting rid of PE (gym) class.

Im sorry, its so simple to lose weight but you have to want to. If you dont want to then fine but at what point do you stop? When you purchase 2 seats on a plane for 1 person?

We are doing alot to go green now its time to go healthy!

[TwylaTwobits]

I was a very skinny child, I'll even post a pic of me in 3rd grade at the end of this post. I had my tonsils out and adenoids cauterized at the age of 10 due to severe bouts of tonsillitis and recurrent nosebleeds. I didn't eat any less then than I do now excepting the fact that as an adult I no longer eat child size portions. I eat healthy, but I have gained weight since I had my tonsils out. In fact studies show there is an increase of 61% of body weight after tonsillectomies and up to 136% increase if both tonsils and adenoids are taken out. Why this is? Medical opinions are conflicted. I was young when I had my tonsils out but I was healthy. Constantly outside running around and being a country kid. That caused the next problem.

That routine chest xray for the tonsil surgery turned up a problem with my lungs. Cancer was mentioned and my panicked parents called my dad's cousin who was a doctor in Louisville. He told my parents to get me to Kosair to Dr. Evelyn Roe, then one of the leading child pulmonologists in the country.

It took about a month to get things going after turning down the specialist here in our town that kept saying cancer possibility and wanting to do an invasive biopsy. During that time my mother wouldn't let me outside, suddenly the kid that followed Daddy everywhere was stuck indoors and not allowed to do much. At the hospital I had tests up and down my arms, you know when you work in food service and they test you for TB? Yeah those kind of bubble tests. They tried everything checking to see if it was an allergy that caused these calcium deposits to show up on my lungs. Finally histoplasmosis was positive. I got told it would bother me when I was older, I'd be short of breath and cold weather would bother me. They recommended my parents move to Arizona. (I immediately said no way they have tarantulas, yes I'm arachnophobic). So we went on about life happy I was okay and just had to get with family doctor immediately for any instances of bronchitis because they didn't want my lungs to scar any more.

Years passed and the weight gradually packed on, was going outside less and less thanks to panicked parents who finally figured out where I contracted the fungal disease. Bird chalk that had dehydrated and was churned up when my sneakers hit it as we played outside. It was the country and damned near impossible to avoid tiny droppings around the place. So I was limited more and more.

As I got into my 30's I suddenly started developing shortness of breath and cold weather really bothered me. If I did any walking in cold weather I would literally stop and cough til I threw up. I remembered what the doctor said and for a child of 10 you think...old that's like 80. Nope this was in my 30's, by the time I was 35 I'd had a bronchoscopy and they put a resorbing stent in my bronchial tubes to force them open as I was breathing in just fine, the right amount of oxygen, but I wasn't expelling all the carbon dioxide. That helped for awhile and life was good. I was not skinny but I wasn't overtly obese either. I had a car wreck on Sept 15, 2007. I was hit in the right rear quarter panel of my Chevy Blazer by a PT Cruiser. Flipped me over a couple times and completely trashed my left arm, it's scars up and down. What no one realized is it also caused a small pneumothorax and as time went on it got harder for me to breathe. I had surgery to remove the glass imbedded deep in my elbow and in my hand. In and out no worries.... I died on the operating table when my lung collapsed. Went into full congestive heart failure and I was gone for 2 minutes before they got me back. I was in the hospital for 2 weeks with a chest tube and for some reason my body would not stop making fluid and the chest tube couldn't be removed. Dr. Hymes came and took a look and said no question about it. You're going back to surgery. While in surgery he removed the bottom right lobe of my lung and sent it off for biopsy at the Mayo Clinic. About a week after the surgery I went home on oxygen and slowly regained my strength. I was breathing better now as the remainder of my lung tissue was forced to work harder and became more productive. I had been the same size since I was in high school and was comfortable with my weight. Lately, I have been experience weight loss and I don't know why. Part of me is going yay, the other part is wondering if something is wrong. Jeans I just bought are now loose, there is a noticeable difference to me when I look in the mirror. I am not exercising nor am I really watching what I eat, my metabolism has just shifted. I doubt I'll ever join the ranks of women who shop in the normal sections but I know that I am feeling healthier than I ever been even back when I was such a stick my parents tried to force me to eat more.

[Canticle]

''stating the obvious: you gain weight by what you eat.''

....and Boca, that statement would be correct, only in part. People inherit health problems....and I don't mean over eating. Some people have very specific health problems, which can cause obesity, or quite the opposite and you will find that many ''larger'' people, eat a perfectly healthy diet.

''yes, there are big frame vs small frame. A big framed guy who stands 6'5" will never be 150 pounds. His healthy weight is probably closer to 250..''

Well....you are correct there...up to a point. If a person, who leans towards the slender side, comes from a family where relatives are built very much in the same manner, being tall and slim, will be a natural thing. The same can be so, for a family, where members tend to be larger.

''It starts with our parents and ends with us... I saw a 10 yr old kid who weighs probably close to 150 then I looked at his mother who was also heavy. Of course she is going to feed her son what she eats so obesity will be trickled down.''

Not so Boca! Just because a child will be obese, it does not mean that the parents will be found to be the same. Very often, an overweight child, grows up to be a person of average build. I know of many such cases. Your last sentence there is incorrect.

I know for a fact, that I was never over fed and my parents were not obese. My husband was an obese child...his parents of average build...but he was a long waited for, only son and he was indulged and allowed to eat exactly what he wanted. There is no ''obvious'' about anythng in life.

''I hear every excuse in the book when it comes to bad eating habits or even smoking. They know its not healthy and tried everything but nothing worked. THen all of a sudden they are in the ICU and the doctor tells them they need to change or they will die. WOW, what an eye opener... All of a sudden the person changes..''

The reasons people have, for being overweight, are not excuses. Smoking dulls the tastebuds and people tend to gain weight when they have stopped smoking. Smoking be responsible for heart disease and lung cancer etc, far more than obesity, I would have thought.

Alcohol also dulls the tastebuds, when taken to excess and can cause the appetite to wain. Alcohol also contains a lot of calories and can help a person put on too much weight. It's not just ending up in ICU, that will will be the only cause, for a person to attend to their diet. There are many factors.

''Look at the tv show "biggest loser". These people are obese but they did it. Yes, it takes alot of hard work and most of us do not want to put in the time & effort but dont tell me its impossible. Metabolism plays a large roll but it still can be done..''

Is that an American show? How awful to label people ''biggest loser,'' even if the show is about losing weight. It is not so much hard work and time that is needed, to lose weight, but being focused.

I will tell you, that this losing of weight cannot always be achieved, because I know many larger people, who are fit and healthy, are on the go all the time, have a healthy diet, do not over eat and yet they are big. These people don't have slow metabolisms, either. They are just naturally, bigger in build. Many have tried to lose weight. It doesn't happen

''1st step is train your mind & body. When you go out to dinner immediately cut your meal in half and put the other half in a doggie bag for another day. Many people feel they need to eat the whole thing. If they do this 1 step I guarantee they will lose alot of weight and be happy. Your stomach can grow or shrink depending on what you put in it. The less you put in it then your stomach will get used to the portion and shrink.''

I have watched scenes fimed in American restaurants and it amazed me, just how big the portions were. You are right, people do not have to eat everything that is on their plate, neither do they requires huge amounts of meat. As for putting food in a ''doggie bag''.....that is the last thing a dog needs.

You are actually quite wrong about the eating less, guaranteeing weight loss. Many people eat very little at all, but eat the wrong things and gain weight. Many people do not eat breakfast, or enough fruit or vegetables.

If one is focussed enough to eat sensibly, then one will find that much more is being eaten, the right kind of food and yet weight still being lost. For me breakfast could be porridge and fruit, toast and whatever is on it, depending what I feel like eating. lunch could be a salad or sanwiches with more fruit and maybe a yoghurt, and dinner....well, it depends what you want....for me it was mostly salads and lots of salad, with cheese and sometimes some meat.

I ate more when I was eating sensibly and I have lost over 100lbs in weight. Never, did I diet and never did I say that I would not eat cream cakes or chocolate...etc. Say that and the focus will soon disappear.

''When eating home put your dinner on a small plate instead of the regular dinner plate. THis will give the illusion that you are eating alot but not really and you will see that this smaller portion will make you full..''

Not the way for most folk, to do it, Boca. Illusions soon vanish into thin air.

''With the computer / video games / etc... more people are staying inside then going out. Thats also a major problem. I hear some schools are even thinking about getting rid of PE (gym) class.''

I agree with you here. Too many people spend too much time, seeking companionship on line, when there is a world out there. Go to any web cam site and the majority of people on cam, of a certain age, will be obese and not looking healthy. They do not look like the bigger and active people I know.

''Im sorry, its so simple to lose weight but you have to want to. If you dont want to then fine but at what point do you stop? When you purchase 2 seats on a plane for 1 person?''

It's not simple to lose weight, not for many people and for some, nigh on impossible. Yes, one has to want to lose weight and it's amazing how good it feels to be told...''have you lost weight''.....for the person losing the weight, is the last one to notice. Being healthy and active are the most important things...whether one is large, medium or small. Remember, in some cultures, thin is seen as unattractive...eg..the island of Tonga.

''We are doing alot to go green now its time to go healthy!''

And to be healthy, one does not need to be thin.

[Canticle]

Oh, Twyla, you have been through a lot. It truly is amazing, the things we have no idea about, which can cause us health problems. I wish you well, in the true sense of the word.

[boca.openminded]

Yes, there is an exception to every rule but lets be real for a minute. Over 50% of Americans are obese or close to being obese. You can't tell me all of them have health issues that cause them to be obese. Of course not..

Proof is on every corner there are fast food places. When you walk into any of these places you see mostly obese people AND the obese children you see have obese parents. Of course as a child you are fed whatever your parent puts on the table. An obese parent is most likely not eating healthy and she is feeding he child what she eats. Does that mean every obese parent has an obese child? Of course not but it is the majority. Hopefully, when the child does get older he or she does change and eat healthier.

As far as my ICU comment I am saying that people use every excuse in the book not to do the healthy thing until it is their last resort. It has nothing to do with dulling of the tastebuds. I never referred to quit smoking equals gaining weight. You totally missed my point. I know many people that gave every excuse to quit smoking and eventually stopped when they were in the hospital and having open heart surgery. When they came out of the hospital, thats when they stopped. That was my point. why did they stop then and not before? Its because people make every excuse not to do something until they ran out of excuses.

Who gives a shit about Island of Tonga... I live in the US so thats what I am talking about? There are way too many people (and its increasing every day) that are obese by choice. Being obese is a major health risk. Its a medical proven fact. It causes diabetes, high blood pressure, heart diseases, etc... Yes, I hope nobody gets these severe illnesses but once they do then a major life change needs to go into effect or they will DIE... Thats the fact. I didn't make this shit up...

Most obese people are not healthy... Like I said earlier there is an exception to every rule BUT on the whole these people are not healthy.

[dafydd]

1st step is train your mind & body. When you go out to dinner immediately cut your meal in half and put the other half in a doggie bag for another day. Many people feel they need to eat the whole thing. If they do this 1 step I guarantee they will lose alot of weight and be happy. Your stomach can grow or shrink depending on what you put in it. The less you put in it then your stomach will get used to the portion and shrink.


I've never seen anyone take home food from a restaurant in the UK, but they did it all the time in the US when I was there. I think its a cultural thing and has different (negative) connotations over here i.e generally associated with starvation or not knowing where your next meal is coming from.

d

[Hephaestion]

No Dougal this a small cow. However, those cows are far away. Do you see?

Could you explain it one more time please Ted?

[darkeyes]

I've never seen anyone take home food from a restaurant in the UK, but they did it all the time in the US when I was there. I think its a cultural thing and has different (negative) connotations over here i.e generally associated with starvation or not knowing where your next meal is coming from.

d

U nev heard a doggie bags Daffy? Quite common wer me cums from an in NW England..ya pay ya wanna get ya money's worth... won say we do it all the time but if summat is partic yummie..am not leavin it ther for pig slop...:)

[Canticle]

''Yes, there is an exception to every rule but lets be real for a minute. Over 50% of Americans are obese or close to being obese. You can't tell me all of them have health issues that cause them to be obese. Of course not..''

Too true, that there is an exception to every rule and that is why I look at things a very real way...all the time. I seem to see around me...in the UK, far more average sized people, than over weight and we have just as many fast food outlets (I wonder where the majority of those establishments have their roots), as I am sure, can be found in the USA, allowing for the fact that the USA is a much larger country, with a bigger population.

Some people will have health issues, some women will have put weight on after having children (and unless you are female, you won't understand how difficult that can be to shift), some will come from a family of big people. My neighbours are like that. All fit and healthy, though, allowing for age and childbearing and arthritis of the spine etc, all hardworking and active. Some people will be obese because they have an eating disorder and I am sure that there are many reasons for that, both emotional and physical. You can't just label every obese person under the same grouping. You can't say that every obese person...obese in your eyes, maybe.....can or needs to lose weight.

''Proof is on every corner there are fast food places. When you walk into any of these places you see mostly obese people AND the obese children you see have obese parents. Of course as a child you are fed whatever your parent puts on the table. An obese parent is most likely not eating healthy and she is feeding he child what she eats. Does that mean every obese parent has an obese child? Of course not but it is the majority. Hopefully, when the child does get older he or she does change and eat healthier.''

You kow, I have been in many, many MacDonalds (though not in the USA), and I have yet, to see such an establishment, full of obese people and their obese children. I can't believe that it's much different in the States. I don't think it would be an image fast food outlets, would want as an advertisement. Maybe......there is some other reason you feel that this is the way things are.

No, children will not eat whatever a parent tries to feed them and many parents, who are overweight, try their best to make sure that their children eat healthily. I mentioned my husband....His parents were not obese, yet he was almost force fed, in the way he was allowed to eat exactly what he wanted. He was never stopped from eating and the more you allow a child to eat exactly what it wants, the more it will do so.

My husband was 120lbs when he was 12 years old. He looked exactly like Pugsley from the Aaddams family (sp), and that is no exaggeration. It took until his mid teenage years before he controlled his eating, but even now he eats when he does not need to and he is most certainly overweight.

Knowing the weight problems he had had, I made sure that my children were not allowed to over eat. It's rather worrying when you see a grown man eat a whole box of biscuits. Luckily my children inherited the good genes.

I might ask why did I become a big teenager...not obese...big. Same food, same genes as my siblings. We are all different.

''As far as my ICU comment I am saying that people use every excuse in the book not to do the healthy thing until it is their last resort. It has nothing to do with dulling of the tastebuds. I never referred to quit smoking equals gaining weight. You totally missed my point. I know many people that gave every excuse to quit smoking and eventually stopped when they were in the hospital and having open heart surgery. When they came out of the hospital, thats when they stopped. That was my point. why did they stop then and not before? Its because people make every excuse not to do something until they ran out of excuses.''

No, I don't think that I missed your point and I think in this paragraph, in your first sentence, mentioning the ''dulling of tastebuds,'' confuses the discussion. In fact your ehole paragraph is very mixed up and confusing. I think that it is you who missed my point.

''Who gives a shit about Island of Tonga... I live in the US so thats what I am talking about? There are way too many people (and its increasing every day) that are obese by choice. Being obese is a major health risk. Its a medical proven fact. It causes diabetes, high blood pressure, heart diseases, etc... Yes, I hope nobody gets these severe illnesses but once they do then a major life change needs to go into effect or they will DIE... Thats the fact. I didn't make this shit up...''

You should give a bowel movement about the island of Tonga.....it's part of the world on which and in you live. Polynesians were always known for having a very healthy diet and excellent teeth. Perhaps learning from other cultures, which foods are good for one and help prolong our lives and keep us healthy, might be a good thing to do. :rolleyes:

I don't think any obese person, is obese by choice. If they have not looked after their health and have become obese by eating the wrong foods or by leading an unhealthy lifestyle.....then there is usually a cause.....a need....something going on in their life which means they go down the wrong path. I think that there are very few people who would set out to deliberately make their body dangerously obese....just for the hell of it.

You are not wrong, in stating that obesity causes health problems and you list them eloquently.....but you miss out mentioning, that most people, with any intellect, will heed the advice of their doctor, if they are heading toward any big health problem.

''Most obese people are not healthy... Like I said earlier there is an exception to every rule BUT on the whole these people are not healthy.''

Some obese people are unhealthy and those who are, would be sensible to take action and lose weight. It's not all obese people and I wouldn't even refer to healthy and active, larger people, as obese. If a larger person is healthy, active, has no health scares at all, and has a sensible diet, then that is how they were meant to be.

I wasn't meant to be overweight and I was ill. So I lost the weight, but you know something, it doesn't stop you from getting health problems, because even slim people get high blood pressure, diabetes etc etc etc.

[AdamKadmon43]

What started out as a rather tongue-in-cheek comment has resulted in some very interesting and enjoyable posts.

Thank you.

[boca.openminded]

I think it is really funny how someone is arguing with me about obesity in the US when they dont even live in the US..

OK, i was slightly off. The obesity rate is only 27% but the overweight rate is over 64%. Being overweight can and most likely will lead to obesity. The rate is only getting higher & higher. Its not healthy and we need to do something about it. We need to spend more time outdoors walking, biking, etc and less time indoors watching tv or playing video games.

30+ yrs ago when there were less tv channels & no video games (or less of them) everyone was outdoors. This is why the obesity & overweight stats are growing each year. I understand that stress also is a major cause to why people eat and an easy answer is get outside and do something. Exercise is the answer to many health problems (not all , duh) we have today...


Here is a stat straight from the World Obesity Statistics Website...

There are many overweight and obese people all around. Here is some overweight statistics:

• 64 percent of people are overweight in the US

• 48 percent of people in Europe are overweight

• 27 percent of Americans are classified as obese

• Obesity is responsible for 325,000 deaths every year

• Obesity is defined as a body mass index (BMI) of 30 or greater. BMI is calculated from a person's weight and height and provides a reasonable indicator of body fatness and weight categories that may lead to health problems. Obesity is a major risk factor for cardiovascular disease, certain types of cancer, and type 2 diabetes

[Canticle]

''I think it is really funny how someone is arguing with me about obesity in the US when they dont even live in the US..''

Really don't see that it matters which country the people are from....overweight is overweight....obese is obese....black is black...white is white....and all the varying shades inbetween. percentages may differ from country to country, populations be higher or lower.....but bigger is bigger, where 'er one is from.

The USA doesn't have a monopoly on obesity, or over weight people.

''OK, i was slightly off. The obesity rate is only 27% but the overweight rate is over 64%. Being overweight can and most likely will lead to obesity. The rate is only getting higher & higher. Its not healthy and we need to do something about it. We need to spend more time outdoors walking, biking, etc and less time indoors watching tv or playing video games.''

Now, you were slightly off...weren't you....27% is a lot different. Ok, so the overweight rate runs at 64% and sure...being bigger could lead to being obese and a danger to health, but not necessarly.

I would agree that people do not get enough exercise and whatever exercise a person takes, is bound to do them good.....if they are fit enough in other respects. After four years, it is only now that I can even contemplate doing any planned exercise, so delicate is my back.....heavier or lighter, my back muscles continue to threaten to literally give way. I have to be very careful, as do many people.

You can't make people lead a more healthy life style. You can only start educating them, when they are children. Turn off the TV, restrict the amount of time children spend on the computer and playstations, encourage them to eat in a healthy manner....no matter what their parents eat and take more exercise.

Ya ain't gonna get everyone hiking or biking. though. Many people do not like to participate in sport and just like a quiet life. What has always annoyed me, living in a village, was the amount of parents who would ferry their children to the village school, by car, instead of walking.

I never had that facility....I don't drive, but even if I had, no way would I have driven from one end of the village to the other. Even little things like that...walking to and from school, must be good for one and the parent is doing it twice as many times as the child.

Any exercise is good exercise.....it's just getting off ones butt and doing it, that people don't want to do.

''30+ yrs ago when there were less tv channels & no video games (or less of them) everyone was outdoors. This is why the obesity & overweight stats are growing each year. I understand that stress also is a major cause to why people eat and an easy answer is get outside and do something. Exercise is the answer to many health problems (not all , duh) we have today... ''

Oh, gee...I just covered that....Oh, well.


''Here is a stat straight from the World Obesity Statistics Website...

There are many overweight and obese people all around. Here is some overweight statistics:

• 64 percent of people are overweight in the US

• 48 percent of people in Europe are overweight

• 27 percent of Americans are classified as obese

• Obesity is responsible for 325,000 deaths every year

• Obesity is defined as a body mass index (BMI) of 30 or greater. BMI is calculated from a person's weight and height and provides a reasonable indicator of body fatness and weight categories that may lead to health problems. Obesity is a major risk factor for cardiovascular disease, certain types of cancer, and type 2 diabetes''

Yep....know all that. You didn't look it up especially, did you? Not a fan of statistics.....they can be flawed and falsified to suit the researcher's needs. I don't mean you. I mean the big-wigs who produce statistics. I tend to believe all the compilers of official records and statistics are corrupt in some manner.

Gee...am I ever the cynic.

[elian]

I don't think is really rocket science..if you had 40 acres to plow then you could eat five eggs, a half loaf of bread and a half slab of bacon - wash it down with milk and OJ and then go work off all those calories. Since most of the manufacturing jobs in the US are now to our North and South a lot of folks aren't as active as they used to be. No exercise, no burn calories - but we have all of this rich, wonderful food around us and even people to prepare it and bring it to us..and lots of telemarketing ads to tell us that we'd be a lot slimmer if only we would order some amphetamine pills for $29.95 + S&H (first order is free - one sample per household).

Having said that one of my best friends was my grade school girlfriend, her whole family was overweight and I remember them trying just about anything they could with diet to lose weight - the whole family, for the whole summer - and it just seemed as though anything they tried wouldn't work. Lovely family, but when I think back on how hard they tried I have to think that at least part of the problem must be genetic.

--now I feel sad because when I say "we all have this rich wonderful food" - that's not always true.. <sigh>

[tenni]

Canticle
I think that you point out the mysterious role that body metabolism plays for probably all of us. Some of us were born with higher metabolisms and have looked thiner than our siblings. I was always thinner than my bio sister. There would always be the comparison. I could eat like a pig and gain no weight. I'm definitely prone to being attracted to sugary food with chocolate being very high. Now, I seem to have developed an allergy to chocolate. It upsets my stomach. That is a good thing and I'm slowly losing a craving for it. That's good because I really didn't seem to have any self control if it was in the house. I seemed to be addicted...lol I would eat the entire sweet food and still seem to have little self control. It is not all sweet food though that I am addicted to nor is it all day long that I crave it. It is much more time specific and type of sugary food. I was warned by people usually chunkier than me (and women not men for some reason) during my 20's and 30's that just wait until you are 40, you will gain. Well, I did. Meanwhile the women in my family have struggled with weight all of their lives. As I wrote, one relative contrary to what someone has posted did not eat much at all in her teens. Her metabolism really became most unusual. After 40, I started to gain weight.

Eventually, I did not recognize the guy in the mirror and tried changing my food intake for the first time in my life. It didn't take long to drop the weight but it has been a struggle to keep it off due to the sweet desire. After working out and watching my weight for about ten years, I threw in the towel and stopped monitoring. As long as I worked out and did cardio, I could keep my sugar addiction. In that sense, I was and continue to be in control of my weight.

My metabolism has changed. My sisters are chunky. One sister is not a biological sister but a biological relative. Her father was huge and his genetics have been playing havoc for her and now her kids. Genetics seem to play a role. Self control seems to play a role for some but not everyone. Once your metabolism slows down some people literally gain weight far more than their food intake.

My sister with the stomach operation will be at my place for Easter dinner tomorrow. I've watched her and I know that she is taking in more food than originally after the operation. I suspect that it was will power or more to the point arrogance that she was different than others who had the operation. She didn't have anywhere near as many negative side effects originally after the operation as she had been warned about. She thought that she could push things and so she has some responsibility for remaining obese. However, her genetics and her food intake seem truly out of wack. She should not be as big as she is but she is. This has been a life long struggle for her. I can not honestly state that she is obese because she over eats. I wonder sometimes but there is not really any sign that she is over eating. She looks much better but remains beyond just big. I do think that obese people definitely have more health problems than non obese though. Big is one thing but obese is something entirely different.

[Canticle]

''I don't think is really rocket science..if you had 40 acres to plow then you could eat five eggs, a half loaf of bread and a half slab of bacon - wash it down with milk and OJ and then go work off all those calories. Since most of the manufacturing jobs in the US are now to our North and South a lot of folks aren't as active as they used to be. No exercise, no burn calories - but we have all of this rich, wonderful food around us and even people to prepare it and bring it to us..and lots of telemarketing ads to tell us that we'd be a lot slimmer if only we would order some amphetamine pills for $29.95 + S&H (first order is free - one sample per household).''

Too true, it sure ain't rocket science. If we can burn the calories....then we can...just about..eat anything...barring one another, of course....though, even that has been known to be a necessity..at times.

I am reminded of my late father, who was a sheet metal worker, a very skilled man. His job was, obviously, classed blue collar and he started work early and ended the day, about the time most office staff, were leaving for home. For 30 years he had an ulcer and at times, he would literally exist on steamed fish and bread and milk, whilst still needing to drag himself into work, so that he could feed his chidren. Like most other countries, 40 years ago, blue collar workers, didn't get paid if they were sick, unlike the clerical staff, working for the same company.

Inbetween bouts of ulcer problems, my father ate well and had a balanced diet, When I was a child, most of the vegetables were fresh, not frozen and the same with meat. Dad wasn't overweight, didn't indulge in eating too many sweet things and was certainly no drinker (Christmas and special occasions, being his limit).

He worked hard and did burn all the calories he needed to burn. When the ulcer was removed and he could eat things, which had before, caused him problems, he gained weight, but only enough to make him weigh the same as he had aged 18. Before, he had probably been underweight.

Dad also did any heavy work in the small garden we had, the painting and decorating...so he didn't need lots of exercise. He got plenty

Because he was so healthy, after his ulcer was removed, when he contracted lung cancer, it took him 10 months to die. He still ate well, only losing his appetite at the very end...so I guess you could say, he was feeding his illness. I'm just glad he never became just skin and bone. That would have been a terrible ending for such a fine man.

Changing subject, slightly. Can you really order Amphetamines, in the way you are saying, in the USA? Are they really advertised? My God, that is terrible, if it is so. They are dangerous drugs and in the UK, you'd even get a General Practitioner, unwiling to prescibe anything like that, unless absolutely necessary. They are certainly not available (legally), for the general public, to purchase.

''Having said that one of my best friends was my grade school girlfriend, her whole family was overweight and I remember them trying just about anything they could with diet to lose weight - the whole family, for the whole summer - and it just seemed as though anything they tried wouldn't work. Lovely family, but when I think back on how hard they tried I have to think that at least part of the problem must be genetic.''

Well there ya go!

''--now I feel sad because when I say "we all have this rich wonderful food" - that's not always true..''

Some of us can eat certain things.....some can't.

[Canticle]

''Canticle
I think that you point out the mysterious role that body metabolism plays for probably all of us. Some of us were born with higher metabolisms and have looked thiner than our siblings. I was always thinner than my bio sister. There would always be the comparison. I could eat like a pig and gain no weight. I'm definitely prone to being attracted to sugary food with chocolate being very high. Now, I seem to have developed an allergy to chocolate. It upsets my stomach. That is a good thing and I'm slowly losing a craving for it. That's good because I really didn't seem to have any self control if it was in the house. I seemed to be addicted...lol I would eat the entire sweet food and still seem to have little self control. It is not all sweet food though that I am addicted to nor is it all day long that I crave it. It is much more time specific and type of sugary food. I was warned by people usually chunkier than me (and women not men for some reason) during my 20's and 30's that just wait until you are 40, you will gain. Well, I did. Meanwhile the women in my family have struggled with weight all of their lives. As I wrote, one relative contrary to what someone has posted did not eat much at all in her teens. Her metabolism really became most unusual. After 40, I started to gain weight.''

I've finished eating my two Cadbury's chocolate flakes, so I can answer your post. I'm on a chocolate kick at the moment. It won't last, I'll get bored with it. However, it is nice to know, that I no longer put weight on. I just wish my body would listen to me, when I tell it, that enough is enough and I don't want to lose anymore weight.

Well, if there is anyone who is gonna point out the ''mysterious,'' it's me Tenni. That was humour, for those who don't get it.....though I mean what I say....but that's another thread entirely.

Not a lot to add to your comments above. No argument with anything there. I have never had a food addiction of any sort...as in in needing to eat lots of sweet stuff etc...I actually prefer savoury things, but as we know, savoury foods can be just as bad as things like chocolate, or alcohol.

When I was totally focussed on eating three times a day and actually eating more and still losing weight, I did not touch anything which was artificially sweetened with sugar. I soon found that the natural sweetness (sugars) in fruit was enough for me and if I tried anything that had been sweetened, it was like having sugar in tea, when you haven't taken it that way, for years.

I have known larger people, who have had very small appetites....so genetics does play a big part in weight.

''Eventually, I did not recognize the guy in the mirror and tried changing my food intake for the first time in my life. It didn't take long to drop the weight but it has been a struggle to keep it off due to the sweet desire. After working out and watching my weight for about ten years, I threw in the towel and stopped monitoring. As long as I worked out and did cardio, I could keep my sugar addiction. In that sense, I was and continue to be in control of my weight.''

Looks like you understood, instinctively, when to stop weighing yourself. I used to weigh myself about once a week, but as the clothes got bigger and I needed smaller sizes, I took to weighing myself intemittently. Now, I am back to weighing myself weekly, for I am having the pounds drop off me. Three months ago, I was 148lbs.....now, I am 140lbs. I don't want to lose anymore, but I have little control, for my metabolism has changed. Eating more makes no difference......so I am just content to allow my body to do what it wants. My doctor says I am Ok...so what the heck.

''My metabolism has changed. My sisters are chunky. One sister is not a biological sister but a biological relative. Her father was huge and his genetics have been playing havoc for her and now her kids. Genetics seem to play a role. Self control seems to play a role for some but not everyone. Once your metabolism slows down some people literally gain weight far more than their food intake.''

Yep, Yep, Yep and Yep.

''My sister with the stomach operation will be at my place for Easter dinner tomorrow. I've watched her and I know that she is taking in more food than originally after the operation. I suspect that it was will power or more to the point arrogance that she was different than others who had the operation. She didn't have anywhere near as many negative side effects originally after the operation as she had been warned about. She thought that she could push things and so she has some responsibility for remaining obese. However, her genetics and her food intake seem truly out of wack. She should not be as big as she is but she is. This has been a life long struggle for her. I can not honestly state that she is obese because she over eats. I wonder sometimes but there is not really any sign that she is over eating. She looks much better but remains beyond just big. I do think that obese people definitely have more health problems than non obese though. Big is one thing but obese is something entirely different.''

Your last sentence sums it up beautifully.

I do hope your sister will find that control. It's not ''dieting,'' but diet, which one has to learn to control. A good breakfast, will see one through until lunch.....unless the metabolism is running without the brakes applied. A good lunch, will see one through until dinner and so on and so forth.....but we are all different.....we need to find our own, individual level.

[dafydd]

U nev heard a doggie bags Daffy? Quite common wer me cums from an in NW England..ya pay ya wanna get ya money's worth... won say we do it all the time but if summat is partic yummie..am not leavin it ther for pig slop...:)

It exists but I don't think it's commonplace, at least not in my neck of the woods.

d

[dafydd]

Its not healthy and we need to do something about it. We need to spend more time outdoors walking, biking, etc and less time indoors watching tv or playing video games.


I don't care if there are overweight people in society. I am not fat-phobic. I'm more concerned with the damage done by alcohol and cigarettes. From my point of view there are far too many chain-smoking, drunks around. I guess that's because I am a sober ex-smoker....

d:bipride:

[darkeyes]

I don't care if there are overweight people in society. I am not fat-phobic. I'm more concerned with the damage done by alcohol and cigarettes. From my point of view there are far too many chain-smoking, drunks around. I guess that's because I am a sober ex-smoker....

d:bipride:

..am not fat phobic eitha, daffy..am an x smoker... *grins*(save for the odd lil waccy... *looks round furtively*) but cant say me is always sober... *hangs head in shame*.. but can say am sober much moren wos the case a few years go *grins fair chuffed wiv 'ersel* :bigrin:

[Canticle]

..am not fat phobic eitha, daffy..am an x smoker... *grins*(save for the odd lil waccy... *looks round furtively*) but cant say me is always sober... *hangs head in shame*.. but can say am sober much moren wos the case a few years go *grins fair chuffed wiv 'ersel* :bigrin:

The lad is good looking too, Fran....;) and :bigrin: and he lives in Kilburn.....''My word,'' as the dear departed Billy the Pig, would say!

Waves to Dafydd......in a motherly manner.....:bigrin:

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Bad Fran, BAD Fran! (Go ta m'room) lol :bigrin:;)
Cheeky Cat

[dafydd]

The lad is good looking too, Fran....;) and :bigrin: and he lives in Kilburn.....''My word,'' as the dear departed Billy the Pig, would say!

Waves to Dafydd......in a motherly manner.....:bigrin:

<waves back> does that mean you'll starch my underpants?

d

[Canticle]

<waves back> does that mean you'll starch my underpants?

d


Oh, Goodness!!! :eek: Wouldn't that cause unnecessary chafing????? :rolleyes::bigrin:;)

[dafydd]

Oh, Goodness!!! :eek: Wouldn't that cause unnecessary chafing????? :rolleyes::bigrin:;)

hah guess you're right..we'll need lubrication

d

[Canticle]

hah guess you're right..we'll need lubrication

d

LOL....You might...but moi!.....I couldn't possibly comment...............

[FalconAngel]

If you are talking about weight gain and loss, much of that is exorcise levels and too much junk food.

If you are talking about people getting taller, that is due to diet, medical advancements and DNA.

In 1630, Henry VII was considered to be a giant (literally) among men at an astounding (for the day) of 6'1" tall.

The avrage knight in the middle ages/Renaissance was considered to be a tall man at just 5' in height.

As things such as refrigeration, meat preservation and medicine improved, man began the long ascent towards growing to our species potential. It is no longer uncommon for people to be in excess of 6' 6". Much of that is due to those factors.

Society is getting taller. In the end, how tall our species will average in the future will depend on how much better our food handling and medical advancements get with the only limit being what our DNA says we should be.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

I used to be tall...I was 5'8. I am now 5'7. I've shrunkted! :(
Cat

[Canticle]

''In 1630, Henry VII was considered to be a giant (literally) among men at an astounding (for the day) of 6'1" tall.

The avrage knight in the middle ages/Renaissance was considered to be a tall man at just 5' in height.''

Ah, Mr Falcon, we have to go back over another one hundred years to encounter Henry VII and he was most certainly not a very tall man. Also. he had no claim to the throne. Henry Tudor, though descended from Edward III, was not a direct claimant to the throne. What took place with the Lancastrians winning the day, over the Yorkists, at the very telling battle of Bosworth Field, was nothing short of a coup.

Henry VII reigned from 1485 until the early 1500s and to make sure his claim to the throne seemed justified, legal and worthy, he took for himself, as queen, Elizabeth, daughter of the late King Edward IV.

Now it is very likely that Edward IV was illegitemate, as his father Richard, Duke of York, was nowhere in the vicinity, when Edward was conceived. The pregnancy would have needed to be a very long one, for the then Duchess of York.

No fuss was made of the future Edward IV's birth, which was unusual, as he was a Royal Prince and a first born son. However, the following year, his brother George, Duke of Clarence, was born and great celebrations were held. Later, when Edward became king, George rebelled against his brother (probably pissed off that a bastard was on the throne), and was executed, He chose his own death......forget about anything Shakespeare may have written.

So after the death of Edward IV, Richard III no doubt did have the young Edward V and his brother murdered, considering them to be of the same bastard line and he being the rightful heir to the throne. Unlike his brother, George, Richard played a waiting game. Reports from visiting ambassadors, to the court of Edward IV, describe Richard as highly intelligent.

So Richard III reigned for three years, until that fateful day upon Bosworth Field, where he lost his life, in battle and Yep, folks, kings actually died in battle, leading their army. Richard III had been a page, knave and then knight, training at the ''court,'' of the Earl of Warwick (Warwick the king maker), He was not deformed in any manner, though slight of build, compared to his brothers. He would have had an overdeveloped shoulder muscle, from training as a knight and using those huge swords, which knights were famous for.

Richard III died, a hero, a true king.

So Henry Tudor ( that nasty, mean faced, little man), had seen the end of the Plantagenet dynasty, with the death of Richard III, yet had to marry the daughter of a dead king, to make sure that he held on to the throne.

Henry VII had Plantagenet blood in his veins and the Plantagenets were known for being tall and no doubt, his new queen, Elizabeth, also had Plantagenet/Norman blood (but from her father...hmmm). Their eldest son to be born and also heir to the throne, Arthur, died as a teenager, leaving the young Prince Henry to be heir.

Henry VIII was 18 when he became king and he was, indeed, over 6 feet tall (as were Edward I, Henry II and a few others). He also had the ruddy coloured hair of the Norman Plantagenets. This hair colour raises it's head every so often...a very Norman thing....and what were Normans....well, they were descended from Viking settlers.

Henry VIII died in his 50s, leaving a highly intelligent, but sickly son, as heir to the throne (he had reddish hair, too), and upon his death, he was succeded by Henry's elder daughter Mary (Bloody Mary), who reigned for five years. Her death saw a young and ruddy haired, young woman, ascend to the throne, Elizabeth I and she reigned until her death in 1603, the throne then passing to James Stuart (James VI of Scotland, but James I of England). Not to be confused with the Stewart family of his mother (Mary, Queen of Scots).

In 1630, James' younger son had been king for about five years, These Stuart's were not built like the Plantagenets. They were not tall and giant like. Also, the Stuart's had an arrogance about them, which would lead Charles I into civil war and the loss of his head and the abdication of his son, James II.

It could be said, if proved to be true, by DNA tests, that the present monarchy, is a bastard monarchy and that the true king of the country, a direct descendant of the Plantagenets, is alive and well and living in Australia. I do believe family and friends call him Mike!

And I didna Google that. :rolleyes:

[darkeyes]

''In 1630, Henry VII was considered to be a giant (literally) among men at an astounding (for the day) of 6'1" tall.

The avrage knight in the middle ages/Renaissance was considered to be a tall man at just 5' in height.''

Ah, Mr Falcon, we have to go back over another one hundred years to encounter Henry VII and he was most certainly not a very tall man. Also. he had no claim to the throne. Henry Tudor, though descended from Edward III, was not a direct claimant to the throne. What took place with the Lancastrians winning the day, over the Yorkists, at the very telling battle of Bosworth Field, was nothing short of a coup.

Henry VII reigned from 1485 until the early 1500s and to make sure his claim to the throne seemed justified, legal and worthy, he took for himself, as queen, Elizabeth, daughter of the late King Edward IV.

Now it is very likely that Edward IV was illegitemate, as his father Richard, Duke of York, was nowhere in the vicinity, when Edward was conceived. The pregnancy would have needed to be a very long one, for the then Duchess of York.

No fuss was made of the future Edward IV's birth, which was unusual, as he was a Royal Prince and a first born son. However, the following year, his brother George, Duke of Clarence, was born and great celebrations were held. Later, when Edward became king, George rebelled against his brother (probably pissed off that a bastard was on the throne), and was executed, He chose his own death......forget about anything Shakespeare may have written.

So after the death of Edward IV, Richard III no doubt did have the young Edward V and his brother murdered, considering them to be of the same bastard line and he being the rightful heir to the throne. Unlike his brother, George, Richard played a waiting game. Reports from visiting ambassadors, to the court of Edward IV, describe Richard as highly intelligent.

So Richard III reigned for three years, until that fateful day upon Bosworth Field, where he lost his life, in battle and Yep, folks, kings actually died in battle, leading their armies. Richard III had been a page, knave and then knight, training at the ''court,'' of the Earl of Warwick (Warwick the king maker), He was not deformed in any manner, though slight of build, compared to his brothers. He would have had an overdeveloped shoulder muscle, from training as a knight and using those huge swords, which knights were famous for.

So Henry Tudor ( that nasty, mean faced, little man), had seen the end of the Plantagenet dynasty, with the death of Richard III, yet had to marry the daughter of a dead king, to make sure that he held on to the throne.

Henry VII had Plantagenet blood in his veins and the Plantagenets were known for being tall and no doubt, his new queen, Elizabeth, also had Plantagenet/Norman blood (but from her father...hmmm). Their eldest son to be born and also heir to the throne, Arthur, died as a teenager, leaving the young Prince Henry to be heir.

Henry VIII was 18 when he became king and he was, indeed, over 6 feet tall (as were Edward I, Henry II and a few others). He also had the ruddy coloured hair of the Norman Plantagenets. This hair colour raises it's head every so often...a very Norman thing....and what were Normans....well, they were descended from Viking settlers.

Henry VIII died in his 50s, leaving a highly intelligent, but sickly son, as heir to the throne (he had reddish hair, too), and upon his death, he was succeded by Henry's elder daughter Mary (Bloody Mary), who reigned for five years. Her death saw a young and ruddy haired, young woman, ascend to the throne, Elizabeth I and she reigned until her death in 1603, the throne then passing to James Stuart (James VI of Scotland, but James I of England). Not to be confused with the Stewart family of his mother (Mary, Queen of Scots).

In 1630, James' younger son had been king for about five years, These Stuart's were not built like the Plantagenets. They were not tall and giant like. Also, the Stuart's had an arrogance about them, which would lead Charles I into civil war and the loss of his head and the abdication of his son, James II.

It could be said, if proved to be true, by DNA tests, that the present monarchy, is a bastard monarchy and that the true king of the country, a direct descendant of the Plantagenets, is alive and well and living in Australia. I do believe family and friends call him Mike!

In the latter part of your post you state that the Stuarts of the 17th century were "not tall and giant like". I'm not going to argue with you about that but it reminded me of something of a question about the birth of James VI (I of England).

James mother Mary Queen of Scots was tall.. about 6', and his father Henry Lord Darnley, something similar. I am not going to go into the fraught relationship between the two or his murder on Kirk o Field for which she was implicated.. Mary was confined for the birth of James in Edinburgh Castle, and the Queen gave birth to a son James on 19th June 1566. The man we know as James VI and who in 1603 became King of England was hardly a strapping picture of health but a little wizzened and not at all like his Tudor or Stewart ancestors tall and powerfully built.. rumours quickly surfaced that the child had been either still born or had died shortly after his birth, and was quickly disposed of and another child quickly found to take his place. Such was the insecurity of the existing ruling elite of the time it was felt necessary, as the Queen was never entirely secure on her throne. There is no suggestion that the Queen was ever a party to this and if true it is believed she thought the boy and man she knew as her son was indeed just that.

These rumours surfaced from time to time over the next 4 centuries but had always been denied for obvious reasons and for the implications for the incumbent monarchs of Scotland, England and latterly Great Britain and the United Kingdom.

In the mid 20th century, renovations were done on Edinburgh Castle. This included work on the room in which young James had been born. While doing the renovations, workmen pulled a way a panel in the room, and there they found the body of a new born male infant.

I don't know the truth of the matter, save that of the dead child in the castle.. but it does make get the mind going does it not?

Thanks for the reminder canticle, I haven't thought of that story since I was a child. But it certainly leaves even more doubt as to the legtiimacy of the present Royal Family...

[csrakate]

Ooh...I love this time in history and I am loving reading accounts from those of you over the pond, especially the little tidbits of dirt about babies switched at birth! LOL!

[darkeyes]

Ooh...I love this time in history and I am loving reading accounts from those of you over the pond, especially the little tidbits of dirt about babies switched at birth! LOL!

You wouldnt if I related the story of Malcom II, the baby girl and the cross, Mumsie...:(

[darkeyes]

Ooh...I love this time in history and I am loving reading accounts from those of you over the pond, especially the little tidbits of dirt about babies switched at birth! LOL!

You want dirt Mumsie? A little more.. David Rizzio was Mary's music teacher and friend.. he was murdered by Darnley and other Scottish nobles in Holyrood Palace in front of the Queen a few months before the birth of James because they believed he and Mary had been at it and the child in Mary's womb was not Darnley's but Rizzio's.. Rizzio was little and wizzened with gammie legs not unlike the adult james VI.. now far be it for me to say....but... :eek: It is the act of Rizzio's death which helped implicate Mary in the murder of her husband..

[darkeyes]

..and a last lil titbit for me luffly Mumsie since she is so interested..the last but is interestin nuntheless..

Also implicated in the death of Mary's husband Darnley, was James Hepburn, Earl of Bothwell. History records that Bothwell kidnapped the Queen, raped her and forced her to marry him..Hmmmm... Mary became pregnant by him, but she was captured by the Scots Nobility and imprisoned in Loch Leven Castle, and Bothwell was forced to flee for his life and died insane, imprisoned in Denmark. Mary gave birth to twin boys who we are told both died. I don't think anyone has seriously questioned this as being a natural occurrence. She was forced to abdicate and her half brother, James Stewart, Earl of Moray was appointed Regent to the young King James who I think was about a year old. Mary escaped from Loch Leven and fled to England where after an imprisonment of 18 years, where she undoubtadly plotted the downfall of Queen Elizabeth I (although Scots are usually taught that the casket papers which implicated her in such plotting are forgeries) and she lost her head at Fotheringhey Castle in 1587, thus being the main spark which precipitated the Spanish Armada the following year.

So ended the life of arguably the last true Stewart .. a very cultured royal bimbo, incapable of using the brains with which she was born.. romantic and tragic figure? Tragic anyway.. I know romance.. and her life story is no romance.

Right.. Fran goes off on one of her lil wanders 'gain.. soz.. tee hee.. o well.. it wos for Mumsie..:)

[csrakate]

Thank you, luffly tart..I enjoyed this little "history" lesson, truth or not LOL!:bigrin:

[darkeyes]

Thank you, luffly tart..I enjoyed this little "history" lesson, truth or not LOL!:bigrin:

Is truth ok.. as best we can tell from the history we kno.. mayb wos a bit naughty in part III in that me own dislike a the woman an me own suspicions a jus how stupid she reely wos cum through.. will say tho... wile she wosn 2 savvy, the guys round bout 'er wer absolute bastards!!! Guys round Elizabeth wer every bit is big a lotta bastards.. but me admire's 'er cos she used 'er nut and knew zactly wen an how 2 deal wiv ne bull...

.. but ifya wont a truly romantic an tragic story bout the Stewarts... ya can do worse than read bout Mary Stuart's Grampa, James IV.. his story wos ultimately the tragedy of an entire nation... he wos flawed, but cultured and quite brilliant.. but like so many Stewarts.. his cock got 'im in the end.. an the flower a Scottish manhood paid the price.. an the women and kids an those left who wer brutalised by the aftermath..:( But James is 1a me fave characters from history..ne 1's history.. certainlyb me fave monarch.. an ya kno mumsie? Fran is an has always been moren a lil bit in luv wiv the gett! Bastard tho 'e undoubtedly wos.. but such a luffly bastard!!!!

Fran...tangents hun..tangents..stop it.. *Chops off 'er 'ands*:eek:

[Canticle]

..and a last lil titbit for me luffly Mumsie since she is so interested..the last but is interestin nuntheless..

Also implicated in the death of Mary's husband Darnley, was James Hepburn, Earl of Bothwell. History records that Bothwell kidnapped the Queen, raped her and forced her to marry him..Hmmmm... Mary became pregnant by him, but she was captured by the Scots Nobility and imprisoned in Loch Leven Castle, and Bothwell was forced to flee for his life and died insane, imprisoned in Denmark. Mary gave birth to twin boys who we are told both died. I don't think anyone has seriously questioned this as being a natural occurrence. She was forced to abdicate and her half brother, James Stewart, Earl of Moray was appointed Regent to the young King James who I think was about a year old. Mary escaped from Loch Leven and fled to England where after an imprisonment of 18 years, where she undoubtadly plotted the downfall of Queen Elizabeth I (although Scots are usually taught that the casket papers which implicated her in such plotting are forgeries) and she lost her head at Fotheringhey Castle in 1587, thus being the main spark which precipitated the Spanish Armada the following year.

So ended the life of arguably the last true Stewart .. a very cultured royal bimbo, incapable of using the brains with which she was born.. romantic and tragic figure? Tragic anyway.. I know romance.. and her life story is no romance.

Right.. Fran goes off on one of her lil wanders 'gain.. soz.. tee hee.. o well.. it wos for Mumsie..:)

Well, Darnley it, Fran, I had thought of adding a little about Mary, but I felt I had written sufficient......for the time being. Poor Mary, Bothwell was her third husband......no luck with any of them. How many people remember that Mary was also, Queen of France, for a short while....and at such a tender age.

She was imprisoned, for a time, in a small castle not ten miles from where I live and it is said that she enjoyed the local ale, the area being the brewing capital of Miiddle England.

Of course her death was most gruesome. The executioner being inexperienced, the first blow struck the back of Mary's head and she was heard to cry out ''Sweet Jesu.'' The poor guy didn't make much of an impression with his second blow and after wielding the axe a few times, he finished the job, by using the axe like a saw.

When he held up Mary's head for all to see, it fell to the floor. Mary had been wearing a wig and although she was not yet 50, Mary was quite grey. Then from underneath her skirts, her little dog came running. The whole affair was quite a catastrophe.

You are right about Mary being highly intelligent....but sadly her life did read like some bad romantic novel. Wrong men, wrong supporters and she made very bad mistakes, when it came to whom she trusted.

I truly believe that Elizabeth I, did hum and hah about signing the death warrant. Not only was she sending another Queen to her death and a cousin, but also a fellow female, in a world which was most definitely still run by men. I think it must have been an incredibly difficult decision......but such is life and as the saying goes..''uneasy lies the head, that wears a crown.''

My biggest anti-hero (I don't have heroes), is Richard III.....and I really admire...as a historical figure, Edward I.....old Longshanks....a beast of a man...yet he adored his Queen....and of course he wasn't too fond of the Scottish. You have to admire a warrior King, who led his army into battle, stood well over six feet tall, and was buried, dressed as a Roman Emperor. What an ego. His tomb....plain Scottish granite, later inscribed, in Latin, with the words, ''Edward Rex, Hammer of the Scots''

When I get bored, I have been known to write down a list of all the monarchs, from Ethelred the Unready, to the present Queen.....lol.

[Canticle]

Heck, Fran....I almost missed your first post. Yes I have heard about those rumours, concerning James VI/I and the finding of the infant's body. I guess it has been something that has happened many times over the centuries....the finding of another baby, so that there was an heir.

Until our present Queen's own mother gave birth, the Lord Chamberlain had to be in the room where a Royal birth took place. The late George VI, the present Queen's father, would not allow this to happen. So the tradition ended. It started after the birth of James II's son, also James, to his second wife Mary of Modena. Once again...rumours.

And as for the earlier Scottish kings being tall and well built...that does not surprise me, with all the Viking ancestry, that there must be in that part of the world, and also the Plantagenet blood, via Henry VIII's sister Margaret.

By the way...I wonder how many people know that Queen Elizabeth II, our present monarch, was ''not of woman born.''.............

[darkeyes]

You don't honestly expect me to say anything nice about the Longshanks do you, Canticle? A real brute of a man who brought untold horrors on to the people of my country, who had the nations largest sea port put to the sword, and ended a century of progress and good relations between England and Scotland.. The reign of Alexander III is known as the golden age.. when progress was made socially for the poorest people of the country and there was relative prosperity for them.. conditions improved and life expectancy rose.. the poor began to make some real progress (in relative terms bearing in mind we are talking about a feudal society). Alexander's death and Edward's conniving put an end to that and began a 300 year war which in reality did not end until the accession of James VI (or Rab MacNulty or whatever his name was) to the throne of England.. Markets were closed to Scottish Merchants , the king and nation were excommunicated from the church, and there was a systematic annihilation of everyone who was anyone, and brutal repression set upon the Scottish people.. and I donnt think the Welsh like him too much either while I think about it..:tong:

.. no hun.. Edward I is not a favourite historical figure..

.. and PS Mumsie.. it was the story of Alexander II, the infant girl and the cross.. soz..my mistake..:(

[darkeyes]

You're right Canticle.. Mary was indeed queen of France.. her husband was Francois II of France but he died age 15 and she was quickly brought home to protect her own throne after the death of her mother Marie of Guise who had held Scotland for her against English aggression and protestant rebellion..

Francois' younger sister was Marguerite of Valois, known as Margot who eventually became wife to Henri, King of Navarre, and eventually King of France. Her voracious sexual appetite was legendary throughout Europe as was her undoubted beauty.. her mother was Catherine de Medici, and her father Henri II of France who was accidentally killed in tournament ironically I suppose by a captain of the French King's Scots Guard. Margot like james IV is also one of my favourite characters from history and like James I think I am in love with her a little too.. she was also a truly tragic and yet I think romantic figure.

Just about my favourite film of all time is a French film called La Reine Margot, a chronicle of her relationship with her brothers (all of whom became King and all of whom died tragically without heirs.. as was foretold by Nostradamus), mother, husband and lover.. Of course it isnt accurate as these films never are yet it does have an essential truth in that it is true to the spirit of the woman, and her life.. it is beautifully filmed and acted, and I recommend anyone who wants a good romantic weepy with a hard edge and a bloody good story to watch it.. not the version which was released to the US of course..they butchered that.. Of course la Reine Margot has the positively gorge Isabelle Adjani in the title role..an that fact in itself makes the film special special..

[Doggie_Wood]

[QUOTE=Canticle;161913][B]
Changing subject, slightly. Can you really order Amphetamines, in the way you are saying, in the USA? Are they really advertised?QUOTE]

I think that what we all read there Canticle was a spoof of the advertising that pervails the TV here in the US. Aimed at all the gullables that think they can actually get a "get thin pill".
The only pills that would give you energy and help loose weight were prescription and are no longer readily available and even rarely with a prescription are they the kind we used to get back in the 60s and 70s.
But to answer the actual querry: No - you can not order amphetamines from TV ads.

Doggie :doggie:

[TwylaTwobits]

No but you can order any number of different diet and weight loss pills from the net and online and you can buy them in the supermarket or even the corner gas station. All contain a mild dose of amphetimine. Same with the NoDoz and other stay awake pills and energy drinks. Not everything is good for us, not everything is bad for us. But by hell it seems everything is available 24/7 online and in all night drug stores and groceries and gas stations.

[Luffly1]

No but you can order any number of different diet and weight loss pills from the net and online and you can buy them in the supermarket or even the corner gas station. All contain a mild dose of amphetimine. Same with the NoDoz and other stay awake pills and energy drinks. Not everything is good for us, not everything is bad for us. But by hell it seems everything is available 24/7 online and in all night drug stores and groceries and gas stations.

One of my in laws ex girlfriends used to be addicted to vicodin. When her prescriptions ran out, she turned to the net. Last I heard she was still using the net as her dealer. You really can get anything you want if you are patient and take the time to poke around in the right places for it.

[boca.openminded]

Originally Posted by boca.openminded View Post

Its not healthy and we need to do something about it. We need to spend more time outdoors walking, biking, etc and less time indoors watching tv or playing video games.




I don't care if there are overweight people in society. I am not fat-phobic. I'm more concerned with the damage done by alcohol and cigarettes. From my point of view there are far too many chain-smoking, drunks around. I guess that's because I am a sober ex-smoker....

d:bipride:

Being overweight, smoking, drinking, are ALL major problems that effect all of us. I applaud you (seriously) for quit smoking & drinking and I hope you pass your knowledge onto others. Smoking causes cancer but being overweight can lead to high blood pressure & diabetes which can lead to death.

I dont nor ever smoked but many people around me did. So, this effects me. Ive had family members & friends who eventually changed their life because they were in the hospital. All of a sudden the excuses stopped and they quit (smoking or drinking). How come after heart surgery a smoker then can quit cold turkey?

Like I said in an earlier post, many people make every excuse to change until their life is on the line. Hopefully, its not too late but for some it is.

We are all a bit lazy and hate changes so we are comfortable the way we are. Change takes alot of hard work and most of us do not want to put in the time & effort.

Yes, there are things we cant control because its hereditary but there are things that we can control...

I had many smokers around me in my life. Some are not with us anymore (getting teary just thinking about it) but some are. I fought hard & loud for these people to quit. I even talked about 2nd hand smoke. Of course the smoker tells you its bullshit & the reports out there are fabricated. It truly bothers me seeing people (especially young kids) smoking. Its an expensive & disgusting habit.

You can believe what you want to believe. You can argue with me all you want. You can make every excuse in the book BUT you (general) are just proving my point: Its easier to point fingers at other people then at ourselves!

PS: Dont misunderstand my emotions. I do love this site & everyone (chat & forums) that I have talked to. Disagreeing is what makes the world go around. It makes great discussions where we can all learn something and I appreciate all the feedback. At least we are all on the same page as far as there are major health concerns in the world that we can help each other...