Update on Constance's Prom

[MarieDelta]

http://nmisscommentor.com/2010/04/04/what-happened-at-constance-mcmillans-prom/


Here’s the news, from a source I view as extremely reliable. The prom the school district promised at the country club in Fulton was a ruse. Only seven kids, Constance, and her date showed, and at the same time, everyone else held a “real” prom at a secret location out in the county.

This is all after the school district had represented to Judge Davidson that Constance was invited to a parent-sponsored prom to be held at Tupelo Furniture Market. The school represented that Constance was invited in court filings, testimony, and representations by the school district and its lawyers. In reality, Constance had not been invited, but, based on the representations by the district and its counsel, Judge Davidson denied Constance’s request for a preliminary injunction that she could go to the prom.


The school reneged, or possibly didn’t ever intend to follow through on its representations to the court. The parents didn’t want Constance at the prom and didn’t want to be sued (as they told the Clarion Ledger), and so on Tuesday announced the cancellation of the prom.

But what they’d done was secretly relocated it.

Shortly thereafter, the school’s attorney announced (on Wednesday) that “the prom” was to be held at the Fulton Country Club on Friday. But yet only seven kids showed up.

Meanwhile, there’s a rumor that school officials were directly involved in setting up the “fake” prom.

I have several distinct reactions here. First, there’s a cowardice and dishonesty to this that I would hope even folks who don’t accept Constance McMillen’s right to be herself would find reprehensible. Second, at times it’s crossed my mind that there were some folks out there working in school systems who really loved the kind of petty crap that went on in high school and get far too much pleasure out of reliving it (this is not a comment on school professionals generally!). At second hand, I’m sensing that in the folks making the decisions for the school in Itawamba County. Third, at the back of my mind this whole time has been my experience of being a ninth grader when the Fifth Circuit decided they’d had it, and that it was time for complete (rather than token) integration of public education in Mississippi. One outcome was an immediate cancellation of school-sponsored proms, leading in turn to private proms that, in the white community, became sort of junior auxiliaries for the Ole Miss (or the like) greek system, with all the exclusion and related snottiness that could imply.

I do have this recall of Kent Moorhead (to his credit) as president of the student council a year ahead of me at Oxford High, making a large thing out of trying to bring back school sponsored buses to out-of-town football games (I think he won on that one) and school proms (he lost that one). I’d hope for some student leader to join Constance in telling the grownups how to behave, but I’m not holding my breath.


I'd like to say that things were better , but they are not. It seems that people in this town are a bunch of low rent jerks.

So yep, if I were her or any queer youth in this town, I'd be gone so fast it'd make your head spin.

So much for "it's not really so bad in small southern bible belt towns" , eh?

Lying bastards.

[TwylaTwobits]

Another couple takes on the fake prom

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/05/constance-mcmillen-fake-p_n_525856.html

http://www.towleroad.com/2010/04/confirmed-constance-mcmillen-attended-queer-outcast-prom-while-the-cool-straight-kids-partied-elsewh-1.html

I can't say I'm surprised at all, small towns have a way of handling things. It appears from the judge's ruling that he declined the injunction and the school officials said there would be a prom everyone would be invited to sponsored by the parents. The fact was there was a prom even if there was another prom elsewhere. And Constance and her date were invited and attended a prom.

It was not in the spirit of what everyone wanted and that was for her to be able to attend a prom with all of her classmates. But as long as the school board proves everyone "was invited" they will probably get away with it. I have to wonder if they provided the other benefits of the prom to the small group? Was there a photographer and music and decorations?

I don't think this is the end of ramifications for Constance McMillen in that town. But I can guarantee you they will probably be just inside the law from now on. It will be subtle, things like a cashier suddenly taking a break when its time to wait on the McMillens, food being burnt at restaurants, loan apps denied, credit declined. I think she should get the hell out of there as fast the money from Ellen will take her. On a side note, how much do you think the fact that she got the money from Ellen and that the ACLU of Mississippi turned down a 20,000 donation from a Good without God without asking the town had to do with the fact there was a dance she wasn't invited to?

[FalconAngel]

I know quite a few people of a wide variety of religions. Amongst the Christians that I know, there is integrity and honesty.

The people in that town are not Christian in my book. They are liars, cheats and deceivers.

The greatest crime of the Devil is not making people not believe in him, but that he can make people believe that he is God, so that they follow him instead.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

On a side note, how much do you think the fact that she got the money from Ellen and that the ACLU of Mississippi turned down a 20,000 donation from a Good without God without asking the town had to do with the fact there was a dance she wasn't invited to?

Ok...I'm lost here. Good without God?
Confused Cat

[TwylaTwobits]

Hang on Cat I'll find the article. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/us/01prom.html

Should have used the proper name but the mission is Good without God, they are a group of atheists...and I just noticed when I went to find the story the freaking prom is scheduled May 8th?? So how could they hold a fake prom now? Sighs........

[Long Duck Dong]

aclu declines prom money (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/us/01prom.html)
there you go cat


as for constance and her issues....... mmm.....

bigotry and biased doesn't exist in towns, senates, countries etc.... it exists in heads, minds and thoughts..... thats where it starts.....
and that is what we are seeing here.... with the slamming of the school board again and peoples beliefs......

the answer is not there and nor was it in the courts..... the answer is in understanding other people and in order to do that, we need to look in the mirror, cos the same biased anti christian bs that is being spouted off, is no different to the anti lgbt bs that we are seeing around the world......
the only difference is the wording......

I said in another thread that I had concerns about the way things were going and how it was not gonna turn out good, as you can win a battle in court, but you can not win the war...... ....this has been proven to be correct, despite the fact I am not a american and do not know anything

we can NOT win the fight for equal treatment in courts etc, if we are not changing opinions in peoples heads......

in nz, we changed the thinking of christians and churchs from anti lgbt, to pro right to marry for lgbt, not by fighting in courts.... but by showing the christians that god will not judge them for looking after his children and treating the least of them as equal to all of gods children,....and that god will deal with us..... sparing the christians the issue for judging others and having to argue their own beliefs to do it......
the christians and churchs still do not approve of lgbt behievour, but they now rest safe in the knowledge that god will not judge them for not judging us, but for their actions in treating us as one of gods children....

btw, zealand is less than 200 years colonized by europeans ....and if we have come this far so fast, it really begs the question as to does our way work, or is it time for yet another court case......

[darkeyes]

Hang on Cat I'll find the article. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/us/01prom.html

Should have used the proper name but the mission is Good without God, they are a group of atheists...and I just noticed when I went to find the story the freaking prom is scheduled May 8th?? So how could they hold a fake prom now? Sighs........

April 1 2010.. chill and check lovers mine..:)

[TwylaTwobits]

April 1 2010.. chill and check lovers mine..:)

ROFLMAO yeah the date is unfortunate but other stories back it up including the dismay of the town that the ACLU acted without consulting anyone.

[darkeyes]

ROFLMAO yeah the date is unfortunate but other stories back it up including the dismay of the town that the ACLU acted without consulting anyone.

o well.. didn hav time 2 check mesel Twyla.. but will lata on.. summat fishy huh? Didn think its wos all gonna end up all sweetness an lite..

[Long Duck Dong]

the more I read on the net about what has happened... the more it appears that there is something going on that is not being addressed

the judge ruled about a private prom.... but what one....there were 3 proms

the private one that got cancelled as it had the same rules as the school prom..... it was cancelled by the parents as they feared getting sued....
apparently that was the private prom referred to in the court documents

so another was organized, at the fulton country club.... who arranged that one is not entirely clear.....

but there was a 3rd and according to what I read, students arranged that one, and why was it quiet and private....??? gee, maybe they wanted a prom...not a media circus..... and I can understand that, the last thing a person would want is to finally have a prom and have media with cameras and microphones hanging around and being a pain in the ass.... it can disrupt the whole night....

so constance got her prom..... and what would you know..... its STILL not good enuf.... so what is going to be good enuf.... when is the thirst for blood gonna be sated.....

I thought that people were happy with constances win in court....

btw, apparently constances partner said NO to going to the prom with constance .... and if that is true, I can understand why..... the 30k scholarship and internment, is not gonna help constances partner.... and nor is the fact that constances partner is also a lesbian / bi ( not sure on that )....... yet... we seem to have forgotten about her..... btw, anybody know her name ..... ??? or is she just one of the many faceless people that we do not acknowledge in the fight over lgbt rights...

[MarieDelta]

War isnt lost, not by a long shot.

This skirmish may be looking bleak, but the overall struggle, not even close.

In my opinion she has brought to light the prejudice and overall homophobia in this small town. That is just a first step.

In addition the school board has now shown themselves to be willing to lie to a federal judge. You dont think there wont be consequences for them? I do.

As they said in the article
(http://www.towleroad.com/2010/04/confirmed-constance-mcmillen-attended-queer-outcast-prom-while-the-cool-straight-kids-partied-elsewh-1.html)


"Kristy Bennett, legal director for the ACLU of Mississippi, said her organization was still gathering details about what happened Friday night to determine whether they would ask Davidson for sanctions. At the least, Bennett said the details about Friday’s prom would be used in the organization’s damages suit against the district, which is still being developed. 'We are disappointed at the sparse attendance, and we’re looking further into the situation,' Bennett said. 'Whatever we find will be brought to the court’s attention, whether it is in the damages trial, or whatever. There will still be a trial on the merits. The case didn’t end in the preliminary hearing.'"

[TwylaTwobits]

Ah but Marie what exactly was the judge's decision? That she should be allowed to attend A prom with her choice of partner (she didn't get that because her partner refused to go and be in the middle of a circus but she did go with another female) and be allowed to wear a tux to have her passive protest. She got it. Nowhere did it say she would have the companionship of all the student body at her prom. By her own admission she and the other students had fun, that's what it was about having fun. It's a tangled story but I just don't see where they will be able to do anything that won't cause further divisions in that town.

[MarieDelta]

That was just the preliminary judgement, based on the fact that there would be a prom for her to go to.

Separate but equal, isnt equal. We know this from other civil rights cases.

Of course we have to wait and see what comes out in the case, but this is going to hurt the school board, in the end.

As far as divisiveness in the community, too late. The community was never a whole, not to its GLBT members, that much is obvious. It seems that you could never be out in this small town anyways. Not based on what Constance and Juin went through.

[12voltman59]

Well --what do ya expect from a bunch of knuckle draggin' cro-magnan, lower than dirt, ignoramoose Mississippi, homophobic, racist rednecks?? LOL (yes--I am stereotyping here!!)

Like I said----Constance's best revenge---go off to college---do well there--get some job that pays her big time bucks---she comes back to that shit hole town in seven or so years with her smoking hot lesbian partner---then she pays for a kick ass prom that is open to anyone who wants to attend: gay couples, lesbian couples, black and white couples---with the only exculusion being those who want to disrupt the event----and the proms she pays for blows anything the school board puts on.

But then again---maybe she would be better off to simply leave that place and never return.

You do have to feel sorry for those who live in places like that shit hole town who are stuck there--- who are not "normal" (in a variety of ways) and have to suffer the crap dished out by the "good and normal people" of such places. Just about every state has a few such places---its not just limited to states like Mississippi---it just seems that most of Mississippi is pretty much like that.

It is a shame that those people pulled such shennanigans, but it is really not so surprising they did.

[*jeannie*]

so constance got her prom..... and what would you know..... its STILL not good enuf.... so what is going to be good enuf.... when is the thirst for blood gonna be sated.....

*

she got her prom? that wasn't a prom. everyone, except the seven who showed up, pulled a fast one and had the real prom someplace else and she was not invited.

she didn't get her prom, Long Duck Dong. she got cheated out of it and you know it. you are clearly trying to make constance seem like the bad guy in this matter when all she wanted was equal rights.

you are obviously pretending to be for GLBT people and equal rights but always proving otherwise.

and, it's pathetic that most here are either too blind to see it or too scared to speak out against your BS.

[MarieDelta]

the more I read on the net about what has happened... the more it appears that there is something going on that is not being addressed

the judge ruled about a private prom.... but what one....there were 3 proms

the private one that got cancelled as it had the same rules as the school prom..... it was cancelled by the parents as they feared getting sued....
apparently that was the private prom referred to in the court documents

so another was organized, at the fulton country club.... who arranged that one is not entirely clear.....

but there was a 3rd and according to what I read, students arranged that one, and why was it quiet and private....??? gee, maybe they wanted a prom...not a media circus..... and I can understand that, the last thing a person would want is to finally have a prom and have media with cameras and microphones hanging around and being a pain in the ass.... it can disrupt the whole night....

so constance got her prom..... and what would you know..... its STILL not good enuf.... so what is going to be good enuf.... when is the thirst for blood gonna be sated.....

I dont understand this comment. It seems that you are saying that she should just give in, or not pushed the point in the first place. It seems that you are coming from a place of colaboration, meaning that you are willing to do anything to keep the peace? Is that what you are saying? That the only way we win is if we keep the peace and do not struggle?

I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to understand your reasoning.

I know that you aren't for activism and that you feel the only way to win is by winning "the hearts and minds" of those that opose us. However I come from a very different place. I dont think its possible to keep everyone happy, and in the end, in some cases, its never going to be enough. Not until we simply vanish from sight all together. Shoved back into the closet, never to be seen or spoken of again.

This is why being open and out is important. It isnt for us it's for those like us and those who come after us. We make one step towards acceptance in this generation, maybe down the road everyone(or almost everyone) takes it for granted that LGBT should be accepted as equal members of a society.

However we can't do that work if we are shoved into the closet. In the closet we are silenced, forced to not speak. It isnt safer, in fact its more dangerous to be in the closet. More opportunity to be blackmailed. More opportunity to be hurt, and not be able to reach out for the help you need.



"and when we speak we are afraid
our words will not be heard
nor welcomed
but when we are silent
we are still afraid
So it is better to speak
remembering
we were never meant to survive"
— Audre Lorde (The Black Unicorn: Poems)







I thought that people were happy with constances win in court....

btw, apparently constances partner said NO to going to the prom with constance .... and if that is true, I can understand why..... the 30k scholarship and internment, is not gonna help constances partner.... and nor is the fact that constances partner is also a lesbian / bi ( not sure on that )....... yet... we seem to have forgotten about her..... btw, anybody know her name ..... ??? or is she just one of the many faceless people that we do not acknowledge in the fight over lgbt rights...

[12voltman59]

I was thinking the other day while doing one of my walks---this one was when I was down on the Ohio River where I took the photos that I had posted up yesterday.

The thing I was thinking about was the old argument about whether or not being gay is a choice---as the rightwing nuts like to say it is--and whether people are just simply "gay" or not by nature----but it really pissed me off that this is any sort of discussion-----here in America----and this should really apply to true, libertarian conservative types who believe this----as long as it is consenting adults who aren't "hurting anyone but themselves"--it is not the business of government or of others whether someone is gay----by choice or by nature----because in this land that is supposed to be all about personal choice and freedom---it should not matter one damn bit if someone is GLBT and they are that way out of choice or if they were "made that way."

And if one does "chose" to be "gay"---then they should not lose any of the rights that are supposed to be conferred upon them as citizens of the United
States of America---since "gays" can still be subject to losing much of their rights including a right to earn a livilihood, where they can live, whether they can raise a child in some of our states----it would be pretty damn crazy for someone to freely chose abdicating a sizeable portion of their constitutional and civil rights.

As for Constance----I think she is a very brave girl who is not asking for any "special rights" ---she is merely asking to be treated just like any of her fellow classmates and that school board certainly discriminated against her out of their narrow minded and fear based views regarding "gay" people.

Apparently the case law was established when it comes to things like gay students being able to attend a school prom--and the law says that they cannot be discrimimminated against---so the school board members willfully decided to act contrary to the law---so by all rights--they should be at the very least-- they should be removed from office for failing to uphold their oaths to abide by the laws and the constitutions of the US and State of Mississippi.

All due respects LDD--it matters not what the laws, customs, etc are down your way--what applies here are the laws of the US and Mississippi. I think that they clearly did discriminate against Constance----I hope that someway, somehow--the members of that school board are made to answer for their failure to do the right thing as required by law and out of just plain human decency.

[*jeannie*]

12voltman59, i fully agree with you on that. :)

[TwylaTwobits]

I'm curious....I pretty much said the same thing LDD said and he gets blasted. I get responded to very politely by Marie and life goes on. I stated my reasons for my thoughts and we know that it will come down to a lot of proof being provided on both sides as the case goes to court. Rational people can disagree without being vindictive about it. Jeannie this is the second time you have flown off the deep end at someone claiming they are anti LGBT. You don't have a clue about the fights he's been a part in to help establish equality for all people.

It's like a tale of two trans here.... one I'd hug if I ever get the opportunity to meet and one I'd love to kick her ass. You all decide which it is. As for my statement, if you don't like it, feel free to put me on ignore and then you will never know how I feel about LGBT rights and how vocal I am when posting and in public.

[*jeannie*]

I dont understand this comment. It seems that you are saying that she should just give in, or not pushed the point in the first place. It seems that you are coming from a place of colaboration, meaning that you are willing to do anything to keep the peace? Is that what you are saying? That the only way we win is if we keep the peace and do not struggle?

that's what he is saying here and it's what he has been saying in the other threads on this topic also. Long Duck Dong is on the other team but pretending to be on our team. he is working against us from the inside by pretending to be one of us. it should be obvious to everyone by now but some just don't want to believe it.

[*jeannie*]

Jeannie this is the second time you have flown off the deep end at someone claiming they are anti LGBT. You don't have a clue about the fights he's been a part in to help establish equality for all people.

whatever fights he has been in, he has definitely been on the side against GLBT people having equal rights.

as for you, i am sorry you can't see thru your desperation to have someone to see the truth about him.

you are only hurting yourself by willingly wearing the blindfold of "benefit of the doubt". it is sad but you will be hurt one day when you finally realize the truth of what i'm saying about him.

[TwylaTwobits]

whatever fights he has been in, he has definitely been on the side against GLBT people having equal rights.

as for you, i am sorry you can't see thru your desperation to have someone to see the truth about him.

you are only hurting yourself by willingly wearing the blindfold of "benefit of the doubt". it is sad but you will be hurt one day when you finally realize the truth of what i'm saying about him.

I already know the truth about him, I know things about him that no one else on here knows and things about him a lot of people in his life don't know. He has been open about his dysthimia on here, he has been open about being intersex, he has not been open about something that affected him severely but that is his tale to tell if he wishes. You are judging someone for the last few threads, go read the history of his posts and you will see that he believes in rights for all and would love for everything to be equal for everyone. That will never happen as long as the LGBT is so divided amongst itself, if you can't stand shoulder to shoulder then how in the hell do you expect us to stand with you? Think on that before you alienate everyone with one sweep of your biased brush. To that end...a post that actually was from a site that reminds everyone not to be so quick to label the other students as homophobes.

http://trueslant.com/colinhorgan/2010/04/06/constance-mcmillen-lesbian-high-school-fake-prom/

Oh and excuse the hell out of me? What do you mean by the comment that I am desperate to have someone?

[darkeyes]

I often dont see eye to eye with Duckie and often fail to see his logic which I find all too often challenging to say the least. Yet he is no more anti lgbt than is the vast majority of genuine Bi gay and Trans peeps on site.. sure he sees things differently and of course what he says is drastically different from many of the mainstream posts we get on site.. but every one of us sees the way ahead differently from each other in some small way or even as is the case with Duckie.. very often very substantially on many issues..

We want to see lgbt rights equal to any and all of those enjoyed by the heterosexual population. Over the last half century and more there have been people such as Duckie warning much as he does about the consequences of how we act and react on many issues.. many argue about going farther than others.. and faster.. changing tactics altogether.. becoming more militant or more passive, more visible or less visible.. that we should drop certain issues as too controversial.. every one of us would advance lgbt issues in a different way from the person standing next to us.. Duckie is a bit of a devil's advocate, and a bit daft quite often.. and much too reluctant in my view to take the big steps because he doesnt want to see people get hurt.. but anti us? I don't think so.. if he and I were in the same political party I think we would be on different wings of it.. and thats how I see him.. as a comrade with the same aims and objectives but more cautious about how we achieve them...

[FalconAngel]

that's what he is saying here and it's what he has been saying in the other threads on this topic also. Long Duck Dong is on the other team but pretending to be on our team. he is working against us from the inside by pretending to be one of us. it should be obvious to everyone by now but some just don't want to believe it.

I agree.

If he is on our side, in this, then he has been pulling a Homer Simpson; trying the same thing, that repeatedly fails, hoping for different or successful results. At that rate an Einstein moment is not very likely.

If he is not really on our side in this, it is likely that he is trying to convince us that a method with a long history of failure will work; as long as we do it enough times.

I prefer the stand up and fight philosophy. It worked in the War of Independence, WWI and WWII, Black Voters, Women voters, etc.

The one who stays silent is the one who's silence endorses the evil actions of tyrants.

[FalconAngel]

whatever fights he has been in, he has definitely been on the side against GLBT people having equal rights.

as for you, i am sorry you can't see thru your desperation to have someone to see the truth about him.

you are only hurting yourself by willingly wearing the blindfold of "benefit of the doubt". it is sad but you will be hurt one day when you finally realize the truth of what i'm saying about him.

Very true, but to put it in only two sentences;
Faith is belief in the absence of evidence. Foolishness is belief in direct contradiction of evidence.

Something to think about.

And if he does this because of something in his past, then he needs to face those fears and deal with them directly.

Fear kills more men than bullets. -- General G.S. Patton.

[darkeyes]

Let it be known I am one of those not afraid to speak out against the BS of LDD. It's obvious that while some people suffer from selective hearing, LDD suffers from "selective reading". It is unfathomable that LDD can even attempt to argue that Constance got her prom.

Thanks jeannie for so beautifully calling a spade a spade.

Name calling is never a beautiful thing. It is ugly and it is childish. Anyone who says other must have a sad little life and been brought up without manners..

When Duckie needs it, I and many others have pulled him up and criticised what he has said and why.. we do not need to resort to the actions of the brain dead.. name calling and accusations made with bile. If you are unable too argue properly and with a modicum of decorum, to take issue and justify what you say without becoming personal, I suggest you say nothing. Of course you won't take my advice and that is your right. Just as it is Duckie's right to say things as he sees them, it is also yours. But it is unedifying and unpleasant and makes you, and Jeannie even more so, begin to look spiteful and dreadfully small.

This thread has like so many others of late degenerated from being a debate on an important issue to being a personal slagging match, the posts which have been of value, and have had something to say, lost in a turbulent sea of crap and bile.

[Billys_gurl]

It seems that the more I read the forums the more I am catching myself sighing and shaking my head. Things lately are getting so blown out of proportion anymore. What happened to being open minded? I thought the forums were for discussing topics, not ripping each other to shreds. LDD has his own way of thinking, and responding. I understand where the comment about Constance getting her prom would upset many people, but if you all haven't noticed LDD isn't from here. I think he already fought his good fight and he is trying to make some of us realize that sometimes it doesn't help.

Twyla and LDD, I like your posts. You make me think and see both sides of the argument and I like that. Seeing one point of view is like looking in a mirror, reflecting only what you want to see. And before anyone else decides to rant and rave at me, I DO support GLBT rights, privileges, and all of that. I just like being able to do it MY WAY! And second, see my second signature. Thank You.

[csrakate]

In the almost five years that I've been coming to this site, I have NEVER witnessed such infantile bickering as I have these last few weeks. So you don't agree with someone...that NEVER gives you the right to name call and berate. While I don't always agree with LDD, I will defend his right to have an opinion and I will scoff at those "conspiracy theorists" who think he's here with some underhanded personal agenda to uproot the rights of the LGBT. Stop with the pissing matches and simply agree to disagree....the rest of us are getting sick of it.

[*jeannie*]

You are judging someone for the last few threads,

let's think about what you just said... "judging someone for the last few threads"... you did not disagree with what i, and some others, have deduced from his posts in those last few threads i see... threads in which he repeatedly pretends to be on our "pro-equal rights for all" team but is clearly playing for the other team.


go read the history of his posts and you will see that he believes in rights for all and would love for everything to be equal for everyone.

he says he wants equal rights for all but he proves with other statements that he is against equal rights for all. you have chosen to ignore those statments made by him.


That will never happen as long as the LGBT is so divided amongst itself, if you can't stand shoulder to shoulder then how in the hell do you expect us to stand with you?

he is not standing shoulder to shoulder with us. he is trying to destroy our efforts from within. he is duplicitous (definition for you... deceitful in speech or conduct; speaking or acting in two different ways concerning the same matter with intent to deceive).


Think on that before you alienate everyone with one sweep of your biased brush.

you need to think about what he is really up to instead of blinding yourself to his anti-GLBT agenda out of some desperate need to have a man.


Oh and excuse the hell out of me? What do you mean by the comment that I am desperate to have someone?

you must be desperate to have chosen to ignore his habit of duplicity.

i'm sorry but if the shoe doesn't fit, why did you buy the pair?

*

[csrakate]

you need to think about what he is really up to instead of blinding yourself to his anti-GLBT agenda out of some desperate need to have a man.

*

Jeannie, you have really gone too far this time. You have no right to make such a statement to Twyla....and you simply continue to lessen the integrity of your own arguments in this matter.

[*jeannie*]

Jeannie, you have really gone too far this time. You have no right to make such a statement to Twyla....and you simply continue to lessen the integrity of your own arguments in this matter.

i'm sorry she feels some need to support Long Duck Dong when he is so obviously playing for the "no equal rights for GLBT people" team while pretending to be playing for them.

she can only be doing it out of desperation or ignorance of the REAL Long Duck Dong. i believe it is both actually.

[csrakate]

But who are YOU to declare who LDD is rooting for or what his intentions are...it is merely your OPINION...nothing more. And as a result of drawing this opinion of yours, you have decided to criticize and insult the woman who loves him. That is hardly the way to debate an issue and far from doing so in a a fair and decent manner. I may not agree with LDD's comments, but I am offended by yours.

[*jeannie*]

But who are YOU to declare who LDD is rooting for or what his intentions are...it is merely your OPINION...nothing more.

oh? is that why some others (those with sense, that is) also believe Long Duck Dong is doing it? i have not been expressing an opinion but merely pointed out the truth. i'm sorry you are another one who has chosen to be blinded to the truth.


And as a result of drawing this opinion of yours, you have decided to criticize and insult the woman who loves him.

i'm sorry she loves him because he is definitely not for equal rights for GLBT people and, no doubt, he is lying to her as well about other things. i feel so sorry for her when she finally realizes what sort of person he really is.


I may not agree with LDD's comments, but I am offended by yours.

you can be offended all you want. i simply cannot see how she (and some others for that matter) can be so blind as to not see what he is really trying to do here.

[JP1986UM]

The real issues are thus:

1. Did the real prom happen and what constitutes the definition of Prom by the school districts standards and prior history?

2. Why were only 7 people at the "real" prom and the rest of the student body at a separate event? If they intentionally evaded the prom, even if set up privately, there should be an explanation IF there were any school officials in attendance.

3. It seems the only people at the "real" prom were the lesbian students and the "learning disabled" students. This is odd and curious as to why only a select few seem to be in attendance and would constitute a discriminatory class on their own.

4. Who sponsored this other event and what relationship did they have to any affected students of the prior action?

Answer these questions and you have an understanding of what can and might happen.

[csrakate]

I never said Jeannie couldn't speak her mind in relation to the prom situation....I took issue with her relentless insistence that LDD is some sort of "undercover" agent for the other side that led to the insults that she leveled at LDD's g/f Twyla. I said that I didn't necessarily agree with LDD's opinions, but I also don't agree with the way Jeannie has drawn conclusions and leveled accusations. I find it ludicrous that Jeannie feels she can proclaim LDD as anti-LGBT and Twyla as a "desperate woman" who'd do anything to get a man but let anyone disagree with Jeannie's tactics and she cries foul.

As for LDD likening you to an Ass...I must say that I didn't catch that comment, but had I seen it, I would have felt the same about that comment as I feel about the comments Jeannie has made about LDD and Twyla. Name calling is never acceptable in a fair and reasonable debate and it merely disrupts the issue and divides the community.

[Long Duck Dong]

ok yes I am out spoken.... yes I am disagreeable... but its not my ignorance that is the issue...

my logic is simple..... while others may take about about how the us won the second world war.... you will see me talk about how it was a team effort, a combined effort...... ie I support everybody, not one group

while you see everybody against constance, I will see constance mishandling things in a town that is not overly friendly towards change..... but I do not see everybody in that town as the same mentality..... as they are as diverse as everybody in this site, not single minded like people want them to be

it would be a bit like statements that all gays have anal sex, all lesbians are man haters, all bis will cheat in order to get laid.... and all heteros are anti lgbt....
that is the mentality that people are using to define a town, and constance.... cos it fuels their dislike of people they have NEVER met..... and the view point that its poor lgbt v's the rest of the world

the simple fact is how the fuck can we expect to gain allies, when there are people in that town that could be for constance and the lgbt, and all they can see, is the narrow minded, biased, bigotry from people that are lgbt.... all they will be seeing is we hate them because of the actions of others...

the blanket statements that its a small town, so logic dictates that they must all be anti lgbt, christians etc etc etc.......

we fight against the same narrow minded bigotry and biased that people in this site are demonstrating against a town..... not the people RESPONSIBLE.... but the whole bloody town......

I seriously question the mentality of people that come to a widely diverse and international site... full of many people with varying viewpoints and opinions....... and bring their own brand of opinionated bigotry with them against people in this site..... against LGBT people in this site.... then sit in the site, bitching about how others are biased against the lgbt

its like I said earlier..... biased and bigotry is not in small towns, senates, churchs, governments etc...... it exists in heads and minds.... as shown by a number of people in this thread......

if being open minded is a crime, convict me
if being considerate of other peoples opinions, judge me
if understanding that not everybody thinks the same, sentence me
and if accepting that not everybody agrees, give me the death penality

i would rather see that we have allies in unusual places and seek out the truth.... then sit in a website, carrying on like a spoilt lil brat, blaming the world for everything and slamming the people that have fought for and got equal rights ( civil union bill ) for everybody.... ie the lgbt and the heteros....

btw yes, I fought for everybody equally,.... cos we are all equal, we are all human and we all have to live on this fucking earth.....
the difference is, that is how I see things..... not lgbt and the rest of the world...... but one world, one people, and diversity

[Long Duck Dong]

I dont understand this comment. It seems that you are saying that she should just give in, or not pushed the point in the first place. It seems that you are coming from a place of colaboration, meaning that you are willing to do anything to keep the peace? Is that what you are saying? That the only way we win is if we keep the peace and do not struggle?

I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to understand your reasoning.

I know that you aren't for activism and that you feel the only way to win is by winning "the hearts and minds" of those that opose us. However I come from a very different place. I dont think its possible to keep everyone happy, and in the end, in some cases, its never going to be enough. Not until we simply vanish from sight all together. Shoved back into the closet, never to be seen or spoken of again.

This is why being open and out is important. It isnt for us it's for those like us and those who come after us. We make one step towards acceptance in this generation, maybe down the road everyone(or almost everyone) takes it for granted that LGBT should be accepted as equal members of a society.

However we can't do that work if we are shoved into the closet. In the closet we are silenced, forced to not speak. It isnt safer, in fact its more dangerous to be in the closet. More opportunity to be blackmailed. More opportunity to be hurt, and not be able to reach out for the help you need.

what I was saying, is that we need to look at cutting our losses before we start to look like we can never be happy with anything

constance won in the court case.... we can agree on that.... with the ruling by the judge.....
but with the ruling on the prom, that are a differcult ruling....as it applied to the prom that the judge knew about..... not any prom that may or may not take place.....
that is our ruling, not the judges......

as I have said before, constance was not wrong for standing up for what she believed in....... but what the outcome has been is not the fairy tale ending it appears that people want.....

what I can see is constance won in regards to her personal rights.... the right to go to the prom and the right to dress as she chose......
she never won the right to take her partner to the prom.... she won the right to go to the prom with her partner, IF her partner chose to go with her...

now constance went to A prom.... maybe not the school prom, maybe not the prom she wanted, but to A prom.... and there has been many offers of proms to go to... from other schools and people that wanted to provide for a prom......

theres it in a nutshell...... but now its come down to the fight over if constance went to a prom that we deem acceptable and up to standards, if we accept the fact that pushing this issue, is no longer about lgbt rights.... but about the type of prom and is it was at the right place, and at the right time and location and the right music played etc

constance won.... for the lgbt and heteros.... not just for the lgbt...... we can embrace that...... or we can start fighting over proms that are not done to the satisfaction of the lgbt....

do we really want to push the issue beyond lgbt rights.... and start appearing like we also want to control where and how proms are held and by who and what the cricteria is for the prom..... or do we want to enjoy the victory we have..... that lgbt and heteros can not be told they can not dress in certain ways, or take people in a way that is deemed wrong.... and discriminating against ANY person


now I am not supporting what happened with the prom cancellation etc, as I do not know for sure, who did want..... and to pass judgment without facts is something that can make people look like fools...... but if it goes to court, and a judge presides over it, a ruling will be made......
and I hope to god that the lgbt do not end up with egg on their face by being told that while school proms are for every student...... that not attending a private function is not a infringement of lgbt rights.....

[TwylaTwobits]

You know what Jeannie, I am not gonna be near as nasty in my response to you as I want to be. He's not lying to me but you are lying to yourself. Take a look at your profile. Seeking to be with a sadist, someone who will dominate you. You sure the fuck aren't submissive. You try to dominate every thread.
Now really get off your high horse and stop acting like you are the be all end all. I've had someone tell me that you might be suffering because your gender disorder hasn't been treated, does that give you the right to slam people who are happy with the way they are and have partners that would die for them? Hell no.

Thanks guys for your favorable responses, maybe someday Jeannie will learn that there is more to a person than what he or she types on the screen.

[darkeyes]

Your inbox is full Twyla hun..:)

[Long Duck Dong]

students ran fake prom ? (http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2010/04/05/the-meanest-town-in-america-fake-prom-for-lesbian-student/)
I have posted the comment that was shared with me, the comment by begleg10

while I do not agree with the tone of begleg10s comment..... it merely backs up what I said in another thread..... about the other students and their rights as well and I got shot to pieces for thinking about the rights of everybody to attend a prom, not just constance..... now if what begleg10 is saying is actually the truth...... then it was the students that arranged everything....not the school board, not the parents, but the students..... so they could have their * prom *

THIS is why I seek the truth and do not make assumptions......

this is the comment by begleg10

begleg10 | Monday April 5, 2010 03:19 pm 8

**Open Minded Readers Only**
I am a senior at IAHS, and I’ve known Constance for the last 6 years. Please hear our side of the story before you decide on our fate.
The party we had in Evergreen (the county neighborhood I live in) is 30 mins away from the school. we rented out the community center, hired vendors, decorated, and our parents ran the security/chaperone staff- but it wasn’t prom. Prom was at the country club where constance and 7 other students were. The reason the senior class boycotted the actual prom was not because we hate gays. We wanted a drama-free gathering to celebrate 3 great years and 1 lousy one together, and we wanted to lay low. We also wanted to do it without the main cause of the lousy. What people are failing to realize is that much of the fault of this whole stink lies with Constance, not her mistreatment by the school district, but her crazy-reckless need for attention. It sounds mean and horrible and like we planned it all specifically to embarrass Constance, but we didn’t. We let her have her prom with her girlfriend and her tuxedo and we went to party it up in the “boondocks” not because we wanted her rights violated, but so we could salvage what has turned into a total fiasco. As a whole we didn’t support her decision to throw the district under the bus, or her insinuations that we’re all just a bunch ‘a hicks driving around in beater pick up trucks spitting tobacco and burning crosses. IAHS is one of the top schools in the state and I’m proud of that, and I’m proud that we took a stand and just said you know what? forget it, we have just as much right as you do to have a party for ourselves. So we did, and now we’re getting flack because poor Connie’s ego got a bit of bruising. She’s playing the lesbian card to prove she ALWAYS gets what she wants. This time, we didn’t just let her.
Take it as you will, because I’m sure it sounds like we faked her out, but understand this- the decision NOT to attend prom had nothing to do with the school or with Constance’s sexual preferences; it had everything to do with proving we weren’t going to let her and the ACLU steamroll us into doing what Constance wanted. We flexed the muscle of the majority and we’ll suffer the consequences.



ok again, I do not support the tone of the remarks by begleg10..... but nor do I support the headhunting that is going on either.... the headhunting is making the lgbt look bad....

[darkeyes]

..an witch huntin is less than edifyin as well... hav been subject of a witch hunt... an its not nice... so suggest ne who r doin or thinkin a doin it..they bak off... lgbt peeps in droves hav been the subject a witch hunts.. an therfore.. those who r lgbt think on that fore they start...

[TwylaTwobits]

Interesting to see a few different sides from some comments on the following blog:

http://nmisscommentor.com/2010/04/06/some-photos-from-the-secret-prom-at-itawamba-agricultural-high-school/comment-page-1/#comment-18424

a friend of the law
April 6th, 2010 at 8:15 pm
How many students are there at IAHS who are age eligible to go to a prom? 20? 30? Does not appear to be very many students at this alleged “secret” prom.

I would venture a guess that more students than the alleged 7 attended the CC prom (how would Constance know how many attended, she wasn’t even there for the first hour and a half). And some attended this alternative private gathering (and perhaps other such gatherings). And some attended none, staying home or engaging in some other activity (as apparently did Constance’s girlfriend).

(Hell, when I was in high school, we had yard parties — informal, spur of moment, raucus gatherings — that easily would have over 250 students in attendance and would put that paltry little gathering to shame. And there would often be several private (meaning non-school sponsored, not exclusive) parties after school sponsored dances, some at the homes of students chaperoned by parents, and others at unchaperoned venues. The times, they are a changin’. )


milo_went
April 6th, 2010 at 11:53 pm
According to the MS Dept of Ed, ( http://orsap.mde.k12.ms.us/MAARS/maarsMS_TestResultsProcessor.jsp?userSessionId=76&DistrictId=1934&TestPanel=1 ), for the 08-09 school year, there were 246 seniors and 237 juniors at Itawamba. Every facebook mention of the prom by students is about the Evergreen prom, no students comment on the “official” prom (other than allusions to ditching Constance).

a friend of the law
April 7th, 2010 at 1:32 am
Well, based upon the photos of the “secret” prom, there couldn’t have been more than 20-30 students in attendance —most of the pics are of the same students, over and over. And even if we throw in the alleged 7 students who attended the CC prom plus Constance and her date, that totals about 39.

Thus, assuming these stats are accurate, then less than 50 students out of approx. 483 attended these two events. That is about 10% of the total juniors and seniors. 90% did not participate, including Constance’s girlfriend. Does not appear that prom is a real popular event at IAHS.

There seems to be a lot of gross negative generalizations being made about an entire high school student body over the alleged actions of a relative few who attended a separate private party (the 20-30 in the gotcha pics who attended the other party, assuming they were all motivated by bigotry).

The treatment of Constance by the school district and some of these students at IAHS was clearly wrong. But, so are the gross generalizations being made about an entire student body and community by many here in the comments.

[Long Duck Dong]

now the issue I have, is the other students at their private party.... the so called * real prom *......... based on what I have read, they have broken no laws... done nothing illegal other than have a private party......

so here is the dilemma..... are the other students allowed to have a private party or not..... ???
its a simple question.....

if the answer is yes.... then to my understanding, they are free to invite whom they see fit.... and that is the same basis as a 21th party.... etc etc....

if the answer is no... then does that make all other private venue parties, wrong, if we exclude anybody for whatever reason..... is there a legal presidence on such actions.....

what I am trying to work out is the legal premise to private venue functions and please don't bring in the * constance / prom * stuff.... as there could have been any number of parties around the us that night that constance also did not know about or attend..... and what I am seeking is what the us law states about private parties......

I know the nz law about private venue parties and the rights of entry.... but I am not sure on the us legal ruling on private party venues......
does anybody know where I can find the legal info on this.....

I have read that the students broke no laws or legal rules with a private party.... but what laws do apply to private venue parties....

[MarieDelta]

Still sounds like:

1. They( the students) are upset about Constance standing up for her own rights. Reminds me of the students who spit on the black kids when the government first integrated the schools.

2. They don’t sound less prejudiced by these remarks, they sound MORE prejudiced.

3. The drama here wasn’t caused by Constance, in any regard, and I find it appalling that she is receiving the "blame" for it. The School Board is the culprit, and they are spinning it to make it sound as though she caused it by standing up for herself. That she is the person to blame for "ruining everything."

4. The parents in this community have a lot to answer for, they have raised children who believe this type of behavior is acceptable.


Like I said before, this town was never one community as far as its LGBT students were concerned.

"You can be one of us, as long as you are like us. Oh, and by the way, if you stand up for your rights, expect us to treat you like a pariah." Message received, loud and clear.


Its more about standing up for what should be ours, equality.

Maybe the students did put on their own party, doesn’t matter. They were taught by the adults in this community that Constance was to blame for the drama. She was not.


What is good enough? Equality, nothing less.

Would it have been better for Constance to sue the school after the prom had occurred?

Was Constance supposed to lie back and take the injustice? Is she supposed to shut up now?

When do we stop leting other people control our lives and take responsibility for our own decisions?

It is our responsibility to stand up for our rights, no one else's. If we dont stand up, we cant complain later that we dont have these rights.

The preliminary judgement was not the end of the lawsuit. The injunction was just to prevent the school board from doing something illegal.

[TwylaTwobits]

hmmm I know we have a couple lawyers on this site who might be more clear. My understanding is that you are fine to have a private party including a guest list and require invitations if you so desire for admittance. You would have the right to have a security detail make sure no one who was not on the list was able to crash the party. You would not have the right to circumvent things like alcohol age limits. I know it's a recent thing here, used to be parents could serve alcohol to teens at home to keep them from going out and getting drunk elsewhere. Now it's illegal for them to do that no matter the privacy of their own home. The fourth amendment guarantees against unreasonable searches and seizures and pretty much says cops have to have a warrant to come into your home (loophole you could give them permission to search and what is found is admissable) Not much is really laid out there, as I said the lawyers here might be able to give a more clear cut answer.

[MarieDelta]

hmmm I know we have a couple lawyers on this site who might be more clear. My understanding is that you are fine to have a private party including a guest list and require invitations if you so desire for admittance. You would have the right to have a security detail make sure no one who was not on the list was able to crash the party. You would not have the right to circumvent things like alcohol age limits. I know it's a recent thing here, used to be parents could serve alcohol to teens at home to keep them from going out and getting drunk elsewhere. Now it's illegal for them to do that no matter the privacy of their own home. The fourth amendment guarantees against unreasonable searches and seizures and pretty much says cops have to have a warrant to come into your home (loophole you could give them permission to search and what is found is admissable) Not much is really laid out there, as I said the lawyers here might be able to give a more clear cut answer.

There is a caveat to the "unreasonable search and siezure." IF the law enforcement officer has a reasonable belief that somone is in the act of commiting of a crime, then they have free reign to search for proof.

As far as private gatherings, we have the right of free assemblage.

But that is just a side issue. It doesnt mater whether they stayed home or went to the moon. Fact is they acted like a bunch of spoiled children.

[Long Duck Dong]

Still sounds like:

1. They( the students) are upset about Constance standing up for her own rights. Reminds me of the students who spit on the black kids when the government first integrated the schools.

2. They don’t sound less prejudiced by these remarks, they sound MORE prejudiced.

3. The drama here wasn’t caused by Constance, in any regard, and I find it appalling that she is receiving the "blame" for it. The School Board is the culprit, and they are spinning it to make it sound as though she caused it by standing up for herself. That she is the person to blame for "ruining everything."

4. The parents in this community have a lot to answer for, they have raised children who believe this type of behavior is acceptable.


Like I said before, this town was never one community as far as its LGBT students were concerned.

"You can be one of us, as long as you are like us. Oh, and by the way, if you stand up for your rights, expect us to treat you like a pariah." Message received, loud and clear.


Its more about standing up for what should be ours, equality.

Maybe the students did put on their own party, doesn’t matter. They were taught by the adults in this community that Constance was to blame for the drama. She was not.


What is good enough? Equality, nothing less.

Would it have been better for Constance to sue the school after the prom had occurred?

Was Constance supposed to lie back and take the injustice? Is she supposed to shut up now?

When do we stop leting other people control our lives and take responsibility for our own decisions?

It is our responsibility to stand up for our rights, no one else's. If we dont stand up, we cant complain later that we dont have these rights.

The preliminary judgement was not the end of the lawsuit. The injunction was just to prevent the school board from doing something illegal.

yes, the students would be highly pissed off and looking for somebody to blame...... in the same way that a lot of us are highly pissed off over the bs that is going on with the prom issue.....
but this is the thing.... its gone from a fight for equal rights into a huge slinging match with threats and abuse all over the net

is this how we want things to happen..... is this how we want to achieve equal rights....??? by using the media and other means to stir up animosity....
there are now hate sites appearing .... hate mail and death threats being sent to people

now the students can not have a private party without becoming villains.... cos we read into their actions what we want to see,.... to justify our opinions


what is it going to take before we realise that we may have won a victory.... but now we have started a war that is raging out of control.... out of anybodies control...and that could come back to burn us in the future....
how many possible lgbt supporters have stepped back rather than get involved in the ensuing hatred that is flooding out over the net....
how many more anti lgbt opponents have been given more reason to take out their biased on innocent lgbt.....

when the fight was won in the court..... it should have stopped... but no..... and now its escalating into a internet hate war..... and into real life......
its only a matter of time before the first real victim is hurt or buried.....

its a bit like saying we are fighting wars in the name of peace......

its time we let the issue with constance go and settle for the victories we have..... before it turns into a real life beating or death..... unless of course, thats what is wanted so we have a bigger issue to cry about......

laying the blame for every issue now, is not proving anything,.... its only fueling the flames..... we need to go win the next victory that needs to be won.... we need to look out for the next constance or juin that needs their story told.......

we need to stop fueling the hatred war that have exploded..... cos its a war that nobody can win

[darkeyes]

Ur wrong Duckie..ooo so wrong.. we have won a battle of principle, but its been a messy and nasty battle which has left many casualties and many questions to be answered.. its a pyrrhic vistory in that Constance won but won at such cost, that we have to learn from it to avoid a repeat.. such victories leave a nasty taste in the mouth and this one cartainly has.. yet it had to be fought for a failure to do so was a negation of the obligation to the continued progress on the march to equality for all.. what happens now remains to be seen. It wont be the last of the matter of that I am sure.. those involved on both sides will take stock and see what can be done to avoid a repeat of the whole mess. It is up the LGBT movement, and anyone who cares about civil liberties in the US to make sure we learn the lessons a bloody sight better than those who have naught but comtempt for our kind.

There are always casualties in war Duckie.. this wasn't a war but one minor battle.. there are many more and of much greater importance yet to come and be won..

[*jeannie*]

I find it ludicrous that Jeannie feels she can proclaim LDD as anti-LGBT and Twyla as a "desperate woman" who'd do anything to get a man but let anyone disagree with Jeannie's tactics and she cries foul.

i merely stated facts. it is obvious to anyone who has sense and isn't blinding themselves by giving Long Duck DOng the benefit of the doubt. the benefit of the doubt is what makes it possible for scam artist to scam people.

*


Jeannie, you are being petty, and your words and tone are spiteful. And rather than direct them at LDD, you direct them at Twyla. You should be ashamed of yourself. And no, I don't give a damn why you think behaving this way is justified.

for one thing, she is supporting an anti-equal rights/anti-GLBT lying bigot.

for another thing, someone has to try to open her eyes to what Long Duck Dong really is. she is going to get hurt bad enough as it is when she finally opens her eyes and finds out the truth about him.

*


I have posted the comment that was shared with me, the comment by begleg10

and begleg10 is who? why did begleg10 share that comment with you? it seems more like you made up that comment to try to support your anti-equal rights agenda.

and supplying a link to begleg10's posted comment only proves someone made up that username and that post. it cannot prove that begleg10 is really a student at IAHS.

*


He's not lying to me but you are lying to yourself.

oh, he is.


Take a look at your profile. Seeking to be with a sadist, someone who will dominate you. You sure the fuck aren't submissive.

yes, i am. submissive does not mean being scared to point out the truth. duh.


You try to dominate every thread.

no, i don't. pointing out the truth is not trying to dominate. duh.


Now really get off your high horse and stop acting like you are the be all end all.

you need to take off the blindfold and see the real Long Duck Dong. it's for your own good. but, if you want to be even more hurt by him than you are already going to be then keep giving him the benefit of the doubt.


I've had someone tell me that you might be suffering because your gender disorder hasn't been treated, does that give you the right to slam people who are happy with the way they are and have partners that would die for them? Hell no.

whoever told you that was mistaken.


Thanks guys for your favorable responses, maybe someday Jeannie will learn that there is more to a person than what he or she types on the screen.

maybe you will learn the truth about Long Duck Dong someday. I do hope so.

*

maybe i am going about it the wrong way as far as twyla is concerned but i simply cannot cower in a corner and let her continue to get more deeply involved with drek like Long Duck Dong. she needs to see the real Long Duck Dong.

*

[csrakate]

i merely stated facts. it is obvious to anyone who has sense and isn't blinding themselves by giving Long Duck DOng the benefit of the doubt. the benefit of the doubt is what makes it possible for scam artist to scam people.

Oh...I have plenty of sense, Jeannie...sense enough to find it odd that you have only been on this site since March yet you claim to know everything about another one of this site's long time members. I have sense enough to know that you seem to have issues with women and their ability to think for themselves since you seem to think that Twyla can't think for herself, or myself, for that matter, since you seem to think I have been blinded by him as well. I have sense enough to find your proclamations about LDD's intentions for the rights of the LGBT to be based on some paranoid delusion of some sort of conspiracy on his part. I have sense enough to know that if anyone dares not believe what you say that you feel they are blinded and misguided and therefore, stupid.

Get real, Jeannie....you are damaging your own arguments...and while you have the right to state your opinion, I still contend it is wrong of you to draw conclusions about others and announce them on this site. You are maligning people, plain and simple.

[TwylaTwobits]

Posting this quickly before I head off to an appointment.

Interesting that someone else has picked up on the major fact that the private party might not have to do with Constance being a lesbian at all....

http://www.autostraddle.com/constance-mcmillen-promgate-2010-the-student-bodys-hateful-rebuttal-and-our-theory-40862/

[TwylaTwobits]

My only response to Jeannie is you sound like someone who hit on LDD and got turned down. You are giving transpeople a bad name. Thanks to people like Marie and MelissaMaven and Transcendmental we have learned a lot and most of us here don't see a man wanting to be a woman or a woman wanting to be a man. We see a person. So either put up or shut up as the case may be. You claim he's lying, prove it. You claim he's not what I think? Prove it. You claim a lot of things now put it on the table or take your petty jealousies and go play elsewhere.

[richarddennis]

Obviously, education is the right direction for this young lady.

Time will tell, but without education, her options are much less.

Let's hope she uses that scholarship Ellen has presented her and make something of herself!

[MarieDelta]

Great article from my online friend Toni D'orsay regarding the leter from Lindsay Begely.

Full article here (http://www.dyssonance.com/)



Dear Sweet Lindsay Begley:

Horseshit, darling.

The reason Constance got that attention was because of you and your friends being fuckwits about the whole thing.

If you’d actually wanted to avoid drama, you’d have all “gone to the Prom”, instead of struggling to get your stories straight (you say boycott, others say birthday party) and making up lies to avoid being seen for what you really are:

A bunch of cruel children who are the tools of your parents.

I will agree with something you say. It isn’t *your* fault. You are merely the the maggots that live in the shit, waiting to grow up and becomes flies yourselves, while the shit still stinks no matter how much toilet water you throw on it.

You are getting flack because instead of acting like somewhat mature seniors about to go out into the world and go to college or get married or find a job you acted like a bunch of hicks “driving around in beater pick up trucks spitting tobacco and burning crosses.”

If you hadn’t, you wouldn’t be getting the flack that even you seem to feel is richly deserved.

Do yourself a favor, Lindsay. Avoid College. Unless you go to something like Liberty University. All the good schools — the ones that actually, you know, might really give you a chance at learning something since you are coming out of a school that is, by most measures, incompetent in comparison to schools across the country (because, lest you forget, the best schools there are not quite up to the worst schools in other states) — will be bad experiences for you.

Because the thing you did will follow you. It will not go away for years.

And one day you will be sitting in a class and you will realize that you did a terrible, horrible thing, and I’m sorry, but you deserve what you are going to feel that day, that moment.

Meanwhile, Constance has a scholarship. She’s got a chance to get out of the hell that you helped make.

Out of the shit pile you’ll be stuck in for a long, long time.

Who was it that ruined everything?

You did, Lindsay. You did.

[Luffly1]

Great article from my online friend Toni D'orsay regarding the leter from Lindsay Begely.

Full article here (http://www.dyssonance.com/)

While I find myself agreeing with much of the point of what your friend has to say, I hardly think it was appropriate to speak about this student being immature and then call her a maggot on a piece of shit. Since when do grown adults think it is ok to address a teenager in this fashion?:(

[*jeannie*]

Oh...I have plenty of sense, Jeannie...sense enough to find it odd that you have only been on this site since March yet you claim to know everything about another one of this site's long time members.

long time member or not, duplicity is obvious to anyone who knows what duplicity is. check a dictionary sometimes.


I have sense enough to know that you seem to have issues with women and their ability to think for themselves since you seem to think that Twyla can't think for herself, or myself, for that matter, since you seem to think I have been blinded by him as well.

i don't have an issue with women. you want to make it out to be that tho.

he is duplicitous and if you and twyla and a few others cannot see that then you are either ignorant of what duplicity is or you are choosing to turn a blind eye to it.


I have sense enough to find your proclamations about LDD's intentions for the rights of the LGBT to be based on some paranoid delusion of some sort of conspiracy on his part.

it's not some paranoid delusion. i'm sorry you lack the knowledge of what duplicity is and/or you are turning a blind eye to it. check a dictionary and use your good eye (if you have one).


I have sense enough to know that if anyone dares not believe what you say that you feel they are blinded and misguided and therefore, stupid.

anyone can believe whatever they wish. i never said they could not. you can make me out to be any way you like but you cannot change the truth with lies.


Get real, Jeannie....you are damaging your own arguments...and while you have the right to state your opinion, I still contend it is wrong of you to draw conclusions about others and announce them on this site.

i may be damaging any chance of being friends with some people here (those particular ones not worth knowing anyway) but not my statements about Long Duck Dong being duplicitous as that is a fact. he is duplicitous. he is pretending to be one of us while working against us.

it's not my fault you and some others here do not know what duplicity is and/or choose to turn a blind eye to it.


You are maligning people, plain and simple.

only those not worth knowing, so no loss.

*


My only response to Jeannie is you sound like someone who hit on LDD and got turned down.

ask him yourself and you will find out that i have never tried to hit on him. what a pathetic attempt on your part.


You are giving transpeople a bad name.

you wish. the actions of one do not define the others.


Thanks to people like Marie and MelissaMaven and Transcendmental we have learned a lot and most of us here don't see a man wanting to be a woman or a woman wanting to be a man.

it's never a "man wanting to be a woman" or a "woman wanting to be a man"... it is always either a "man born with a female body wanting to have a male body" or a "woman born with a male body wanting to have a female body". you apparently never learned anything from them.


So either put up or shut up as the case may be.

i gave the definition of duplicity. here it is again... "deceitfulness in speech or conduct; speaking or acting in two different ways concerning the same matter with intent to deceive."

here is the link... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/duplicity

now, anyone with sense can see from reading Long Duck Dong's posts that he IS "speaking in two different ways concerning the same matter" and his intent can only be to deceive.

if you and some others here do not want to believe the definition of the word duplicity or do not want to believe his posts are duplicitous when they so obviously are then that is your choice. you chose the way of fools. good luck with that.


You claim he's lying, prove it. You claim he's not what I think? Prove it. You claim a lot of things now put it on the table or take your petty jealousies and go play elsewhere.

it is obvious to anyone who is not turning a blind eye to it.

your inability to see reality does not prove me wrong in the least.

no one is jealous of you or anyone else. get a clue.

*


Hate filled, spiteful, and petty. I cannot tell you how ugly you are appearing to be.

i know it and i am sorry for my behavior. the problem is i just cannot understand how twyla and some others cannot see the truth about Long Duck Dong. it is all too obvious. they are thus supporting someone who is against us. they are supporting their own enemy.

*

[TwylaTwobits]

and once again not a bit of proof was offered........I asked for proof provide it or shut up.

And as for asking him?? By your own words he's lying to me so why would I ask him?

You have absolutely no clue about anything. You have two names Jeannie and Jeannie TG, why did you stop posting on the other one? Two names strikes me as two faced...hmmm maybe you are the one who is duplicitous not LDD.

So tell me Jeannie, tell me all the secrets you claim you know. Tell me how he is lying to me and how he is gonna hurt me. Tell me why you are on a site slamming people as antiLGBT when you obviously don't know a thing.

And you still haven't answered why you feel I am desperate to have someone that I would go with someone you deem to be unworthy.

Judging by the amount of messages I get looking for a hookup I'd say I'm not desperate at all but some on this site are and you are one of them. Only you express your desperation for attention by posting negative comments about people who don't agree with your twisted way of thinking.

So again, Proof or zip it. And if you choose to zip it, I want an apology made in public the same way you made your statements. And finally, I posted pics...they have my face in them. They have a full body shot in one of them, why are your pics only of your legs? Is that the only part of you that you feel confident enough to show?

I think someone was exactly right when they said you were suffering for not being treated for your condition. It's more than that though isn't it? You are suffering because you have to hide who and what you are. I would feel pity for you but you appear to be a person who doesn't know pity and it would be lost on you. That's not a slam against a trans or an LGBT person that's calling a fucked up person a fucked up person. Now get the fuck off my case and provide your so called proof or apologize.

And as for supporting an enemy roflmao. Idiot, I'm straight. I'm here because of Long Duck Dong. If he were antiLGBT by definition he'd be straight too and we'd only have the issues facing a heterosexual couple not the myriad of things that pop up when one involved is bi. Learn about your opposition before you make such stupid statements....that really just falls well short of the mark.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

whatever fights he has been in, he has definitely been on the side against GLBT people having equal rights.as for you, i am sorry you can't see thru your desperation to have someone to see the truth about him.
you are only hurting yourself by willingly wearing the blindfold of "benefit of the doubt". it is sad but you will be hurt one day when you finally realize the truth of what i'm saying about him.

When did this turn into something totally stupid? And since when did this turn into some kind of personal vendetta against Twyla and Duck?? Get off your high horse end soap box and get back to the thread at hand. If you wanna duke it out with Either of them, then don the gloves and take it the fuck outside! This thread isnt about any of US, and its rapidly becoming a dear horse subject. I agree with Voltie, and I hope she moves on to become Quite a success and comes back to her lil hick-minded town to show them that local lesbian girl makes good.
As far as any personal attacks on anyone else, take it Off The Board like an adult and hack it out elsewhere. Grow up for Spirits sakes. :disgust::disgust:

[shybipinay]

and once again not a bit of proof was offered........I asked for proof provide it or shut up.

So again, Proof or zip it.

Now get the fuck off my case and provide your so called proof or apologize.

jeannie doesn't need to provide her proof. LDD has provided it for her in every one of his posts on this topic. Just read them. They are very telling of the kind of person he is. We can see from his posts he is duplicitous, why can't you?

[TwylaTwobits]

jeannie doesn't need to provide her proof. LDD has provided it for her in every one of his posts on this topic. Just read them. They are very telling of the kind of person he is. We can see from his posts he is duplicitous, why can't you?

Shy, he posted he is for EQUAL RIGHTS. That's what I see in his posts. That doesn't make him duplicitious or anything else. And yes by god she needs to provide proof when trying to say that the man I love is a liar and is lying to me and will hurt me. I also see the fact that given Marie posted a response to the letter from Beg10 it's obvious that it's been proven it's a student at the high school that blows one of her ridiculous accusations out of the water. So maybe you aren't reading the same thread I'm reading. LDD and I don't agree 100% of the time that's what makes our relationship work, between the two of us we talk about every side of a situation. What I take great issue with is the fact I said the same exact thing as he did and he gets slammed I get politely responded to. He's been here a long time and he's always posted for equal rights for all and he's fought for equal rights for all to marry in his home country. But apparently remembering there are other people on this planet other than people who are bi, gay, les or trans is not allowed.

[TwylaTwobits]

Bret he's not against LGBT rights he wants rights for everyone. Is that so hard a concept for anyone to understand? Apparently it is.

ROFLMAO so now I'm only agreeing with him cause he's good in bed? No, sorry, I have a brain and I use it. You'll find in most of my posts regarding this prom in all the various threads, I have questioned, I have warned about consequences because I know small towns, I live in one. And lo and behold it happened. I warned that I was concerned that the issue turned people who didn't care into "you ruined my senior year camp". I was proven right, funny huh? Was it sucky and underhanded, yeah. Was it illegal, no. Was it a prom that Constance attended, yes. And from the various blogs posted she arrived a hour and half late how would she know if more of her classmates were there ready to stand with her when she didn't bother to show up but was "fashionably late", they may have been there and said if she wasn't gonna show why not go join their friends at the private party? By Constance's own admission, she had fun, the other students had fun. And that's what I mean that the terms of the lawsuit were satisfied she had a prom.

[MarieDelta]

For what its worth

I dont agree with LDD a lot (maybe you noticed.)

I dont think he is against LGBTQ rights. I dont agree with his methods, but I think we all know that.

I do see (and I dont mean this to be harsh) that his style of communication confuses people at times.

Jeannie, give it a rest hon. You said your peice, let it go.

[Billys_gurl]

Well I am a newer member, just last fall. It seems to me that alot of the newer people WANT to run the long standing members off. The question would be why? Do they want to turn the site into a militant site that you can only be a part of if you think and do EXACTLY what they want you too? I, for one, enjoy thinking for myself and do NOT want to be indoctrinated into anything that has that much hate and poison in it. The arguments have been raised that ALL the heteros are against GLBT no matter what. They hate us, want to push us into caves, and all of that. If the roles were reversed, YOU would be doing the same to them. Its all in what you are saying to and about LDD and Twyla. You HATE the heteros and anyone you perceive as being one of them. So why SHOULD the heteros be willing to listen to us or give a shit what we want to say when some people for OUR side treat them as badly as they claim we are treated?

[Long Duck Dong]

can people stop talking about me being for lgbt rights.... I am for equal rights for all, not just the lgbt.....

at least if people are gonna bash me, they could do the decent thing and actually pay attention to what I stand for..... equal rights for every man and woman, regardless of race, culture, belief or sexuality...... cos by hell we all deserve those rights, not just the lgbt .........

two,... I know I am not in the us.... but it doesn't mean that I do not know anything.... I live in a country with anti discrimination / pro lgbt rights..... so i understand what its like to have the rights.... and also I also know what its like to fight for them cos we had to fight for them over the last 20 years.....
so while my advice and remarks may be disagreeable to some, you can not argue the outcome in nz, with things like the civil union bill.....

three, while people are sitting in this site slamming me, they are not out there, winning victories for the lgbt ( tho I would perfer equal rights ).... so ask yourself.... whats more important to you... slamming people in a forum or having rights ??????

four, I view the us bill of rights and amendments as a dual edged sword..... and I can not help but notice the way that people use parts of it to their own advantage... then bitch about how others use the same rights to their advantage......
you can not have it both ways..... that is why I talk about some issues the way I do..... ie the private party / prom that the students had.....
it was their right to hold a party / prom.... and there is so much anger over how the students used that right to hold a private party.... yet, no anger over constance and the aclu turning down proms and offers of proms and money for proms.....

if others can have double standards, why am I not allowed to...?????

btw I am refering to the fact that while I am bisexual, I do not support lgbt rights, instead, I am human, so I support the rights of every human equally.... I perfer to make a stance for everybody equally, not show favoritism to a few and ignore the rights of others.....
now before anybody gets confused.... human rights in my eyes, are food, drink, medicine, shelter, money, marriage and general wellbeing, regardless of age, race, gender, culture, belief and sexuality.....
ie what good it is to have lgbt marriage, if you lack the opportunities to support your partner financially and vice verse

[darkeyes]

can people stop talking about me being for lgbt rights.... I am for equal rights for all, not just the lgbt.....

at least if people are gonna bash me, they could do the decent thing and actually pay attention to what I stand for..... equal rights for every man and woman, regardless of race, culture, belief or sexuality...... cos by hell we all deserve those rights, not just the lgbt .........

two,... I know I am not in the us.... but it doesn't mean that I do not know anything.... I live in a country with anti discrimination / pro lgbt rights..... so i understand what its like to have the rights.... and also I also know what its like to fight for them cos we had to fight for them over the last 20 years.....
so while my advice and remarks may be disagreeable to some, you can not argue the outcome in nz, with things like the civil union bill.....

three, while people are sitting in this site slamming me, they are not out there, winning victories for the lgbt ( tho I would perfer equal rights ).... so ask yourself.... whats more important to you... slamming people in a forum or having rights ??????

four, I view the us bill of rights and amendments as a dual edged sword..... and I can not help but notice the way that people use parts of it to their own advantage... then bitch about how others use the same rights to their advantage......
you can not have it both ways..... that is why I talk about some issues the way I do..... ie the private party / prom that the students had.....
it was their right to hold a party / prom.... and there is so much anger over how the students used that right to hold a private party.... yet, no anger over constance and the aclu turning down proms and offers of proms and money for proms.....

if others can have double standards, why am I not allowed to...?????

btw I am refering to the fact that while I am bisexual, I do not support lgbt rights, instead, I am human, so I support the rights of every human equally.... I perfer to make a stance for everybody equally, not show favoritism to a few and ignore the rights of others.....
now before anybody gets confused.... human rights in my eyes, are food, drink, medicine, shelter, money, marriage and general wellbeing, regardless of age, race, gender, culture, belief and sexuality.....
ie what good it is to have lgbt marriage, if you lack the opportunities to support your partner financially and vice verse

Sometimes I wonder bout your thought processes, Duckie.. if you support human rights for all.. you're as pro lgbt rights as ne 1 else.. cos in me own life.. I look on rights just as you..that they should be taken as a whole for all human beings and that they cannot be taken in isolation but considered as a whole.. yet if we did not break down rights and argue specific issues we would never progress any rights whatsoever, and some people would have more rights than others.. just as is the case now.. but less so than a century ago.. if you believe in equal rights and equal opportunities for all, as you say you do..then by definition you believe that must apply to any who are Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual or Transgendered.. as much as it does for those who are none of these things..

[Long Duck Dong]

Ur wrong Duckie..ooo so wrong.. we have won a battle of principle, but its been a messy and nasty battle which has left many casualties and many questions to be answered.. its a pyrrhic vistory in that Constance won but won at such cost, that we have to learn from it to avoid a repeat.. such victories leave a nasty taste in the mouth and this one cartainly has.. yet it had to be fought for a failure to do so was a negation of the obligation to the continued progress on the march to equality for all.. what happens now remains to be seen. It wont be the last of the matter of that I am sure.. those involved on both sides will take stock and see what can be done to avoid a repeat of the whole mess. It is up the LGBT movement, and anyone who cares about civil liberties in the US to make sure we learn the lessons a bloody sight better than those who have naught but comtempt for our kind.

There are always casualties in war Duckie.. this wasn't a war but one minor battle.. there are many more and of much greater importance yet to come and be won..

wrong ??? I am not sure what you are refering to......

I was hoping that we would not see the hatred and bigotry that we are seeing in sites like face book etc..... to me they are not needed, and can do no good to anybody, but fuel a personal biased......

the good points I can see... is the judges ruling... again, cos its not just a lgbt win, but a equal rules for all, win..... but yes it also includes the lgbt.... I will not ignore that aspect or down grade it.....

the ruling that NO student can be discriminated against by partner or dress sense...... thats a WIN....

the ruling on the prom is a open ended issue..... and personally, I am not saying SFA cos without the ruling by a judge.... its open to personal interpretation

outside of that, the flaming, hate speech, accusations, sites of face book etc..... thats what I do not support or agree with...... or condone..... that to me serves no purpose or advancement of equal rights or lgbt rights.....
what it does show is how narrow minded and bigoted people can be.... yet, its the thing that most people fight against..... narrow mindedness and bigotry......

but like you darkie sweetheart and marie and twyla and a number of others, I too, hope like hell that both sides will learn from this and realise that while flaming the fuck out of each other in websites is easy to do..... that we need to win the battles where it counts..... the minor battles in judges rulings and the major battles in the signing of laws into power that give everybody, ( including the lgbt ) the same rights and perferably without removing any rights.....


on a side note, when I was at school as a teen ( in the 80's ) we had computers... but not the net.... and I have seen the growing trend of cyber bullying and abuse..... and being hearing about the victims of such shit..... its made me aware that I am a *dinosaur * tho I am not yet 40.....
in the old days, we settled things with a fist fight and a bottle of beer and a handshake..... nowadays, you can lose ya identity, credit rating, etc etc, thru a computer......
nowadays I still fear no man and while my fists are scarred and aching.... I realise that I can't fight against a foe that can destroy my life electronically and I may never know who they are......

Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no man, except some hacker with a computer and a evil intent :tong:

[Long Duck Dong]

Sometimes I wonder bout your thought processes, Duckie.. if you support human rights for all.. you're as pro lgbt rights as ne 1 else.. cos in me own life.. I look on rights just as you..that they should be taken as a whole for all human beings and that they cannot be taken in isolation but considered as a whole.. yet if we did not break down rights and argue specific issues we would never progress any rights whatsoever, and some people would have more rights than others.. just as is the case now.. but less so than a century ago.. if you believe in equal rights and equal opportunities for all, as you say you do..then by definition you believe that must apply to any who are Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual or Transgendered.. as much as it does for those who are none of these things..

use the nz civil rights law as a guideline.....

its a law that granted a state of marriage to any nz'er regardless of sexuality, gender etc etc......

now the heteros had marriage rights already.... but under nz law and rulings it was a christian state of marriage..... and there were a number of people that wanted to be in a union but their dislike of christians and christianity meant that they would not do anything associated with the christian way.....

the civil union, removes that, you can be joined in any type of ceremony, provided the marriage celebrant agrees to conduct the union proceedings

thats how I saw it ( even tho I didn't support a lot of peoples ideas )

a non religious, state of union, that any person, lgbt, hetero, nz'er or non nz'er.... even a alien ( if they fit the legal criteria ) could have

so i never had the stance that omg its a lgbt win....I was of the stance that it removes all the restrictions and limitations imposed on people in nz, and brought them to the same level with people that perfered the marriage option over the civil union......
btw they are the same fucking thing lol.... one is called marriage, the other is called a civil union

the second part of the law, was the most important part and the part that most people never knew about... it was passed a few months later
the Relationships (Statutory References) Bill

As a result of these bills, all couples in New Zealand, whether married, in a civil union, or in a de facto partnership, enjoy the same rights and undertake the same obligations. These rights extend to immigration, next-of-kin status, social welfare, matrimonial property and other areas

originally, if you were lgbt and in a relationship, you could not be treated as a couple therefore you could recieve a higher rate of welfare benefit...as opposed to a hetero couple.....
it was something like $270 per person per week for lgbt couples ( $540 a week ) but a hetero couple could only get the married rate benefit ( $312 a week between two people )....

so over here in nz, the lgbt couples were in fact better off then hetero couples in a money sense...... which shows that the lgbt were not always victims......and thats again reflected in the way I post at times.....

hence another reason for my equal rights stance.....

[Long Duck Dong]

Duck does seem to focus on his own country of NZ way too much and totally ignores laws and what it's like to be GLBT in countries that are not NZ.

could it have anything to do with the fact I live in nz.... ???? that would be in line with the us members that focus on the us .... cos...* gasp * they live there

as for ignoring the laws in other countries.... actually a few site members are helping me with the us laws as they are quite similar to nz laws in a number of respects..... and I have not seen your helpful post in regards to my questions for help on a legal aspect.... did I miss your post ????

as for ignoring what its like to be lgbt in other countries.... no I am not ignoring it..... its just a lil hard to keep track of what state of the us has what laws regarding lgbt cos you have 51 ??? states all using different laws.....
and as we have seen in this site, with the lesbian sgt thread.... a lesbian was married in one state, ruled not married in another state, yet fired according to federal ??? law cos she was a lesbian... which is not a criminal offense.... merely not within policy
of course its gonna be confusing to me.... but I could not help but notice that there were us citizens in the same thread arguing over what us laws applied to the case....

[Long Duck Dong]

and begleg10 is who? why did begleg10 share that comment with you? it seems more like you made up that comment to try to support your anti-equal rights agenda.

*

um... it was not begleg 10 that shared the comment with me..... it was somebody else as i stated... so i googled the user name of begleg10.... and found her facebook pic, and details about her attendance at the IAHS.... and noticed that other people in other sites, named the user by their real name....

thats why I posted it but with the remark that if its true, the reason for that is that they are a student at the HS, so their remarks would favour the students.....

while google is not the most reliable tool on the net.... it sure beats assuming things without any evidence to support the assumption
that is what I perfer facts over assumptions.... assumptions make people look bad...

[TwylaTwobits]

as for ignoring what its like to be lgbt in other countries.... no I am not ignoring it..... its just a lil hard to keep track of what state of the us has what laws regarding lgbt cos you have 51 ??? states all using different laws.....


Baby, technically we have 50 states and one federal district. But close enough and true enough that states have varying laws but the federal law applies to ALL states and the district. It's confusing at times for us here, easy enough to see it might be confusing for others from other countries.

[Long Duck Dong]

ok we are similar.... but instead of states, we have council districts.....
you can have separate council bylaws..... like the city council that thought it would be nice to try to ban all tobacco related products from shops and stores within that council district ( you think that prohibition in the us, would have been a warning but some people went to school to eat chalk and snort glue )...

now we have a blanket law that covers all of nz.... then you go down to the city council and district bylaws, ( you have state taxes, we have rates )

now a council can refuse a license to have a gay cruise bar open in their town... they have the right of discernment as to what businesses open in the town and if its in the best interests of the community and other businesses....
its not discrimination ( tho people will play that card ) but actually the fact that there is not enuf support in small towns in nz to make the business viable
our largest city in just over a million people..... so nz is small townville....

as for proms.... yeah we have them.... they are now called proms to match the us name, but were called formals.....
and over here, constance would have been allowed to go with her partner and dress in a tux...... but yeah.... most of the students would have just shrugged and ignored her.... as shes just another student....and either friends with people or not......

but if constance did act in a way that cost the prom ( she would have to burn down the school hall or something )... the backlash from the students would be on a level that would make rambo shit in his pants...... and hate crimes would take on a whole new meaning.....
however that would apply to any student over here.... not just constance.....

while the us is still working on equal rights.... nz is about to ring judge dredd for help cos you have people left, right and center opposing everything they can ( cos of all the rights they have )... and others that do not care about legal rights and stuff... they only care about themselves...and who pissed them off....

[MarieDelta]

ok we are similar.... but instead of states, we have council districts.....
you can have separate council bylaws..... like the city council that thought it would be nice to try to ban all tobacco related products from shops and stores within that council district ( you think that prohibition in the us, would have been a warning but some people went to school to eat chalk and snort glue )...

now we have a blanket law that covers all of nz.... then you go down to the city council and district bylaws, ( you have state taxes, we have rates )

now a council can refuse a license to have a gay cruise bar open in their town... they have the right of discernment as to what businesses open in the town and if its in the best interests of the community and other businesses....
its not discrimination ( tho people will play that card ) but actually the fact that there is not enuf support in small towns in nz to make the business viable
our largest city in just over a million people..... so nz is small townville....

as for proms.... yeah we have them.... they are now called proms to match the us name, but were called formals.....
and over here, constance would have been allowed to go with her partner and dress in a tux...... but yeah.... most of the students would have just shrugged and ignored her.... as shes just another student....and either friends with people or not......

but if constance did act in a way that cost the prom ( she would have to burn down the school hall or something )... the backlash from the students would be on a level that would make rambo shit in his pants...... and hate crimes would take on a whole new meaning.....
however that would apply to any student over here.... not just constance.....

while the us is still working on equal rights.... nz is about to ring judge dredd for help cos you have people left, right and center opposing everything they can ( cos of all the rights they have )... and others that do not care about legal rights and stuff... they only care about themselves...and who pissed them off....

In the US the city can only determine where a business can locate. It cannot determine if a business can open. Market forces determine if the business will be a success in that area.

I think for the most part people here in the US would say they are for equal rights. The issue is how do we get those rights.

Some people have a religous belief that says that gays(GLBT) are inherently evil, or mislead, or both. That somehow its a sin to be gay (GLBT). Mostly these are straight folks who seem to think this( our existence) is a choice.

Some gays have been raised in such self hatred here that they dont even want to be gay. Therefore you have the "ex-gay" movement.

In addition our cities and states are much larger, and this creates problems in terms of scope. Denver population is 2,552,195 and it isnt even one of the larger cities in the US. Chigago is 2.8 million and these dont even compare to NYC and LA.

Laws can be written at the Federal, state, county (or parish -in some areas) and city level. None of these laws may abridge any right. Which is where the federal courts come into play. Nor may they discriminate based on race, religion or physical sex. However, they may still discriminate (in some areas) on sexuality, or gender identity.

Civil Partnership is available to GLBT in some areas, however it doesnt carry with it all the recognition that Marriage does. Which is a problem when it comes to getting insurance, being at your parnters side in hospital, or other bennefits. Its the "separate but equal concept" all over again.

[TwylaTwobits]

Yeah Marie I gave him a crash course after his last post explaining about counties and city laws as well but that the Federal Law supercedes all of them. Then I got into the more tangled concept of "if a state law has a statute that is more restrictive or has tougher penalites and is not unconstitutional, then the state law would be used as long as it didn't negate federal rulings"

[*jeannie*]

And as for asking him?? By your own words he's lying to me so why would I ask him?



because you assumed i had hit on him and was turned down. you should have spoke to him about that and found out it

cannot be true before making that statement so you would not have made yourself look like a jackass by posting it.


You have absolutely no clue about anything. You have two names Jeannie and Jeannie TG,

why did you stop posting on the other one? Two names strikes me as two faced...hmmm maybe you are the one who is

duplicitous not LDD.

i decided to not have "TG" on my username anymore. since we cannot change our usernames i had to create a new

account to have a name without it on there. i have not used "jeannie_TG" since creating this account, "*jeannie*".

i would delete the "jeannie_TG" account but there is no way to do so.

get a clue.


So tell me Jeannie, tell me all the secrets you claim you know. Tell me how he is lying

to me and how he is gonna hurt me.

he is in the habit of being duplicitous here so it must be his nature to be duplicitous. you will find out about

his true nature in time and you will be sorry you ever got involved with him.


Tell me why you are on a site slamming people as antiLGBT when you obviously don't know

a thing.

you are the one who doesn't know a thing.


And you still haven't answered why you feel I am desperate to have someone that I would

go with someone you deem to be unworthy.

if you are not supporting him out of desperation to have someone then that only leaves one other possibility... you

are stupid as the day is long.


Judging by the amount of messages I get looking for a hookup I'd say I'm not desperate

at all but some on this site are and you are one of them.

getting lots of messages from horny guys does not somehow magically make YOU not desperate. duh.

i'm not desperate at all. you are just trying to use that on me hoping i will be hurt by being called desperate and

will leave you alone.


Only you express your desperation for attention by posting negative comments about

people who don't agree with your twisted way of thinking.

you express your desperation for attention by sticking to an obvious loser because you somehow believe that no one

else will truely have you.


So again, Proof or zip it.

the proof is right in front of you as to Long Duck Dong's duplicitous nature. open your eyes.


And if you choose to zip it, I want an apology made in public the same way you made your

statements.

i do not apologize for being right. he IS of a duplicitous nature and someday you will be sorry you ever got

involved with him.


And finally, I posted pics...they have my face in them. They have a full body shot in

one of them, why are your pics only of your legs? Is that the only part of you that you feel confident enough to

show?

as stated in my profile... "He/they must be discreet as i only want a few select people to know about the real me."

there are some homo-phobes i know in real life, some friends and some family. some would make great trouble for me

and a few would even go so far as to try to kill me.

as far as confidence goes, i feel completely confident about all of me.

you understand that some people need to be discrete so you acheived an epic failure on that line of attack.


I think someone was exactly right when they said you were suffering for not being

treated for your condition.

you really don't have much ability to figure things out.


It's more than that though isn't it? You are suffering because you have to hide who and

what you are. I would feel pity for you but you appear to be a person who doesn't know pity and it would be lost on

you.

you are grasping for straws. you are trying anything now to try to hurt me.


Now get the fuck off my case and provide your so called proof or apologize.

no amount of proof is sufficient to prove something to a fool.


And as for supporting an enemy roflmao.

i did not specifically mean you. that was obvious, idiot. i see your reading comprehension sucks as bad as Long

Duck Dong's does.


If he were antiLGBT by definition he'd be straight too

you have witnessed with your own eyes Long Duck Dong having sex with who? how many guys have you seen him have sex

with?

come now, you know you have never seen him have sex with any guy so, in all truth, you really do not know if he is

bisexual or lying about being bisexual.


Learn about your opposition before you make such stupid statements....that really just

falls well short of the mark.

it was your less than adequate reading comprehension that led you to misunderstand.

*
*


And since when did this turn into some kind of personal vendetta against Twyla

and Duck??

if anyone is against what is right they should be exposed. he IS against equal rights for all. your support of him

only proves you are either stupid or in with him.


Get off your high horse end soap box and get back to the thread at hand.

i have seen threads in which both you and Long Duck Dong have made posts and in those threads Long Duck Dong has

gone off-topic at great length yet you do not tell him to get back on topic. discriminate much?


As far as any personal attacks on anyone else, take it Off The Board like an

adult and hack it out elsewhere.

if you don't like it, then, like an adult, YOU go elsewhere.

*
*


Shy, he posted he is for EQUAL RIGHTS. That's what I see in his posts. That doesn't make

him duplicitious or anything else.

yes, he does post he is for equal rights but he also makes in those same posts lots of "don't fight for equal

rights" type of statements in such a way as to try to appear to not be saying "don't fight for equal rights". that

makes him duplicitous.


And yes by god she needs to provide proof when trying to say that the man I love is a

liar and is lying to me and will hurt me.

the proof that he is engaging in duplicity is in his own posts.

you are not the first nor the last to allow love to blind you to the true nature of the person loved.

i feel so sorry for you.


I also see the fact that given Marie posted a response to the letter from Beg10 it's obvious that it's been proven it's a student at the high school that blows one of her ridiculous accusations out of the water.

where, exactly, did Marie post a response to begleg10?

*
*


Bret he's not against LGBT rights he wants rights for everyone. Is that so hard a

concept for anyone to understand? Apparently it is.

we understand that Long Duck Dong is engaging in duplicity on the matter of equal rights. you do not understand that.


No, sorry, I have a brain and I use it.

having a brain does not mean it is of good quality.


Was it a prom that Constance attended, yes.

you are THAT stupid?

constance and a few of her supporters were sent to a location where the real prom was not being held. there was no prom at that location. duh.

since Long Duck Dong said constance got her prom so you are simply supporting that BS to maintain favor with him. how pathetic.


And from the various blogs posted she arrived a hour and half late how would she know if more of her classmates were there ready to stand with her when she didn't bother to show up but was "fashionably late", they may have been there and said if she wasn't gonna show why not go join their friends at the private party?

you really have no clue at all.

*
*


<removed nonsense>

you don't have a clue as to what is really going on here.

*
*


Perhaps, just perhaps, people have differing views on how best to achieve equal rights?

Hrmm? That does not mean that they are against GLBT issues or rights. There is not a single righteous path to the

goal. There are many possible paths to achieving the same goal.

different paths to acheiving a goal is one thing. however, Long Duck Dong is clearly being duplicitous. he is

clearly against GLBT people having the same equal rights of non-GLBT people.


I've said it before, and I will continue to say it until the majority gets it and starts

telling those who refuse to get it to shut up or go away. The vitriol must stop if the GLBT community is to make

any sort of progress. As long as this community continues to turn on itself, it will have no ability to do

anything constructive.

he is not a member of our community. he is pretending to be a member with the purpose of ruining our efforts for getting equal rights from within. it is obvious and if you cannot see that then you are far less intelligent than i had somehow mistaken you to be.

*
*


um... it was not begleg 10 that shared the comment with me..... it was somebody else

as i stated...

you never said in your post that the comment was made to someone else. you stated, "I have posted the comment that was shared with me, the comment by begleg10". thus, making it seem that begleg10 had made the comment to you.

*
*

[allbimyself]

he is not a member of our community. he is pretending to be a member with the purpose of ruining our efforts for getting equal rights from within. it is obvious and if you cannot see that then you are far less intelligent than i had somehow mistaken you to beYou are the one that is displaying an obvious lack of intellect, Jeannie. I do not agree with LDD's strategy but that does not mean he is not for equal rights. Your attitude is EXACTLY the same as the Bushites when they claimed that anyone that disagreed with their foreign policy was unpatriotic or anti-American. You do not get to decide by yourself. Your lack of ability to debate the merits of differing strategies without calling into question the motives of the person you are debating only serves to undermine your position. If you have proof that LDD is anti-queer then post it. Saying it's "obvious" isn't going to cut it since the majority of us that disagree with him don't see it as obvious. Those of us that disagree with him and seek to debate him in an intelligent, reasonable manner can do without your petty vindictiveness, name calling and personal attacks. If you can't debate without those tactics, your input is not appreciated as those are the tactics used by someone that has lost the debate.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

if anyone is against what is right they should be exposed. he IS against equal rights for all. your support of him only proves you are either stupid or in with him.

Grow up mister. The Troll cave is down the street to the right....
Cat

[csrakate]

You are the one that is displaying an obvious lack of intellect, Jeannie. I do not agree with LDD's strategy but that does not mean he is not for equal rights. Your attitude is EXACTLY the same as the Bushites when they claimed that anyone that disagreed with their foreign policy was unpatriotic or anti-American. You do not get to decide by yourself. Your lack of ability to debate the merits of differing strategies without calling into question the motives of the person you are debating only serves to undermine your position. If you have proof that LDD is anti-queer then post it. Saying it's "obvious" isn't going to cut it since the majority of us that disagree with him don't see it as obvious. Those of us that disagree with him and seek to debate him in an intelligent, reasonable manner can do without your petty vindictiveness, name calling and personal attacks. If you can't debate without those tactics, your input is not appreciated as those are the tactics used by someone that has lost the debate.

Very well put, Allbi. I, for one, agree with you!

[Luffly1]

Very well put, Allbi. I, for one, agree with you!

I agree with everything Allbi has said as well.

[Luffly1]

because you assumed i had hit on him and was turned down. you should have spoke to him about that and found out it

cannot be true before making that statement so you would not have made yourself look like a jackass by posting it.



*

I believe she said that you were acting as though you were someone who had been turned down by him. She was using that as a way to show similarities in your attitude and behavior. I do not remember her actually saying that this scenario had occured. And if I am right about that, which I hope she can enlighten me on my accuracy of reading comprehension, she is not the one that just looked like a jackass.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Passes Allbi the cookie plate, and pecks his handsome cheek..:} Also ladies and gentlemen, theres one easy solution to this whole mess. One simple word: CLICK.
Insults and negitivity doesnt have to be tolerated here. And I feel bad that a thread that started out good had to be so messed up that it ceases to even BE about said thread anymore.
And, is it just me, or has anyone noticed the similarities of these long drawn out responces to others that have made the same nonsensical issues in the past?

Lets close this one off and get back to the business of having fun, pleasurable times, shall we? ;):)
Cat, hitting the click button.

[by~his~side]

Ok...here's the real issue at hand.
If the thread is closed can I have the rest of the cookies off the plate?

*crunch* *crunch* *crunch*....oh my gosh! these are so good!
who made these??

~D~