I hate monogamy.

[kcatthegreat]

So I'm not very good with monogamy. I just don't get it. Most women are jealous if their man cheats on them. I personally think it would be hot to watch my husband with another woman. Even hotter if I could be involved.

And I don't understand why anyone would WANT a monogamous relationship. You're going to promise never to have sex with anyone except that one person. Why would anyone WANT to do that? I just don't understand.

But my disinterest in monogamy gets me into trouble. Why? Well, because I want to have sex with people I'm not supposed to!

Do you guys think that, on average, bisexuals are more polyamorous more than straights and gays? I've met a couple other bisexual females that think about monogamy the same way I do, but I've never a straight or gay female that has that philosophy, though there are men who think that way.

EDIT: People are misinterpreting this, so let me clarify. I have never lied to a partner or cheated behind someone's back. I said I get into trouble because I WANT to have sex with other people, not because I actually do it. I have just suggested to my husband that I would like an open relationship. Since he's not comfortable with it, I go along with the monogamy, because I love him more than anything and meaningless sex with other people is not that important to me. Also, my husband has agreed that I can have a girlfriend, just not a boyfriend. This is perfectly fine.

What frustrates me is that no one understands the way I think about sex. If I express interest in having multiple partners people think I don't love my husband or that I want to leave him or that he's not good in bed, but none of those things are true. I love him very much and he is awesome in bed. I just don't like monogamy. No one seems to get that.

[johnsmith8520]

yeah you are right. monogamy sucks.;)

[just4mefc]

yeah you are right. monogamy sucks.;)

And if you are with the right person it swallows too

[ninetythree]

And I don't understand why anyone would WANT a monogamous relationship. You're going to promise never to have sex with anyone except that one person. Why would anyone WANT to do that?

Because a committed relationship is great when you're in it with the right person.

There's nothing wrong with hating monogamy. But if your partner thinks you've promised to be monogamous and is proven wrong later, it's a massive breach of trust. It's better to clear stuff with them before, and if both of you are cool with non-monogamy, go to town.

[rissababynta]

Because a committed relationship is great when you're in it with the right person.

There's nothing wrong with hating monogamy. But if your partner thinks you've promised to be monogamous and is proven wrong later, it's a massive breach of trust. It's better to clear stuff with them before, and if both of you are cool with non-monogamy, go to town.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[AsianDream]

And I don't understand why anyone would WANT a monogamous relationship. You're going to promise never to have sex with anyone except that one person. Why would anyone WANT to do that? I just don't understand.

I think Monogamy is a perfectly valid choice if both people can really abide by it.

For myself I could never imagine a monogamous relationship working. I’d view to only ever have sex with one person for the rest of my life as (for me) being much the same as only ever talking to one person.

Many Gay Male couples I know have sexually “open” relationships – though monogamous in terms of emotional attachment.

Several of them have said that their other sexual experiences bring fresh ideas into the sexual relationship between them. Though maybe this is just an excuse for being horny!

There are a few people I know who are “Serial Monogamists”. When they do “wander” it often sounds like it is the secrecy, lies and a sense of betrayal that causes the damage – rather than just having an experience outside the relationship.

[Long Duck Dong]

as a monogamous bisexual male, I can honestly say that monogamy is not for everybody.....

you are either able to handle monogamy or you are not..... and if you are not, it can become a struggle to cope with it....

in a way, people can be polar opposites, you have the monogamous people that find no interest in multiple lovers and in fact find it causes more issues for them....and you will have the non monogamous people that enjoy the multiple lovers for a number of reasons, and find that * settling down * to one partner is not in their nature

part of the trouble is actually relationship and marriage.... generally they are one on one, even when open.... as you are returning to the side of the person you are committed to...lol and it has always amused me that people are anti monogamy, yet live in a monogamous styled situation and still doing the single lifestyle.....

each to their own....lol.... non monogamy is not for me.... and monogamy is not for others......

I refuse to blame others for our choices..... I am not morally or socially or religious guided to be monogamous..... its just in me to be monogamous cos its simply less issues for me.....and always has been.......

poly or monogamy .... the choice is for each person to make.... but lol... with two people in a relationship..... sometimes the choices we make for ourselves are not a choice we can make for the relationship / marriage....

[AsianDream]

poly or monogamy .... the choice is for each person to make.... but lol... with two people in a relationship..... sometimes the choices we make for ourselves are not a choice we can make for the relationship / marriage....

I think you've got a very realistic and pragmatic approach to the issue

I guess what's most important is that two people in a relationship both have the same ideas and expectations in this area.

But I'm no expert at all - and maybe will completely change my own view if I meet someone I love that wants monogamy (though I guess he or she would have to be as sexually hot as hell for it to work out).

[Frau Blucher]

If you dislike monogamy that much, there's an easy solution. You and your partner can choose not to be monogamous. It's really that simple.

What you do in your relationship is your business and no one elses, save your partner. But, what others choose to do in their relationship (including monogamy) is none of your business, either. I'm not sure why you let it bother you, or why you are disparaging those who choose something different than yourself.

I hate mushrooms, therefore I choose not to eat them. But I don't hate other people who love to eat them. To each his own.

[12voltman59]

I think that everyone has to work out for themselves how they deal with being monogamous or not----and what a couple decides among themsevles on the nature of their relationship is going to be is their business.

It is kinda of a bummer that society still has all kinds of "rules" that we are "supposed to follow" along those lines.

Just look at our books, movies, music, TV stories, etc.

For supposedly being so "liberal" and out "to destory traditional family values" and all---if you just look at most movies that Hollywood puts out even today---they have a fairly narrowly defined set of "rules" when it comes to people dating and mating that pretty much makes them be defenders of the heterosexual, monogomaous, matrimonial status quo.

Sometimes it seems "modern movies" are even more that way than they were back in "the heyday" of Hollywood.

Let's face it-----most modern romantic comedy movies are pretty much anti-GLBT friendly----ohhh--they might occasionally have some characters that aren't hetero--but such characters are usually marginal, sadsack, unhappy people who are portrayed in very stereotypcial ways. They sure do argue that monogamy is the way things should be.

Certainly---modern films or TV shows, like "Sex in the City" might have some non-traditional characters like Samantha, but most of the characters are straight people desperately seeking to mate up with that "perfect" man or woman-not of the same sex of course and when they do find that person--they live happily ever after and life becomes just peachy-keen!!

It is pretty hard to go against the grain when the messages coming from "society" are that we should all be straight, monogamous people that just have to be married very early in life (like certainly before age 40) or we are some sort of social "undesirables" and are unfullfilled losers if we don't get married early on to that perfect, opposite gendered person.

[tenni]

I agree Voltman. I would expect more support between bisexuals and yet we have posters stating that they are monogamous as if to be otherwise is a shameful act. There are a lot of cultural controls and myths today enforcing a monogamous attitude in mainstream society. Monogamy works for some but not too many over the long haul. I personally kind of like the feeling of security that someone loves me enough that they will not step outside of our monosexual (hetero or gay) relationship. I know that it is not a realistic attitude to hold though. Most of us here are bisexuals and should be preparing not just ourselves but others on this site to accept that monogamy is not realistic for us.

Far too much emphasis is placed on how shattering it is for a person when someone steps outside of a monogamous relationship. It would be better to prepare the shattered people on how to deal with things when something goes wrong long before it does. Place less emphasis on how terrible it is for monogamy vows failing because their is a high chance that it will in today's western societies. Then the relationship may proceed rather than end if it is better prepared for this possibility? (just a thought)

Monogamy as a realistic lifestyle for a healthy bisexual should be put away with Santa Claus. It may work but at what cost? Too much emphasis on the couple concept and not enough on the person. It is not fair to put such pressure on bisexuals (* to paraphrase a recent poster)

With more than 60% of men stepping outside of their relationship sometime during their life, women are not much better), monosexuals (hetero or gay) people should be better prepared to deal with monogamy in a more realistic manner. Bisexuals should stop denying that it is unnatural for us but bible thumper mentality that wants to support monogamy keep the story going.

Where are all the threads about alternate relation variations on this bisexual website? That would seem to be a more realistic approach for bisexuals imo. Instead we have moralistic preachers crying about the poor victims. You are only a victim if you are not prepared and unskilled to deal with it in a more healthy manner. Bisexuals should give more positive support to other bisexuals caught in a hetero monosexual relationship where the hetero refuses to accept divergence.

Bisexuals should not be restricted by monsexuals (hetero or gay). Hell, monosexuals should be more enlightened and less stupid about aspirations of monogamy.

[AsianDream]

Certainly---modern films or TV shows, like "Sex in the City" might have some non-traditional characters like Samantha, but most of the characters are straight people desperately seeking to mate up with that "perfect" man or woman-not of the same sex of course and when they do find that person--they live happily ever after and life becomes just peachy-keen!!

Thank goodness for cable TV and endless repeats - so I can see non recent shows like "Sex in the City".

I did find "Will and Grace" rather silly - Will's love life seems almost incredibly pedestrian and asexual for a supposedly gay man.

In fact Brian in "Queer as Folk" has a sex life that is much nearer reality - except the guys I've met with a similar income all tend to be quite a bit older (but still often just as hot!).

[ninetythree]

Bisexuals should not be restricted by monsexuals (hetero or gay). Hell, monosexuals should be more enlightened and less stupid about aspirations of monogamy.

Bisexuals are not restricted by "monosexuals." If you don't want to be monogamous, don't promise monogamy to your partner. It's simple. Then your partner can decide whether he or she wants a relationship on those terms.

Should people prepare themselves for the possibility their partner will cheat? Sure. Does that mean it's OK to cheat? No.

[citystyleguy]

...as is usual, a whole lot of side branching into other queries, not much focus on the intial question.

monogamy is highly personal preference, for the individual as well as the relationship. as our poster inquires, or more aptly, states its not her! pretty damn directly, and the situation is made worse, as there is the hetero spouse that sets parameters of carefully defined borders.

the only thing is to set the hubby down, lay out your expectations; then, he should be given the same chance. from there you can start a dialogue of what can be acceptable or not , and if there is too many no's, mmmh, well time for some very serious meditation as to where you want to find yourself down the road.

as to all the society blah, blah, if that sort of thing is important to you, then it only adds yet another set of definitions to corral yourself and the spouse.

the relationship is the two of you, and is that to be true to self as well as the other, or exist in yet another ltr, that is lived in bitterness or worse.

as to the bisexual having a right to a polymorous relationship, i think it is less the bisexual, and more the polysexual that considers this type of relationship a right. not that the bisexual ltr can't have the same, hell, any sexuality can have polymorous relationships, but these other sexualities are more likely to perfer definitions to their partners expectations, as well as to make a personal decision along that perference, that a polysexual may find highly restrictive.

again, my choice is mine, and your's is your's; and so along with what the partner expects, a collective, or finally, an individual decision, becomes necessary.

a prayer that you can find the wisdom to know what that answer will ultimately be!

[citystyleguy]

...okay, i was going to hold off on this, in order to direct my response to the intended posting, but..,

what the fuck is a monosexual, someone who beats off in the privacy of their abode. i have never in all my wanderings come across a monosexual!!!

someone want to enlighten this boy?!

[Long Duck Dong]

the thing we have to do, is realise, nobody is forcing the bisexual to stray..... there is no partner sitting at home with a gun to our heads forcing us to sleep with other people, so we need to stop blaming our partners for our actions

we also need to accept that the rep that we have as unfaithful people, is one we deserve if we are going to say, we want our relationships and marriages, but we want our extra sexual activities as well

and we will have to accept that the bisexual community will split into splinter groups.... as not everybody thinks the same way or feels the same way about things

I can not help but notice that the people that form relationships and marriages that are open and sexually free.... are generally the same people that are not in the forums bitching about how they got into relationships with monogamous natured people and how wrong and unfair it is and how selfish it is......

there have been times that I have had bi friends bitching about how they can not have a relationship with hot sexy females, cos the female is not interested in a open relationship and how the female is being selfish cos the bi guy wants to be with her......
it amuses the hell out of me...... bi people complaining cos they want a relationship with a person that doesn't want a open relationship.....
newsflash,.... people do not have to date bisexual people.... or sleep with them either......

even better, get rid of relationships and marriage.... that solves the monogamy issue in relationships and marriage......
but no, people still want the best of both worlds and none of the issues that can come with it......lol

[Long Duck Dong]

...okay, i was going to hold off on this, in order to direct my response to the intended posting, but..,

what the fuck is a monosexual, someone who beats off in the privacy of their abode. i have never in all my wanderings come across a monosexual!!!

someone want to enlighten this boy?!

just for you city...... monosexual.... do not confuse with mono rail :p (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosexuality)

[citystyleguy]

...oh what the hell!

isnt it somewhat of a conflict to talk of this supposed monosexual, in any kind of consideration of a damn relationship???

[citystyleguy]

just for you city...... monosexual.... do not confuse with mono rail :p (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosexuality)

loving you right back, ldd; ;)

leave it to wikipedia to dump mud right back into the muck; so what then is the meaning of heterosexual, or is this one of those philosophical discussions of understanding the concept of the irrestible force encountering the immovable object! :banghead:

[Canticle]

''Far too much emphasis is placed on how shattering it is for a person when someone steps outside of a monogamous relationship. It would be better to prepare the shattered people on how to deal with things when something goes wrong long before it does. Place less emphasis on how terrible it is for monogamy vows failing because their is a high chance that it will in today's western societies. Then the relationship may proceed rather than end if it is better prepared for this possibility? (just a thought)''

Oh, Yeah, really??

[Long Duck Dong]

loving you right back, ldd; ;)

leave it to wikipedia to dump mud right back into the muck; so what then is the meaning of heterosexual, or is this one of those philosophical discussions of understanding the concept of the irrestible force encountering the immovable object! :banghead:

heterosexuality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterosexuality)

the key is the wording... monosexuals are attracted to one gender..... heteros are attracted to the opposite genders. homosexuals to the same gender, pansexuals to all genders.....

monosexual can mean a gay, lesbian or hetero person as they are attracted to one gender......

[AsianDream]

I have noticed in my short time on this site that the various “Monogamy” threads seems to be a rather “BIG ENDIAN” / “LITTLE ENDIAN” type of debate and seem to be a cause of personal conflict between people who seem to agree on almost all the important issues?

Though I guess I’m blundering in where angels fear to tread

[citystyleguy]

heterosexuality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterosexuality)

the key is the wording... monosexuals are attracted to one gender..... heteros are attracted to the opposite genders. homosexuals to the same gender, pansexuals to all genders.....

monosexual can mean a gay, lesbian or hetero person as they are attracted to one gender......

okay, you win!

maybe the workday has been longer than i thought, maybe i only understand russian now, i could do with a latte, or maybe a late night cappa, what the fuck;

and now i am going to go play solitair with a deck of 51!

you know i love you, my other ducks! thanks for trying, tho'

[just4mefc]

loving you right back, ldd; ;)

leave it to wikipedia to dump mud right back into the muck; so what then is the meaning of heterosexual, or is this one of those philosophical discussions of understanding the concept of the irrestible force encountering the immovable object! :banghead:

It does sound like a George Carlin comedy bit... "how do you TAKE a piss? I don't know about you, but I LEAVE a piss, I don't take one" kind of thing. :bigrin:

[just4mefc]

I have a very selfish reason for being monogamous, Cause I hate how I feel about ME, when I cheat. Back in the day cheating was such a soul crushing experience. Too hurt the one I gave MY word too was sooo painful. I solved the problem by being in a marriage with a woman who is also bi and shares my love of sex. We use to be into 3somes and other non-monogamy scenes but never cheated nor played without consent. Just so happens we have been monogamous for a long time now, but that is more a result of timing and life and all that jazz. But even if do play again someday (I am certain we will) we will maintain our trust and openness. I would never be in a relationship again that was the so called "forced monogamy" but monogamy by choice sure does seem to work. The knowing I could go be with someone takes away all that control stuff.

[AsianDream]

It does sound like a George Carlin comedy bit... "how do you TAKE a piss? I don't know about you, but I LEAVE a piss, I don't take one" kind of thing. :bigrin:

Not to go into too much detail on my Watersports fetish - but I'd never dream of leaving a piss :)

[sammie19]

I agree Voltman. I would expect more support between bisexuals and yet we have posters stating that they are monogamous as if to be otherwise is a shameful act. There are a lot of cultural controls and myths today enforcing a monogamous attitude in mainstream society. Monogamy works for some but not too many over the long haul. I personally kind of like the feeling of security that someone loves me enough that they will not step outside of our monosexual (hetero or gay) relationship. I know that it is not a realistic attitude to hold though. Most of us here are bisexuals and should be preparing not just ourselves but others on this site to accept that monogamy is not realistic for us.

Far too much emphasis is placed on how shattering it is for a person when someone steps outside of a monogamous relationship. It would be better to prepare the shattered people on how to deal with things when something goes wrong long before it does. Place less emphasis on how terrible it is for monogamy vows failing because their is a high chance that it will in today's western societies. Then the relationship may proceed rather than end if it is better prepared for this possibility? (just a thought)

Monogamy as a realistic lifestyle for a healthy bisexual should be put away with Santa Claus. It may work but at what cost? Too much emphasis on the couple concept and not enough on the person. It is not fair to put such pressure on bisexuals (* to paraphrase a recent poster)

With more than 60% of men stepping outside of their relationship sometime during their life, women are not much better), monosexuals (hetero or gay) people should be better prepared to deal with monogamy in a more realistic manner. Bisexuals should stop denying that it is unnatural for us but bible thumper mentality that wants to support monogamy keep the story going.

Where are all the threads about alternate relation variations on this bisexual website? That would seem to be a more realistic approach for bisexuals imo. Instead we have moralistic preachers crying about the poor victims. You are only a victim if you are not prepared and unskilled to deal with it in a more healthy manner. Bisexuals should give more positive support to other bisexuals caught in a hetero monosexual relationship where the hetero refuses to accept divergence.

Bisexuals should not be restricted by monsexuals (hetero or gay). Hell, monosexuals should be more enlightened and less stupid about aspirations of monogamy.

Why should monosexuals be more enlightened? It is so easily argued that being monogamous is also enlightened. What is enlightened is trying to understand why our partners have the attitudes and personal sexual morality they do.

Many people fall in love or enter into a relationship with someone who believes in monogamy while they themselves do not wish to live such a life. Something has to give if such relationships are to work. Ignore society and its accepted morality for now. Two people want a relationship but each has different sexual beliefs. Are they to completely sacrifice their love for each other because of it? There can be compromise, but it isn't easy. It is easier for the one who does not want a monogamous relationship in one sense to make the sacrifice. Their more relaxed attitude to sex with other people can make it easier to settle down with just one, wheras the one who believes in a monogamous lifestyle for whatever reason are unable to accept their lovers wish for other lovers.

I have known partnerships where those who wish to live monogamously do try and meet their partner's wishes. It has invariably proved disasterous, although sometimes it has worked as they have found their attitudes change. I have known partnerships which are monogamous because that is how one party wishes it. I live in such a partnership. It is not I who wishes it, but because of the depth of feeling I have for my partner I live as she wishes. It is easier for me to make the sacrifice because of how we think and feel.

I have known one relationship which ended because the partner of one agreed to try a more swinging lifestyle, and when she found she enjoyed it her partner found his own insecurities and possessive nature come to the fore. Apparently the idea was more attractive than the reality.

All relationships run the risk of one or both parties cheating. I believe it more likely although not inevitable that where one who wishes a more open sexual lifestyle has agreed to be monogamous, they will cheat at some time in the relationship. It seems to make a lot of sense to me. No relationship of any kind is immune to cheating, but the type in which I have agreed to live is probably more likely to find the more open partner cheating. This does not absolve them of the crime. On the contrary it is a breaking of a promise to a partner and lover, and is as reprehensible as any other kind of cheating.

No relationship will ever be perfect. All we can do is try and love our partner as best we can and make them as happy as we can. In a relationship we all make sacrifices, and sometimes it works and probably just as often it does not.

As bisexuals we do not have an automatic free ride to fuck whoever and whenever we choose. We are not special and we are not that different from gay or heterosexual people. We live in a world where to make relationships work we have to give and take, although not necessarily like for like.

Monogamy or polyamory or any other way of living is no more enlightened or unenlightened than any other, sexually speaking. They are ways of living which work for some but do not for others. Because we are so varied in our morality and our beliefs in how we should live there will always be mismatches and problems as people struggle to make relationships work. There will be casualties and much misery. That sad to relate, is the lot of far too many people. Our very variety in what we want will always make it this way. There will also always be glorious successes from those struggles.

[tenni]

Well expressed Sammi

Going outside an agreement is unfortunate. Is it reprehensible? I'm not sure but it is sad if the agreement can not be revised to both party's satisfaction. When agreements are founded and factors are unknown that is a problem when they surface. When societal values make one approach to live as acceptable and another as unacceptable with moral condemnations added in to boot, it is no wonder that the monosexual partner finds difficulty accepting bisexuals. The societal expectation for monogomy is deeply ingrained within the values and morals of our society just as heterosexuality is deeply ingrained. When one partner refuses to re neogitate the agreement or enter into a relationship with a bisexual with monogamous restrictions , then the bisexual is placed in a position of decision making.

There does not seem to be much leeway even on this bisexual website for much creative thinking among bisexuals. Basically, most adhere to a normative monogamous relationship but I may be mis reading. Certainly the concept of coupledom is the mainstay here. It is within society as well. I rarely read of a lot of solutions for people like the OP offerred on this site.

Those bisexuals who find themselves in relationships with a monogamous thinking partner are not given much support beyond talk to your partner. Best, if this issue had been explored before the agreement but life is not perfect. Sometimes, it is the monosexual who has issues that prevent a "talk" from resolving it and due to societal expectations about monogamy make it impossible even for a discussion. This is not the OP but an example...if a bisexual enters an agreement with a monosexual who has been sexually abused, there are going to be problems. If the monosexual has not resolved that part of their life and even if they have it is going to be very difficult to talk to them about such bisexual issues. If the community rejects bisexuality, then almost impossible for a bisexual to begin such a discussion with such a person. If the bisexual "thought" that they might be able to ignore their bisexuality, then there are going to be real big problems that "talking" may not resolve. Sometimes a bisexual finds a solution other than giving up the relationship. Sometimes it is to go outside of the relationship and not discuss it. Sometimes, that is the best solution.

How many of us are emotionally prepared to deal with a partner going outside of our relationship? I don't think that we are and it part it is societal norms of expectations prevent us from being prepared. We get feelings of betrayal etc. As Just4 states, we feel bad for going outside without permission. We are raised to believe that is not the solution for either parties. Is it? Is too much emphasis placed on sex as a factor in a relationship? Is too much emphasis placed on monogamy in determining a relationship? We seem ill prepared for much beyond everyone will remain faithful. There are unwritten/unspoken/un negotiated agreements in some longer term relationships. Don't ask me. Don't tell me. ...but if you are caught..it is your fault.

When I look back on a major love of mine who cheated on me. I see how neither of us were prepared to really not place "monogamy" as the sign of be allness in our relationship. I certainly did. She was a wonderful sexual bisexual woman that I was ill prepared to talk to about it. I denied my own bisexuality at that time or I don't think that I even knew about the term. She told me that she had never been "faithful" to any man ....somehow I thought that I was different because she loved me and so she would be faithful(duh..dumb ass me). Even she had concepts about monogamy that prevented her from continuing in a relationship after that point. I understand that she now has some kind of "relationship" that is more open. I saw her recently after 15 years....sigh...too bad.

[MarieDelta]

For those of you interested in reading about prehistoric ideas on sex and sexuality from an anthropological stand point you might check out "Sex At Dawn" (http://www.sexatdawn.com/)


Jacket copy:
Since Darwin’s day, we’ve been told that sexual monogamy comes naturally to our species. Mainstream science—as well as religious and cultural institutions—have maintained that men and women evolved in families in which a man’s possessions and protection were exchanged for a woman’s fertility and fidelity. But this narrative is collapsing. Fewer and fewer couples are getting married and divorce rates keep climbing as adultery and flagging libido drag down even seemingly solid marriages.

How can reality be reconciled with the accepted narrative? It can’t be, according to renegade thinkers Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jethá. While debunking almost everything we “know” about sex, they offer a bold alternative explanation in this provocative and brilliant book.

Ryan and Jethá’s central contention is that human beings evolved in egalitarian groups that shared food, child care, and often, sexual partners. Weaving together convergent, often overlooked evidence from anthropology, archeology, primatology, anatomy, and psychosexuality, the authors show how far from human nature monogamy really is. Turns out, human beings everywhere and in every era have confronted the same familiar, intimate situations in surprisingly different ways. The authors expose the ancient roots of human sexuality while pointing toward a more optimistic future illuminated by our innate capacities for love, cooperation, and generosity.

With intelligence, humor, and wonder, Ryan and Jethá show how our promiscuous past haunts our struggles over monogamy, sexual orientation, and family dynamics. They explore why long-term fidelity can be so difficult for so many; why sexual passion tends to fade even as love deepens; why many middle-aged men risk everything for transient affairs with younger women; why homosexuality persists in the face of standard evolutionary logic; and what the human body reveals about the prehistoric origins of modern sexuality.

In the tradition of the best historical and scientific writing, Sex at Dawn unapologetically upends unwarranted assumptions and unfounded conclusions while offering a revolutionary understanding of why we live and love as we do.

[kcatthegreat]

I have known partnerships where those who wish to live monogamously do try and meet their partner's wishes. It has invariably proved disasterous, although sometimes it has worked as they have found their attitudes change. I have known partnerships which are monogamous because that is how one party wishes it. I live in such a partnership. It is not I who wishes it, but because of the depth of feeling I have for my partner I live as she wishes. It is easier for me to make the sacrifice because of how we think and feel.

I have known one relationship which ended because the partner of one agreed to try a more swinging lifestyle, and when she found she enjoyed it her partner found his own insecurities and possessive nature come to the fore. Apparently the idea was more attractive than the reality.

Sammie,

Thank you for this post. As I said, my husband has agreed that I can have a girlfriend, just not a boyfriend. I think he is doing this to accommodate my polyamorous desires. But your post makes me worry. If I have a girlfriend, will that create problems for us?

To everyone else:

It's not the monogamy that I'm complaining about, really. I told my husband quite early in our relationship that I had trouble with monogamy and he and I have always worked it out. It's not my husband that I'm having a problem with. It's the outside world. It's just that no one understands my desire for polyamory. If I express interest in extramarital relationships, people act like I don't love my husband. But I love him so much. It hurts me when people say that I don't. I wish people could understand that I just like sex and it doesn't have anything to do with anything else. But no one seems to get that.

[sammie19]

Sammie,

Thank you for this post. As I said, my husband has agreed that I can have a girlfriend, just not a boyfriend. I think he is doing this to accommodate my polyamorous desires. But your post makes me worry. If I have a girlfriend, will that create problems for us?



I don't know Kcat. No one has a crystal ball when it comes to relationships. It depends on so many things. The kind of person she is, how she looks and acts, how your husband takes to her or even the reality of the relationship. How you react to her, talk about her or not and to his reaction. How or even if you listen to his concerns. Until you do have a girl friend, or begin to date girls, it is impossible to say whether it will create problems in your relationship with your husband or not.

A friend of mine says that every relationship is a risk, but if we did not take risks with relationships we would be alone. She is right, but we have to weigh up those risks as well as we can with the information we have to hand. That information will be incomplete, but no matter how deeply we are involved with anyone it will always be incomplete.

[just4mefc]

Sammie,

Thank you for this post. As I said, my husband has agreed that I can have a girlfriend, just not a boyfriend. I think he is doing this to accommodate my polyamorous desires. But your post makes me worry. If I have a girlfriend, will that create problems for us?


This was the same type of agreement my wife and I had when we first got together. I gave her free reign to have sex with other women but not other men. I had a bit of jealousy the first time she actually took me up on it, but that turned into a sense of connection between us. So it might cause an issue for your husband but it might not.

I quote myself from another post here.. http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?p=172884#post172884

When my wife and I first got together, she was BI and I at the time thought myself very str8. I too said she should not be hindered and I was very open to her being with a woman. The first time was rather difficult I must admit. She had gone out with a friend of ours who happens to be a lesbian. They came back to our house after dinner. They came in said hi to me, my wife kissed me said I love you and they went off to the bedroom. For the next hour and a half I sat and worked on the computer. As I sat I did become more and more anxious. I found myself becoming very hurt and down right angry. All the classic questions ran through my head "am I not good enough for her"... "is the lesbian friend better then me..."... "will I lose her to a woman someday..." etc... . Finally they came out from the bedroom, the friend left and my wife came to to hug me. She could tell I was mad. She asked me "how you doin babe" I sat simi ignoring her "I'm fine" and I just pretended to work on the computer. I said so "did you have fun" in the most dis-engenuous voice you could imagine, I was holding back tears, confused, angry, scared, sad.... flooded with emotion. She could feel my anger through my voice and she would have had every right to come back with "what the fuck are you mad about, you said it was ok and now you are mad at me?" This could have been the end of us, right there in that moment... But here is where she was so very sensitive and connected to me. She said I see you are hurting and touched my shoulders, I started to cry and said yes I am so confused. I don't know why I am freaking out, I said it was ok but I am going crazy here. She felt horrified for having hurt me so. Said she only did it because she thought I was so ok with it. I said I thought I was. Now she was full of fear and concern. It was rough. As we talked about it I started to feel better. I started to see I was mostly hurt by my perceived exclusion. Then I realized she had in fact included me. She told me about it before hand, she did everything in the open, she was in fact in our bed as I was in the house. This really was an US experience. I felt stronger, safer knowing that I had been able to give her the space for such a strong thing. Gradually I wanted to know all the details... she told me of how good she felt and how powerful it was that I was in the other room in support of her. How very very good the sex was and how she came 8 times or so. I was both jealous and turned on. She started to kiss me and give me more and more details and stroke me and make crazy love to me. It turned out to be one very intense love making session. I felt so very included in what had happened at that point....

So yes it was very painful, yet very joyous. It bonded us in a special way, our relationship grew even closer. She had a few more dates with our friend and always would tell me all about it afterwards. She loved that she would have sex with her and then later get to have sex with me. She said this was a perfect balance. As I got closer to the friend and everyone developed faith that I was not going to flip out I was brought into watch. Ok now this was a mans dream come true. We eventually had a few 3-somes. Not your typical fmf, more of a ffm both the woman and I exclusively making love to my wife and not touching each other. That was 12 years ago and we are still together and have an amazing relationship.

So the pain can lead to an amazing place. My suggestion is to include him in the journey to the best of his comfort. This is such a strong love your man has for you. Be sensitive and allow him his emotion. Help him understand that it really is a shared experience even if he is not in the room physically.

As men we fear our bi women might be lesbians and have no further need for us. This is the continuing confusion on what bisexual really means. As you said if you are bi and you have a great man and supplement with a woman, or two here and there, why would you leave. Sounds like the perfect balance for the bisexual person. The challenge is to establish and maintain communication throughout your journey together.

The question is, do you trust him (and yourself) to work through any issues this might create? For us it was a watershed moment in our relationship so glad I took the risk and worked through the issues that arose. Today my relationship could not be better nor more fulfilling, the mutual discovery of self was an amazing thing to grow through. But it did come with some pain and self doubt along the way. The work is what made it special.

[ErosUrge]

It may create problems for you since you have written about how you are into lying and cheating with people who you are in relationships with.

Would you be OK with him going out and having a girlfriend or female lover of his own without you there?

He probably figures that you don't need or want another man because you have him and supposedly care so much about him. :rolleyes:

It sounds like you are greedy and want to have your cake and eat it too by forcing an open relationship on your husband who doesn't really want one to begin with by cheating on him and saying "this is how I am! I'm bisexual so you have to accept that I need sex with others besides you! If you really cared about me you'd understand!" :rolleyes:

Bisexuals like you give the monogamous bisexuals who do not cheat or want to lie and go behind their spouse's back and have affiars on them, a bad name.

Again another example of someone who doesn't get it and is very self-righteous. She never said ANYTHING about cheating or being deceitful; that is entirely your take. No one is speaking about lies and deceit here. Hiding and being deceitful are definitely not good for anyone including the person doing it. However, people do stumble and fall and make mistakes. And are they to be condemned for it and forever? How is it YOU are the one that is in charge and sets all parameters? You probably consider yourself a Christian also or that would be my guess. And the ones that profess to be usually don't live it but are ready to talk it. So if it is, once again, "He without sin cast the first stone"....I mean really...

She never said anything about cheating.

I think that monogamy is an amazing thing and beautiful, but not everyone can do it. But that doesn't make those who do not choose it less than those who do choose monogamy. If indeed it is made clear what we are when entering a relationship or what we at least intend, that is a beginning. Deceit and lies don't just happen with bisexuals and there you are mistaken to say that it gives bisexuality a bad name...so much deceit and lying goes on with straights and gays also; it has nothing to do with orientation. Deceit and lying is what it is and it's ugly and applies to everyone.

And how is it one calls oneself bisexual and is here at this site claiming monogamy? If one is truly monogamous, then claiming to be bisexual is a bit of an oxymoron. If indeed one is monogamous, then it would mean that person is no longer participating sexually with anyone except that person they are supposedly committed to. They may have been bisexual prior to entering a committed relationship, but the reality of it only remains in past experiences only. I know there are bi couples here that are monogamous and committed only to each other...and that they're bisexuality has more to do with the past than with the present. And I think they have a right like anyone to be here. Sexuality is so multi-faceted and everyone has a story. And as has often been pointed out by many at this site, labels get ridiculous after a while but we choose to use them to somehow describe something about us somehow.

However, when someone such as luv2eatass goes into an attack frenzy or just about every post he puts up is on a negative slope, things become quite clear about the makings of such an individual. But interestingly enough, luv2eatass has absolutely no information in his profile....which in itself is a bit suspect for someone who is so ready to make attacks on anyone here. It's okay that he doesn't have any info on himself as that is his prerogative. But it looks to me like he's hiding by not divulging anything about himself. Is he afraid that somehow someone he knows might find out he's here? Or have an idea it's him? And yet he is ready to come here and talk nonsense about lying and cheating, blah blah blah. Very suspect indeed.

Anytime anyone attacks someone so viciously as luv2eatass has, it says more about the person on the attack than the one they're attacking. There are other methods of presenting opposition than coming at someone from a self-righteous attitude. And anyone self-righteous in my opinion reveals what is obvious about them for everyone to see. I too am obviously a bit self-righteous by even addressing this and spending so much energy on it. It would probably have been best to not even respond to this as for those who can see do see what is at work with luv2eatass.

I expect a very intense retaliatory response to this and of course when one is on the defensive after having been on the offensive, they will usually show their true colors as has already been the case with him taking to the offense.

This doesn't have to be so ugly...and I do wish you well in your monogamy. That in itself should be enough for you. And if you are monogamous, what are you doing here at this website and is it with your 'committed partners' knowledge? I wish you well; truthfully.

[just4mefc]

Again another example of someone who doesn't get it and is very self-righteous. She never said ANYTHING about cheating or being deceitful; that is entirely your take. No one is speaking about lies and deceit here. Hiding and being deceitful are definitely not good for anyone including the person doing it. However, people do stumble and fall and make mistakes. And are they to be condemned for it and forever? How is it YOU are the one that is in charge and sets all parameters? You probably consider yourself a Christian also or that would be my guess. And the ones that profess to be usually don't live it but are ready to talk it. So if it is, once again, "He without sin cast the first stone"....I mean really...

She never said anything about cheating.

I think that monogamy is an amazing thing and beautiful, but not everyone can do it. But that doesn't make those who do not choose it less than those who do choose monogamy. If indeed it is made clear what we are when entering a relationship or what we at least intend, that is a beginning. Deceit and lies don't just happen with bisexuals and there you are mistaken to say that it gives bisexuality a bad name...so much deceit and lying goes on with straights and gays also; it has nothing to do with orientation. Deceit and lying is what it is and it's ugly and applies to everyone.

And how is it one calls oneself bisexual and is here at this site claiming monogamy? If one is truly monogamous, then claiming to be bisexual is a bit of an oxymoron. If indeed one is monogamous, then it would mean that person is no longer participating sexually with anyone except that person they are supposedly committed to. They may have been bisexual prior to entering a committed relationship, but the reality of it only remains in past experiences only. I know there are bi couples here that are monogamous and committed only to each other...and that they're bisexuality has more to do with the past than with the present. And I think they have a right like anyone to be here. Sexuality is so multi-faceted and everyone has a story. And as has often been pointed out by many at this site, labels get ridiculous after a while but we choose to use them to somehow describe something about us somehow.

However, when someone such as luv2eatass goes into an attack frenzy or just about every post he puts up is on a negative slope, things become quite clear about the makings of such an individual. But interestingly enough, luv2eatass has absolutely no information in his profile....which in itself is a bit suspect for someone who is so ready to make attacks on anyone here. It's okay that he doesn't have any info on himself as that is his prerogative. But it looks to me like he's hiding by not divulging anything about himself. Is he afraid that somehow someone he knows might find out he's here? Or have an idea it's him? And yet he is ready to come here and talk nonsense about lying and cheating, blah blah blah. Very suspect indeed.

Anytime anyone attacks someone so viciously as luv2eatass has, it says more about the person on the attack than the one they're attacking. There are other methods of presenting opposition than coming at someone from a self-righteous attitude. And anyone self-righteous in my opinion reveals what is obvious about them for everyone to see. I too am obviously a bit self-righteous by even addressing this and spending so much energy on it. It would probably have been best to not even respond to this as for those who can see do see what is at work with luv2eatass.

I expect a very intense retaliatory response to this and of course when one is on the defensive after having been on the offensive, they will usually show their true colors as has already been the case with him taking to the offense.

This doesn't have to be so ugly...and I do wish you well in your monogamy. That in itself should be enough for you. And if you are monogamous, what are you doing here at this website and is it with your 'committed partners' knowledge? I wish you well; truthfully.

Me thinks I hear the sounds of the circus clown once again luv2eatass different nose same clown... Just a thought ;)

[ninetythree]

There does not seem to be much leeway even on this bisexual website for much creative thinking among bisexuals. Basically, most adhere to a normative monogamous relationship but I may be mis reading.

Speaking for myself, I don't have any problem at all with people not liking monogamy. If they can find a partner who accepts and/or embraces that, I wish them happiness. I just don't like the idea that if your partner wants monogamy and you don't want it anymore, it is OK to be non-monogamous without telling them.


Those bisexuals who find themselves in relationships with a monogamous thinking partner are not given much support beyond talk to your partner. Best, if this issue had been explored before the agreement but life is not perfect.

True. I sympathize with people who need sex outside of their monogamous relationship but don't want to lose that relationship. But a relationship without honesty isn't much of a relationship, in my opinion.


Sometimes a bisexual finds a solution other than giving up the relationship. Sometimes it is to go outside of the relationship and not discuss it. Sometimes, that is the best solution.

Can't agree with that. I think that is a horrible thing to do to someone you love. It tricks someone else into being monogamous when you are not. If a partner is so invested in monogamy that he or she would end the relationship without it, why is it OK to deny them that happiness? Bisexuals don't want our own happiness to be denied. Monogamous people deserve it too.

But if you're a person out there reading this who has decided it is the best solution, I'm sorry to come down so hard on it. I've been cheated on and had a huge problem with it. You feel stupid, disposable and completely taken for granted.

[sammie19]

Can't agree with that. I think that is a horrible thing to do to someone you claim to love. It tricks someone else into being monogamous when you are not. If a partner is so invested in monogamy that he or she would end the relationship without it, why is it OK to deny them that happiness? Bisexuals don't want our own happiness to be denied. Monogamous people deserve it too.

Classic Catch 22. One partner wants monogamy the other not. Both partners' desires can't be satisfied without one or other being denied.

[ninetythree]

Classic Catch 22. One partner wants monogamy the other not. Both partners' desires can't be satisfied without one or other being denied.

Relationships aren't forced on us. If two people ultimately cannot agree on something that is exceptionally important to them -- kids or no kids, monogamy, religion, career path -- then they might be happier with somebody else.

[sammie19]

Relationships aren't forced on us. If two people ultimately cannot agree on something that is exceptionally important to them -- kids or no kids, monogamy, religion, career path -- then they might be happier with somebody else.

You're right. Relationships aren't forced on us, but if we love someone and care for them enough then we do what we can to make things work. Even things important to us get sacrificed as do things which are important to them. It may not be enough, and we may not be able to hold up our end of the bargain but we try to do what we can to make the relationship a success. Relationships are hit and miss and we all make mistakes. We make promises we try to keep, but many of us fail for many different reasons. Even keeping our promises can and does put unacceptable strains on a relationship and dooms it.

No matter how much we love, or are in love and knowing we will never love so deeply again simply isn't enough.

[citystyleguy]

It does sound like a George Carlin comedy bit... "how do you TAKE a piss? I don't know about you, but I LEAVE a piss, I don't take one" kind of thing. :bigrin:

amen, to that!

[kcatthegreat]

just4me:
Thank you for sharing that. It provides a lot of insight and it's very beautiful that you and your wife have worked things out so well.

[kcatthegreat]

I expect a very intense retaliatory response to this and of course when one is on the defensive after having been on the offensive, they will usually show their true colors as has already been the case with him taking to the offense.


Eros,

Thanks for understanding and thank you for defending me.

However I have been warned about luv2eatass being a troll, so I'm not too worried about it. I'm pretty sure (s)he is just trying to provoke me because (s)he finds it entertaining.

Thankfully there are a lot of other people with insightful, interesting things to say about this topic, so I'll just focus on those posts.