Well I was wondering if there were any other religious bisexuals out there. I am personally Catholic, I just think that it is silly to have a bunch of old virgins make the rules on sex. lol. I heard a Lesbian minister once say "I think God cares more about what we do with our resources then what we do with our genitals." I agree with that.
Fake glasses + Mustache tattoo = perfect disguise
Silly they may be, but virgins is debatable if we are to believe half of what we hear and read.Originally Posted by Jobelorocks
My mum is a methodist who says if God wished us not to enjoy sex why did he allow us so many different ways to enjoy it? Her mum, also a methodist says multiple orgasm is god's way of making up to women for the shit men put us through by being so bloody shiftless. Neither are bisexual but what they think is as appropriate to bisexuality as anything else.
A friend of mine who is bisexual and is religious being a member of the Church of Scotland says she has been interpreting the bible ever since she could read and her interpretations make as much sense as anything religious scholars have ever said. She says that the story of Lot was a misinterpretation and it wasn't about Lot and Sodom and Gommorah. What the Old Testament story is about is Sodom Alltommorah lots.
Re: Religious Bisexuals
I've been Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Nazarene, LDS, & visited Pentecostal; I'm spiritual as well as carnal; naturally, the 2 r in conflict; the word, abomination used to torment me when referring to homosexuality until I recently discovered that God sees many things abominable, such as , a proud heart, a lying tongue, dishonest business practices; how prevalent r these sins in our society & world?
FIRE IN THE BELLY
ex christian..... I tried to do the * right thing * and follow god but I got to the point where I said, its not in my nature to decide whom is worthy and whom is not..... specially when I am human just like the rest of the world..... and that god is welcome to judge us....
what makes me laugh is that the old testament is used to slam gays etc.... yet the new testament was when jesus died on the cross for our sins, and all the old ways no longer applied.... it was now between us and god, not us and man..... and yet religious people still refer to the * old laws * and judge people
The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands
Well it is funny because in Leviticus, which is the book with the most widely used anti-gay verse,it also says that men cannot trim their beards or cut off the hair on the sides of their heads (that's why many jews have those curly cues), or things like you can't wear clothing woven with two different kinds of thread, but they write of those rules....They just pick and choose what they want to apply and what they don't want to apply.
Hello,
Religious Bisexual here and proud(a good pride though lol). It is a bit difficult because like you I feel there are few. I think many times the religious get too tied up in the details thinking there is no room for interpretation. However, there is room for us who aren't in the "mainstream," and I think it is important to focus on things that really matter in a world where a lot of crap is happening. Love is most important
I don't really like using the term "religious," rather one of "having a relationship with God" or "spiritual" instead.
I love that you mentioned the other Leviticus verse; next time any one tries arguing conservatively about the "issue," I am going to bring that up
I think that what bugs me most is that there are both secular and spiritual types who are kind enough about hearing of gays, but bisexual is just repulsive.
1) is there an online version of the Bible that can be searched?
2) Such as I have seen of Leviticus so far just tells how to make a blood sacrifice using birds and how to lay out the liver.
Gratefully enjoying my sixth Ramadan!
Cheers
Atiq
.................................................. .................................................. ........
I'll decide between men and women the day you decide between food and oxygen.
http://www.biblegateway.com
This is a very interesting topic. I am very spiritual, and consider myself a Christian (mainline protestant, no less). I still have these bi-tendencies. Why? I don't know, I can't control my attractions. Will I burn in hell for my actions? Maybe.
Don't get me wrong. I am not stressed out over this. Just consider it my two cents.
I will probably post more later as I sort this out.
If you believe that Great Spirit is the Creator of all things and that everything has its purpose, then we all have our place in the universe for a reason.
Grandmother Listeningeyes
Elder of the Fellowship of the Red Road
Well I find in most Bibles there are little titles before sections. The gay verse is under the sexual practices section (specifically verse 18:22) and the other things I mentioned are in the various rules section(the verse about the hair and beard is 19:27 and the cloth verse is 19:19).
Well, my family was originally polish so when I was very young we were Roman Catholic but never seriously practiced. I remember being 5 years old in a balcony watching the priest in many fine vestments, swinging around the incense talking about how Jesus was a poor carpenter - but it didn't seem at all to me that the man who was speaking was poor, nor did the church look modest.
Later on I became Methodist because that is what everybody seemed to want me to do, and the people there were friendly and loving and we sang songs about how Jesus loves all the people in the world. But later on as my sexuality developed and I realized I was attracted to men the message I was hearing became "Jesus loves all people (except those homosexuals, Muslims, etc.) So I thought to myself, as nice as these people are to me now, what would they think of me if they knew as a man that I had romantic thoughts about other men?
It was a painful thought leaving the Christian church because I liked the structure, the people really were friendly and what could be more appealing to a very young "gay" person than an ever loving male father figure? But I felt like an outcast, not because of what was said, but because of what was not said.
I decided that God gave me free will and not feeling welcome there I would seek out diversity, and unity all at the same time so read many books, attended sermons and lectures - tried to find spiritual inspiration in many places. My relationship with the divine got a lot better when I stopped thinking of God as a domineering parent figure trying to control my life, and started thinking of the divine more as a loving partner.
One of the worst things that I think the church does is separate humanity from God, including human sexuality.. Instead of enforcing the message that human beings are a PART of creation that deserve just as much love and respect as the rest.. They instead say God is up here (points) and we are down here (points) and there is nothing you can do about it... that's the wrong message and it has caused so much heartache and strife over the years. Why shouldn't people say to themselves instead, "Look, I can show loving compassion, just like God" or "God loves me so I will love others".
I have tried various aspects of a bunch of faiths, I think the closest label you could put on me is probably Gnostic Christian. In other words I do believe in the parables Jesus taught while he was ALIVE.
I celebrate the fact that God gave me free will and curiosity to ask questions and figure out the answers for myself through interaction with other people. I shy away from a faith that doesn't allow you to ask questions.
In the book "What would Buddha do?" someone asked Buddha "Why does the world exist?" and supposedly he replied, "It is creation expressing itself in many forms". ..I would also add, "and learning from itself in the process".
When Christians say "We are all the body of Christ" I take that literally, we are all a part of creation and none of us operates alone in a vacuum. In science (chemistry) there is something called the valance theory of electrons - it states that the reason chemical reactions occur is there are a bunch of electrons and protons whizzing around in all of these "unstable" elements and that their ultimate goal is to combine together to form stable elements. I wonder if that isn't true on a much larger scale - that the whole of creation and all that we see is ALSO working toward the goal of becoming more stable? Try staring out of an aeroplane window once after it leaves the runway and see if you don't see what I see - little ants, networks upon networks of systems, all interconnected trying to figure it out. It blows the mind to think that this extends literally all the way from a jet airplane down almost to the fabric of the material world.
The epiphany for me though is when I studied a little bit of Kabbalah, which is of course demonized in the Bible as an "untrue" faith but Jewish Scholars who studied the Torah also studied this mystical tradition as well. It amazes me that (some) Jewish men, the fathers of one of the great Abrahamic traditions also studied this, which is much more akin to Eastern Religious thought.
The message, at its base is very simple, "God is love, and we are God".
Kabbalah talks about reincarnation, but in a different way. The premise is that God cast us into the mortal realm with a great ego, a great lust for things in the world - but the trick is this ego can never really be satisfied by more things.
Now why, you say would God decide to do such a cruel thing? Because also, inside of each of us is a bit of divine love, a spark - the hope that one day we might all live in peace and be at peace (with the divine). What you find is that when you are altruistic, when you are giving, when you are loving and compassionate in the way the creator is - you also get something, the ego is quenched.
A lot of people would be very hungry and happy for a steak dinner, if you are very hungry all you can think about that moment is the steak and how satisfying it will be to take that first bite; and it never stops - tomorrow it will be a new gadget, maybe a new car, maybe a book.. all of these things we lust after. You don't just order the SMALL steak right?, you get the 20oz. The first bite is pretty good, but after a while you start to realize that you are full, maybe you ordered too much steak and you may feel terrible - fat and bloated at the end.
But..if you think about giving a meal to a friend, the person who is preparing and hosting the meal isn't necessarily consuming anything but they ALSO get something in return - the pleasure of company, the friendship and comradeship. You instinctively know that you've loved someone the way creation does by filling both their stomach and their spirit..as well as yours. In the same way that the Earth provides for all of us. The ego is quenched.
So what? Well, for example - ego starts wars for the wrong reason.. Ego drives people who feel they have nothing to lose to perform desperate acts. Ego destroys lives through addiction.
The ultimate 12 step program, with no dogma, is built into every human being. Healing is available to ALL people, no guilt, no shame - no loud evangelizing - it can be as simple as just silent intention, gratitude, healing and love..that is the power of divine.
It's a very powerful concept, until I read about this I didn't realize just how much I had surrounded myself with all sorts of media that reinforce that thought.
From a practical standpoint I was tired of being alone spiritually, I wanted to find a community, but I didn't want to be told "What you believe is wrong, but don't worry- we'll FIX you" as soon as I walked in the door. After searching for a long time I finally settled on the Unitarian church, it was the most "disorganized" organized religion I could find. In my mind that is good. The buck stops with the congregation, we use the democratic process and there isn't a tremendous amount of overhead in organizational control.
Each person finds God, or relates to the world in their own way, some people see God in the face of a baby or in the faces of others when the do kind works, some people see a tree grow or a flower and decide that there is physical beauty all around them that they can see with their own eyes and that is good enough.
This is the way I feel about it, and you may disagree but I respect that right, I know I don't have a monopoly on the truth but I hope that the common denominator is LOVE.
To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.
--William Blake
Propaganda:
http://www.perceivingreality.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mFRUGDY8Ao
Last edited by elian; Aug 6, 2011 at 10:11 AM.
I am a little confused about what you mean by Gnostic... does that mean you subscribe to the old Gnostic Gospels? The old time Gnostics believed that everything physical was bad and all things spiritual were good... some even believed that Jesus had no real physical body. I am pretty sure that is not what you mean...
Well, I agree with what Jesus taught, but I am more drawn to the idea that knowledge should be sought out, not handed down just because "that's the way we've always done it". That is the aspect of Gnostic thought that I remember and identify with. Right now I'm still clinging to the idea that there is a much more subtle, powerful underlying (universal?) energy that I happen to think of as female and another more chaotic (demiurge) energy that I happen to think of as male. Not that either one is bad, they both have their place.
In the end, we may all be light - but for right now obviously that is not the case, there is much learning still to be done.
I probably shouldn't have put a label out there because I do draw inspiration from a lot of different places. I know that would drive some people crazy..but my sexuality is diverse, nature is diverse, so my feeling is that spirituality can be diverse as well. I think that if there is an intelligent, omnipotent God the divine is wise enough to appear to each person in the way that they would best understand.
It's funny, people think what they fear is not having power, but I wonder sometimes if what they really fear is when they DO have power...at least those of us who are not psychotic megalomaniacs.
"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it."
"Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many."
"Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books."
"Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. "
"Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. "
"But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." --Kalama Sutta
Last edited by elian; Aug 6, 2011 at 10:23 AM.
Common sense and logic tells me that I should be an athiest. I too was raised a methodist although I have never believed strongly. As I grew into my twenties what religious belief I had evaporated as I learned more of the world and our universe.
I have never entirely ditched the possibility that a God exists but if he does, I very much doubt that he bears any resemblance to anything we can envisage. Influences outside of church and the religious environment which was once around me have served only to push me farther away from belief in God. Influences within the church, of whatever denomination have only served to do likewise.
To be honest, I dont care if God exists or not. So diverse are the differences we find throughout humanity, not everyone can be right about God. There are so many ancient revelations in so many religions and doctrine varies so much, that it is inconceivable to my mind that any or all are right. Even within the religion in which I was raised, there are fundamental differences which I am unable to reconcile either with my own sense of morality and decency and the faith which for some years held a tenuous grasp on my soul.
I try to be a nice human being within the emotional and psychological constraints put on me by the belief system in which I was raised and the society to which I belong. It is more important to me that I be decent within the constraints put on me by my own free will and sense of self. That I do have free will, and an independence of thought have made me stray quite far from what both society and the church would accept as right and proper. My very being has determined that to some degree because I am not a nice heterosexual girl with aspiration for husband and family.
It may be wrong of me but I articulate my own beliefs in accord with what my own sense of self tells me. So while I do adhere to some of the beliefs which both society and the church taught me is the same as anyone else. But my own independence of thought and sense of self makes me and has made me go my own way.
God does not figure much in my plans and I doubt he ever will. Fran, who many of you will know says that man created God in his own image. She has written that in forums more than once and to my mind it is at least as good an explanation for God as any other and if there is no God she is right. But whereas she would say without fear that there is no God, I simply don't know, and just don't care.
Not having faith in God or Christ doesn't leave hole in my soul, if I have one, and it doesnt make me a worse person for it. It does mean that I have a freedom to think and act outwith constraints of a belief system which means nothing to me. Some religious people think that wrong and selfish. I just take it as part of me being me.
1) yes http://www.biblegateway.com/
"To love someone deeply gives you strength. Being loved by someone deeply gives you courage." -Lao Tzu
Elian, if you started a church, I'd attend it!
You've made more sense, in a few paragraphs, than any religious leader I've ever heard!
<blushes> well, I'm not perfect by any means. I aspire to be patient and kind but there are days when my faith is shaken to the core, I second guess myself, I get angry, lose patience, depression kicks in and all sorts of things - that is why I am thankful to have good friends such as the people on this site.
I for one am surprised at the number of positive replies ITT.
That said, religious and bi here, too. Ethnic Catholic but with unitarian views :p
Re: Religious Bisexuals
Yes HE was wise enough to appear in a way that I could understand; that's how He is; simultaneously subtle & profound; Jesus was what HE claimed to be! HE told me that "he lives in the souls of all men."
FIRE IN THE BELLY
Haven't kept track of mine -- seems like 5th -- in three different countries who celebrate it differently. Strange to be in the States on Ramadan, though.
Two words -- Ramadan Kareem!
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." The Little Prince, Antoine de Saint Exupery:wiggle2:
Thanks for the URL of online bible(s).
In curiosity, I searched for sodomy (using Jobelrocks suggestion "....Well I find in most Bibles there are little titles before sections......")
Genesis 19:5-8
New International Version (NIV)
5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”
Comment here
1) Did the idiot Lot ask the men if they fancied a bit of bum nooky? Maybe they were up for it and he was just being a killjoy. Maybe he was being territorial.
2) One is subsequently impressed by his willingness to suggest 'Fuck my children instead - please!' Were they going to be bum fucked? And did he asked them whether they wanted it?
3) And God is supposed to have saved this morally deficiant moron?
Pagan and proud.
Hephaestion, with respect to Sodom and Gomorrah -
My understanding of this culture and some other tribal cultures is that hospitality is everything. but like a lot of people in this day and age the people of Sodom did not want to share their wealth.
Lot was actually the only person in town who showed "hospitality" to this group of strangers. The other people in town didn't like that very much, the people in town wanted to rape the guests in Lot's house to humiliate them.
Supposedly it was a test from the Lord and as a result the strangers revealed themselves to be angels of the Lord and directed Lot to leave the city with his family before God nuked it (hence the pillar of salt).
It is a parable for the result of what happens when we do not show kindness and share our wealth with strangers. The story uses rape to make a point - is not about the type of loving same sex relationship we might have today - or the innate feelings that a person might have regarding their gender and sexuality.
I can highly recommend the movie "For the Bible Tells Me So" - it has some great segments w/interpretations of the Bible that you might not hear in other places.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBR0dq0XXk (http://www.forthebibletellsmeso.org/index2.htm)
Here are some clips - I could not get the time coding for youtube to work (to clip the end of a video) but it will at least start at what I feel are relevant points..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt37RfJFyEk#t=6m17s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkEXqEQ4xaY#t=3m06s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZUlTs4-PQY#t=1m18s
After all of this, I SHOULD also say that I know that there are many loving, compassionate Christians who do their best to live out their faith by living the principles that Jesus taught. I hope together we can build a bridge, because we NEED a bridge, more than we need two separate hurting groups of people (LGBT vs. not).
Last edited by elian; Aug 7, 2011 at 11:32 AM.
I'm inclined to agree w/u about the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah according to a recent History Channel segment which suggested God was most angry because of how twin cities treated their poor.
FIRE IN THE BELLY
Re: Religious Bisexuals
think I saw that bridge this week-end in the eyes of one of the most beautiful toddlers I have ever seen! innocent, trusting , full of love; made me love God because of the beauty of HIS creation; what did Jesus say about the faith of a child?
FIRE IN THE BELLY
Parable or not, offering one's kids to 'rapists' is just not cricket.
Really? I like it much better here. There's no social pressure to fast here; quite the opposite. Only sincere intention carries you through. When a religion dominates a society, it breed hypocrisy and becomes dysfunctional. I came to dislike Ramadan in Egypt and only now am reconnecting with my faith.
Ramadan Mubarak!
Cheers
Atiq
.................................................. .................................................. ........
I'll decide between men and women the day you decide between food and oxygen.
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