I barred two members today

[Brian]

The site owners and I had a Board Meeting today, in our underwear, over coffee, and voted two people off the island. The vote was 1 - 0 in both cases for booting. The members were The Bisexual Virgin and Aeonpax.

Honestly, I am not sure I did the right thing but it is done and is permanent unless I have a complete about face and come to the conclusion I was very wrong. It was a very tough decision. I don't want the site to become too "cliquey" - I want it to be a forum for ideas, even unpopular ones. But eventually the accumulation of them telling other members of the site over and over they aren't really bisexual was too much.

Here is the definition of bisexual:
A person who has attractions to both genders.

That is the definition the world uses. That is the definition that is the basis of the site.

You can think of the site as: bisexual.com == a-person-who-has-attractions-to-both-genders.com

Non-bisexuals (people who are completely straight or completely gay) are welcome on the site of course, but science deniers, and those who advocate to re-write the definition of bisexual, are not particularly welcome.

If you disagree with my decision, then feel free to let me know. It was a very tough decision. I will continue to work hard to try to make sure the site does not become too cliquey and all people are welcome.

- Drew

[DuckiesDarling]

Just hands Drew another cup of coffee and pretends not to notice underwear.

[Jobelorocks]

Thank you Drew. Honestly it was about time something was done about their behavior. I am fine with people disagreeing, but they took things way too far.

[outintheworld]

I agree with your decision on Virgin, not so much with Aeon. I think there are even more foul creatures more deserving. Appears some can't realize that sock puppets run amok in the forum and a Diamond ______ (fill in the blank) is the puppet master. There is where most of the discourse lies.




EDIT: Since they are barred, would you kindly deactivate their personal ads completely. For example: Aeon has personal pics in hers that people should no longer have access to. It's just a respect thing for me.

[csrakate]

I agree with your decision on Virgin, not so much with Aeon. I think there are even more foul creatures more deserving. Appears some can't realize that sock puppets run amok in the forum and a Diamond ______ (fill in the blank) is the puppet master. There is where most of the discourse lies.

I have always suspected this....as have many others. As for the member bans, you have the right to do as you must, Drew. There comes a time when a member's behavior must be met with consequences and when said behavior attacks the very mission of a site, it must be dealt with harshly.

[tenni]

I agree with your decision. As a bisexual man who has viewpoints that differ from others I understand the difficulty. The biphobia aspect needs to be discussed. Some posters repeated that accusation a bit too much but it was true imo.

I'm saddened for BV if she is genuine in her beliefs but they did seem too much.

Any pictures of the Board meeting?...in underwear...lol ..uh....purely for historical reasons..

[slipnslide]

Drew - Can I get barred too please? This place is overrun with idiots so I have no interest in participating. You clearly don't want this to be a forum for smart people.

As a dramatic end. . .I'd like to get banned. Thanks.

[blugirl789]

i can understand the decision being a difficult one, considering you want this to be a place where ppl are comfortable sharing their perspectives and opinions. for this community, it was a good one. i see this as a safe haven for bisexuals to freely express themselves and embrace their sexuality in an outlet not possible in the tangible world. there is enough criticism and judgement against bisexuality. why would it exist here? seems silly. if ppl enjoy debating, there are plenty of topics to delve into. the argument whether someone is bisexual or not definitely does not belong here.

[slipnslide]

for this community, it was a good one. i see this as a safe haven for bisexuals to freely express themselves and embrace their sexuality in an outlet not possible in the tangible world. there is enough criticism and judgement against bisexuality. why would it exist here?

This is a ridiculously immature opinion. The biggest problem with this forum, the reason it fails, is because of its polarization. This forum is simply people who think that if they share a common delusion, that makes it's normal or healthy.

What you've said above is "I want a forum free from reality". Criticism and judgement are reality.

This forum suffers from all the same group-think issues that affect conservative politics.

You can't take the hardcore idiots like Tenni, Drugstore Cowboy, ExSailor/MelissaPDX and suggest to me that they've contributed a single valuable piece to this forum in all their time here. They're just here to have their delusions confirmed rather than challenged. This is why I'm waiting to get banned.

[outintheworld]

ahhh Slip, You managed to name 3 puppets. But there are more. I have watched this forum long enough to know.

[blugirl789]

i hope you don't get banned. i enjoy being challenged. as long as it's intelligent. lol.

i'd be happy with a forum of a different reality, not free from it.

[tenni]

Slippy
I've been a member since around July 2006 (first as artjock). I'm no sock puppet. I know some of your views. Your sexual behaviour is your choice. If you want to get banned would you please slur someone else.

[Vuillardgr]

This is a ridiculously immature opinion. The biggest problem with this forum, the reason it fails, is because of its polarization. This forum is simply people who think that if they share a common delusion, that makes it's normal or healthy.

What you've said above is "I want a forum free from reality". Criticism and judgement are reality.

This forum suffers from all the same group-think issues that affect conservative politics.

You can't take the hardcore idiots like Tenni, Drugstore Cowboy, ExSailor/MelissaPDX and suggest to me that they've contributed a single valuable piece to this forum in all their time here. They're just here to have their delusions confirmed rather than challenged. This is why I'm waiting to get banned.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I understand why Bi Virgin was banned, I suggested to her a couple of times that she should tone down her rhetoric. It was far to extreme and unfounded. Yet there are others here that go after people who challenge their point of view. The attacks go on and on. As soon as it becomes clear that challengers won't back down, they are told to go elsewhere, the are biphobic, ignorant, backward, etc. etc. It doesn't matter how long someone has been a member, if this site is for all who wish to share ideas and offer support, then the vicious attacks need to be addressed. If this site is to help those that seek it, attempts to railroad people off of this site shouldn't be tolerated. There is a huge issue of a select few strong arming others who don't fall in line with their way of thinking.

[blugirl789]

drew said they were barred because "eventually the accumulation of them telling other members of the site over and over they aren't really bisexual was too much". why would someone who is bisexual do that to others on a bisexual website? that's just odd. as for comparing maturity, slipnslide, you are lacking in it as you throw a tantrum on this thread about wanting to get banned. just disappear if you feel that way. i liked aeon. i'm sad to see her go. but if ppl felt she was continually attacking a man's bisexuality, then for the community, it was probably for the best.

[falcondfw]

Drew,
I know this was a tough decision for you. I have run dating sites in the past (not that this is a dating site) where a few members just would rip into anybody, especially newbies, for the tiniest, implied slight. I had to ban them there. Very hard to do, because you want your site to grow and prosper. But think of it this way. Those two disagreed vehemently with most other members on most anything they could find that didn't fit their narrow definition of reality. They scared off new members. If by banning those two, you gain 100 new members who are no longer scared off, haven't you achieved your growth goals?
Telling people they are not bisexual, when they come here because they feel they are is just plain stupid, without getting to know them first.
I am not naive enough to think we all have to pull a Rodney King ("can't we all just get along?), but there is a right way and a wrong way to disagree with and debate others. I try to follow these rules (I don't always succeed).

1. Debate the ideas, not the person.
2. Never personally attack someone, unless they insistently attack you personally. Defend yourself, but try not to attack personally.
3. However tempting, try not to use sarcasm in a debate, unless it is very obviously sarcasm. Sarcasm does not translate well over the flat internet medium.
4. ALWAYS make a new person feel welcome, unless they are an obvious troll. You never know. You may be meeting your new best friend for life.
5. EVERYONE has a right to their viewpoint, whether you agree or disagree with it.
6. There is enough cutting people down and making them feel bad in the real world. People don't need that kind of crap online too.

Just my two cents.

[darkeyes]

So be it. I came back from shopping saw this thread opened it and and was dumbfounded.. I have always said that I do not like barring people.. the lgbt is mature enough to take dissent and debate or it is not.. it seems that the owner of the site feels that the dissent sewn, if that is the right word by two members is too much to bear... if members were deserving of being banned there were and are far more deserving cases but I would defend them also even although I loathe so much of their opinions and their manner of debate

In the case of bisexual virgin csrakate said this.

NO SHIT!!!!!! I have to wonder....do you feel the same way about bisexual women? Seems odd to me that you can't have a modicum of empathy towards bisexual men and yet you call yourself bisexual.

I have the greatest love and respect for Kate, my Mumsie, but this was an unwise respose to a girl with a problem.. her problem? Bisexual men.. the reply Kate gave was in response to BV admitting she had a problem.. correct me if I am wrong but do we disown and boot into touch people with alcohol or drug problems? the first step to recovery is admitting we have a problem.. and this BV has done. This site in large part was set up I thought was to help people come to grips with their problems and come to terms with the prejudices of others and with their own.. obviously I was wrong... and so a girl who has a problem is kicked out and left to sink.. of course there are oother places to go where she can come to terms with her problem.. but by booting her from this site what has been done is her prejudice against bisexual men has not been helped but is more llikely to have been exacerbated... it is after all a bisexual man man who has taken the decision. I hope you are all pleased because I think what has been shown here is an appalling lack of compassion and tolerance for someone with a problem.. and I hold my hands up.. I have been as irritated as most everyone else with her and could and should have dealt with her diifferently.. but I would never have dreamt of complaining about her to the owner and certainly not of demanding she be expelled from membership..

æonpax is a whole different kettle of fish.. and she has a style which is even more abrasive and sometimes intolerant of any opposition and argument.. I thought I was her friend and she ended that quite suddenly, curtly and unpleasantly, but that does not stop me both having affection and respect for her as an independent free thinker because I am big enough to take the decisions of others about me and about the things in which I believe... when I was a child I used to run to my elder brother and have him sort out my troubles.. even into my middle 20s I could be easily freaked and break down in tears even on this site by aggro and hassle. This site and the people on helped me grow up and begin to be much less sensitive and to stand my ground and argue back without curling up into a little ball.. it seesm the site has yet to learn to stand on its own two feet without doing that...æonpax could be insulting and offensive, argued and acted in ways which made me wince, but she was not and is not any of the things she was accused of being.. I did not and do not agree with much of her writing and of decisions she made for her own life.. but neither do I believe she was deserving of such high handed expulsion.. she made people think.. and grasp.. and gasp.. and love her or hate her she had.. has value if only for that..

We debate or we do not... this is a free and open site or it is not... Drew has shut down threads before now because he felt they got out of hand and I have argued about that because I do not like curtailment of debate or censorship... we have freedom of speech or we do not, and it is not up to us because of our sensitivities to censor or end the right of people to speak freely about the things in which they believe.. the site owner is not normally heavy handed yet does have the occasional rush of blood to the head.. he owns the site and he can do what he likes.. but that does not make it right..æonpax suffers when others, at least equally responsible for one thread going on far too long and ending up going round in circles.. yet it was not she who stalked them around other threads which had nothing to do with the issue of that mess of a thread and ranted and made exactly the dame points repeatedly they made on that one thread..

Let me make this clear.. it is not that they are women u argue this.. allthough some will think that to be the case... I argued when several men, tenni being one, was banned that he should not have been, and I would argue about Ian bortwhick, Drugstore Cowboy et all should it ever happen to them.. even although we are poles apart and some of those others are among the most destructive debaters on site.

I ask Drew to reconsider.. implore him. We all see people differently, God knows I certainly do... this isn't a threat, merely a sad statement of something I will regret but feel I am forced into doing, but I too will have to reconsider my participation on this site because quite simply it has lost its heart. It has meant much to me.. but today's developments are too much for me to bear..

[DuckiesDarling]

Fran, I love you but if you are going, then please just go without the fanfare of the last few times you posted the same. There is a time for talk there is a time for action and this was Drew's time for action, we tried over and over to tell her that the ideas BV was espousing were not accurate for all men yet she ignored us and continued denying even the possibility of bisexuality in men.

Aeon was another issue, she was abrasive but at times she was crossing the line defending herself. Several others could be banned at any time for doing the same but it was the repeated pattern that set the precedent of Drew creating a thread to explain. He doesn't owe us any explanations, it is his site and all are welcome here but there are rules for a reason and contined flauting of those rules should always be dealt with forcefully otherwise it allows others to think they can do the same. It has already gotten to the point that people have slowed down posting on here. Why? Because of two banned and a few others that continually look for a fight no matter what is posted. There are certain posters who can't even let someone post a "the sky is a lovely shade of blue" without arguing that it isn't really blue at all. Those people know exactly who I speak of.. yet they call it debating ROFLMAO. Someone needs to go back to debate school and learn the proper way to disagree with someone not just saying "you're wrong" that just invites an argument, but then again.. those posters just look for one, now don't they?

And don't take this the wrong way, Fran, like I said I love you dearly but I have heard the same song and dance way too many times. I'll miss you if you go but if you want to do so that's your choice, no one is making the decision for you.

[sck1943]

I am an older guy who checks out the site daily and sure enjoyed Aeonpax for both her comments and also her pictures. Never contacted her as our age differences made me feel that it was not the right thing to do. I have never heard of this being done before but it isn't my site.

[falcondfw]

Fran,
If you decide to go, it will be a sad day. We disagree on so much, and once in a blue moon our discussions have gotten "out of hand". But for the most part, we disagree civilly and it is fun to have an exchange of ideas and debate the merits of both, even though we know we will never change each others' mind.
That being said, I think you are dead wrong about aeon. She was beyond offensive and attacked almost everyone she met personally, instead of debating the ideas. Further, for her to tell people on their first day here that they are "not really bisexual" crosses the line and scares people away. This is not the aeon believers club. It is a site for ALL bisexuals, and I would dare say, other sexuals, as well. Aeon never respected that and she made sure everyone knew that she felt if they did not follow the same path as her, they did not belong here. That is wrong. It is not her site. It is Drew's.
As for BiVirgin, I really cannot say, because I never had that much interaction with her. Although I did read posts that she made on threads, nothing really sticks out in my mind. So, I did not personally see the behavior Drew is referring to. But if she did the same thing as Aeon, then she was just as wrong.
Banning people is never easy as a site owner (for most people). You want your site to grow. You want to create that feeling of community. However, there comes a time when you have to weigh those few bad apples with the number of potentially new members they are scaring off. Inclusiveness does not mean blindness.
Fran, if you go, I will miss you and wish you all the best in everything you do. The world is a more interesting place because you are in it.

[darkeyes]

[QUOTE=DuckiesDarling;236873

And don't take this the wrong way, Fran, like I said I love you dearly but I have heard the same song and dance way too many times. I'll miss you if you go but if you want to do so that's your choice, no one is making the decision for you.[/QUOTE]
We are talking principle.. not emotion or piss offedness... and principle.. if I say it I mean it... and it happens

[by~his~side]

Kudos Drew. I see a job well done.
Play nice or be banned.
Why is that so hard to understand?

I'm certain that folks like BV and aeonpax conduct themselves in a similiar manner in their real worlds. It's their personalities.
Abrasive, overbearing and harsh aren't the most desirable traits.
Seeing themselves on the outside looking in is probably something they are used to.
Live and learn.
Or get used to being banned.

~D~

[bityme]

This is a ridiculously immature opinion. The biggest problem with this forum, the reason it fails, is because of its polarization. This forum is simply people who think that if they share a common delusion, that makes it's normal or healthy.

What you've said above is "I want a forum free from reality". Criticism and judgement are reality.

This forum suffers from all the same group-think issues that affect conservative politics.

You can't take the hardcore idiots like Tenni, Drugstore Cowboy, ExSailor/MelissaPDX and suggest to me that they've contributed a single valuable piece to this forum in all their time here. They're just here to have their delusions confirmed rather than challenged. This is why I'm waiting to get banned.

I can't agree that the forum has failed. There has, however, been the development of some polarization which I think is because when faced with a personal attack many feel compelled to respond and the contention between points of view and individuals escalates.

Are you saying that you believe bisexuality is a "common delusion" shared by those who profess it? If so, can't the same be said of heterosexuality or homosexuality? I find it interesting that you would classify human interaction as a delusion that others perceive as natural and is also found in other species that lack the ability to communicate with humans (often referred to as less intelligent).

While criticism and judgment are indeed a reality, they are often destructive rather than productive. Open discussion and respect for another's opinions, even those diametrically opposed to our own, are much more productive and promote greater understanding.

There are many things in life that varying portions of the population find undesirable, offensive or repugnant, but to deny their existence or label them a delusion does not mean they aren't real. Certainly, there can be a difference of opinion as to whether or not a sexual orientation is normal/healthy or not. It strikes me, however, that such discussion would be best when directed at certain practices, not necessarily the orientation as a whole. If both heterosexuality and homosexuality is viewed as normal and healthy, shouldn't bisexuality also be? Yet within any orientation, a practice that one views as injurious to others will always be susceptible to the criticisms of being abnormal or unhealthy (e.g., pedophilia).

There is a great difference between challenging one's intellect by engaging in thought provoking discussions and challenging the individual in the sense of creating a confrontation by denying the existence of or their right to have a viewpoint different than your own.

Hopefully, Drew's action will lessen confrontations between individuals and promote greater understanding and exchange of ideas,

Pappy

[slipnslide]

...but I too will have to reconsider my participation on this site because quite simply it has lost its heart. It has meant much to me.. but today's developments are too much for me to bear..

Maybe we need to move on and create the type of forum we want somewhere else

[gen11]

Several things: Drew, I admire you for the manner in which you notified the members. I have opinions about the appropriateness of choices made and not made, but they're irrelevant, personal, and won't be seen here.

Second: One person's "delusion" is another person's "fact" -- and sometimes, the World's fact. Cuts both ways, of course.

Third: Drew: Would you consider banning for having diarrhea of the keyboard here?

[gen11]

Drew: I just realized that you have to actually read all the drivel that's posted here -- my condolences.

[SJMurph]

Drew:

Thanks for the opportunity to hang out on your website, chat, read and share ideas with others who are likewise interested in the same. I think this website is well organized, well thought out, and well managed. I think you set the conditions to proved a greater service to people in this community, and opened the door for many people, here, to express themselves where they otherwise could not. I hope you can continue to do great work.

With that said, I also wish to be banned from the site along with Aeonpax.

I've read "every" and "all" postings by Aeonpax, and find her to be articulate, bright, insightful, well reasoned, and researched. Her opinion is her own opinion and I think she had a right to express herself just as exsailor, drug store cowboy, gearbox, tenni, et. al.. The problem for those who find her offensive is that she voices opinions that are provocative; and, she is quick witted, well read, articulate and she is tenacious. Her tenacity to defend her opinion deserves nothing but meritorious praise as she sticks by her guns and adjusts her arguments to the counter arguments. Her dynamic ability to provoke was demonstrated by her compelling an, otherwise, thin threaded statement, into 17 pages of debate. This is not a frail, confused, whimsical, lost girl with an identity crisis, rather, this is a smart, articulate and empowered female who is not afraid to take on tough debate in a tough forum. She was able to easily string along a thread in the face of very harsh criticism from some very strong personalities. I respect her, not so much for her agility to masterfully compel those to continue to banter the points, but she didn't back down and break.

Joan takes her arguments well beyond the bedroom sexual banter of the "chatroom" and into what she sees as bisexual intellectual enlightenment. She wasn't arguing against any one person, or anyone's identity, rather, she was arguing and making a statement against the intellectually lazy and stupid. Joan spits hairs and definitions, not to antagonize and humiliate, but rather, to get at the heart of the other person's position and their core argument. Moreover, she doesn't dislike bisexual men; Joan likes debate, and she likes men and women that can formulate clear, concise and well reasoned arguments.

Joan hit the nail square on the head when she identified Exsailor, Drug Store Cowboy and a few others as misogynistic. Their harsh criticism of her and her position was far less about her position, than it was the fact she is not afraid of them, and demonstratively, she refused to back down from intimidation. These men's contempt is rooted in the fact that they know Joan doesn't respect them as individuals, nor does she respect their intellect. Their response is to dismiss her argument, and clamor around the idea that she hates and is afraid of bisexual men, rather than address their own belligerency. Joan made a broad statement about an idea, and not an individual; their only response to quell the argument was to turn it on her personally.

The smartest person in the room, isn't the first person who shoots up a knee jerk reaction and starts calling me names, disparaging me, and dismissing my statements; rather, its the person who will go back and read "every" and "all" the posts by AeonPax/Joan, then formulate a well reasoned and articulate response. I fully expect to be disparaged and dismissed by the above named individuals, but thats acceptable.


I want to thank and say thanks to some very good people I've met on this web site:

Peg, Jorja, Shyguy, Showme, Aut17, Volduger, Beefeater, Dark Eyes, AeonPax, Bluegirl789, and many others.

-- SJMurph

[welickit]

We found that the ignore list works. If people are that upset just add them to your ignore list. When nobody listens to them anymore they will go away.

[blugirl789]

Drew:

Thanks for the opportunity to hang out on your website, chat, read and share ideas with others who are likewise interested in the same. I think this website is well organized, well thought out, and well managed. I think you set the conditions to proved a greater service to people in this community, and opened the door for many people, here, to express themselves where they otherwise could not. I hope you can continue to do great work.

With that said, I also wish to be banned from the site along with Aeonpax.

I've read "every" and "all" postings by Aeonpax, and find her to be articulate, bright, insightful, well reasoned, and researched. Her opinion is her own opinion and I think she had a right to express herself just as exsailor, drug store cowboy, gearbox, tenni, et. al.. The problem for those who find her offensive is that she voices opinions that are provocative; and, she is quick witted, well read, articulate and she is tenacious. Her tenacity to defend her opinion deserves nothing but meritorious praise as she sticks by her guns and adjusts her arguments to the counter arguments. Her dynamic ability to provoke was demonstrated by her compelling an, otherwise, thin threaded statement, into 17 pages of debate. This is not a frail, confused, whimsical, lost girl with an identity crisis, rather, this is a smart, articulate and empowered female who is not afraid to take on tough debate in a tough forum. She was able to easily string along a thread in the face of very harsh criticism from some very strong personalities. I respect her, not so much for her agility to masterfully compel those to continue to banter the points, but she didn't back down and break.

Joan takes her arguments well beyond the bedroom sexual banter of the "chatroom" and into what she sees as bisexual intellectual enlightenment. She wasn't arguing against any one person, or anyone's identity, rather, she was arguing and making a statement against the intellectually lazy and stupid. Joan spits hairs and definitions, not to antagonize and humiliate, but rather, to get at the heart of the other person's position and their core argument. Moreover, she doesn't dislike bisexual men; Joan likes debate, and she likes men and women that can formulate clear, concise and well reasoned arguments.

Joan hit the nail square on the head when she identified Exsailor, Drug Store Cowboy and a few others as misogynistic. Their harsh criticism of her and her position was far less about her position, than it was the fact she is not afraid of them, and demonstratively, she refused to back down from intimidation. These men's contempt is rooted in the fact that they know Joan doesn't respect them as individuals, nor does she respect their intellect. Their response is to dismiss her argument, and clamor around the idea that she hates and is afraid of bisexual men, rather than address their own belligerency. Joan made a broad statement about an idea, and not an individual; their only response to quell the argument was to turn it on her personally.

The smartest person in the room, isn't the first person who shoots up a knee jerk reaction and starts calling me names, disparaging me, and dismissing my statements; rather, its the person who will go back and read "every" and "all" the posts by AeonPax/Joan, then formulate a well reasoned and articulate response. I fully expect to be disparaged and dismissed by the above named individuals, but thats acceptable.


I want to thank and say thanks to some very good people I've met on this web site:

Peg, Jorja, Shyguy, Showme, Aut17, Volduger, Beefeater, Dark Eyes, AeonPax, Bluegirl789, and many others.

-- SJMurph

well said!! please message me your email so that we may stay in contact.

[outintheworld]

Just curious. Is it a ban on just username/password/email.... Or IP address... Or Hardware Identification??.... Because the first one just allows new name, new email, new password to be created. Therefor a new account. That's is how so many sockpuppets of Diamond_______ (Fill in the blank) are still roaming around. He feels so snug as a bug here that he accuses others of being trolls. It's almost amusing.

[Gearbox]

Well it's sad and tragic, but hardly surprising. Two fine outstanding ladies cut loose into cyberland sea of iniquity, out there spreading their wisdom, like that bloke in The Watermargin.
They could be on a Catholic.com site right now, BiVirg posting that they are realy closet athiests, and Aeon posting that she's veying off from male Catholics as they are riddled with syph & leprosy etc.
It was Kane or something. Bald bloke! big stick.