I'm a bi male pagan :DOriginally Posted by Azrael
I'm a bi male pagan :D
I believe that all mammals are inherently bisexual to one degree or another. Many of the greatest learned cultures in history accepted it. So... When did it suddenly become so wrong?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Midsouth_Bisexual_Guys_Support_Group/
Funny, some might say something similar when referring to having to read the posts of someone who has nothing nice to say.
If logging into Bisexual.com makes you heave, by all means, please refrain from logging in
To express agreement or disagreement with what the writer has written would be a fundamental part of the forum feature, and would likely be welcome by many here.
To simply attack someone based solely on their looks reflects a shallow, self-centered, and ignorant mind.
Please feel free to read the Posting Rules that are displayed above the text window one types in every single time one prepares a post. To make it easier on you, I'll list the rule the seems most pertinent to you:
2. Be polite - flame the idea if you feel you must, but not the person.
I believe that all mammals are inherently bisexual to one degree or another. Many of the greatest learned cultures in history accepted it. So... When did it suddenly become so wrong?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Midsouth_Bisexual_Guys_Support_Group/
I particularly noticed that with Satanists, a lot of them, including men, are bi.
I'm sort of bi. I will never think about a relationship with a guy (for me they're just for fun).
I'd like to point out that saying that only christians are traditionals and conservatives is wrong. I am an egyptian recon (not to be confused with egyptian neo-pagan as recons practice the true egyptian religion not the wicca with egyptian gods) so i am not a pagan in that sense of the word. I am also very conservative as the egyptians were.
The fundamental difference between recons and neo-pagans is that recons are generally a lot better educated, and are much more conservative. There is quite a bit of resentment between the two groups recons agree that wiccans give polytheists a bad name a word for them is "fluffy bunnies" reffering to how theyre so open minded they believe in fairies and the most outlandish things while wiccans call recons "elitists". Anyway to generalize that about conservatives is not correct at all.
Also I consider christians to be far from traditional. Personally i respect (by respect i mean:consider them to be true though alternate paths) only the religions who are traditional. The religions without men founders who were there since the beggining of time contrary to human invented religions like christianity. So christians are not very traditional.
I'm a deist. Sex is spiritual. Timeless. All you need is Love.
SpaZZ
Reverend, ULC
We're not confused about our sexuality... other people are!
I could only stand to read portions of your diatribe, as it was so misinformed, it was not worthy of the time.
Wiccans are NOT Pagans, to begin with. Wiccans are a breed of new age paganism that greatly loses a lot of traditional, Celtic witchcraft (kind of like "pagan lite". DO NOT consider your experience at a, what did you call it - WICCAN CHURCH (no such term, btw, witches gather together in covens), the same as a Kent, Celtic or Druid Pagan. *sigh*
Regardless, what is a "witchlet"? What kind of an ignorant slur is that? Are you a white trashlette? It's kind of the same thing to say... Dig?
Lastly, Pagans, Witches or Wiccans, do not consider themselve "outcasts". It is small minds like your own that tries to label us as such. I am out with my religion, and do not consider myself part of some sub-culture. Alternative and not mainstream for sure, but certainly not an outcast. lol
My dear, I shall pray to the Goddess for you. You are in need of some serious education and enlightenment for sure!
Bright blessings...
Re: What's With All These Kinky, Pagan Bisexuals?
From Kitten girl
Wiccans are NOT Pagans, to begin with.
Regardless, what is a "witchlet"? What kind of an ignorant slur is that? Are you a white trashlette? It's kind of the same thing to say... Dig?
Lastly, Pagans, Witches or Wiccans, do not consider themselve "outcasts". It is small minds like your own that tries to label us as such. I am out with my religion, and do not consider myself part of some sub-culture.
My dear, I shall pray to the Goddess for you. You are in need of some serious education and enlightenment for sure!
Bright blessings...[/QUOTE]
Pagan is a blanket term for a person who follows a path that is not considered one of the "major" world religions, i.e. Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Shintoism, Islam, Confucianism, Buddhism, etc.
White trashlet? Wow talk about a slur. A witchlet is a term for a new witch, a baby witch so to say some one early in their learning. It is an affectionate term really.
She was not saying that we all think we are outcasts, but society at large views us in this way, you are not a member of the greater society at large, well than you are an outcast. A subdefective.
I don't mean to get down on you but maybe you need to ask your Goddess for some common sense and not to be so critical of other people. Just because you do not agree does not make them wrong and you right, it just means you have a difference of opinion.
I personally see what she is saying, I was bi first but I am a homeschooling, pagan, former SCA fighter, who is Kinky, and still games.
Can you PLEASE remove that photo of the ugly guy in drag off the front page of bi.com? Do we have to get completely turned off every time we log on?
My name is Jon, I am the Features Article Editor here on bisexual.com. I should have done this much sooner, when your first insensitive and ridiculous comment was placed.
Shut up!
You don't find Dana attractive. Good for you. We don't care. I don't find you attractive because you are a rude and stupid person.
Dana wrote a great article that I was very pleased to present for the members of this website. And judging by how much conversation it has spawned (excepting your trash), it has been well-received!
So just go away. Your negative presence is not respected or desired. And if I see one more comment like this, I will have you banned.
BRAVO!!
go jon...lol
I have sat here and read many of the remarks about wicca.... and as a older timer ( 20 years + as a wiccan person ) I have finally decided to speak up about the wicca fighting going on in the article thread
ok wicca is not set in concrete.... its fuild, hence it takes many forms....
a wiccan church is not wrong.... in the same manner that a spiritual christian church is not wrong.....its just that people perceive it as wrong
the original wicca folk, never went to a coven,... coven is a witchcraft term....
modern wicca embraces the coven aspect in some places.....not all modern wicca groups do....
modern wicca groups are mainly Gardnerian Wicca ( 1950s onwards ) or gardnerian wicca ( 1960s onwards ) or the dianic wicca.... thats when the coven aspect become more popular than at any other time in the history of witchcraft and wicca....tho in some areas witch covens did exist for 100's of years
christianity blurred the lines between wicca and witchcraft.... to destroy them both....but wicca is not mentioned in the bible.....its referred to as witchcraft
modern wicca and witchcraft is far removed from the original wicca which was nature based and honoured the * gods * and * goddesses * of which there was over 130... hence rituals and ceremonies were not done as they would take so long to do,
now with olde wicca... the gods and goddesses were not viewed as higher beings.... they were viewed as teachers and guides that helped with life,
the celtic god and goddesses system, is the closest system to the wicca system
most olde wiccan folk were eclectic ( they walked alone ) hence there were not covens....and things like herbology, aromatherapy, natural healing etc etc are a big part of olde wicca..... things like spells etc, are modern wicca and witchcraft based
the term * witchlet * is a modern term....not a olde term.... witchcraft and wicca are seperate....
the term * warlock * is a witchcraft term and means * oathbreaker, liar or / and exile / outcast *... it was not a wiccan term...
the olde wicca folk are outcasts..... we don't go for the modern wiccan stuff and we avoid it like the plaque....... the modern wicca movement doesn't accept or embrace the olde ways....as it makes most of the modern ways, look like a laughable joke with all their rituals and ceremonies....
in the olde times... there was not time for rituals and ceremonies....and a interesting thing to note... the olde day started as dusk and ran til dusk the next day.....there was no midnight to herald the start of the day..... something that a lot of history books refer to as the basis for many of the stories about witchcraft....
druidism is actually the masculine aspect of olde wicca....lol.... as wicca is predominately feminine...and was for many, many years, until the structure was changed to put males in control lol
I come from a long and rich family history of olde wiccans...and its nearly impossible to find any info online or in books about olde wicca, as its handed down from person to person....( anybody that knows the history of scotland, will know that many of the books and scrolls and records were destroyed by the english )... I was taught by my grandmother and great grand mother....and i have in my possession, books and other bits and pieces that talk about olde wicca......
hence I don't fight over my wicca beliefs... regardless of what people say..... its a bit hard to argue against the written proof sitting on a book shelf.....
proof that in some cases, was written in the 1800's.....
and like I said, wicca is fuild, it is adaptable and changable and so many of the wiccan sites on the net and the books are written from personal opinion and ideas.....if people want witchlets and wiccan churchs.... so mote it be
The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands
Bottom line, "Wicca" is neopaganism, founded in the 1950's from Edward Gardner so by religious terms, still a VERY new religion. Though it is a structured religion, to use the name interchangeably with Witchcraft would be a mistruth. Wicca does not follow nor ascribe to many of the teachings of Celtic Witchcraft. To a true Pagan, it lacks much of the traditions that define the religion. Again, I won't bother to refute others comments here, as it does appear petty to argue their lack of knowledge and inaccuracies, but suffice to say that "wicca" and all its trappings, can only be defined as "Pagan lite". Certainly bearing of its own merit, as say, Scientology is to those who believe in it. We are chose our own path...
hence I don't argue with people lol but, you make one big mistake...
gerald gardener was the creator of modern wicca, NOT edward gardener
the writings of aleister crowley form the basis of much of modern wicca....aleister wrote the book * high magics aid * in 1946.... much of which would feature later on in modern wicca
aleister crowley is better known as the founder of the church of satan
gerald gardener was taught the foundations of what was to become modern wicca, when he joined a witchcraft coven in 1939 under aleister crowley
in 1951 gardener started his own coven....in 1954 he wrote the book * witchcraft today * and in 1959, wrote * the meaning of witchcraft *
gardnerian wicca has direct roots to the masonic movement, druidism, witchcraft, shamanism and other pagan factions....possibly including satanism
The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands
*yawn*
I stand corrected.(Shall I say "you win"? because I suspect that is what you are seeking, and rather than have to discuss this one more moment, are you happy if I just say "uncle"?) LMAO.
Honestly, I can't keep track of all of the new age wiccan things you folks are into and who founded what within the last 80 years. It's like keeping up with Britney Spears and K-whatever. Tedious, mindless, and completely without merit or substance.
Perhaps now you will allow this thread to return to the point of the message - though I strongly doubt it - lol.
Last edited by Kittengirl; Apr 23, 2007 at 2:05 AM.
Biguyinla,
What Jon said. You are not welcome here anymore.
- Drew
excuse you?? just because many of us are not "activists" does not mean we have nothing to contribute to the community.. matter of fact i take offense at this because your elitist attitude is exactly why there are so many divisions in our relationships with the rest of the non hetero world.
"To each monkey, it's own swing.." - old Latino Provberb
In reference to:
"The topic of this article/thread is not "Let's flame the writer". Instead of complaining about the lack of a new article, how bout writing one yourselves?
......Oh wait, that's right, you are not an activist or have anything to contribute to the community."
The context of the comment referenced above had nothing to do with elitism and everything to do with a comment from someone who had nothing to say about the article and everything about the appearance of the writer.
There are thousands of us who use various parts of this site who contribute to its whole. Every bit, whether large or small, contributes to the strength of the overall community, not only this online one, but other bisexual communities as well.
My husband and I are both pagans and both bi and we know a LOT of pagans, male and female. Every one of our pagan friends is bisexual except one male and one female, but they have even admitted that they are willing to experiment some day.
Then, we know a bunch of "outcasts" who are not really bisexual yet they like to tell people they are for attention...
It has taken me 20 years to find a happy relationship with both a man and a woman, it made me chuckle that I found them in exactly the space that the author of this article is speaking of an SCA(like) group, pagan individuals. I was bi before I joined these groups but one of the things that made me _stay_ with these groups where I dropped many of the other groups I was in over time was the accepting people. One of the things that I note is the fact that it has taken a great amount of work to make this threesome work!
I think the article was well written and thought out. However I would like to point out that personally I have been a bisexual male since I was a teenager and a Witch since I was in my mid twenties. I have to agree there are not as many openly bisexual or gay men as women in the Pagan community. I do wish there more. It would nice to just know some other male bisexual Pagans/Wiccans/Witches socially.
Re: What's With All These Kinky, Pagan Bisexuals?
I actually discovered I was bisexual by joining "outcast" groups.
My first religion was Wicca (none of my folks were particularly religious), but what really opened my eyes to who I am was the Church of the SubGenius (a religion disguised as a joke disguised as a religion).
Their philosophy pretty much is "Be yourself and fuck'em all if they don't like it." or to quote "Bob": "Fuck Them If They Can't Take A Joke."
Oh, and hi everybody.
I completely agree with your entire article. And yes I am Pagan as well.
As a straight guy interested in exploring my potential bisexuality within the BDSM scene, I have to say I often feel uncomfortable with the idea of expressing this to my other kinky male friends (let alone kinky male play partners). I sense a fair amount of male-homophobia somehow. I can't say why or how or where it's coming from. I just feel it in the air.
It's interesting because the women I know from the scene are HIGHLY encouraging of guys being bi. Yet still it somehow feels as though declaring myself as bisexual might change the nature of some of my relationships-- you'd think it wouldn't given the expected open-mindedness of such an alternative community as that of people who tie, beat, and bleed each other for pleasure.
I understand that maybe I'll be surprised if I actually take the step of being open about this aspect of myself. Or that there may well be many bi guys in the BDSM world who have felt differently about the attitudes of other guys towards their bisexuality. I'd welcome hearing from bi guys about just these types of experiences.
One thing I will say about the BDSM world is it really does make you feel comfortable opening yourself up to new things for the most part. People are so crazy kinky and weird in it that it's just like there's always someone who is sufficienlty weirder than you in category X that it makes you feel comfortable, if not boring, by comparison. Love it!
Thanks for reading!
Relegion, preacher's daughter or son are of a horny sort,but us at belive in nature are on to path--true path to joy.
Well...Well...Well. There is one organization of gay men not mentioned here: the Radical Faeries: an anarchistic dis-organization with no rules and no bosses (M or F) very similar to the Rainbow Family. Both are a real mix of folks. The Rainbow may have begun as ST8 but now is a polyglot mix.
The Radical Faeries began as Gay Male but now is a polyglot mix including a few Hermaphrodites even.
When two herms get together are they Bi?
About: male bisexuality....Many years age I got into body language and the psychotherapy of it. Read: Julius Fast's book BODY LANGUAGE (published around 1965 or 70) Chapter 7 is about sexual body language. Then I started looking ,cruising men in public and ordinary places. Lots of sexual body language!!!! But no takers for sex!!!!! I got wise fast and gave up on it. However for two years I tried offering sexual body language to every man I met. Some responded immediately. If they didn't respond immediately I did it the second time and they almost all responded. Except one: he responded the third time!. No Sex ever because they all were ST8 or so they told me. Then I quit the experiment because I got bored.
But my conclusion is that all men are Bi in the body but many have their mind-brain-set disconnected from their bodies desires.
Homophobia is an epidemic in US among men. Women are not so homophobic as men. "Cocksucker!" used to be a curseword used by men about men and was applied to men ONLY. Has any woman ever cursed another woman as "Clitlicker!" -???? How about other oldtimey curses used by men about men "Up your ass!" "Up your ass with a meat-hook!" (My, how our language has changed in 20 years!!!!!) But the childhood learning-teaching process still produces Homophobia. We still, many of us, have to get ourselves, individualy, out of these closets.
Ah--Buddha! We live in a world of Illusion.
Or To quote Pogo the possum (Walt Kelly's cartoon creation)...."We have met the enemy, and he is us."
Last comment: In 1967 all States in US had laws against male homosexuality. None had laws against lesbianism except Texas!
Crazy Owl...
If you're out and such an activist why don't you even have a picture of yourself on here?
Sexual politics and bisexual politics are so outdated and 1990s anyway.
I'm puzzled here. I wrote something back on April 28th that commented on a reply to something I did not originally write, and in my reply I stated "There are thousands of us who use various parts of this site who contribute to its whole. Every bit, whether large or small, contributes to the strength of the overall community, not only this online one, but other bisexual communities as well."
That was something I wrote that was in support of everyone and something I thought was positive. I wasn't pushing any sort of political thought there -- I was simply stating my support for this site and all it does for those who visit it.
As for why I don't have a picture here, since it's not mandatory, and I do not have an ad, I didn't feel I needed one. I visit this site to read forums, articles and check out some links I didn't know about anywhere else, but I decided long ago that I didn't want to post a personal.
First off, I"m gonna change a trend! Are you All ready, because your gonna get pissed!
The truth about bisexuality is coming to truth. It has ,more essence then a church. Fuck, nature itself confirms it. But I bet you fools don't know that. and you call yourself bisexual? Bisexual to what? Human? a rock has more sense. Do you know your symbol, or colors? No, of course not! Your a fool! igorene destorys and you know this, yet you apply it to your life. Insted of being wise as you think! The Bisexual symbol is to over laying upside down triangles, colors Blue and pink Purple in the middle is that beyond you?
The Gays know who they are and there kind,You know nothing. Your living off the fat of the land, Pleasure. A spin off from gays, Wrong! Wake up! You are of a creed of kingship. A nature of knowing. Is this why you question everything. Wake up, you fools! and I know! you hate being called a fool!, So see the truth. For Bisexuality is far more then a dick in your hand or a pussy against yours. Its your way. Nature left this for the leadership. Is this why your resected? See if I'm lieing, look in history and you'll see the greatest leaders were bi, not gay. Wake up! Because of bisexual is intelligents, there decreeet., cool!, Power is in unity, thats cool too! Where is unity in igorence?>Your power is in decrection!
that is so true in the pagan religion we believe that there is nothing wrong with m/m/f/f/m/f or evve m/f/m its just they think that it will corupt thier perfect lil world so more power to you
Limited Debates: Gender Roles in Western Society
Firstly, denoting previous arguments in respect to the bisexuality and pagan ideology as a sociological debate, whereby concluding gender, and gender roles in a given society or culture. Society defines the normative behavior between gender, and gender roles, thus including sexuality, whereby labeling bi-sexuality as ante social behavior. Secondly, arguing pagan, religion into the dialogue of bisexuality behavior is not conclusive in the prior debates; should be more refined or broad in its scope. Notwithstanding, history which has stood the test of time, in this scope bi sexuality was a normative behavior in many cultures. However, in today’s society bisexuality, construed as ante social behavior, hence labeling, and deviance. In sum, it is a very controversial debate, and worthy of deliberation, in Western culture.
Thesis-1
Note: A very limited topic proposal, thus the scope should be more broad or refined
Re: What's With All These Kinky, Pagan Bisexuals?
I look at life statistically. I find it curious that with over 3,000 world religions, the vast majority of religious folk choose the SAME RELIGION as their parents. In other words, they did no personal exploration of what may be the most important choice of their lives. They also choose the same sexuality - or at more like deny their own sexuality because of parent's on denial of theirs.
I've been many religions. Just like most of us need a few mates or a few cars to choose what's best for us; gaining a broad understand helps make an informed choice. Yet, again, most religious people are the SAME religion they chose (that was chose FOR THEM) at 9 or 10 when they were baptised. They gave more thought into selecting their pet's hair colour than their religion.
After exploring options, Wicca was the obvious choice for me. Had I stuck with the religion chosen for me by my parents I would still be frustrated with the control and narrow-minded leadership where its OK to molest children, but not OK to choose your own adult partner.
I was shocked when the Church Leader made the public statement (paraphrased) "It's NOT ACCEPTABLE to MOLEST CHILDREN".. Gee now THERE is a REVELATION! Their faithful had to be TOLD THAT?? I think I want a religion where the members can think for themselves, and don't have to be told things like this before they believe them?
Afterall The Goddess DID give us a brain- I presume she wanted us to USE IT?
Last edited by spydox; Mar 29, 2008 at 7:45 AM.
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